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Is this even a match? Kanos'd destroy Nom

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Is this even a match? Kanos'd destroy Nom

I have never heard such a ridiculous pile of shit reply to something in my life than what I just read.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Is this even a match? Kanos'd destroy Nom

lol. Nom was a masterful fighter. Just because he wasn't a warrior doesn't mean he was weak. Look at Onmi. Nom has hidden weapons that make him extremely dangerous. Kanos goes down.

He had the Plaeryn boll...assuming Kanos is wearing his helmet that won't work....he had false finger filled with gas...assuming Kanos is wearing his helmet that's it....when did Nom ever display any competent warrior skills? He was an intendant and a spy, not a killer.

He wimped out on facing Corran Horn, three shamed Ones brought him down and Kunra-a self admitted coward- saved his life and outfought them. He was defeated by Tahiri and Mara Jade...the only time he ever showed himself to be competent at all was when he got mad enough to fight for the Shamed Ones...and then his cowardice came back instantly

He also helped bring down the empire and had an array of poisonous weapons. And no, Kir is no wearing his helmet.

He was lying in his bed asleep when the three shamed ones attacked. Kunra was a coward, but so was Sidious according to Lucas in the ROTS commentary. Corran Horn was one of the strongest Jedi in the Order, arguable better then Katarn. Most warriors would have lost to him. Kanos would have been pwned by Corran.

Nom Anor a coward? He led the Shamed uprising against Shimrra. Coward? I don't think so.

The only poison weapon Nom always has on him is the PB. And considering he was in disguise for thirty years and not risking his neck with numerous agents...
Fine, explain Nom running from Tahiri...leading the revolt? The revolt had started when he joined in. And he courage deserted him the second he saw Mara Jade...he even murdered one of his followers to get away from her

Mara's scary. I wouldn't call you a coward if you ran from someone with an energy weapon capable of severing your head with ease and a husban that would send an entire Order of Jedi against you if you did manage to kill her.

Nom was smart. The best defense is not being there when the fighting starts.

Which was why he went weak kneed seeing her from a distance when he was in disguise and barvely slit the throat of one of his followers? He also begs and pleads at Mara's feet a short time thereafter

Yet he still played a huge part in taking down both the Vong and the Empire.

Erm....taking down the Vong? And Empire? What were these huge roles now?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The only poison weapon Nom always has on him is the PB. And considering he was in disguise for thirty years and not risking his neck with numerous agents...
Fine, explain Nom running from Tahiri...leading the revolt? The revolt had started when he joined in. And he courage deserted him the second he saw Mara Jade...he even murdered one of his followers to get away from her

Explain Sidious running from Yoda. Explain Sidious begging for his life like a dog to Mace after significant defeat.

And no. That wasn't his only weapon. He didn't run around gocking at people with deadly Eye Venom. He had poisonous daggers and some other gadgets on him.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Erm....taking down the Vong? And Empire? What were these huge roles now?

The uprising. It was mentioned that he had a large part in taking down the Empire. Assassin work, probably, since the Cong new the Empire would pwn them.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Explain Sidious running from Yoda. Explain Sidious begging for his life like a dog to Mace after significant defeat.

And no. That wasn't his only weapon. He didn't run around gocking at people with deadly Eye Venom. He had poisonous daggers and some other gadgets on him.

Begging to Mace? You mean 'tricking Anakin completely?' According to Lucas, he was exagerrating his weakness and faking Anakin out completely. Just watch the scene where he smirks lightly and his eyes flick to Anakin while Mace and anakin are arguing.
And Nom never carried around a deadly dagger or other gadgets minus his false finger. And explain Yoda running from Sidious. Either:
1. Sidious was judtly unwilling to chance the work of a lifetime on a single duel
2. Sidious was attempting to bring Yoda to a place where he had the advantage

And when was it mention Nom participated in the Empire's fall? Daala and Thrawn, perhaps, but not Palpatine's...as for the uprising, Nom didn't start it. Kunra did far more than Nom...Nom tried to STOP the war and he only joined in later on.

Where did Lucas ever say that he was faking it? In the DVD commentary it says Mace overpowered Sidious.

Nom had a life time of work at risk to. He didn't want to put himself at risk.

He immediately said that THEN Anakin comes in and Sidious exagerrate his weakness.

And Nom had already chosen to enter the battle..

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He immediately said that THEN Anakin comes in and Sidious exagerrate his weakness.

By the moaing yes, but he still said that he was overpowered. It's non-debatable that Sidious was defeated.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And Nom had already chosen to enter the battle..

Before a Jedi who wanted him dead was in it.

1. at that point in time, the battle'd yet to conclude and Mace'd left himself in a vulnerable position...it's the same as if the fight between Maul and Obi-wan was interrupted when Obi was dangling over the edge. Sidious was overpowered there, but he faked a lot to Anakin and the lightning part? That was clearly a fake out for Anakin.

2. At that point, Nom Anor was practically suicidal....

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Begging to Mace? You mean 'tricking Anakin completely?' According to Lucas, he was exagerrating his weakness and faking Anakin out completely. Just watch the scene where he smirks lightly and his eyes flick to Anakin while Mace and anakin are arguing.
And Nom never carried around a deadly dagger or other gadgets minus his false finger. And explain Yoda running from Sidious. Either:
1. Sidious was judtly unwilling to chance the work of a lifetime on a single duel
2. Sidious was attempting to bring Yoda to a place where he had the advantage

And when was it mention Nom participated in the Empire's fall? Daala and Thrawn, perhaps, but not Palpatine's...as for the uprising, Nom didn't start it. Kunra did far more than Nom...Nom tried to STOP the war and he only joined in later on.

His behind-the-scenes actions helped hasten the eventual downfall of the fragmented Empire.

^ Nom Anor's profile in the Databank.

1. Sidious ran because he was plummeted into his office chair after a surpisngly powerful blast by Yoda. He underestimated Yoda's power and ran because he knew he would probably lose. Get it?

2. That is such bullshit! Sidious was *RUNNING AWAY* from Yoda, not looking for a "better place to duel". Stop with these excuses!

According to Lucas on the ROTS Commentary AND the Databank, Mace had "overpowered" Sidious during the entirety of their fight and faked when Anakin entered the room. Before Anakin entered, I recall seeing Palpatine scrambling to the nearest wall like a scared little animal.

1. FRAGMENTED Empire....IE: remnants after Dark Empire

2. Except he didn't lose and he was hardly scared when he was facing Yoda.

3. Why don't you try some proof? Noone in their right mind would run indefinitely from Yoda. How do you know he wasn't heading to a place where he'd have the advantage?

4. Gee, let's see you even try to react when that happens. According to Lucas, and I paraphrase: "We always had the idea that Mace overpowered Palpatine and then Anakin comes in and Sidious fakes his weakness." Yeah, that lightning thing was lying through his teeth.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. FRAGMENTED Empire....IE: remnants after Dark Empire

2. Except he didn't lose and he was hardly scared when he was facing Yoda.

3. Why don't you try some proof? Noone in their right mind would run indefinitely from Yoda. How do you know he wasn't heading to a place where he'd have the advantage?

4. Gee, let's see you even try to react when that happens. According to Lucas, and I paraphrase: "We always had the idea that Mace overpowered Palpatine and then Anakin comes in and Sidious fakes his weakness." Yeah, that lightning thing was lying through his teeth.


Hardly scared? Did you see his face when his Lightning was bursted back in his face? Pure fear, Lightsnake. Except Yoda had alot more winning points in the fight.

Oh my GOD! Sidious was running. When Yoda said "If so powerful are you, why run?" Sidious didn't just say "I am not running!"

Sidious WAS running away from Yoda because he knew his possibilities of loss were high. He would have fought with Yoda to find another place. No one is gonna sit there, turn their back away from their opponent and leap across the room trying to leave the door to find a better place to duel.

I have heard enough of this bullshit.


Who was talking about Lightning? Could you attempt to place Sidious on a pedestal even more than you already are? We were talking about him scrambling away from Mace like a little girl BEFORE Anakin came into the office.

1. WHAT winning points now? And considering Yoda completely screwed up at the end and sent himself hurtling over the edge while Sidious didn't....edge to Sidious. Not once in the fight did either have any advantage over the other and Yoda's last gambit failed. How do you know Yoda didn't plan to send them both off and Sidious knew it? Or that Yoda was ignorant of the conseuqences to what he was doing and Sidious wasn't?

2. Actually, it was "Why leave?" Sidious's response was to sneer and ignite his saber when he had to fight. And y'know what else? Considering he matched Yoda in the saber fight, it doesn't have any bearing.

