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grreat fight...the battle between the two underdog apprentice's...both vader wannabe's who takes it?? before i wouldve said count because of his power with the force but now IMO maul would own count dooku...that fool has got some crazyass moves with that dualsaber of his and he's practiced and i think (if im not mistaken) mastered the art of juyo which combines the most unpredictable moves for ur opponent which only him and mace windu and two other jedi have mastered and combining that with his agility and martial arts skils with the dual saber i think darth maul would tear up count dooku what yal think?

Are you kidding?

Count Dooku is far superior, not only with his great knowledge in the ways of the Force, but also his skill with a lightsaber. He is arguably the greatest swordsman of his time (though I believe he's below only Yoda and Sidious...).

I think Maul is being overrated here. He was a great duelist and was able to take on a Jedi Master and his padawan at once and should have won. Had he lived and had more years under his belt he would have been an tour de force to deal with but he didn't. So Maul as is can't fight against the Count.

w/e i dont kno much about star wars n yall probably do, but thats just my opinion..and still though, darth maul will always be way cooler than count:P

no, the count is cooler and wins

Originally posted by newjak86
I think Maul is being overrated here. He was a great duelist and was able to take on a Jedi Master and his padawan at once and should have won. Had he lived and had more years under his belt he would have been an tour de force to deal with but he didn't. So Maul as is can't fight against the Count.

Overrated???

Dooku would win, but you're comparing someone of around 80 years training (under Yoda AND Sidious) and experience to someone with around 20+. If Maul had survived and lived through to Episode's 2 and 3, he'd of been even more powerful with another 10 years training under Sidious and it would be a much closer fight.

Maul would have become more powerful than Dooku but he died before he reached his peak. His skill with a saber was great but nothing that special and he was quite average skilled in terms of force powers. He was only about 25 when he died and would probably become as powerful as Sidious. Dooku on the other hand was extremely strong with the force and very skilled with a saber. He was the strongest in his time apart from Windu, Yoda and Sidious.

Well, Count Dooku managed to defeat ROTS Obi-Wan - who is superior to TPM Obi-Wan - without much difficulty. Bearing that in mind, Maul had a hard time with TPM Obi-Wan, though the padawan was undeniably weaker than he was.

All in all, this goes to the Count. Now I'd say that Maul fairs a sporting chance and could last a few minutes, being quicker and stronger than Dooku himself. But the Count's experience and Force powers would be enough to give him the edge.

After a 2-3 minute duel, I'd say Dooku has this.

It would probably only take half a minute. I don't think Maul would be able to block his lightning. Dooku would definitely own Maul at the level he was when he died but Maul at his peak would take Dooku.

It doesn't take much to hold off Count Dooku's lightning. Just put the saber between you and it and viola (!) No problemo.

It's not that simple. The lightning moves incredibly fast and is extremely hard to block (it requires a lot of strength to block).

In my opinion Maul was the best apprentice Sidious could have had. He was eventually loyal, evil, full of hate, strong, young and had great potential.

Originally posted by kingkman
It's not that simple. The lightning moves incredibly fast and is extremely hard to block (it requires a lot of strength to block).

Obi-Wan did it with perpetual ease. Granted, it requires quick reflexes - but few people this side of Coleman Trebor don't lack it. Maul is stronger still than ROTS Obi-Wan and is still quicker. He'd be able to do it, I'm afraid.

Maul had trouble dealing with two Jedi and Dooku toyed with two Jedi and still had time to duel Yoda. It's clear that Maul wouldn't defeat ATOC Obi-Wan since he had trouble with him when he was a Padawan and Dooku pwned him without trying even in ROTS when Obi-Wan was a Jedi Master.

First of all I said probably, which is true as Maul was not that strong in the force in TPM and he is definitely not better than Obi Won in ROTS. Plus it is likely he was never trained by Sidious on how to do so as he was a sith lord and it wasn't as if a jedi was going to use it on him.

And secondly when i said, "It's not that simple. The lightning moves incredibly fast and is extremely hard to block (it requires a lot of strength to block)," it was in reply to when you said that it is quite simple to block lightning.

And thirdly it's voila, not viola.

Originally posted by Shadow x 20
Maul had trouble dealing with two Jedi and Dooku toyed with two Jedi and still had time to duel Yoda. It's clear that Maul wouldn't defeat ATOC Obi-Wan since he had trouble with him when he was a Padawan and Dooku pwned him without trying even in ROTS when Obi-Wan was a Jedi Master.

Maul would actually probably take AOTC Obi Won though he would lose to ROTS Obi Won.

How can you be so sure that Maul would be better than Dooku at his prime? From what we know, Dooku could have been better than him at that age. Dooku has performed better force power (he seems to have a much higher potential than Maul will ever have) and better swordsman ship (has a better lightsaber style).

