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I have already made something like this but I'll give it another go. Can the ROTS Republic, ROTJ Rebels, the CIS, and Revan's Sith Empire defeat the Galactic Empire? Personally I think the Empire would be overwhelmed by this alliance.

Nope.

Empire has the Death Star....if they fix that little tiny issue with it, it's causing some havoc...not to mention the Sun Crusher and the like

Well, the CIS can be targeted by their homeworlds and plant locations and shut down, while the Rebels can be defeated in one decisive battle. Revan's Sith Empire can't compare, and while the Republic will have comparable tech, the Imperials will pwn them. Empire wins.

Couldn't they just mass produce Republic tech with the Star Forge?

Can they?

I don't see why they can't.

couldn't the imps blow the damn thing up?

Death Star blows up Star Forge

Yes, but they could always play keep away with the Empire and tactical geniuses like Revan and Ackbar could think of a way to keep it from being destroyed.

I....really doubt the SF can move that fast....and one good shot and that's it. Hell, an SSD could be enough

You never actually see the Star Forge...move

I know.

Originally posted by The Creator
Yes, but they could always play keep away with the Empire and tactical geniuses like Revan and Ackbar could think of a way to keep it from being destroyed.

firstly, thrawn > all

secondly, DS punches through cap ships...it just blows a hole straight through the fleet

all it'll take is some interdictors to keep the SF from running off, plus enough support ships to keep revan and his cronies away so the DS can take a shot at the SF...gg no rm

Nothing in Revan's fleet can destroy the first Death Star. The first DS's defense was against large scale capital ships and the shaft needs a proton torpedo to cause a chain reaction which I seen no such thing on anything from Revan's fleet.

Originally posted by Spearhead
firstly, thrawn > all

secondly, DS punches through cap ships...it just blows a hole straight through the fleet

all it'll take is some interdictors to keep the SF from running off, plus enough support ships to keep revan and his cronies away so the DS can take a shot at the SF...gg no rm

Yay for Thrawn bias!

Y'know who I've always loved in the Empire? That guy on Endor who, when Han poses as an AT-ST driver and tells him the Rebels are routed, the officer gets a big, happy grin on his face like he's finally done something important and eagerly says "Send two squads to help!"
He'll always be the man...

Yeah, he was like 20 something years old and in charge of the base. The guy he gave orders to was like twice his age. FTW?

He deserved some respect, damn it! That proud grin should make the rebels ashamed

I'm sure he wasn't wearing it when he got accosted.

Course he wasn't, damn Rebels

Rebels suck.

Almost as bad as bounty hunters....didn't need that scum

I still think tarkin needs his own SW book, dammit.

He does. Tarkin was and remains one of the best SW villains...maybe he could meet Dooku in it sometimes...or maybe Tarkin was busy killing Dracula, who knows?

Tarkin versus Dracula? Battle of the Barbarous Acts Towards Civilians?

Dracula:My noble foes, may the flames of hell keep you warm! *Toasts the impaled army....we cut to the death Star.

Van Tarkin: You may fire when ready...

lol

Dracula takes over for Vader on the DS:

Motti: "Don't try to scare us with your bloody ways Drathcula. Your sad devotion to that lustful religion hasn't helped you conjure up the Stolen Arteries, or discover the location of the Hidden Ventricle Aort---"

Drathcula: "I find you quivering neck muscles delicious."

lmao

Originally posted by Ianus
Yay for Thrawn bias!

oh, I'm not saying he's infallible. I'm just saying he's the most competent.

Bear in mind the extreme pro-Rebel/New Republic bias that occurs in the novels, the imperials are often led by buffoons, idiots, and people who spend too much time thinking...it's only fair to point out that someone like you or I could probably do a better job of commanding forces...so there is going to be Thrawn bias, whether you like it or not.

Thrawn = Ackbar

One thing though everybody here might want to consider, the Empire does have the superior fire power, they have more ships they have more planets then perhaps even all of them combined and they can probably produce ships faster.

But they don't have the force users, and that just simply sucks for them. They also won't immediately know where the Star Forge is and it might take them an entire war to find out, it did for the Republic. And if the Star Forge can start creating Republic ships, which is very likely actually (if you want an explanation just ask i'm to lazy to type it right now) then the Empire might get into some serious trouble.

With Revan and Ackbar and GG and god knows who else their opposition has some great generals. Thrawn would not be able to beat all of them, if even one of them in an fair battle. The Empire would be taken over at first, I'm sure of it. Force users and equal technology tend to make you win. It won't be until the Imperial fleets find them that the fight will be serious and the alliance of others (AoO) could have very well build a lot of ships by then.

