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What street leveler can Beat Barbra gordon faster than Cassandra Cain the. new batgirl.

As shown in this link

http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirlsecretfiles01355ym.jpg

Originally posted by dman2008
What street leveler can Beat Barbra gordon faster than Cassandra Cain the. new batgirl.

As shown in this link

http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirlsecretfiles01355ym.jpg

That is darn hilarious.
0.37 seconds.
LOL.

Mind if I ask what issue of Batgirl that is from (I don't recall ever picking up that one). Thanks.

As for the question ...well, I don't know.
There are many speedsters who could knock Barbara out in less than HALF A SECOND, but for 'normal' street level characters that is hard. (And anyways Batgirl, Cassandra Cain, is a character that is in many ways meta).

Anyways, my quesses are as follows:
If Cassandra Cain can do that to Batgirl (and do it at that speed), then Lady Shiva Woosan can do the same.
If Lady Shiva can do that, then Richard Dragon MIGHT be able to do the same (although I doubt if he can clock a less than half a second TKO).

Everyone else I can think of (who doesn't have super powers .....particularly speed related abilities) would require more than half a second (on most cases more than a second).

Seriously .....even if someone stands right in front of you, and offers up the 'sweet spot' of their chin for your knockout blow, it would take just under a second for a fast punch to connect, and another second for the person to be crumpling to the floor (even if it is a perfect hit), and another second for the person to have settled to the floor.

Batgirl did all that in 0.37s ....and with her being several feet away from Barbara.

Although one has to note that Cassandra has been made into some sort of combat messiah (some of the stunts she does, eg dodging bullets at point blank range, are actually at Flash/Superman level since dodging a fullisade of shots from a gun that is inches away from your head requires a level of speed that is almost akin to PHASING.....yet Batgirl is supposed to be 'human'). Hence some of Batgirl's (Cassie) feats should not be taken as 'pure human.'

Originally posted by spetznaz
That is darn hilarious.
0.37 seconds.
LOL.

Mind if I ask what issue of Batgirl that is from (I don't recall ever picking up that one). Thanks.

As for the question ...well, I don't know.
There are many speedsters who could knock Barbara out in less than HALF A SECOND, but for 'normal' street level characters that is hard. (And anyways Batgirl, Cassandra Cain, is a character that is in many ways meta).

Anyways, my quesses are as follows:
If Cassandra Cain can do that to Batgirl (and do it at that speed), then Lady Shiva Woosan can do the same.
If Lady Shiva can do that, then Richard Dragon MIGHT be able to do the same (although I doubt if he can clock a less than half a second TKO).

Everyone else I can think of (who doesn't have super powers .....particularly speed related abilities) would require more than half a second (on most cases more than a second).

Seriously .....even if someone stands right in front of you, and offers up the 'sweet spot' of their chin for your knockout blow, it would take just under a second for a fast punch to connect, and another second for the person to be crumpling to the floor (even if it is a perfect hit), and another second for the person to have settled to the floor.

Batgirl did all that in 0.37s ....and with her being several feet away from Barbara.

Although one has to note that Cassandra has been made into some sort of combat messiah (some of the stunts she does, eg dodging bullets at point blank range, are actually at Flash/Superman level since dodging a fullisade of shots from a gun that is inches away from your head requires a level of speed that is almost akin to PHASING.....yet Batgirl is supposed to be 'human'). Hence some of Batgirl's (Cassie) feats should not be taken as 'pure human.'

Well if batgirl can beat her in 0.37s just imagine how fast Karate Kid could beat her

Oh the issue is Batgirl secret files #1

Deathstroke does it in half that.

Nah...but for real, Batgirl is ****ing wicked fast.

Thats kinda funny cause on the next page Cass is wondering how did Barbara ever survive being so weak, then she tries to move and sees that her feet are tethered together with an armed explosive an the Barbara holograms is lookin up at aher and smiling.

And BTW its from Batgirl #1, the special edition

Originally posted by marvelprince
Thats kinda funny cause on the next page Cass is wondering how did Barbara ever survive being so weak, then she tries to move and sees that her feet are tethered together with an armed explosive an the Barbara holograms is lookin up at aher and smiling.

