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Day of vengeance came out and it was a good one.Some have died and something is gonna happen to spectre..................

Originally posted by thesilverspider
Day of vengeance came out and it was a good one.Some have died and something is gonna happen to spectre.................. DOV had been out around 3 months now.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
DOV had been out around 3 months now.
not the new one buddy...............

You mean the one shot?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
You mean the one shot?
yes

Oh, I went to my LCS and their shipment was delayed until tomorrow.

So I have to wait until then. I better stay out of this thread.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Oh, I went to my LCS and their shipment was delayed until tomorrow.

So I have to wait until then. I better stay out of this thread.
yes you should...............

I feel sorry for Captain Marvel...

Originally posted by The Ion
I feel sorry for Captain Marvel...
I don't..............

wonder who's spectre's host will be..............

So is Marvel gonna be like, the new Shazam?

He's a 16 year old kid trapped inside a rock for all eternity. Even with the power of Shazam that would suck.

Spectre's new host will be Jim Corrigan. I'm 90% sure of it.

Originally posted by The Ion
He's a 16 year old kid trapped inside a rock for all eternity. Even with the power of Shazam that would suck.

Spectre's new host will be Jim Corrigan. I'm 90% sure of it.

to bad for marvel.............

Well it should be corrigan.

and wonder who the next dr.fate would be.......

I wanted detective chimp to be the next dr.fate................

Got it and was impressed with it. Little suprized that one character died...bring in the 10th Age.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
So is Marvel gonna be like, the new Shazam?
Guess so...

I just hope the new Fate is someone we've seen before and not some new person like Blue Beetle.

Originally posted by The Ion
I just hope the new Fate is someone we've seen before and not some new person like Blue Beetle.
It's someone new I know it.......

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Got it and was impressed with it. Little suprized that one character died...bring in the 10th Age.

Yea that really sucked imo. I hope thats not realy the case and decide to bring that character back. I find that whole return a waste now.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Yea that really sucked imo. I hope thats not realy the case and decide to bring that character back. I find that whole return a waste now.

Yeah I really thought with Nabu actually back he would have done much more than that. I wonder what is going on with Hector after the recent issue of JSA. He's dead, but there is more to it.

Oh my GOd I just had an epiphany.....

What if Ted Kord is the New Spectre ???

OMG !!!

I have it on good authority that Apache Chief is the new Spectre.

ENUCH CHUCK!

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yeah I really thought with Nabu actually back he would have done much more than that. I wonder what is going on with Hector after the recent issue of JSA. He's dead, but there is more to it.

Didn't the Sand man take him into his realm ? .... e.g. Guiman's Sandman

When did the new Ble Beetle arrive ?

Originally posted by The Ion
I have it on good authority that Apache Chief is the new Spectre.

ENUCH CHUCK!

Dawns dad ?

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Didn't the Sand man take him into his realm ? .... e.g. Guiman's Sandman

When did the new Ble Beetle arrive ?

Yes

He hasn't offically appeared yet, just a kid found the blue scrab

Yeah, some kid name Jaime found it in Texas. Apparently he'll be going toe to toe with Guy Gardner.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4323/bluebeetle200512200933369451fx.th.jpg

Originally posted by The Ion
Yeah, some kid name Jaime found it in Texas. Apparently he'll be going toe to toe with Guy Gardner.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4323/bluebeetle200512200933369451fx.th.jpg

That a preview page from Blue Bettle #1?

Whats the 'great force' that will be released in Crisis 4 ?( Preview from Superman hompepage )

Originally posted by King_Mungi
That a preview page from Blue Bettle #1?
Yup.

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Whats the 'great force' that will be released in Crisis 4 ?( Preview from Superman hompepage ) Earth-2 Superman?

The great force is whatever Donna Troy's space team and the GLC are about to confront in the middle of the universe.

I remember reading somewhere that this so called "great force" is supposed to rival Darkseid.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I remember reading somewhere that this so called "great force" is supposed to rival Darkseid.

Thats taken from Wizard .... but i thinks its a different force ...

What ever it is Alex is obvioulsy in control of it as he is proposing to destroy earth 1. Its obvioulsy not the Anti Monitor, as he is attached to that machine of Alex's .... Imperiex anyone ?

3 villains is too much for a 7 issue story. It's probably just Alex or one of his devices.

So Spectre wins, and no one opposed him till God stepped in.
So much for everyone who doubted me when I said that would happen, lol.


Corrigan may very well be the New Spectre... as it was said previously that Corrigan's soul and the Spectre are linked in some way. It seems he'll always end up as Spectre in one way or another. Hell, two of his series' ended up with him as no longer the Spectre. lol.
I've been collecting the Gotham series lately, since he's been introduced, to find out what he's about.

Originally posted by The Ion
Yeah, some kid name Jaime found it in Texas. Apparently he'll be going toe to toe with Guy Gardner.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4323/bluebeetle200512200933369451fx.th.jpg New Blue Beatle looks tite.

