Living Tribunal vs. Beyonder

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DrDoom101
Who will win?

roughrider
Been done. Check search.

DrDoom101
i did...

GalacticStorm
Pre retcon Beyonder. Its stated that he was more powerful in Secret Wars 2.

Fishy 500
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Pre retcon Beyonder. Its stated that he was more powerful in Secret Wars 2.

Than the L.T. ?

demigawd
Yeah, he already beat LT, which at the time, was supposed to actually be LT.

Fishy 500
Originally posted by demigawd
Yeah, he already beat LT, which at the time, was supposed to actually be LT.

He fights the L.T. in the 2nd secret wars ?

demigawd
yeah, LT was one of the cosmics Beyonder punked.

King KAM
Damn I hate wonderman.........

golem370
"Not very at all, at least from the viewpoint of the cosmic entities. Beyonder deluded himself with his own powers, the ones that are usually used to grant wishes to the wielders of the Cubes. To the Beyonder, he thought he had destroyed the various Celestial entities he encountered, but in truth, they were all nothing more than illusions manifested by his own powers".

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by golem370
"Not very at all, at least from the viewpoint of the cosmic entities. Beyonder deluded himself with his own powers, the ones that are usually used to grant wishes to the wielders of the Cubes. To the Beyonder, he thought he had destroyed the various Celestial entities he encountered, but in truth, they were all nothing more than illusions manifested by his own powers".

We know this, but we're talking from a pre-retcon standpoint, where all his feats were actually true.

golem370
Beyonders is not as powerful as he thought he was beaten by Thanos and Kubik

Maestro
Originally posted by golem370
"Not very at all, at least from the viewpoint of the cosmic entities. Beyonder deluded himself with his own powers, the ones that are usually used to grant wishes to the wielders of the Cubes. To the Beyonder, he thought he had destroyed the various Celestial entities he encountered, but in truth, they were all nothing more than illusions manifested by his own powers".

Have you met my friend plagiarism?

golem370
I don't care at the time that he exsisted there proably much know about LT now that we know that Living Tribunal only answers to TOAA do you really think Beyonder would have a chance against him.

DrDoom101
Originally posted by Maestro
Have you met my friend plagiarism? Hi Plagiarism. Im Victor.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by golem370
Beyonders is not as powerful as he thought he was beaten by Thanos and Kubik

Try and understand that back when he came out, in Secret wars 1 and 2 all his feats were true. The editors of Marvel deemed him too powerful and didnt like how he upset the cosmology so they introduced a retcon wherein all this time he was only half a cosmic cube. Those showings your talking of happened after the retcon so they stand to reason.

We're talking about before the retcon. Ok?

golem370
There are quote marks. I am Quoting what the website said.

golem370
The first Beyonder was more powerful then the one who got beat by Kubik or Thanos?

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by golem370
The first Beyonder was more powerful then the one who got beat by Kubik or Thanos?

The original Beyonder was more powerful than LT. That was stated in Secret Wars 2.

Then the retcon was introduced wherein he was depowered and made half a C Cube.

However we're talking from a pre-retcon standpoint.

The Beyonder who fought Kubik and Thanos was after the retcon. If it was before the retcon he would have wiped them out with a thought.

golem370
What I am reading it said before the Recton they wanted to tie him in with the Beyonders is that true?

golem370
But how much really did people know about LT then?

Mordum
SCANS WE WANTY SCANS.......anyone?

Mider
LT was there he couldnt stop beyonder from killing death.

golem370
What about TOAA could he not have had LT stop him?

Mordum
Found the scans i was looking for.

Mordum
another.

Mordum
and another. if anyone wants more just ask the answer man big grin me.

Mider
the original beyonder before the reconn just by dieing was said to release the total power of the multiverse times like over 100 maybe even 200 i dont remeber i have the comic upstairs but yeah it was definatly multiplied by a 100 or in the hundreds

Mider
you think that thanos defeated the celestials badly pfft beyonder took them on HAND TO HAND and beat the crap out of them.

superman420sexy
Is the beyonder more powerful than anyone before the reconn?

Psycho Ninja
Yep, before retcon he was the most powerful being in the MU, just like imps in the DCU.....

superman420sexy
so he could cock slap me from another universe?

superman420sexy
could he?

Juntai
Originally posted by Psycho Ninja
Yep, before retcon he was the most powerful being in the MU, just like imps in the DCU..... Spectre's been top forever, but for a while he was 'depowered' as punishment from God.

golem370
The only reason Beyonder was made that powerful was by his creator Marvel never intended him to be that they said the writer over step his bounds by making him that powerful.

"The Beyonder was a controversial character amongst creators. Creators felt that Jim Shooter had abused his role as editor-in-chief, and forced the use of the omnipotent character upon other writers and editors. Some critics felt the crossovers didn't always mesh well with the main book. One of the most vocal critics was John Byrne.