And BTW its from Batgirl #1, the special edition

whoa barbara batgirl is pretty wicked fast too if she can tie something to cassie without her even noticing

Originally posted by AcousticDoc
whoa barbara batgirl is pretty wicked fast too if she can tie something to cassie without her even noticing
I would imagine it was a preset trap.

Originally posted by The Ion
I would imagine it was a preset trap.

The way its set up it looks like Barbara takes the hit and uses it as opportunity to 'catch' Cass, like Barb is playing possum. Its irony to demonstrate how Cass wonders Barbara survived in the field. A kind of parallel to show how Cass uses her fists but Barbara uses her brain

Originally posted by marvelprince
The way its set up it looks like Barbara takes the hit and uses it as opportunity to 'catch' Cass, like Barb is playing possum. Its irony to demonstrate how Cass wonders Barbara survived in the field. A kind of parallel to show how Cass uses her fists but Barbara uses her brain Cass still kicked her butt though untill the end.

Originally posted by dman2008
Cass still kicked her butt though untill the end.
Meh, not many can handle Batgirl h2h. I don't blame Barb for tricking her.

Check this shit out. This is Quicksilver speed.
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/3576/batgirl013kn.jpg

Hey lone pig can you post that at the Batgirl reespect thread please

The battle of the Batgirls computer simulation is just totally unrealistic.
Perhaps you just dislike Babara Gordon or maybe you just don't like
thinking things through.

I totally disagree with the way that this battle has been portrayed.

Barbara Gordon was supposedly only a brown belt in judo when she
became Batgirl. But consider what this meant in the time frame in
question. It would have been considered to be quite something.
Hell, back then martial arts had an aura of mystique and "even" a "girl"
with a brown belt in judo would have invoke a sense of admiration in
non-martial artists. She would have been thought of as highly skilled.
Never mind that sports martial arts are not the same or any where near
as effective as combat martial arts.

More importantly, Babs would have continued training in other martial
arts and mastered several disciplines during the years that followed. It's
amazing how Batman was allowed this development but somehow
Batgirl wasn't. In addition there is no substitute for actual combat
experience and Babs would have accumulated quite a lot over the years
as Batgirl. The down grading of her unarmed combat ability is
laughable & speaks volumes for the stupidity of some people.

Having the Joker cripple her, is infuriating to say the very least. Can
you imagine the outcry if this had been done to Batman. Luckily this
being the realm of imagination and fantasy I can simply refuse to accept
the foolish whims of some one else's imagination. To me Barbara
Gordon will always be the beautiful, sexy Awesome Dark Damsel,
fighting crime and helping to keep the "dark" forces in check.

Cassandra Cain, aka Batgirl, is said to have trained as an assassin
from an early age. Now anyone with a reasonable knowledge of
martial arts, knows that being a trained assassin does not necessarily
equate with being a master of the unarmed(empty hand/palm) martial
arts. In point of fact, a highly skilled assassin while very adept at killing
unsuspecting victims, may be rather poor at unarmed combat in
comparison. This is due to the specialist training they receive in killing in
stealthy ways. I.e. from a distance using weapons or up close using
poison etc.

Either the writers didn't know this or deliberately sought to misrepresent
this to their readers. (or should that be viewers.) In addition Cass is
rather young and I have the distinct impression that she is somewhat lacking in field experience. Especially that of unarmed combat, which is
not really the speciality of assassins. This misconception may have
arisen from the inaccurate portrayal of ninjutsu in the west. (sacrificed on the alter of entertainment)

The foundations on which Cassandra Cain's supposed vastly superior
unarmed martial arts prowess is based, are at the very least highly
questionable. At worst they are fatally flawed and wildly inaccurate. The
static notion that Barbara Gordon somehow remained at "brown belt"
judo level of unarmed combat skill is idiotic. It smacks of an
unwillingness to come to terms with the dynamic nature of things. Or of
a deep ingrained prejudice. Strange how a woman is called "Batgirl"
but the male equivalent is called "Batman" not "Batboy".

Babs' vast combat experience and years of disciplined training in a
variety of martial arts would be more than the inexperienced assassin
Cass could handle. Cass battles bravely but is knocked out as Babs
simply outfights her. (Babs does not out-think her - as any martial artist
who gets to the higher levels knows thinking is a fatal error in combat)
However thinking is a rather useful skill in many other avenues as it
allows you to own your own mind and imagination.

Who could beat Babs Gordon : Answer - Very few who are not consider
"super-human" level.