Originally posted by The Ion
He's a 16 year old kid trapped inside a rock for all eternity. Even with the power of Shazam that would suck.

Spectre's new host will be Jim Corrigan. I'm 90% sure of it. either him or bruce (the hint in IC#1 was just too much of an obvious hint for this). They also hinted about alex luthor being society lex as far back as VU#6, and im surprised that i didnt see it then

I ruled out Bruce once I saw that he was having absolutely no part in the Spectre storyline. He just found out who took out one of his closest friends in the JLA only to get turned into Spectre? Probably not happening. The Batsignal was just a cool image.

I liked blue beetle and all. Did booster know the computer was going to blow up and that's why he took BB's place?

I wish Batman were the Spectre...I mean, c'mon...that book would sale tons.

Originally posted by long pig
I liked blue beetle and all. Did booster know the computer was going to blow up and that's why he took BB's place?

I wish Batman were the Spectre...I mean, c'mon...that book would sale tons. They'd gain a cool Spectre, but they'd lose what like 5-6 Batman books, and 9 other monthly appearances. I don't think it equals out money wise.

Since Black Alice with Spectre's power could effect Spectre who was basically in astral form, doesn't that mean Spectre can't effect someone in astral form either?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
He hasn't offically appeared yet, just a kid found the blue scrab

JESUS CHRIST, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

*cough*

Having a character use the same name as a dead super hero, without actually being that hero, is just a cheap way to try to cash in on his popularity. This kind of bullsh*t is why I've pretty much stopped reading superhero comics.

Originally posted by long pig
Since Black Alice with Spectre's power could effect Spectre who was basically in astral form, doesn't that mean Spectre can't effect someone in astral form either? He is able to.

hell yeah he is

Originally posted by Juntai
He is able to. Why is he able to when she couldn't? Better control? Knows what he's doing?

So what is the 'Great Force' in the middle of the Universe doing all sorts of stuff to it? Imperiex Prime??? or is it God??? also when did God somehow step in and fix Spectre?? I haven't read that yet.

Oh never mind about the Spectre thing. I gotta run over to the comic shop later today to pick up Day of Vengaence. I'm still wondering why Michael wasn't the 1 that put Spectre in line, since he usually does it. Maybe he really is dead since it was show in Lucifer that he died.

Also about Lucifer, i'm wondering if anyone has heard of this. I read on another forums pages about comics that while COIE was happening Lucifer only talked about it 1 time, he said "the worlds may be ending, but its not MY world", sorta leading ppl to think the Vertigo Universe is separate from the DCU, but still somehow connected. Also since God has supposedly left the Vertigo Universe but we see God in the DC Universe (that's whats been said, i have not read it yet so i'll get it soon enough).

Also i've been wondering, would anyone like to see a Michael comic book out, do we see enough of him in Spectre and Lucifer??? would it be as popular as a Spectre comic or Lucifer comic???? I know he's dead but God could always bring him back.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Why is he able to when she couldn't? Better control? Knows what he's doing? Probably.

Originally posted by kevdude
Oh never mind about the Spectre thing. I gotta run over to the comic shop later today to pick up Day of Vengaence. I'm still wondering why Michael wasn't the 1 that put Spectre in line, since he usually does it. Maybe he really is dead since it was show in Lucifer that he died.

Also about Lucifer, i'm wondering if anyone has heard of this. I read on another forums pages about comics that while COIE was happening Lucifer only talked about it 1 time, he said "the worlds may be ending, but its not MY world", sorta leading ppl to think the Vertigo Universe is separate from the DCU, but still somehow connected. Also since God has supposedly left the Vertigo Universe but we see God in the DC Universe (that's whats been said, i have not read it yet so i'll get it soon enough).

Also i've been wondering, would anyone like to see a Michael comic book out, do we see enough of him in Spectre and Lucifer??? would it be as popular as a Spectre comic or Lucifer comic???? I know he's dead but God could always bring him back. Lucifer was referring to his creation which exists outside of yahweh's creation and seperate to elaine's creation.
'god' has left the DCU. That is the yahweh aspect of the DC god, but the prescence and the source are still there, so it's a part of god. THe 'higher power' probably referrs to elaine ot the prescence.
and btw, archangel michael is dead.

Originally posted by eleveninches
Lucifer was referring to his creation which exists outside of yahweh's creation and seperate to elaine's creation.
'god' has left the DCU. That is the yahweh aspect of the DC god, but the prescence and the source are still there, so it's a part of god. THe 'higher power' probably referrs to elaine ot the prescence.
and btw, archangel michael is dead.

Vertigo isnt part of main DC continuity so none of this is right.

You have no evidence to say Yahweh is an aspect of the DC God thats unsupported anywhere. In Vertigo Yahweh is the supreme being and the Presence and Source and so on are aspects of it.

