Wonderwoman v She Hulk

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Sir Whirlysplat
Wonderwoman is grounded and has none of her gimmicks it's a pure fist fight.

The Ion
Diana 9/10

Stronger, faster, way more skilled.

leonidas
Originally posted by The Ion
Diana 9/10

Stronger, faster, way more skilled.

i agree, though i'm not sure about the stronger. current sh is stronger than herc, isn't she? still, the difference probably isn't THAT big and her skill and speed advantages would make up the difference easily.

The Ion
Herc isn't as strong as he used to be though. I wouldn't think She-Hulk could go toe to toe with Immortal Herc.

outavodka
but wadabout She hulk vs WW

ScarletSpider
She-Hulk's at least twice as strong as the Thing, she maxed the strength gauging device Reed has Ben use...with one hand. So she would be stronger than Immortal Herc, were he immortal and were they to fight.

And recently She Hulk's fighting abilities went way up, she trained with Gamora and others to have a chance at fighting the Champion.

xmarksthespot
I would give the majority to WW. She definitely has the speed and skill advantage.

spetznaz
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that comparing Marvel strength levels (for virtually all non-cosmic characters) against the major DC characters is not a prudent exercise.
For instance comparing She-Hulk vs WonderWoman.
WW could refuse to use her other powers (eg super-speed, flight, weaponry) and simply rely on strength and strength alone ...and there is nothing that the She-Hulk would be able to do.
You could even have the Thing and She-Hulk versus WW, and the result would be the same.
You could even have the Thing, She-Hulk, AND Colossus versus WonderWoman, and WW would still win (and win with abundant ease) .....and this is with her using strength only.

Why?

Because of the difference between Marvel strength stats and DC stats.

And WonderWoman is a person who not only LIFTS laden oil supertankers, but FLIES off with them.
She is also a character that helped Superman and Martian Manhunter MOVE the MOON.

And she is matched against She-Hulk?

TO explain further let me just copy and paste from another thread (this one dealing with Superman, WonderWoman, and the Martian Manhunter). Although it primarily dealt with Superman, it also delves into WonderWoman and Martian Manhunter (and anyways all 3 were pulling the moon together, and their strength levels are nigh analogous for the most part).

Compare the paste below with the strength levels for She-Hulk (and for that matter for the Thing and Colossus).

Basically your average (and above average) Marvel character simply doesn't have sufficient strength levels to even stand up against any of the upper echelon DC characters, and matching a character like She-Hulk against WonderWoman is a huge mismatch.

See below.

Enjoy:


Using Marvel's strength stats for DC characters is folly.
Take Superman ....you said he is 100+ (and I guess that is technically accurate, since he has over a 100T lifting capability). The thing is he can lift FAR more than this.
Take for example when Martian Manhunter, WonderWoman, and Superman moved the moon to fend off an attack by White Martians.
Now, the mass of the moon (in the real world note) is 74 quitillion tons (basically 7.4, followed by 19 zeroes, tons I.E 740,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons ).
Now, assume each was moving a third of that mass.
That is 24 quitillion tons EACH (240,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons EACH)!

I'd say that is quite different from Marvel's power system whereby the ability to lift even 80 tons is taken as a considerable feat (I actually laughed when some person said yesterday that the Martian Manhunter 'starts at 80 tons.' LOL. No he doesn't).

For example think of it this way.
The weight of an Abrams M1A2 MBT (main battle tank) is 68.7 tons.
68.7 tons.
This means that a character with a 100 ton lifting ability would NOT even be able to lift TWO Abrams tanks!!!!!!!!!

Now, take an oil tanker.
A fully laden oil tanker can have in excess of 300,000 tons.
How in goodness name is a 80 ton character supposed to even budge such a behemoth?
Note that the largest oil tanker, which is the Knock Nevis, weighing in at 647,955 tonnes fully laden would be TOTALLY out of the range of a 100 ton character.
Thus the whole 'Marvelize Superman' thing just wouldn't work.


Superman is not a male Rogue.
Superman is not a flying Colossus.
Superman is not a red-n-blue QuickSilver.

Thus he should be far stronger than Rogue.
Far more invulnerable than Colossus.
And far faster than QuickSilver.

Superman should never be at the level of Colossus. Ever. Not even near.
.

Sir Whirlysplat
Originally posted by spetznaz
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that comparing Marvel strength levels (for virtually all non-cosmic characters) against the major DC characters is not a prudent exercise.
For instance comparing She-Hulk vs WonderWoman.
WW could refuse to use her other powers (eg super-speed, flight, weaponry) and simply rely on strength and strength alone ...and there is nothing that the She-Hulk would be able to do.
You could even have the Thing and She-Hulk versus WW, and the result would be the same.
You could even have the Thing, She-Hulk, AND Colossus versus WonderWoman, and WW would still win (and win with abundant ease) .....and this is with her using strength only.

Why?

Because of the difference between Marvel strength stats and DC stats.

And WonderWoman is a person who not only LIFTS laden oil supertankers, but FLIES off with them.
She is also a character that helped Superman and Martian Manhunter MOVE the MOON.

And she is matched against She-Hulk?

TO explain further let me just copy and paste from another thread (this one dealing with Superman, WonderWoman, and the Martian Manhunter). Although it primarily dealt with Superman, it also delves into WonderWoman and Martian Manhunter (and anyways all 3 were pulling the moon together, and their strength levels are nigh analogous for the most part).

Compare the paste below with the strength levels for She-Hulk (and for that matter for the Thing and Colossus).

Basically your average (and above average) Marvel character simply doesn't have sufficient strength levels to even stand up against any of the upper echelon DC characters, and matching a character like She-Hulk against WonderWoman is a huge mismatch.

See below.

Enjoy:


Using Marvel's strength stats for DC characters is folly.
Take Superman ....you said he is 100+ (and I guess that is technically accurate, since he has over a 100T lifting capability). The thing is he can lift FAR more than this.
Take for example when Martian Manhunter, WonderWoman, and Superman moved the moon to fend off an attack by White Martians.
Now, the mass of the moon (in the real world note) is 74 quitillion tons (basically 7.4, followed by 19 zeroes, tons I.E 740,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons ).
Now, assume each was moving a third of that mass.
That is 24 quitillion tons EACH (240,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons EACH)!

I'd say that is quite different from Marvel's power system whereby the ability to lift even 80 tons is taken as a considerable feat (I actually laughed when some person said yesterday that the Martian Manhunter 'starts at 80 tons.' LOL. No he doesn't).

For example think of it this way.
The weight of an Abrams M1A2 MBT (main battle tank) is 68.7 tons.
68.7 tons.
This means that a character with a 100 ton lifting ability would NOT even be able to lift TWO Abrams tanks!!!!!!!!!

Now, take an oil tanker.
A fully laden oil tanker can have in excess of 300,000 tons.
How in goodness name is a 80 ton character supposed to even budge such a behemoth?
Note that the largest oil tanker, which is the Knock Nevis, weighing in at 647,955 tonnes fully laden would be TOTALLY out of the range of a 100 ton character.
Thus the whole 'Marvelize Superman' thing just wouldn't work.


Superman is not a male Rogue.
Superman is not a flying Colossus.
Superman is not a red-n-blue QuickSilver.

