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feel free to give ur opinion, i dont mind trash talking but dont over-do it... i like a good debate.

Are you kidding? Dwyane Wade is 1000 million times better then Vince.

Agreed. DW, easily.

SO... danzeke...remind me who won the player of the month of december again? oh yeah... thats right, it was vince.

Dwyane Wade 26.3 ppg.
Vince Carter 24.7 ppg.

Dwyane Wade 6.30 rpg.
Vince Carter 6.00 rpg.

Dwyane Wade 6.8 apg.
Vince Carter 4.0 apg.

Dwyane Wade is ranked 4th in points(869)
Vince Carter is ranked 14th in points(692)
Dwyane Wade also ranks 9th in assists(223) and 5th in field goals made(294) and also 6th is steals per game(1.91)

Vince Carter is ranked in the top 10 in only 2 statistics.
Dwyane Wade is ranked in the top 10 in 21 statistics, and 11 of them he is ranked #5 or better.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/vince_carter/index.html?nav=page

I win. Thread over.

danzeke i can tell u r clearly a big dwayne wade fan, but statistics r nothing if ur team doesnt win, the heat are not the team they were last year... the nets have beaten the heat in both games on their home court and vince has already won the player of the month. i want to tell u another thing though... d-wade has taken more shots than vince, vince has a better leaping ability, can shoot the 3 MUCH better than d-wade. and has a better shooting game. in terms of driving to the basket i know d-wade has been doing more than carter in terms of impossible shots and dunking on every1, and thats why he is more recognized. i can tell... bcz he has more votes than vince in the all star balloting which is shocking. it all counts the sam, whether its a dunk, a layup, or a shot inside the outside line. skill wise, they both can dribble, both can drive, both can shoot free throws, vince has a better jump shot, and ill give d-wade as slight as an advantage can b in passing, because he is a pg/sg... vince doesnt play that position which is why he doesnt handle the ball nearly as much as wade. i know u will come back at me by saying vince is soft, but that is what he was..not what he is. when he gets hurt in new jersey hes back the next quarter, or the next game. its not the way it was in toronto. skill wise, pretty much the same. respect wise, d-wade has the advantage...half of canada hates vince for what he did which is why he is not in the top 10 in all star balloting.

Originally posted by tanjot
danzeke i can tell u r clearly a big dwayne wade fan, but statistics r nothing if ur team doesnt win, the heat are not the team they were last year... the nets have beaten the heat in both games on their home court and vince has already won the player of the month. i want to tell u another thing though... d-wade has taken more shots than vince, vince has a better leaping ability, can shoot the 3 MUCH better than d-wade. and has a better shooting game. in terms of driving to the basket i know d-wade has been doing more than carter in terms of impossible shots and dunking on every1, and thats why he is more recognized. i can tell... bcz he has more votes than vince in the all star balloting which is shocking. it all counts the sam, whether its a dunk, a layup, or a shot inside the outside line. skill wise, they both can dribble, both can drive, both can shoot free throws, vince has a better jump shot, and ill give d-wade as slight as an advantage can b in passing, because he is a pg/sg... vince doesnt play that position which is why he doesnt handle the ball nearly as much as wade. i know u will come back at me by saying vince is soft, but that is what he was..not what he is. when he gets hurt in new jersey hes back the next quarter, or the next game. its not the way it was in toronto. skill wise, pretty much the same. respect wise, d-wade has the advantage...half of canada hates vince for what he did which is why he is not in the top 10 in all star balloting.

Wrong. The Heat beat the Nets the first game 90-89. The Heat have played Indiana twice, Dallas, Detriot, San Antonio, Cleveland, Phoenix, and the Clippers each once, and all of them a pretty good. The Nets have played Indiana once, Cleveland twice, Phoenix once, Detroit once, and the Clippers once. So you have had 6 games against really good teams, the Heat gave had 8. You have played 30 games, we have played 34, and we have 1 more win and 3 more losses. So you can't say the Heat aren't winning, plus, the Heat has had more injuries.

we are supposed to b talking about d-wade and vince, lets not repeat their team, so.... answer back about what i had to say about who is better between the two and what they bring to the table

Originally posted by tanjot
we are supposed to b talking about d-wade and vince, lets not repeat their team, so.... answer back about what i had to say about who is better between the two and what they bring to the table

Well you were the one that said statistics dont matter unless you win.

Anyway, sure Vince is better then Wade at 3's, but Wade doesn't shoot 3's. And that says something because Wade still scores more ppg without shooting 3's then Vince does while doing pretty good at 3's. Wade. Wade also gets to the foul line more, and is very good when he is on the foul line. Wade is a better passer and way better at defense. And Wade also plays his best when his team needs it, especially when they are in the 4th quarter in a close game.

wade doesnt shoot a lot of 3s, andh hes shooting what.. 28% at most. vince and wade r both clutch players, do i have to remind u vince made the game tying 3 at the buzzer against miami in game 4 of their series. i know they got sweeped and my bad, i forgot new jersey had lost that game because vince did not get the foul call he deserved but hes getting PLENTY of them now. vince averages atleast 10 free throws a game... and just like i said vince is a much better jumpshooter than dwaynewade which is why he doesnt drive every posession like wade, does most of the time. thats why he doesnt shoot as many free throws. vince is the most athletic person in the league. dwayne wade said it himself and thats no joke. he was interviewed by someone on a show called nba xl, which im not sure they show in the states. o wait....ur from new jersey? lol. ok never mind i wont add to this comment.

Peter Crouch IS BETTER!!!

Originally posted by tanjot
wade doesnt shoot a lot of 3s, andh hes shooting what.. 28% at most. vince and wade r both clutch players, do i have to remind u vince made the game tying 3 at the buzzer against miami in game 4 of their series. i know they got sweeped and my bad, i forgot new jersey had lost that game because vince did not get the foul call he deserved but hes getting PLENTY of them now. vince averages atleast 10 free throws a game... and just like i said vince is a much better jumpshooter than dwaynewade which is why he doesnt drive every posession like wade, does most of the time. thats why he doesnt shoot as many free throws. vince is the most athletic person in the league. dwayne wade said it himself and thats no joke. he was interviewed by someone on a show called nba xl, which im not sure they show in the states. o wait....ur from new jersey? lol. ok never mind i wont add to this comment.

Yeah Vince made that buzzer beater against Miami, but that wasn't a 3, it was a 2 from the corner. He also got a lucky roll, Also its his what? his 9th season in the NBA? In Wade's rookie season in the first round of the playoffs, he had the ball with like 8 seconds left, drove hard to the basket and made the shot to win the game. And he will do it plenty more times.

And I have to give most athletic to Lebron James.

OMG I fully remember it was a 3.. they were down by 3 points otherwise y would u think they were trying to take a shot from so far out? vince attempted 3 3s to tie it, he missed 2 b4 that 1. and did u c vince make the 3 point buzzer beating game winner against his old team, the raptors? did u? 42 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists. 18/35 fg, above 50%. 3/5 3pt, 60%. and he got 2 threes in the last 20 seconds to win the game. 24 points in the fourth quarter when his team needed it the most.