3. Of all those 'high possibilities' of losing didn't carry through. Yoda and Sidious were equals and Sidious was facing an enemy where he didn't hold the cards. He blasted Yoda, Yoda blasted him back. He tried to run at the start, Yoda fled at the end. Evens out. And he hardly 'turned his back and walked towards the door, he jumped towards it and Yoda forced his hand there. Come on, what else would he have accomplished? HOW DARE SIDIOUS TRY TO GAIN AN UPEER HANd, DAMN HIM TO HELL!

4. Scrambling away from Mace like a little girl? Yeah, so he should fling himself at Mace screaming in inhuman rage instead of moving back to regain his bearings? And where Mace was, a sweep of the hand would send Mace out of the window. How DARE Sidious attempt to recover after being knocked down, how DARE he act like a smart fighter! And dominating the whole fight? Mace was doing no such thing. he was pushed back at the start and Kit died right under his nose, he missed a move that should have meant instant death for him and failed to break Palpatine until the end with the kick.

Why are we arguing about Sidious now?

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1504/plaplaylitowned3cy.jpg

I don't know how anyone could think he didn't fake that entire lightning thing....Lucas only said he was exagerrating weakness there, he displays no signs of any injury afterwards, unleashes a lot more power on Mace than he was originally...looks at Anakin with a smirk on his face...maybe it's just me

I do find it odd that his master plan involves getting his ass beat and his face melted.

His other master plan involved manhandled by a loose cannon like Grievous, shackled down roughly during a space battle...and considering his 'melted' face and injuries'd give him more credibility with the senate, coupled with the idea that the lightning didn't do ANYTHING to his face and he just removed his mask...
Lightning hasn't effected anyone else that way and Luke was getting it worse than Palp....so was Mace as the end and he was cosmetically fine. Even men tortured viciously with lightning in the EU have come out looking fine and feeling...cooked

Plus, lightning wouldn't melt your face like that, raise your eyebrows or turn your eyes Sith yellow.

1. WHAT winning points now? And considering Yoda completely screwed up at the end and sent himself hurtling over the edge while Sidious didn't....edge to Sidious. Not once in the fight did either have any advantage over the other and Yoda's last gambit failed. How do you know Yoda didn't plan to send them both off and Sidious knew it? Or that Yoda was ignorant of the conseuqences to what he was doing and Sidious wasn't?

Do NOT force me to whip out the ROTS Script, which shows Yoda having the upper hand more times than Sidious.

Yoda's own power sent his meager frame tumbling to the office floor. Sidious was a grown man.

2. Actually, it was "Why leave?" Sidious's response was to sneer and ignite his saber when he had to fight. And y'know what else? Considering he matched Yoda in the saber fight, it doesn't have any bearing.

Oh... Now it doesn't have any bearing. I see.

Oh yeah. Thanks for the correction. You can't consider it running when you frantically leap across the room to try to exit the building.

3. Of all those 'high possibilities' of losing didn't carry through. Yoda and Sidious were equals and Sidious was facing an enemy where he didn't hold the cards. He blasted Yoda, Yoda blasted him back. He tried to run at the start, Yoda fled at the end. Evens out. And he hardly 'turned his back and walked towards the door, he jumped towards it and Yoda forced his hand there. Come on, what else would he have accomplished? HOW DARE SIDIOUS TRY TO GAIN AN UPEER HANd, DAMN HIM TO HELL!

According to you, Sidious running has no bearing so it shall work the same for Yoda. Sidious trying to gain an upper hand? He feared the factor of defeat from Yoda, so he tried to leave. Yoda fled due to the fact he fell a hundred feet due to his OWN POWER!

4. Scrambling away from Mace like a little girl? Yeah, so he should fling himself at Mace screaming in inhuman rage instead of moving back to regain his bearings? And where Mace was, a sweep of the hand would send Mace out of the window. How DARE Sidious attempt to recover after being knocked down, how DARE he act like a smart fighter! And dominating the whole fight? Mace was doing no such thing. he was pushed back at the start and Kit died right under his nose, he missed a move that should have meant instant death for him and failed to break Palpatine until the end with the kick.

We didn't see Palpatine overpowering Mace when it came to the end, now did he?

LOL! You don't have to fling yourself, but he knew the ways of the Jedi and i'm sure he knew Mace wouldn't slay him. Instead, he started scrambling away like... a ....little....Girl! Yeah. He did need to regain his bearings after losing the duel.

A smart fighter flees to a corner like a rat?

I can see that... Attempt to recover after being knocked down? The man practically slipped. He wasn't directly kicked on his ass. His lightsaber was kicked to the side. There was NOTHING to recover from.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I don't know how anyone could think he didn't fake that entire lightning thing....Lucas only said he was exagerrating weakness there, he displays no signs of any injury afterwards, unleashes a lot more power on Mace than he was originally...looks at Anakin with a smirk on his face...maybe it's just me

His face WAS melted. Whether it was faked or not, his face was melted.

Uh, I'm pretty sure it was because of the lightning that his face got all goofy. Personally, I thought it was pretty weak. I liked the KOTOR explanation of the body becoming twisted over time with evil. I would have prefered an explanation along the lines of him hiding his true face with a force mask or something.

1. Don't make me pull out the novelization. The movie shows neither of the occurances.

2. Especially considering you do more than hold your own, you sorta win the fight...yeah, I'd say it has no bearing.

3. His own power? Who was using the lightning now? And who tried something and failed miserably, sending himself plummeting a hundred feet?

4. We didn't see Obi-wan overpowering Maul, either, but at the end of the day who was lying in two pieces? And he tried to scramble away...what else were you expecting to do? Anyone with a tiny amount of brains would put distance between himself and his enemy to recover. Seriously, what the hell are you trying to prove? And nothing to recover from except being kicked by a very strong man like Mace Windu? And yes, the smart fighter would retreat back to get away from the guy with the sword, especially as Palpatine had a place to blast Mace without risking a fall....or, y'know, just brush his hand to the side and hurl Mace out the window. And LOSING the duel? Wow, did Obi-wan lose the saber duel to Maul?

Originally posted by Ianus
Uh, I'm pretty sure it was because of the lightning that his face got all goofy. Personally, I thought it was pretty weak. I liked the KOTOR explanation of the body becoming twisted over time with evil. I would have prefered an explanation along the lines of him hiding his true face with a force mask or something.

Who's to say it's not? Ian McDiarmid himself said he likes the explanation that that face is Palpatine's true face, twisted from years of the Dark Side....the evidence doesn't support Palpatine's face twisting because of the lightning: like I said, who else's face changed? Luke and Mace got nailed bad and they were fine cosmetically....lightning does not raise your eyebrows, it does not change the tone of your voice, create twisted wrinkles...hell, lightning would burn your face is anything....and lightning would not turn your eyes Sith yellow.

The idea that it was a mask the whole time is not so far fetched

1. Don't make me pull out the novelization. The movie shows neither of the occurances.

I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions. - George Lucas, from an interview in Starlog #337

Janus posted this earlier. If I get up one morning, call myself an Author and decided to write a book about how a Jawa runs the Galaxy for 270,000 years, does that make it Canon?

HELL NO!

Since the ROTS Novelisation had several changes and flaws (Especially things that didn't even happen in the damn movie) and the book was written by some random author who has no association to Lucasfilm, does that make it Canon?

HELL NO!

I disregard the novelisation as shit. So go ahead. Bring it to the table. It wont do much.... At all.

2. Especially considering you do more than hold your own, you sorta win the fight...yeah, I'd say it has no bearing.

He won? LMAO! There was no "sorta" winning. He lost and then Anakin basically came and helped Sidious "KILL" Mace. The duel was over the second Mace WON it. Sidious manipulated Anakin and they KILLED Mace TOGETHER.

3. His own power? Who was using the lightning now? And who tried something and failed miserably, sending himself plummeting a hundred feet?

The same lightning that Yoda absorbed and sent flying back at Sidious with twice the power? Power that was so high, it even blasted himself off of the Pod?

Yoda failing reminds me of how Sidious failed to a handful of rebels, a Jedi with three years of experience, and a torso with artificial limbs.

4. We didn't see Obi-wan overpowering Maul, either, but at the end of the day who was lying in two pieces? And he tried to scramble away...what else were you expecting to do? Anyone with a tiny amount of brains would put distance between himself and his enemy to recover. Seriously, what the hell are you trying to prove? And nothing to recover from except being kicked by a very strong man like Mace Windu? And yes, the smart fighter would retreat back to get away from the guy with the sword, especially as Palpatine had a place to blast Mace without risking a fall....or, y'know, just brush his hand to the side and hurl Mace out the window. And LOSING the duel? Wow, did Obi-wan lose the saber duel to Maul?

A strong man? Wasn't Sidious the strongest Sith ever? According to some Author who has no relation to Lucas. I mean... The strongest Sith can recover quickly from a kick to his Lightsaber... Can't he?

Distance? Anyone with a tiny amount of brains knows that the opponent would just follow you as you scramble... Oh wait... MACE DID THAT!

No. Kenobi killed Maul after being hurled into a Generator.

