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well hell cry

Isn't 15 tenth or eleventh grade?

could have been left back a year...or two.

i turned 15 in 9th grade...so i guess its quite possible

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
well hell cry

He deserved it. The police made the right choice. Their lives were in danger. The kid ended his own life the minute he brought that gun into school..not the cops.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Isn't 15 tenth or eleventh grade?
If it took me 4 years to get out of 8th grade, I'd be suicidal, too.

KidRock, the article didn't say that the kid died. Come to think of it, they never specified his injuries at all.

Originally posted by botankus
If it took me 4 years to get out of 8th grade, I'd be suicidal, too.

KidRock, the article didn't say that the kid died. Come to think of it, they never specified his injuries at all.

Then he deserved any injuries he got.

wow.

the kid 'deserved' nothing you ridiculous troll.
granted the cops reacted appropriately to protect themselves and
the kids, but with that said you really are a lowlife.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
well hell cry


That's what happens when you threaten the lives of cops and innocent people, this should surprise no one, the cops reacted perfectly.

The kid shouldn't have brought a gun to school...

A lesson to be learned...

-AC

Good job for the cops, but I would also like to know where the kid got the gun and what was going on in his life and in his head to make him think that this was at all a good idea.

It's easy for people to react as kid rock did and say that he deserved it, but why did this happen? Maybe he was a psycho little shit? Then again maybe he was molested by someone he trusted for so long that he just wanted to end it and make sure that everyone knew that he was suffering.

It's horrible that it happened. The cops did a great job making sure no one other than the perpetrator of the got hurt, but I'll reserve comment on the kid till we know more about what happened and why it happened.

Of course, now the press and the community will just play the blame game, so I doubt we'll every really know what was going on.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A lesson to be learned...

-AC

What lesson is that?

Originally posted by PVS
the kid 'deserved' nothing you ridiculous troll.
granted the cops reacted appropriately to protect themselves and
the kids, but with that said you really are a lowlife.

He deserved it all and more for threatening the life of the cops and other kids. Dumbass kids these days.


Originally posted by KharmaDog
Good job for the cops, but I would also like to know where the kid got the gun and what was going on in his life and in his head to make him think that this was at all a good idea.

It's easy for people to react as kid rock did and say that he deserved it, but why did this happen? Maybe he was a psycho little shit? Then again maybe he was molested by someone he trusted for so long that he just wanted to end it and make sure that everyone knew that he was suffering.

It's horrible that it happened. The cops did a great job making sure no one other than the perpetrator of the got hurt, but I'll reserve comment on the kid till we know more about what happened and why it happened.

Of course, now the press and the community will just play the blame game, so I doubt we'll every really know what was going on.

"its all the parents fault.."

The kids in 8th grade..time to buck up and take some responsability for himself.

Originally posted by KidRock
Dumbass kids these days.

So speaketh the expert, obviosly speaking from personal knowledge and experience.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
So speaketh the expert, obviosly speaking from personal knowledge and experience.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/moresmilies/thumbs_up.gif

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/moresmilies/toot.gif

Originally posted by PVS
could have been left back a year...or two.

i turned 15 in 9th grade...so i guess its quite possible

Why were you held back PVS?

Actually, most people in the US are 14 when they start 9th grade (first year of high school). I turned 15 towards the end of 9th grade myself, and I was never held back.

Originally posted by Lana
Actually, most people in the US are 14 when they start 9th grade (first year of high school). I turned 15 towards the end of 9th grade myself, and I was never held back.

Oh, ours is slightly different.

7th grade is 11-12, and so on up to 10th being the front end of 15.

Originally posted by Lana
Actually, most people in the US are 14 when they start 9th grade (first year of high school). I turned 15 towards the end of 9th grade myself, and I was never held back.

Oh I see. I thought old PVS was saying he was on the Short Bus and that didn't scan for me, because he seems pretty intelligent sometimes! j/k

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Oh I see. I thought old PVS was saying he was on the Short Bus and that didn't scan for me, because he seems pretty intelligent sometimes! j/k

PVS generally always seems intelligent, sometimes it's just masked by his obvious anger issues.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
PVS generally always seems intelligent, sometimes it's just masked by his obvious anger issues.

Indeed it is bless him!

something about a certain member celebrating the death of a kid with no knowledge of any circumstance...

errr the "well hell" was about the entire situation not the kid getting shot people

In other words its a sad state affairs in the world today.

Originally posted by PVS
something about a certain member celebrating the death of a kid with no knowledge of any circumstance.

rather disgusting I agree.


Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
errr the "well hell" was about the entire situation not the kid getting shot people

In other words its a sad state affairs in the world today.

I think PVS was referring to Kid's comment.

I was referring to the person or persons that quoted me.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
I was referring to the person or persons that quoted me.

Sorry, My bad!

Originally posted by PVS
something about a certain member celebrating the death of a kid with no knowledge of any circumstance...

You mean KR?

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Good job for the cops, but I would also like to know where the kid got the gun and what was going on in his life and in his head to make him think that this was at all a good idea.


It's quite easy to get a gun in Florida

Originally posted by KharmaDog
PVS generally always seems intelligent, sometimes it's just masked by his obvious anger issues.

LOL that pic of his reminds me of ICP...............PVS doesn't have an anger issue you just have a distorted view of his perception and how he expresses himself

Anyway this kid obviously needed some help sucks that it came down to this.

Originally posted by soleran30
LOL that pic of his reminds me of ICP...............PVS doesn't have an anger issue you just have a distorted view of his perception and how he expresses himself

It was just a joke.

Basically, kid earned the bullet.

