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I've just found out that the guardians are apparently beyond the Elders of the universe, and Krona didn't have trouble defeating Galactus. My point is this guy defeated the guardians like they where nothing. One must also take into consideration that Jeans ability to use the nearly omnipotent phoenix force is questionable. Defeats such as Jggg suggests that G.S.'s theory about Phoenix and Jean being one and the same is unfound. So who wins, YOU decide?



Sorry about the doggy Spelling of Parallax !

Hal wins


*puts on disguise*In attempt to avoid the wrath of phoenix's boy toy.

Originally posted by thesilverspider
Hal wins


*puts on disguise*In attempt to avoid the wrath of phoenix's boy toy.

I wonder where the ...... 'phoenix's boy toy.' is ? I havn't seen him in ages .... He's been drinking alot recently and i think New years may have finally killed his liver ..... shifty

The voters on this site across the internet believe that Parallax can indeed absorb the Phoenix force.

http://www.electricferret.com/fights/cosmicpower.htm over 1100 voted so...... opinions vary

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
The voters on this site across the internet believe that Parallax can indeed absorb the Phoenix force.

http://www.electricferret.com/fights/cosmicpower.htm over 1100 voted so...... opinions vary

Whats Zero hour like .... I still havn't managed to get it yet .... I've also kind of been put off by Our World at War , which really sucks balls !

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Whats Zero hour like .... I still havn't managed to get it yet .... I've also kind of been put off by Our World at War , which really sucks balls !

Zero hour sucked as well imo

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Zero hour sucked as well imo

The crisis seems a vast improvement !

Originally posted by Fishy 500
The crisis seems a vast improvement !

Crisis is excellent DC are really trying with it. They have improved quality control lately.

crisis is one of the best written books out and the ultimates is still a great all around book aswell.

Yea zero hour sux balls.

Parallax 10/10

what crisis there are alot of crisis

Originally posted by Fishy 500
One must also take into consideration that Jeans ability to use the nearly omnipotent phoenix force is questionable. Defeats such as Jggg suggests that G.S.'s theory about Phoenix and Jean being one and the same is unfound. So who wins, YOU decide?

As long as all the times Corrigan or Hal have been defeated brings into question their ability to use the Spectre Force then thats cool.

How does jggg suggest that Jean and Phoenix arent one? Im thinking you said that just for the sake of it. Im also thinking that you havent read the latest bio son cos if you have a lil look at the bottom of the page you'll see my theory has now become comic book fact.




Good day to you

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As long as all the times Corrigan or Hal have been defeated brings into question their ability to use the Spectre Force then thats cool.

How does jggg suggest that Jean and Phoenix arent one? Im thinking you said that just for the sake of it. Im also thinking that you havent read the latest bio son cos if you have a lil look at the bottom of the page you'll see my theory has now become comic book fact.




Good day to you

And, who the **** are you Sir ? I never seen you round here before ?

There was this guy who used to talk like you, and his name was G.S. .. but know one has seen him for weeks. We believe he finally died of Alcohol poisoning.

Do you mean the latest X-men HB, I own it and have read it on many ocassions, she no ,onger is the power of god, is she ?

Originally posted by Fishy 500
And, who the **** are you Sir ? I never seen you round here before ?

There was this guy who used to talk like you, and his name was G.S. .. but know one has seen him for weeks. We believe he finally died of Alcohol poisoning.

Do you mean the latest X-men HB, I own it and have read it on many ocassions, she no ,onger is the power of god, is she ?

There has never been any mention of God in the handbooks only parallels drawn on panel so the latest handbook didnt change a thing.

Just like theres no mention of a God connection with LT whatsoever.

I thought your issue was over Jean and Phoenix being one? Thats certainly what your initial post suggests. I take it my post dealt with said query? Youre welcome.

where WAS it established that lt does the work of toaa? was there a specific issue where it says that or where something to that effect is implied?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
There has never been any mention of God in the handbooks only parallels drawn on panel so the latest handbook didnt change a thing.

Just like theres no mention of a God connection with LT whatsoever.

I thought your issue was over Jean and Phoenix being one? Thats certainly what your initial post suggests. I take it my post dealt with said query? Youre welcome.