Originally posted by kamikz
How can you be so sure that Maul would be better than Dooku at his prime? From what we know, Dooku could have been better than him at that age. Dooku has performed better force power (he seems to have a much higher potential than Maul will ever have) and better swordsman ship (has a better lightsaber style).

Maul was only around 25 when he died. He had many years ahead of him for training and gaining experience. When Maul died he had just before actually completely outclassed Qui Gon and Obi Won and was unlucky to lose. He had the full package. He was fast and agile, strong, proficient with many forms of the saber and for his age relatively strong in the force.

Count Dooku had clearly reached his peak by AOTC. He would have lost to Yoda if he had not ran away and Maul would have probably been able to defeat Anakin and Obi Won just like Dooku.

If Maul had reached his peak he would have had much more experience under his belt, would have mastered his lightsaber forms and therefor be a much better swordsman (he would have probably learnt more forms from Sidious as-well), would have grown extremely strong in the force (probably surpassing Sidious and not far behind Yoda) and his force lightning would have been incredibly strong aswell (as he would have started learning the ability of force lightning at a much younger age than Dooku and would have had loads of time to master it (probably stronger than Sidious')), he would have also become much stronger and more agile as-well. Due to the fact that Vader was destined to destroy the Sith, Maul would have been Sidious' most powerful weapon.

Originally posted by kingkman
First of all I said probably, which is true as Maul was not that strong in the force in TPM and he is definitely not better than Obi Won in ROTS. Plus it is likely he was never trained by Sidious on how to do so as he was a sith lord and it wasn't as if a jedi was going to use it on him.

And secondly when i said, "It's not that simple. The lightning moves incredibly fast and is extremely hard to block (it requires a lot of strength to block)," it was in reply to when you said that it is quite simple to block lightning.

And thirdly it's voila, not viola.

Firstly, I never said he was stronger in the Force (if you're addressing me).

Secondly, still, Maul could do it.

Thirdly, capitalize your I's.

Originally posted by kingkman
Maul was only around 25 when he died. He had many years ahead of him for training and gaining experience. When Maul died he had just before actually completely outclassed Qui Gon and Obi Won and was unlucky to lose. He had the full package. He was fast and agile, strong, proficient with many forms of the saber and for his age relatively strong in the force.

Count Dooku had clearly reached his peak by AOTC. He would have lost to Yoda if he had not ran away and Maul would have probably been able to defeat Anakin and Obi Won just like Dooku.

If Maul had reached his peak he would have had much more experience under his belt, would have mastered his lightsaber forms and therefor be a much better swordsman (he would have probably learnt more forms from Sidious as-well), would have grown extremely strong in the force (probably surpassing Sidious and not far behind Yoda) and his force lightning would have been incredibly strong aswell (as he would have started learning the ability of force lightning at a much younger age than Dooku and would have had loads of time to master it (probably stronger than Sidious')), he would have also become much stronger and more agile as-well. Due to the fact that Vader was destined to destroy the Sith, Maul would have been Sidious' most powerful weapon. Maul had a life full of training but so did everybody else. The fast, agile, strength arguments don't count in the universe of Star Wars. Just look at Yoda if you don't agree.

All your other points are biased rubbish and irrelevent.
Just see Maul as a strong knight and Dooku as master of a duelling style. There is no way Maul could win this if you were already implying that.

Jar Jar Binks is probably the character that you most resemble overlord being that you are a complete retard.

Originally posted by kingkman
Jar Jar Binks is probably the character that you most resemble overlord being that you are a complete retard. Your illiterate and retarded attempts at insulting people who don't agree will not change facts.

You are probably nine years old. Go outside and ride your bicycle.

Originally posted by overlord
Maul had a life full of training but so did everybody else. The fast, agile, strength arguments don't count in the universe of Star Wars. Just look at Yoda if you don't agree.

All your other points are biased rubbish and irrelevent.
Just see Maul as a strong knight and Dooku as master of a duelling style. There is no way Maul could win this if you were already implying that.

I was saying that Maul at his peak would be able to defeat Dooku so I think that goes to show my points are relevant you idiot. And how do the fast, agile, strength arguments not count in the Star Wars universe. I cannot even bother explaining something so simple to someone with the amount of intelligence you have.

Oh now i'm 9 years old. Coming from the person who put "playing chess with Plo Koon" under his location.

Originally posted by overlord
Your illiterate and retarded attempts at insulting people who don't agree will not change facts.

You are probably nine years old. Go outside and ride your bicycle.

I'm not insulting you because you don't agree with me. I didn't insult Escape or Kamitz and they didn't agree with me. I insulted you because you are a retard

Dude you see saying that Maul at his peak would beat Dooku is retarded. We do not know what Maul would be like at his peak and since his life was cut short his peak is in TPM.