Theres been nothing to indicate what youre claiming. If you believe there is then feel free to direct me to the appropriate issue.

Most of the Veftigo books are in DC continuity, but I know Preacher isn't, not to sure if Lucifer is a stand alone book as well, but since we have seen The Source in it, that points to it being a part of DC continuity. When Lucifer said that about his world he said it when ther was no Lucifer creation! the Crisis happened in 1985 which he talked about it in 1986 (from what i've heard anyway) and he never had his own universe in 1986.

the Lords of Order and Chaos was working together to bring God around so he could somehow get Spectre under control, this could point to any number of things as God never leaving the DCU because the Lords never acted like it even happened, DCU and VU could be separate but still connected in a way somehow, Lucifer could be a stand alone book but seeing that it's the same as Sandman Lucifer its then in DC Continuity, God shown could have been Elaine getting Spectre under control since she is now the God as shown in Lucifer.

Until we see Michael in DC we really don't know if hes dead or not, or unless Spectre or someone else in DC Heaven talks about his death.

Originally posted by kevdude
Most of the Veftigo books are in DC continuity, but I know Preacher isn't, not to sure if Lucifer is a stand alone book as well, but since we have seen The Source in it, that points to it being a part of DC continuity. When Lucifer said that about his world he said it when ther was no Lucifer creation! the Crisis happened in 1985 which he talked about it in 1986 (from what i've heard anyway) and he never had his own universe in 1986.

the Lords of Order and Chaos was working together to bring God around so he could somehow get Spectre under control, this could point to any number of things as God never leaving the DCU because the Lords never acted like it even happened, DCU and VU could be separate but still connected in a way somehow, Lucifer could be a stand alone book but seeing that it's the same as Sandman Lucifer its then in DC Continuity, God shown could have been Elaine getting Spectre under control since she is now the God as shown in Lucifer.

Until we see Michael in DC we really don't know if hes dead or not, or unless Spectre or someone else in DC Heaven talks about his death.

All speculation and still no conclusive evidence for you to treat it as the truth in debate.

Have you though that Lucifer could have been referring to hell?

Theres no evidence whatsoever to claim that the Lucifer title is part of the Dc continuity. Not once has a multiverse been mentioned in the title (Obviously theres one now with Lucifer and Elaines own recently made creations), Crisis on Infinite Earths hasnt been referred to once and nor has the more recent Infinite Crisis which could hardly be ignored. None of the DC heroes have been featured in the title and Gods absence and the subsequent affects of that as shown in Lucifer hasnt been referred to at all in any DC title. It all points to them being seperate in terms of continuity just like Marvel and Maxx. Until its conclusively stated to be the case you cant claim it so.

Wouldn't a DC character starring in a Vertigo title show a connection?

Originally posted by The Ion
Wouldn't a DC character starring in a Vertigo title show a connection?

Not if they didnt have the same history or did different things. While they may be the same concept they might not actually be the same character if you get what i mean lol.

Lucifer is a character from Gaiman's Sandman, which includes at various points the Martian Manhunter, Dr. Destiny, the demon Etirgan, Batman, and Mr. Miracle, and is therefore in DC continuity.

Edit: I just remembered that Lucifer appears briefly in Ennis' Demon series, which wasn't Vertigo.

Originally posted by Gregory
Lucifer is a character from Gaiman's Sandman, which includes at various points the Martian Manhunter, Dr. Destiny, the demon Etirgan, Batman, and Mr. Miracle, and is therefore in DC continuity.

Edit: I just remembered that Lucifer appears briefly in Ennis' Demon series, which wasn't Vertigo.

I know that we all know that, the point is the title Lucifer hasnt featured any DC hero in whatsoever, makes no reference to there having been a multiverse, the departure of Yahweh has had cataclysmic effects across the Presences creation (which would be the main DC universe if if was in continuity) and yet none of this has been referred to in any DC comic ive read. Similarly Infinite Crisis hasnt been mentioned or had any discernible effect on the main creation (which would be the main DC universe) in the Lucifer title. With all that in mind the Lucifer series is not in continuity. It may have the Lucifer character but that character is being used in a seperate non canon title.

Originally posted by Juntai
Probably.
Has he ever done it?

She had his powers and all and his astral form was immune. It was even explained that he was immune because he was a ghost, a shell.

Dr.Strange goes into astral form and owns Spectre 10/10.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I know that we all know that, the point is the title Lucifer hasnt featured any DC hero in whatsoever, makes no reference to there having been a multiverse, the departure of Yahweh has had cataclysmic effects across the Presences creation (which would be the main DC universe if if was in continuity) and yet none of this has been referred to in any DC comic ive read. Similarly Infinite Crisis hasnt been mentioned or had any discernible effect on the main creation (which would be the main DC universe) in the Lucifer title. With all that in mind the Lucifer series is not in continuity. It may have the Lucifer character but that character is being used in a seperate non canon title.