.... This will be continued L8r... I dont have 5 hours available and i need to do some research !

Originally posted by leonidas
where WAS it established that lt does the work of toaa? was there a specific issue where it says that or where something to that effect is implied?

It was established as the energys of the Unborn or something not TOAA

Originally posted by Fishy 500
It was established as the energys of the Unborn or something not TOAA
He's asking about the LT, not Phoenix.

Originally posted by Fishy 500
It was established as the energys of the Unborn or something not TOAA

Nope it was established as the energies of creation, it uses up the energies of the unborn by taking on a sentience within the closed universe system Marvel uses. Big diference.

Read the Marvel Hierarchy thread so you can see the issues from which those words came from.

Originally posted by leonidas
where WAS it established that lt does the work of toaa? was there a specific issue where it says that or where something to that effect is implied?

Speak up!!! Im tired of these double standards

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
He's asking about the LT, not Phoenix.


no

..... 'where WAS it established that lt does the work of toaa? was there a specific issue where it says that or where something to that effect is implied?'

i WAS asking about living tribunal . . .

Originally posted by leonidas


i WAS asking about living tribunal . . .

I guess hes still recovering from New Years.

I think it was in WTIW 1 where LT tells Warlock that his power comes from one greater, or something to that effect. I don't have access to the issue since I'm at work.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope it was established as the energies of creation, it uses up the energies of the unborn by taking on a sentience within the closed universe system Marvel uses. Big diference.

Read the Marvel Hierarchy thread so you can see the issues from which those words came from.


Im not reading it, cos its about 20 pages long ....

The power of creation need not be the power of TOAA / GOD !

Contigency can be looped rather than a straightline !

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
I think it was in WTIW 1 where LT tells Warlock that his power comes from one greater, or something to that effect. I don't have access to the issue since I'm at work.

What does the abbreviation stand for? I can probably post some scans by 2morrow if u let me know.

Im just curious as to why people readily accept that LT works for God. Where has it ever said that?

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
I think it was in WTIW 1 where LT tells Warlock that his power comes from one greater, or something to that effect. I don't have access to the issue since I'm at work.

'I don't have access to the issue since I'm at work.'

For the sake of whoever you working for, i think you should go back to work

only JK

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Im not reading it, cos its about 20 pages long ....

The power of creation need not be the power of TOAA / GOD !

Contigency can be looped rather than a straightline !

Im going by the parallels drawn on panel however they just like the LT/God connection are not conclusive so its cool.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im going by the parallels drawn on panel however they just like the LT/God connection are not conclusive so its cool.

The TOAA need not be god !

He may just be the TOAA !

I don't think you quite understood me :

Ok Big crunch = Big bang

Unborn = eventual big Crunch

Creation = Big Bang

You therefore have a loop !

Originally posted by Fishy 500
The TOAA need not be god !

He may just be the TOAA !

I don't think you quite understood me :

Ok Big crunch = Big bang

Unborn = eventual big Crunch

Creation = Big Bang

You therefore have a loop !

Big Crunch eventually results in the Big Bang yeah ok but how does the energies allocated for the unborn equal the Big Crunch and what point are you trying to make?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Big Crunch eventually results in the Big Bang yeah ok but how does the energies allocated for the unborn equal the Big Crunch and what point are you trying to make?

Well the unborn is kind of a metaphor of the future .... The big crunch is the last thing that will happen in the future ..... Big Crunch restarts creation via a big bang .... IMO Phoenix/White room maybe responsible for this process therefore is not part of the TOAA / God

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Well the unborn is kind of a metaphor of the future .... The big crunch is the last thing that will happen in the future ..... Big Crunch restarts creation via a big bang .... IMO Phoenix/White room maybe responsible for this process therefore is not part of the TOAA / God

How would co-ordinating that process mean that?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
How would co-ordinating that process mean that?

Hand book cleary states that she has the power of creation and she uses the energies of the unborn ! My theory validates with this !

This will end badly...

Originally posted by illadelph12
This will end badly...