Originally posted by blackwarrior
The battle of the Batgirls computer simulation is just totally unrealistic.
Perhaps you just dislike Babara Gordon or maybe you just don't like
thinking things through.

I totally disagree with the way that this battle has been portrayed.

Barbara Gordon was supposedly only a brown belt in judo when she
became Batgirl. But consider what this meant in the time frame in
question. It would have been considered to be quite something.
Hell, back then martial arts had an aura of mystique and "even" a "girl"
with a brown belt in judo would have invoke a sense of admiration in
non-martial artists. She would have been thought of as highly skilled.
Never mind that sports martial arts are not the same or any where near
as effective as combat martial arts.

More importantly, Babs would have continued training in other martial
arts and mastered several disciplines during the years that followed. It's
amazing how Batman was allowed this development but somehow
Batgirl wasn't. In addition there is no substitute for actual combat
experience and Babs would have accumulated quite a lot over the years
as Batgirl. The down grading of her unarmed combat ability is
laughable & speaks volumes for the stupidity of some people.

Having the Joker cripple her, is infuriating to say the very least. Can
you imagine the outcry if this had been done to Batman. Luckily this
being the realm of imagination and fantasy I can simply refuse to accept
the foolish whims of some one else's imagination. To me Barbara
Gordon will always be the beautiful, sexy Awesome Dark Damsel,
fighting crime and helping to keep the "dark" forces in check.

Cassandra Cain, aka Batgirl, is said to have trained as an assassin
from an early age. Now anyone with a reasonable knowledge of
martial arts, knows that being a trained assassin does not necessarily
equate with being a master of the unarmed(empty hand/palm) martial
arts. In point of fact, a highly skilled assassin while very adept at killing
unsuspecting victims, may be rather poor at unarmed combat in
comparison. This is due to the specialist training they receive in killing in
stealthy ways. I.e. from a distance using weapons or up close using
poison etc.

Either the writers didn't know this or deliberately sought to misrepresent
this to their readers. (or should that be viewers.) In addition Cass is
rather young and I have the distinct impression that she is somewhat lacking in field experience. Especially that of unarmed combat, which is
not really the speciality of assassins. This misconception may have
arisen from the inaccurate portrayal of ninjutsu in the west. (sacrificed on the alter of entertainment)

The foundations on which Cassandra Cain's supposed vastly superior
unarmed martial arts prowess is based, are at the very least highly
questionable. At worst they are fatally flawed and wildly inaccurate. The
static notion that Barbara Gordon somehow remained at "brown belt"
judo level of unarmed combat skill is idiotic. It smacks of an
unwillingness to come to terms with the dynamic nature of things. Or of
a deep ingrained prejudice. Strange how a woman is called "Batgirl"
but the male equivalent is called "Batman" not "Batboy".

Babs' vast combat experience and years of disciplined training in a
variety of martial arts would be more than the inexperienced assassin
Cass could handle. Cass battles bravely but is knocked out as Babs
simply outfights her. (Babs does not out-think her - as any martial artist
who gets to the higher levels knows thinking is a fatal error in combat)
However thinking is a rather useful skill in many other avenues as it
allows you to own your own mind and imagination.

Who could beat Babs Gordon : Answer - Very few who are not consider
"super-human" level.


Nice essay ......and I have several feminist friends who would absolutely adore your treatise on the whole 'batGIRL/batMAN' thing.

I also 100% agree with the whole 'Brown Belt' thing.
When Batgirl (Barbara) was originally written, being a brown belt was a HUGE accomplishment.
It SHOULD still be a huge accomplishment today.
However nowadays you see 13 yr old boys coming out of dollar dojos with BLACK BELTS! Silly lil' middleschool kids who think having a colored belt and being able to kick higher than their friend's chest makes them a 'master.'
With the whole proliferation of snotty-nosed kids with blackbelts the value of, say, a brown belt has gone to the dogs.
Outside the US (where I have spent a considerable part of my life) having a brown belt still has a measure of respect. You can see people in their 20s with brown belts, unlike here where I have personally seen 13 yr olds with black belts (and absolutely no skill ....well, they can do kata and they do have nice glossy certificates with seals and frills and drawings of sai and kama).
And anyways .....the mystique of the Black Belt itself is given too much credit here. All a black belt means is one has reached a level where they can BEGIN to learn the true art.
It is NOT an end BUT a beginning.