Originally posted by kingkman
I was saying that Maul at his peak would be able to defeat Dooku so I think that goes to show my points are relevant you idiot. And how do the fast, agile, strength arguments not count in the Star Wars universe. I cannot even bother explaining something so simple to someone with the amount of intelligence you have. Read my last comment, your feeble attempts at insulting me won't make you right.

Look at Yoda who is supposed to be dead but fights more agile and fast Maul could ever hope of. Dooku's knowledge of defense and offense are way out of Maul's league.

And if you meant that Maul at some peak would be the absolute shit it would be irrelevant to the thread, but I doubt his force potential would already be impressive. But you didn't have to get angry because I didn't say "if you were already implying that" at the end of my post for nothing.

Be more observant before you launch into paranoia like a rocket.

Originally posted by Shadow x 20
Dude you see saying that Maul at his peak would beat Dooku is retarded. We do not know what Maul would be like at his peak and since his life was cut short his peak is in TPM.

I said peak if he had not died. Why do you think it is retarded. Is it because i have an opinion on the subject. It may be an assumption but it is an accurate one. Don't start an argument that you know you can't win.

Originally posted by overlord
Read my last comment, your feeble attempts at insulting me won't make you right.

Look at Yoda who is supposed to be dead but fights more agile and fast Maul could ever hope of. Dooku's knowledge of defense and offense are way out of Maul's league.

And if you meant that Maul at some peak would be the absolute shit it would be irrelevant to the thread, but I doubt his force potential would already be impressive. But you didn't have to get angry because I didn't say "if you were already implying that" at the end of my post for nothing.

Be more observant before you launch into paranoia like a rocket.

Dude can you speak clearer i can't understand you. You know you and SuperShadow are very much alike. You're both full of crap. Yoda is only fast due to augmenting his speed with the force. It wastes a lot of Force energy and Yoda is not naturally fast but the force enables him to be. Nobody relies on the force as much as Yoda does. Maul's full potential is not that relevant. I know that. I only said one thing about it and then you all started arguing against it.

Originally posted by kingkman
I said peak if he had not died. Why do you think it is retarded. Is it because i have an opinion on the subject. It may be an assumption but it is an accurate one. Don't start an argument that you know you can't win. Yeah and I said "if you were already implying that" because in case you weren't then I would have only responded to the thread in question so hold on your horses paranoid android.Originally posted by kingkman
Oh now i'm 9 years old. Coming from the person who put "playing chess with Plo Koon" under his location. Hahaha, you think I mean that seriously?Originally posted by kingkman
I'm not insulting you because you don't agree with me. I didn't insult Escape or Kamitz and they didn't agree with me. I insulted you because you are a retard Don't make up excuses if you know you are wrong. Be a man and face reality.
And saying I am a retard while you see everything as a big insult is pretty hypocrite.

Originally posted by kingkman
Dude can you speak clearer i can't understand you. You know you and SuperShadow are very much alike. You're both full of crap. Yoda is only fast due to augmenting his speed with the force. It wastes a lot of Force energy and Yoda is not naturally fast but the force enables him to be. Nobody relies on the force as much as Yoda does. Maul's full potential is not that relevant. I know that. I only said one thing about it and then you all started arguing against it. If you keep trying to insult me and are not able to argue in a forum then I suggest you log off immediately.

I have already won that argument because you are assuming what Maul would be like. You can only go based on what you know.

Maul loses. There's nothing to indicate he can win.

PS: Overlord, it's you're illiterate. You see, 'you're' is a contraction for you are. Lmao.

No you haven't because you are assuming that Maul would not become stronger than Dooku. For the record I said that Dooku would own Maul from TPM.

Originally posted by Escape81
Maul loses. There's nothing to indicate he can win.

PS: Overlord, it's you're illiterate. You see, 'you're' is a contraction for you are. Lmao. Wow, you've finally won. Go celebrate.Originally posted by kingkman
No you haven't because you are assuming that Maul would not become stronger than Dooku. For the record I said that Dooku would own Maul from TPM. That's good. Thread + problem solved.

Look Overlord listening to you argue is like watching a crippled man run the marathon.

I never said that. Maul was killed and thus you can only go on by TPM for that's when Maul was at his best. Maul showed no signs of being powerful in the force.
He killed Qui-Gon with his skills in a lightsaber, not the force.
He used the force to push Obi-Wan into the hole and force push is a basic move for Jedi/Sith. That's basically all we seen him do.

You are so dumb I said what Maul would be like at full potential.

Originally posted by kingkman
Look Overlord listening to you argue is like watching a crippled man run the marathon. If you want to chat around, go to the OTF.

Originally posted by kingkman
Look Overlord listening to you argue is like watching a crippled man run the marathon.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Awww.. You guys hold an internet grudge with me.. I feel flattered.

The Count owns

Is this one up for debate? Dooku would tool Maul so badly his own ugly mother wouldn't recognize him.