Thus he should be far stronger than Rogue.
Far more invulnerable than Colossus.
And far faster than QuickSilver.

Superman should never be at the level of Colossus. Ever. Not even near.
.

All trur check out the truth about post crisis Supermsn thread and why he is at least Thanos level in physical strength.

Fishy 500
Originally posted by leonidas
i agree, though i'm not sure about the stronger. current sh is stronger than herc, isn't she? still, the difference probably isn't THAT big and her skill and speed advantages would make up the difference easily.

Yes .... Current Herc is no longer at a Manhattan moving level ! He's around the Namor level IMO !

Wonder Woman was above original Herc (Like you, i consider the lifting the earth thing to be PIS)

Fishy 500
Originally posted by spetznaz
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that comparing Marvel strength levels (for virtually all non-cosmic characters) against the major DC characters is not a prudent exercise.
For instance comparing She-Hulk vs WonderWoman.
WW could refuse to use her other powers (eg super-speed, flight, weaponry) and simply rely on strength and strength alone ...and there is nothing that the She-Hulk would be able to do.
You could even have the Thing and She-Hulk versus WW, and the result would be the same.
You could even have the Thing, She-Hulk, AND Colossus versus WonderWoman, and WW would still win (and win with abundant ease) .....and this is with her using strength only.

Why?

Because of the difference between Marvel strength stats and DC stats.

And WonderWoman is a person who not only LIFTS laden oil supertankers, but FLIES off with them.
She is also a character that helped Superman and Martian Manhunter MOVE the MOON.

And she is matched against She-Hulk?

TO explain further let me just copy and paste from another thread (this one dealing with Superman, WonderWoman, and the Martian Manhunter). Although it primarily dealt with Superman, it also delves into WonderWoman and Martian Manhunter (and anyways all 3 were pulling the moon together, and their strength levels are nigh analogous for the most part).

Compare the paste below with the strength levels for She-Hulk (and for that matter for the Thing and Colossus).

Basically your average (and above average) Marvel character simply doesn't have sufficient strength levels to even stand up against any of the upper echelon DC characters, and matching a character like She-Hulk against WonderWoman is a huge mismatch.

See below.

Enjoy:


Using Marvel's strength stats for DC characters is folly.
Take Superman ....you said he is 100+ (and I guess that is technically accurate, since he has over a 100T lifting capability). The thing is he can lift FAR more than this.
Take for example when Martian Manhunter, WonderWoman, and Superman moved the moon to fend off an attack by White Martians.
Now, the mass of the moon (in the real world note) is 74 quitillion tons (basically 7.4, followed by 19 zeroes, tons I.E 740,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons ).
Now, assume each was moving a third of that mass.
That is 24 quitillion tons EACH (240,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons EACH)!

I'd say that is quite different from Marvel's power system whereby the ability to lift even 80 tons is taken as a considerable feat (I actually laughed when some person said yesterday that the Martian Manhunter 'starts at 80 tons.' LOL. No he doesn't).

For example think of it this way.
The weight of an Abrams M1A2 MBT (main battle tank) is 68.7 tons.
68.7 tons.
This means that a character with a 100 ton lifting ability would NOT even be able to lift TWO Abrams tanks!!!!!!!!!

Now, take an oil tanker.
A fully laden oil tanker can have in excess of 300,000 tons.
How in goodness name is a 80 ton character supposed to even budge such a behemoth?
Note that the largest oil tanker, which is the Knock Nevis, weighing in at 647,955 tonnes fully laden would be TOTALLY out of the range of a 100 ton character.
Thus the whole 'Marvelize Superman' thing just wouldn't work.


Superman is not a male Rogue.
Superman is not a flying Colossus.
Superman is not a red-n-blue QuickSilver.

Thus he should be far stronger than Rogue.
Far more invulnerable than Colossus.
And far faster than QuickSilver.

Superman should never be at the level of Colossus. Ever. Not even near.
.

Agreed with all of this, excellent post !

Marvel characters are above the stats asscociated with them, (i.e. All Level 6 characters can alll lift way over 100 tons.), But few are lifting anywhere near the loads of DC top tiers.

IMO many of the marvel power houses are on the same level of Aquaman (I don't mean Thor and co, but the Thing, Sasquatch and Colossus).

Ultimate Colossus and Atlas are both considered two of marvles strongest at the moment, and yet thier feats seem almost standard when compared to DC's.

She Hulk is nothing compared to Wonder Woman ! smile

HigH ScholaR
HMmm YeS THE WHOLE MOON FEAT I GUESS FLYING ABILITY HAD NOVING TO DO WITH IT, oh and in the avengers/jla series the uk had bios on some characters and MM can lift 100 tons, sure DC has more feats than marvelbutits quality of the feats not quantity.

Fishy 500
Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
HMmm YeS THE WHOLE MOON FEAT I GUESS FLYING ABILITY HAD NOVING TO DO WITH IT, oh and in the avengers/jla series the uk had bios on some characters and MM can lift 100 tons, sure DC has more feats than marvelbutits quality of the feats not quantity.

Quality of the feats .... Puhhhhhlease !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes picking up a giant snake isn't exactly what i would call 'quality' smile

outavodka
Nobody does it better than BIG BLUE, thats y he is who he is till it comes it comes to a green rock then everything goes to hell///////////////////. See to some Supes is like the cool ass all varsity jock back in highschool who the girls loved, and teachers laughed wit, most of the guys envied him, and half of them kept it to themselves. well because u know he wont give u a swirly u take it out on him.
its just my way a lookin at it too!

spetznaz
Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
HMmm YeS THE WHOLE MOON FEAT I GUESS FLYING ABILITY HAD NOVING TO DO WITH IT, oh and in the avengers/jla series the uk had bios on some characters and MM can lift 100 tons, sure DC has more feats than marvelbutits quality of the feats not quantity.

Question 1: Flying ability. Well, it had nothing to do with it. Why? Well, let's say instead of MArtian Manhunter, Superman and WonderWoman you had Rogue, Cannonball, and Sunfire. All 3 can FLY, but they would basically be worthless when it came to a task of that caliber.
Thus flying ability had nothing about moving something with the mass of the moon.
If it was all about 'flying ability' then any character that could fly would be able to replicate the feat.
Maybe you are taking the fact that the moon is 'in space' as being indicative of it being easy to move it. Actually the moon would still have its full mass in space (maybe the whole weight/mass dichotomy was the problem). The mass of the moon is still 74 quintillions.
Add to this the extra strength that was required to move the moon out of its orbit and bring it closer to earth, and THEN move it back away from earth and take it back to its orbit.
Truthfully speaking doing that (taking it out of its orbit, and then moving it back) would require far more strength that what was needed to move 74quintillion tons.
Three characters did that .....WonderWoman, Superman and Martian Manhunter.