Sidious shocked Mace out of a Window after help from his apprentice after he manipulated his apprentice to slice the hand off of the man who just defeated him.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I don't know how anyone could think he didn't fake that entire lightning thing....Lucas only said he was exagerrating weakness there, he displays no signs of any injury afterwards, unleashes a lot more power on Mace than he was originally...looks at Anakin with a smirk on his face...maybe it's just me Uhh.. Sidious had force lightning as trump card but it was obvious that it was useless. I see no wacky theories possible to him letting himself be electrocuted and possibly killed for a grand plan.

And although many people think it's cheesy, Lucas intended that event the reason for Sidious' face being scarred.

overlord:Except there's a few continuity errors if ti was and Ian McDiarmid thinks differently. It was meant to be ambiguous. A triump card? Why WOULDn'T he fake it for Anakin there? And Lucas certainly took a large interest in TOTJ. Crack open either the TOTJ companion or Godlen Age of the Sith.

1. And things from the script mean what if they're not in the movie? Did Anakin fight Greedo on Tatooine? Did Grievous kill Shaak Ti?

2. Exactly. He manipulated Anakin. He lost the battle, won the war.

3. You do know in the ROTJ script, it was Palpatine's death that allowed the rebels to finish what they did? Or there was a little prophecy involved and Palpatine was focused completely on making Luke suffer. And twice the power? Yods wasn't throwing any lightning back, he blocking it. And he screwed it up.

4. Force strength isn't physical. Vodo and Yoda weren't physically imposing. Neither was King Ommin, Count Dooku or Arca Jeth. In build and phsycial strength, Mace>Most anyone. Oh, and those authors need to be approved by Lucas, they work for his company and KJA has known Lucas very well for a while...and this is an EU forum.
Wait, where's the standard here? Obi-wan lost a saber duel to Maul...he was disarmed and hanging on 'like a little girl' And knowing an opponent'd follow you doesn't change the fact you immediately get away from your enemy and recover. And how convenient Anakin came in becase Mace set himself up for being ripped out the window. Palpatine had been manipulating Anakin for years and manipulated him even more with the lightning. please, give a counterexample to how the weak Sidious fired far with far more intensity than when he'd first been using, how lightning didn't affect Luke or anyone else the same way-didn't turn their eyes Sith yellow or rot their teeth! How did the weak Sith get back to his feet as if nothing happened?
Palp's face gave him proof against the Jedi and got him Anakin, to him, I doubt that was a raw deal

1. And things from the script mean what if they're not in the movie? Did Anakin fight Greedo on Tatooine? Did Grievous kill Shaak Ti?

LOL! The parts shown in the script where it says that Yoda overpowered Sidious actually happened in the movie.

2. Exactly. He manipulated Anakin. He lost the battle, won the war. He was still defeated fairly and required assistance to destroy the Jedi Master.

3. You do know in the ROTJ script, it was Palpatine's death that allowed the rebels to finish what they did? Or there was a little prophecy involved and Palpatine was focused completely on making Luke suffer. And twice the power? Yods wasn't throwing any lightning back, he blocking it. And he screwed it up.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! He absorbed Sidious' Lightning in a ball of energy and blasted it back in his face. Yoda just flew farther because he is smaller and because of the massive power of the blast.

4. Force strength isn't physical. Vodo and Yoda weren't physically imposing. Neither was King Ommin, Count Dooku or Arca Jeth. In build and phsycial strength, Mace>Most anyone. Oh, and those authors need to be approved by Lucas, they work for his company and KJA has known Lucas very well for a while...and this is an EU forum.
Wait, where's the standard here? Obi-wan lost a saber duel to Maul...he was disarmed and hanging on 'like a little girl' And knowing an opponent'd follow you doesn't change the fact you immediately get away from your enemy and recover. And how convenient Anakin came in becase Mace set himself up for being ripped out the window. Palpatine had been manipulating Anakin for years and manipulated him even more with the lightning. please, give a counterexample to how the weak Sidious fired far with far more intensity than when he'd first been using, how lightning didn't affect Luke or anyone else the same way-didn't turn their eyes Sith yellow or rot their teeth! How did the weak Sith get back to his feet as if nothing happened?
Palp's face gave him proof against the Jedi and got him Anakin, to him, I doubt that was a raw deal

Databank sez:

Sidious' face MELTED because of the Lightning. Maybe he was just too old or couldn't handle his own Lightning.

Stop comparing Kenobi and Maul to Mace and Sidious. The fights were so very different.

Mace would not have got ripped out of the window. Sidious' first attempt failed when he tried to do with Lightning. He needed... Assistance after he failed for the second time trying to kill Windu.

Mace > Anyone is physical strength? I think Kit would give Mace a run for his money in a fist fight.

1. Lol. Name one time. If he was overpowering him, why did Yoda run away and not kill him? Why, could it be Sidious was neverpowered once in the fight?
2. Defeated fairly easily? Before or after killing three of the Order's best and drove Mace back?
3. Great. So, in other words Yoda screwed up. And according the novelization AND script, the power contained was too great to be contained and thus exploded in their faces. Yoda screwed that up. Face it.
4. No, the fights aren't. In both cases, a guy was apparently down. Sidious vs. Mace was simply interrupted. And give me a break. Palpatine was never in danger during the lightning scene. Lucas himself said he was faking and exagerrating in the commentary. And OMG, you use SO MUCH PROOF to support how Mace wouldn't have gone out the window? C'mon, why would Sidious use lightning which SO CONVENIENTLY alters his face and SO CONVENIENTLY gives him a second wind when anakin was SO CONVENIENTLY having doubts in front of the jedi he SO CONVIENTLY despised most when he'd been SO CONVENIENTLY filled with dobuts by the man who SO CONVENIENTLY was in danger? Why use lightning instead of a much surer Force Push now?
Read Shatterpoint and then tell me Mace is physically weak. And seriously....the databank never outright says it was the lightning that scarred him. And I'm getting tired of you avoiding this. Why did it affect Palpatine so? Why was:
1. Luke never affected that way.
2. Mace never affected that way.
3. Anakin never effected that way
4. Palpatine using much greater power than he was initially when he killed Mace and gets up like nothing happened.
5. smirks and looks to Anakin when he and Mace argue and grins broadly when Anakin attacks Mace.
6. Why Sith lightning changes Palpatine's voice. And his hair. And raises his eyebrows. And doesn't 'burn' like actual energy would. And turns his eyes Sith yellow. And rots his teeth.
7. How the EU states that the dark side energy on Korriban ravaged Palpatine's mortal frame into the withered appearance? Oh, wait they're just a hack author with no connection to Lucas until they write what you agree with

1. Lol. Name one time. If he was overpowering him, why did Yoda run away and not kill him? Why, could it be Sidious was neverpowered once in the fight?

Are you NOT getting it? Yoda blasted himself off of the Podium because he used too much power. He fell at least a hundred feet. At eight hundred years old, that ain't too pleasant.

2. Defeated fairly easily? Before or after killing three of the Order's best and drove Mace back?

Who said fairly easy? I said Mace overpowered him fairly. Read properly next time.

The Order's best?!? Please!

3. Great. So, in other words Yoda screwed up. And according the novelization AND script, the power contained was too great to be contained and thus exploded in their faces. Yoda screwed that up. Face it.

Who in the HELL said Yoda didn't screw up? You need to back up a few paces. Too great? Yoda was containing it fine. He just blended it with a blast of his own. Sidious knew this. DID YOU SEE his face?

4. No, the fights aren't. In both cases, a guy was apparently down. Sidious vs. Mace was simply interrupted. And give me a break. Palpatine was never in danger during the lightning scene. Lucas himself said he was faking and exagerrating in the commentary. And OMG, you use SO MUCH PROOF to support how Mace wouldn't have gone out the window? C'mon, why would Sidious use lightning which SO CONVENIENTLY alters his face and SO CONVENIENTLY gives him a second wind when anakin was SO CONVENIENTLY having doubts in front of the jedi he SO CONVIENTLY despised most when he'd been SO CONVENIENTLY filled with dobuts by the man who SO CONVENIENTLY was in danger? Why use lightning instead of a much surer Force Push now?

Okay then. I could ask you the same question as to why Mace didn't just completely rip Sidious apart. He had the perfect opportunity, seeing as he had already pretty much overpowered him.

Sidious wanted to fry Mace. Mace blocked it and Sidious went from there into faking it.

