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And why would anyone be a fan of these guys?

When Sam L came into arrest the Chancellor, I'd say that has to be the
worst 4 on 1 battle in galactic history. Sith or not, there's no excuse for such poor saber skills. Palps just thrusts forward and what it's name just takes it like a frightened deer.

Yes, I know the movie needed to keep moving, but I think a pregnant Padme would've put up a better saber fight.

Based on the fact that all she did when strangled by her husband was say "No, please stop"? Not to mention how she so easily gave up the will to live just because her boyfriend dumped her...

Yeah, Padme's a real fighter.

Sarcasm, know you not, Mr Dodo.

Obviously I do, considering the last line of my previous post...

But you only know your own. If I said Mother Theresa could've knocked Mike Tyson out (referring to the fact that he hasn't won many fights lately) I would not expect you to take such statement literally.

But I thought Mother Theresa was dead...?

I give up. I'm going back to Mustafar.

Hoorah.

seems this thread is more about sarcasm than about the mace vs. palp fight.........

Style trumps substance for secondary characters in Star Wars.

...unfortunately

i would have liked to see them last for a little while.
i think the scene should have played out with palps
zapping the lot of them with branching force lightning.
why you ask? because it would have given the cinematic
opportunity for palps to fight them one at a time, as they
one by one recooperated from the blast.

anyway, yeah. its cool that palps outclassed 3 out of 4,
but by the way they went out like bitches, the scene didnt seem
to emphasise palps' skill so much as it emphasised the jedi's lack of.

oh well.

Yep I agree for 3 Jedi Masters to get wiped out in 3/4 second was a bit unreal for my tastes, not to mention them all standing there clumped together at the door, not the best defense strategy.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
not to mention them all standing there clumped together at the door, not the best defense strategy.

exactly. it made them look like bumbling idiots.

I like your sig, Cas!!!!!

It was just to show how powerful Palpatine really was i guess. I dont see it as lame, but then i dont let it bother me - i just enjoyed the scene

It's one of those film making decisions. The conceptual point of the scene was to show that Palps was pretty damn hard, to whit that he takes out 3 of 4 Jedi Masters in a fight.

Now, the scene did accomplish that. To many tastes- and that includes mine, and it seems most here- it was done in too brief a way, making the whole experience look shallow.

But as a filmmaker, GL has a different view and often strips these things down to bare essentials in favour of the bits he sees as vital with the main characters.

I think it all feeds back into there being too much plot in the PT.

i agree - lol, i always agree with your views

I'm glad my point was appreciated (except for dodo).

yeah the jedi went out like *****'s but i guess gl did need to speed up the sceen, if the fight were the way we wanted it, the sceen would be as long as obi vs. anakin.

Originally posted by jeremiahbllfrg
I'm glad my point was appreciated (except for dodo).

did it occur to you that dodo was being sarcastic and didnt actually think you were weighing the jedi's skills with those of padme?

Ju-on: The internet grudge..

OMG!!!!, net punch-ons!, call the cus's!, all of them.

they were extras

It was a terribly choreographed scene, but I don't think it was meant to make the Jedi Masters look crappy. It was made to make Sidious look really powerful.

lowrider370<----I like your username.

What do you drive, ese?

I doubt a 15 year old would have a decent car.

I concur with the assumption about showing how Strong sideous really was. (I'm smart, i said big words). But I think he could of dragged the seen on a little bit longer. In the second movie GL was making a point in the geonosis jedi vs. droid fight, when he showed the jedi get their asses kicked. He coud have chosen to make the fight last three or four minutes but didn't. He dragged it out for another ten minutes at least. He could have done the same thing in the 3rd movie. It would not have needed to be some long ass thirty minutes fight where he killed each guy one by one. but they could have all charged him at once or something. Then GL would have been able to show off Palps moves. It actuaully would have worked towards Gl's advantage. Because if the fight was longer palpatine would have had more time to pull off some really cool stuff. I was pretty disappointed really. But the movie itself was great

I think that one of the reasons he picked those Jedi was because all the other highly skilled Jedi were either dead or they were of some where else. I think that if he were to pick a group, to arrest a sith lord would be Obi-Wan(on utapau unfortuatly), Anakin(not trustworthy), Qui-Gon(deseased), and Yoda(on Kashykk). Sassiae Tin, from what I remember is a good piolot and could have been used on the battlefeids, he should have had Plo Koon instead. I thought that the other Jedi should have more screen time and their deaths were really quick. I think to tell you the truth, did it because of time constraints.