Also, I'm a full year younger than everyone else in my grade, which is 10th, but I'm only 15 (turned 15 October). Everyone else is already 16.

Why don't the police have non leathal weapons??? Like the bean bag shotguns, and tazers?? Why is leathal force always the first option???

The fact that they didn't even comment if the gun was real was another comical farce...

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Not really a brilliant comment.

I don't know! Saved the whole legal process! and there for some tax moniiies!... Yay! democracy!

Lets hope he never makes a mistake that earns him instant death..

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Not really a brilliant comment.

have to consider the source

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
By KELLI KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer
10 minutes ago



LONGWOOD, Fla. - A suicidal eighth grader who pulled a handgun in class and forced another child into a closet was shot by a sheriff's SWAT team member Friday when he later threatened deputies, Seminole County officials said.


Sheriff Don Eslinger said the 15-year-old boy brought the gun to Milwee Middle School in his backpack. Eslinger said two students saw it and one persuaded the other to report it, causing a scuffle.

The alleged gunman told one of the students to go into a closet, ran from the classroom and "traveled with this firearm throughout the campus," Eslinger said. Deputies eventually isolated him in a restroom, and the school was evacuated.

"At one time he held the gun to his neck. As the deputies attempted to establish dialogue, he raised the firearm and lethal force was used by the sheriff's office," Eslinger said.

The boy was taken to the hospital. His condition was unknown.

"He was suicidal," Eslinger said. "During this standoff, and during the chase, the student said he was going to kill himself or die."

No one else was injured. Officials with the sheriff's office said they had not confirmed whether the gun the boy had was real or a toy.

Classes were canceled for the rest of the day, and frantic parents arrived to pick up their children.

"When I saw the news, I just couldn't believe this was my daughter's school. I came right away," said Anil Santos, whose daughter, Aleister, is in eighth grade.

Sarah Tivy, 12, said some students were frightened, but she appeared calm.

"I just figured that if someone is going to bring a gun to school, then they need to be taken out of school," she said.


I was wondering where Whob's been.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
It was just a joke.

Oh was it

Fixed.

wait im slow on things, why did the SWAT shoot him when he raised the gun to his neck?

Originally posted by DrDoom101
wait im slow on things, why did the SWAT shoot him when he raised the gun to his neck?

Apparently they shot him when he raised the gun at them, alsthough there are conflicting reports it seems.

What has been reported now is that the gun was just a BB gun that had been mocked up to look as real as possible.

Damn, that's an unfortunate chain of events

I wonder if the people who thought that, "he got what he deserved" still think that way after this information has been made known?

Still..seems to me that aload of trigger happy hicks got there wish...

Originally posted by KharmaDog
I wonder if the people who thought that, "he got what he deserved" still think that way after this information has been made known?

People always make uneducated assumptions.

Originally posted by KidRock
He deserved it. The police made the right choice. Their lives were in danger. The kid ended his own life the minute he brought that gun into school..not the cops.

maybe not deserved, but after Columbine, anyone stupid enough to bring a weapon to school knows bad shit'll happen if they get caught out, just like this kid. not the cops fault

Originally posted by Lana
The kid shouldn't have brought a gun to school... The kid shouldn't have had access to a gun at all...

Go second amendment!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The kid shouldn't have had access to a gun at all...

Go second amendment!

Jeez, chill out.

Why should a few deaths spoil the good gun owners' enjoyment?

See the whole picture, man.

Originally posted by tabby999
maybe not deserved, but after Columbine, anyone stupid enough to bring a weapon to school knows bad shit'll happen if they get caught out, just like this kid. not the cops fault

Precisely.

I wouldn't say "deserve" but he didn't exactly try not to get shot did he?

-AC

again... why didn't the police try using NON-leathal force??? perhaps tazers would of brought the kid down? or shooting gas grenades?? Or wounding the kid?

He was probably so scared of the police with guns that he didn't think to give up..

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
have to consider the source That's a larf, coming from you.

Originally posted by tabby999
maybe not deserved, but after Columbine, anyone stupid enough to bring a weapon to school knows bad shit'll happen if they get caught out, just like this kid. not the cops fault

Any kind of weapon, at least one that fires projectiles. And even if it was mocked up to look as real as possible, that still means they though it was a real gun. It makes no difference.

Let's stop making excuses because he was a kid. He wouldn't have used non-lethal means, anything he did would have quite possibly and likely have been lethal. He had a gun and the Police, not wanting to die, acted correctly.

It's unfortunate, but is there a way of INSTANT (literally) incapacitation that doesn't involve killing?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's unfortunate, but is there a way of INSTANT (literally) incapacitation that doesn't involve killing?

-AC

Yes... tazers, high powered one will drop you easily for 5mins...
and the bean bag shot guns would drop you long enough for the police to act... Concidering he was cornered.. Without a hostage... and the only damage he could do was to himself... Don't you think at least trying to stun him would of been better then shooting him???

Killing anyone should be avoided.. Most people in that situation are desperate.. And with a airgun, whats he gonner do??? he was probably in a state of shock...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/14/teen.shot/index.html

Originally posted by Syren
Damn, that's an unfortunate chain of events

Exactly my point. Glad someone else saw it. And to you that are spouting off "If the kid brought a gun to school he deserved it!" in such a quick and easy way, I wonder if your opinion would be the same if this had been a family member of yours? I think not.

And Snoops I was just returning the favor you've paid me many a time yourself.

He made his move. He recieved the consequences. Sad, but it's what happened.

