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cool fight tough decision

Its been done before.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=349724&highlight=Maul

dammit i did a search n nothing came up

In any case, Maul would beat the shit out of OT Luke.

Luke has a good chance. he goes ballistic on maul, maul loses his hand or his lightsaber breaks.

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
Luke has a good chance. he goes ballistic on maul, maul loses his hand or his lightsaber breaks.

No. ROTJ Luke has hardly any training and is fairly crap.

Maul has a shedload more training than him. Not only that, Luke has never seen a double lightsabre before. He'll probably die within a few seconds.

So what? neither did any of the PT jedi before TPM. Obi-wan and Qui-Gon never had to fight sith lords before, ok it was the first time a sith was seen in like a 1000 years. Experience?!? Luke beat Vader who had alot more experience. Experience doesnt always mean automatic victory. alot of factors involved. Worst Case Scenario he pulls an obi-wan on maul and eventually wins. Best Case Scenario he wins like he did with vader.

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
So what? neither did any of the PT jedi before TPM. Obi-wan and Qui-Gon never had to fight sith lords before, ok it was the first time a sith was seen in like a 1000 years. Experience?!? Luke beat Vader who had alot more experience. Experience doesnt always mean automatic victory. alot of factors involved. Worst Case Scenario he pulls an obi-wan on maul and eventually wins. Best Case Scenario he wins like he did with vader.

No, vader didn't even put up a fight. Luke is a lot weaker than TPM Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
So what? neither did any of the PT jedi before TPM. Obi-wan and Qui-Gon never had to fight sith lords before, ok it was the first time a sith was seen in like a 1000 years. Experience?!? Luke beat Vader who had alot more experience. Experience doesnt always mean automatic victory. alot of factors involved. Worst Case Scenario he pulls an obi-wan on maul and eventually wins. Best Case Scenario he wins like he did with vader.

lol plus, we all know that suited-up vader as we know him blows anway, he can barely even walk hes handicapped...he should be in the specail olympics for fencing or something

omg maul would beat the sheet out of Luke Asswalker lol

Originally posted by ubermench
omg maul would beat the sheet out of Luke Asswalker lol z0mG!!

ROTJ angry Luke is underestimated. He has the advantages of being the grandson of the Force'n all that....not to mention Maul's an idiot when it comes to simple things as finishing off the supposedly weak.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
ROTJ angry Luke is underestimated. He has the advantages of being the grandson of the Force'n all that....not to mention Maul's an idiot when it comes to simple things as finishing off the supposedly weak.

I figured you smarter then that... Prophecy bullshit..

Anyways Angry ROTJ Luke is something that lasted a few seconds swung his lightsaber from left to right in a wide arc like an idiot and for some reason managed to take down Vader.

ROTJ Luke normally is even worse, Vader could have taken him a dozen times in the fight but didn't, and he wasn't even trying then like he wasn't in ESB, until Luke got lucky and hit vader, half a second later Luke missed an arm. Maul would do so even faster, with a double bladed lightsaber and experience. Luke wouldn't know what to do, he just simply does not have the experience.

See, it's called 'fighting'. And without CGI it's called 'realism'.
If Maul's so great, how'd he get killed by a Padawan?
A. He didn't think
B. He was too arrogant
C. Both

Fatal flaws right there

Originally posted by Lightsnake
ROTJ angry Luke is underestimated. He has the advantages of being the grandson of the Force'n all that....not to mention Maul's an idiot when it comes to simple things as finishing off the supposedly weak.

Arrogant would've been the more precise word. Darth Maul's no fool. Although being cocky is apart of Zabraki heritage he was smart as hell. The Force just wasn't with him at that moment. And we all clearly know that the real version of Darth Maul would be too quick for that lame move Obi Wan pulled. Darth Maul is has near unnatural speed, instinctively, he's very fast and reacts quick as hell. Lucas just did that to kill him. When I watched Ep1 in the theatres in '99 people in the audience booed when Maul was killed (like that). Cause everyone knew there was no way.

Oh yea, and Lord Maul kills Luke in the same way he killed Jin, only just within 10 seconds of the fight.