Read Shatterpoint and then tell me Mace is physically weak. And seriously....the databank never outright says it was the lightning that scarred him. And I'm getting tired of you avoiding this. Why did it affect Palpatine so? Why was:
1. Luke never affected that way.
2. Mace never affected that way.
3. Anakin never effected that way
4. Palpatine using much greater power than he was initially when he killed Mace and gets up like nothing happened.
5. smirks and looks to Anakin when he and Mace argue and grins broadly when Anakin attacks Mace.
6. Why Sith lightning changes Palpatine's voice. And his hair. And raises his eyebrows. And doesn't 'burn' like actual energy would. And turns his eyes Sith yellow. And rots his teeth.
7. How the EU states that the dark side energy on Korriban ravaged Palpatine's mortal frame into the withered appearance? Oh, wait they're just a hack author with no connection to Lucas until they write what you agree with


NO ONE CALLED MACE PHYSICALLY WEAK! What the hell is wrong with you!??!?

I am getting tired of your lame ass excuses!

Databank SEZZZ:

The evil energies twisted Palpatine's face as they flowed through him, scarring and disfiguring his once handsome features


Can you read that properly? Or are you going to misinterperet something I say AGAIN?

If Palpatines face melted, wouldn't that destroy his eyes? Why does he still have his teeth? I'm not saying I totally belive that it was just a mask, but it seemd like a really good excuse for Sidious to prove that the jedi tried to assassinat him. That was the only way to prove it.


The point were Yoda deflects Palpatines lightning, well yes he is stronger than Palpatine, but he still can't do it.
As we saw, his attempt to drive it back at Sidious failed into an explosion causing him more damage because of his light weight. So Sidious would always win in a lightning duel vs Yoda, even though it is only because of physical weaknesses on Yoda's part.

I wouldn't really say that... Palpatine was launched back as well... Yoda was lighter and wasn't standing inside the pod Palps was. Palps actually flew further then Yoda both barely managed to hang on, but Palps succeeded Yoda didn't... If they were in any other possition or Palps wouldn't have been one the inside of that Pod Palps would be screwed.

Ok, Sorgo, let's have some proof Yoda's own power blew it back now, c'mon. Let's have some proof Palpatine was scared there because he knew the danger. And stop dancing aorund this point: Yoda screwed up

Wow, the databank goes against EXACTLY what Lucas said on the commentary! That's a new one....and once handsome features? Okaaaaay......now it's time to prove, even if that's true in the least, that Palpatine didn't allow it to happen to trick Anakin and give his story more credence. According to Lucas, Palpatine was tricking Anakin the whole time with the Force lightning. Now, your turn, Sorgo: Why does lightning affect noone else that way, rot Palp's teeth and turn his eyes Sithy yellow?

And I should ask you why Sidious didn't kill Mace during the....three times Mace left himself open.

And yes, Order's best. Shall I provide quotes? Maybe feats of Agen, Saesee and Kit? That was Palpatine's skill not their weakness.

By the way, Sorgo, I don't disrespect or dislike you, I'm not a Sidious fanboy, nor is he my favorite Sith or character. However, this is my position and I'm sticking to it and if you be civil, I'll return the favor.

Another note is, on the commentary track, Lucas says that the extreme use of the dark side and power has ruined Sidious's features, during the lightning scene, feel free to check it out

Ok, Sorgo, let's have some proof Yoda's own power blew it back now, c'mon. Let's have some proof Palpatine was scared there because he knew the danger. And stop dancing aorund this point: Yoda screwed up

I am not dancing around the point. Do not be a fool. I have clearly told you he screwed up so stop try to catch me in a Corner.... When there is no Corner to catch me in, Lightsnake.

WTF!!!! Yoda absorbed it and released the Lightning with his own power back at Sidious. Sidious KNEW THIS. Did you see the terrified look on his face? The only reason Yoda went back so far was because of his own damned power.

Wow, the databank goes against EXACTLY what Lucas said on the commentary! That's a new one....and once handsome features? Okaaaaay......now it's time to prove, even if that's true in the least, that Palpatine didn't allow it to happen to trick Anakin and give his story more credence. According to Lucas, Palpatine was tricking Anakin the whole time with the Force lightning. Now, your turn, Sorgo: Why does lightning affect noone else that way, rot Palp's teeth and turn his eyes Sithy yellow?

The commentary? Pardon? It says Sidious' face was a cover-up? Since when, Lightsnake?

And I should ask you why Sidious didn't kill Mace during the....three times Mace left himself open.

Sidious didn't have a chance. And it was only ONCE and Sidious' arm was fully extended and Mace was backing off. Sidious wasn't faking it before Anakin walked in so don't try it. GL says it in the commentary and the Databank says it.

And yes, Order's best. Shall I provide quotes? Maybe feats of Agen, Saesee and Kit? That was Palpatine's skill not their weakness.

They all got owned... Badly... They couldn't block a single hit except for the Nautolan. They just aren't that good.

How do you know it wasn't the lightning coupled with having nowhere else to go? That Yoda was ready to give his life to stop Palpatine and Palpatine knew it could have catastrophic results?

The commentary said it was dark side energy Palpatine had used that turned his face like that, not it being reflected in his face. Like I said, since when does lightning ruin your face and turn your eyes yellow?

Fine, I'll attribute the entire fight to poor choreography.
And 'just weren't that good?' Maybe Palpatine just is THAT good. Afterall, why didn't Mace stop him? Why didn't Kit react? All three of those Jedi Mace held in great esteem. Agen's saber skills and Kit's martial arts prowess took even Mace aback

How do you know it wasn't the lightning coupled with having nowhere else to go? That Yoda was ready to give his life to stop Palpatine and Palpatine knew it could have catastrophic results?

Yoda used his own damned force! Why didn't Sidious lightning knock him off in the first place even with Yoda absorbing it? Yoda sent his lightning back with a blast of his own Force. I'm sure Lightning just explodes into a ball. Why wouldn't it stream back to him normally? Why explode in a swirly blue ball? Wait! Maybe Yoda applied some of his own power!

The commentary said it was dark side energy Palpatine had used that turned his face like that, not it being reflected in his face. Like I said, since when does lightning ruin your face and turn your eyes yellow?

Since Sidious decided to be stupid and underestimate Mace.

Fine, I'll attribute the entire fight to poor choreography.
And 'just weren't that good?' Maybe Palpatine just is THAT good. Afterall, why didn't Mace stop him? Why didn't Kit react? All three of those Jedi Mace held in great esteem. Agen's saber skills and Kit's martial arts prowess took even Mace aback

Actually, the entire fight is pretty bad choreography.

If you've seen pictures, Sassee had a perfect opportunity to kill Sidious. There was PLENTY of time between stabs. I have seen the time scale while the movie has been running. And where were Mace and Kit? Having a Coffee? It was BAD choreography. Bottom line.

1. Please, proof Yoda 'used his own force' and intended to make it explode there? PErhaps the explosion had something to do with compression.
2. You're avoiding the question: Why does it only affect Palpatine that way? Why would LIGHTNING /melt/ your face, turn your eyes sithy yellow and rot your teeth?
3. I know, that's what I've always said when people bring up how weak and pathetic Kit, Saesee and Agen were.

1. Well that pretty much is what we see Yoda do, block the attack and then push it back.. Now he cuoldn't have pushed it back without using the force.

2. Burning effect.. He suffered from it harder and longer then most other people. That and the fact that he was using all he had in it, might have made it like that. In Kotor we see Revan his face change because he becomes Dark it might have something like that couppled with the returning lightning.

3. Well they did suck in that fight pure and simple, when you watch that fight its pretty clear that none of them could even lift a finger against Mace who did manage to block more then one attack and who saw it coming.

1. Doesn't mean he made it explode.

2. Luke got fried much longer. Mace got fried the same. And when revan removes his mask, he looks fine. Lucas said on commentary his excessive use of the darkside warped his face.

3. Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, Palpatine is good enough to kill three Jedi Masters of the council in seconds. They sucked up against Palpatine, pure and simple. and I trust Mace's assessment of their skills more than anything else

1. No but it does mean he pushed the force back, the two attacks together probably made it explode because of to much power being concetrated in one area.

2. Not as hard though and Luke didn't do the frying.

3. Yet Mace his assement is completely wrong as we can see in the fight. If he thinks those guys can match him then he has never once fought a real fight against them. Because they got pwned in seconds when Mace actually managed to take Sidious.

Why we are talking about Sidious vs. Mace in a thread with Kanos and Anor, I have no idea, but I'll play along.

Perhaps they were expecting something like Maul out of Sidious. Someone who they would have been able to stand against well for a long time since TPM Obi-wan was able to do it. They probably figured he was the apprentice since Dooku was so much older and stuff.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. Doesn't mean he made it explode.

2. Luke got fried much longer. Mace got fried the same. And when revan removes his mask, he looks fine. Lucas said on commentary his excessive use of the darkside warped his face.

3. Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, Palpatine is good enough to kill three Jedi Masters of the council in seconds. They sucked up against Palpatine, pure and simple. and I trust Mace's assessment of their skills more than anything else

I agree with the second post.
Sidious face started to deform almost in the beginning, so it started at like 6 seconds after he had begun.