Yeah, what about with sabers only, at least this is closer.

No, it isn't. Dooku is the only living master of Form II. Maul can't compare to his precision and skill.

Yeah, with a saber Dooku is equal or greater to Mace Windu...Maul has no chance.

And coulda, woulda, shoulda....Maul died thanks to his own inpetitude.

Originally posted by Blind Guardian
No, it isn't. Dooku is the only living master of Form II. Maul can't compare to his precision and skill.

dude, maul is almost a master and very skilled in form VII, the most complex fighting art of the jedi ever with unpredictable moves to easily take down opponents...thats y he was able to beat a jedi master, qui gon....only 3 have mastered it and 2 turned to the darkside..and that combined with his martial arts prowess, physical strength, and dual blade, i think he would put up a good fight, if not win against count..but true, like yall said, he lacks experience

Form II tends to trump form VII...especially an incomplete Form VII

no it doesnt, but an incomplete one it would probably be even

It's incomplete. How the hell is it going to trump an ancient art centered around dueling?

Especially when Dooku knows a helluva lot about that complete form from Mace and Bulq

w/e dooku still wouldnt be able to practice or learn from VII its too complex

He doesn't need to, he bests it well enough

Omg. Use the search engine.


As for the battle, Maul's good but not as good as Dooku, who competed with Yoda.

i did^ and nothing came up

Originally posted by braz
i did^ and nothing came up

Jee, I wonder what these are, then:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344316&highlight=Maul+vs+Dooku

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=337066&highlight=Maul+vs+Dooku

wtf^ none of those came up on the first page when i typed it in i swear

Try typing it in right then.

I've been thinking. Now, I don't think Maul'd win but this actually might be close. I mean, he only lost to Obi-Wan by coincidence. In Shadow Hunter he beats Anoon Bondara, who's supposed to be the best Jedi with a blade (thgis is just before TPM), he nearly kills Sidious and it says in Star Wars Chronicles The Prequels that his saber skills are second only to Sidious's while the TPM visual dictionary says his saber skills are even better than Sidious's. Now putting these things together I think pretty much all of us here underestimate Maul. While I'm not changing by answer, Dooku'd win, it may actually be close.

Pfft. Dooku managed to take out Obi-Wan in twenty or so seconds while defending himself against Anakin's onslaught at the same time. The same Kenobi that held his own against Maul as a Padawan learner.

Maul's not bad, but he's no Dooku, in either saber skills or Force ability.

Agreed...most people Dooku'd slaughter rather effortlessly

Agreed

Dooku...

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Pfft. Dooku managed to take out Obi-Wan in twenty or so seconds while defending himself against Anakin's onslaught at the same time. The same Kenobi that held his own against Maul as a Padawan learner.

Yeah, but fighting alongside a crazed knight on a starship isn't really a very good place to utilize Soresu. And Obi-Wanb nearly held his own against Maul in TPM when using Force Rage.


I say Dooku wins but doesn't pwn.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I've been thinking. Now, I don't think Maul'd win but this actually might be close. I mean, he only lost to Obi-Wan by coincidence. In Shadow Hunter he beats Anoon Bondara, who's supposed to be the best Jedi with a blade (thgis is just before TPM), he nearly kills Sidious and it says in Star Wars Chronicles The Prequels that his saber skills are second only to Sidious's while the TPM visual dictionary says his saber skills are even better than Sidious's. Now putting these things together I think pretty much all of us here underestimate Maul. While I'm not changing by answer, Dooku'd win, it may actually be close.

true, maul's skills with a blade are def impeccable....and the only reason obi beat him as a padawan was cuz he attacked him without warning....just hopped up, grabbed qui gons saber(which maul prolly forgot was there, or else he would've kicked it down the hole also) with the force and cut him n half....mauls no pushover and thats the reason i made this thread....but true, dooku would probably win, cuz i havent even seen episode 2 but he wouldnt pwn him in like 10 seconds though

Originally posted by darthsith19
Yeah, but fighting alongside a crazed knight on a starship isn't really a very good place to utilize Soresu. And Obi-Wanb nearly held his own against Maul in TPM when using Force Rage.


I say Dooku wins but doesn't pwn. Obi Wan used force rage.. You just made that up, didn't you?
Obi Wan owned Maul, Maul would be stepped on by Dooku.

