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Sick shit.


http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles...990001&cid=774

God...I can't see any of the articles you post.

weird two links have died in a couple of minutes

New Link

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles?id=n20051225001309990001&cid=774

Maybe you use Articles you are subscribed to or something?

Anyways, this honor-killings are just sick, even my egoistical not caring mind finds them very wrong.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Maybe you use Articles you are subscribed to or something?

Anyways, this honor-killings are just sick, even my egoistical not caring mind finds them very wrong.

probably most stuff I use comes down a proxy

That's f*cked up. Someone needs to do something horrible to that murderer.
I think what would it prove to kill him in a horrible manner?
Nothing except the satisfaction of revenge being served I suspect.
God why the **** are some people so f*ucking crazy?

Originally posted by meep-meep
That's f*cked up. Someone needs to do something horrible to that murderer.
I think what would it prove to kill him in a horrible manner?
Nothing except the satisfaction of revenge being served I suspect.
God why the **** are some people so f*ucking crazy?


yeah seriously but when will women learn their roles

Honor is sometimes sooooooo over rated.

a few years back this guy in my American govt. class at college, who was from pakistan says mercy killings are very rampant... he even said that even if a girl is raped she has to die to restore her family's honor. and they also pardon the **** ers who do it if the family forgives him...those sick ****s over there needs jesus in a very serious kind of way

Originally posted by manjaro
a few years back this guy in my American govt. class at college, who was from pakistan says mercy killings are very rampant... he even said that even if a girl is raped she has to die to restore her family's honor. and they also pardon the **** ers who do it if the family forgives him...those sick ****s over there needs jesus in a very serious kind of way


Thats a man's land.......

HONOR IS OVER RATED!!!!

It can hurt those one cares about.

Originally posted by manjaro
a few years back this guy in my American govt. class at college, who was from pakistan says mercy killings are very rampant... he even said that even if a girl is raped she has to die to restore her family's honor. and they also pardon the **** ers who do it if the family forgives him...those sick ****s over there needs jesus in a very serious kind of way
JESUS DOES NOT HELP ANYTHING.
Morals help people.

Wow.

They had an article about honor killings in the newspaper here a few weeks ago...I think it's rather sad

This guy needs to get beat to the brink of death, and then put to hard labor for the rest of his life.

Originally posted by debbiejo
HONOR IS OVER RATED!!!!

It can hurt those one cares about.

I'm assuming you're of the beautiful sex yes? Well in that case, i can see how you wouldn't understand the importance honor has to a man.

That having been said, there is NO honor in killing, and especially no honor in killing an innocent girl......or four.

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
I'm assuming you're of the beautiful sex yes? Well in that case, i can see how you wouldn't understand the importance honor has to a man.

That having been said, there is NO honor in killing, and especially no honor in killing an innocent girl......or four.


she wasn't innocent she didn't listen to him........

Originally posted by soleran30
she wasn't innocent she didn't listen to him........

Don't know you, so i don't know if you're serious or not. I truly hope you're not though...

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
Don't know you, so i don't know if you're serious or not. I truly hope you're not though...


its a weird culture over there............

Originally posted by soleran30
its a weird culture over there............

Ah, so you're saying you don't agree with what he did, but you understand it, because of their culture?

The College i study in has a lot of muslims in it. I've spoken to some that are closer to me about these things. You know what they say? They say what i always thought. That the religion thing is blown out of proportion by the media.
That stories like these happen, yeah, but they're bound to happen once in a while. However, the media make them out to be the consensus for an entire religion.

Kinda like saying every single murder in America is somehow connected to Christianity, and then generalizing, and saying that "American culture is weird.....they condone killing and stuff like that".

Get the idea?

absolutely however acts like these aren't motivated by religion either..........its just the rules in their part of the world..........not to mention there is hindu out there as well but mostly muslims.

Media sucks it makes pawns out of so many people

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
I'm assuming you're of the beautiful sex yes? Well in that case, i can see how you wouldn't understand the importance honor has to a man.

. Honor can be self pride.........and hurtful to others.