Actually on the second thing, it is stated in Kotor and you can clearly see in Kotor that Revan his face changes a lot when he goes Dark.

Mace has trained with and seen those three fight all his life. Is it really so difficult to comprehend Sidious was just THAT good?

1. Please, proof Yoda 'used his own force' and intended to make it explode there? PErhaps the explosion had something to do with compression.
2. You're avoiding the question: Why does it only affect Palpatine that way? Why would LIGHTNING /melt/ your face, turn your eyes sithy yellow and rot your teeth?
3. I know, that's what I've always said when people bring up how weak and pathetic Kit, Saesee and Agen were.

1. So... Yoda absorbs the Lightning and the Lightning changes color, acts as a large ball of energy and doesn't stream back to Sidious but instead converts to an explosive power for no reason? I don't think so.

2. Why not? It's powerful enough. Not all Sith have yellow eyes and rotted teeth. And according to GL, the Dark Side basically eats you alive and rots you. Maybe the capacity of the darkness in his own Lightning enhanced that process.

3. But they are! Did you see the scene? It was so bad.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
overlord:Except there's a few continuity errors if ti was and Ian McDiarmid thinks differently. It was meant to be ambiguous. A triump card? Why WOULDn'T he fake it for Anakin there? And Lucas certainly took a large interest in TOTJ. Crack open either the TOTJ companion or Godlen Age of the Sith.

1. And things from the script mean what if they're not in the movie? Did Anakin fight Greedo on Tatooine? Did Grievous kill Shaak Ti?

2. Exactly. He manipulated Anakin. He lost the battle, won the war.

3. You do know in the ROTJ script, it was Palpatine's death that allowed the rebels to finish what they did? Or there was a little prophecy involved and Palpatine was focused completely on making Luke suffer. And twice the power? Yods wasn't throwing any lightning back, he blocking it. And he screwed it up.

4. Force strength isn't physical. Vodo and Yoda weren't physically imposing. Neither was King Ommin, Count Dooku or Arca Jeth. In build and phsycial strength, Mace>Most anyone. Oh, and those authors need to be approved by Lucas, they work for his company and KJA has known Lucas very well for a while...and this is an EU forum.
Wait, where's the standard here? Obi-wan lost a saber duel to Maul...he was disarmed and hanging on 'like a little girl' And knowing an opponent'd follow you doesn't change the fact you immediately get away from your enemy and recover. And how convenient Anakin came in becase Mace set himself up for being ripped out the window. Palpatine had been manipulating Anakin for years and manipulated him even more with the lightning. please, give a counterexample to how the weak Sidious fired far with far more intensity than when he'd first been using, how lightning didn't affect Luke or anyone else the same way-didn't turn their eyes Sith yellow or rot their teeth! How did the weak Sith get back to his feet as if nothing happened?
Palp's face gave him proof against the Jedi and got him Anakin, to him, I doubt that was a raw deal Ian McDiarmid prefers this theory like many people. I wish it were true also but Lucas clearly intended it to be the reason to why Sidious' face got scarred. Lucas is just cheesy like that. Read the original ROTJ script and find out how much of a writer he is in reality.

As for the well put out theory you made..
It's just not realistic enough that Sidious planned the exact arrival of the jedi and Anakin and knew exactly what was going to happen. It's all too much variables for him to manipulate.
Contrary to popular believes.. Sidious just doesn't control fate.

If the theory was right then Sidious would have controlled Mace and Anakin's minds. Because Mace still fought on his own and it was all up to him whether Palpatine would've died and Anakin coming in at a certain point was just luck too for Sidious.
It's all far too much variables for Sidious to have all had in a grand plan.

Lucas doesn't say that Mace defeated him in his own right for no reason.
Lucas clearly intended that Sidious was very lucky at times due to his skills and also was very unlucky at times just like basic reality.

Originally posted by Sorgo
1. Please, proof Yoda 'used his own force' and intended to make it explode there? PErhaps the explosion had something to do with compression.
2. You're avoiding the question: Why does it only affect Palpatine that way? Why would LIGHTNING /melt/ your face, turn your eyes sithy yellow and rot your teeth?
3. I know, that's what I've always said when people bring up how weak and pathetic Kit, Saesee and Agen were.

1. So... Yoda absorbs the Lightning and the Lightning changes color, acts as a large ball of energy and doesn't stream back to Sidious but instead converts to an explosive power for no reason? I don't think so.

2. Why not? It's powerful enough. Not all Sith have yellow eyes and rotted teeth. And according to GL, the Dark Side basically eats you alive and rots you. Maybe the capacity of the darkness in his own Lightning enhanced that process.

3. But they are! Did you see the scene? It was so bad.

1. Changes color? It was dark blue to violet from the start. And did you read what I said about energy and pressure?

2. Why didn't it effect Anakin, Luke and Mace in that way? lightning wouldn't cause what should be an internal reaction. And why would lightning turn your eyes /SITH YELLOW?/ Maul had those eyes, Anakin had them, Palpatine had them...why would it effect his how high his eyebrows are, teeth and voice? Why's it so unlikely that he just decided to fake the lightning? Ian McDiarmid likes that theory, along with the 'true face idea'....it certainly betters sidious's character and deviousness, it makes sense to why he tried lightning instead of a rudimentary force push or that lightning with the push he used when he actually killed Mace

3. The scene was bad but the Jedi weren't. Unless we believe Jango fett can't duck.

Originally posted by overlord
Ian McDiarmid prefers this theory like many people. I wish it were true also but Lucas clearly intended it to be the reason to why Sidious' face got scarred. Lucas is just cheesy like that. Read the original ROTJ script and find out how much of a writer he is in reality.

As for the well put out theory you made..
It's just not realistic enough that Sidious planned the exact arrival of the jedi and Anakin and knew exactly what was going to happen. It's all too much variables for him to manipulate.
Contrary to popular believes.. Sidious just doesn't control fate.

If the theory was right then Sidious would have controlled Mace and Anakin's minds. Because Mace still fought on his own and it was all up to him whether Palpatine would've died and Anakin coming in at a certain point was just luck too for Sidious.
It's all far too much variables for Sidious to have all had in a grand plan.

Lucas doesn't say that Mace defeated him in his own right for no reason.
Lucas clearly intended that Sidious was very lucky at times due to his skills and also was very unlucky at times just like basic reality.

Sidious doesn't control fate, but he manipulates it well enough. Who says he controlled their minds instead of using what he knew the entire time? Mace was also planning to ARREST Sidious....how suicidal was that?

1. Please, proof Yoda 'used his own force' and intended to make it explode there? PErhaps the explosion had something to do with compression.

My god... Even if it did explode from pure compression, the Lightning still owuld have acted out of control and it would have shocked Sidious. Instead it was a circular blast. It wouldn't convert like that. It was Yoda's blast.


2. You're avoiding the question: Why does it only affect Palpatine that way? Why would LIGHTNING /melt/ your face, turn your eyes sithy yellow and rot your teeth?

Why not? The massive energy of Sidious' darkside energy must have turned into that. Notice how the Siths skin don't rot and turn yellow right away. EG: Dooku, Maul, Anakin.....

Sidious' face looked damned melted. Dark side energies turn your face into that sort of mess. The quick and powerful Force of his Lightning sped up the process.

3. I know, that's what I've always said when people bring up how weak and pathetic Kit, Saesee and Agen were.

Just making sure you at least understood that concept.

1. I don't think either of us can claim to be experts in Force physics....it's pure energy as is and the explosion could be caused from the result of compression from both of them...it'd make no sense for Yoda to attempt something so risky with such a small chance of actual success.

2. Anakin's eyes altered quickly. Why's it so unlikely Sidious's face was already like that and he covered it up? Hell, Ian McDiarmid himself prefers that and has commented on it...though lightning, as shown with Luke, doesn't melt your face-wouldn't it, being pure energy, burn him instead?...all EU sources point to him, the commentary makes comment to the use of the darkside altering him...
3. I understand it just fine, sorgo. My argument is: They weren't bad fighters, the scene just sucked.

2. Ian is not an authority on the matter. His theory's are not important.. What he likes and doesn't like isn't important either. Fact is, that the Dark Side turns you into that.

Fact is that he unleashed more energy into the Dark Side then ever before, its very possible that he was holding back the change through the force because he didn't want to be discovered but when he unleashed the dark side he couldn't anymore. Whatever the case the lightning changed his face, and the rest weren't affected like that because they didn't use the Dark Side to do it and they unlike Sidious weren't the one's that fired the lightning and got it reflected in their own face.

3. They were bad fighters however... They sucked compared to Mace, Sidious took those three out easily then had a hard time with Mace and actually lost. Those three sucked compared to mace pure and simple.