And yet WonderWoman is put up against She Hulk!
Jeez!
That is even worse that putting QuickSilver vs the Flash (although in crossovers such lunacy happens, and for thatmatter QS was put up against the Flash, and WonderWoman against Storm ....in which Storm 'won.' Although it was due to fan voting it was still one of the most idiotic printings ever)

Question 2: Quality vs quantity of feats. That is so ludicrous I will not even bother answer it. Anyone who has read up on the various feats accomplished by ANY of the DC powerhouses (even Plastic Man) would concur.

roughrider
When will people realize...moving a moon, dragging a planet like War World, doesn't count as a feat of strength.
I'm crazy? Listen.
The source of Superman's powers have often been discussed. There is enough to reason his power of flight, like most who don't use magic or technology, is psionics. It could never be super-leaps - that's what the Hulk does - because to stop and hold yourself in mid air is power from the mind. Flying with something heavy is letting the power from the mind take the will of the object. Even if one could physically push a moon or planet by strength, it would be impossible unless you were standing on an object of greater mass, to push off of ie. A Bigger Planet. The power that drives someone to fly through the air, is the same power used to move any object of huge mass. How much mass, depends on the willpower capability of the hero. If the Silver Surfer used the Power Cosmic to push a planet, no one would think it was a feat of strength. But it is the same principle: power from the mind, not muscle. This is something that applies to Supes, Wonder Woman, Martain Manhunter and others.

Back to this...I haven't seen She-Hulk since her strength and skill got a good upgrade, but I think Diana's speed on the ground could still give her an edge to win most matchups.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by roughrider


Back to this...I haven't seen She-Hulk since her strength and skill got a good upgrade, but I think Diana's speed on the ground could still give her an edge to win most matchups. HOw does 1 month of training constitute as a skill upgrade?

roughrider
Originally posted by snoopdogg
HOw does 1 month of training constitute as a skill upgrade?

I don't know how much. Training with Gamora is great, but unless I see a scan that shows she is more skilled now, Diana does have the edge here too.

Arahan
Wondy, stronger, faster.

WW would do the same what Titannus did:

http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/6642/auts0xf.th.jpg

I am not a She-Hulk hater, I really like her much more than WW.
But she is outclassed, cruel reality. But she is definately sexier love

Mindship
I gotta agree with most of the above. WW is in the top tier of DC powerhouses, near-cosmic level strength. She-Hulk is not. I also don't see her fighting with such great skill; she seems to slug 'n' brawl most of the time. For that matter, so does WW, though now 'n' then she has used kicks.

There was a "theory" I had heard once. Something where Marvel heroes noticed that when they were in the DCU their power increased, and DC heroes noticed that when they were in the MU, their power levels decreased. If we went along those lines, then I could see WW and She-Hulk being very evenly matched.

olympian
"Quality of the feats .... Puhhhhhlease !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes picking up a giant snake isn't exactly what i would call 'quality' "

Does that means, moving Warworld isent a quality feat too? wink



"HOw does 1 month of training constitute as a skill upgrade?"

It doesnt. What she got was a physical boost not skills.

roughrider
Originally posted by Mindship
I gotta agree with most of the above. WW is in the top tier of DC powerhouses, near-cosmic level strength. She-Hulk is not. I also don't see her fighting with such great skill; she seems to slug 'n' brawl most of the time. For that matter, so does WW, though now 'n' then she has used kicks.

There was a "theory" I had heard once. Something where Marvel heroes noticed that when they were in the DCU their power increased, and DC heroes noticed that when they were in the MU, their power levels decreased. If we went along those lines, then I could see WW and She-Hulk being very evenly matched.

Not exactly. Flash found there was no speedforce in the Marvelverse, so his power decreased to nothing. The Scarlet Witch found her powers increased hugely, because Lords Of Chaos and Order are active in everyday DCverse life. I think if she stayed home, and visited the pocket dimension rules by Lord Chaos and Master Order, the same thing would happen - personalities of Reed and Sue Richards were warped by the nature of that place.

spetznaz
Originally posted by roughrider
When will people realize...moving a moon, dragging a planet like War World, doesn't count as a feat of strength.
I'm crazy? Listen.
The source of Superman's powers have often been discussed. There is enough to reason his power of flight, like most who don't use magic or technology, is psionics. It could never be super-leaps - that's what the Hulk does - because to stop and hold yourself in mid air is power from the mind. Flying with something heavy is letting the power from the mind take the will of the object. Even if one could physically push a moon or planet by strength, it would be impossible unless you were standing on an object of greater mass, to push off of ie. A Bigger Planet. The power that drives someone to fly through the air, is the same power used to move any object of huge mass. How much mass, depends on the willpower capability of the hero. If the Silver Surfer used the Power Cosmic to push a planet, no one would think it was a feat of strength. But it is the same principle: power from the mind, not muscle. This is something that applies to Supes, Wonder Woman, Martain Manhunter and others.


Ok, I'll bite.
Although WonderWoman's abilities are NOT psionic based but magic based (blessed by the gods and all that jazz). Anyways, let's assume your psionic viewpoint for the moment.

Couple of questions though:

Q1:

Then explain why Rogue couldn't move the earth?
She doesn't fly under magic, and definitely not through technology, thus it has to be 'psionic' in nature.
Same as Superman/Martian Manhunter.
Thus why can she not move the earth (or for that matter an Oil super-tanker ship ....actually let us stick to the supertanker since the earth is kind of a big chewtoy. Why can't Rogue simply 'surround' the ship with a psionic field and just fly off with it?)


Q2:

In fact, talking about psionics, let's concentrate on a character that not only utilizes psionic power but is also a master of the genre.
Jean Grey.
When she flies/glides she is using her mental powers, and she can also reach out and touch things with it (and move them through telekinesis, a form of psionics).
Plus she is on of the more powerful users of the mind.
Why then can she not simply place a finger on a 600,000 ton ship and fly off with it?

And if she would get 'tired' doing that then why are people like Superman, Martian Manhunter, and WonderWoman be able to do such a task with ease?

If it was all about psionics then a character like Jean Grey should be able to be one of the heavy lifters in the MU.


Q3:

Oh, and take Aquaman.
He has done feats like lifting a city block.
Was that also due to 'psionic' mental powers?
He wasn't even flying when he did so.
He is stricly a terrestrial/aquatic character (the closest he comes to flying is when he is swimming underwater), and all of his physical powers come from enhanced Atlantean physiology (he does have telepathy, but I doubt you'll claim that he uses that to cast 'psionic envelops' so he can lift matter).


Q4:

Anyways, I don't think you can say it is all psionics since if that was all that was required then characters like Jean Grey would be written differently.
However, just to play devil's advocate let me assume that what you said is true.
100% true.
And that the prime DC characters do their uber strength feats through the use of psionics.
Hence WW must be one of the most potent psionic exponents in both the DCU and Marvel Universe. Near the tippy-tip of the tippy-top (with Superman and MM also having psionic powers that make Jean Grey seem like a goo-oozing devolving uni-cellular organism).

Ok! Then why in goodness name is such a 'psionic powerhouse' being set against a character like She-Hulk?
If WonderWoman (and Superman and MM) moved the mass of the moon (including the addiitonal effort needed to decay orbit and reinstate orbit) due to her willpower, then why is someone like She-Hulk being put against a character who can move 24 Quintillion tons through power of the mind alone?


Conclusion:

Either way ....be it 'normal' strength or applied psionics, simply shows that the She-Hulk is just not a match for WonderWoman.
Not even close.

roughrider
That was an aside to the debate, and did not have to do with She-Hulk vs. Wonder Woman. As I said earlier, I side with Diana.