It's very unfortunate what happened to the kid but what were the cops supposed to do? It's all very well suggesting alternatives after the moment, but IN it I'm pretty sure they didn't want to do a practical test on whether the gun was real or not.

"Don't SHOOT! It might be a fake!"

*Kid shoots and kills a cop*

"Oops, real gun."

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's very unfortunate what happened to the kid but what were the cops supposed to do? It's all very well suggesting alternatives after the moment, but IN it I'm pretty sure they didn't want to do a practical test on whether the gun was real or not.

"Don't SHOOT! It might be a fake!"

*Kid shoots and kills a cop*

"Oops, real gun."

-AC

Erm... I think...

"Nation said Ralph Penley was "angry" because he had spoken to police before his son was shot and told them Christopher did not have a real gun. Christopher's younger brother told school officials the same thing, Nation said. "

Cops were told he didn't have a real gun... Cops have body armor and riot shields... I think they could of aforded to take the chance..
Or should the police open fire when ever they "feel" like there in danger?

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss

Or should the police open fire when ever they "feel" like there in danger?

I believe that's how it works.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Erm... I think...

"Nation said Ralph Penley was "angry" because he had spoken to police before his son was shot and told them Christopher did not have a real gun. Christopher's younger brother told school officials the same thing, Nation said. "

Cops were told he didn't have a real gun... Cops have body armor and riot shields... I think they could of aforded to take the chance..
Or should the police open fire when ever they "feel" like there in danger?

Do you wait for people to stab you before you run or do you run if you think you're about to be stabbed? Because if you just FEEL you might be stabbed, why run right?

-AC

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Exactly my point. Glad someone else saw it. And to you that are spouting off "If the kid brought a gun to school he deserved it!" in such a quick and easy way, I wonder if your opinion would be the same if this had been a family member of yours? I think not.

And Snoops I was just returning the favor you've paid me many a time yourself.

Pointing out you random idiocy?

Or should the police open fire when ever they "feel" like there in danger?

Uh... yes.

The boy is brain-dead now.

OK at NO time did I say the police did the wrong thing. Once again the bulk of you missed my point. My point is that I'm appalled at how some of you people were so quick to post "the kid got what he deserved!!!!" etc, without voicing a comment at the horror of the entire situation for ALL parties involved FIRST. In other words, or simpler words, some of you are heartless individuals, whom I sincerely hope have some great measure of misfortune befall you so that others can pass judgement without a shred of common decency or sympathy. Shame on you.


Hopefully that explanation was easy enough for those whom Im addressing to understand. I dont have time to draw you a pretty picture.

this seems to be the problem with our generation... I say gun safty issues should be handled in Kindergarden... I mean, after all, 1st graders HAVE been known to shoot each other... IN CLASS.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
again... why didn't the police try using NON-leathal force???

Because they wanted to ensure their safetey and that of all the other kids. When someone points a gun at a cop the cop wants to put the person down as quicky as possible. The best way to do this is with a gun

I wonder what these people think when they bring a Gun to school.Last I heard ,High School doesnt have any show and tell.

With the way students are being educated, Im surprised we dont.

Originally posted by RedAlertv2
Because they wanted to ensure their safetey and that of all the other kids. When someone points a gun at a cop the cop wants to put the person down as quicky as possible. The best way to do this is with a gun

Fight fire with fire? Sounds like the most logical way to extinguish a taught situation.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
OK at NO time did I say the police did the wrong thing. Once again the bulk of you missed my point. My point is that I'm appalled at how some of you people were so quick to post "the kid got what he deserved!!!!" etc, without voicing a comment at the horror of the entire situation for ALL parties involved FIRST. In other words, or simpler words, some of you are heartless individuals, whom I sincerely hope have some great measure of misfortune befall you so that others can pass judgement without a shred of common decency or sympathy. Shame on you.


Hopefully that explanation was easy enough for those whom Im addressing to understand. I dont have time to draw you a pretty picture. I believe we said the same thing about you when we learned how you parented your kids. Well, if they exist.

And when did I claim to have a heart?

Originally posted by Syren
Fight fire with fire? Sounds like the most logical way to extinguish a taught situation.

No, not in the least, but it was the easiest thing to do. What makes us so sure that paticular officer was informed of it's fake-status? Or the team dealing with him?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Do you wait for people to stab you before you run or do you run if you think you're about to be stabbed? Because if you just FEEL you might be stabbed, why run right?

-AC

If I got told the person had a fake knife by no less then 3 people, and no one else was in danger(everyone had left), and I was wearing body armour(swat have alot of this) I think I might take the chance to try to save the prep...

Originally posted by RedAlertv2
Because they wanted to ensure their safetey and that of all the other kids. When someone points a gun at a cop the cop wants to put the person down as quicky as possible. The best way to do this is with a gun

Erm... Everyone had left.. It was just the kid and the cops... They got told he didn't have a real gun by 3 differnet people, Concidering the amount of protection they have and the position the kid was in. They could of tried anything... ANYTHING... and could of got a better outcome..

Originally posted by §cooter
I believe we said the same thing about you when we learned how you parented your kids. Well, if they exist.

And when did I claim to have a heart?

No, not in the least, but it was the easiest thing to do. What makes us so sure that paticular officer was informed of it's fake-status? Or the team dealing with him?

Not an unbelievably awesome comeback, Bardock, actually utterly obnoxious. I'm insulted for her and I don't even have kids. To hear that shit from a 16 year old little boy is terrible.

Matt, you're well out of line with that comment. I really don't know why people humour you.

As for your question, how are we sure he wasn't informed? It works both ways.