I know .... telll G.S., i dont think his fagile little mind can take it

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Hand book cleary states that she has the power of creation and she uses the energies of the unborn ! My theory validates with this !

Nope the handbook clearly states that when it takes on a sentience in the closed universe it uses up the energy allocated for future life. It isnt dependent on it. Theres a difference. By all accounts thats energy Phoenix feeds into the universe anyway so it would be effectively looping the power back to itself.

Also, you seem to have forgotten about the Phoenix Consciousness of the White Hot Room.

Your theory validates not a thing.

Originally posted by Fishy 500
I know .... telll G.S., i dont think his fagile little mind can take it

Who said he was talking for me?

Its my guess that hes referring to when Whirly comes and me and him start arguing

GS are you gonna enter the tourney?

Originally posted by thesilverspider
GS are you gonna enter the tourney?

Im never around enough these days

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope the handbook clearly states that when it takes on a sentience in the closed universe it uses up the energy allocated for future life. It isnt dependent on it. Theres a difference. By all accounts thats energy Phoenix feeds into the universe anyway so it would be effectively looping the power back to itself.

Also, you seem to have forgotten about the Phoenix Consciousness of the White Hot Room.

Your theory validates not a thing.

"By all accounts thats energy Phoenix feeds into the universe anyway so it would be effectively looping the power back to itself."

Im confused .... do you agree with me about the above ?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im never around enough these days

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im never around enough these days
if you would join more of your rivals would most likely follow.........

Originally posted by thesilverspider
if you would join more of your rivals would most likely follow.........

I wished id done the last one !

Originally posted by Fishy 500
"By all accounts thats energy Phoenix feeds into the universe anyway so it would be effectively looping the power back to itself."

Im confused .... do you agree with me about the above ?



Im confused as to what your theeory entails so i wasnt quite sure how to answer it. Either way have a skim read of that hierarchy thread and you'll see my theory backed by the comics the handbook takes its info from. I cant be bothered to explain it here again but its slightly modified from what you know. Check it out you lazy b*stard!!!

Originally posted by thesilverspider
if you would join more of your rivals would most likely follow.........

Ok i'll think about it. How does it work?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ok i'll think about it. How does it work?
we're working on it but no phoenix sorry........

Originally posted by thesilverspider
we're working on it but no phoenix sorry........

Damn im not that bad lol.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im confused as to what your theeory entails so i wasnt quite sure how to answer it. Either way have a skim read of that hierarchy thread and you'll see my theory backed by the comics the handbook takes its info from. I cant be bothered to explain it here again but its slightly modified from what you know. Check it out you lazy b*stard!!!



Oh cumon everyone else makes the effort to understand youre 'crazy' theory ... atleast give mine a chance !

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Damn im not that bad lol.

well aint you phoenix's boy toy?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Damn im not that bad lol.

shifty

tell me more of this theory o fishy one . . .

Originally posted by thesilverspider
well aint you phoenix's boy toy?

If phoenix' means Cresh , then you are quite correct !

Originally posted by Fishy 500


Oh cumon everyone else makes the effort to understand youre 'crazy' theory ... atleast give mine a chance !

Mines different to what youre thinking and its main points are actually stated word for word on panel so have a browse of that thread before you waste your time explaining.

Originally posted by leonidas
tell me more of this theory o fishy one . . .

I never thought you'd ever sink so low!!

Originally posted by Fishy 500
If phoenix' means Cresh , then you are quite correct !
GS is a swinger ............

Originally posted by thesilverspider
GS is a swinger ............

A bit too excited for my liking mate

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I never thought you'd ever sink so low!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
A bit too excited for my liking mate
oh you like the layed back types............

Originally posted by thesilverspider
oh you like the layed back types............

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


................

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


Poor Chreshy !

Serioulsy , G.S. you always do this to my threads

No more mindless bashing, this time !

Originally posted by leonidas


i WAS asking about living tribunal . . .

Infinity Watch #1. LT held a trial. He said to Warlock w/ IG that "I represent One All Above...even you."

Posters coin that term TOAA from LT's words and other deities refer to LT's master.