Braz, are you implying Obi should have given Maul fair warning? This is a duel to the death, you're supposed to attack without warning

Originally posted by overlord
Obi Wan used force rage.. You just made that up, didn't you?
Obi Wan owned Maul, Maul would be stepped on by Dooku.
Nope, didn't make it up. Owned? Yeah, he caught him by surprise but even when using Force rage Obi-Wan wasn't quite as good as Maul. Without it and had Qui-Gon not been there he'd have been dead in no time.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Braz, are you implying Obi should have given Maul fair warning? This is a duel to the death, you're supposed to attack without warning

lol no i dont think he should've given him fair warning.....im just saying if the duel would've kept going where they both had their lightsabers(maul had his dualsaber as one, and obi had his blue saber), maul would've probably won....but, that doesnt matter...could've, would've, should've, DIDNT thats just the way it turned out

Originally posted by darthsith19
Nope, didn't make it up. Owned? Yeah, he caught him by surprise but even when using Force rage Obi-Wan wasn't quite as good as Maul. Without it and had Qui-Gon not been there he'd have been dead in no time. Force rage in never implied anywhere, except for the games and KMC.

Dooku, hands down.

I think even Yoda admitted that Windu would probably be the only Jedi alive that could go toe to toe with the Count and it be an even saber fight without force. On that ground (and if I'm right about him saying that only Windu could...he could of ment both him and Windu. I don't know =P) Count would beat Maul without force powers or anything. With force powers......the count would still win. Maul was more of a fighter than a force user from what I see. The Count could do both, very well.

Either way, his saber skills > Mauls saber skills.

His force mastery > Mauls force mastery

His experience > Mauls experience**

He would win.

Now all this talk about Maul at his peek.....Maul didn't die in TPM he fell down the shaft and managed to live. He survived Naboo and got off world and had cybernetic legs attachted to him. (blah blah blah) He went to kill Luke since he heard it was Skywalkers son on Tattooine but Obi-wan was protecting him and finished him off there.....Hence why Owen didn't want him around there. Read that in a Graphic Novel. So if Obi-wan could take him than......than Count could take him without a doubt.

Not to metion that Sidious would of replaced Maul with the Count soon after so Maul would never get to his peak. Sidious had Dooku as an apprentice while Maul was still alive. The only two rule.....he broke. I don't think he cared about the rule and besides, it was more of a guideline anyway...=P

Even if you don't take the graphic novel and just go by movies. Count > Maul.

I like Maul. He was a marauder and I always like Jedi who focused more on physical combat than force mastery. =P

That Visionaries story was an Infinities...a parallel thing, NOT in continuity.

Intelligence and mindset are a big part of fighting. Maul failed in both of them.

and the winner is.... dun dun dun dun!!!! DOOKU

Vader barely beat Maul(clone). Anakin(ROTS) whooped Dooku. Need I say more?

Originally posted by six6six
Vader barely beat Maul(clone). Anakin(ROTS) whooped Dooku. Need I say more? The Maul clone is not TPM Maul. Vader is not RotS Anakin.

Originally posted by six6six
Vader barely beat Maul(clone). Anakin(ROTS) whooped Dooku. Need I say more? Damn. Why didn't I ever think of that?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The Maul clone is not TPM Maul. Vader is not RotS Anakin.

What makes clone Maul better then the real deal? And are you saying that ROTS Anakin is stronger then Vader?

Honestly, I think CD would win, I'm just saying, for the sake of argument.

Originally posted by six6six
What makes clone Maul better then the real deal?We don't know anything about clone Maul, so we can't draw any reasonable conclusions about his skill relative to TPM Maul. Ergo, your comparison was meaningless.

He's easily a more dangerous swordsman.

Originally posted by Eminence
We don't know anything about clone Maul, so we can't draw any reasonable conclusions about his skill relative to TPM Maul. Ergo, your comparison was meaningless.

Not necessarily. If he's a "clone" he should have all the skills of the real Maul, if not weaker. Like all the clones of Jango, none was shown to exceeed him.

Originally posted by six6six
Not necessarily. If he's a "clone" he should have all the skills of the real Maul, if not weaker....? Cloning replicates characteristics dependent on genetics. Skills aren't genetic.

They're soldiers, he's a Mandalorian bounty hunter.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Necromancy. Leave him alone.


No RN, it's better to add something to the original thread then to make a new one.

Wrong thread, much?

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Wrong thread, much?

Not at all.

Also, I'll thank you not to misquote me!

You figured that out already ?

NO!

...Wait.

YES!

Maybe if Maul had lived, he'd grow strong enough to kill Tyranus. Maul was still an apprentice when he took on a Jedi+apprentice at the same time and ended up killing Qui-Gon, who was one of the best with a lightsaber. Dooku had done the same to Anakin & OB1, yes, but again, Tyranus had already been a master for sometime. So to answer the thread, IMO, as we seen them, Dooku FTW, but if Maul had lived, I think he'd eventually surpass Dooku.

its a tie. They both staab eachother at the same time.

Dooku doesn't stab people like Maul does, he cuts off limbs.

And it's 'they stab eachother at the same time', the word 'both' is just a waste of space.