Originally posted by Syren
Not an unbelievably awesome comeback, Bardock, actually utterly obnoxious. I'm insulted for her and I don't even have kids.

I am not sure if you know what he was refering to, but what JP told us she did to her kids was worse than 1984 ...so at least to me that was hilarious and a rather reasonable comeback.



Hmm where I come from when you kill yourself you usually die....but it might be different where that kid comes from.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I was wondering where Whob's been.

Oh, poor whob....he didn't deserve to die that way.


By the way, it's two days now since JP posted that, two things I am interested in does "lethal force was used by the sheriff's office" mean he was killed, or just badly wounded..and second, was the gun real now or just a toy gun?


Oh yes, and if he actually wanted to die, he should be happy now. He got what he wanted.

Just the fact that he said 'if they exist'. Out of line.

Originally posted by Syren
Not an unbelievably awesome comeback, Bardock, actually utterly obnoxious. I'm insulted for her and I don't even have kids. To hear that shit from a 16 year old little boy is terrible.

Matt, you're well out of line with that comment. I really don't know why people humour you.

As for your question, how are we sure he wasn't informed? It works both ways. Do you even know what you're talking about Kerry? (In reference to everything to the last bit of your post)

Great response. Why wouldn't I? All I know is that you've questioned her having children, in an antagonistic manner.

Originally posted by Syren
Just the fact that he said 'if they exist'. Out of line.
Hm let me just think a second.




Ouch..that's pretty bad. But let's wait till we judge:



Hmm, yes pretty bad...humorous at the same time...an appropriate response I'd say.

None of them would actually win the Mother Theresa Niceness Contest....so I don't see the problem.

Originally posted by Syren
Great response. Why wouldn't I? All I know is that you've questioned her having children, in an antagonistic manner. People here have lied about all kinds of things. You don't know what I'm referring too, how she claims to have "parented" her children, or even my correct age.

I thought you'd turned 16 recently... my mistake. Not that it's even relevant, are you younger than 16? Makes it even worse IMO.

I don't need to know exactly what you're referring to, I still think that you were out of line in questioning whether her children exist. So what if she parents her children in a way you don't agree with. You're not a parent, you have no room to judge.

Originally posted by Syren
I thought you'd turned 16 recently... my mistake. Not that it's even relevant, are you younger than 16? Makes it even worse IMO.

I don't need to know exactly what you're referring to, I still think that you were out of line in questioning whether her children exist. So what if she parents her children in a way you don't agree with. You're not a parent, you have no room to judge. Nope, but at the time my parent was standing right behind me and saying a variety of various, not nice things about her parenting skills.

How old are you? You're about... 23. How did you grow up? How am I growing up? We're kids, ahve been kids, we know what shit parenting is or not, because we'd be on the recieving end of it.

Fair enough. But that still gives you no right to insult her. Perhaps if you had said 'my parent said the following...' about her parenting skills? I'm sure she would take their comments into consideration well before she ever listened to you.

I don't mean to insult you Matt, but you are young. Using such a comment in a derogatory fashion was out of line and that's what I'm referring to.

Originally posted by Syren
I thought you'd turned 16 recently... my mistake. Not that it's even relevant, are you younger than 16? Makes it even worse IMO.

I don't need to know exactly what you're referring to, I still think that you were out of line in questioning whether her children exist. So what if she parents her children in a way you don't agree with. You're not a parent, you have no room to judge.



Hmm most people might think that telling someone that they are heartless and wishing that something bad might happen to them is not very nice either...is there some sort of reason why you only see the one side of this arguement Syren?

She didn't specifically call him heartless, it was directed at anyone who immediately stated that the kid who got shot deserved it without looking at all of the facts.

She also didn't wish anything bad on anyone, she said that if those who are making such rash comments were to experience something similar in their lives, maybe they would be able to see things from a different perspective. I happen to think she's right, I am being objective and from your comment above it appears you're the one who is only reading certain parts of the discussion. Which is even worse than only seeing things from one side.

Originally posted by Syren
Fair enough. But that still gives you no right to insult her. Perhaps if you had said 'my parent said the following...' about her parenting skills? I'm sure she would take their comments into consideration well before she ever listened to you.

I don't mean to insult you Matt, but you are young. Using such a comment in a derogatory fashion was out of line and that's what I'm referring to.

How old are you? You're about... 23. How did you grow up? How am I growing up? We're kids, ahve been kids, we know what shit parenting is or not, because we'd be on the recieving end of it.

I added that ^

The moment she said I was heartless (Which I'll admit, I can be at times), and wanted something horrible to happen to me, she opened up seasonal hunting grounds. And I doubt it. People of all ages, even Shellie commented about it/has commented about it in the past. And, if she really wants his comments... I'll try and get them.

great measure of misfortune befall you so that others can pass judgement without a shred of common decency or sympathy

Originally posted by Syren
She didn't specifically call him heartless, it was directed at anyone who immediately stated that the kid who got shot deserved it without looking at all of the facts.

She also didn't wish anything bad on anyone, she said that if those who are making such rash comments were to experience something similar in their lives, maybe they would be able to see things from a different perspective. I happen to think she's right, I am being objective and from your comment above it appears you're the one who is only reading certain parts of the discussion. Which is even worse than only seeing things from one side.

She called everyone that said that heartless...he did say it...so she insulted 5 people in this thread....great.

You are a very subjective reader I believe...her statement is not that she thinks if something bad might happen to them they might think different...read it again.

I am not sure what you are reffering to, what parts have I left out? Do you even know aboot the discussion we had with her aboot Parenting? How can you judge that without knowing what has happened. It was a reference to an earlier thread, and I am sure JP will understand what he meant. Oh and how come that nowadays only parents have a right to talk aboot and judge parenting?

