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Darth Revan, Darth Bane and Darth Traya versus (Dark Empire) Darth Sidious, (Dark Empire) Luke Skywalker, Darth Tyranus, (Original Trilogy) Darth Vader and Darth Maul.

Revan is armed with two lightsabres and is wearing his robes.

Darth Bane is armed with a lightsabre and is not wearing his orbalisk armour.

Darth Traya has three lightsabres (for levitating) and one for fighting. She cannot use her insta-kill power.

Setting: The office of Palpatine

Who wins?

Gee hard one, I would say DE Sidious team. DE Sidious is probably the mightiest here, or mabey Bane I don't know. But Kreia will get a very good use for her 3 levitating lightsabers.

I think Dooku could hold up Revan for a while, DE Sids could battle Bane and Luke, Vader and Maul could take Traya. I think they can beat her lightsabers, she must consentrate while using them so I don't think she could have done anything else like force powers or use her lightsaber very good.

It all depends on Bane and DE Sids for me.

Vader and Maul could beat Traya!? She doesn't have to use her three lightsabres!

Oh and Luke and Sidious are on the same team!

I meant Luke, Vader and Maul go on Kreia. DE Sids go on Bane alone.

The line got a little messed up, "DE Sids can battle Bane and Luke, Vader and Maul battle Kreia". It was ment to be,
DE Sids go on Bane. Luke, Vader and Maul go on Kreia.

Good thread by the way.

Thank you.

Luke and Maul would take Kreia. DE Sidious and Vader would hold off Bane and Revan until Luke and Maul could help.

Luke and Maul can take Kreia? What are you smoking?

And anyways, this office is way too small for this fight. Sidious would fry everyone and himself just trying to use his Force Storm.

Sidious frys the hell out of the opposing team, rendering them immobile, while the rest of Sidiou's team uses force powers to beat Traya, Revan and Bane into a pulp.

DE Luke is very powerful.

I'd say Sidious team takes it cuz of numbers.Although Maul and Vader are pet food they would make a difference in this fight.

So is Kreia. She can pretty much destroy jedi masters like it's her job.

It's hard for me to imagine Kreia killing DE Sids or DE Luke.The problem is that we can't count on Revan.He would be busy with Luke for a long time(but would come out victorious(it's DE Luke, not NJO)) so Dooku takes on Kreia and Sids takes on Bane.Kreia and Bane would win but thats not counting Vader and Maul come into the fight and they could make a difference, in the end it's Sids and Vader vs. Revan(worn out).Since Revan worn out he would be killed easy(he would be killed by DE Sidious alone)

If DE Sidious team did it my way they could win without any casualties.

I thought your way was a joke, they would resist force storm easily end of story.

Originally posted by Dush khan Mabeo
I thought your way was a joke, they would resist force storm easily end of story.

The force storm could take out capital ships. You need to prove your statement.

They may not all be fried by it, but they would have to concentrate to prevent it from overwhelming them. In the mean time, Traya would be under attack from Tyranus lightning, Bane from whatever DE Luke wants to throw at him, and Revan under attack from debris and being choked from Maul and Vader. DE Sidious team walks away without injury.

Look how long it took ROTJ Sids to get Luke on the ground,I know DE Sids is mucn stronger but still...you can't expect Sidious to paralise them with one short electricution.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The force storm could take out capital ships. You need to prove your statement.

I already did.

When did you do that?

When you said that they would parry it easy?
When you said you don't "think" it's possibly?

Sorry for coming out so harsh but you havent proved it yet what I know of.

Originally posted by Dush khan Mabeo
Look how long it took ROTJ Sids to get Luke on the ground,I know DE Sids is mucn stronger but still...you can't expect Sidious to paralise them with one short electricution.

That just proved yourself wrong.

I think that the Bane team would parry the storm away, since Sidious' isn't anything special, cuz it took a long time to get ROTJ Luke to the groun, let alone stun these SW legends.I also said/typed that DE Sids is more powerful and that his storm would be stronger as well, but it still wouldn't be enough to paralise Revan, Kreia and Bane.