Originally posted by six6six
Maybe if Maul had lived, he'd grow strong enough to kill Tyranus. Maul was still an apprentice when he took on a Jedi+apprentice at the same time and ended up killing Qui-Gon, who was one of the best with a lightsaber. Dooku had done the same to Anakin & OB1, yes, but again, Tyranus had already been a master for sometime. So to answer the thread, IMO, as we seen them, Dooku FTW, but if Maul had lived, I think he'd eventually surpass Dooku.

Maul was a "warrior in his prime" according to TPM novel. So He culdnt have improved in that respect.. Although he could have vastly improved his mastery of the force..

Intersting clash of fighting styles (Maul w/ Juyo and his double bladed saber, Dooku w/ Makashi and his curved-hilt saber). Dooku is simply too refined in his saber technique for Maul to overcome. Dooku takes this one.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Although he could have vastly improved his mastery of the force..

Speculation. Even so, if he did improve on his ability to harness the force, he would still be far short of Dooku in that respect.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Speculation. Even so, if he did improve on his ability to harness the force, he would still be far short of Dooku in that respect.

Now that is speculation.

Dooku in a good fight. I'd say 7-8/10 Dooku win. He's way more refined and has the feats to prove it.

bump

Canon, not so sure at this point - Dooku might have the edge with lightning

Legends, Dooku wins.

Dooku, yeah.

Lord Tyranus wins

Dooku stomps

compare their performances vs Grievous or Kenobi and you'll have your answer. And yes, that includes taking consideration of context aside from Maul's legs or Dooku having a stylistic edge.

Originally posted by twotter
Canon, not so sure at this point - Dooku might have the edge with lightning

Legends, Dooku wins.

I am assuming this is sod maul, rebels maul vs Dooku is actually debatable though the argument for Dooku is naturally going to be a much solidified one due to the abundance of feats and forward scaling he gets.

Originally posted by twotter
Canon, not so sure at this point - Dooku might have the edge with lightning

Legends, Dooku wins.

Maul wins against Canon Dooku.

Maul loses to Legends Dooku.

maul loses to both

Dooku in both to varying degrees.

Canon Dooku wins 7/10 in a gruesome match.

Legends Dooku wins 10/10 in a difficult match.

Legends, Dooku hands down. Better swordsman, way better with the Force.

Canon, I've seen it suggested that canon Maul is actually higher up on the totem pole for lightsaber skill than Dooku (I believe it was in "Absolutely Everything You Need To Know"?). Even with that in mind, I wouldn't put the two that far apart in terms of raw skill, and I'd argue Dooku is still more refined than Maul. And of course, Dooku's mastery of the Force compared to Maul can't be contested. Maul never manifested lightning in Legends or Canon, Dooku has. How much of an advantage Dooku's edge in the Force would give him is tough to determine, but I'd definitely say Dooku gains the overall edge. Something like 6-7/10.

So, Ben Kenobi has stomped a Rebels Vader tier threat, who during his weakest incarnation (TPM) is canonically greater than Dooku as a lightsaber duelist.

In other words, he went from stonewalling Dooku in ROTS to stomping a far greater duelist than Dooku in Rebels.

Disney Canon is wonderful.

The most ridiculous argument for Dooku, is that he's "more refined than Maul." How exactly?!

Sidious trained Maul to literal perfection.

Canon portrays Dooku as a graceful fighter, most effective against other tamed lightsaber forms/fighters. We see what happens when you put his elegant Makashi up against the ferocious and unpredictable fighting styles of Anakin and Vos. Maul is just as, if not more, savage as either of these two fighters.

Even Yoda ponders his own ability to defeat Darth Maul.

This is glorious, ngl.

Originally posted by AncientPower
So, Ben Kenobi has stomped a Rebels Vader tier threat, who during his weakest incarnation (TPM) is canonically greater than Dooku as a lightsaber duelist.

In other words, he went from stonewalling Dooku in ROTS to stomping a far greater duelist than Dooku in Rebels.

Disney Canon is wonderful.
Well, if you put SoD / TPM Maul as supreme, all makes sense.

Originally posted by Kurk
Canon portrays Dooku as a graceful fighter, most effective against other tamed lightsaber forms/fighters. We see what happens when you put his elegant Makashi up against the ferocious and unpredictable fighting styles of Anakin and Vos. Maul is just as, if not more, savage as either of these two fighters.
Maul is at least as physically able as Vos, more refined, experienced and 'unpredictable'. Dooku gets pwned again

Originally posted by AncientPower
So, Ben Kenobi has stomped a Rebels Vader tier threat, who during his weakest incarnation (TPM) is canonically greater than Dooku as a lightsaber duelist.

In other words, he went from stonewalling Dooku in ROTS to stomping a far greater duelist than Dooku in Rebels.

Disney Canon is wonderful.
Yea, let's act like that would happen if it wasn't for a variety of in-universe and out-of-universe reasons

That moment when the old Ben accolades from DE have been laughed at for a decade and then Disney makes it canon.