Found it:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=382409&highlight=Teens+arrested

If this was about a man or a woman and people said they deserved what they got, people wouldn't be half as quick to shout out "You're heartless." The kid made a bad call and just like anyone else he got what circumstance deserved to deliver to him. It's not heartless to say that, it's just true. It's unfortunate it resulted in lethal consequence but these things happen.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
If I got told the person had a fake knife by no less then 3 people, and no one else was in danger(everyone had left), and I was wearing body armour(swat have alot of this) I think I might take the chance to try to save the prep

But minus all this info you wouldn't wait around to be stabbed, or in this case, shot, would you? No.

So yes, the idea is that they preserve their lives when they feel threatened. That's the general idea. If you don't like it, stop making guns legal. Don't give your Police forces a lethal weapon and moan when they use it.

-AC

Oh I jsut seen what PVS posted, alright. so it's not a real gun. But I wasn't argueing that anyways.

Originally posted by Bardock42
She called everyone that said that heartless...he did say it...so she insulted 5 people in this thread....great.

You are a very subjective reader I believe...her statement is not that she thinks if something bad might happen to them they might think different...read it again.

I am not sure what you are reffering to, what parts have I left out? Do you even know aboot the discussion we had with her aboot Parenting? How can you judge that without knowing what has happened. It was a reference to an earlier thread, and I am sure JP will understand what he meant. Oh and how come that nowadays only parents have a right to talk aboot and judge parenting?

She was right to insult those people who said it, they are heartless.

So she wished something bad on all the people who said the kid deserved it? So what? They said the kid deserved to be shot. If that's not harsh enough for JP {or anyone} to retaliate in such a way then I don't know what is. I still agree with her, even if she commented in an overly aggressive manner.

You didn't leave any specific statements out, but you are saying that JP is the one to blame because she commented the way she did. You seem to be missing the reasons why she said it. Because some people here said such an awful thing about the kid who got shot, without considering all the facts. Obviously this touched a nerve with JP and she responded the way she did... which I can understand.

What I don't understand is why her kids and parenting skills were brought into the discussion. She felt for the kid who got shot, she blasted those who thought he deserved it, and she was blasted in return for the way she parents? That doesn't add up, IMO. Not only were her parenting skills brought into the spotlight, Matt actually had the audacity to question her kids' existence. This discussion has sweet FA to do with JP, her kids or her parenting skills and the reason I defended her is because I don't think her comments warranted such a nasty response from him. The reference to another thread should not have been made in defence of comments in this thread.

But I do agree that children should be able to judge on parenting skills, although their opinions will never be as substantial as those of a parent.

Whoa whoa whoa there.

Originally posted by Syren
She was right to insult those people who said it, they are heartless.

So she wished something bad on all the people who said the kid deserved it? So what? They said the kid deserved to be shot. If that's not harsh enough for JP {or anyone} to retaliate in such a way then I don't know what is. I still agree with her, even if she commented in an overly aggressive manner.

The kid did something and as a consequence, "deserved" something else. That's what happened. You bring a gun to school in today's climate and you deserve all you get. It IS unfortunate that it ended how it did, absolutely. I wouldn't wish that death on ANYONE regardless of age, but I think you are forgetting that in the frantic mind of a cop, it was the kid or one of them. I'd personally choose me, yes that's right. If a kid aimed at me with a gun and I didn't know it was fake or not, I'd shoot him. Damn right. I'm not gonna risk death just so people can go "Aww he didn't shoot the kid."

He did something and the police did something in return. Why does admitting that mean that you deserve something bad to happen? How despicable do you wanna get? If it wasn't a kid there'd be nowhere near as much hoopla.

Originally posted by Syren
She felt for the kid who got shot, she blasted those who thought he deserved it, and she was blasted in return for the way she parents? That doesn't add up, IMO.

You're right, it doesn't. Her parenting has nothing to do with this. On the other hand, you know what DOES have something to do with it? The kid's age and actions. He acted in a way that would have got ANYBODY shot.

I don't believe anyone would have deserved death, but I do believe anyone acting in a way that might result in death as consequence of the POLICE feeling threatened, deserve WHATEVER is coming to them. Be it a beanbag to the face or a bullet. You act in a way that invites bad results, then expect those bad results.

-AC

What I don't understand is why her kids and parenting skills were brought into the discussion. She felt for the kid who got shot, she blasted those who thought he deserved it, and she was blasted in return for the way she parents? That doesn't add up, IMO. Not only were her parenting skills brought into the spotlight, Matt actually had the audacity to question her kids' existence. This discussion has sweet FA to do with JP, her kids or her parenting skills and the reason I defended her is because I don't think her comments warranted such a nasty response from him. The reference to another thread should not have been made in defence of comments in this thread.


Audacity? She's the one that stated I was heartless. She has the audacity to make that judgement?

Originally posted by Syren
She was right to insult those people who said it, they are heartless.

So she wished something bad on all the people who said the kid deserved it? So what? They said the kid deserved to be shot. If that's not harsh enough for JP {or anyone} to retaliate in such a way then I don't know what is. I still agree with her, even if she commented in an overly aggressive manner.

You didn't leave any specific statements out, but you are saying that JP is the one to blame because she commented the way she did. You seem to be missing the reasons why she said it. Because some people here said such an awful thing about the kid who got shot, without considering all the facts. Obviously this touched a nerve with JP and she responded the way she did... which I can understand.