Originally posted by Dush khan Mabeo
I think that the Bane team would parry the storm away, since Sidious' isn't anything special, cuz it took a long time to get ROTJ Luke to the groun, let alone stun these SW legends.I also said/typed that DE Sids is more powerful and that his storm would be stronger as well, but it still wouldn't be enough to paralise Revan, Kreia and Bane.

"Wolud be"? You don't know anything about DE Sidious, huh?

Originally posted by mace=badass
That just proved yourself wrong.

How does it prove me wrong when it clearly means that that force power isn't strong enough to stun a human body shield like ROTJ Luke in a short period of time, thus proving that the far more powerful force users like these three would easyly be able to parry it.

OK,IS, are you happy now?!?!?!?!

How much do you really know about DE Sidious? It seems like all you know is ROTJ.

Dush do yourself a favour and leave this thread..

anyways, Bane, Revan and Kreia

against Vader and Maul... DE sidous, Dooku and Luke.

Anybody who thinks Vader and Maul would stand for more then a second is kidding him or herself. Kreia her force powers whether instakill or not could easily take them out in a second, she has done so with far more powerful Jedi Masters. Seriously. This will only take a second and will not leave her open for the fight as it can happen in the start.

And then its Bane vs Dooku - Bane wins
Revan vs Luke - Revan wins
DE Sidious vs Kreia - Both can win.

But Bane and Revan will join the fight and take out DE Sidious. Or Revan fights DE Sidious and Kreia takes Luke, but that will probably take a bit longer although Revan does have a bigger chance of winning against DE Sidious. Not to mention that Kreia and Revan would probably work better together then anybody else in this fight and thats a pretty nice advantage to have in a situation like this.

I know that he is a bodyless power that entered another one of his clones, and that he is far more powerful than other versions fo Sidious.Before Dark Empire he was learning from many holocrns both sith and jedi that he took during them purges from the jedi libraryz.I read Dark Empire 1 and 2 but not 3, I don't know that much about him but I do know the basics and that is quite enough sinc half of the people that visit this forum don't know anything about EU and just know the triologies so I think this odda be enough

... Apparently not...

Okay.

Well, this is over the moment DE Sidious creates a Force Storm. The only way Revan's team can win is if they take him out first. If not, they're screwed.

If by chance DE Sidious does die, then Revan, Traya, and Bane will be sufficient enough to take Luke, Dooku, Vader, and Maul after 3-5 minute duel.

Originally posted by Dush khan Mabeo
I think that the Bane team would parry the storm away, since Sidious' isn't anything special, cuz it took a long time to get ROTJ Luke to the groun, let alone stun these SW legends.I also said/typed that DE Sids is more powerful and that his storm would be stronger as well, but it still wouldn't be enough to paralise Revan, Kreia and Bane.

How would they parry it? It could destroy capitals, starships, how could they just block it? Because it just doesent fit in that he kills them with lightning?
He isent going to stun them, he is going to destroy them, they cannot parry his force storm.

Sids was toying with Luke until the end when he was trying to kill him but then Vader interrupted. Look at ROTS instead. He got Mace to have trouble while trying to deflect his lightning with his lightsaber, he made Yoda have trouble when trying to deflect it. And DE Sidious is tons better than ROTS.

Originally posted by Escape81
Okay.

Well, this is over the moment DE Sidious creates a Force Storm. The only way Revan's team can win is if they take him out first. If not, they're screwed.

If by chance DE Sidious does die, then Revan, Traya, and Bane will be sufficient enough to take Luke, Dooku, Vader, and Maul after 3-5 minute duel.

From all we know it will take him some time to prepare the storm up to a minute or so. He's not going to have that time. DE Sidious his awesome force storm will not be fired unless all the others are willing to sacrifise themselves for him. A possibility but even then Dooku and Luke do not have the power to keep the three heavy weights on the other side away from DE Sidious for that long. One attack is enough to kill somebody who can't defend himself.

And before you say anything Maul and Vader are dead in the first second. This fight would not be decided by a force storm.

But do they know about DE Sidious power? Do they know they have to hurry to him when there being held up by other fighters, they might not even notice. If they do know though, I agree, but really, how would they?

