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which book do u think is God's words.....which has not been distorted or changed since they wer sent by God!......the bible or the quran???

Neither...They are based on a man instead of what a real god would say. There might be some moral truths in them as parables but as far as it being the "Word of God"....nope...Oh and the geography might be true.

how is the quran based on man?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Neither...They are based on a man instead of what a real god would say.

So exactly what would a real god say then?

BOTH

sorry if both are God's words then are u trying to say that the Quran is full of contradctions like the bible ....which we found out afta we anyalsed the divinity of jesus!!.......yah we found out that the bible was based on man's desires of pagan belief

Originally posted by Echuu
So exactly what would a real god say then? It would not have petty differences and rules...It would be bigger than that of a mans view on life...It would be way beyond forcing and assimilation others into that belief...It would not condemn. A god would not think like a mere man. There may be some moral lessons in there, geography, but as being "THEE word of god"..no.

the bible was edited and distorted by the church to rule society

The quran was revealed 1400 years ago and has scientific evidence in it that scientists only recently have come to discover in the 20th century. no man could have wrote it.

I wouldn't take it literally. If it teaches a conversion with might, then it's is mans words, not a god.

Originally posted by yoda545
sorry if both are God's words then are u trying to say that the Quran is full of contradctions like the bible ....which we found out afta we anyalsed the divinity of jesus!!.......yah we found out that the bible was based on man's desires of pagan belief Sorry, the Bible does not contradict itself when regards to the nature of Jesus Christ.

Yes it does...which is true?

Was Jesus trustworthy?
John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.



Is God Peaceable?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)
Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)

is any1 still here?

what do you mean i wouldnt take it literally? There is scientific proof within the quran to explain some of sciences great mysteries! Why ignore that?

Let's try.

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
There is another who testifies in my favour, and I know that his testimony about me is valid.
John 5:30-32

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."
Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.
John 8:12-14

The Hebrew law stating that a person's testimony about himself is not acceptable legal proof, unless someone else is able to confirm it. That's why the Pharisees questioned and accused Him. Jesus was very aware of that. In fact, He was simply repeating this law in John 5:31, that, the testimony of the Other One about Him is valid or true.

In 8:14, He is stating that, despite what the law may say, what He is saying is true. He was not giving a testimony about Himself as what the Pharisees accused Him - He was simply giving a testimony He had heard from God - where He came from and He is going to.

Originally posted by yoda545
sorry if both are God's words then are u trying to say that the Quran is full of contradctions like the bible ....which we found out afta we anyalsed the divinity of jesus!!.......yah we found out that the bible was based on man's desires of pagan belief

All books are the word of God. You must first understand my belief of God. God is everything and any part of God is God. Therefore, I am God, and so are you. Humans wrote these books; who are part of God, and therefore the words of God. If there is truth in any of them, only you can find it, because the truth is only in you, and not in a book.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes it does...which is true?

Was Jesus trustworthy?
John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.


He's talking about his divinity beig a witness verses human standards of judgment.

oops lol I guess Jury pretty much explained it

I personally think neither is the word of God, though both have good stories in them. No, they were written by men who might very well have believed what they wrote, but still by men.

Though from my readings the Koran is a bit more cohesive, without quite as many of the contradictions of the Bible, but that probably stems from the way it was put together, and the number of authors and Church editing done in Christianity. However, any noble messages in them have both been twisted - Muslim extremists, treatment of women, etc, Christianity, the Crusades, extreme evangelism, anti-gay etc.

And I have to agree with debbiejo about the contradictions like the temperament of God. I mean old testament he was all angry, fire and brimstone, kill the first born son, take Israel from it's owners with sword and blood, kill humanity with a flood - then New testament he sends Jesus and suddenly becomes all loving, peaceable and happy - turn the other cheek, no violence, blessed are the meek, don't worry I wont interfere with humanity any more, you wont even know I'm here. Kind of like a big old divine hippy.

OT does totally contradict how god is portrayed in the NT. Big nasty god compared to nice loving god...Maybe god changed it's mind. But then again the big nasty god is gonna destroy the earth with a big rock..

Lets bring back the nice god to move the rock a little to the left..

Or is that the good god turned nasty with the rock thing....Maybe god needs to get a woman...ie goddess..make him happy...Be happy god...then they can begot some more.

Oooo. That sounds like a good idea, though I'd hate to be around while little Yahweh junior is going through puberty and that rebellious stage. Who knows, maybe that's what happened to the dinosaurs, God was feeling all angry so he wiped them out, the pretended they never existed so as to not get into trouble off his parents.

I remember being told once a theory about God and his temperament (happy/angry) - that he never really understood his creation and why they were the way they were - which made him angry, especially as they never acted the way he wanted. So, he sends Jesus, and that has a humanising effect on him, as through Jesus he came to understand us, so he becomes a lot nicer.

Not really sure how that works with God being all knowing, and really, nice people weren't in large supply back then, he would have a lot more experience with the negative side of humanity, you'd think if he was going to be emotionally tainted by humanity it wouldn't be in a nice way... it'd be in the "Let's stick Jesus on a great big old cross for no reason" kind of way. Oh, wait.

I guess no one understands big ol Almighty! He doesn't understand his creation and thought, duh, I'll just throw my self on the cross, but I'll do it in such a way to confuse everyone and call it another god...I'll just split in two and throw myself down...Then I'll wait for people to get as confused as I am about my creation. That will show them....Then I'll make a book full of contradiction that should do it....Then I'll grab a beer and watch!..

Originally posted by debbiejo
I guess no one understands big ol Almighty! He doesn't understand his creation and thought, duh, I'll just throw my self on the cross, but I'll do it in such a way to confuse everyone and call it another god...I'll just split in two and throw myself down...Then I'll wait for people to get as confused as I am about my creation. That will show them....Then I'll make a book full of contradiction that should do it....Then I'll grab a beer and watch!..

It's really not that hard to understand if you just open your eyes and get past certain christians who have distorted the truth to their own liking.

You forget Echuu I lived my life as a Christian. And once a person learns some truths, how could they go back...It's like learning how to tie your own shoes, could I honestly pretend I don't know how.... Not possilble......though sometimes I wish ignorance was bliss...

The Lotus Sutra!