Originally posted by tanjot
OMG I fully remember it was a 3.. they were down by 3 points otherwise y would u think they were trying to take a shot from so far out? vince attempted 3 3s to tie it, he missed 2 b4 that 1. and did u c vince make the 3 point buzzer beating game winner against his old team, the raptors? did u? 42 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists. 18/35 fg, above 50%. 3/5 3pt, 60%. and he got 2 threes in the last 20 seconds to win the game. 24 points in the fourth quarter when his team needed it the most.

No it was definatley a 2. They took a shot from so far out because there was no time left. If Vince would have took a dribble or anything then he would not have been able to got the shot off in time and they would've lost. It wasn't even that far out, maybe a little longer then how far a foul shot is.

OK? So you showed statistics to one game? I could show statistics to one of Wade's great games too. If you think I'm saying Vince Carter isn't good, thats not it. I'm just saying Wade is better. And I'm sure many people will agree with me.

Tanjot, you are obviously a big Carter fan which is cool. But if you are gonna start these threads then you have to expect people to disagree, bombarding people with stats and player of the month awards isnt gonna change their mind.
Vince is an exciting player no doubt and im glad he has answered some of his critics this year and raised his game in the last month or so. But i'd go with Wade here as well, he can do everything Vince does except shot from outside. He is a better defender, rebounder and passer. I think Carter vs T-Mac is closer than this one as they have a similar game and please dont start a Vince vs Kobe thread, that would be over before it began.

VC is a better shooter. Thats about it. Dwyane Wade is much better all around. I also believe that in Tanjot's T-Mac vs VC thread that he kept using VC advancing to the second round as a means for showing who's better. So in that case, VC made it to the 2nd round once and Wade has made it to the 2nd and 3rd round. Not only that, but VC is 1 for 7 (14.3%) for making it out of the first round while Wade is 2 for 2 (100%) or even without Shaq he is 1 for 1.

As for awards (because I know you like discussing hardware ), VC has earned more but I would much rather take Wade's in a less amount of time. VC's most impressive awards are All NBA 2nd team (2001) and All NBA 3rd team (2000). Both quite a while ago (and for dunk contest, well that doesn't really show how good of a player one is). Wade by just his second season has earned All NBA 2nd team (equivelant to VC's most impressive award in 7 seasons) and All NBA Defensive 2nd team. Defense has never been something VC has been honored for.

Btw tanjot, even though so far I have disagreed almost 100% with your opinions of who is better thus far, I do respect your opinion and I thank you for bringing some liveliness to the forum.

Originally posted by Myth
Btw tanjot, even though so far I have disagreed almost 100% with your opinions of who is better thus far, I do respect your opinion and I thank you for bringing some liveliness to the forum.

Well said as usual Myth, nothing wrong with different opinions as long as it stays civil.

Originally posted by Myth

Btw tanjot, even though so far I have disagreed almost 100% with your opinions of who is better thus far, I do respect your opinion and I thank you for bringing some liveliness to the forum.

danzeke, i am 100% sure that it was a 3 pointer, vince took 2 3s b4 he made that one at the buzzer, he shot the first 1 with aboout 8 seconds left which is more than enough time to drive to the basket and attempt to draw the foul. i was watching the game, and that highlight has been shown many times before. next time u c it, u can assure urself because i already know that i am right. one of the announcers said it when they were showing the replay, "vince carter hits the 3 pointer at the buzzer to force the game into overtime." by the way, who saw vince play his old team? 42 points, 10 boards, 4 assists, and the game winning 3 pointer with 0.1 seconds left. 24 points in the fourth quarter.

Its not that hard to get those numbers against the Raptors (sorry Raptor fans).

Originally posted by tanjot
danzeke, i am 100% sure that it was a 3 pointer, vince took 2 3s b4 he made that one at the buzzer, he shot the first 1 with aboout 8 seconds left which is more than enough time to drive to the basket and attempt to draw the foul. i was watching the game, and that highlight has been shown many times before. next time u c it, u can assure urself because i already know that i am right. one of the announcers said it when they were showing the replay, "vince carter hits the 3 pointer at the buzzer to force the game into overtime." by the way, who saw vince play his old team? 42 points, 10 boards, 4 assists, and the game winning 3 pointer with 0.1 seconds left. 24 points in the fourth quarter.

I was watching the game too. It was a 2 pointer. Look, heres proof.

http://www.nba.com/games/20050428/MIANJN/recap.html

"Five straight points by O'Neal gave the Heat a 99-97 lead late in the first overtime. After going more than three minutes without a basket, the Nets tied it as a baseline jumper by Vince Carter rattled out, off the backboard and back in at the buzzer."

Originally posted by tanjot
by the way, who saw vince play his old team? 42 points, 10 boards, 4 assists, and the game winning 3 pointer with 0.1 seconds left. 24 points in the fourth quarter.

Just for the sake of compairing tonights performances:
MPG:
VC: 45:16
Wade: 27:51 (keep in mind that Wade played nearly 20 minutes less)

PPG:
VC: 42
Wade: 31

Shooting:
VC: 18 for 35
Wade: 13 for 17 (Took VC nearly 20 more minutes and more than twice as many shots to achieve 11 more points)

Rebounds:
VC: 10
Wade: 5

Assists:
VC: 3
Wade: 7

Stls:
VC: 2
Wade: 6

TOs:
VC: 3
Wade: 2

Blocks
Both had 0

Additional notes:
-Vince had Kidd dishing out assists like crazy (15 assists)
-Both Nets and Miami won against fairly equal shitty teams. VC played great at the end of the game for the win. However, Wade played great early on and didn't even have to play by the end. I'd say Wade had the better overall night.

ok, so tell me this.... is it hard to score a lot of points against the miami heat???? it is isnt it? gary payton, shaq, dwayne wade... all good defensive players.. andf oh yeah u can add in alonzo mourning. so... vince scored 51 points, and u know how every1 says that wade drives to the basket more. vince made 23/24 free throws that game. u cant hold anything against vicne for that performance though, now can u? and danzeke, plz get this through ur thick skull, im saying it the way i am because u r not ready 2 admit

Originally posted by tanjot
danzeke, plz get this through ur thick skull, im saying it the way i am because u r not ready 2 admit

He already posted a link with the recap on, how much more proof do you require?
Look its ok that you think Vince is a better player, but you dont seem to be changing anyone elses mind with your arguments.

ok... so tell me this... would it b easy 2 get BETTER stats than those he had in the raptors game, against the heat? no right? he had 51 points against the heat, who have gary payton, shaq, and dwayne wade. u can say what u want about how wade attacks the rim more, but vince attempted 24 free throws that game and made 23 of them. plus, danzeke, dont put in stats.. because they both play different positions, which OBVIOUSLY differs their stats. dwayne wade plays pg/sg, and vince play sg/sf, and i dont know of anything shooting guard or shooting forward that has any chance to average close to 10 assists a season. a point guard though, thats their job and wade has played that position many many times.. thats his job.. vince's job is to score. wade's job is a whole lot different even though he does do a lot of scoring.