Maul smart as hell? This is why Obi-wan's a stain somewhere.

And Maul'd be able to take advantage of Luke's old age and tire him easily thanks to the fact he's over sixty? Well, guess what: The 'Real' Darth Maul WAS too slow and stupid to react, whatever else anyone thinks is an image of him in their head. Not only that, Luke's hardly a pushover by ROTJ in the Force or the saber. He's been trained by Yoda who named him Jedi and he's able to choke someone with a gesture.

Why are we comparing a Sith Lord to a retarded farmboy? It's pretty much obvious that Darth Maul could make mincemeat out of ROTJ Luke Skywalker.

You mean the 'retarded farmboy' who turned Vader from the Dark Side and was trained by Yoda.

Nooooo negative bias, nope

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You mean the 'retarded farmboy' who turned Vader from the Dark Side and was trained by Yoda.

Nooooo negative bias, nope

No, Luke Skywalker was weaker than Vader.

Secondly, all the younglings are trained by Yoda. Does that make them pimp? No.

IF by 'trained' you mean 'given basic instruction' then....
Weaker than Vader or no, he certainly got the better of him there. Vader was stronger than Kenobi and we see how this went. I'm sure Yoda would give his last hope basic training and not actually fully educate him on the Force.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
IF by 'trained' you mean 'given basic instruction' then....
Weaker than Vader or no, he certainly got the better of him there. Vader was stronger than Kenobi and we see how this went. I'm sure Yoda would give his last hope basic training and not actually fully educate him on the Force.

Lets see:

When Luke goes into his rage attack, he basically charges at Vader swinging his sabre from left to right, like a madman. Vader does not take advantage of Luke's rage and feebly blocks him, whilst intentionally back peddling towards a nearby railing. Vader reaches the railing, quite deliberately falls over and then sits there, holding his sabre up quite weakly.

Luke then chops his hand off, gee anyone could do that.

Luke's victory is more a reflection on Vader's redemption rather than an actual fight.

Vader stronger than Kenobi!? WTF? Vader is less powerful in the Original Trilogy than he was as Anakin Skywalker in the PT. Not only that, did you miss the part where Obi-Wan turns off his lightsabre and lets vader hit him!?

You mean.....he fights realistically without CGI?!!?!?!

Yes....Yes, anyone could knock Vader to the ground and take his hand, just anyone.

Yeah, you miss the part where Obi-wan knows he can't beat Vader and would have if he could? And Anakin in ROTS was both stronger and a better duelist than Kenobi. Obi-wan, however, trained him and knows his moves and Anakin is fighting without a clear head due to Padme

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You mean.....he fights realistically without CGI?!!?!?!

Yes....Yes, anyone could knock Vader to the ground and take his hand, just anyone.

Yeah, you miss the part where Obi-wan knows he can't beat Vader and would have if he could? And Anakin in ROTS was both stronger and a better duelist than Kenobi. Obi-wan, however, trained him and knows his moves and Anakin is fighting without a clear head due to Padme

No, Anakin Skywalker is on par with Obi-Wan as a duelist.

Where on Earth does it show Obi-Wan being more scared? Not only that, Obi-Wan knows that Vader has to live to fulfill the prophecy.

Luke is very powerful much more than he was in ESB. Luke at this point was greater IMHO than Anakin when he faught dooku, he was able to stop himself from killing vader and going to the dark side something Anakin could never dream to do. And Luke was able to turn vader to the light side which was no easy thing to do. Then Luke grows up to be a the greatest badass jedi grandmaster the universe seen in a long long time. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people think so little of luke and vader who were both very powerful. Even YODA admitted that luke was powerful....very powerful.

Be careful, you use a lot of "IHMO"s and little evidence.

Luke was able to turn Vader to the light? Pah, Vader was never a true Sith Lord, he always had pangs of regrets. Couple that with his beloved son being tortured and calling out for help, Luke didn't do anything much apart from occassionaly screaming.