Well, Sidious could also just transport(or whatever it is that he does) Traya and Revan into space and then let Dooku, DE Luke, and Maul get some training in on killing Bane.

Sidious takes Revan
Luke and Tyrannus takes Traya
Maul and Vader hold off Bane until Sidious is done with Revan

No, Bane would cut down Maul and Vader with ease.

Erm, no he wouldn't.

Unless you think Bane is weaker then Dooku, I don't see how you would come to the proposition. Maul and Vader are arguably weaker then ROTS Obi-wan, who, even though Obi-wan is best at defence was pwned in 18 seconds.

You hit the nail on the head. I don't think Bane is all that much better than Dooku, if at all. The Count had mastered a form based on lightsaber manipulation and precise, localized blows. Bane, judging by his build and stance, uses either Djem So or Juyo.

Now, while Maul and Vader might not be able to coordinate themselves effectively, and thus, would possibly lose, the battle wouldn't be anything of a breeze. While Maul, with his ferocious offensive ability, engages Bane in a melee contest, Vader could stand back and toss in the occasional Force power, offering support from a range. And if things go bad for Maul, he can always switch to the defensive and let Vader take the ranged advantage.

To you, Glentract, it's either 'he pwns' or 'he gets pwned'. There's never any middle ground.

Well, I double-checked the number of Sith at Ruusan and there were in fact 20,000. Bane was the most powerful Sith out of 20,000. Keep in mind that these Sith were trained just for war; designed to fight smart. Bane was still the strongest. Being the strongest out of 20,000 battle hardened force users is impressive.

Bane got a lot stronger after that though. He then went to Nadds tomb and learned all that was in there and then got his suit. Everything seems to show that Bane is much stronger then Dooku.

Look at even Dooku though. Even with Anakin's help, Obi-wan, who is stronger then Maul, went down in 18 seconds. Without help Maul is going to go down faster, even if Vader provides force support.

Titanic Battle?

Darth Revan, Darth Bane and Darth Traya versus (Dark Empire) Darth Sidious, (Dark Empire) Luke Skywalker, Darth Tyranus, (Original Trilogy) Darth Vader and Darth Maul.

Revan's team definitely take this. Bane would be able to take Maul and Vader, Kreia would take Tyranus adn Revan would take Luke and Sidious.
Game over.

Originally posted by Fishy
From all we know it will take him some time to prepare the storm up to a minute or so. He's not going to have that time. DE Sidious his awesome force storm will not be fired unless all the others are willing to sacrifise themselves for him. A possibility but even then Dooku and Luke do not have the power to keep the three heavy weights on the other side away from DE Sidious for that long. One attack is enough to kill somebody who can't defend himself.

And before you say anything Maul and Vader are dead in the first second. This fight would not be decided by a force storm.

In one fight, DE Luke's power is combined with Anakin's Solo's latent Force attunement - and Leia's own - and he engages DE Sidious in a lightsaber duel, and manages to beat him in the end. Sidious then said:

"I'm done with these Jedi games" and makes a Force Storm in a few seconds, but they managed to escape by all three of them cutting him off from the Force temporarily.

Sorry, Fishy, but Sidious maybe needs thirty seconds at best to conjure a Force storm that can kill a few people standing in front of him. That Force Storm was conjured to take out the entire room, and that STILL didn't take long.

If DE Sidious gets a Force storm out, it's OVER.

So. We have DE Luke (who is extremely powerful as it is), combined with the Force attunement (not actual current power) of Leia and Anakin Solo (both of whom possess undeniable attunement to the Force) and is only just able to defeat DE Sidious in lightsaber combat.

So, from that instance - we know Sidious is a heavyweight in saber dueling, not unlike Revan. I don't see Revan owning Sidious at all, though there is a very good chance that he would win a duel, eventually.

Secondly, no one on Bane's team - not even Revan - has displayed the Force feats that Sidious has. A Force Storm can obliterate an entire fleet of ships, people, and - when Sidious wills it so - he can transport people into space, of which there is no survival (I don't think).