Agreed ....

Your previous reasoning is flawed though .... Sandman (For Gaimans run) has appeared as recently as the last JSA title.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Agreed ....

Your previous reasoning is flawed though .... Sandman (For Gaimans run) has appeared as recently as the last JSA title.

True. I shouldnt have generalised it and said Vertigo as opposed to Lucifer which is what i meant as you could tell from my last post.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
True. I shouldnt have generalised it and said Vertigo as opposed to Lucifer which is what i meant as you could tell from my last post.

Indeed ...

D.C. would have there work cut out following the continuity of ALL there separate chains !

And surely without God, there is no Vengeance of God, who is a vital part of the story !

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Indeed ...

D.C. would have there work cut out following the continuity of ALL there separate chains !

And surely without God, there is no Vengeance of God, who is a vital part of the story !

Precisely!! Theres hope for you yet

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I know that we all know that, the point is the title Lucifer hasnt featured any DC hero in whatsoever, makes no reference to there having been a multiverse, the departure of Yahweh has had cataclysmic effects across the Presences creation (which would be the main DC universe if if was in continuity) and yet none of this has been referred to in any DC comic ive read. Similarly Infinite Crisis hasnt been mentioned or had any discernible effect on the main creation (which would be the main DC universe) in the Lucifer title. With all that in mind the Lucifer series is not in continuity. It may have the Lucifer character but that character is being used in a seperate non canon title.

I really don't think so. I think that's just Mike Carey going, "holy shit, this Infinite Crisis stuff is stupid" and ignoring it--which is probably his best possible response. That type of stuff happens; do you also maintain that Sandman isn't in continuity, since none of the "sleeping sickness" stuff that happened when Morpheus was locked up was references in other DCU titles? (if so, you at least get points for consitancy, I guess).

Originally posted by Gregory
I really don't think so. I think that's just Mike Carey going, "holy shit, this Infinite Crisis stuff is stupid" and ignoring it--which is probably his best possible response. That type of stuff happens; do you also maintain that Sandman isn't in continuity, since none of the "sleeping sickness" stuff that happened when Morpheus was locked up was references in other DCU titles? (if so, you at least get points for consitancy, I guess).

I never said that Sandman wasnt continuity. If you read the entire thread particularly my interaction with Yahman you'll see i have only been referring to the Lucifer title. I was wrong to generalise but as you can see from my posts ive only been referring to Lucifer.

As for your point about the sleeping sickness thing its hardly on the same level as Infinite Crisis or the supreme being abandoning creation such events would certainly be mentioned across board if they were in the same continuity. The sleeping sickness not being mentioned in other DC titles stands to reason just as much as the X-mens problems (even if theyre global) rarely crossover into Avengers or F4. Its something that the team can handle and it doesnt necessitate a crossover. The likes of IC and the Yahweh situation are a whole different ball game.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Precisely!! Theres hope for you yet

No, i always agree with common sense !!!!!!!!!!!!!

There you go again GS acting like this! I never once said any of this was truth, just merely debating the topic as you yourself have done! I wouldn't think the Multiverse would be talked about in Lucifer, its a Lucifer comic, with other matters that he would seem more important to not even care about the Crisis... And Lucifer comic has already been written and actually done for years way before Infinite Crisis was thought of, its not like they just came up with all of these ideas in 6 months or so. And there is NO Multiverse in Elaines Creation at all, its just 1 Universe, 1 Earth (Yahwehs), all they did was open the 2 gateways big enough so both of Lucifers creation and The Presence Creation could fall into hers, and expanding her creation as well.

Another point is if Lucifer isn't in DC/Vertigo Continuity then why was Duma and Remiel ruling Hell in Lucifer when in Sandman they are shown to be ruling it after Lucifer left??? That in itself points to Lucifer being in DC/Vergito Continuity.. Try to remember we are only debating and i'm not claiming anything.. Hate when ppl act like they have something to prove. not good GS.

Originally posted by kevdude
There you go again GS acting like this! I never once said any of this was truth, just merely debating the topic as you yourself have done! I wouldn't think the Multiverse would be talked about in Lucifer, its a Lucifer comic, with other matters that he would seem more important to not even care about the Crisis... And Lucifer comic has already been written and actually done for years way before Infinite Crisis was thought of, its not like they just came up with all of these ideas in 6 months or so. And there is NO Multiverse in Elaines Creation at all, its just 1 Universe, 1 Earth (Yahwehs), all they did was open the 2 gateways big enough so both of Lucifers creation and The Presence Creation could fall into hers, and expanding her creation as well.

Another point is if Lucifer isn't in DC/Vertigo Continuity then why was Duma and Remiel ruling Hell in Lucifer when in Sandman they are shown to be ruling it after Lucifer left??? That in itself points to Lucifer being in DC/Vergito Continuity.. Try to remember we are only debating and i'm not claiming anything.. Hate when ppl act like they have something to prove. not good GS.