You cant say look at Carters stats in the Heat/Raptors games and then say that DanZeke cant use stats to prove his point, what kind of debate is that?

Originally posted by tanjot
ok, so tell me this.... is it hard to score a lot of points against the miami heat???? it is isnt it? gary payton, shaq, dwayne wade... all good defensive players.. andf oh yeah u can add in alonzo mourning. so... vince scored 51 points, and u know how every1 says that wade drives to the basket more. vince made 23/24 free throws that game. u cant hold anything against vicne for that performance though, now can u? and danzeke, plz get this through ur thick skull, im saying it the way i am because u r not ready 2 admit

I'm sorry buddy, but your the one who is afraid to admit your wrong.

Originally posted by tanjot
ok, so tell me this.... is it hard to score a lot of points against the miami heat???? it is isnt it? gary payton, shaq, dwayne wade... all good defensive players.. andf oh yeah u can add in alonzo mourning. so... vince scored 51 points, and u know how every1 says that wade drives to the basket more. vince made 23/24 free throws that game. u cant hold anything against vicne for that performance though, now can u? and danzeke, plz get this through ur thick skull, im saying it the way i am because u r not ready 2 admit

Nobody is denying that VC is a really really good player. Besides, one game still doesn't prove anything. Most people (not all) would choose Wade to lead their team over VC.

wats with these comparing threads lately? they both include vince carter.

tanjot is just a big fan I guess. Next we're going to see "Who is better, Vince Carter or Michael Jordan." If I see that then their is no limit and I will post "Vince Carter vs Eric Montross".

lol @ Eric Montross, classic.

but it is hard to score 51 points against the heat....

The Heat are not really that good defensively. Their perimeter D is weak, Wade is good defensively thats all and Jason Williams plays revolving door defense. If Walker plays SF then they are even worse on the perimeter, Posey is a better option. Mourning is a way better defensive player than Snaq, he at least goes after shots. Snaq only goes after shots that come directly at him where Mourning goes after anything inside the 3pt line. Snaq at his size should lead the league in blocks every year but he is lazy on D, compare his effort on D to Ben Wallace for example. Payton is not the glove anymore, more like the mitten.
That being said im not trying to diminish Carter's 51pt game, im just saying that the Heat are not an elite defensive team and they dont have a player capable of slowing Vince down like the Spurs or Pistons.

Originally posted by tanjot
but it is hard to score 51 points against the heat....

Yes it is. Its hard to score 51 any game. Anybody who can do that against any team obviously has talent. Nobody is denying that.

danzeke what u originally posted, which was a quote said that vince made a baseline jumper.... which doesnt say that it was a 2 point or 3 point baseline jumper, y can u not accept that ur wrong??? i am TOTALLY TOTALLY TOTALLY TOTALLY 100% SURE that it was a 3 pointer. i was watching the game, actually, u know what else, i recorded the game. if ur going to prove something dont tell me... look at highlights on televison, and then u can clearly c what the truth. the reason im telling u this, is because im not giving u my opinion, im giving u facts because i know that it was a 3.

u know what danzeke, i dont care whether ur willing to admit that ur wrong, but either way it was vince that hit the jumper to tie the game, no matter how many times it bounced around the rim, it went it.

Just do the math man, if the Heat are up 99-97 and Carter hits a three at the buzzer its game over. He tied the game so it has to be a 2.

Originally posted by tanjot
danzeke what u originally posted, which was a quote said that vince made a baseline jumper.... which doesnt say that it was a 2 point or 3 point baseline jumper, y can u not accept that ur wrong??? i am TOTALLY TOTALLY TOTALLY TOTALLY 100% SURE that it was a 3 pointer. i was watching the game, actually, u know what else, i recorded the game. if ur going to prove something dont tell me... look at highlights on televison, and then u can clearly c what the truth. the reason im telling u this, is because im not giving u my opinion, im giving u facts because i know that it was a 3.

Are you retarded? Click on the damn link I posted. Then either read the article which says clearley that the score was 99-97,(and since you seem to have trouble with math, thats a 2 point lead) and then he tied it to send it to the first OT. So yeah, your right, he hit a 3 pointer to tie the game when they were down by two.

Or, if for some reason you don't believe that, then click on the link to the highlights, because that is visual evidence that it was a 2. You do have eyes, right?

It was a two. The End. I win.

was deffo a two

I must say myself that it appears from the recap that it was a two.

"I had missed a three-pointer earlier and I wanted another opportunity," said Carter, who made 15-of-37 shots. "I got lucky. We were fortunate, it gave us a new life."

RU HAPPY!!?? I GAVE U PROOF OUT OF UR OWN ****EN POSTED ARTICLE

ill say it again, watch the highlights and then u will c... i dont know any other way to say it than i already have. vince took two three pointers before he made that one.. i swear i was watching the damn game.

Let it go man, let it go.

Originally posted by tanjot
ill say it again, watch the highlights and then u will c... i dont know any other way to say it than i already have. vince took two three pointers before he made that one.. i swear i was watching the damn game.

You seriously need to STFU. The highlights are right on the friggen page. Click the link and watch the damn video. I was watching the game too. And I was rooting for the Nets since I live in NJ and I like them a little even though they play on the other side of NJ(well its really NY but that don't matter right now.)

Yeah he only made 2 three-pointers, but that wasn't one of them, the other came in one of the OTs.

Originally posted by tanjot
"I had missed a three-pointer earlier and I wanted another opportunity," said Carter, who made 15-of-37 shots. "I got lucky. We were fortunate, it gave us a new life."

RU HAPPY!!?? I GAVE U PROOF OUT OF UR OWN ****EN POSTED ARTICLE


Tell me how that says it was a three pointer? He just says "another opportunity" he didn't say "another three."

You are seriously retarded. They were down by two, Carter hit a shot, and it goes into OT. So it was a 2.

You are wrong. Everybody else knows you are wrong. Just admit it because you are making a fool of yourself.

EDIT: Look, I'll make it easier for you.

http://www.nba.com/games/20050428/MIANJN/recap.html

It says "NBA TV Highlights from Nets-Heat 300k IT. Click on the "300k" and watch the video. Even the announcer clearly says "and Vince Carter ties it from just inside the 3 point line."

You probaly think I am an ass now, but its just that i hate people telling me that I'm wrong when I know that I am right. ANd especially the way you are doing it.

dont call me retarted u ****en crackhead, like i said afterwards its still vince who hit the shot and u have been talking a lot of smack lately so u need to stfu, not me.

Originally posted by tanjot
dont call me retarted u ****en crackhead, like i said afterwards its still vince who hit the shot and u have been talking a lot of smack lately so u need to stfu, not me.