When I've brought this up in the Superman thread, the difference I made is that unlike a real telekenetic, Superman cannot lift an object from afar. He has to be in physical contact with it, for it to be lifted as he wills himself to lift off. As for standing on the ground and lifting something like a long ship or supertanker, this would be a physical impossibility because lifting it at any point would result in the ship cracking into pieces around you - try lifting a watermelon with the head of a pin. Even if that pin was adamantium, it would sink in. When we see it happen in a comic, we can only assume the hero is keeping it intact through some psionic force or magic enchantment. This applies to people in both Marvel and DC, if you think I'm singling out DC by the way.
Why some characters have to use more effort than others is a question to ask creators at Marvel and DC. Superman is an alien being who is power-charged by scientific means not completely explained; and has a strong mental will that can resist mental manipulation to a degree. Rogue is not strong mentally, likely never had enough will to perform a major dragging or lifting in air, but since her flying powers come from Miss Marvel, you should look at her. And, through raw power alone, we have seen Thor lift the Midgard Serpant, who mass is equal to the Earth's; and in Marvel 1602, he carries a large wooden ship through the air by enchantment of mjolnir. And pre-phoenix Jean Grey had her limits to what her mind could take.

Plus, if everything could be easily explained in comics, we wouldn't be here debating.

MuffinmanMike
Originally posted by olympian
"Quality of the feats .... Puhhhhhlease !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes picking up a giant snake isn't exactly what i would call 'quality' "

Does that means, moving Warworld isent a quality feat too? wink



"HOw does 1 month of training constitute as a skill upgrade?"

It doesnt. What she got was a physical boost not skills.

She-Hulk y'mean? Cuz one of the best H2H fighters in the Marvel universe trained her.

Still, I dunno if she's got much of a chance. WW is cosmic-level character as far as the MU goes.

Fishy 500
Originally posted by roughrider
When will people realize...moving a moon, dragging a planet like War World, doesn't count as a feat of strength.
.... This is something that applies to Supes, Wonder Woman, Martain Manhunter and others.



I agree with you ... really good post, id even say its applicable to the MM , but Wonder Woman ? .... her power is derived from Godly magic, not psionics !

Good theory , but its falls short ! smile

And yes Olymps, the War World thing is more Cooler in my oppinion ! I know that planets weigh alot , I know sweet FA about magic snakes. Dont get me started on the feat of Herc apprently 'Lifting' the world ! wink

Fishy 500
Originally posted by roughrider
That was an aside to the debate, and did not have to do with She-Hulk vs. Wonder Woman. As I said earlier, I side with Diana.

When I've brought this up in the Superman thread, the difference I made is that unlike a real telekenetic, Superman cannot lift an object from afar. He has to be in physical contact with it, for it to be lifted as he wills himself to lift off. As for standing on the ground and lifting something like a long ship or supertanker, this would be a physical impossibility because lifting it at any point would result in the ship cracking into pieces around you - try lifting a watermelon with the head of a pin. Even if that pin was adamantium, it would sink in. When we see it happen in a comic, we can only assume the hero is keeping it intact through some psionic force or magic enchantment. This applies to people in both Marvel and DC, if you think I'm singling out DC by the way.
Why some characters have to use more effort than others is a question to ask creators at Marvel and DC. Superman is an alien being who is power-charged by scientific means not completely explained; and has a strong mental will that can resist mental manipulation to a degree. Rogue is not strong mentally, likely never had enough will to perform a major dragging or lifting in air, but since her flying powers come from Miss Marvel, you should look at her. And, through raw power alone, we have seen Thor lift the Midgard Serpant, who mass is equal to the Earth's; and in Marvel 1602, he carries a large wooden ship through the air by enchantment of mjolnir. And pre-phoenix Jean Grey had her limits to what her mind could take.

Plus, if everything could be easily explained in comics, we wouldn't be here debating.


In all honesty we know the real answer; this is once again an example of BAD comic science. IMO the artist/writers intentions, are to depict these characters vast strengths. Marvel tend to use a more realistic approach, which means we rarely see such emphatic feats

But your Byrne esque theory does hold some ground. Psionics and magic are both mythical forms of energy (E.g. psionics being the more 'scientific' form of magic). Although these energies are mythical they both follow the rules of nature in that they can be increased by energy transfer from separate sources.

This is where we can answer spetznaz, question about how Supes and co can perform more impressive feats to the likes of Rogue and Jean !

Its down the energy sources available. As we know Supes and Dianna have access to near inexhaustible energy sources (The magics of the gods, and the sun) where as Jean and Rogue have comparable limited sources. The amount of energy available to Supes and Diana allow them to transfer this power into what can only be described as the 'Lifting Force'. Similar to Wickermans 'strength force' it allows them to defy the laws of physics and perform these seemingly impossible impossible feats. smile

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by spetznaz
Jean Grey.
When she flies/glides she is using her mental powers, and she can also reach out and touch things with it (and move them through telekinesis, a form of psionics).
Plus she is on of the more powerful users of the mind.
Why then can she not simply place a finger on a 600,000 ton ship and fly off with it?

And if she would get 'tired' doing that then why are people like Superman, Martian Manhunter, and WonderWoman be able to do such a task with ease?

If it was all about psionics then a character like Jean Grey should be able to be one of the heavy lifters in the MU.
Jean Grey doesn't manifest her telekinetics through touch.

The only one I know for sure has some tactile telekinesis on your list there is Superman. It explains why he can pick up giant objects and not have them crumble. And possibly increases his strength subconciously.

spetznaz
Originally posted by Fishy 500




This is where we can answer spetznaz, question about how Supes and co can perform more impressive feats to the likes of Rogue and Jean !

Its down the energy sources available. As we know Supes and Dianna have access to near inexhaustible energy sources (The magics of the gods, and the sun) where as Jean and Rogue have comparable limited sources. The amount of energy available to Supes and Diana allow them to transfer this power into what can only be described as the 'Lifting Force'. Similar to Wickermans 'strength force' it allows them to defy the laws of physics and perform these seemingly impossible impossible feats. smile

That answer should be framed.
Beautiful.
And I can live with that answer.

juggy#1
even though she hulk cant fly and all that id still say she is stronger then wonderwoman. but i like wolderwomans hooters better. big grin

Darth_Erebus
I like Shulkie. But Diana gives her the beating of a lifetime.

spetznaz
Originally posted by juggy#1
even though she hulk cant fly and all that id still say she is stronger then wonderwoman. but i like wolderwomans hooters better. big grin

That is one thing I really do not comprehend about Marvel fanboys (and girls). They automatically believe that just because a character is from MArvel he/she/it is going to win (goodness, there are threads on KMC pitting Superman vs WOLVERINE, Superman vs SPIDERMAN and the Flash versus QUICKSILVER ....and in one of the funnier threads, by a certain person who tends to post 7.34 threads a day, he actually put a certain character, who was defeated by NightCrawler and Magik, against the entire DC Universe. Note: The entire DCU!!!!).
Insane!!!!
At times it appears that the average Marvel fanboy actually does believe that certain characters (primarily Wolverine, Captain America, and to some extent Spiderman) can beat any character in DC. Many of the matchups tend to illustrate that belief.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a thread that has Captain America (and his 'unbeatable' adamantium/vibranium shield) and Spiderman (and his 'invincible' spider-sense) with help from Wolverine (and his 'woolbereen weens lol' bevy of fanboys) being put up against the entire DCU. And I bet you'd see at least 5 people seriously thinking that the 3 Marvel characters had a chance.