Filoni's said Kenobi three-shotting Maul was because he thought every time Maul matched Kenobi's blade it suggests parity, but he didn't think there was any.

Rebels Kenobi is genuinely far beyond Maul (or Ahsoka).

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Filoni's said Kenobi three-shotting Maul was because he thought every time Maul matched Kenobi's blade it suggests parity, but he didn't think there was any.
Which proves that Maul =/ Kenobi, nothing more.

The three-shotting has already been explained by multiple separate reasons.

It should be obvious Kenobi isn't actually capable of three-shotting Maul in a typical sw duel.

Ant, does not equal does not equal

And it's funny how you're only willing to take this authorial intent into consideration, not what Gilroy said, not what Beck said, and not what Feloni has also said.

Keep cherrypicking bro.

Yeah, he is. That's inherently reflected in Dave's quote.

I don't even know what the two have said, but Filoni has never said Maul has grown.

You have admitted that you just want Maul to have grown to wank Ahsoka.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yeah, he is.


Yes, he's not equal to Kenobi?

Well, yea, that's obvious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuebj4kVOy4&t=1m09s

To address the last minute edit...

What the quote says
What Ant says:

There's a difference.

Let's change that:

Both an in universe and out of universe alternative to your claim that Ben Kenobi>>>>>>Rebels Maul.

Aside from your claim being unsupported, it's pretty illogical given that Rebels Vader isn't>>>Ahsoka who isn't>>>>Rebels Maul.

What Ant says:

What the quote says:



Which doesn't remotely invalidate my argument bro. Though I'd argue for Maul having grown even if Ahsoka didn't scale above him. Not because I especially like Maul, though he's one of my favorite villians, but because that's what the only evidence on the matter suggests.

I'm sure though you're being objective here, hence why you're making up sh!t that the evidence you're trying to use doesn't actually say.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuebj4kVOy4&t=1m09s
A fairly accurate portrayal of how your posts right now.

For the record though, Ahsoka doesn't need Rebels Maul tp be>SOD because she has closeness with Vader, a force user who's LOTS incarnation has done a better version of SOD Maul's best feats.

who said this? legitimately one of the most retarded things ive ever read

Originally posted by ChocolateMuesli
who said this? legitimately one of the most retarded things ive ever read
Feloni off course.

Regardless of how retarded or non retarded such a statement is, it's not saying this:

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
your claim that Ben Kenobi>>>>>>Rebels Maul.
http://68.media.tumblr.com/59e0439e4ef75b95c75d1cb4fbf22960/tumblr_inline_owqw4o44H51t245nm_500.jpg

When I said "far beyond," I didn't mean you holding down Shift and your "." key, lmfao.

That being said, I consider Old Ben on par with / better than Vader and Rebels Maul a tier 7 - do the math.

The gif would have been more effective if you had cropped the "your claim" bit, bro.

BTW, the cat in your gif is not trying to reach for the celing. I'd follow his example.

Edit: are these last minute edits some sort of divisionary tactic?

cringe

You're holding onto a lone wonderfully ambiguous quote like it's the only thing between you and eternal damnation.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
cringe

Is your face alright buddy?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You're holding onto a lone wonderfully ambiguous quote like it's the only thing between you and eternal damnation.
A very nice deflection.

Now are you going to address how the quote which says Kenobi is beyond Maul doesn't say Kenobi is "far beyond Maul"?

No, it pretty clearly states that. Filoni ended the fight quickly because he didn't think Maul was capable enough of contending with Obi-Wan.

In regards to the Filoni quote, frankly? I think he misspoke - he meant to say "character," not "characters," since we have him on-interview directly stating "Maul has not grown since TPM."

And in regards to your "combat not emotional growth BS," they're the same thing. They're both coordinated. You don't decline in one and not the other.

Filoni's alleged statement that Maul has grown as a swordsman is not reflected in the actual episode, hence the entire community's reaction to your retardation. We don't see Darth Maul apply a new maneuver vs Obi-Wan, which would be an indication of growth - he uses the same ****ing technique he used versus Qui-Gon, which Filoni has said hearkens back to the fact Maul has no grown.

And then we have Witwer stating multiple times that Maul has indeed declined, which makes perfect sense. Witwer's statements are legitimate because we know that Witwer and Filoni talked extensively about the behind-the-scenes of Maul's character going into this fight.

FWI, I don't plan to respond to whatever post you create - I'm going to bed.

You've debated this endlessly with Darth Thor, I don't think anyone will ever change your opinion on it, mostly because if you did change your opinion then you'd have to realize how retarded you've been for the past year of your existence.

But I'll pose this question, which I don't think DT has:

Do you actually believe that if you would go up to Filoni and ask him which incarnation of Darth Maul is the most skilled with a blade that he would answer with Rebels Maul? That he would pick an incarnation of Maul deliberately designed to be an older, deranged, out of prime version of Maul rather than the Maul in his twenties taking on two Jedi with Duel of the Fates in the background or the one ruling a planet of Boba Fetts and duking it out versus Sidious himself?