Sharing past events with Sandman, events which were detailed many many years ago is not conclusive proof especially when you consider nothing else from that point onwards is shared as far as has been revealed plus all of the aforementioned reasons that have been discussed in this thread.

The purpose of these forums is to debate about all matters regarding comics. Anything anyone posts is up for debate. Thats the very nature of a forum. If you feel you cant handle someone disagreeing with your point of view then i hate to tell ya mate but a forum really isnt the place for you.

You posted something, i disagreed with it and posted an opposing view. There was no malice to it. Thats what happens on forums. Deal with it. Or dont post. Noone else is crying because i disagreed with their view.

How very disappointing.

wow that took some major ego to put all that together gs lol. dont tell me what forums are for when you yourself don't even begin to understand what I wrote in these posts.... Its fine to debate in forums, thats what ther FOR!!!!!! But you wasn't at all debating anything, you was trying to correct me when >you< thought I said it was all true. What i said, was merely saying how DC/Vertigo MIGHT have it set up, understand GS??? I didn't think I actually had to spell it out for you. Don't try to correct me when u can't understand whats been posted!

Disappointed in you GS thought u was more open to ideas even if it might or might not still be true, we can hopefully still talk about it without having you say "well its never been shown for a few Years so we don't know if it could still be that way". so by your logic since we haven't seen oh say "Kismet" (whos been killed by Imperiex Prime in 2001) for a few years we have no idea if its in current DC/Vergito Continuity, see GS it works both ways

Iit does !!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All speculation and still no conclusive evidence for you to treat it as the truth in debate.

Have you though that Lucifer could have been referring to hell?

Theres no evidence whatsoever to claim that the Lucifer title is part of the Dc continuity. Not once has a multiverse been mentioned in the title (Obviously theres one now with Lucifer and Elaines own recently made creations), Crisis on Infinite Earths hasnt been referred to once and nor has the more recent Infinite Crisis which could hardly be ignored. None of the DC heroes have been featured in the title and Gods absence and the subsequent affects of that as shown in Lucifer hasnt been referred to at all in any DC title. It all points to them being seperate in terms of continuity just like Marvel and Maxx. Until its conclusively stated to be the case you cant claim it so. Archangel michael has been seen in the mainstream DCU on many occasions, and was also a main charachter in 'lucifer'.
Preacher is NOT in continuity with mainstream DCU, but most of the other vertigo titles are linked to the DCU

Originally posted by Gregory
Lucifer is a character from Gaiman's Sandman, which includes at various points the Martian Manhunter, Dr. Destiny, the demon Etirgan, Batman, and Mr. Miracle, and is therefore in DC continuity.

Edit: I just remembered that Lucifer appears briefly in Ennis' Demon series, which wasn't Vertigo. dont forget superman, he was at dream's funeral

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I know that we all know that, the point is the title Lucifer hasnt featured any DC hero in whatsoever, makes no reference to there having been a multiverse, the departure of Yahweh has had cataclysmic effects across the Presences creation (which would be the main DC universe if if was in continuity) and yet none of this has been referred to in any DC comic ive read. Similarly Infinite Crisis hasnt been mentioned or had any discernible effect on the main creation (which would be the main DC universe) in the Lucifer title. With all that in mind the Lucifer series is not in continuity. It may have the Lucifer character but that character is being used in a seperate non canon title. lucifer' has featured: archangel michael, the source, the prescence, all of which have been seen in the DCU.
Also, lucifer has referred to the multiverse at one time or another. But most of the time, the writers avoided the issue by referring to yahweh's 'creation' , which is meant to encompass all of :
the multiverse,
universe,
heaven,
hell,
purgetory,
the dreaming,
death's realm,
fourth world,
godworld (1st world),
mansions of silence,
rock of eternity,
dr fates tower,
all pocket dimentions,
vanishing point,
asgard,
olympus,
the source wall,
elseworlds,
hypertime,
(in all 10 dimentions and both positive matter and anti-matter universes for precrisis, postcrisis and pre-krona realities).

Lucifer's creation and elaine's creation are meant to be diffferent to all of that. But most of vertigo is still in continuity with DC; it's just written for more mature audiences.

And yes, the reason why the COIE hasnt been mentionned in lucifer is that lucifer is concerned with things much more important than that, and couldnt care less about the COIE. It doesnt necesseraly mean that he is not in continuity with the DCU just because he doesnt mention the COIE. He doesnt mention superman either, but that isnt proof that he does not exist the same continuity as superman

Originally posted by kevdude
wow that took some major ego to put all that together gs lol. dont tell me what forums are for when you yourself don't even begin to understand what I wrote in these posts.... Its fine to debate in forums, thats what ther FOR!!!!!! But you wasn't at all debating anything, you was trying to correct me when >you< thought I said it was all true. What i said, was merely saying how DC/Vertigo MIGHT have it set up, understand GS??? I didn't think I actually had to spell it out for you. Don't try to correct me when u can't understand whats been posted!