1. Ian plays Sidious, so his thoughts are indeed important.

2. Proof he unleashed more darkside power than ever before? You're operating off pure conjecture.

3. Oh yes, they sucked compared to the bed...I take the evidence of earlier sparring duels with Mace and Mace's comments on them. Sidious was just good enough to kill them in seconds before MACE could react

1. No they are not.. He does not have the authority to say things like that. What if Sam Jackson would say he would like it more if he reflected it with so much power that Mace his face got burned? Is that all of a sudden official? No its not.

2. Unlimited power, he used more power then he used before and as far as we know it was his first real fight against somebody of great power, he would have had no reason to use that much force power before. However your hiding face idea is nice, but has no evidence. Him being turned there because of the lightning and the Dark Side does.

3. So Mace had nice fights against them, then they all got slaughtered in seconds and Mace took Sidious. What does that tel you? Either that those guys were distracted confused or somehow unable to move or really defend themselves. Or that Mace never tried to fight with them. Its impossible that those guys could ever come close to Mace, if they got owned so badly by somebody Mace took out...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sidious doesn't control fate, but he manipulates it well enough. Who says he controlled their minds instead of using what he knew the entire time? Mace was also planning to ARREST Sidious....how suicidal was that? As long as you know that the 'grand plan' theory some people have is nothing more than that and clearly not what Lucas intended.

Lucas indeed toned down the legend of Sidious as portrayed in the OT and made him slip up due to overconfidence or something but made him lucky that his plan still worked out somewhat as he expected.
It is just clear that he wasn't in complete control at all times. Tough luck for his fans.. (and even the actor who portrayed him)

1. Considering Sam and Ian have access to the script...Lucas could say Luke was a big cat in disguise..../can/, /should/ and /will/ are three very different things.

2. Yes, the lord of the darkside had never fought someone before...he was described by Maul as a fighter of incredible proportions. The hiding your face idea has more evidence than "Errrr......it was the lightning scarring him." Especially when a man who plays the character, gets into his head, reads the script, has access to Lucas and the like backs it up.

3. That Sidious never fought seriously against Mace, that's what it tells me. Especially as the level of his quality fighting goes down. And he doesn't kill Mace-who fails to react to save Kit even, so uber. and Mace's word carries far more weight than any speculation on fans' part

If anything the PT elaborated on Sidious as a genius and mastermind.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. Considering Sam and Ian have access to the script...Lucas could say Luke was a big cat in disguise..../can/, /should/ and /will/ are three very different things.

2. Yes, the lord of the darkside had never fought someone before...he was described by Maul as a fighter of incredible proportions. The hiding your face idea has more evidence than "Errrr......it was the lightning scarring him." Especially when a man who plays the character, gets into his head, reads the script, has access to Lucas and the like backs it up.

3. That Sidious never fought seriously against Mace, that's what it tells me. Especially as the level of his quality fighting goes down. And he doesn't kill Mace-who fails to react to save Kit even, so uber. and Mace's word carries far more weight than any speculation on fans' part

If anything the PT elaborated on Sidious as a genius and mastermind.

You're a Sidious fanboy, you do know that right?

Defending a character suddenly makes you a fanboy. Good to know. All hail Sorgo who is qualified to make all judgements and whose word is all

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Defending a character suddenly makes you a fanboy. Good to know. All hail Sorgo who is qualified to make all judgements and whose word is all


When you praise that character constantly, bring him up during different arguements that don't involve him and saying he is basically the most Powerful guy in the SWU?


^ All Qualifications of a Fanboy. Looks like you're hired.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. Considering Sam and Ian have access to the script...Lucas could say Luke was a big cat in disguise..../can/, /should/ and /will/ are three very different things.

2. Yes, the lord of the darkside had never fought someone before...he was described by Maul as a fighter of incredible proportions. The hiding your face idea has more evidence than "Errrr......it was the lightning scarring him." Especially when a man who plays the character, gets into his head, reads the script, has access to Lucas and the like backs it up.

3. That Sidious never fought seriously against Mace, that's what it tells me. Especially as the level of his quality fighting goes down. And he doesn't kill Mace-who fails to react to save Kit even, so uber. and Mace's word carries far more weight than any speculation on fans' part

If anything the PT elaborated on Sidious as a genius and mastermind.

1. still doesn't mean anything, his word is not cannon.

2. And Maul is suddenly somebody that could know that, if your a mediocere fighter yourself everybody will seem great. You become great when described as great by the greats.

3. already talked about this on MSN the conclusion was you have no proof that Sids faked anything so you can't use it in a debate.

Bringing him up in arguments where it's relevent? Strongest guy in Star Wars? I suppose if I'm not including Jacen Solo, Luke Skywalker, Leia if she ever manages to get a damn thing done with her power and Anakin Solo at full and possibly Yoda....
Strongest Sith isn't the strongest guy

And Fishy:
1. It's still an indictator one way
2. Maul learned to fight from Sidious, fought Sidious and has seen him fight. And he WAS described as great by the greats.
3. By the time we talked on MSN, this was....far obsolete

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Bringing him up in arguments where it's relevent? Strongest guy in Star Wars? I suppose if I'm not including Jacen Solo, Luke Skywalker, Leia if she ever manages to get a damn thing done with her power and Anakin Solo at full and possibly Yoda....
Strongest Sith isn't the strongest guy

And Fishy:
1. It's still an indictator one way
2. Maul learned to fight from Sidious, fought Sidious and has seen him fight. And he WAS described as great by the greats.
3. By the time we talked on MSN, this was....far obsolete

Relevant? I have seen you use him before in different arguments and you'll go as far as beginning to splurge about his accomplishments and how powerful he is when it isn't necessary AT ALL.

As opposed to random bashings of him that people used with no relevance? And in discussions on power, I'd call them pretty damn relevant.

But back on topic anyways....when've we seen Nom Anor display any of the skill Kir Kanos did?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
As opposed to random bashings of him that people used with no relevance? And in discussions on power, I'd call them pretty damn relevant.

But back on topic anyways....when've we seen Nom Anor display any of the skill Kir Kanos did?

Stop whining about how Sidious isn't appreciated on these Forums as well.


It's bloody ridiculous how much you and Escape both complain about how much he isn't appreciated.

http://theforce.jaymach.com/images/Amphistaff.JPG

Anor's kick ass Amphistaff.

Is there a complete pic of the holder os that just a Tsaisi?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Is there a complete pic of the holder os that just a Tsaisi?



Go to the SW Databank and look at Nom Anor's profile.

Databank SEZZZZZZ:

Under his list of weapons, an Amphistaff will be one of them.


Don't believe me? You have the internet. Go find out for yourself, Lightsnake.

I was asking a serious question, I know Nom's used an amphistaff, I was curious igf there was a pic of him using one or if it was the general baton of rank. Hell, Harrar used a Tsaisi and a coufee

Amphistaffs are the primary anti-personnel weapons of the Yuuzhan Vong. They are bioformed, handheld serpents that can attack in a variety of ways. They are, on average, 2-3 meters long and have skins so thick that they cannot be penetrated by a lightsaber unless preweakened (this happened in The Unifying Force). In addition to their default staff/spear configuration, amphistaffs can be wielded as a whip, wrapping around a target then biting it or prompted to spray deadly toxins at its victim. They can also bite their victims causing intense blinding pain. Another form of attack for an amphistaff is to turn into a blade that is an atom thick that its master can wield. Once the master of an amphistaff is deceased, the staff will continue attacking the assailant until either of them is dead. Normally, an amphistaff is to be wrapped around a warrior's waist, though a higher-ranking warrior would have his amphistaff wrapped around his arm.


Kir Kanos would have a weeeee bit of trouble with that.

However, Kir's order was supposed to be on par with the Jedi, being royal guards....and Kir is DAMN good for a RG...the man manages to shoot at a tie fighter and kill the pilot. Moreover, an amphistaff would be formidable in the hands of a warrior....Nom is not a fighter. He has his moments, but he pales in comparison to most people and he's got a massive coward's streak

Originally posted by Lightsnake
However, Kir's order was supposed to be on par with the Jedi, being royal guards....and Kir is DAMN good for a RG...the man manages to shoot at a tie fighter and kill the pilot. Moreover, an amphistaff would be formidable in the hands of a warrior....Nom is not a fighter. He has his moments, but he pales in comparison to most people and he's got a massive coward's streak

Sidious has a Coward Streak. A large one at that. Not to mention he wasn't really a fighter and look how much damage he managed to do?

We haven't seen Nom in much action either. He was more of a Political Arbiter and a Bio Engineer for the YV.

Sidious wasn't a member of a heavily indoctrinated warrior race. Nom was amazed Mara let him live after he was begging on his knees. He even murdered one man fighting FOR him,. who'd given his life for him just to use his blood to conceal his face

We've seen Nom fight too...he's not an elite vong fighter. Harrar would've wasted him if not for stupid wet rocks

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sidious wasn't a member of a heavily indoctrinated warrior race. Nom was amazed Mara let him live after he was begging on his knees. He even murdered one man fighting FOR him,. who'd given his life for him just to use his blood to conceal his face

We've seen Nom fight too...he's not an elite vong fighter. Harrar would've wasted him if not for stupid wet rocks



Kind of like how Sidious begged Mace... Heh... Except he was on his ass.