Originally posted by soleran30
absolutely however acts like these aren't motivated by religion either..........its just the rules in their part of the world..........not to mention there is hindu out there as well but mostly muslims.

Media sucks it makes pawns out of so many people

See, now that's just wrong as well. "it's the rules in their part of the world". Like i said, it's made to appear that way. The American and European people want something shocking. Something they can go "Oh My God" at. So the media create that.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Honor can be self pride.........and hurtful to others.

Yeah? So can love. Only reason you're accusing honor and not love as well is because it's an emotion you probably experience less.

Honor is made by man against another........You might as well equate honor with scripture.........false!

Originally posted by debbiejo
Honor is made by man against another........You might as well equate honor with scripture.........false!

Where'd you get that definition from? Honor is something you're born with, that some people like to keep, some people don't care about, and some people discard.

I thin you're equating honor with war, which would be extremely stupid.

Honor.....Pfft..........a waste.

It makes men in Japan kill themselves, people kill their daughers or kids........People do things they wouldn't feel in their heart to do.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Honor.....Pfft..........a waste.

It makes men in Japan kill themselves, people kill their daughers or kids........People do things they wouldn't feel in their heart to do.

Love......Pffft.......a waste.

It makes teenage girls kill themselves, husbands kill their adultering wives, kings start wars..........People do things they wouldn't feel in their heart to do.

Can you see how flawed your argument is?

Non conditionial love does NOT do these things........It's conditionial love that does...........conditions made by man just as honor is made by man to fulfill a need of doing to make better.

Wars are vendettas of honor.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Non condition love does NOT do these things........It's condition love that does...........conditions made by man just as honor is made by man to fulfill a need of doing to make better.

Are you talking like Yoda on purpose? Cause it's hard trying to decypher what you're saying when the sentences have no logic

On the contrary my naive little friend. It is indeed non-conditioned love that does those things. The kind of love that affects you on a biological level.

The only reason you don't understand the flaws in your argument is that you don't really experience the feeling of honor too often i suppose.
In other words, it's easy to accuse honor of all those things, cause you're not "guilty" of it.
But therein lies the great fallacy. Love is responsible of the same things you say honor is. Just like any human emotion. But you experience those, so admitting to that would mean accusing yourself as well.

Are you saying that love is the equivalent as honor?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Are you saying that love is the equivalent as honor?

No i'm not. I think what i'm saying is obvious enough if you read it.

For some reason men seem to feel they need to be in such an honorable position as to kill themselves because they cannot find a job?.Japan..To belittle themselves because their daughters might defile them in some way?....False honor in my opinion....Love is nothing like that....Love lets be to what ever might be for the betterment of another..........Honor be cursed!! Honor hurts a heart, honor kills, honor demeans others, honor keeps one from loving.

Originally posted by debbiejo
For some reason men seem to feel they need to be in such an honorable position as to kill themselves because they cannot find a job?.Japan..To belittle themselves because their daughters might defile them in some way?....False honor in my opinion....Love is nothing like that....Love lets be to what ever might be for the betterment of another..........Honor be cursed!! Honor hurts a heart, honor kills, honor demeans others, honor keeps one from loving.

No. For some reason, SOME men feel that they've let themselves down by not having a job, and so they take the easy way out. Also, for some reason, SOME men feel the need to kill their daughters because they feel betrayed, etc. etc.
And that's not honor, like i said from my first post in this thread. You sound like you're a very naive teenage girl with no idea of:

1. what the world is like
2. how to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

How would you like me to generalize (like you) and say "for some reason women commit suicide because their boyfriends or husbands leave them".

You're generalizing all over the place with your false assumptions and such. Throwing around big words while you clearly have no idea what you're saying.
Love hurts hearts, love demeans others, love can make you a pathetic shell of a person.


Stop generalizing, grow up and don't be a hypocrite

There's an honor of respect and an honor of self gratification to make right.

Respect doesn't NEED honor. It just is. It's felt. You don't have to prove it. It's known.

Honor is soooooooo male is mind boggling.

Actually Bebbie I know some honourable women

Originally posted by debbiejo
There's an honor of respect and an honor of self gratification to make right.