Dooku, Vader, Maul, and DE Luke are all sufficiently skilled to take on the other combatants for at least long enough for Sidious to prepare a quick Force Storm (which, as I said, only takes less than a minute). I am sorry, but, Revan can't cut down these four in thirty seconds. Not even with Bane or Kreia.

Not only that, but Sidious could simply - as Glentract said - put a few of them into space.

The fact of the matter is, the only possible way that Revan, Bane, or Kreia will survive this is if all three attack DE Sidious. If that happens, then Sidious's team is screwed. But if not, Sidious will beat them.

Agreed, except for the last part, no way that Revan, Bane and Traya are getting through Sidious' allies before he can muster up a force storm. All people on Revan's team (including Revan himself), are at an unknown power level. We can't say Revan is good just because we want him to be. We can't say Traya pwns because she seemed smart in Kotor 2. Bane was good, I hear, but why would he be any better than Vader, for instance?

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Agreed, except for the last part, no way that Revan, Bane and Traya are getting through Sidious' allies before he can muster up a force storm. All people on Revan's team (including Revan himself), are at an unknown power level. We can't say Revan is good just because we want him to be. We can't say Traya pwns because she seemed smart in Kotor 2. Bane was good, I hear, but why would he be any better than Vader, for instance?

We know Revan is stronger then Malak. We also know that Kreia is stronger then the Exile because she pwned him on Dantooine and he is immune to her instakill. She lost on purpose at Malachor V.

Bane was the most powerful Sith out of 20,000 war hardened guys and then got a lot stronger. He certainly outdoes Vader by a ton.

I firmly doubt he's stronger than Vader. Bane was known for his knowledge and wisdom, not his strength and power. And lost on purpose at Malachor? That'd defeat a lot of the purpose of her lesson. She gave her all and died.

Sidious's team takes this...we have Luke, who's power is....incredible. Sidious, the strongest Sith there is along with two rather decent Sith...

Are you going to try to argue against the movie canon? Vader sucks. I used to try to argue for him, but it's the truth. ROTJ Luke sucks to when put next to Bane or Revan.

Traya did lose on purpose. There is no other reasonable explanation for the Exile having become so powerful so fast. I also don't see how it would defeat her lesson.

Sidious is tough, but really, you haven't(or at least as far as I have seen, I'm still looking through that other thread escape made) shown him so be the strongest Sith of all time.

When is Vader ever shown to suck? The closest he gets to it is in ROTJ when he's clearly not fighting to his best against Luke-who, in rage, is supposed to be off the charts in power.

I'd think the Exile accessed his potential. He was already quite strong and Traya seemed to believe that unless he could match and beat her, he was a failure. She said it was him or her...and I doubt KReia'd go easy on him. She didn't seem the type.

As for Sidious, I'm getting to it. My point is, the continuity does have him on that plateau.

Vader's lightsaber skill in ROTJ is second rate. Also, Luke isn't off the charts in power even during his rage. A smart person could use it against him and destroy him.

It still doesn't make any sense that she could pwn him and then lose a day or so later.

If you would just give me the ship counts and types that were destroyed by Palpatine's force storm I could calculate the level of power necessary for that feat and compare it to some other "impresive" feats.

Luke got the massive drop on Vader there. I doubt anyone could face that onslaught and do much, especially when they're not trying to kill Luke.

Vader's only issue in ROTJ is not being computer animated.

As for ship counts, lesse...give me a bit to find Dark Empire and look through it? I don't really know these ships by sight though

Well what you'd know? Looks like little Lightsnake keeps running around spreading his fanboysism for all to see.

Glentract I still can't understand why your even bothering to argue with this moron.

Ragnos could have simply grabbed him with the force and held him still.

And the fact that he is slow. If GL wanted to redo him he could in a few months tops. He has the money to do whatever he wants to SW.

You can probably find a gallery of the star ships on google pretty easily.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I don't need them, or at least shouldn't. It will take me a while to calculate it though.

Originally posted by Veneficus
Well what you'd know? Looks like little Lightsnake keeps running around spreading his fanboysism for all to see.

Glentract I still can't understand why your even bothering to argue with this moron.