Goodness, She Hulk (who by the way I am very familiar with) is NOT stronger than WonderWoman, she is NOT equal in strength to Wonderwoman, and is NOT near WonderWoman in strength levels.

That is something that the majority of Marvel fanboys will actually agree with .....that She Hulk is not as strong (and definitely not stronger) than WonderWoman.

Now, I have to say that She Hulk is one of the most underappreciated Marvel characters. She is extremely strong (actually stronger than some of the more popular Marvel characters ....cough cough, are you listening Thing), and while she is not the Hulk she does approach (note: approach) her cousin's strength levels (the normal ones).

However she is NOT WonderWoman.
Diana is, simply put, on a different level.

And just because She Hulk is a Marvel character doesn't mean that she will win (as hard as that may be for a Marvel fanboy/girl to swallow)..

Juntai
Originally posted by spetznaz
That is one thing I really do not comprehend about Marvel fanboys (and girls). They automatically believe that just because a character is from MArvel he/she/it is going to win (goodness, there are threads on KMC pitting Superman vs WOLVERINE, Superman vs SPIDERMAN and the Flash versus QUICKSILVER ....and in one of the funnier threads, by a certain person who tends to post 7.34 threads a day, he actually put a certain character, who was defeated by NightCrawler and Magik, against the entire DC Universe. Note: The entire DCU!!!!).
Insane!!!!
At times it appears that the average Marvel fanboy actually does believe that certain characters (primarily Wolverine, Captain America, and to some extent Spiderman) can beat any character in DC. Many of the matchups tend to illustrate that belief.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a thread that has Captain America (and his 'unbeatable' adamantium/vibranium shield) and Spiderman (and his 'invincible' spider-sense) with help from Wolverine (and his 'woolbereen weens lol' bevy of fanboys) being put up against the entire DCU. And I bet you'd see at least 5 people seriously thinking that the 3 Marvel characters had a chance.


Goodness, She Hulk (who by the way I am very familiar with) is NOT stronger than WonderWoman, she is NOT equal in strength to Wonderwoman, and is NOT near WonderWoman in strength levels.

That is something that the majority of Marvel fanboys will actually agree with .....that She Hulk is not as strong (and definitely not stronger) than WonderWoman.

Now, I have to say that She Hulk is one of the most underappreciated Marvel characters. She is extremely strong (actually stronger than some of the more popular Marvel characters ....cough cough, are you listening Thing), and while she is not the Hulk she does approach (note: approach) her cousin's strength levels (the normal ones).

However she is NOT WonderWoman.
Diana is, simply put, on a different level.

And just because She Hulk is a Marvel character doesn't mean that she will win (as hard as that may be for a Marvel fanboy/girl to swallow).. Happy Dance

Fishy 500
Originally posted by spetznaz
That is one thing I really do not comprehend about Marvel fanboys (and girls). They automatically believe that just because a character is from MArvel he/she/it is going to win (goodness, there are threads on KMC pitting Superman vs WOLVERINE, Superman vs SPIDERMAN and the Flash versus QUICKSILVER ....and in one of the funnier threads, by a certain person who tends to post 7.34 threads a day, he actually put a certain character, who was defeated by NightCrawler and Magik, against the entire DC Universe. Note: The entire DCU!!!!).
Insane!!!!
At times it appears that the average Marvel fanboy actually does believe that certain characters (primarily Wolverine, Captain America, and to some extent Spiderman) can beat any character in DC. Many of the matchups tend to illustrate that belief.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a thread that has Captain America (and his 'unbeatable' adamantium/vibranium shield) and Spiderman (and his 'invincible' spider-sense) with help from Wolverine (and his 'woolbereen weens lol' bevy of fanboys) being put up against the entire DCU. And I bet you'd see at least 5 people seriously thinking that the 3 Marvel characters had a chance.


Goodness, She Hulk (who by the way I am very familiar with) is NOT stronger than WonderWoman, she is NOT equal in strength to Wonderwoman, and is NOT near WonderWoman in strength levels.

That is something that the majority of Marvel fanboys will actually agree with .....that She Hulk is not as strong (and definitely not stronger) than WonderWoman.

Now, I have to say that She Hulk is one of the most underappreciated Marvel characters. She is extremely strong (actually stronger than some of the more popular Marvel characters ....cough cough, are you listening Thing), and while she is not the Hulk she does approach (note: approach) her cousin's strength levels (the normal ones).

However she is NOT WonderWoman.
Diana is, simply put, on a different level.

And just because She Hulk is a Marvel character doesn't mean that she will win (as hard as that may be for a Marvel fanboy/girl to swallow)..

Mate you need to post more often ... once again another great post !!!!!!!! smile

inamilist
Originally posted by roughrider
That was an aside to the debate, and did not have to do with She-Hulk vs. Wonder Woman. As I said earlier, I side with Diana.

When I've brought this up in the Superman thread, the difference I made is that unlike a real telekenetic, Superman cannot lift an object from afar. He has to be in physical contact with it, for it to be lifted as he wills himself to lift off. As for standing on the ground and lifting something like a long ship or supertanker, this would be a physical impossibility because lifting it at any point would result in the ship cracking into pieces around you - try lifting a watermelon with the head of a pin. Even if that pin was adamantium, it would sink in. When we see it happen in a comic, we can only assume the hero is keeping it intact through some psionic force or magic enchantment. This applies to people in both Marvel and DC, if you think I'm singling out DC by the way.


i think you are falling into a trap that a lot of writers seem to of needing to rationalize the absurd ways that superpowers are transfered (i hate the totemic spiderman thing.....) The high science needed to explain how a human would have the capabilites of flight doesnt exist. Even saying telekenetic, you might as well say that there are strings from an unknown divinity holding superman in the air, no evidence exists for either, in fact, as far as i know, superman has NEVER shown any sort of telekenesis. (ill be honest, im a marvel fan boy :P)

AND about moving the moon. It is possible as a feat of strength, since the characters are able to generate thrust as they fly (ie, they can speed up mid flight) which seems to be proportionate to their strength. So long as they continued exerting said thrust at a high enough strength they would push the moon.

lol, sorry for the sort of off topic wink

Juntai
Originally posted by inamilist
i think you are falling into a trap that a lot of writers seem to of needing to rationalize the absurd ways that superpowers are transfered (i hate the totemic spiderman thing.....) The high science needed to explain how a human would have the capabilites of flight doesnt exist. Even saying telekenetic, you might as well say that there are strings from an unknown divinity holding superman in the air, no evidence exists for either, in fact, as far as i know, superman has NEVER shown any sort of telekenesis. (ill be honest, im a marvel fan boy :P)

AND about moving the moon. It is possible as a feat of strength, since the characters are able to generate thrust as they fly (ie, they can speed up mid flight) which seems to be proportionate to their strength. So long as they continued exerting said thrust at a high enough strength they would push the moon.
lol, sorry for the sort of off topic wink Superman does have telepathic powers, described in the old Man of Steel, John Byrne comics that appeared after the Crisis on Infinite Earths. He has a tk aura that surrounds his body, and he can even surround other objects with it. It was used to describe things like his suit not getting hurt when he hit with a nuke, or how he holds a building together when lifting it. And then he also has the Kryptonian Disciplines of Torqasm Vo Torqasm Rao, in which he can enter and combat on mental wavelengths.

inamilist
Originally posted by Juntai
Superman does have telepathic powers, described in the old Man of Steel, John Byrne comics that appeared after the Crisis on Infinite Earths. He has a tk aura that surrounds his body, and he can even surround other objects with it. It was used to describe things like his suit not getting hurt when he hit with a nuke, or how he holds a building together when lifting it. And then he also has the Kryptonian Disciplines of Torqasm Vo Torqasm Rao, in which he can enter and combat on mental wavelengths.

well, boy is my face red

Arahan
Originally posted by Arahan
Wondy, stronger, faster.