This is really juvenile. You presented an idea you didnt have to claim it was true, but the moment you presented it, you have to accept that its up for debate. Its in the public domain. I read what you had to say, didnt agree with it so i posted my view which to your horror didnt embrace your half baked theory.

For someone so clued up on how a forum works i find it most confusing to see you stressing over standard forum practice. Do you really expect people to not comment on things they read on a forum. If you cherish your ideas to the extent where anything but praise and embracement for them is gonna leave you booing then as aforementioned keep them to yourself.

Everyone else here is debating. In fact the new poster Gregory brought up some good points and we were going back and forth. Youre the one who came in, ignored all of that saw that i disagreed with your post and felt perturbed enough to comment on it. I never said you were at that moment saying it was 100% true but you didnt have to be saying that. It was an idea that I and evidently others dont agree with, so i posted a conflicting argument and as aforementioned sparked off a debate on the issue. Isnt debating what forums are about?

Originally posted by kevdude
Disappointed in you GS thought u was more open to ideas even if it might or might not still be true, we can hopefully still talk about it without having you say "well its never been shown for a few Years so we don't know if it could still be that way". so by your logic since we haven't seen oh say "Kismet" (whos been killed by Imperiex Prime in 2001) for a few years we have no idea if its in current DC/Vergito Continuity, see GS it works both ways

We have been talking about the ideas. By disagreeing with the idea you put forward, ive brought about a debate on it. People who agree have posted their ideas on why they thinks its true and people with opposing views have posted theirs or simply agreed me. Youre the only one who has taken it personally.

As for your point about Kismet, im not referring to DC here im talking about the Lucifer title. Kismet hasnt been mentioned in the title at all so yes, who is to say she exists in the cosmos they have in the Lucifer title? Plus theres the fact that she was featured in the canon Avengers/JLA crossover anyway so bit of a moot point.

All im saying is that by appearances (all the points brought up so far) it seems more likely that Lucifer isnt within DC continuity. If you can bring to the table evidence which conclusively shows otherwise then thats cool. No probs.

You just need to understand that anything you post be it an idea or a comment is placed in the public arena and is freely available to be commented on or scrutinised by any and everyone. Would you really expect people having read your ideas to keep quiet for fear of upsetting you? If thats the case then id hate to go on a forum where youre the moderator.

Originally posted by eleveninches
lucifer' has featured: archangel michael, the source, the prescence, all of which have been seen in the DCU.
Also, lucifer has referred to the multiverse at one time or another. But most of the time, the writers avoided the issue by referring to yahweh's 'creation' , which is meant to encompass all of :
the multiverse,
universe,
heaven,
hell,
purgetory,
the dreaming,
death's realm,
fourth world,
godworld (1st world),
mansions of silence,
rock of eternity,
dr fates tower,
all pocket dimentions,
vanishing point,
asgard,
olympus,
the source wall,
elseworlds,
hypertime,
(in all 10 dimentions and both positive matter and anti-matter universes for precrisis, postcrisis and pre-krona realities).


Including all of those things doesnt equate to a multiverse. Multiverses are multiple universes, alot of those things you've mentioned are other dimensions which is different. They would all be within a single universe.

Also the writer hasnt avoided the issue by just referring to Yahwehs creation, because Yahwehs creation has more often than not also been refered to as Yahwehs universe. In Lucifer all three of them have(or at least had) a universe not a multiverse.(Now of course with Lucifer and Yahwehs universe added to her own Elaine now has a multiverse)

Originally posted by eleveninches
And yes, the reason why the COIE hasnt been mentionned in lucifer is that lucifer is concerned with things much more important than that, and couldnt care less about the COIE. It doesnt necesseraly mean that he is not in continuity with the DCU just because he doesnt mention the COIE. He doesnt mention superman either, but that isnt proof that he does not exist the same continuity as superman

Well isnt all of the above just speculation? Could the reason major events in both series havent been mentioned be because theyre not in the same continuity? See it goes both ways.

Im not opposed to the idea, dont get me wrong. Id just need to see alot more evidence prior to accepting that its the case.

He said "Creation" consists of all those, GS, not a multiverse. Check it again.


And uhh, Lucifer is "Straight out of the pages of Sandman." which seems DC continuity, given that Sandman had met or seen so many of DC's characters. Other than that, although I haven't gotten through all my issues yet, I've really not seen anything else linking it.

Originally posted by Juntai
He said "Creation" consists of all those, GS, not a multiverse. Check it again.