Yoda? Yoda says that yes, but he himself couldn't defeat the Emperor, little less an Emperor that had an extra twenty years of training and experience, how the **** is an apprentice going to beat him???

you got a point there, but still rank and experience is not everything, alot of other factors that win the fight: power, speed, wisdom, lightsaber skills, force powers, etc. Yoda had 900 years of experience while sids had less than about 100 years of experience. and yet Sids won that duel. So this means experience aint everything. Neither is rank there are some Knights who can defeat Jedi Masters. Anakin as a knight was far stronger than most of the jedi council.

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
you got a point there, but still rank and experience is not everything, alot of other factors that win the fight: power, speed, wisdom, lightsaber skills, force powers, etc. Yoda had 900 years of experience while sids had less than about 100 years of experience. and yet Sids won that duel. So this means experience aint everything. Neither is rank there are some Knights who can defeat Jedi Masters. Anakin as a knight was far stronger than most of the jedi council.

Yoda would have won that duel if it was on open ground, Palpatine was just intelligent enough to use the terrain to his advantage.

Power: Maul wins this one. He is physically stronger than Luke and as a Sith Lord has displayed far more adeptitude and knowledge of the force.

Speed: Maul takes this. Not only is Maul more agile, but his sabre will be able to suprise Luke.

Wisdom: Maul has trained under Sidious and had access to a plethora of Sith knowledge. Luke had some knowledge from Yoda and Ben, but not enough.

Lightsabre skills: Maul has far more finesse in combat than Luke and experience. Not only that, how can Luke compete with the double-sabre? Luke will be suprised when Maul attacks and will have little time to form a strategy. He's bad enough in conventional sabre combat.

Force Skills: Maul. Maul owns Luke in this department. Maul has far more powers in the force and has displayed far more adeptitude in it too.

-

My two cents. Maul pwns Luke.

Question about the force powers: Maul only displayed approx 1 force power: Push *that is actually canon* while luke displayed at least 6(cloak, choke, pull, jump, accuracy, rage, etc)

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
Question about the force powers: Maul only displayed approx 1 force power: Push *that is actually canon* while luke displayed at least 6(cloak, choke, pull, jump, accuracy, rage, etc)

This is an EU forum. Read Shadowhunter or some of the other comics.

And WTF!?

"cloak,choke,pull,jump,accuracy,rage,"

When did Luke make himself invisible?

Luke choked two Gamorreans,bid deal. Any Sith or Jedi (they could, but wouldn't) worth his salt could. Pull? So what? Any Jedi or Sith can do that! Jump? Any Jedi or Sith can do that, including Maul. Accuracy? To deflect bolts? Any jedi or Sith can do that.

Rage? No, that was called being a retarded ****.

You've basically told me that Luke can use some other techniques that younglings can use, bug deal.

ok fine

Luke cannot even hope to compare to a Sith Lord who could feasibly take down the OT Vader.

How many Sith or Jedi could choke two people with a mere gesture? Most need to clench their fist on the target....and in Shadowhunter, all Maul pulls off is a choke. Everything else is acrobatics. YOUNGLINGS can't take on Darth Vader or a horde of Ssi-Ruuk.

And Yoda'd have won if it was open ground....wow, nothing to support that statement.

And Anakin was superior to Obi-wan as a duelist.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How many Sith or Jedi could choke two people with a mere gesture? Most need to clench their fist on the target....and in Shadowhunter, all Maul pulls off is a choke. Everything else is acrobatics. YOUNGLINGS can't take on Darth Vader or a horde of Ssi-Ruuk.

And Yoda'd have won if it was open ground....wow, nothing to support that statement.

And Anakin was superior to Obi-wan as a duelist.

How do you know that? Where does it state that?

If anything, Windu recognises that Obi-Wan is better. Hence why he calls him "not a lightsabre master, the lightsabre master".

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How many Sith or Jedi could choke two people with a mere gesture? Most need to clench their fist on the target....and in Shadowhunter, all Maul pulls off is a choke. Everything else is acrobatics. YOUNGLINGS can't take on Darth Vader or a horde of Ssi-Ruuk.

And Yoda'd have won if it was open ground....wow, nothing to support that statement.

And Anakin was superior to Obi-wan as a duelist.

Yes, I do have evidence to support that.

He's referring to soresu.