In one battle the Empire wins without a doubt, in a full out war... Well the AoO has a chance

If the Star Forge is ever found, then its most probably game up for the IE, CIS and Republic and most of the rebels.

However even if it is found, there is still the possibility that Imperial ships would be destroyed before they can transmit there coordinates to the fleet, unless its a SD, where its debatable whether it'll hold up for the time required to send a transmission.

If most of the other alliance parties are wiped out, then the rebels will most likely take to the ground and slowly gain more political support in the senate and destabalise the empire. Although the OT was a very perculiar set of consequences for that to happen.

No Force Users? The Inquisitors, Dark Side Elite, Hands...
And Zhan is a complete Thrawn fanboy....

I agree that the Empire would be quite...put out, by them not knowing the SF's location.

But as it has been agreed, the Empire could easily take out all of the others. And I will bring up again, a point I've made before:

Since the Empire would conquer what territory the others have, that means all their worlds would be under Imperial control. And even if the SF remained hidden, where are they gonna find the manpower to pilot their vessels?

This would be like an unintentional blockade of the SF, despite the Imperials' ignorance to its whereabouts. To take on the Imps, the "Alliance," will need ALOT of ships, and that means ALOT of people to man them. And since the only place to find sufficient manpower would be in the galaxy the Imperials have conquered....well, the "Alliance" is gonna be strugglin' for a while.

Why does the Empire have the galaxy and not the others? They owned pretty much all of that space at a time once too...

Not if the Empire defeated their fleet. When you defeat someone's fleet, you tend to conquer their territory.

True. But if their fleet is already defeated when this fight starts then there really isn't any fight.

Emprie's military might and superweapons tip the scales quite a bit...and strong dark force users would be able to find the Star Forge...hell, Palp had a Miraluka working for him...not to mention Arden Lyn

The "others'" fleet? Then they still have their beloved SF to fall back upon. But I already covered that...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Emprie's military might and superweapons tip the scales quite a bit...and strong dark force users would be able to find the Star Forge...hell, Palp had a Miraluka working for him...not to mention Arden Lyn

And i'm sure that the Jedi Council in the Kotor Era that knew Miraklu and were probably in good terms with them wouldn't have thought of that...

Obviously that doesn't work.

Originally posted by Fishy
Why does the Empire have the galaxy and not the others? They owned pretty much all of that space at a time once too...

Wedge actually stated in one of the books that all the planets that would go one way or the other by diplomacy had done so. The Empire got so many planets by taking the Outer Rim and places like that. Also note that the Empire had the Deep Core, which was unexplored by previous governments. The Deep Core had a huge number of planets because it was so dense planet-wise. Added to that is the Unknown Regions which Thrawn conquered a lot of.

Force users really don't matter much. We've seen how badly they can be pwned by regular troopers.

pwnshnizzled you mean.

ROTS really isn't an indication they were shot in the back. During the Mandelorian wars they made a huge difference.. And glentract Revan was in the unknown regions as well... Who knows what he coqnuered there..

Originally posted by The Creator
Yes, but they could always play keep away with the Empire and tactical geniuses like Revan and Ackbar could think of a way to keep it from being destroyed.
Tarkin was a tactical genius as well.

YEah, give Thrawn a finger painting Revan made when he was five and Thrawn'll own him

Originally posted by Fishy
And glentract Revan was in the unknown regions as well... Who knows what he coqnuered there..

That's right? Who does know? Note the the Unknown Regions were bigger back then. Places like Hapes was unknown(it didn't exist yet), as was much of the Hutt Empire and all of the Chiss Regions. Also note that Nihilus was in the Unkown Regions too. They must have been a lot bigger back then.

Hapes was well known. By then it certainly existed. The Hutt Empire is clearly doing fine, and the Chiss have never been conquered in their history.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Hapes was well known. By then it certainly existed. The Hutt Empire is clearly doing fine, and the Chiss have never been conquered in their history.

Nah, the Hapes weren't formed until a thousand years after KOTOR.

Untrue. After Arca and his men killed the Lorell Raider pirates, the freed women formed Hapes shortly thereafter

The New Essential Guide to Chronolgy indicates that it didn't officaly exist as a nation until circa 3600 B.B.Y.

Official nation or no, it was still around according to Ta'A chume

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
That's right? Who does know? Note the the Unknown Regions were bigger back then. Places like Hapes was unknown(it didn't exist yet), as was much of the Hutt Empire and all of the Chiss Regions. Also note that Nihilus was in the Unkown Regions too. They must have been a lot bigger back then.

I looked up that quote for you, Nihilus wasn't in the unknown regions he was at the border of the unknown regions and the outer rim, Visas does not say he was really in the unknown regions.