Don't answer, since obviously you'd say yes in public, but really consider the narrative Filoni is trying to present and answer to yourself if you believe you're being true to that vision.

Do I seriously have to do this with you again?

What you say:
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
he didn't think Maul was capable enough of contending with Obi-Wan.

What the quote says:


Do I actually have to explain to you the difference between contention and equality?

I'm aware you're a smart person, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're lying. :up
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In regards to the Filoni quote, frankly? I think he misspoke - he meant to say "character," not "characters,"

That backtrack tho.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
since we have him on-interview directly stating "Maul has not grown since TPM."

I wonder why you haven't posted more than 6 words from the quote...

Is it because what comes before and directly after makes clear that's referring to emotional growth?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Filoni's alleged statement that Maul has grown as a swordsman is not reflected in the actual episode, hence the entire community's reaction to your retardation. We don't see Darth Maul apply a new maneuver vs Obi-Wan, which would be an indication of growth - he uses the same ****ing technique he used versus Qui-Gon, which Filoni has said hearkens back to the fact Maul has no grown.

Again, Feloni says Maul hasn't grown emotionally. The contradiction you're looking for remains non-existent.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And then we have Witwer stating multiple times that Maul has indeed declined, which makes perfect sense.
You really don't like context, do you Ant:

As I stated earlier in this thread, I don't have any interest in re-explaining why your reorientation of quotes to say what you want them to say doesn't work over and over again.

If you want to keep discussing this, then bump this:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/kbroskywalker/blog/rebels-mauls-growth/131038/

Otherwise, let's stop deflecting away from how you're blatantly making sh!t up regarding what Feloni has said.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Filoni's said Kenobi three-shotting Maul was because he thought every time Maul matched Kenobi's blade it suggests parity, but he didn't think there was any.

Rebels Kenobi is genuinely far beyond Maul (or Ahsoka).
Logically speaking, why would Rebels Maul be a shadow of his former self?

Isn't his potential in the force in SW just second to only the Skywalkers themselves? Sidious obviously would have chosen an apprentice with a greater potential than him.

As the user rockydonovang has said, he was consistently active and a thorn in the Empire's side, to the extent that they would call him the "Shadow". He has also been seeking Sith artifacts and resources of knowledge and has easily demonstrated greater knowledge of the force on Dathomir in demonstrating Nightsister rituals. He is powerful enough to utterly fodderize the Inquisitors, and they have raised a mountain sized temple from the ground.

Whereas Ben Kenobi did nothing but sit on his ass all day long in the Tatooine desert. His potential is pretty much fodder level, his defining traits his resilience and endurance and his over-the-top dedication putting him above other "normal" Jedi, because of which he is even able to stand up to threats that should batter him to oblivion. How on earth did he grow?

And how did Maul even decline? Combatively, he was much more active.

I get that he emotionally declined after SoD, but it shouldn't make such a difference at all.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


You've debated this endlessly with Darth Thor, I don't think anyone will ever change your opinion on it, mostly because if you did change your opinion then you'd have to realize how retarded you've been for the past year of your existence.
This is rich coming from you bud, someone who can never admit he's wrong.

Instead, you resort to backtracking, acting like you don't care, throwing a tantrum, or resorting to gif's and links.

Keep it up kiddo.

Originally posted by BlueTiger1144

Whereas Ben Kenobi did nothing but sit on his ass all day long in the Tatooine desert. His potential is pretty much fodder level, his defining traits his resilience and endurance and his over-the-top dedication putting him above other "normal" Jedi, because of which he is even able to stand up to threats that should batter him to oblivion. How on earth did he grow?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang


What puts Kenobi's potential anything above fodder level? He basically relies on PIS to even stay alive.

Originally posted by BlueTiger1144
What puts Kenobi's potential anything above fodder level? He basically relies on PIS to even stay alive.

* Being the youngest member of the council prior to Anakin?


* Contending with and even getting the better off a superior version of one of the most skilled in history?


* Being noted by Windu as one of the most powerful member of the order in the order's prime, pre-prime?


* Being one of the best jedi of his day as a Padawan?

How is Kenobi not a prodigy?

Originally posted by BlueTiger1144
What puts Kenobi's potential anything above fodder level? He basically relies on PIS to even stay alive.
Well yeah he was an absolute PIS machine, but he still was a prodigy...

To pull a page from Ant's book...

(Argument's on the previous page)

Originally posted by AncientPower
Even Yoda ponders his own ability to defeat Darth Maul.

This is glorious, ngl.

Wait what?

Dooku stomps 10/10.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Dooku stomps 10/10.
Yup, Like he stomped pre-prime Savage. Oh wait...