Respect doesn't NEED honor. It just is. It's felt. You don't have to prove it. It's known.

Honor is soooooooo male is mind boggling.

The way you use stereotypes denotes just how immature you are

wouldn't you agree Whirly?

Whirly??????? OH god...... hahhahahaha....whirly wouldn't support me.

Honor is destructive IMO............so male........And no I'm not a teenager. I live in the world of it...........Honor Pfft.


Honor in it's true form is admirable, but not in histories sake and not in some of todays thinking.

Everyone should have self respect, but this WHOLE HONOR thing is totally a male soooo male "I gotta get you back" Families sake, loves sake, nations sake........EGO.

Hurts people

I'm talking about honor going awry.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Whirly??????? OH god...... hahhahahaha....whirly wouldn't support me.

Honor is destructive IMO............so male........And no I'm not a teenager. I live in the world of it...........Honor Pfft.


Honor in it's true form is admirable, but not in histories sake and not in some of todays thinking.

Everyone should have self respect, but this WHOLE HONOR thing is totally a male soooo male "I gotta get you back" Families sake, loves sake, nations sake........EGO.

Hurts people

The exact same thing can be said about love. With the possible exception that more wars were fought and more people died in the name of love than honor.

debbiejo

It's quite obvious you have no idea what honor is.

Your not even hearing (or just not listening to) what Dark Urizen has spelled out for you very clearly.

You just sound like a little teenage girl who has no concept of anything. In order to be taken seriously in any kinda of argument you must allow yourself to step outside of what you personally think and see things from other perspectives. It is apparent you cannot do this. Dark Urizen is using love as an example, a placeholder. There are many other emotions that are responsible for the things that you think honor is responsible for.

have you ever read the Iliad? It is the perfect example of what Dark Urizen is trying to say. Read it, you might learn how love is capable of far worse things then honor is.

I always questioned the validity of the Iliad as a symbol of love, ancient love has a lot of conceptional differences to modern love, in many cases, as society has changed.

Still, I always enjoyed the prideful, honorable end to Achilles, with his "Better to die as a lion, then live as a dog." Of course on reflection when he is met later in the afterlife, his tune has changed significantly, as is right, because his outlook while alive was questionable.

And of course it must be said that the Iliad, the Trojan War, if it occurred, probably didn't pan out quite like that, it has more in common with historical fiction, then true history. Generally I see that the most terrible things in human history are done out of greed, hate, arrogance and fear, though they masquerade as justice, religion, honor and love. Indeed sometimes the people commiting the terrible act actually believe in it's validity. However in such cases they are nothing of the sort, and should be identified as such.

Still, true honor is a great thing, but like so many theoretically virtuous conditions it has a tendency to be tainted by the human condition, by bias, inflexibility, pride, arrogance, envy. Hate. Passion. Zealotry. Once upon a time people killed themselves for honor we are told, and were killed by others for it. Often it really does seem noble, mainly because it involved the person's choice, and is portrayed without all those negative things. In reality did the cookie crumble like that? Who can say. What is certainly wrong though is that some people still have twisted views of honor, and are prepared to act upon them, to the detriment of society as a whole, and the individuals themselves. Such a thing is terrible, and should be treated as a crime, as there is no honor in it, just as there is no honor in stoning homosexuals, or throwing acid on women, or expecting them to throw themselves upon their husbands funeral pyre.

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
Ah, so you're saying you don't agree with what he did, but you understand it, because of their culture?

The College i study in has a lot of muslims in it. I've spoken to some that are closer to me about these things. You know what they say? They say what i always thought. That the religion thing is blown out of proportion by the media.
That stories like these happen, yeah, but they're bound to happen once in a while. However, the media make them out to be the consensus for an entire religion.

Kinda like saying every single murder in America is somehow connected to Christianity, and then generalizing, and saying that "American culture is weird.....they condone killing and stuff like that".

Get the idea?

Thank you. That was well said

As I have said I'm talking about honor going awry....I don't see wars being fought for love. If so, please list the wars. The Iliad is more a book of fiction.

My comments as in reference to the link posted at the beginning of this thread...This kind of honor, is sickening and twisted.