Originally posted by Fishy
I looked up that quote for you, Nihilus wasn't in the unknown regions he was at the border of the unknown regions and the outer rim, Visas does not say he was really in the unknown regions.

Oh, my bad.

Originally posted by Fishy
I looked up that quote for you, Nihilus wasn't in the unknown regions he was at the border of the unknown regions and the outer rim, Visas does not say he was really in the unknown regions.
I thought Kriea did?

I'm not sure, i'll have to look through my book with Kotor quotes again, but seeing as Visas said he didn't its pretty obvious to assume that Kreia didn't say it either..

Seriously. Revan's Sith empire could take this alone.

The Galactic empire would be overwhelmed.

Originally posted by Obi7
Seriously. Revan's Sith empire could take this alone.

The Galactic empire would be overwhelmed.

LOL.

Nebaris, right?

Just to humor myself, I'm going to state the obvious and inform you that there is no single entity (and likely no realistic conglomerate of entities) who can match the Galactic Empire on an even footing, militarily.

Well if the SF can use the rebals technology and create better ships, then I'd say that Revan would be smart enough to get the original Death Star plans and create his own death star.

Then he could get a few bothans to find plans to the sun crusher and create his own, granted it would take a while to build.

Only Noobaris would use a sock to bump a 2 year old thread.

On topic, The GE wins hands down. The Executor could take Revan's entire fleet by itelf, and the rest of the GE's 25,000 ISD's, thousands of smaller capital ships, millions of fighters, and handful of superweapons would make the rest easy pickin's.

The Empire could take this one, but it won't be easy.

Revan's ships are too much out of date and this has been bothering me a for a while. How can Revan have an "infinite" fleet. I mean sure he could have an infinite number of ships but that wont do no good if you don't have the manpower to operate them. Plus they would run out of fighter pilots faster than the empire. I would say the real greatest challenge would be the Vong still.

The Star Forge would also provide a potentially unlimited amount of droid pilots though, no?

Originally posted by MutantMessiah
The Star Forge would also provide a potentially unlimited amount of droid pilots though, no?

I don't think they were droid pilots. There is no mention of them being droids anywhere.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/sithfighter/

Little concern appears to have been given to the to the comfort of the Sith fighter pilot, and only the most essential subsystems were included A droid doesn't need comfort like humans and if they were droid pilots I think the databank would have said so instead of calling them fighter pilots.

It's really not too difficult of a battle. The Ultimate Visual Guide confirms that Palpatine's seizure of power preceded the largest and greatest build up of military hardware in galactic history; I would recommend reading some of Domus Publica's literature on the Imperial Navy's statistics (with documented material from the cited sourcebooks) or Glentract's debates on the issue. Furthermore, one should really take into account the superweapons that the Empire has at its disposal; the Death Stars I and II are enough to destroy a planet a piece, capable of hyperdrive. The Galaxy Gun just needs coordinates and it can shoot a planet-destroying-missile-of-doom at any given target. The Tarkin (see: Death Star). Eclipse I and II are both the most powerful naval vessels in galactic history, vastly outmassing and outgunning a Super Star Destroyer - able to obliterate planetary shields and sear continents. The World Devastaters themselves would be a match for the Star Forge; for every piece of raw material consumed, the station rearms itself. It's virtually indestructable (only the Master Control Signal would shut it down). And, lastly, the Emperor's own Force Storm can consume any of the opposition's fleet.

No one and nothing compares.

^^ Exactly. The Empire is simply far more militaristic than any of the forces it opposes. They devoted most of their resources to military spending, and their personnel were kept in a constant state of war to keep them prepared.

This fight is like Nazi Germany vs Switzerland, Austria, and France.

Not exactly considering switzerland was Neutral and France was useless..

The Republic liked to stay peaceful like Switzerland and Revan's 4,000 year old outdated fleet is France.

I don't understand why people are saying the Empire would definitely win. Militarily speaking, yes, they have the greatest army by far, but if the Rebels figured out a way to stop the Empire's reign, together it would be easier. It's not as if the Empire knows its opponents from head to toe, you know. They also have to find out about their weaknesses and strengths, what's effective and what's not against them, their weapons, advantages, disadvantages, etc... If the Rebels alone were able to think out a masterplan to blow up the Empire's greatest weapon, adding the others would widen the tactical and military intelligence to choose from.
The Empire is not anywere near invincible. It has weaknesses that can be exploited, as seen in the movies, and I find no reason why these combined fleets wouldn't do the same.

Edit: Which Sidious is in command of the Empire? OT Sids, ROTS Sidos, DE Sids?

Originally posted by Gideon
I expected better than this.