So you finally admitted your wrong? Jeez that took a lot, when I explained it to you 8000 times. I never said Vince didn't hit the shot, and I never said it wasn't a good shot, I am just saying that you were wrong.

Yeah, I'm the crackhead when it took you 6043 years to figure out it was a 2 pointer.

Anyway, its over.

u know what u said, about how u hate people telling u that ur wrong when u know that u are right... thats the way it is with me too... because u r wrong, and i am right... you just dont know it yet.

and no... i didnt say that i was wrong, and im not going to any time soon... so lets just forget this conversation....

Originally posted by tanjot
u know what u said, about how u hate people telling u that ur wrong when u know that u are right... thats the way it is with me too... because u r wrong, and i am right... you just dont know it yet.

Wow, you still believe your right.

Did you watch the video?

Tanjot give it up man, this is getting ridiculous. Most of the hoops discussions we have here are good natured with hardly any abuse, just agree to disagree and end it.

Well, I'm done with it anyway, I've done enough to prove that I'm right.

Anyway, back on topic, i remeber you saying statistics are nothing if your team doesn't win. Well, the Heat have the better record now(23-15 to 19-15) and in the last 2 games Wade has had a triple-double(his second) and then 31 points 8 rebounds and 8 assists. Also he had 14 assists in the triple-double game. Oh, and Vince doesn't have any triple-doubles.

Wade better be hoping that Snaq is gonna get back in shape for the playoffs or they aint touching Detroit. Did anyone see Snaq get stuffed TWICE by Ostertag yesterday? One attempt was a dunk.

danzeke ur starting to get a little too cocky there... i never let anyone else end it, this can go on forever... so lets just forget this arguement, because i already know i am right.

Originally posted by tanjot
danzeke ur starting to get a little too cocky there... i never let anyone else end it, this can go on forever... so lets just forget this arguement, because i already know i am right.



This is the funniest thing I've ever heard. But hey, if you believ your right that okay, even though you are wrong and havn't even come close to being right.

Wow, I finally watched the highlights to that game and tanjot, you are so DEAD WRONG. As Danzeke pointed out, the anouncer says, "Just inside the 3." Then it shows a replay of the shot where Vince's HEELS are about 6inches IN FRONT of the three-point line. It wasn't even a toe on the line. He was clearly infront of it. Just admit your wrong to save yourself anymore embarrassment.

u sure he wasnt a ft inside the line? it was pretty obvious

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaddeeee

Originally posted by darth_royke
u sure he wasnt a ft inside the line? it was pretty obvious

6 inches.... a foot..... somewhere in there. The point is that he was for sure in the 2-point range.

lets just move on to another arguement PLZ... bcz like i said whether its a 2 or a 3 its vince who hit the shot.. and this is starting to get annoying...

ill just list his stats for that game: 37 points, 9 boards, 10 assists. 1 board away from a triple double.

Don't forget this stat: 1 L in the win/loss column.

im not....and i know i am the one that made that point... but can we plz move on to another game or something...

vince carter is a cop out *****. he only tries when hes making enough money. plus he fakes injuries about 700 times a season. dwyane may not have as much skill as him, but he sure as hell is a better athlete.

And he has more skill.

Vinsanity>>>>>>wack-ass wade

no diss to the fans tho

Sorry Point but as incredible as that dunk was it doesnt make him better than Wade in my book. Other wise Tom Chambers would have game after smashing on Mark Jackson.

yeh that dunk is sick... but where is that defender again? and if i was him, vince woulda been lying on the floor before he got over me to dunk that. i'd rather take a flagrant fould than eb remembered for being posterized like that. was his name fred or frank weiss?

vince carter is a freaking baby. at least dwayne tries his hardest every game. vince is all about the cash. he gave up on the raptors. i admit he has skill and probably more than wade, but wade is a better athlete.

So, does anybody else think Carter didn't feel like playing against the Blazers because he was depressed after having 3 points and 5 turn-overs Wednesday?

wade is a better athlete!? OOOOKK.... how can u say that so easily, most nets games i watch always have the commentator talking about vince's athleticism in some way.... i wont say he is a better athlete by far, but they are both great athletes.

Originally posted by Myth
So, does anybody else think Carter didn't feel like playing against the Blazers because he was depressed after having 3 points and 5 turn-overs Wednesday?

for ur info... vince got injured 2 minutes into the game b4 that against los angelos and still played through it... the reason he played bad was bcz he was playing through injury with back spasms.

had to add on something, i dont care HOW LONG AGO it was.... HOW CAN U POSSIBLY SAY WADE IS A BETTER ATHLETE THAN VINCE AFTER SO EASILY DESPITE SEEING HIM JUMP RIGHT OVER 7FOOT2 FREDERIC WEIS!!! AND THIS YEARS CROWN OVER ZO!!!!????

Originally posted by tanjot
had to add on something, i dont care HOW LONG AGO it was.... HOW CAN U POSSIBLY SAY WADE IS A BETTER ATHLETE THAN VINCE AFTER SO EASILY DESPITE SEEING HIM JUMP RIGHT OVER 7FOOT2 FREDERIC WEIS!!! AND THIS YEARS CROWN OVER ZO!!!!????

Just because you had good timing over a giant oaf that doesn't even raise his hands in defense doesn't mean your more athletic. I do believe Vince can jump higher but thats not the only thing that is considered athletic.

As for Vince not playing well, I was obviously taking a cheap shot at him for having a bad game just to get on your nerves. It worked.

Originally posted by tanjot
had to add on something, i dont care HOW LONG AGO it was.... HOW CAN U POSSIBLY SAY WADE IS A BETTER ATHLETE THAN VINCE AFTER SO EASILY DESPITE SEEING HIM JUMP RIGHT OVER 7FOOT2 FREDERIC WEIS!!! AND THIS YEARS CROWN OVER ZO!!!!????

Dunking is only one aspect of being athletic. There is also speed, endurance, toughness. Vince is better athletically at dunking than Wade but Wade is quicker, has better endurance, and is better conditioned to take punishment.

I consider it a lot more athletic to be able to make shots with lots of contact that are extremely tough for the average player to make than a guy who can jump really high.

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove
Dunking is only one aspect of being athletic. There is also speed, endurance, toughness. Vince is better athletically at dunking than Wade but Wade is quicker, has better endurance, and is better conditioned to take punishment.

I consider it a lot more athletic to be able to make shots with lots of contact that are extremely tough for the average player to make than a guy who can jump really high.

QFT.

Originally posted by Myth
Just because you had good timing over a giant oaf that doesn't even raise his hands in defense doesn't mean your more athletic. I do believe Vince can jump higher but thats not the only thing that is considered athletic.