Nick Gillard places Anakin on a higher tier than Obi-wan, that's for certain. Anakin slaughtered Dooku while Obi-wan was nearly killed against him.

His loss has to do with Padme

IF you have evidence, name it. Palp ran at the start? Yoda ran at the end. Palpatine got pushed? Yoda got fried into the wall. During the fight on level ground, it was purely equal

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He's referring to soresu.

Nick Gillard places Anakin on a higher tier than Obi-wan, that's for certain. Anakin slaughtered Dooku while Obi-wan was nearly killed against him.

His loss has to do with Padme

Dooku was faking, get over it.

Nick Gillard puts Sidious on a higher level than Windu, even though Windu was a superior lightsabre duelist. And why should we listen to what he says?

Nothing to support that. Even in the novelization, he realizes he needs to fight or he'll be killed. and Gillard puts windu and Sidious on the same level....see he only makes up their fighting styles, how dare he compare them

Originally posted by Lightsnake
IF you have evidence, name it. Palp ran at the start? Yoda ran at the end. Palpatine got pushed? Yoda got fried into the wall. During the fight on level ground, it was purely equal

Erm, Yoda ran because he had no lightsabre and Sidious held the high ground, there was no hope in hell that he could win.

Sidious ran because he feared Yoda.

So Sidious runs because of fear and Yoda runs because he has ran out of options in which to kill Sidious.

Yes, how DARE Sidious not risk everything he'd gained for decades on one fight with an even opponent. Palpatine and Vader also feared that so called 'retarded farmboy.'

And I recall Yoda being blown off the platform...by his own ineptitude. So, you mean....Yoda was AFRAID to take on Sidious after that. Did Sidious still have a saber?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Nothing to support that. Even in the novelization, he realizes he needs to fight or he'll be killed. and Gillard puts windu and Sidious on the same level....see he only makes up their fighting styles, how dare he compare them

What!? Windu beat Sidious, fair and square. If you dislike it, take it up with Lucas.

Why should we listen to the EP3 Novelization? it contradicts the movies in many places.

Yes, he does: Not by any saber skill, but a kick to the face. Gillard sas they're both 9s and he's got the authority, not you.
Novelizations are in the continuity. Take it up with Leland Chee if you're mad. They can be used to explain things from the movies as the scripts and novelizations are official

"Mace basically overpowers Sidios in this scene." - George Lucas

Can you really see any other Sith Lord getting kicked by a Jedi? He should have got up and fought again.

Or blasted him out of the window with a wormhole.

Anakin came in literally a second later. According to Lucas he then faked weakness

He faked having no power left after he had his face melted, fundamental difference there.

Not according to Lucas. And according to Ian McDiarmid that was Sidious's real face the entire time and he simply dropped an illusion. Force lightning disfigures....noone else. And it doesn't rot your teeth and turn your eyes Sithy yellow

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Not according to Lucas. And according to Ian McDiarmid that was Sidious's real face the entire time and he simply dropped an illusion. Force lightning disfigures....noone else. And it doesn't rot your teeth and turn your eyes Sithy yellow

No, firstly Ian Mcdiarmid could have been speaking metaphorically or literally, he doesn't say. He says that the face of Sidious is the real face.
Even then, what Ian says does not matter at all.

Oh and Lucas doesn't say either. I've seen that quote myself, I should know.

I've heard the quote on my DVD. "First we always had that after Mace overpowers Sidious, Sidious exaggerates his weakness to Anakin etc etc.

Yeah, exactly. Mace beats Sidious, but Sidious still has some power left, but evidently not enough to contend with Windu.

Which is why Sidious proceeds to blast Windu with far more power than he originally used.

Anyone could figure out that lightning display was all an act

Which is why Lucas has confirmed that Palpatine was beaten by Windu.

Funny lightsnake... In other threads and other posts everything said by Lucas was holy now you are argueing with what he said because it doesn't fit. Make up your mind on Lucas already. Mace beat Sidious, Sidious only faked that he had no power left, thats all.

And back to the topic, you still haven't shown us one reason why Maul would lose from Luke.