Doesn't surprise me. Someone as good as you should always expect better from others.


"Your diatribe is brimming with faulty logic and flawed conclusions. First, let me make it explicitly clear that the Alliance to Restore the Republic did not "stop the Empire's reign" directly. One can credit them with that victory only if we agree that it was indirect and idealogical in nature. The true death to the Empire was brought about by sheer warlordism following Emperor Palpatine's demise at the Battle of Endor (which the Rebellion was responsible for). The Grand Admirals, Grand Moffs, and other naval personnel began to divide the fleets and armies since the Emperor was no longer around to maintain his iron grip over all of the Imperial State's agencies and organizations. Furthermore, when reckless fools like Admiral Daala came along, the Empire's resources were further drained. In no way did the New Republic ever truly best a unified Empire; they relied on hit-and-run tactics. Palpatine's subsequent resurrection six years was enough to send the Republic spinning away to its own near-destruction. Palpatine reconquered the galaxy in roughly a year's time. The Yuuzhan Vong fiasco is further testament to the fact that the New Republic was woefully undermilitarized and equipped."

Fair enough, you've made your point. I won't argue.


"You make it sound as though each of these factions possess special weaknesses; some version of kryptonite. It's not so. Their weaknesses aren't exactly unnoticeable. They are smaller, weaker, and equipped with inferior technology."

I didn't quite mean superficial weaknesses, but I guess they're enough.



"The Rebellion was able to exploit a fatal flaw in the superstructure of the Death Star, true. But, once again, you can credit Moff Tarkin's practical (though, in retrospect, highly arrogant) decision to not unleash the full might of the Death Star's complement fighters and escorts on the surgical strike force. Tarkin is as just responsible for the Death Star's destruction as Luke is."

Yes, I guess you can count on that. But, do you think that if the 'combined fleets' discover the fatal flaw and blow up the Death Star, the Empire would still take on them? I do believe so, but it will make things a little bit less difficult.



"The Empire is, militarily speaking, the closest to invincible that Star Wars has. The other factions possess a plethora of weaknesses. I could just as easily point out that Palpatine would logically be aware of both Darth Revan's pitiful empire and the Republic's armies and be able to deal with them accordingly."

Yes, I exaggerated on the 'nowere near invincible', true. But still: they are not invincible. That's what I tried to point out.

Oh, you flatter me. You win.

Originally posted by Gideon
Oh, you flatter me. You win.

I'll need to give you compliments more often, then.

C'mon, Revan and the rest OwN these guys. Nobody can withstand the power of these 3 together, for buddha's sake

except the empire
the republic and the rebels have nothing major against the full might of the empire, and revan's fleet is pretty useless..

A breakdown of the Empire's pwning of these guys...

ROTS Republic: Death Star + Star Destroyers ravage the Republic fleet, and while the Senate and Jedi are whining about it the Galaxy Gun blows up their worlds.

ROTJ Rebels: Two ways in one battle they could die: Thrawn finds a tactical weakness and kills them all or Palps' Force Storm destroys them all (wonder why he didn't use that at Endor...)

CIS: Death Star/Galaxy Gun blow up droid-building worlds. Stormtroopers, Vader, Emperor's Hands destroy rest of droids. No contest.

Revan's Sith: The Star Forge cannot move and is located always above the Rakata system's sun. It cannot move from there and the Sith Navy stays with it and protects it. Note the fact that it is above a star. Now that you know that, I say two words: Sun Crusher.

Rest of the Imperial Fleet destroys the survivors, and we're done with a clear Empire victory!

To really make such a battle feasible, the only appropriate situation would be take the full military power of each faction and set the battle up in some remote empty piece of space. Logically, speaking, if we literally meant take the whole faction itself, we're gonna be dealing with like 3 Coruscants, and duplicate people.

Squaring off:

A technologically advanced Imperial Fleet of a generalized 25 000 ISDs, a Death Star, two Executors, and an uncountable host of support ships

vs.

Technologically inferior everyone in the form of an unknown sized, yet doubtless smaller host of Revan's Fleet; the numerically-challenged Rebel Fleet; the entirely droid and Neimodian-operated (and thus lacking in nerve, resolve or creativity) CIS Fleet; and the much, much smaller version of the Empire in the shape of the Republic.

In a scenario such as this, it comes down to numbers and technological advancement, something the Empire holds in abundance. They suffer moderate to possibly even heavy losses, yet still trump the rest of the players.

There's a reason Poland was defeated the way it was, kinda the same idea as this.

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
(wonder why he didn't use that at Endor...)
noone thought of it back then ..
plus it would have been hard - almost impossible to put that into the movie with the technology they had back then..