What I don't understand is why her kids and parenting skills were brought into the discussion. She felt for the kid who got shot, she blasted those who thought he deserved it, and she was blasted in return for the way she parents? That doesn't add up, IMO. Not only were her parenting skills brought into the spotlight, Matt actually had the audacity to question her kids' existence. This discussion has sweet FA to do with JP, her kids or her parenting skills and the reason I defended her is because I don't think her comments warranted such a nasty response from him. The reference to another thread should not have been made in defence of comments in this thread.

But I do agree that children should be able to judge on parenting skills, although their opinions will never be as substantial as those of a parent.

In your opinion. In Scooters she is Heartless for monitoring her kids 24/7.

No, I am saying that since JP, saying that those people who said that are heartless, why shouldn't Scooter be allowed to answer in a similar fashion?

Maybe they were brought in because JP touched a nerve with Scooter? Or they were brought in cause it seems that JP can be rather heartless at times too. There are enough reasons, and they were only brought in for one sentence. Her attacking the people that stated that the kid deserved to be shot was much longer.

I don't see why they shouldn't. There are some lame ass parents while there are some really smart none parents...jt having kids doesn't make you a parenting expert. You might have an advantage but nothing more.

I think it's way more of an overkill to say "You all deserve something horrible."

"For what?"

"For not reading the thread properly."

Bit of an out there judgement call if you ask me. If you don't read the thread then you're careless, it doesn't mean you deserve to be shot.

Bottom line: The kid took a gun to school. What do you expect?

-AC

Whoopsi............I hit a few nerves did I?

Kerrie is exactly right. It does offend my sense of common decency to see the bloodlust that was distributed in this thread towards another human being. I've seen it time and time again from you people. Some of you act like a bunch of barbaric animals when it comes to the suffering of others. Which is why I responded the way that I did. And Kerrie, they know full well I have children, they just resort to pulling their disdain for the way I parent my kids out as a defense for whenever I've made them feel bad about their behavior.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Whoa whoa whoa there.



The kid did something and as a consequence, "deserved" something else. That's what happened. You bring a gun to school in today's climate and you deserve all you get. It IS unfortunate that it ended how it did, absolutely. I wouldn't wish that death on ANYONE regardless of age, but I think you are forgetting that in the frantic mind of a cop, it was the kid or one of them. I'd personally choose me, yes that's right. If a kid aimed at me with a gun and I didn't know it was fake or not, I'd shoot him. Damn right. I'm not gonna risk death just so people can go "Aww he didn't shoot the kid."


-AC

Finally ONLY after I posted do the underlined statement make it into your argument. Had the people in question bothered to add that simple sentence that showed they had some deceny, Id have never posted what I did.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Whoopsi............I hit a few nerves did I?

Kerrie is exactly right. It does offend my sense of common decency to see the bloodlust that was distributed in this thread towards another human being. I've seen it time and time again from you people. Some of you act like a bunch of barbaric animals when it comes to the suffering of others. Which is why I responded the way that I did. And Kerrie, they know full well I have children, they just resort to pulling their disdain for the way I parent my kids out as a defense for whenever I've made them feel bad about their behavior. Didn't you feel bad about how your son turned out? The one you claimed you were afraid to let in your own house Zing! Yahtzee!

For the record, JP, I never once referred to your parenting. I don't believe it's at all relevant so I wouldn't bring it, or your kids, into this discussion.

However, I don't think it's bloodlust to say he deserved what he got. Most people who said it did so on the premise that he brought a gun to school and the cops didn't know if they could have been killed or not.

I'm curious as to how having this mentality means that they deserve dreadful occurances. If someone walks out into the road without looking and gets hit by a car, they deserve it, it's stupid and idiotic. I don't deserve to be shot for making that comment.

-AC

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Whoopsi............I hit a few nerves did I?

Kerrie is exactly right. It does offend my sense of common decency to see the bloodlust that was distributed in this thread towards another human being. I've seen it time and time again from you people. Some of you act like a bunch of barbaric animals when it comes to the suffering of others. Which is why I responded the way that I did. And Kerrie, they know full well I have children, they just resort to pulling their disdain for the way I parent my kids out as a defense for whenever I've made them feel bad about their behavior.



Finally ONLY after I posted do the underlined statement make it into your argument. Had the people in question bothered to add that simple sentence that showed they had some deceny, Id have never posted what I did.

What suffering though? A stupid kid with a gun that claimed he want to die in the first plavce, gut shot pointing a gun at a Police Officer.

IOn the one hand the kid didn't even suffer, he got what he wanted. On teh other his behaviour asked for that to happen. If I had any compassion at all, then surely not for the dumbass kid but for the cop who was forced to shoot the idiot.

Yes, I know AC, and thank you for managing to remain on the topic at hand, something which Snoopbert cant seem to do. He's bound and determined to rehash the parenting argument.
You are missing the point that I meant regarding the bloodlust statement. I myself felt the police acted in the way that they had to. They had no choice. What so offended me, was the lack of seeing that the entire situation was such a tragic waste while they were chanting "the kid got what he deserved" that ticked me off.

Yep Kerrie, that'd pretty much be my argument there.

Originally posted by Bardock42
On the one hand the kid didn't even suffer, he got what he wanted. On teh other his behaviour asked for that to happen. If I had any compassion at all, then surely not for the dumbass kid but for the cop who was forced to shoot the idiot.

100% correct and precise.

That cop has to live forever with the fact that he killed a kid just because some idiot brought a gun to school. Real or fake, I wouldn't be one sticking around to find out.

