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Unfortunatly lots of people seem to think that a character with high speed balances against a character with high str. or even an excellent fighting skill.

2 heroes while fighting eachother CAN be at differant levels of strength, energy projection or intellect

however, speed, and to a larger extent, mobility, trump most other physical augmentation skills (i know things like flight, TP and webslinging arent physical augmentation, but, ya)

Hulk vs Spiderman

this is probably the best example of what i am talking about because it is so blatant

nobody will argue about the stats in this fight

its a character that has massive strength vs a character with massive mobility (his agility and speed here arent necessarily even the trump abilities)

why?

well, with such an inbalance in mobility, spiderman can fight hulk for a little while, then if he really wanted, he could leave, get a coffee, come back, decide he wants to read the paper, go do that, and for the most part, hulk sits there (ya, he leaps, but, nothing compared to Spidey's mobility)

basically, spiderman gets to say "I want to fight you now, here" or "I dont want to fight here" or "I dont want to fight now". Hulk is at the MERCY of spiderman, because he HAS to wait for spidey to come to him

dictating the flow and momentum of a fight is incalculably valuable. I would say this ability alone would give the character with (it needs to be a signifigant differance in mobility) the higher mobility the advantage 7/10 times.

you cant put a character who depends on walking from one place to the next against a flyer. While they may have similar skills or stats (the flyers stats could be way less even) the one has almost NO defense against the other, and ESPECIALLY no way of finishing the fight.

my 2 cents :P

gd info
about the longest thing ive ever read in one go....but v. interesting and 4tfull
seriously i take my hat off to u




well i wud if i had 1!

While very very important, agility or mobility will not play such an important part in a fight against someone that is his superior in the Strength and Durability department. Spiderman knocking Hulk out with a truck? Puh-lease. That smells of PIS so badly you need to cover your nose.

The logic is this: Someone with a durability and strength level like Colossus or Hulk or Thing should never lose to Spidey in a battle to the end. Why? Because while sure, it would be very hard for them to even touch him, let alone hit him, none of his hits or attacks should ever be effective on them either. So it's like this:

1. He's got awesome mobility and agility, but if he's concentrating fully on dodging ALL of the hits, then he'll only be defending himself, so no offense. Therefore, at one point both of them become tired, probably Spiderman first because he's exerting more energy jumping all over the place, and then one single hit from the opponent or maybe two would put him out.

2. If he's not concentrating fully on dodging ALL of the hits, then he'll also be leaving himself open. Let's say he gets 10 hits in on the opponent, and the opponent gets one. That's enough to either daze, or take him out. Even if he's just dazed, that makes it that much harder to concentrate, so 5 minutes later he'll get let's say 7 hits in and the other guy gets 2 or 3 hits on him. And the match is over.

You understand? Mobility and agility are both very important, but if there's a huge gap between the level of his strength/durability and his opponents', then it means he'll lose.

The agility won't balance out the huge gap. It'll try, but it won't. Not when the gap is that big. Against let's say Luke Cage, yeah, i agree, but even then, with the whole unbreakable skin thing.....well.....but anyway, you get my point.

Congrats on making a great thread though

wow u guys r my heros!?!

congrats DU

take my blessing

go on take it





hurry up and take it...



fine...
i'll mail it 2 u

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
While very very important, agility or mobility will not play such an important part in a fight against someone that is his superior in the Strength and Durability department. Spiderman knocking Hulk out with a truck? Puh-lease. That smells of PIS so badly you need to cover your nose.

The logic is this: Someone with a durability and strength level like Colossus or Hulk or Thing should never lose to Spidey in a battle to the end. Why? Because while sure, it would be very hard for them to even touch him, let alone hit him, none of his hits or attacks should ever be effective on them either. So it's like this:

1. He's got awesome mobility and agility, but if he's concentrating fully on dodging ALL of the hits, then he'll only be defending himself, so no offense. Therefore, at one point both of them become tired, probably Spiderman first because he's exerting more energy jumping all over the place, and then one single hit from the opponent or maybe two would put him out.

2. If he's not concentrating fully on dodging ALL of the hits, then he'll also be leaving himself open. Let's say he gets 10 hits in on the opponent, and the opponent gets one. That's enough to either daze, or take him out. Even if he's just dazed, that makes it that much harder to concentrate, so 5 minutes later he'll get let's say 7 hits in and the other guy gets 2 or 3 hits on him. And the match is over.

You understand? Mobility and agility are both very important, but if there's a huge gap between the level of his strength/durability and his opponents', then it means he'll lose.

The agility won't balance out the huge gap. It'll try, but it won't. Not when the gap is that big. Against let's say Luke Cage, yeah, i agree, but even then, with the whole unbreakable skin thing.....well.....but anyway, you get my point.

Congrats on making a great thread though


lol, compleatly, if i ever saw spider man "ko" the hulk, it would be PIS

it is an extreme eexample, and no, its not a debate about spidey vs hulk (good fight though :P)

im just trying to point out why say, superman, beats juggs/hulk in under a second (im sure without the mobility he does, but im really struggling to find a text book example of what im talking about better than SMvH

A good example would be Spiderman vs. Boar or whatever his stupid name is. The guy with the mohawk and that looks like a huge boar on two feet. He's much stronger than Spiderman, but the gap isn't really that huge. Spidey owns him all the time.

Another good example would be Batman vs. the weaker versions of Solomon Grundy, or vs. Bane.

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
A good example would be Spiderman vs. Boar or whatever his stupid name is. The guy with the mohawk and that looks like a huge boar on two feet. He's much stronger than Spiderman, but the gap isn't really that huge. Spidey owns him all the time.

Another good example would be Batman vs. the weaker versions of Solomon Grundy, or vs. Bane.

thx :P

No problem

Lost in all this is the fact that a thunderclap would own Spidey.

Just playing devil's advocate.....good points.

Damn good points here. I guess the convention that most people here use is that both contestants want to fight so no running away. But I think DU really hit it on the head: against a really durable character, speed is only a temporary advantage IMO

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Lost in all this is the fact that a thunderclap would own Spidey.


blah, i forgot he could do that :P

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Lost in all this is the fact that a thunderclap would own Spidey.

Just playing devil's advocate.....good points.



Hulk's also been shown to be fast enough to catch Spiderman while he was jumping around trying to dodge the hits. But that's beyond the point