I dont get it. You think we should respect other cultures practises, but then when they do something thats part of their culture you jump on it. Why? His country, his culture let him do what he likes.

Originally posted by Imagawa666
I dont get it. You think we should respect other cultures practises, but then when they do something thats part of their culture you jump on it. Why? His country, his culture let him do what he likes.
Cause he killed four humans. That should be enough to justify actions against him.

Originally posted by Imagawa666
I dont get it. You think we should respect other cultures practises, but then when they do something thats part of their culture you jump on it. Why? His country, his culture let him do what he likes.


I'm sure most Pakistani women would disagree. These brutal murders had nothing to do with honor. The piece of shit that did this should hang.

This is OK with you? Someone killing because they don't want their pride or honor hurt?


Cultures have different beliefs such as eating their dead relatives to gain their inner essence...Now eating the dead doesn't hurt anyone, but then these cultures seem to have accrued diseases with it from the practice. But Barbaric cultures that feel it's ok to kill ones own flesh is ok?...NO

Originally posted by soleran30
its a weird culture over there............

No, it's a different culture over there. This is the typical American perspective, and the reason most of the rest of the world hate us. It's "weird" and we "don't understand" it and it should be changed and made into us. I understand you didn't say all that, but you did indirectly. It's a differnt culture, that's it. And it would be a matter of weird if the authroities did nothing about it. As it is, they arrested the man and "justice" will be served.


Originally posted by Dark Urizen
Honor is something you're born with, that some people like to keep, some people don't care about, and some people discard.


You're confusing honor with dignity, in the United States. Honor, as Debbiejo pointed out, is a man made concept that is often taken way too seriously. I agree with both sides of this debate. Honor is a good thing, but taking it to extremes is not. A man need not kill himself because he blew a million dollar deal for his company. However, that is their culture. So, who are we to judge? The western mindset views this concept as flawed, and taking itself way to seriously. The eastern mindset views our persepective as sloppy, indignant, lazy and honour-less.

so many insightful people.........no disrepect but I am not going to write a dissertation on all topics.........please I meant the word weird because IT IS WEIRD TO ME...........lol please no need to correct me to fit a PC bill.

Also I realize that even though the man may have felt the need to do this the society as a whole obviously didn't feel it was justified and he has been incarcerated as a result of his actions.

If the rest of the world hates us great super awesome they can hate but not educate and feel justified......typical oh so typical.

Good! Hope you include my view, the normal one....

Relgigion sucks. A bit like this forum

Whats reigigion?

Originally posted by Imagawa666
I dont get it. You think we should respect other cultures practises, but then when they do something thats part of their culture you jump on it. Why? His country, his culture let him do what he likes.

its not part of their culture to murder their children.
tens of thousands of people are shot in america every year.
does that make it an acceptable part of american culture?

can you please stop posting, racist child?

Hey I can be racist if i want. I have the right to freedom of speech. Maybe all this equaltie in the world and political correctness has ruined the human race.

It's just ironic really that people like to say that things like this aren't common practice in third world countries............they happen alot and they happen alot more then people in the USA getting shot by handguns as well..........

Born to be a slave in Niger

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programm...ent/4250709.stm

shucks there is an article posted by someone else. If we want to turn our noses up at atrocities in the USA then we should damn well make sure we do it with other countries

Originally posted by Imagawa666
Hey I can be racist if i want. I have the right to freedom of speech. Maybe all this equaltie in the world and political correctness has ruined the human race.

you are right. it is a free country, and you have the right to be a racist, as well as uneducated, idiotic, and childish. all freedoms which you excercise liberally.

Originally posted by Imagawa666
Hey I can be racist if i want. I have the right to freedom of speech. Maybe all this equaltie in the world and political correctness has ruined the human race.

political correctness perhaps. Equality on the other hand and the rights of the individual are something wonderful to apire to unfortunately due to money/power imbalances it is not a real thing. However thankfully in some places we have a pseudo equality on many of the important issues.

^ So you agree with me how totally useless this idea of honor is, or are gonna stick to your view as previously said.