As for Vince not playing well, I was obviously taking a cheap shot at him for having a bad game just to get on your nerves. It worked.

lol, ur funny...

i know vince has been very injury prone in toronto, and has gotten injured this season with new jersey but he is no longer injury prone. with his new team he is trying hard 2 play through injuries as much as he can. as for athleticism between wade n vince, if ur going to give an aspect that u think wade is better at, then give a reason...dont just say hes quicker, or that he has more endurance... give facts that prove it, and plz dont use mpg because that proves nothing.

Its hard to say a guy is not injury prone when he just sat out a game because of an injury.

Originally posted by tanjot
i know vince has been very injury prone in toronto, and has gotten injured this season with new jersey but he is no longer injury prone. with his new team he is trying hard 2 play through injuries as much as he can. as for athleticism between wade n vince, if ur going to give an aspect that u think wade is better at, then give a reason...dont just say hes quicker, or that he has more endurance... give facts that prove it, and plz dont use mpg because that proves nothing.


How are we supposed to give facts about somebody being more athletic then somebody else. You can't. Its all opinion. And most people have the opinion that Wade is more athletic.

We can't tell Vince and Wade to have a race to see who is quicker, but you can just tell that Wade is quicker when he plays. And we also can't prove 100% that Wade has more endurance, but he has played through more injuries then Vince IMO, and actually played well while he was injured.

Originally posted by Myth
Its hard to say a guy is not injury prone when he just sat out a game because of an injury.

"injury prone" means that a player is likely to get injured in any game, the way vince did in toronto....where if someone pushed him and he fell to the ground, u knew he was out for 3 weeks. but that was toronto, in new jersey he has been injured and not played in about 3 games or so.. so that does not mean he is "injury prone."

Well, I guess there is no operational definition for injury prone so I guess for now its just a matter of opinion.

if u say so...bcz what i gave u is the meaning and vince is no longer injury prone.

no further debates??

anyways...let me start off new conversation by saying....carter is a better player than wade hands down.

Wade scored 17 points in a row in 3:30 seconds against the best team in the league and the best defense, the Pistons. And he also hit the GW shot with 2.6 seconds left.

This game alone if better than anything Vince has done this year.

Originally posted by tanjot
anyways...let me start off new conversation by saying....carter is a better player than wade hands down.

This isnt really anything new though is it? You've had the same opinion this whole time and so far nobody has agreed with you.

Wade > Carter.
Kobe >>> Carter
KG >>> Carter
Duncan >>> Carter
LeBron > Carter
AI >> Carter
T-Mac > Carter
Shawn Bradley >> Carter (just kidding, you can have that one).

Originally posted by koolruningz
This isnt really anything new though is it? You've had the same opinion this whole time and so far nobody has agreed with you.

Wade > Carter.
Kobe >>> Carter
KG >>> Carter
Duncan >>> Carter
LeBron > Carter
AI >> Carter
T-Mac > Carter
Shawn Bradley >> Carter (just kidding, you can have that one).

since u dont agree with me on wade, and kobe, ill give u that, even kg, ill give u that...but a.i. and t-mac, ill argue those two much more than this...and dan....who was it again that vince dropped 51 on?? OH YEAH...it was the heat, that was the same game that wade shot...4-20fg wasnt it?? OH YEAH IT WAS.

Originally posted by koolruningz

AI >> Carter
T-Mac > Carter


Its hard to take your opinion seriously when you are such a Carter nut hugger, but nobody is asking you to agree.

carter better than ai?? haha... you make me laugh man... hes tougher than vince and half a foot smaller! plus hes an incredible scorer, good passer, and hes changed to his teams needs... unlike vince, who, once again i'll say this, bolted rather than adapt in toronto. carter better than mcgrady? possibly...

If i could add either Carter or T-Mac to the Lakers it would be T-Mac. He is a better defender (not great but better), he is a better ballhandler, has a better mid range game (deadly pull up jumper), better range on his jumpshot and he is a better passer. Oh but wait Vince has more top ten plays, ok i changed my mind i want the best dunker.

Originally posted by darth_royke
carter better than ai?? haha... you make me laugh man... hes tougher than vince and half a foot smaller! plus hes an incredible scorer, good passer, and hes changed to his teams needs... unlike vince, who, once again i'll say this, bolted rather than adapt in toronto. carter better than mcgrady? possibly...

Exactly what I was going to say. McGrady is the only guy that I see any legit argument being possibly made.

Originally posted by tanjot
since u dont agree with me on wade, and kobe, ill give u that, even kg, ill give u that...but a.i. and t-mac, ill argue those two much more than this...and dan....who was it again that vince dropped 51 on?? OH YEAH...it was the heat, that was the same game that wade shot...4-20fg wasnt it?? OH YEAH IT WAS.

Two games in a row, against the Jazz and Clippers, Vince had a combined 8 points, and he went 3-23.

Also, Vince Carter has Jason Kidd, one of the best passers in the league, giving him assists all day. Who does Wade have? Jason Williams. Thats who he has, and Williams is a shoot first PG.

Also, Heat Record = 37-20
Nets Record = 31-26.
I remeber you saying it doesn't matter unless your team is winning, and right now, and for the rest of the season, the Heat are doing a better job than that.

Also, saying Vince Carter is better than AI is like saying Earl Boykins could beat Kevin Garnett 1 on 1. Its just stupid, and you have to be stupid if you actually believe it.

Originally posted by DanZeke25
Also, saying Vince Carter is better than AI is like saying Earl Boykins could beat Kevin Garnett 1 on 1. Its just stupid, and you have to be stupid if you actually believe it.

You know you might be on to something there Dan.

i think earl would kick his ass

Then you must be stupid

Originally posted by DanZeke25
Two games in a row, against the Jazz and Clippers, Vince had a combined 8 points, and he went 3-23.

Also, Vince Carter has Jason Kidd, one of the best passers in the league, giving him assists all day. Who does Wade have? Jason Williams. Thats who he has, and Williams is a shoot first PG.

Also, Heat Record = 37-20
Nets Record = 31-26.
I remeber you saying it doesn't matter unless your team is winning, and right now, and for the rest of the season, the Heat are doing a better job than that.

Also, saying Vince Carter is better than AI is like saying Earl Boykins could beat Kevin Garnett 1 on 1. Its just stupid, and you have to be stupid if you actually believe it.