Calm down. I, like I though most Dark Tower regulars did, support free thinking. He's made tons of good points and you have no reason to call him a moron or anything like that. I'm not saying that I agree with him on his views, but no need to become uncivil.

You realize that for a grab, he'd have to lose his guard and risk reaching? That's suicidal. For that you'd have to concentrate and on a pissed off opponent...there's a reason a similar trick failed on Ulic Qel-Droma....and Ragnos was never known for his fighting ability.

Here's my main question now: What did Revan ever do to put himself near Sidious? Most anything is a gameplay mechanic

He defeated Malak at least twice in a row after fighting through the SF.

Malak wasn't exactly mr. Incredible...like I said, that's still gameplay coming into play....and as for the Star Forge, gameplay still, he could have been the support caster while Canderous and Juhani tore Malak's forces to ribbons.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
He defeated Malak at least twice in a row after fighting through the SF.

No reason to think defeating Malak is worth any praise, I mean c'mon hes a sissy.

It's worth noting that Malak's name is trashed in KOTOR 2....he's called a stupid brute, basically

It's worth noting that Malak killed two Jedi in less time then it took Sidious. Also note that these were the best Jedi in fleet as they were sent to try and kill Malak.

He's called a brute, but what do you think Luke in his force rage was? What about Vader before ep3? All brutes.

Yeah, but KOTOR 2 went out of its way to call Malak a stupid, innefective brute...and that really matches up well.

The two Jedi killed is a bit debateable there, as they were force choked. Vader's the king of SW force choking-hell, he choked a guy from miles away with no effort.

BTW, Glen, I really gotta get going....can you contact me on AIM sometimes so we can continue there rather than thread tedium? I'm enjoying this quite a bit

No problem. Whenever you can get on is fine with me.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
It's worth noting that Malak killed two Jedi in less time then it took Sidious. Also note that these were the best Jedi in fleet as they were sent to try and kill Malak.

He's called a brute, but what do you think Luke in his force rage was? What about Vader before ep3? All brutes.

Strongest in the fleet? Erm no...The idea was to send a quantity of jedi not quality or else Master Vandar, Vrook etc. would of gone. The two jedi that made it to Malak just happened to be one of the *lucky* ones to make it past star forge defenses.

There is reason to belive that Bane, Traya, and Revan are all powerful, just there is no evidense that says that they are rediculously so. They were some if not the strongest people in their era, but so was Sidious, Vader, Luke, and Yoda. Why would they be any more powerful then them?

Originally posted by jollyjim311
There is reason to belive that Bane, Traya, and Revan are all powerful, just there is no evidense that says that they are rediculously so. They were some if not the strongest people in their era, but so was Sidious, Vader, Luke, and Yoda. Why would they be any more powerful then them?

The fact that the feats they displayed were far more impressive. Traya curbstomped three Jedi Masters and zapped them from the force.

Revan didn't even fall to the darkside, he actually controlled it. He was a tactical genius and was able to convert thousands of Jedi to him, far more impressive than Sidious and Vader's purge, Revan converted them, he didn't kill them.

Bane was one of the strongest of the Sith of his time, he was in the highest echelon of a Sith Order that had been at war for a thousand years.

Originally posted by Darth Traya
The fact that the feats they displayed were far more impressive. Traya curbstomped three Jedi Masters and zapped them from the force.

Revan didn't even fall to the darkside, he actually controlled it. He was a tactical genius and was able to convert thousands of Jedi to him, far more impressive than Sidious and Vader's purge, Revan converted them, he didn't kill them.

Bane was one of the strongest of the Sith of his time, he was in the highest echelon of a Sith Order that had been at war for a thousand years.


Okay, but:

Sidious curbstomped 3 Jedi Masters with his lightsaber in the same amount of time.

I thought that he became Darth Revan. He was corrupted and brought corruption to the Jedi that followed him. Also, Bane had set the rule of 2, no way Vader and Sidious would recruit more, they had all that was needed, as where Revan didn't.

Sidious was the strongest out of the Sith that had been gaining power to get revenge on the Jedi for a thousand years.