So basically posters started saying LT is gods servant based on this:

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/311/warlockinfinitywatch01042jl.th.jpg

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/4209/warlockinfinitywatch01087by.th.jpg

The words TOAA arent even mentioned let alone god. If only id known sooner. Thats one helluva weak case.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So basically posters started saying LT is gods servant based on this:

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/311/warlockinfinitywatch01042jl.th.jpg

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/4209/warlockinfinitywatch01087by.th.jpg

The words TOAA arent even mentioned let alone god. If only id known sooner. Thats one helluva weak case. Seems he may just be the physical manifestation of nuetrality.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So basically posters started saying LT is gods servant based on this:

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/311/warlockinfinitywatch01042jl.th.jpg

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/4209/warlockinfinitywatch01087by.th.jpg

The words TOAA arent even mentioned let alone god. If only id known sooner. Thats one helluva weak case.

Where the **** is this from .... and what does Eternity say ... It kind of looks like the Infinity Gauntlet.

Does the TOAA even exist .... I reckon he represents the Phoenix

phoenix is toaa period........

Originally posted by thesilverspider
phoenix is toaa period........

Thats it im getting Whirly

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Where the **** is this from .... and what does Eternity say ... It kind of looks like the Infinity Gauntlet.

Does the TOAA even exist .... I reckon he represents the Phoenix

If you'd read the thread properly it would have been obvious to you that it was from Infinity Watch.

So all we know is that LT serves a power greater than Eternity or the IG. Who said that was god?

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Thats it im getting Whirly

ok superman is there.........

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you read the thread properly it would have been obvious to you that it was from Infinity Watch.

So all we know is that LT serves a power greater than Eternity or the IG. Who said that was god?

Whats the infinity watch ?

Who said that was god?

Im not suprised .... It would be very unlike marvel to claim him to be God !

Originally posted by thesilverspider

ok superman is there.........

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Whats the infinity watch ?

Just a big marvel comic series from the 90's. Its cool i wouldnt expect you to have heard about it.

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Who said that was god?

Virtually everyone on this forum

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Im not suprised .... It would be very unlike marvel to claim him to be God !


Indeed. They usually only drop suggestions or draw parallels but theres none of that here.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Just a big marvel comic series from the 90's. Its cool i wouldnt expect you to have heard about it.



'Its cool i wouldnt expect you to have heard about it.'


yawn

"Virtually everyone on this forum"

But didn't you do that with the phoenix

Originally posted by Fishy 500

"Virtually everyone on this forum"

But didn't you do that with the phoenix




My last post gives a hint as to why the cases are completely different. Have a lil read back.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So basically posters started saying LT is gods servant based on this:

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/311/warlockinfinitywatch01042jl.th.jpg

That's what most poster base it on. But I don't have all of LT's appearance so I can't say all of them do.

Um why should GOD and TOAA even be mentioned? TOAA is what was given to the being above all, LT's master, by readers and posters. It'd be like me asking you to find the exact term of Rune King Thor or Trion Juggernaut. Both Rune King Thor and Trion Juggernaut were made up by readers, but they do exist.

As for GOD, Marvel doesn't acknowledge GOD. They talk alot about gods and use the term GOD like they use omnipotence, all powerful, and unstoppable. Heck, Thanos and Warlock with the IG have been mentioned as "GOD." Agamotto, Oshtur, Mordo, and Strange have all been mentioned as "omnipotent" as well.

TOAA is the top of the hierarchy, hence posters equate it as God. One guy, all powerful, supreme being = GOD according to posters.

GOD is NOT Marvel top being. TOAA (LT's master) is Marvel's top being. GOD and TOAA are one in the same - a Supreme being who above all others.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/4209/warlockinfinitywatch01087by.th.jpg

If only id known sooner. Thats one helluva weak case.

How is it a weak case? X-Men is more credible than Infinity Watch, The End, Dr. Strange, and IG series?

Secondly, you do see the Stranger don't you? Stranger is one of many deities making such a claiming. This is the same Stranger you based your White Crown arguement on.

But see, it's not just Stranger, but also the claims of Eternity, Galactus, Watcher, Ziran of the Celestials, Order, Chaos, Love, Hate, and most importantly - LT.