If Harrar was good enough, he would have withstanded the rocks like Nom.

When did he beg him? It's incredibly obvious he was faking that entire bit to get Anakin to turn, Sorgo.

And slipping on rain soaked rocks when attacking a stable opponent is NOT being worse than your opponent. Nom was stabled and not heading towqards the cliff edge. Harrar had already proven himself to outclass Nom completely

Originally posted by Lightsnake
When did he beg him? It's incredibly obvious he was faking that entire bit to get Anakin to turn, Sorgo.

And slipping on rain soaked rocks when attacking a stable opponent is NOT being worse than your opponent. Nom was stabled and not heading towqards the cliff edge. Harrar had already proven himself to outclass Nom completely

It's obvious? You think if he was defeated and Anakin didn't show he still wouldn't beg for his life? It was also incredibly obvious that he was a Coward and that he wouldn't put all he had in stake by being a smart ass to a Jedi who wanted to kill him. Either way, there would have been some serious begging.

Harrar lost. Bottom line. Either way he was insuperior and wasn't aware of his surroundings, so he died.

The conjecture doesn't work here: He was lying to turn Anakin. Lucas himself says Sidious was faking after Anakin entered the room on the commentary

Harrar LIVED. And he totally outclassed Nom. Nom had nothing to do with his falling. I could name quite a few times Nom got completely careless...hell, he got his hand removed by LEIA

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The conjecture doesn't work here: He was lying to turn Anakin. Lucas himself says Sidious was faking after Anakin entered the room on the commentary

Harrar LIVED. And he totally outclassed Nom. Nom had nothing to do with his falling. I could name quite a few times Nom got completely careless...hell, he got his hand removed by LEIA

He was also scrambling away like a scared child when he fell on his ass.

So... The conjecture isn't relevant?

He wouldn't have begged for his life if Anakin hadn't shown up? The same thing would have happened.

So? Sidious was chucked over a damned Generator.

Leia was a considerably powerful Jedi.

Didn't we go over this? WHAT THE HELL is so wrong about 'getting away from the man with the saber?' And the same thing wouldn't have happened if Anakin didn't show up, because Palpatine would have destroyed Windu in the Force. Issues believing he faked/exaggerrated his weakness/tricked Anakin? Take it up with Lucas.

And Nom has nothing to do with Sidious. And Leia powerful by that time? She realized she sucked soon after and got training from Saba

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Didn't we go over this? WHAT THE HELL is so wrong about 'getting away from the man with the saber?' And the same thing wouldn't have happened if Anakin didn't show up, because Palpatine would have destroyed Windu in the Force. Issues believing he faked/exaggerrated his weakness/tricked Anakin? Take it up with Lucas.

And Nom has nothing to do with Sidious. And Leia powerful by that time? She realized she sucked soon after and got training from Saba


Indeed we did go over this.

Mace was at a safe distance and Palpatine did not have to scramble away like a Coward. Actually, maybe he was extremely tired and had to lean against the wall.

Lucas already talked to a few million people over the DVD.

Mace OVERPOWERED Sidious before Anakin walked in. There wasn't a single shed of fake behaviour before Anakin made his appearance. He was beaten by Windu. Sidious had already tried to blast Mace but failed miserably.

Uh... Leia's political life interfered with her Jedi Training. Databank Sez so.

Lightsnake we already discussed the entire faking part on MSN.... You have no evidence for it, so stop saying its true. It might be, but you don't know so you can't claim it is. Pure and simple.

Fishy, I'm not arguing about the saber part, however Lucas said he was faking from then on.

Didn't have to scramble away? Did Luke when Palpatine beat him in a saber duel? Did Kun when Vodo whooped him? Learn a bit about fighting. Yoda ran away like a little girl! Mace screamed like a little *****!

Explain, Sorgo, why Lucas said Palpatine was exagerrating AFTER Anakin came in. And how he manages to go back with "UNLIMITED POWER!" IT's so damn obvious he faked the lightning. That was even discussed on Star Wars.com. Proof he failed miserably whatsoever. Explain Sidious eyeing Anakin with a smirk on his face as they discuss whether to kill him. Lucas said "We had Mace overpowering Palpatine, than Anakin comes in and he fakes, exagerrates etc etc etc."

EU's already established Palpatine could alter his face, EU's already established he was capable of far greater lightning....proof he didn't fake for Anakin's benefit. NOW

We also argued the lightning part and we still came to the conclusion that you have no evidence. Pure and simple.

also he doesn't need to proof anything you are making an assumption when you say that Sidious could have destroyed Mace. There is nothing to proof this. For all we know he really lost. Pure and simple.

Lucas quote.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Fishy, I'm not arguing about the saber part, however Lucas said he was faking from then on.

Didn't have to scramble away? Did Luke when Palpatine beat him in a saber duel? Did Kun when Vodo whooped him? Learn a bit about fighting. Yoda ran away like a little girl! Mace screamed like a little *****!

No, he didn't! Sidious had no reason to scramble. He was kicked onto his ass and was about a foot and a half away then he started scrambling so Mace followed.

Explain, Sorgo, why Lucas said Palpatine was exagerrating AFTER Anakin came in. And how he manages to go back with "UNLIMITED POWER!" IT's so damn obvious he faked the lightning. That was even discussed on Star Wars.com. Proof he failed miserably whatsoever. Explain Sidious eyeing Anakin with a smirk on his face as they discuss whether to kill him. Lucas said "We had Mace overpowering Palpatine, than Anakin comes in and he fakes, exagerrates etc etc etc."

That's bullshit! How the hell would Sidious know Mace obtained the skill to block his Lightning? Why did Sidious do it with such vigor and in front of Anakin? Why do something so sadistic and dark sided in front of Anakin such as frying Mace with Lightning? And why would the man fry his face purposely to induce Anakin? He is supposed to be an Uber Intelligent power, right? Why would someone so smart fry his own damn face like an Idiot... Especially when it says on the Databank that the Lightning melted and disfigured his face?

EU's already established Palpatine could alter his face, EU's already established he was capable of far greater lightning....proof he didn't fake for Anakin's benefit. NOW

Lmao!

You want proof when *YOU* can't provide any? Yeah okay buddy.

Provide proof that the Lightning didn't actually melt Sidious' face EVEN when the Databank SEZ so.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Lucas quote.

Again we already discussed this, the Lucas quote does not refer directly to that part. So it doesn't really matter.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
EU's already established Palpatine could alter his face, EU's already established he was capable of far greater lightning....proof he didn't fake for Anakin's benefit. NOW

...Wait. Did you just ask someone to prove a negative again?

He's claiming he didn't, I've provided evidence....his turn, IKC\

Yes, sorgo...no reason to scramble....except for Mace's saber inches away. And GEE! He'd only studied Mace for HOW many years? And of course, the master manipulator would never consider throwing a face away to gain the Chosen One as a prodigy to eliminate the Jedi Order and control the galaxy...certainly gave him a lotta sympathy in the senate, hm? And the databank goes against any bit of evidence there. Lucas said he was faking there, and exagerrating weakness. Please, the man who manipulated a galaxy into war would NEVER give up a face and feign weakness.

Lightsnake...

What they show us is Anakin saving Sidious.. you have to proof that he didn't, you have to proof that Sidious faked it. Because that goes against what we have seen.

And in the EU, it's the exact opposite. Hell, in one story we see Palpatine alter his face at will.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He's claiming he didn't, I've provided evidence....his turn, IKC\

Yes, sorgo...no reason to scramble....except for Mace's saber inches away. And GEE! He'd only studied Mace for HOW many years? And of course, the master manipulator would never consider throwing a face away to gain the Chosen One as a prodigy to eliminate the Jedi Order and control the galaxy...certainly gave him a lotta sympathy in the senate, hm? And the databank goes against any bit of evidence there. Lucas said he was faking there, and exaggerating weakness. Please, the man who manipulated a galaxy into war would NEVER give up a face and feign weakness.


Lucas said he was faking. Lucas said he was exaggerating weakness.

Did Lucas say Palpatine DIDN'T melt his face from the Lightning? No!

So.... What does the Databank go against?

Maces Lightsaber wasn't inches away and Sidious DID NOT have to go scramble to the wall like he did. He was scared and If Anakin didn't show up, he still would have begged for his pathetic life due to the fact he wanted to follow through with his plans so badly.

The databank only goes against what Lucas says "Dark side exertion melts his face" and EU material.

Yes, let's have proof he would've begged...and BEFORE Palpatine moves back, Mace steps forward

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The databank only goes against what Lucas says "Dark side exertion melts his face" and EU material.