I didn't hear the kid shouting out that it was fake. This is child worship, plain and simple.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Yes, I know AC, and thank you for managing to remain on the topic at hand, something which Snoopbert cant seem to do. He's bound and determined to rehash the parenting argument.
You are missing the point that I meant regarding the bloodlust statement. I myself felt the police acted in the way that they had to. They had no choice. What so offended me, was the lack of seeing that the entire situation was such a tragic waste while they were chanting "the kid got what he deserved" that ticked me off.

I also hate it when people come in on the last page and think they can comment. However, it is a possibility that they entered this thread, read the story and still thought he deserved what he got. Which he did didn't he? To be fair and realistic.

If it was an older man I seriously doubt there'd be any problem.

-AC

Originally posted by Syren
This sort of comment is exactly the reason I defended JP in the first place. You're quite obviously incapable of holding a mature discussion without resorting to personal insults as a defence mechanism for your warped opinions.

Quite sad.

Nice job. You've managed to make a personal insult, but mask it with slightly larger words.

Originally posted by Bardock42
C'mon that was not necessary. That'S just to hurt her, now. Of course it wasn't nessecary. Was it nessecary we posted about 2 pages worth of fluff based on a single sentence? Nope. Was her comments about wishing bad things upon all of those that say he deserved what he got nessecary?

Hmm for some reason AC manages to stay on topic while all hell brakes lose...now that'S a remarkable skill.

Originally posted by §cooter
Of course it wasn't nessecary. Was it nessecary we posted about 2 pages worth of fluff based on a single sentence? Nope.
That's true too I guess.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm for some reason AC manages to stay on topic while all hell brakes lose...now that'S a remarkable skill. Indeed. Quite a skill

What can I say, I'm the man. All semi-jokes aside though, Scooter, you seemingly have a long standing grudge with JP. I don't know why or what it's about but I'd prefer you kept this on topic, because it's a good topic.

There's no need to get personal. I don't want to hear excuses, if you dislike her then PM her. Don't trash the threads. Same applies to everyone else.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What can I say, I'm the man. All semi-jokes aside though, Scooter, you seemingly have a long standing grudge with JP. I don't know why or what it's about but I'd prefer you kept this on topic, because it's a good topic.

There's no need to get personal. I don't want to hear excuses, if you dislike her then PM her. Don't trash the threads. Same applies to everyone else.

-AC Alright, I'll respect your wish.... mainly because you were civil about asking it.

Well then, back to child worshipping. I think what AC said is indeed right. there is only so much fuss aboot it because it was a kid. And that's not justified. Why should it be any different idf it was a 30 year old...it would still be the same thing, jsut with much less proble for the ones involved afterwards.

If you value life you should value it equally through all ages at mourn it's loss equally so.

Life was lost either way. Nothing is saying he wouldn't have died at 20 of an OD or plane crash. He acted idiotically and lost his life, that's the price you pay. He obviously didn't value his life much, why should you?

-AC

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess

AC, in all honesty you are probably right, had it been an adult I don't think my reaction would have been so strong. I see such a ridiculous waste when someone so young has their life cut short for any reason, even if it was their own doing.

25 year olds still have a lot of life to live too. And when does it change? When is it acceptable that someone gets shot, and when is it not.

I understand that you as a mother probably have strong feelings to it, but just the way it was portrayed it sounds like the Kid, was very much aware that this would indeed happen.

Dude what IS it with you? This isnt about "child worshipping". This is about an individual who has now had what could have been a full and promising life cut short by their own doing. THAT IS SAD. Hello? Do you not SEE that? And yes it would have been sad had the guy been 30. But at the age of 30, you've had a bit more time to grow, experience life and learn to not make such stupid decisions as this kid did.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Dude what IS it with you? This isnt about "child worshipping". This is about an individual who has now had what could have been a full and promising life cut short by their own doing. THAT IS SAD. Hello? Do you not SEE that?
I personally don't.

Well that'd be my point Bardock. I don't know if you guys are just really, REALLY desensitized or what, but this not seeing the "sadness" of this situation is callous in my opinion.

Of course it's child worshipping, you said yourself that it's "worse" because he was young.

Your rationale is flawed. "This is about an individual who has now had what could have been a full and promising life cut short by their own doing."

Exactly. First, it was their own doing, he's an idiot and he clearly didn't value his life much to throw it away like that. I won't mourn him because he doesn't deserve it. He didn't give a shit, why should we? Secondly, "COULD have been a full and promising life...". Anyone born has that possibility and there are possibilities to die around every corner. I could go out today and get run over.

Someone who dies in an accident is fair enough if they had absolutely no way of preventing it. I don't mourn the loss but I can see why it would be sad. A guy more or less asking for it at 15 brought it all on himself.

He brought it on HIMSELF. Hello? Do you not SEE that? The fact that he wasn't 30 plus is clouding your judgement. The fact that he was infact 15, is why you're taking this so seriously. He was asking for it.

-AC

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Well that'd be my point Bardock. I don't know if you guys are just really, REALLY desensitized or what, but this not seeing the "sadness" of this situation is callous in my opinion.

You have to understand that compassion is not an absolute concept.

I don't feel any sadness for that boy at all...he's an idiot, he deserved to die, he wanted to die.

I don't feel any sadness for the officer either....but just cause I don't know him, I don't care for him, it's not my problem. He, in the end, is the more tragic figure of the two.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

He brought it on HIMSELF. Hello? Do you not SEE that? The fact that he wasn't 30 plus is clouding your judgement. The fact that he was infact 15, is why you're taking this so seriously. He was asking for it.

-AC

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
I myself felt the police acted in the way that they had to. They had no choice.