Apparently, Steve Englehart wanted to tie in the Beyonder to older characters known as the Beyonders (first mentioned in the team-up comic Marvel Two-in-One #63, beings powerful enough to collect planets) for his "Secret Wars III' story in Fantastic Four #318-319. According to Englehart, editor Ralph Macchio hated the character and ordered the Beyonder "removed" from the Marvel Universe. Englehart did as asked but has stated that he tried to exile the character with dignity. The character was subjected to a retcon making him less potent that originally determined, and explanations of his omnipotence have been written off as the more powerful beings "playing along" because the Beyonder's role was pre-determined".

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonder"

Ex11B
laughing

dbayin46
could anyone show or point me to scans of the pre retcon beyonder beating all the other cosmic beings. I read somewhere that Stan Lee said the classic beyonder's the most powerful being ever in Marvel. Does anyone know from what book is this statement?

rotiart
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t412978.html

Beyonder at one point, when regaining his powers was stated to be "millions of times more than all the powers of the rest of the multiverse combined"

Pre-retcon was more powerful that LT whos powers were limited to the Multiverse.

bigbran
is there scans of beyonder taking out LT?

rotiart
I honestly don't remember if beyonder actually fought LT. But however if you look in the above scan posted by Mordum, every being in the universe, pretty much including LT, gave reverence to Molecule man, and safe passage. They respected him, and asked that he do what they couldn't. To defeat the beyonder. In the site I provided, the two fought, and the reprecussions were seen across the multiverse.

Please look at the beyonder respect thread I provided above. It was excellently done by those who helped to provide it.

Mordum
He never fought any of the cosmics except the celestials. The rest of the cosmics just stood there. Its assumed they could not defeat him but they never fought. Lt looks funny hes all out of color.lol

rotiart
I really need to find Secret Wars to reread it. smile

xmeat
bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bump.

guy222
Originally posted by xmeat
bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bump.

Good evening. LT. I know about Secret Wars('84-85). Shooter etc. Hence the retcon. Idiots couldn't get along. Controversy happens. It did sell well. Who always lives? Who is God's son? Who guards the Multiverse? Beyonder is a True Beyonder. Hopefully, they don't mess that up. Who allowed the Beyonders in? Who spoke to Eternity/Chaos/Order? The Ommipotent LT. Nuff said.

Thanos_THOTU
The Living Tribunal was scared of the Beyonder, and it was aware of that he could do a thing to him.
The Beyonder also said that even the strongest beings were as microbes to him. -- The Living Tribunal is chansless.

xmeat
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Living Tribunal was scared of the Beyonder, and it was aware of that he could do a thing to him.
The Beyonder also said that even the strongest beings were as microbes to him. -- The Living Tribunal is chansless. back then we didn't even know who LT was he was just a guy with three faces it wasn't til after retcon we learned who he was and who he served.

guy222
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Living Tribunal was scared of the Beyonder, and it was aware of that he could do a thing to him.
The Beyonder also said that even the strongest beings were as microbes to him. -- The Living Tribunal is chansless.

Back in '84-85. Retcon happened. THOTU, why the retcon?

guy222
Originally posted by xmeat
back then we didn't even know who LT was he was just a guy with three faces it wasn't til after retcon we learned who he was and who he served.

I knew about LT in ST #157-158

jasonk3
The living tribunal wins

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by jasonk3
The living tribunal wins
You're signature speaks for you my friend ...

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by xmeat
back then we didn't even know who LT was he was just a guy with three faces it wasn't til after retcon we learned who he was and who he served.
The Living Tribunal have existed since -67, long before the Sectret Wars, he just didn't have a big roll there cause ... Beyonder was simply greater.

Galan007
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
He fights the L.T. in the 2nd secret wars ? Originally posted by demigawd
yeah, LT was one of the cosmics Beyonder punked. no

Beyonder never actually battled LT.

It's just assumed that Beyonder was far more powerful, simply because LT wouldn't even try to intervene to halt him.



Beyonder ftw.

Utrigita
this depends on which LT are we talking the LT from the secret wars ore the LT that we all know today it makes a difference, if its the good old times then yes beyonder would probably win, today I think it will be different as LT's powers has changed and growed from that time, and a lot of things has changed in marvel.

By the way where did the hoster said this was retcon we where discussing

guy222
Originally posted by Utrigita
this depends on which LT are we talking the LT from the secret wars ore the LT that we all know today it makes a difference, if its the good old times then yes beyonder would probably win, today I think it will be different as LT's powers has changed and growed from that time, and a lot of things has changed in marvel.

By the way where did the hoster said this was retcon we where discussing

'84-85. When comics were written poorly. All I say, is MM/Beyonder were so powerful, why the retcon. Someone didn't get along. Oh well. LT still exists. Does Owen/Man from Beyond? They are nothing to Living Tribunal twenty three years later.