WW would do the same what Titannus did:

http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/6642/auts0xf.th.jpg

I am not a She-Hulk hater, I really like her much more than WW.
But she is outclassed, cruel reality. But she is definately sexier love

Quoting myself is a weird way funny. Once again Wondy would to the same to She Hulk what Titannus did and even more.

juggy#1
Originally posted by spetznaz
That is one thing I really do not comprehend about Marvel fanboys (and girls). They automatically believe that just because a character is from MArvel he/she/it is going to win (goodness, there are threads on KMC pitting Superman vs WOLVERINE, Superman vs SPIDERMAN and the Flash versus QUICKSILVER ....and in one of the funnier threads, by a certain person who tends to post 7.34 threads a day, he actually put a certain character, who was defeated by NightCrawler and Magik, against the entire DC Universe. Note: The entire DCU!!!!).
Insane!!!!
At times it appears that the average Marvel fanboy actually does believe that certain characters (primarily Wolverine, Captain America, and to some extent Spiderman) can beat any character in DC. Many of the matchups tend to illustrate that belief.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a thread that has Captain America (and his 'unbeatable' adamantium/vibranium shield) and Spiderman (and his 'invincible' spider-sense) with help from Wolverine (and his 'woolbereen weens lol' bevy of fanboys) being put up against the entire DCU. And I bet you'd see at least 5 people seriously thinking that the 3 Marvel characters had a chance.


Goodness, She Hulk (who by the way I am very familiar with) is NOT stronger than WonderWoman, she is NOT equal in strength to Wonderwoman, and is NOT near WonderWoman in strength levels.

That is something that the majority of Marvel fanboys will actually agree with .....that She Hulk is not as strong (and definitely not stronger) than WonderWoman.

Now, I have to say that She Hulk is one of the most underappreciated Marvel characters. She is extremely strong (actually stronger than some of the more popular Marvel characters ....cough cough, are you listening Thing), and while she is not the Hulk she does approach (note: approach) her cousin's strength levels (the normal ones).

However she is NOT WonderWoman.
Diana is, simply put, on a different level.

And just because She Hulk is a Marvel character doesn't mean that she will win (as hard as that may be for a Marvel fanboy/girl to swallow).. i think u wasted alot of your time typing all that BS cause i didnt read it. and im sure most people on here didnt also. well at least you tried

inamilist
Originally posted by juggy#1
i think u wasted alot of your time typing all that BS cause i didnt read it. and im sure most people on here didnt also. well at least you tried

i did

i think it was very well written smile

juggy#1
Originally posted by inamilist
i did

i think it was very well written smile i only read half and it was stupid so i didnt waist anytime reading the rest.

The Ion
Originally posted by juggy#1
i think u wasted alot of your time typing all that BS cause i didnt read it. and im sure most people on here didnt also. well at least you tried
That took less than a minute to read. You act like your time is precious.

juggy#1
Originally posted by spetznaz
That is one thing I really do not comprehend about Marvel fanboys (and girls). They automatically believe that just because a character is from MArvel he/she/it is going to win (goodness, there are threads on KMC pitting Superman vs WOLVERINE, Superman vs SPIDERMAN and the Flash versus QUICKSILVER ....and in one of the funnier threads, by a certain person who tends to post 7.34 threads a day, he actually put a certain character, who was defeated by NightCrawler and Magik, against the entire DC Universe. Note: The entire DCU!!!!).
Insane!!!!
At times it appears that the average Marvel fanboy actually does believe that certain characters (primarily Wolverine, Captain America, and to some extent Spiderman) can beat any character in DC. Many of the matchups tend to illustrate that belief.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a thread that has Captain America (and his 'unbeatable' adamantium/vibranium shield) and Spiderman (and his 'invincible' spider-sense) with help from Wolverine (and his 'woolbereen weens lol' bevy of fanboys) being put up against the entire DCU. And I bet you'd see at least 5 people seriously thinking that the 3 Marvel characters had a chance.


Goodness, She Hulk (who by the way I am very familiar with) is NOT stronger than WonderWoman, she is NOT equal in strength to Wonderwoman, and is NOT near WonderWoman in strength levels.

That is something that the majority of Marvel fanboys will actually agree with .....that She Hulk is not as strong (and definitely not stronger) than WonderWoman.

Now, I have to say that She Hulk is one of the most underappreciated Marvel characters. She is extremely strong (actually stronger than some of the more popular Marvel characters ....cough cough, are you listening Thing), and while she is not the Hulk she does approach (note: approach) her cousin's strength levels (the normal ones).

However she is NOT WonderWoman.
Diana is, simply put, on a different level.

And just because She Hulk is a Marvel character doesn't mean that she will win (as hard as that may be for a Marvel fanboy/girl to swallow).. marvel characters are more entertaining and cooler than dc. why the hell do u think they make more money.

juggy#1
Originally posted by The Ion
That took less than a minute to read. You act like your time is precious. i use my time wisely. we all use it different in our lives. not everyone is u. and thank god big grin

thesilverspider
Originally posted by juggy#1
marvel characters are more entertaining and cooler than dc. why the hell do u think they make more money.

that's not true at all

spetznaz
Originally posted by juggy#1
i think u wasted alot of your time typing all that BS cause i didnt read it. and im sure most people on here didnt also. well at least you tried

LOL.

It appears a good number read it (and moreover agreed with it).

Nice attempt at obfuscation though ....even if a tad bit at the pre-school level it did denote some effort. Even for a vestigial thinker like yourself.