WOOOOOOOW. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOW. so ur telling me all dwayne wade has is jason williams?? LOOOL. ok, first off, he has SHAQ, one of the 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME...um... i dont think its really hard for someone that can play the pg position to be able to dish out atleast 5 assists a game when u have SHAQ on ur team. and again...way to go with the extreme exaggeration, i know you dont think much of vince and like myth thinks i do, i dont want anyone here to agree with me fully...all i want is that you give vince as much respect as he deserves, which he obviously does not recieve. a vince to iveron comparison is not NEARLY the same as a earl boykins to kevin garnett comparison. vince is not a joke, as you claim he is. one on one, between vince and iverson, ill take vince anyday. in a team game, ill say vince is a better shooter, and can get to the basket more easily but refuses to drive some games for some reason which does piss me off. iverson likes to drive all game long, is a good passer because he is a pg and he will get the assists but im telling you right now that vince carter is a very underrated passer, i know you wont agree...but i know he is. both are good free throw shooters, get their teammates open looks, can make the mid range and 3 point jumpshot where i give vince the slight edge, can handle the ball and i give iverson the obvious advantage on that. so all im trying to say is that you do not need to agree with me, but do not overexaggerate because i know if any commentator or even coach was to see what you wrote they would disagree to the extent that you wrote it. not saying they would agree with mine fully, but my argument would be MUCH more reasonable and understantable.

as for the two games in a row where he had a combines 8 points, you know you didnt include all the facts...so ill give em to you, he was playing through a back injury, and im pretty damn sure its not easy to play basketball with a back strain.

Originally posted by tanjot
WOOOOOOOW. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOW. so ur telling me all dwayne wade has is jason williams?? LOOOL. ok, first off, he has SHAQ, one of the 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME...um... i dont think its really hard for someone that can play the pg position to be able to dish out atleast 5 assists a game when u have SHAQ on ur team. and again...way to go with the extreme exaggeration, i know you dont think much of vince and like myth thinks i do, i dont want anyone here to agree with me fully...all i want is that you give vince as much respect as he deserves, which he obviously does not recieve. a vince to iveron comparison is not NEARLY the same as a earl boykins to kevin garnett comparison. vince is not a joke, as you claim he is. one on one, between vince and iverson, ill take vince anyday. in a team game, ill say vince is a better shooter, and can get to the basket more easily but refuses to drive some games for some reason which does piss me off. iverson likes to drive all game long, is a good passer because he is a pg and he will get the assists but im telling you right now that vince carter is a very underrated passer, i know you wont agree...but i know he is. both are good free throw shooters, get their teammates open looks, can make the mid range and 3 point jumpshot where i give vince the slight edge, can handle the ball and i give iverson the obvious advantage on that. so all im trying to say is that you do not need to agree with me, but do not overexaggerate because i know if any commentator or even coach was to see what you wrote they would disagree to the extent that you wrote it. not saying they would agree with mine fully, but my argument would be MUCH more reasonable and understantable.

I was talking point guard only. Otherwise, I would have mentioned Shaq and I would have mentioned Jefferson also for the Nets.

And of course its not nearly the same and Boykins and Garnett. That was a joke. But its still not as close as you believe it is.

Iverson plays with 100% more heart than Vince does. Iverson has been on a bad team since 2001, and still every single play he gives it 120%. IMO that counts when you are comparing players.

As for skills and stats, Iverson averages more points(33.2) and this is without anybody good passing him the ball. Vince has Jason Kidd who is agrueably one of the best passers in the league, even if he is getting older. Iverson also gets almost 8 assists a game, and gets to the free throw line more. Iverson is 5th in the league in steals also.

Carter gets to the basket easier than Iverson? Wow just, wow.

Originally posted by tanjot
WOOOOOOOW. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOW. so ur telling me all dwayne wade has is jason williams?? LOOOL. ok, first off, he has SHAQ, one of the 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME...um... i dont think its really hard for someone that can play the pg position to be able to dish out atleast 5 assists a game when u have SHAQ on ur team.

I don't understand how you mis-understand people so often. You guys were talking about scoring so Dan said that Williams is all Wade has as a PG to pass to him.

As for who gets to the line easier: Carter or Iverson? I have no idea. All I know is Iverson does it more often and it is more effective.

Originally posted by koolruningz
Carter gets to the basket easier than Iverson? Wow just, wow.

i didnt say he "does", i said he "could" because on many nights he settles for a lot of jumpshots whether he makes or missies a lot of em. iverson though...constantly drives and does not settle for jumpshots but i think he can not get to the basket as easily as vince can if vince chooses to.

You're still saying that Vince "can" get to the basket better than Iverson though, which to me means that you think that he is better at that skill. I dont agree, Iverson has way better handles and is much quicker than Carter, both of these skills are essential in getting to the hoop. I would go even further and say that Iverson gets to the hoop better than anyone in the league (Wade would be a close second).

by being able to drive i do not mean only drive using handles and quickness, i mean the ability to score...and i think it is more effortless for vince to score on a drive than it is for iverson, but iverson makes a better effort to drive than vince, who often settles for jumpshots.

WTF are you talking about? How do you drive to the hoop without dribbling the ball? Quickness and handles are essential for driving to the hoop, Iverson is superior in both areas.

If its so effortless for Carter, why does he settle for jump shots?

Originally posted by tanjot
feel free to give ur opinion, i dont mind trash talking but dont over-do it... i like a good debate.

Dwyane way better

Originally posted by Myth
If its so effortless for Carter, why does he settle for jump shots?

i have no idea, announcers even say it, it does piss me off though bcz he is also on my fantasy team.

Dwyane Wade > Vince Carter

Carter can only dunk (vv well btw lol) and sink the odd trey and/or jumper. Wade can distribute, shoot and dunk.

Originally posted by TMACalicious
Dwyane Wade > Vince Carter

Carter can only dunk (vv well btw lol) and sink the odd trey and/or jumper. Wade can distribute, shoot and dunk.

just read what i said in the tmac < carter thread....ill just say vince can dunk better than wade, he can shoot better than wade, and is a much better offensive player. vince is a MUCH better offensive rebounder than wade, and gets double teamed much more than him which creates a lot of open looks for his teammates. i give wade the edge on defence, and handles. vince can pass the ball just as well or better than wade even though he does not average 8 assists. the only reason wade averages a lot of assists is obviously because of shaq. and oh yeah, vince is a better free throw shooter than wade too.

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Dwyane way better

wheres the supporting argument?

Originally posted by tanjot
just read what i said in the tmac < carter thread....ill just say vince can dunk better than wade, he can shoot better than wade, and is a much better offensive player. vince is a MUCH better offensive rebounder than wade, and gets double teamed much more than him which creates a lot of open looks for his teammates. i give wade the edge on defence, and handles. vince can pass the ball just as well or better than wade even though he does not average 8 assists. the only reason wade averages a lot of assists is obviously because of shaq. and oh yeah, vince is a better free throw shooter than wade too.

Does it matter that Vince can jump a little higher and can do more flashy dunks when debating who is better? Funny, you don't bring up how Wade is great at taking contact and as a finisher, (which matters more than dunking) Wade is much better than Carter.

And yet Wade averages a much better FG percentage and scores three more points than Carter. Carter does have more range than Wade offensively, I'll give him that, but Carter is not the better offensive player.

Haha, yeah .2 percent is like a HUGE difference between the two in offensive rebounds.

It's not because of Shaq. Wade gets into the lane better than anybody in the league which consequently opens up teammates for open jumpers or dunks.

Not only that, but Wade gets just as much assits when Shaq is out nursing injuries so its dumb to say "obviously because of shaq". I'd say Carter only has two things over Wade, dunks and threes. Thats it.