Yes, let's have proof he would've begged...and BEFORE Palpatine moves back, Mace steps forward

He would have stabbed him, because according to you, it was two inches away from his face.

If Sidious is so smart, why didn't he realize Mace would've followed him to the wall and they would be back at Step 1 again?


Dark side exertion melts his face? You mean like... Exerting Lightning?

Because moving back to the wall beats sitting in one place while the Jedi master moves forward to skewer you through the place and gives you an area of leverage so noone can blindside or get behind you? We've seen Palpatine in worse situations before and he's never begged, not once...in Empire's End, his last words were simple hatred. In DE, he cursed Anakin Solo.

And Lucas said Dark Side exertion turned his face to the emperor's we know.

Because moving back to the wall beats sitting in one place while the Jedi master moves forward to skewer you through the place and gives you an area of leverage so noone can blindside or get behind you?

We've seen Palpatine in worse situations before and he's never begged, not once...in Empire's End, his last words were simple hatred. In DE, he cursed Anakin Solo.

All I heard on ROTJ was "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

He wasn't moving forward to skewer him. He would have shoved his Lightsaber through him in the wall at Sidious' dead end if he wanted to kill him right away. Sidious moved because he was scared, man.





And Lucas said Dark Side exertion turned his face to the emperor's we know.

Lightning isn't the Dark side and using it isn't exertion of it? C'mon now, man!

Good thing ROTJ wasn't his final death.

And 'Using Dark Side power' isn't 'having it reflected in your face.' Lucas made no mention it was the lightning scarring him whatsoever. And when you see a man slowly stalking towards you with a saber, you MOVE and the wall was the safest place

Good thing ROTJ wasn't his final death.

Bad thing that the Ancient Sith spirits you claim are so weak compared to him resurrected his sorry little spirit.

And 'Using Dark Side power' isn't 'having it reflected in your face.' Lucas made no mention it was the lightning scarring him whatsoever. And when you see a man slowly stalking towards you with a saber, you MOVE and the wall was the safest place

Did Lucas mention it was him who did it on purpose? No, and don't you DARE try to assume so because we both know he didn't.

It isn't? Using Dark side powers and then having them come back at your face is exertion of Dark Side powers. Especially Lightning.

He wasn't stalking him. He would've continued and killed Sidious if he was meaning to stab him. Sidious was scared and Mace knew that.

The Ancient Sith ressurected him? Yeah right...after Endor he possessed Jeng Droga and went to Byss to his clones. Until Empire's End, the Ancient Sith hadn't seen him in ten years.

Exertion would be using it...having it reflected in your face is it 'backfiring'...and again, lightning in your face doesn't change your teeth, hair,, voice, eyebrows or turn your eyes yellow. Mace meant to capture him and was menacing him with a saber anyways. Which was suicidal to the extreme as it was

The Ancient Sith ressurected him? Yeah right...after Endor he possessed Jeng Droga and went to Byss to his clones. Until Empire's End, the Ancient Sith hadn't seen him in ten years.

Sorry to ruin your party, but...

After his spirit was resurrected from the netherworld of the Force by the Dark Lord ghosts of Korriban, Palpatine took possession of the body of the Emperor's Hand Jeng Droga

Exertion would be using it...having it reflected in your face is it 'backfiring'...and again, lightning in your face doesn't change your teeth, hair,, voice, eyebrows or turn your eyes yellow. Mace meant to capture him and was menacing him with a saber anyways. Which was suicidal to the extreme as it was

Actually, Exertion can expand to a great deal of things.

Backfiring? Dude, not at all.

Suicidal? It seemed Palpatine f*cking with Mace was Suicidal, because he got overpowered.

Of course the Dark Side energies twisted his Avatar, but HIS FACE MELTING was a product of Lightning.

Source. In Empire's End, they say they hadn't seen him in ten years. What I read says: After the destruction of the second Death Star, Palpatine's spirit was forced to journey in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void, eventually taking possession of the body of Emperor's Hand Jeng Droga. Though Droga went mad in the process, he was able to journey to Byss, where Palpatine was able to take possession of a clone of himself.

The lightning twisted his face? Which is why, in Sithisis, we see him change his face at will?

I'd dispute that Wiki article....it says right after SATE PESTAGE channeled Palp's spirit into a clone....Sate wasn't a force sensitive and the Korriban Ghosts didn't show up until EE and any involvement with Palp is never even hinted at

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Source. In Empire's End, they say they hadn't seen him in ten years. What I read says: After the destruction of the second Death Star, Palpatine's spirit was forced to journey in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void, eventually taking possession of the body of Emperor's Hand Jeng Droga. Though Droga went mad in the process, he was able to journey to Byss, where Palpatine was able to take possession of a clone of himself.

The lightning twisted his face? Which is why, in Sithisis, we see him change his face at will?


The evil energies twisted Palpatine's face as they flowed through him, scarring and disfiguring his once handsome features. His eyes burned yellow, his voice grew ragged and deep, and he became a well of dark side energies.


Ah... His eyes burned yellow.

Scarring and disfiguring?

The Official Star Wars Website isn't no damn wikipedia, Lightsnake.

Burned Sith yellow? Lightning would blind you, not turn your eyes the exat shade of yellow Sith have

STILL no explanation to how Lucas says otherwise and the EU is explicitly clear otherwise

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Burned Sith yellow? Lightning would blind you, not turn your eyes the exat shade of yellow Sith have

STILL no explanation to how Lucas says otherwise and the EU is explicitly clear otherwise


Lucas doesn't say otherwise on my part either, now does he?



Lightning would blind you?

Dude, this isn't real life. It's Star Wars and it's Dark sided, no good uber powerful Lightning.

We saw Mace charred to the bone and he was cosmetically fine...Luke had lying coming out his mouth and his face didn't suffer....Lucas says it was the exertion of the Dark side changing him. He said NOTHING along the lines of lightning scarring him

Originally posted by Lightsnake
We saw Mace charred to the bone and he was cosmetically fine...Luke had lying coming out his mouth and his face didn't suffer....Lucas says it was the exertion of the Dark side changing him. He said NOTHING along the lines of lightning scarring him

He was EXERTING a Dark side power on himself.

Mace wasn't blasted as long and Palpatine was keeping the Lightning to a minimum with Luke as means of Torture.

Funny how that's not what Lucas says at all. Never says anything about it being reflected back at him at all.

And at the end, Palpatine had stopped torturing Luke...and Mace was blasted long enough for his face to wither...happened to Palp almost instantly

Funny how that's not what Lucas says at all. Never says anything about it being reflected back at him at all.

Oh yeah. It wasn't reflected back it him.

I seem to recall it hitting Anakin.

I don't seem to recall Lucas saying that Palpatine had hidden his face in Dark Side cloaking OR that he made that happen to his face by will.

And at the end, Palpatine had stopped torturing Luke...and Mace was blasted long enough for his face to wither...happened to Palp almost instantly

No. Mace was not blasted as long as Palpatine was. THAT is quite obvious.

Luke wasn't blasted as long as Palpatine in that situation either.

This is, of course, not to mention the fact that Palpatine was being hit with his own lightning, reflected off a lightsaber. In the other cases you repeatedly cite, Lightsnake, the lightning came directly from the source, hitting someone who was not the source.

Originally posted by IKC
This is, of course, not to mention the fact that Palpatine was being hit with his own lightning, reflected off a lightsaber. In the other cases you repeatedly cite, Lightsnake, the lightning came directly from the source, hitting someone who was not the source.

That's a good point as well.

Yes, because that'd make a lick of difference. Did Lucas say Palpatine's use of the Dark Side had turned his face into the Emperor we'd know later and the EU has shown him altering his face at will...

And when Palpatine was hit, his face was deformed almost instantly. Mace was charred to the bone and his face remained totally fine when he was hurled away. Blasted long enough for face to melt totally? Maybe not, but for face to change somewhat? Yep

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yes, because that'd make a lick of difference. Did Lucas say Palpatine's use of the Dark Side had turned his face into the Emperor we'd know later and the EU has shown him altering his face at will...

And when Palpatine was hit, his face was deformed almost instantly. Mace was charred to the bone and his face remained totally fine when he was hurled away. Blasted long enough for face to melt totally? Maybe not, but for face to change somewhat? Yep

For all you know, Palpatines first blast was like Uber Powerful.

His second blast was mean't to keep Mace there for a bit of Torture-time.

Then he just blasted him out of the window.

Proof it was to torture Mace.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Proof it was to torture Mace.

Prove that Sidious' face wasn't melted.

Prove that Mace wasn't tortured.


Funny how someone who could apparently shift his face back and fourth seemed to lose the ability to change it back.... Isn't that weird? Funny how the Databank says his face was melted. Funny how it says it basically turned his eyes yellow.

This one's definately a slobber-knocker, but I'ma hafta go with Nom.