Originally posted by Beyonder

GOD and TOAA are one in the same - a Supreme being who above all others...

According to readers/posters I know.

Originally posted by Beyonder


TOAA is the top of the hierarchy, hence posters equate it as God. One guy, all powerful, supreme being = GOD according to posters.

What is this based on? LT says he represents forces that dwarf the IG and Eternity. Thats all. Not only is it poorly supported to equate TOAA to god based on those two scenes but since Infinity Watch we've had on panel showings of powers that have been shown to be greater than LT and yet no connection between those powers and LT was ever mentioned so where does it say the so called OAA is the top of the hierarchy? Theres no evidence for that.

Originally posted by Beyonder
GOD is NOT Marvel top being. TOAA (LT's master) is Marvel's top being. GOD and TOAA are one in the same - a Supreme being who above all others.

Bit of a contradiction there but no worries i get what youre trying to say. I just wanna see an end to all of this talk of LT working for Marvels supreme being because until theres something far more conclusive stated on panel its just unsupported opinion.

Originally posted by Beyonder
How is it a weak case? X-Men is more credible than Infinity Watch, The End, Dr. Strange, and IG series?

Secondly, you do see the Stranger don't you? Stranger is one of many deities making such a claiming. This is the same Stranger you based your White Crown arguement on.

Who's talking about X-men here and what does the comparative credibility of these titles got to do with anything when Infinity Watch has no evidence or drawn parallels to start with?

Yes i see the Stranger there but what does his appearance have to do with anything? He doesnt say anything to support your case well. Noone on panel does. I certainly dont remember him being an integral part to the Crown argument. I think youve got your wires crossed my friend. Different point.

Originally posted by Beyonder
But see, it's not just Stranger, but also the claims of Eternity, Galactus, Watcher, Ziran of the Celestials, Order, Chaos, Love, Hate, and most importantly - LT.

Theyre agreeing wiv the idea that LT works for a power greater than themselves and the IG. Whats your point? Nothing conclusive about that.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What is this based on? LT says he represents forces that dwarf the IG and Eternity. Thats all. Not only is it poorly supported to equate TOAA to god based on those two scenes but since Infinity Watch we've had on panel showings of powers that have been shown to be greater than LT and yet no connection between those powers and LT was ever mentioned so where does it say the so called OAA is the top of the hierarchy? Theres no evidence for that.

That's what I base it on. Again, I myself don't have all LT appearances but most posters some to reference this as proof. LT has always been as servant of a higher being.

I get why you want proof of such a person but that's what TOAA is. There's not another being other than LT and his master/forces he represents/powers from on high, powers that dwarf guys like Eternity, Galactus, Death, Stranger, Watcher, Celestial, and most Marvel deities.

LT is Marvel's top character/deity. TOAA/GOD is not mentioned, other than terms and phrases given about this being or power that LT represents. What ever this power is, LT serves it. Posters refer to this being or power as TOAA. Why? LT serves him/it, and LT himself guards over the multiverse.

Even when Thanos had the Heart, LT was the top deity there.



See, that's the problem. Marvel has many GOD references. At one time or another, your fav hero or villain have ran into that "Supreme Being."

But when it comes down to it, LT is at the top of the hierarchy. There's lots of story and characters statement to back up LT's position in the hierarchy. Like it or not, LT himself is the judge or the multiverse. He's more consistent than most of your Marvel's yearly/month "Supreme Being."

He is what he is. And according to him and many others, he is only a servant or a higher power/force. Unless they demote LT, he'll always be a universe being above all the rest. And according to him and other characters, he's only a servant.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Who's talking about X-men here and what does the comparative credibility of these titles got to do with anything when Infinity Watch has no evidence or drawn parallels to start with?

That the X-title itself isn't stacking up against 4 titles. One source V. 4?



Did you read the narration? Walock talked about "the others" which includes Stranger.

And what was the White Crown argument, I forget. Stranger sought to gain the PF to become supreme being. And an image of what according to Stranger would happen: the other abstracts would bow/pray to him after he had the PF.

Stranger's words against Stranger, Eternity, Galactus, Eon, LT, Ziran, Chaos, Order, and the Watcher's words.