""lucifer has referred to the multiverse at one time or another. But most of the time, the writers avoided the issue by referring to yahweh's 'creation' , which is meant to encompass all of :
the multiverse, ""

So basically hes saying both that the writer says "Yahwehs creation" as opposed to saying multiverse and hes saying that Yahwehs creation when stated on panel is referring to the multiverse and all of those other dimensions. Hmmm.

My point is that its made clear in Lucifer that Yahwehs creation is actually a universe. So what hes saying isnt correct. A multiverse is never referred to in Lucifer, its actually stated that Yahwehs own creation is a universe. So his previous post was incorrect. Even in the mainstream DC universe Yahweh never created a multiverse, that was down to Krona as detailed in Crisis on I E. Yahwehs creation has always been a universe. Lucifer has never referred to a multiverse in his title.

On the other hand, Elaines creation is now a multiverse because it encompasses her original cosmos along with Yahwehs and Lucifers.


Originally posted by Juntai
And uhh, Lucifer is "Straight out of the pages of Sandman." which seems DC continuity, given that Sandman had met or seen so many of DC's characters. Other than that, although I haven't gotten through all my issues yet, I've really not seen anything else linking it.

Just for curisoitys sake. How are people deciding Sandman is mainstream continuity? Is it just because the characters from it appear in DC? If thats the case then thats not conclusive. Do they actually make reference to events which happened in Sandman whilst in DC? If thats not the case then theres insufficient evidence.

I actually want to find out whether Vertigo is continuity or not so people dont get frustrated because im not agreeing with you or because im trying to pick holes in your arguments. Its just in an effort to find out the truth.

Unless characters from Vertigo who appear in DC actually make reference to events which happened in Vertigo in DC then its not conclusively canon. The DC versions could be based on the characters from Vertigo for example.

It seems quite obvious Sandman is at least, as pointed out,

"Sandman (For Gaimans run) has appeared as recently as the last JSA title."

And:
"Gaiman's Sandman, which includes at various points the Martian Manhunter, Dr. Destiny, the demon Etirgan, Batman, and Mr. Miracle"

just a page back


And Lucifer is a spinoff of Sandman's comic.




Although I dunno..

-shrugs-

I'd kinda like to know for sure as well.

Likewise it would seem Books of Magic vertigo book may also be in continuity, given that it was strongly influenced by DC's magic wielders.

Sandman is in continuity. Anyone remember the issue where Dream met Martian Manhunter?

I liked it.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Sandman is in continuity. Anyone remember the issue where Dream met Martian Manhunter?

I liked it.

Ahhhh thanks for the reminder!! But then does that then translate into Lucifer being continuity. Is Lucifer based on the character who appeared in Sandman or is it actually the same one? Hmmmm

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ahhhh thanks for the reminder!! But then does that then translate into Lucifer being continuity. Is Lucifer based on the character who appeared in Sandman or is it actually the same one? Hmmmm It's the same one. Look at the cover of Lucifer 1.

"From the pages of Sandman...
LUCIFER"

See. We might actually be getting somewhere now. This is how it should be. Why get defensive and take it personally when someone disagrees with your viewpoints? If everyone agreed and said nothing for fear of upsetting anyone then we'd never find anything out. Plus this forum would be boring as hell anyway.

If id just said nope thats not right and left it at that then you might have had a point, but i disagreed and gave legitimate reasons why, thereby sparking off a debate on the issue. You cant take offence to a person doing that. Its what happens on forums, its an integral part of them.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Sandman is in continuity. Anyone remember the issue where Dream met Martian Manhunter?

I liked it. Yep, its been pointed out multiple times, as well as them having a multitude of other DC characters.. in fact, 2 posts above yours is me quoting someone about these from a page back.

Vertigo book; Sandman has shown Martian Manhunter, Dr. Destiny, The Demon Etirgan, Batman, Mr Miracle...
Vertigo book; Books of Magic had Timothy Hunter being shown the DC universe through and through by Phantom Stranger, Constantine, Mr E, and Dr Occult.

Nah thats cool. I dont see any reason at this point in time to doubt that its part of continuity then. Theres one thing thats puzzling me. How is Spectre still operational if Yahweh is gone or do you think these events are happening at different points in time. i.e IC is before the recent events in Lucifer. Theres noo way Yahweh handing everything over to Elaine isnt going to affect Spectre.

that is 1 of the many points i've thought about as well, in Vergito Hellblazer at the same time everyone left hell we see The First of the Fallen in hell with a bunch of demons and everyone talking to him, this points to Lucifer not being in DC/Vertigo Continuity. Lucifer as a whole book has been done and written for many many years way before IC. If a Vertigo based comic such as Hellblazer isn't following Lucifer's story then that brings in doubt it is really in DC/Vertigo Continuity. Lucifer could still be a stand alone like Preacher or be in a class all in its own something like Preacher but still in DC/Vergito Continuity...