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove
Does it matter that Vince can jump a little higher and can do more flashy dunks when debating who is better? Funny, you don't bring up how Wade is great at taking contact and as a finisher, (which matters more than dunking) Wade is much better than Carter.

And yet Wade averages a much better FG percentage and scores three more points than Carter. Carter does have more range than Wade offensively, I'll give him that, but Carter is not the better offensive player.

Haha, yeah .2 percent is like a HUGE difference between the two in offensive rebounds.

It's not because of Shaq. Wade gets into the lane better than anybody in the league which consequently opens up teammates for open jumpers or dunks.

i said vince is much better than wade at grabbing the offensive board based on ability, whether it be a rebound, a tip in, or a tip slam which vince has done plenty of even in hiss days with the raptors...i did not mention stats.

Originally posted by tanjot
i said vince is much better than wade at grabbing the offensive board based on ability, whether it be a rebound, a tip in, or a tip slam which vince has done plenty of even in hiss days with the raptors...i did not mention stats.

You said "Vince is a MUCH better offensive rebounder than wade"

You never said based on ability. Everytime somebody proves you wrong, you try to change what you said to make it look like your right.

If Vince is "MUCH better at offensive rebounds based on 'ABILITY'" than he obviously isn't trying hard enough than if he only averages .2 more. And people who don't try shouldn't be paid. But, if he is trying 100% all the time, than he would have much more offensive rebounds than Wade, wouldn't he?

What the hell are you doing using logic Dan? You know that will just go over his head.

Originally posted by koolruningz
What the hell are you doing using logic Dan? You know that will just go over his head.

ok. first off, i dont know wtf you mean by trying to say that i do not understand logic. just because i do not agree with someone elses and i am defending vince from my logic and belief automatically means im wrong? and dan, you just quoted me saying that vince is a better offensive rebounder than wade based on ability, and then you say i didnt say that?? well if thats good logic, then you keep it up.

Originally posted by tanjot
ok. first off, i dont know wtf you mean by trying to say that i do not understand logic. just because i do not agree with someone elses and i am defending vince from my logic and belief automatically means im wrong? and dan, you just quoted me saying that vince is a better offensive rebounder than wade based on ability, and then you say i didnt say that?? well if thats good logic, then you keep it up.

Listen buddy, in your VERY FIRST POST about Carter being the better offensive rebounder you didn't mention anything about ability. Then you relized that somebody proved you wrong, so you tried changing it to make you look right.

i said he is a much better offensive rebounder in my first post, meaning i did not mention whether i meant on stats or ability. then in ur next post u mentioned stats. i went on to say that what i said was he is better based on ability..so if i did not say it in my first post, then that is what i meant. i do not try to change my post to make myself look right, and i was not wrong to begin with.

The point is, if you didn't clarify in your first post whether it was based on stats or perceived ability, then its fair game to use stats as an argument. You

More logic eh? Well thats the death of this thread then.

Whoops. I deleted my 2nd paragraph earlier but apparently left the "You". Even though it wasn't what I was originally going to say, lets just for shits and giggles finish that sentence with "...f*ck!"

Wade

because...?

Don't bother. I just checked her previous posts and she never seems to give a reason for anything.

a lot like wuta when it comes to answering back to me...he obviously has nothing bad to say about the nets with solid facts and proof. all he can say is that they suck....i could say the same about everything he says but whenever i respond to his posts i make a point. and he tells me i dont understand logic? lol.

vince carter is 10x better

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
vince carter is 10x better

Wrong.

Originally posted by DanZeke25
Wrong.

you're right... he's 100x better

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
you're right... he's 100x better

Negative.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
These "who is better" threads should probably just go into a general NBA thread (which I'm sure we have somewhere).

Vince Carter's the Anakin Skywalker of basketball.

Pure Evil?

Dont get me started with Vince Carter, that guy is the biggest baby(with talent) I have ever seen play the game. And yes I am a Raptor Fan.

Wade is better or better yet Wade will be better then Carter down the line once Wade gets in his prime.

Originally posted by Rade
Dont get me started with Vince Carter, that guy is the biggest baby(with talent) I have ever seen play the game. And yes I am a Raptor Fan.

Wade is better or better yet Wade will be better then Carter down the line once Wade gets in his prime.

yeah you said it, you're a raptor fan so obviously you hate vince and you'll say anything negative about him.

I hate them both, but Vince Carter is a better player than Dwayne Wade.

you know i was joking when i said vince is better, right? wade is better. he basically won the championship for miami. he should not have gotten the mvp, he should have gotten ovp, "only valuable player." believe me, i watched every minute of the finals, and i was rooting for dallas big time unfortunately cause i hate miami. miami was seriously dead in the water, but every last second of every game, wade somehow finds a way to make the game winning play. after dallas lost game 5, i almost cried. they have some stupid motto "15 strong" which is bull. half of active roster doesnt even play, and if it wasnt for wade's heroics, the mavs would have swept them, yes, it is undeniable.

D-Wade is better and I would want himn on my team but Carter can dunk and shoot better.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
he should not have gotten the mvp, he should have gotten ovp, "only valuable player."

I think MVP is still more accurate. Zo was a defensive beast. GP hit some big shots here and there. Shaq wasn't playing like Shaq, but you can't say he held no value in the finals. And the rest of the team didn't play horrible as well. Wade was the key component and had it not been for him, the Heat would have lost, but he didn't do it all by himself.

Other than that, your point is very valid and I agree that he is better than Vince.

as much as i would like to say vince is better, wade proved to me in the playoffs that his name certainly belongs with the top guards in the nba. i hate the heat though. basically all the players i hate in the nba are in that team. im alright with wade, but im not really a shaq fan, i despise alonzo mourning (if you know im a nets fan, you should know why), i hate antoine, gp, posey is just really annoying. and so on.

i really hate those players who are like hitchhikers, and they just go from team to team trying to desperately win a ring. (sigh) such babies.

You could say that about Walker, Mourning, and GP, but Posey doesn't really belong on that list of hitchhikers. He got traded to the Heat. He didn't push for it. He just had lucky timing. Same with Jason Williams (I don't like him much for other reasons, but in this situation he is in the clear).

i know, posey and williams arent hitchhikers. i really have nothing against williams, but posey is just annoying because he always seems to break your heart at the last second. like when nets are down by 2, and vince drives and makes a layup, but at the last second, posey steps in front of him to take the charge. it simply drives me nuts. im like...yea!...damn it.

Oh, I see. I thought your last sentence was in reference to the players you mentioned. I don't think Posey has done too many of those types of things and its not really something you can blame him for, but I understand when somebody does something against your team.

yea, posey isnt that bad. actually he's a pretty good player, considering no one ever talks about him. i just think mourning's too much of a coward to me.