And guess what? Warlock stomped them left and right. LT with a snap of his finger brought order to the court where Eternity, Galactus, Eon, Stranger, and a bunch of others couldn't. Even Warlock was shocked.

Slice how you want, LT is far above all the other beings. Yet even he acknowledges he serves forces greater then him.

Originally posted by Beyonder
That's what I base it on. Again, I myself don't have all LT appearances but most posters some to reference this as proof. LT has always been as servant of a higher being.

Well thats far from conclusive and the notion isnt sufficiently supported in comics for you to talk of it as canon. You cant say LT is the servant of the supreme being because all we know is LT serves a power greater than himself and the IG. There are a number of beings/power sources which debatably make this cut so you cant equate his master to the supreme being, you can only say its suggested (albeit by one comic)


Originally posted by Beyonder
I get why you want proof of such a person but that's what TOAA is. There's not another being other than LT and his master/forces he represents/powers from on high, powers that dwarf guys like Eternity, Galactus, Death, Stranger, Watcher, Celestial, and most Marvel deities.

There are many beings Beyonder what on earth are you talking about. There are many beings/forces the Infinites, the Phoenix Force, The Starbrand and HOTU.


Originally posted by Beyonder
LT is Marvel's top character/deity. TOAA/GOD is not mentioned, other than terms and phrases given about this being or power that LT represents. What ever this power is, LT serves it. Posters refer to this being or power as TOAA. Why? LT serves him/it, and LT himself guards over the multiverse.

Not good enough to equate LTs master to the supreme being. You can say its suggested however its not fact.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Even when Thanos had the Heart, LT was the top deity there.

Out of the beings there LT was indeed "top of the food chain", however he supposedly represents a power greater than himself or the IG, the HOTU was just that and yet no connection was forged between that power and either LT or his master. With that in mind how can you go by just that early 90's scene and present the idea that LT is linked to the supreme being as fact? Im sorry B you really cant.





Originally posted by Beyonder
But when it comes down to it, LT is at the top of the hierarchy. There's lots of story and characters statement to back up LT's position in the hierarchy. Like it or not, LT himself is the judge or the multiverse. He's more consistent than most of your Marvel's yearly/month "Supreme Being."

But thats the thing though B we have had on panel powers which have been shown to humble LT (Phoenix in X-men Forever and HOTU) or disregard his judgements (Korvac) so you cant use the point that LT is the top power who himself serves a higher power to present your opinion as fact.

Originally posted by Beyonder
He is what he is. And according to him and many others, he is only a servant or a higher power/force. Unless they demote LT, he'll always be a universe being above all the rest. And according to him and other characters, he's only a servant.

Noones denying LT's role in the multiverse however that is not enough to equate his master to the supreme being. So basically because hes one of the most powerful forces in the multiverse and he serves an unseen higher power its sufficient to say he is a servant of God or that his master is God in the first place? If thats your logic then you should have no problem with Jean Grey being a servant of the supreme being? Theres considerably more on panel support for such a connection than there is for LT.

Originally posted by Beyonder
That the X-title itself isn't stacking up against 4 titles. One source V. 4?

Youre not understanding Beyonder. In no way shape or form is it stated or even heavily suggested that LT is gods servant, therefore its not a case of my titles versus your titles. This LT god connection has just sprung up as a result of a vague comment by LT in Infinity Watch 1 and his role in the multiverse thats all. You dont have multiple titles to draw upon you have one and then you have others showing LT's role in the multiverse.

Jean for example is actually referred to as an aspect of god and parallels are drawn on panel, theyve even gone and made the Crown/White Hot room the core of all creation in line with real life principles. In a crossover they even had Phoenix and the Source as one and the same and yet thats not enough in comparison?

It works both ways my friend.



Originally posted by Beyonder
Did you read the narration? Walock talked about "the others" which includes Stranger.

And what was the White Crown argument, I forget. Stranger sought to gain the PF to become supreme being. And an image of what according to Stranger would happen: the other abstracts would bow/pray to him after he had the PF.

Stranger's words against Stranger, Eternity, Galactus, Eon, LT, Ziran, Chaos, Order, and the Watcher's words.