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Utrigita
this depends on which LT are we talking the LT from the secret wars ore the LT that we all know today it makes a difference, if its the good old times then yes beyonder would probably win, today I think it will be different as LT's powers has changed and growed from that time, and a lot of things has changed in marvel.

By the way where did the hoster said this was retcon we where discussing
No, you know why, because the Living Tribunal was never retconned.
Never, he is as powerful now as he was 30 years ago.

It's like we in todays issue: X, find out that the Living Tribunal can destroy the omniverse, and then say: Living Tribunal before issue: X

It don't work that way.

qqqqqqq
beyonder too powerful

Hercules
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
No, you know why, because the Living Tribunal was never retconned.
Never, he is as powerful now as he was 30 years ago.

It's like we in todays issue: X, find out that the Living Tribunal can destroy the omniverse, and then say: Living Tribunal before issue: X

It don't work that way.

QFT, LT was the same in 84-85 as he is now, Beyonder was over him back then.

All the talk of Retcon is moot if were talking pre retcon Beyonder.

Supreme being
Originally posted by Utrigita
this depends on which LT are we talking the LT from the secret wars ore the LT that we all know today it makes a difference, if its the good old times then yes beyonder would probably win, today I think it will be different as LT's powers has changed and growed from that time, and a lot of things has changed in marvel.

By the way where did the hoster said this was retcon we where discussing

Doesn't matter how powerful LT gets he will never be as powerful as pre recton beyonder therefore he loses.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
No, you know why, because the Living Tribunal was never retconned.
Never, he is as powerful now as he was 30 years ago.

It's like we in todays issue: X, find out that the Living Tribunal can destroy the omniverse, and then say: Living Tribunal before issue: X

It don't work that way.

No he wasn't but a characters power can grow ore dwindel, without a retcon few people seems to realise that. Like this for instance in Secret Wars II beyonder was beyond the marvel multiverse, multiverse then later there was suddenly a omniverse all governed by TOAA, TOAA began with a multiverse and suddenly got a omniverse to play with, but do you see him get retcon no, but his power just grow exponentially, the same with LT in Secret Wars II he was limited to a multiverse, but in the retcon of the brothers suddenly he is playing with two megaverses, so you can say that LT got a bigger spectra of power.

See it like this I begin with a small town and then suddenly I got a hole city to play with, now my power has grown because I have a larger area to exercise my power over.

And again the LT we saw against the beyonder did we know his function no, do we today doubt that he would be capable of erasing multiversal death I for one doesn't.

guy222
Originally posted by Supreme being
Doesn't matter how powerful LT gets he will never be as powerful as pre recton beyonder therefore he loses.

Don't live in the past. Beyonder ain't **** to LT now. This is '07. Granted he was made like that, hence the retcon and no one can differ. Tell Shooter etc to come back and make his sorry *** number one. It won't happen. They had their chance in '84-85.

guy222
Originally posted by Utrigita
No he wasn't but a characters power can grow ore dwindel, without a retcon few people seems to realise that. Like this for instance in Secret Wars II beyonder was beyond the marvel multiverse, multiverse then later there was suddenly a omniverse all governed by TOAA, TOAA began with a multiverse and suddenly got a omniverse to play with, but do you see him get retcon no, but his power just grow exponentially, the same with LT in Secret Wars II he was limited to a multiverse, but in the retcon of the brothers suddenly he is playing with two megaverses, so you can say that LT got a bigger spectra of power.

See it like this I begin with a small town and then suddenly I got a hole city to play with, now my power has grown because I have a larger area to exercise my power over.

And again the LT we saw against the beyonder did we know his function no, do we today doubt that he would be capable of erasing multiversal death I for one doesn't.

My young friend. Death never dies. He struggles with Eternity forever. Galactus/Eternity/Death are related

juggernaut66666
Beyonder.

guy222
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Beyonder.

I knew u say that.

Utrigita
Originally posted by guy222
My young friend. Death never dies. He struggles with Eternity forever. Galactus/Eternity/Death are related

I know, but what I am pointing out that today year 2007 there is TWO above M-LT THOTU and TOAA. Period

guy222
Originally posted by Utrigita
I know, but what I am pointing out that today year 2007 there is TWO above M-LT THOTU and TOAA. Period

smile

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Utrigita
I know, but what I am pointing out that today year 2007 there is TWO above M-LT THOTU and TOAA. Period
So TOAA and the power of TOAA is above the LT?

Utrigita
are you going to argue other vise ??? are you going to say that TOAA is below LT and HOTU when clearly Thanos speculat that he was manipulated by a force much more powerful then HOTU?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So TOAA and the power of TOAA is above the LT?

Yeah . . . thats a well known fact . . . in Marvel TOAA is above everybody

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