Much of your reasons for disliking the Heat was the reason I was rooting for Dallas. But I'm overall happy because the Heat was one of my fav teams all year.

one of the reasons why i dislike the heat and like the nets is because the heat have so many weapons and so much power and yet they struggle to make it past (of course they ultimately won the championship), but still with the talent they have, they should have dominated and won pretty easily. yet, they practically relied on wade the whole time to bail out their asses. and with SHAQ especially they should have won it in an easier fashion. and plus, every heat fan says shaq saves his best games for the playoffs and the finals. YEAH, sure....(cough...5 points, 6 rebounds in 28 minutes against dallas...cough) he had 1 foul that game, so his limited minutes was not because of foul trouble. he was benched cause he, ummm....how can i phrase this....uhh...layed an egg.

on the flip side, the nets skill and power wise are terribly overrated and many simply say, "oh, they have the big 3 and krstic, so they're a great team, and they should dominate." as good of a team as they look, coming from a guy who watches a lot of their games, in me, i can safely say thats so not true. jason kidd is one the best point guards no doubt, but when a guy's shooting, and im talking about WIDE open shots, gets to the point where 75% of the shots are consistently bricks, its starts to get under your skin. and while jefferson is an ok shooter (he gets a lot of his points on dunks and on the fastbreak), and vince is also ok (he was great last year, but this year he dropped, and oh yeah, he shoots 3's way too much), the only consistent shooter on the nets is krstic, yes the center is the most consistent. and while krstic is skilled, i mean c'mon the guy's 7 foot and he plays weaker than some guards. all im asking for is a semi-dominant center, but krstic is nowhere near that. thats why he takes so many jumpers, he's gets pushed out of the paint. and when you notice that jason collins is the starting power foward, you can sorta get my drift. also, aside from cliffy, whose a little too old imo, no one and i mean no one steps up from the bench. as far as bench, big men, powerful, balanced, and consistent teams go, the nets are near the worst if not the worst in the nba. i thought lamond murray was going to help us, but he didnt do shit. and im serious, his role is shooting, and he shot worse than kidd! and jefferson, while he may be efficient, he's usually not there when the nets need him the most. and krstic plays like a high school player when his team needs him the most. so the only two that you can depend upon is carter and kidd, and the only 1 you can depend upon making big shots is carter, and thats a big stretch. considering all this, the nets were 49-33 during the regular season and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, and if cliff didnt abandon us, we might have made the miami series a contest. just the fact that with such a small franchise and a weak roster, the nets are able to do this, simply amazes me. imo, the knicks are stronger and more talented than the nets, and look where they are.

forgive me for such a long response, but i had to get this off my chest.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110

on the flip side, the nets skill and power wise are terribly overrated and many simply say, "oh, they have the big 3 and krstic, so they're a great team, and they should dominate."

The ironic thing is that I see that your argument (at least from the quoted part) could be flipped on the Heat (not to really argue, but just to point out). You said the Heat "should have dominated and won pretty easily" much like your claim that many people say 'Nets should dominate.' However, I think the Heat players are overrated and they should not be able to dominate. Shaq, GP, Walker and Zo are bigger names on paper than their actual value, making the team not as stacked as they seem. You said that the only guys the Nets can depend on are Carter and Kidd. The Heat on the other hand can really only depend on Wade.

In other words, Heat only has one superstar even though people think they have more. They win based on Wade with support of medicre players and shouldn't be expected to dominate much like you dislike people thinking Nets should dominate.

the heat may be overrated, but not to the extend of the nets. see, while you may think alonzo is mediocre, he would be a starter and a key player in the nets. gary payton would as well, as he is an excellent defender and he can shoot the ball really well, and he would play point to backup kidd. im not really talking about how many superstars the heat have. (thats why the detroit pistons won a championship) just how consistent and how many weapons they can fire in their arsenal. and remember, walker was a starter in the mavs, celtics, hawks (of course). but in the heat, he was a bench player. and shaq, i dont think there should be an argument about him. he should dominate, because um...he's twice the size of everyone in the league, but nonetheless, he played poorly and there shouldn't be excuses. wade isnt the only one that can step up. the heat have a lot of weapons as i said. many of their BENCH players, were starters and key players for other teams. even posey, he started for memphis. and evem michael doleac who started when he was a knick (i know they're a bad team but still), barely gets any playing time for the heat. also, derek anderson, a starter for the blazers, barely got any playing time for the heat. udonis haslem, one of the great athletic rebounders in the nba. while, on the flip side, the nets who just signed eddie house, are going to praise him as their lead bench player and REALLY depend on him. while other teams would barely play him. see what i mean?

im not bashing what you said. but please im being generous here. say anything but, "the heat shouldnt have dominated and they're overrated." please, i mean if the nets acquired shaq from the heat, and nobody else, imagine how much more dominating they would be. and then now, imagine if the nets acquired all the heat players and removed their sucky bench. you cant even imagine how good they would be. if you look at it from this perspective, you can see just how spirited the nets are in being 49-33 with the worst bench in history. just add one dominat player. i dont care which, whether its shaq, wade, or even walker, and they jump straight into being championship contenders. see, the nets depend on and focus on every single player because they dont have many decent ones, while the heat, people say, "oh, they only have shaq and wade," when thats not true. the others just dont play up to their potentials. If someone like derek anderson, who the heat barely look at, came to the nets, the nets would honor him and kiss the lord (literally), from the way the nets reacted to acquiring house, they would be even more elated to get anderson, while the heat would barely see them. anderson would get a whole lot more minutes with the nets. thats the difference between the heat and the nets. see how much more powerful the heat are? also, having more decent players to turn to is not only better because the players are overall better, its better also because you dont have to rely on your starters so much. you can make many substitutions. do you know how much the nets have no choice but to rely on carter? do you know the plays they run? 80% percent of the time, they do iso with carter or jefferson.

I agree with what you said about the Nets. And I also agree that the Heat have more to work with than the Nets. In fact, I was in no way trying to invalidate your statement. All I'm saying is that similar arguments can be made about the Heat (to a lesser extent).

To clarify what I meant with Shaq, Zo, Walker and GP:
-Shaq, Zo and GP all look better on paper than they really are because of who they used to be. I really don't see Shaq or Zo as mediocre, but they are no longer superstars IMO, they just used to be. Shaq may still be the best C in the league, but I don't think there are any C superstars left. But based on their names and peoples' past thoughts of them, it makes them overrated
-GP I really do think has hit the mediocre mark. Hell, he is a backup to somebody once deemed by analysts as 'the worst starting PG in the league.' Jason Williams has improved some since that comment was first made but he still isn't anything great and GP backs him up. So again, GP used to be something great which skews views and makes him overrated.
-Walker, well, I hope I don't actually have to explain him but I will touch on him briefly just incase. He has been deemed "overrated" so much that I don't think he really is overrated anymore per se because the word is out on him. However, on paper it doesn't hinder peoples opinions because it is still a recognizable name and actually would boost peoples' opinion of the team (this works by way of representative heuristics if anybody here understands that psychological term).