So the intention seems to be clear. Maybe the Jedi underestimated the Chancellor, but the first 2 "Master" died without even blocking his attack. Maybe the first one didn't want to fight and instead talk about everything and the second one joined him. Kit Fisto was even smart enough to put up his cover for like 2 seconds.

I was really disappointed but okay, at least the end-fight was amazing.

Agen Kolar(?) turned around to look at Palpatine when he was stabbed.

The Hell was so interesting behind him that he had to divert attention away from the evil Sith?

Perhaps that was an textbook example of the dangers of spinning? Like (obi1 in ep1)

Or perhaps he saw something curious?

Somebody probably shouted "STEVE!". Knowing full well his name wasn't Steve, he looked anyway.

D'yall think Windu coulda arrested Palpatine if it was Anakin, Obiwan, and Yoda who assisted him? I personally think he would shit his pants upon seein' those four.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's one of those film making decisions. The conceptual point of the scene was to show that Palps was pretty damn hard, to whit that he takes out 3 of 4 Jedi Masters in a fight.

Now, the scene did accomplish that. To many tastes- and that includes mine, and it seems most here- it was done in too brief a way, making the whole experience look shallow.

But as a filmmaker, GL has a different view and often strips these things down to bare essentials in favour of the bits he sees as vital with the main characters.

I think it all feeds back into there being too much plot in the PT.

I perfer my views of Lucas just being lazy

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
D'yall think Windu coulda arrested Palpatine if it was Anakin, Obiwan, and Yoda who assisted him? I personally think he would shit his pants upon seein' those four.

I definetly agree with you. The four of them would have been a much better challenge to Palpatine. But hey! That's not how Lucas invisioned it. So only in the expanded universe world. It would work if they came out with a revenge of the sith:infinities.

they shoulda brought one of those busty twilek jedi babes to sweet talk him into arrest...lol

Well, let's look at this for a moment:

Agen Kolar's death: Can't blame him. Pretty hard to dodge a very strong and maybe even unexpected STAB thrusted at you by a very, very quick Sith lord, don't you think?

That random loser's death: I forgot how he died

Kit Fisto's death: Now with this guy, I agree. He stood there for like seven seconds watching his allies being slaughtered, then gets killed.

It's easy, the dark side clouded their judgement.

And Kit Fisto fought pretty well, but the sith was better. I actually liked the way Dooku fought against Obi-Wan and Anakin, because he knocked one down, then quickly picked up Obi-Wan and threw him away, then continued to fight Anakin. Great move.

Now 4-to-1 is pretty good odds, but in the movies, how often have we seen 4 bad guys go up against 1 good guy? And how many times does the good guy win? How about all the time!

We think we know why, because the bad guys are stupid and can't shoot straight or the ninja's can't use a sword or karate-chop. But actually, most 4-1 fights, it's one-on-one, while the other 3 bad guys just stand around waiting their turn, leaning on their shovels and looking at their watches!

Thanks to home video we have the benefit of instant replay, and now we can break down the jedi-sith battle as if we were NFL linemen breaking down film on Monday afternoon. But in real time, as it happened on screen, Mace's posse's slaughter was still pretty shocking.

Oh sure, while Palpatine was slicing the Agen and Kit, Mace should have been slicing away at Paplatine's knees or back. But then we wouldn't have a story... we're all just monday-morning quarterbacking.

I like Chinabing's description...

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
lowrider370<----I like your username.

What do you drive, ese?
WOW! a Mexican gangster, that likes SW... thats a first.

Agen Kolar's death was understandable with the quick thrust and all, but he had been FACING AWAY from Palpatine. WHY again was he doing that?

Saesse Tiin's death was reasonable too. Kolar just got pwnd and he barely had time to accomodate to the situation.

Kit Fisto's was alright, he lasted about 8 seconds, we even saw a few twirls and spins.

But MACE! He had ample time to slice out Palpatine's knees or something. But no, the Token Black Guy stood there lauging as his posse was shredded.......dumbass.

what we need to focus on here is palps lightsaber notice how he looks as though he has never fought with one before he actually sort of reminds me of my little sister when we went to a small pitch and putt golf club needless to say we were removed after 20 mins after we failed to pull her putter out of the water

yes the fact that maces posse of masters got wiped out by palps swinging his lightsaber about like a lasso is a very big mistake from sir lucas but when you think about it he had a hell of a lot to cram into this film so theres no surprise he couldn't give everything his individual care and attention

but seriously what a shit fight

would have been better if they were using sabers i had built

it was all screwed up in the editing....Palps actually draws back his saber ...that's like "...Hello fool! I'm up inta stabbing your a$$!"