Anyways, in the DC comic world Batgirl (cassandra) is perfect. So perfect that she is actually meta (in my opinion).

Who should?

The likes of Cass, Shiva and Dragon. Babs was damn good but not on that level.

Btw, BW wasent Dragon who trained Babs to fight after the Joker incident?

Originally posted by blackwarrior
The battle of the Batgirls computer simulation is just totally unrealistic.
Perhaps you just dislike Babara Gordon or maybe you just don't like
thinking things through.

I totally disagree with the way that this battle has been portrayed.

Barbara Gordon was supposedly only a brown belt in judo when she
became Batgirl. But consider what this meant in the time frame in
question. It would have been considered to be quite something.
Hell, back then martial arts had an aura of mystique and "even" a "girl"
with a brown belt in judo would have invoke a sense of admiration in
non-martial artists. She would have been thought of as highly skilled.
Never mind that sports martial arts are not the same or any where near
as effective as combat martial arts.

More importantly, Babs would have continued training in other martial
arts and mastered several disciplines during the years that followed. It's
amazing how Batman was allowed this development but somehow
Batgirl wasn't. In addition there is no substitute for actual combat
experience and Babs would have accumulated quite a lot over the years
as Batgirl. The down grading of her unarmed combat ability is
laughable & speaks volumes for the stupidity of some people.

Having the Joker cripple her, is infuriating to say the very least. Can
you imagine the outcry if this had been done to Batman. Luckily this
being the realm of imagination and fantasy I can simply refuse to accept
the foolish whims of some one else's imagination. To me Barbara
Gordon will always be the beautiful, sexy Awesome Dark Damsel,
fighting crime and helping to keep the "dark" forces in check.

Cassandra Cain, aka Batgirl, is said to have trained as an assassin
from an early age. Now anyone with a reasonable knowledge of
martial arts, knows that being a trained assassin does not necessarily
equate with being a master of the unarmed(empty hand/palm) martial
arts. In point of fact, a highly skilled assassin while very adept at killing
unsuspecting victims, may be rather poor at unarmed combat in
comparison. This is due to the specialist training they receive in killing in
stealthy ways. I.e. from a distance using weapons or up close using
poison etc.

Either the writers didn't know this or deliberately sought to misrepresent
this to their readers. (or should that be viewers.) In addition Cass is
rather young and I have the distinct impression that she is somewhat lacking in field experience. Especially that of unarmed combat, which is
not really the speciality of assassins. This misconception may have
arisen from the inaccurate portrayal of ninjutsu in the west. (sacrificed on the alter of entertainment)

The foundations on which Cassandra Cain's supposed vastly superior
unarmed martial arts prowess is based, are at the very least highly
questionable. At worst they are fatally flawed and wildly inaccurate. The
static notion that Barbara Gordon somehow remained at "brown belt"
judo level of unarmed combat skill is idiotic. It smacks of an
unwillingness to come to terms with the dynamic nature of things. Or of
a deep ingrained prejudice. Strange how a woman is called "Batgirl"
but the male equivalent is called "Batman" not "Batboy".

Babs' vast combat experience and years of disciplined training in a
variety of martial arts would be more than the inexperienced assassin
Cass could handle. Cass battles bravely but is knocked out as Babs
simply outfights her. (Babs does not out-think her - as any martial artist
who gets to the higher levels knows thinking is a fatal error in combat)
However thinking is a rather useful skill in many other avenues as it
allows you to own your own mind and imagination.

Who could beat Babs Gordon : Answer - Very few who are not consider
"super-human" level.

Very nice essay but you are wong in one critical area. Barbara has no real chance of beating Cass in hand to hand fight.

Yes the the most effective wasy to assasinate someone is to poison them in their sleep. Cass however was rained as a comic book assassin. Meaning all the flying kicks and bullet time etc.

Babs experience might give her a win in some way but not in a fist fight. Cass has shown the ability to fight toe-to-to with people like Shiva, as well as Batman. mShe has hung with guys like Deathstroke two. When has Barbara Gordan shown that she could fight and win against any of these people. Even if Barbra has improved her skills it doens't mean that she is a mtach for someone who has proven to be one of the best.

Now wya does Babs outfight Cass. Now Way.