Exactly.

Desensitisation has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of realising what happened. A guy who wanted to die, didn't care for his own life or others around him, put himself in a situation where he could have been killed at his own free will and he got his wish granted. If he didn't REALLY want to die then he should have thought about that.

There's no defense of this kid.

-AC

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess

Yes, so why feel sad for the kid? It was inevitable.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


There's no defense of this kid.

-AC

OK what part of my posts are you NOT reading? I havent defended the kid anywhere?

Precisely Bardock.

Why feel sad? You're admitting he did it all himself. Why feel sorry for someone who asked for death and got it?

Try feeling sorry for someone who didn't want death and got it anyway.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
OK what part of my posts are you NOT reading? I havent defended the kid anywhere?

I was speaking generally there.

-AC

AC I tend to feel sorry for both of those sets of individuals.

Why though? It's illogical.

Human wants death, human acts idioticially and receives death. What's to be sad about?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why though? It's illogical.

Human wants death, human acts idioticially and receives death. What's to be sad about?

-AC

Holy cow really? I think this may be a no win argument for both of us. I see sadness in the loss of human life. No matter who it may be. You dont. Thats fine. Just 2 different points of view that are miles and miles apart I guess. Wont be a resolution to this.

My only problem was the way Matt insulted JP as a way of defending his opinion, I do think that you all have valid comments and I agree that the kid was stupid, irresponsible and that the outcome, although unfortunate, could have been a lot worse.

My initial response to this thread was that it was an unfortunate chain of events.

The reason I added to that was because I felt Matt was out of line in unsulting JP personally.

JP, you dislike silly remarks made to you, afford others the same respect.

Answer the question.

-AC

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Holy cow really? I think this may be a no win argument for both of us. I see sadness in the loss of human life. No matter who it may be. You dont. Thats fine. Just 2 different points of view that are miles and miles apart I guess. Wont be a resolution to this.

Well. Mostly. Of course that kid probably didn't really want to die, but I think someone that doesn't want to die should maybe, just maybe behave a little different.

My previous post was prior to you adding the rest.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Holy cow really? I think this may be a no win argument for both of us. I see sadness in the loss of human life. No matter who it may be. You dont. Thats fine. Just 2 different points of view that are miles and miles apart I guess. Wont be a resolution to this.

Fair enough.

-AC

Kerrie, it was a refreshing change of pace for someone else to see what was behind that line of defense. AC did as well.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Kerrie, it was a refreshing change of pace for someone else to see what was behind that line of defense. AC did as well.

The thing though is that he didn't only insult you, he also added a valid point. You all jsut chose to ignore it. I guess that'S your line of defense then.

Scooter has a long running grudge against JP. JP and I have never personally got on but if you're going to choose to lace your posts with blatant personal insults, then you shouldn't really complain if your valid point is overlooked, and that applies to everyone.

Either way, I shut that whole deal down. Let's not raise it again.

-AC

Bardock, who pissed in your Post Toasties this morning? You seem to be inclined to continue that particular argument. It's not gonna happen, give it up man.

AC what the heck IS that in your sig? A cell?

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Bardock, who pissed in your Post Toasties this morning? You seem to be inclined to continue that particular argument. It's not gonna happen, give it up man.

You are funny....really...first Syren and you decide that the arguement is now over, that you were right...scooter is an idiot, but if someone replies to this silly agreement you pretend that they are the one keeping the arguement alive. Funny, I am laughing.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Scooter has a long running grudge against JP. JP and I have never personally got on but if you're going to choose to lace your posts with blatant personal insults, then you shouldn't really complain if your valid point is overlooked, and that applies to everyone.

Either way, I shut that whole deal down. Let's not raise it again.

-AC

Alright that's my last post towards that, but Scooter wasn't the one to start the insults. Just for the record, it just got out of hand, but no one of those two is to blame particularly.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
AC what the heck IS that in your sig? A cell? Wondering the same thing

I don't know to be honest. I'm not too familiar with that particular variation of tentacled micro-organism.

It's from an album artwork.

-AC

Ok, I was just kind of wondering what that icky thing was.

I suppose that's a better view.

-AC

Your micro-organism killed the topic

Well now thats going to bug me for awhile. I may have to go find out what that thing is. Thanks for the bigger picture. And I must say it's refreshing to have debated with you in a thread without it leading to what has been the usual conclusion. Cool beans. I'm off now.

I think you'll find all the bitching killed the topic .

-AC

My bad

I've always come from the point, "You are what you are what you eat"

If your parents are crappy and don't care you will Generaly follow suit...

When I take a look at the new generation in england founded on the "I don't care" principle its not hard to see where all the hoodlems come from...

Parents have a responablity to give there kids the right up bringing, as much as they do to feed the child.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I've always come from the point, "You are what you are what you eat"

If your parents are crappy and don't care you will Generaly follow suit...

When I take a look at the new generation in england founded on the "I don't care" principle its not hard to see where all the hoodlems come from...

Parents have a responablity to give there kids the right up bringing, as much as they do to feed the child. We went over this before, didn't we?

Nar... i didn't bother to read your petty squabbles... but I felt like adding my 2 pence...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Nar... i didn't bother to read your petty squabbles... but I felt like adding my 2 pence... From a previous thread.

2 pence noted. Thanks for stopping by

Originally posted by Syren
Fight fire with fire? Sounds like the most logical way to extinguish a taught situation.

Unless you're a fireman.


I think you mean 'taut', unless you're referring to the fact it was in a school...

*waits for family to sue police department, gun maker, any other company they can get money from*