...and y'know, that would've worked in the movie if Nick Gillard hadn't gone to all of the trouble of showing how quick Jedi reflexes are when they are saber fighting...

I mean...four Jedi Masters!?! Four sabers already lit and prepared and not one puts a simple blocking maneuver?

I know Palps is the empowered Sith Lord and the motivation is to show how powerful he actually is...but either show it in the fighting or edit it so that everyone understands it without having it be questioned....that's what good filmaking is...you understand the what and why something happens in a scene...

so fans are left with...the Jedi suck at fighting (not true) more than Palps is a powerful Sith... even Dooku showed finesse and flair and was able to take on Yoda himself without breaking a sweat so we know that Palps should be better than him...

ah well....bye

Well they did the best that they could, considering 'ol GL.

It was originally going to have lots of exciting stuff done by the stunt doubles with the digital head replacements, and only have palps for the close ups (like the Dooku fight in the beginning).

Sam Jackson was gonna do more than Ian, but still have some sick moves done by the stunt double.

If you watch the dvd, on they day that they went to shoot it, GL decided he wanted many more closeups in the fight, not just when they paused, or moved in, but during all the strikes as well.

You can see nic argue with him, and he is upset that they won't do it with the swordfighters who rehersed it.(not angry, but he was upset.)

They had to work everything out on the set, (I think in like 2 or 3 days), and teach Ian and Sam a bunch of moves, so they made the moves easier and not as cool looking as they probably had been originally designed.

It would have been interesting to see though, perhaps he would have killed Agen at first, shot some lightning to drive them into the next hall way, then had a quick kill of Master Tinn, when they get into the main office, then had Kit and Mace both take him on, .. who knows?

Then have him decapitate Kit Fisto, and play out the scene as it was.

(should have had Anakin duel mace, even if just to "disarm" him, as it could have been a great scene, show anakin's skill and arrogance as he takes on Mace. Still end the same with Palps shocking him to death, and have that be out of Anakin's control.)


But, for what they had to work with, I think it turned out pretty well.

Whoever insults Saesee or Kit or Mace (stuff Agen Kolar) I will personaly duel on the remains of the Sepratist Base on Mustafar and send them flying to the winds of Mygeeto.

Originally posted by Master Saesee
Whoever insults Saesee or Kit or Mace (stuff Agen Kolar) I will personaly duel on the remains of the Sepratist Base on Mustafar and send them flying to the winds of Mygeeto. No more than one bottle of Tylenol a day now ya geek.

Oi you GEEK with your stupid glowing arm I was JOKING

I am the only real Sith Lord here, If a bit undercover at the moment....

In time you will call me master.

Originally posted by Master Saesee
Oi you GEEK with your stupid glowing arm I was JOKING I was too. Though apparently, blatant hypocrisy means nothing nowadays.

I am not calling Sesse Master he's GAYgiljotiini

Originally posted by Master Saesee
Oi you GEEK with your stupid glowing arm I was JOKING

Somebody clearly has to learn to control his temper here...

And his desire to revive a dead thread.

Originally posted by ShadowKing
...but either show it in the fighting or edit it so that everyone understands it without having it be questioned....that's what good filmaking is...you understand the what and why something happens in a scene...


Dude, everything in your post rocks. It basically sums up a lot of the sloppy filmaking decisions made by George in the PT trilogy...but warning ya...a lot a folks here would say that's blashphemy.

Word!

Everybody wants to make Star Wars better than ole' GL can.

Well, when it's your multi-billion dollar franchise, you can change it. Until then, I'm sticking with Lucas.

The three were inreality some of the finest swordsmen ever in the history of the Jedi Order (according to the ROTS novelization). Lucas was being a jerk to save money on film and made all three seem extremely weak to get the fight over with.

In the novel, Saesee was the first to die. He was distracted because Palpatine said to him "Master Tiin, you're the telapathic. What am I thinking right now?" Saesee pauses for a second, then gets stabbed because Palpatine brings out his lightsaber. Agen is like "It doesnt-" gets stabbed while just staring at the red glowing stick "hurt". Kit's like "OMG WTF?!" and then he and Mace fight Palpatine, he gets killed after a good fight, the end u know the rest

I suppose a realistic explanation would be they were in shock after learning Palpatine was the Sith Lord..I don't think they expected him to attack.. or something. Only Mace was ready for him.

That would have been a good explanation. It'd show more depth in his otherwise whiny character.

yeah, the novel is really good

The novel is only good in the fact that it provides more details about stuff..other than that I thought it was junk. I didn't like the writing style; Luceno or Zahn would've been a great choice.