The Ion
Originally posted by juggy#1
i use my time wisely. we all use it different in our lives. not everyone is u. and thank god big grin
You're posting on a messageboard. If you don't have the time to read a couple of paragraphs (i.e. one minute) maybe you should find another hobby.

juggy#1
Originally posted by The Ion
You're posting on a messageboard. If you don't have the time to read a couple of paragraphs (i.e. one minute) maybe you should find another hobby. i do have a hobby. coming on here and surfing around other sites like most people

Darth_Erebus
Originally posted by spetznaz
That is one thing I really do not comprehend about Marvel fanboys (and girls). They automatically believe that just because a character is from MArvel he/she/it is going to win (goodness, there are threads on KMC pitting Superman vs WOLVERINE, Superman vs SPIDERMAN and the Flash versus QUICKSILVER ....and in one of the funnier threads, by a certain person who tends to post 7.34 threads a day, he actually put a certain character, who was defeated by NightCrawler and Magik, against the entire DC Universe. Note: The entire DCU!!!!).
Insane!!!!
At times it appears that the average Marvel fanboy actually does believe that certain characters (primarily Wolverine, Captain America, and to some extent Spiderman) can beat any character in DC. Many of the matchups tend to illustrate that belief.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a thread that has Captain America (and his 'unbeatable' adamantium/vibranium shield) and Spiderman (and his 'invincible' spider-sense) with help from Wolverine (and his 'woolbereen weens lol' bevy of fanboys) being put up against the entire DCU. And I bet you'd see at least 5 people seriously thinking that the 3 Marvel characters had a chance.




However she is NOT WonderWoman.
Diana is, simply put, on a different level.

And just because She Hulk is a Marvel character doesn't mean that she will win (as hard as that may be for a Marvel fanboy/girl to swallow)..


What you say is true but there are unrealistic fanboys on both sides, especially when it comes to pre crisis superman. There are those fanboys who say he can beat the Sky Fathers or even the likes of Galactus. Simply put...that is utter crap.

roughrider
Originally posted by spetznaz
That is one thing I really do not comprehend about Marvel fanboys (and girls). They automatically believe that just because a character is from MArvel he/she/it is going to win (goodness, there are threads on KMC pitting Superman vs WOLVERINE, Superman vs SPIDERMAN and the Flash versus QUICKSILVER ....and in one of the funnier threads, by a certain person who tends to post 7.34 threads a day, he actually put a certain character, who was defeated by NightCrawler and Magik, against the entire DC Universe. Note: The entire DCU!!!!).
Insane!!!!
At times it appears that the average Marvel fanboy actually does believe that certain characters (primarily Wolverine, Captain America, and to some extent Spiderman) can beat any character in DC. Many of the matchups tend to illustrate that belief.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a thread that has Captain America (and his 'unbeatable' adamantium/vibranium shield) and Spiderman (and his 'invincible' spider-sense) with help from Wolverine (and his 'woolbereen weens lol' bevy of fanboys) being put up against the entire DCU. And I bet you'd see at least 5 people seriously thinking that the 3 Marvel characters had a chance.


Goodness, She Hulk (who by the way I am very familiar with) is NOT stronger than WonderWoman, she is NOT equal in strength to Wonderwoman, and is NOT near WonderWoman in strength levels.

That is something that the majority of Marvel fanboys will actually agree with .....that She Hulk is not as strong (and definitely not stronger) than WonderWoman.

Now, I have to say that She Hulk is one of the most underappreciated Marvel characters. She is extremely strong (actually stronger than some of the more popular Marvel characters ....cough cough, are you listening Thing), and while she is not the Hulk she does approach (note: approach) her cousin's strength levels (the normal ones).

However she is NOT WonderWoman.
Diana is, simply put, on a different level.

And just because She Hulk is a Marvel character doesn't mean that she will win (as hard as that may be for a Marvel fanboy/girl to swallow)..

The Marvel mutants have VERY hardcore fans, that made their titles the most best-selling ones in the world for decades. Fans can get unrealistic, especially for Wolverine, who because of his killer atitude, unbreakable skeleton and super-healing, is put against FAR more powerful foes because he can survive a lot, and would fight anyone. But you find them in both Marvel and DC. Look at the Batman fans, who think Bruce can beat ANYONE with prep time, or the Superman fans who think Clark could kill God, pre or post crisis!

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by juggy#1
i think u wasted alot of your time typing all that BS cause i didnt read it. and im sure most people on here didnt also. well at least you tried That assumes you're being actually capable of reading it.
Originally posted by juggy#1
i only read the monosyllabic words and I am relatively stupid so couldn't read the rest. There that makes more sense.

LethalFemme
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That assumes you're being actually capable of reading it.
There that makes more sense.

you don't like him do you? lol

inamilist
Originally posted by juggy#1

i only read the monosyllabic words and I am relatively stupid so couldn't read the rest.

that made me laugh like this

tee hehehe

juggy#1
Originally posted by thesilverspider
that's not true at all yes niger it is true. y do u think theres more comicbooks and more movies coming out today.

spetznaz

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by juggy#1
yes niger it is true. y do u think theres more comicbooks and more movies coming out today. Because the mentally retarded will look at anything shiny. You being case-in-point.

Fishy 500
Originally posted by inamilist
i think you are falling into a trap that a lot of writers seem to of needing to rationalize the absurd ways that superpowers are transfered (i hate the totemic spiderman thing.....) The high science needed to explain how a human would have the capabilites of flight doesnt exist. Even saying telekenetic, you might as well say that there are strings from an unknown divinity holding superman in the air, no evidence exists for either, in fact, as far as i know, superman has NEVER shown any sort of telekenesis. (ill be honest, im a marvel fan boy :P)

AND about moving the moon. It is possible as a feat of strength, since the characters are able to generate thrust as they fly (ie, they can speed up mid flight) which seems to be proportionate to their strength. So long as they continued exerting said thrust at a high enough strength they would push the moon.

lol, sorry for the sort of off topic wink

Another great post .... mann this becoming the best thread ever !

'unknown divinity holding superman in the air,'

Higher Dimensions kind of act like this .... wink

Fishy 500
Originally posted by inamilist
i did

i think it was very well written smile

Agreed !!!!!!!!!!! smile

Fishy 500
Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
What you say is true but there are unrealistic fanboys on both sides, especially when it comes to pre crisis superman. There are those fanboys who say he can beat the Sky Fathers or even the likes of Galactus. Simply put...that is utter crap.

Hmmmmm i wonder of whom you are talking about .... shifty

Arahan
Aunt May is from Marvel she could kick Supes ass laughing out loud

The idea that Spidermans powers are totemistic sounds good to me.
I like the idea, Offfers some intersting new stories. (i hope)

And I really tried to bring you guys back to topic....

Fishy 500
Originally posted by Arahan
Aunt May is from Marvel she could kick Supes ass laughing out loud

The idea that Spidermans powers are totemistic sounds good to me.
I like the idea, Offfers some intersting new stories. (i hope)

And I really tried to bring you guys back to topic....

Appreciated ! smile

Cap'n Happy
I'm 45- probably read my first comic before most of you were born. One thing I've learned over the years is that comics are a lot like rock-n-roll... you cant take it too seriously 'cause after all, it's only rock-n-roll. Then again, you better take it damm seriously, cause God gave rock-n-roll to you (as KISS has taught us). The trick is to know which attitude to take, and when. Ex: when you see characters (even power-houses like Supes, MM, and Wonder Woman) move the frick'n moon, you need to take it with a grain of salt. Just because a thing happens in a comic doesn't make it "true". The "truth" of comic characters takes time to accrue and gel. The "truth" is that which is at the core of the character, that which has been most consistant over the long haul. When a hack writer shows things like moving the moon, blowing out a star with super breath... you can pretty much dismiss it, unless we're talking about cosmic/magic practioners of the very highest order. And Wonder Woman is neither. What she is is is a very powerfull, very formidable, hero- one who has traditionaly been snow to have about the fourth of the strength of Superman (ok, I'll give her the benifit of the doubt and make it half of Big Blue's strength)- this is no insult; half of Superman is still pretty awsome. But lifting oil tankers with ease? Moving the moon? Please.
As I see it, She Hulk is maybe a hair stronger than Wonder Woman, but way out classed by Diana's speed and combat skills. Throw in the bracelets, lasso, et al, Wondy cleans her clock after a short bout. And I didn't have to resort to grossly distorting her power to come to the correct conslusion either.