Firstly, that's a terrible assumption. We have little or no information on the other Rule of Two Sith. Plus, if Sidious was so powerful, why did he kill Plageuous in his sleep? It kind of implies that Sidious was scared of Plageous, doesn't it?

There are always 3 Sith, no more, no less.- Yoda, I didn't quote it because I'm not sure if that is the exact quote.


Sith aren't supposed to be scared of anything. And there isn't much information on Plageous so we can't debate weather or not Sidious was scared of him. Maybe Sidious just decided that he could do a better job at being the Master then Plageous during the night time. He went to kill him and he happened to be sleeping. We don't know.

Sith kill their mentor when they have surpassed him, Sidious apperantly thought it would be easiest to kill the guy in his sleep but I reckon that Plageius was probably far too dangerous to take on as the databank suggests.

I don't dispute the power of DE Sidious, he ranks up there with Traya, Revan et cetera. But ROTS Sidious is fairly minor.

What you are going on is simply speculation using some feats that some authors or game designers decided to use, maybe they had a better imagination then lucas so it seems like those ancient characters can do so much. The power of characters all depends on the imaginations of their creators. if one author felt like it he could make a character that can kick marka ragnos's @SS like a rag doll, and blow up galaxies with his pinky. Think about it. oh i think that sids team can win, because anything is possible.

ROTS Sidious is nothing minor. He's already a master of the Darkside and on Yoda's tier. Traya did....what exactly? She cut three Jedi from the Force and they couldn't take it, big deal. Ulic survived that no problem. Tholme in the PT era disconnected himself from the Force and later on connected himself back with no problem. That was the Council's weakness

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
What you are going on is simply speculation using some feats that some authors or game designers decided to use, maybe they had a better imagination then lucas so it seems like those ancient characters can do so much. The power of characters all depends on the imaginations of their creators. if one author felt like it he could make a character that can kick marka ragnos's @SS like a rag doll, and blow up galaxies with his pinky. Think about it. oh i think that sids team can win, because anything is possible.

What a heap of bullshit! If that were true then I could declare Zett Jukassa to be more powerful than NJO Luke, because the NJO writers obviously had far more imagination...

Well think about it this way. Some people have been bringing up video game characters and comparing them with canon characters using their feats in the "game". well two can play that game. I could just as easily bring up the Revenge of The Sith Game which is also a game just like KOTR, and say that Anakin can kick Mace Windu's ass cause he did it in the game. Or Cin Drallig is stronger than Anakin cause he was able to overpower rots vader and only died because of a lucky shot from Anakin's lightsaber throw, or that Vader, suited and unsuited can use force lightning!!!. While i admit that its bullshit, it has about the same level of canon source as KOTR why? because their both games.

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
Well think about it this way. Some people have been bringing up video game characters and comparing them with canon characters using their feats in the "game". well two can play that game. I could just as easily bring up the Revenge of The Sith Game which is also a game just like KOTR, and say that Anakin can kick Mace Windu's ass cause he did it in the game. Or Cin Drallig is stronger than Anakin cause he was able to overpower rots vader and only died because of a lucky shot from Anakin's lightsaber throw, or that Vader, suited and unsuited can use force lightning!!!. While i admit that its bullshit, it has about the same level of canon source as KOTR why? because their both games.

It doesn't have the same level of Canon as KotOR. KotOR doesn't contradict the movies, where as the Episode Three game does.

Ergo, in terms of canon KotOR > EP3 game

oh ok....glad we cleared that up.

Yeah, KOTOR only contradicts other EU.

And? All if not most of those errors have been retconned, thus making your argument moot.

Tell it to the technology. And Nar Shadaa. And Vima Sunrider. And Master Thon. And Sylvar. And cortosis.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Tell it to the technology. And Nar Shadaa. And Vima Sunrider. And Master Thon. And Sylvar. And cortosis.

Give me a list of errors then.

Just did

No, direct things, like why is messes them up.

The technology....compare it to TOTJ...hell, the tech was still pretty bad until Darth Ruin's era compared to the PT. The ships in TOTJ looked far more primitive, as did Nar Shadaa

Vima Sunrider, Thon and the others...they were council members for a long time, should've still been alive....and they are where? They survived for a bit.