Originally posted by kevdude
Ther Hate when ppl act like they have something to prove. not good GS.

Don't you just hate when people criticise, over their own insecurities ?

I'm pretty sure that the First of the Fallen isn't supposed to be Lucifer; he was in Hell before Lucifer fell, hense the "First."

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ahhhh thanks for the reminder!! But then does that then translate into Lucifer being continuity. Is Lucifer based on the character who appeared in Sandman or is it actually the same one? Hmmmm

You know he is !!!!!!!!!!! ?

G.S. you're going about this all the wrong way ....

I agree with you, but not because Vertigo's present Lucifer is a parody of Gaiman's, but because the too have nothing to do with each other in continuity !!!!!!!!!!

How do we know that the DCU and the vertigo universe are written during the same time scale ? For all we know the events in Lucifer's universe are happening 5 billion years into the future of the D.C. universe ....

The point is there is no continuity between the two, and therefore the events happening in vertigo have no baring on the DCU and vice versa !!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
You know he is !!!!!!!!!!! ?

G.S. you're going about this all the wrong way ....

I agree with you, but not because Vertigo's present Lucifer is a parody of Gaiman's, but because the too have nothing to do with each other in continuity !!!!!!!!!!

How do we know that the DCU and the vertigo universe are written during the same time scale ? For all we know the events in Lucifer's universe are happening 5 billion years into the future of the D.C. universe ....

The point is there is no continuity between the two, and therefore the events happening in vertigo have no baring on the DCU and vice versa !!!!!!!!!!!!

I appologise for not reading the last page .... my bad !!!!!!!!

gregory i know "The First" isn't Lucifer, thats not what I'm talking about. anyway something else very interesting that nobody else has noticed in Lucifer yet, in Lucifer Exodus (issues 42-49 somewhere) it shows him talking about the war in heaven thats going to take place, we all know that war happened as we see here lately. the point is what he named it, he named it Ragnarok which many people believe the Old Gods before New Genesis and Apokolips was from. hmmmm if anyone reads up on it you would prob be suprised by how much the Lucifer comic book has taken from the real world Norse religion.

When I posted al those other dimentions before, I meant that yahwehs creation was composed of all of those listed INCLUDING the precrisis multiverse and the postcrisis universe.

Originally posted by Juntai
Vertigo book; Sandman has shown Martian Manhunter, Dr. Destiny, The Demon Etirgan, Batman, Mr Miracle...
Vertigo book; Books of Magic had Timothy Hunter being shown the DC universe through and through by Phantom Stranger, Constantine, Mr E, and Dr Occult. Dont forget superman featured in the sandman as well (and im not sure about batman, but i think he was there). Also, zatanna featured heavily in one of the books of magic, as well as dr occult, phanton stranger, constantine and others who are all part of mainstream DC.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nah thats cool. I dont see any reason at this point in time to doubt that its part of continuity then. Theres one thing thats puzzling me. How is Spectre still operational if Yahweh is gone or do you think these events are happening at different points in time. i.e IC is before the recent events in Lucifer. Theres noo way Yahweh handing everything over to Elaine isnt going to affect Spectre.
I wouldn't mind seing elaine taking yahweh's place, but she messed up her own creation, and i think it would be a bit naive to think she could do a better job in the DCU.
About spectre's power, I have thought about that as well, and i came up with 4 theories:
1. Spectre is being powered by the prescence or the source who is 'filling in' for yahweh.
2. Spectre is being powered by elaine or lucifer or some other godlike being.
3. Spectre still has the power of the green glow energy from when he was merged with hal jordan (the parallax/hal/spectre trio had its power before they were split, and neither hal nor parallax had such innate power afterwards)
4. Spectre is being retconned again to revert back to his demonic origin, and has his own power once again in his original form (where he was origininally either a demon or an angel or something like that, and was turned into the spectre for not taking to battle during the first war in heaven).
Originally posted by Gregory
I'm pretty sure that the First of the Fallen isn't supposed to be Lucifer; he was in Hell before Lucifer fell, hense the "First." The first of the fallen isnt lucifer. he is more like the opposite of the prescence (the dark evil aspect of the prescence)

Originally posted by Juntai
Vertigo book; Sandman has shown Martian Manhunter, Dr. Destiny, The Demon Etirgan, Batman, Mr Miracle...
Vertigo book; Books of Magic had Timothy Hunter being shown the DC universe through and through by Phantom Stranger, Constantine, Mr E, and Dr Occult.

The Sandman (The same one BTW) showed up in the last edition of J.S.A Morpheus/Dream took Hector Hall's soul into the dream realm !

Do you think her mixing creations has anything to do with the theorized end of Wildstorm U, and possible addition of some of its better characters into mainstream DCU?

the wildstorm universe will (IMO) just be retconned to be a part of the new post-IC multiverse (yahweh's creation).

I don't think so or at least I hope not. That'd be pretty lame.