Mr. Slippyfist
I have... absolutely no idea what you were talking about there...

iceman24567
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I have... absolutely no idea what you were talking about there... I couldn't bring myself to read that and the fact that he's as old as mother pretty much makes me not feel bad about it no offense Cap'n plus i think Diana is stronger than She-Hulk.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by iceman24567
I couldn't bring myself to read that and the fact that he's as old as mother pretty much makes me not feel bad about it no offense Cap'n plus i think Diana is stronger than She-Hulk. I read half... and then skimmed over the rest.

Cap'n Happy
What I... meant there was this: most of these posts had Wonder Woman being "near cosmic level" in power. I think this is ridiculous. Historically, she's never been displayed at this power level. I don't care about a comic book from a few weeks ago. I don't care what a current story line says (story lines come and go, and bad story lines are discreetly forgotten about all the time). Not everything that happens in a comic book sticks, and becomes part of the cannon. Superman once had "super ventriliquisom- he could not only imitate any persons voice, he could "throw it" half way around the world if he wanted to. I don't see him using this power lately. Big changes (Wonder Woman being cosmic level power) have to be true over a long period of time, and it has to be explicitly stated that there has been a major change in the character- and that change has to stick, or it's not "true". That's all I'm saying. If you still don't follow... well buddy, I don't know what to tell you.

Draco69
Originally posted by Cap'n Happy
What I... meant there was this: most of these posts had Wonder Woman being "near cosmic level" in power. I think this is ridiculous. Historically, she's never been displayed at this power level. I don't care about a comic book from a few weeks ago. I don't care what a current story line says (story lines come and go, and bad story lines are discreetly forgotten about all the time). Not everything that happens in a comic book sticks, and becomes part of the cannon. Superman once had "super ventriliquisom- he could not only imitate any persons voice, he could "throw it" half way around the world if he wanted to. I don't see him using this power lately. Big changes (Wonder Woman being cosmic level power) have to be true over a long period of time, and it has to be explicitly stated that there has been a major change in the character- and that change has to stick, or it's not "true". That's all I'm saying. If you still don't follow... well buddy, I don't know what to tell you.

Ladies and gentleman, this is what is called "midlife crisis".

We are witnessing the most extreme case of midlife crisis but it's best we ignore him until he snaps out of it.

Oh and if by "long period of time" you mean like 60 years than sure.

Inhuman
Page crumble and trash toss

gogogadgetgo
anyway, womder woman wins through bfr

The Pict
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I have... absolutely no idea what you were talking about there...

I only really understood this (untrue) part:

"As I see it, She Hulk is maybe a hair stronger than Wonder Woman"

WW wins with ease.

horrorwolf
I say Wonderwoman takes the majority based on speed advantages and pure fighting knowlege.

However feats like helping move the moon and other BS is based on flight abilities which doesnt count. Its like when Superman moves massive meteors with flight but can barely manage to punch Grundy down the block. It's not a physical strength feat but inertia-based on flight capabilities.

*T*
Originally posted by horrorwolf
I say Wonderwoman takes this based on speed advantages and pure fighting knowlege.

However feats like helping move the moon and other BS is based on flight abilities which doesnt count. Its like when Superman moves massive meteors with flight but can barely manage to punch Grundy down the block. It's not a physical strength feat but inertia-based on flight capabilities. ...

Anyway WW wins without speed/flight anyway.

horrorwolf
Originally posted by *T*
...

Anyway WW wins without speed/flight anyway.

Thats what I said. stick out tongue
again, due to speed and fighting experience.

starlock
Originally posted by Cap'n Happy
I'm 45- probably read my first comic before most of you were born. One thing I've learned over the years is that comics are a lot like rock-n-roll... you cant take it too seriously 'cause after all, it's only rock-n-roll. Then again, you better take it damm seriously, cause God gave rock-n-roll to you (as KISS has taught us). The trick is to know which attitude to take, and when. Ex: when you see characters (even power-houses like Supes, MM, and Wonder Woman) move the frick'n moon, you need to take it with a grain of salt. Just because a thing happens in a comic doesn't make it "true". The "truth" of comic characters takes time to accrue and gel. The "truth" is that which is at the core of the character, that which has been most consistant over the long haul. When a hack writer shows things like moving the moon, blowing out a star with super breath... you can pretty much dismiss it, unless we're talking about cosmic/magic practioners of the very highest order. And Wonder Woman is neither. What she is is is a very powerfull, very formidable, hero- one who has traditionaly been snow to have about the fourth of the strength of Superman (ok, I'll give her the benifit of the doubt and make it half of Big Blue's strength)- this is no insult; half of Superman is still pretty awsome. But lifting oil tankers with ease? Moving the moon? Please.
As I see it, She Hulk is maybe a hair stronger than Wonder Woman, but way out classed by Diana's speed and combat skills. Throw in the bracelets, lasso, et al, Wondy cleans her clock after a short bout. And I didn't have to resort to grossly distorting her power to come to the correct conslusion either.

WW for the win

Im not as old(36) and i am a huge kiss fan, so you get my support lol
I like your thinking it definetly adds some logic and down to earth reasoning, id like to see more of your views in other threads....keep it up and dont let the peanut gallery get to you

severance
Originally posted by roughrider
When will people realize...moving a moon, dragging a planet like War World, doesn't count as a feat of strength.
I'm crazy? Listen.
The source of Superman's powers have often been discussed. There is enough to reason his power of flight, like most who don't use magic or technology, is psionics. It could never be super-leaps - that's what the Hulk does - because to stop and hold yourself in mid air is power from the mind. Flying with something heavy is letting the power from the mind take the will of the object. Even if one could physically push a moon or planet by strength, it would be impossible unless you were standing on an object of greater mass, to push off of ie. A Bigger Planet. The power that drives someone to fly through the air, is the same power used to move any object of huge mass. How much mass, depends on the willpower capability of the hero. If the Silver Surfer used the Power Cosmic to push a planet, no one would think it was a feat of strength. But it is the same principle: power from the mind, not muscle. This is something that applies to Supes, Wonder Woman, Martain Manhunter and others.

Back to this...I haven't seen She-Hulk since her strength and skill got a good upgrade, but I think Diana's speed on the ground could still give her an edge to win most matchups.

TOTALLY SECOND cheers

PRAYERRUN
it would end up being some sort of wrestling match with those rules. Tough for me too even think about...

Mindset
mud wrestling, first one to get nude wins

Inhuman
WW wins

Cap'n Happy
I change my opinion.... since it IS likely to end up a wrestling match, the real winner is the viewing public.
P.S. - thanks for the support Starlock. It's rough in here... those bully's are mean!

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