Who's arguing he lost IN THE SABER DUEL? Lucas applied to that. "HERE is where MAce overpowers etc etc. Here's where Sidious exaggerates his weakness." Specifically referring to the lightning part....lightning doesn't turn your eyes Sithy yellow.

You guys just have the quote in the wrong place. Sidious was never in danger once the lightning started. Unless you can explain how he exploded with more power he had when the lightning first started

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
So what? neither did any of the PT jedi before TPM. Obi-wan and Qui-Gon never had to fight sith lords before, ok it was the first time a sith was seen in like a 1000 years. Experience?!? Luke beat Vader who had alot more experience. Experience doesnt always mean automatic victory. alot of factors involved. Worst Case Scenario he pulls an obi-wan on maul and eventually wins. Best Case Scenario he wins like he did with vader. Double-bladed lightsabers aren't exclusive to the evil side ya know.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How many Sith or Jedi could choke two people with a mere gesture? Most need to clench their fist on the target....and in Shadowhunter, all Maul pulls off is a choke. Everything else is acrobatics. YOUNGLINGS can't take on Darth Vader or a horde of Ssi-Ruuk.

And Yoda'd have won if it was open ground....wow, nothing to support that statement.

And Anakin was superior to Obi-wan as a duelist. Anyone who uses force choke does so with a mere gesture.

Most of them tend to keep their hand clenched on the victim

It's a gesture, you don't need to do it to use the force.

Name one other time someone didn't need to hold their fist on someone to use a choke

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Most of them tend to keep their hand clenched on the victim IIRC, in the movie when the guards drop they're still squirming, more like he gave them a good jolt to the throat rather then crushing it.

They fall back, grabbing their throats, then still after a few seconds

Originally posted by Lightsnake
They fall back, grabbing their throats, then still after a few seconds It cuts away while they're still moving, actually.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Name one other time someone didn't need to hold their fist on someone to use a choke

Vader?

He sure held it on Motti. The only time he didn't was when he choked someone miles away. That seems pretty damn powerful.

He was still choking Jerjeroff when he put his hand down.

vader never touched Jerjerod...

Um, yes he did. Watch A New Hope again...

JerJerod wasn't IN a New Hope

I thought Jerjeroff was that guy who mocked the force? Or was that someone else?

Oh, him....Jerjerod is the one who tells Vader he needs more men in ROTJ, you're thinking of Admiral Motti.

Yeah, Vader's the only other one besides Luke to do that, then.

Ah, thanks.

I think you can do it, the movements are just for dramatic effect.

ard to say...Maul did it in Shadow Hunter and kept his fist until the guy died. People seem to need to gesture to focus the Force

It could be for dramatic neccessity.

If that were so, people wouldn't need to save arms to use force pushes...even Yoda needs to

I suppose so.

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
Question about the force powers: Maul only displayed approx 1 force power: Push *that is actually canon* while luke displayed at least 6(cloak, choke, pull, jump, accuracy, rage, etc)

If you're talking about Ep. 1, which I assume you are because you clearly couldn't be talking about the books where he uses the Force all the time in many different ways, then Lord Maul actually uses more than just the "Force Push" technique against Padawan Kenobi and Master Jinn in the film.

In the hanger scene, Lord Maul hurriedly but confidently back pedals away from the Hanger and the Jedi and quickly points at a far projectile on the floor with 2 fingers (the index and middle) then quickly points at a hanger door panel, flinging the debris towards the panel, destroying it and opening the doors. Cool scene he does it with a fierce look on his face.

Point is, is that Lord Maul uses Force in more ways than "approx 1".

Lord Maul effortlessly defeats Luke with hood on and only one side of his lightsaber hilt lit.

rotj LUKE? OR njo LIKE?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
vader never touched Jerjerod... Actually Vader originally choked Jerjerod too. They deleted the scene..

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
No. ROTJ Luke has hardly any training and is fairly crap.

Maul has a shedload more training than him. Not only that, Luke has never seen a double lightsabre before. He'll probably die within a few seconds.

What does that matter he went up against Darth Vader and won without a whole lot of effort

Cool necro, 9 year old threads are cool, brah.