Stranger had nothing whatsoever to do with the White Crown argument. Youve confused yourself as i stated in my last post. Different point.

X-men Forever and Strangers words were in support of the Phoenix Force giving power enough to become the supreme being of reality. The thing is it wasnt merely Strangers views on what he could do with the power. Eternity froze Stranger in time and told Jean that the process Stranger sought to bring about prematurely was something that happened naturally anyway so while they (speaking on behalf of the abstracts and LT) accepted their fate as part of the natural order, Stranger sought to bring about this process early and then benefit from it by using the power to protect himself during the collapse of reality, ensuring he could survive into the next (just like the Phoenix did for Galan and Eternity) unchallenged as the supreme being

Originally posted by Beyonder
And guess what? Warlock stomped them left and right. LT with a snap of his finger brought order to the court where Eternity, Galactus, Eon, Stranger, and a bunch of others couldn't. Even Warlock was shocked.

Lets not forget that LT agreed that he was unsure of whether his power was sufficient to overcome Adam with the IG. Nullifying the effects of a simple power blast isnt reason enough to assume LT is even greater than the IG when a) Dr Strange has done the same b) he went on to agree with the aforementioned and had to persuade Adam to co-operate.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Slice how you want, LT is far above all the other beings. Yet even he acknowledges he serves forces greater then him.

LT is far above most beings and forces, not all as has been shown quite conclusively on panel. Either way his role in the multiverse and the fact that he serves a higher power is not enough to say his master is the supreme being. Is it inferred? Yes, but certainly not as much as a Phoenix Force connection is, yet even i can accept that its not canon until its stated or conclusively shown on panel. If you want to disregard that and push for a connection then you must be open to opinions regarding the Phoenix Force. You cant have it both ways.

gotta side with gs, here. the way lt is represented on these forums people speak as though it has somehow been conclusively proven that he serves the 'supreme being' aka god, when in fact NEITHER of these assumptions have been proven in anyway at all.

the only thing proven is that lt serves something greater than him. could it be 'god'? i suppose . . . though i'd need a lot more on-panel evidence to take that side of the argument. lt's powers/decisions HAVE been overcome before and challenged many times, so we know he's not even the most powerful entity WITHIN the multi/megaverse.

the heart of gs's point is this, (correct me if i'm wrong gs!): people don't like when gs draws connections between pf and 'god', BUT there HAVE been many on-panel inferences (not conclusive proof, mind) to support the notion that this is at least possible and a viable interpretation. meanwhile, many seem to assume lt serves as god's judge, when there is in fact practically ZERO evidence to support this claim.

say what you will about gs and his pf ideas, at least he does his best to depict his theory with on-panel evidence (some of which MAY be open to interpretation . . . ) this whole lt-serves-god-thing CANNOT be likewise supported. based on what has appeared in comics, pf has a much stronger claim to be tied in someway to 'god' than lt does.

Originally posted by leonidas
gotta side with gs, here. the way lt is represented on these forums people speak as though it has somehow been conclusively proven that he serves the 'supreme being' aka god, when in fact NEITHER of these assumptions have been proven in anyway at all.

the only thing proven is that lt serves something greater than him. could it be 'god'? i suppose . . . though i'd need a lot more on-panel evidence to take that side of the argument. lt's powers/decisions HAVE been overcome before and challenged many times, so we know he's not even the most powerful entity WITHIN the multi/megaverse.

the heart of gs's point is this, (correct me if i'm wrong gs!): people don't like when gs draws connections between pf and 'god', BUT there HAVE been many on-panel inferences (not conclusive proof, mind) to support the notion that this is at least possible and a viable interpretation. meanwhile, many seem to assume lt serves as god's judge, when there is in fact practically ZERO evidence to support this claim.

say what you will about gs and his pf ideas, at least he does his best to depict his theory with on-panel evidence (some of which MAY be open to interpretation . . . ) this whole lt-serves-god-thing CANNOT be likewise supported. based on what has appeared in comics, pf has a much stronger claim to be tied in someway to 'god' than lt does.

Thats exactly my point.

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