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DarkCrawler
Agent Zero- http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/agentzero.htm

Blitzkrieg- http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/b/blitzkrieg.htm

Karnak- http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/k/karnak.htm

Thing- http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/t/thing.htm

illadelph12
Vertigo- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertig...arvel_Comics%29

Living Monolith- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Monolith

Gamora- http://marvelite.prohosting.com/sur...les/gamora.html -

Karate Kid- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karate_Kid_%28comics%29

1 hour of prep, generic empty room, teams don't kill each other beforehand.

Location: A forest! A redwood forest. Lots and lots of really big trees, plus other smaller plants and such. Seeing far in any direction is difficult. The forest stretches for what seems like forever in all directions. The entire thing is eerily deprived of wildlife. Teams start 1,000 yards apart, and know the general direction of the other team's location.

Let's get it on.

Good luck DC.

You too.

This should be a good match.

Your not suppose to post in here unless your asking a question or voting. It helps if other members don't clutter the thread with comments.

May I ask a question or vote?

yes...but wait on the voting till Ill defends or later in the week

I thought all first rounds are going up?

its just me vs long pig and DC vs Ill....


now unless you have a question about the battle stop spamming here people, ask questions in the General Discussion thread....

so Im bored.....just wanted to get an explaination on something

how is it that your going to handle being so close to vertigo without any of your members being dizzy at the very least?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
so Im bored.....just wanted to get an explaination on something

how is it that your going to handle being so close to vertigo without any of your members being dizzy at the very least?

she can't effect them at 1000 yards

Originally posted by Blair Wind
so Im bored.....just wanted to get an explaination on something

how is it that your going to handle being so close to vertigo without any of your members being dizzy at the very least?

Karnak and Agent Zero could handle it. Blitzkrieg and Thing most likely couldn't. Karnak has complete control of his body, and since Vertigo uses sonar pulse, Zero's vibranium armor will absorb the brunt of attack and lessens the effect. Vertigo of course wouldn't use his sonar pulse all the time - it would take out her teammates too.

Would Karate kid be able to locate/pinch a nerve point on things rocky body ?....

Interesting scenario, but inconsequentional.

Truth be told, Gamora, alone, could kill your entire team without a large degree of exertion.

Her teamates, which include Karate Kid, simply make it overkill.

But I'll humor you.

With the hour of prep my team devises this plan:

At the onset of battle Monolith emits a heat blast which sets a large portion of the surrounding forest ablaze, serving two puposes:

1) Blanketing the forest battlefield in thick smoke. This inhibits the visibility of all combatants on the battlefield, mine included, but Gamora, Karate Kid, and Vertigo do not need to see to be effective (however, Thing, Agent Zero, and Blitzkrieg, particularly, do).

2) Limitting the amount of directions you can attack from, and rendering your ability to flank me disabled..

Simultaneously, Vertigo emits her pulse in the general direction of your forces (being as we are 1,000 yards apart and know which direction the enemy is). Vertigo's pulse is emitted in a 180 degree wave, and she can emit it so that it will not effect her own allies (which I can display if needed). Being as every member of your team is humanoid and has functioning mechanoreceptors:and auditory nodes (basically, none of them are deaf), they'll all be effected. The effect of this pulse is severe disorientation, and possible loss of conciousness due to prolonged exposure.

When you add these two factors together, you have a battlefield with minimal, if any, visibility, as well as a hypersonic pulse disrupting the senses and ability of all of your teammates, leaving them in a highly debilitated and vulnerable state..

A prelude to a kill.

Next, Vertigo stays with Living Monolith (for protectiion) advance towards your position out in the open under a cover of flames and smoke, blasting and engulfing the forest around him as he moves along. Karate Kid and Gamora ascend up into the trees, using them as cover, and advancing on your position through the shadows.

Now, Gamora is the deadliest assassin in the Galaxy.

Literally.

She was trained (and artificially enhanced) by Thanos to be the ultimate killing machine, to be used as the ultimate weapon against The Magus (Adam Warlock). She's singlehandedly taken down entire squadrons of The Magus's Black Knight Special Forces. Agent Zero, your best and most versitile asset in this battle, is severely outclassed. Even with his vibranium armor and adamantium bullets, he's outclassed.

And that's only Gamora.

Karate Kid is, well, I'll get to him in a second.

Anyway; under the cover of an advancing wall of flames, heat, smoke, and a disorienting pulse, Gamora and Karate Kid move in to engage your team. The only member of your team that can fly is Blitzkrieg, and that's through concentration and creating a "lightning bridge" under himself. With the effects of Vertigo upon him, he's not going to be able to do that. As a matter of fact, it's going to be hard for anyone on your team to mount much of an offensive.

Blitzkrieg can't use his lightning abilities without a target in line of site, as well as his senses being disoriented by Vertigo.

Agent Zero's weapons won't be of much use in the smoke and heat. His thermal scopes will be disrupted due to all of the heat being generated by Living Monolith and the flames, and the smoke won't give him a clear shot .

Karnak is highly skilled, but not highly durable, nor can he fly. Karate Kid has him bested in all regards. Also, Karnak can control his bodily funcions (pain receptors, respitory, cardiovascular, etc), but he can not simply turn off his cerebellum so that it will not register the pulse. He will be disoriented, but perhaps not to the degree Thing and Blitzkrieg will.

Thing's a brick, and I never liked him.

As Thing would say "It's clobberin' time".

With no functioning visibility and left in a disoriented and debilitated state by Vertigo, Gamora and Karate Kid will make quick work of your team.

Swiftly, and silently, Gamora drops from the trees and KO.s Thing with an expertly precise strike to a nerve cluster in the base of Thing's skull, her artificially enhanced strength and training enabling her to strike true through Ben's rocky hide (and she's dropped the chump before). She then returns to the trees for herself and Karate Kid to get the drop on their next target.

Next, Gamora and Karate Kid silently close in on Blitzkrieg. Gamora jumps out of the tree brandishing her sword and delivers a death blow on the disabled hero, who is in no condition to put up much of a fight.

Now, Karnak and A-X are left. A-X's suit absorbs impacts and his powers absorb the kinesis of impacts and redirect it into physical strength, but it does not protect him from heat. He also doesn't have a healing factor, he's simply long lived and has great stamina {a la Captain America). In fact, he has an anti-healing factor that kills beings that have them.

Karnak is basically Karate Kid, minus flight.

This could get interesting.

Luckily I have a 10 foot walking organic granite Egyptian that can emit wave after wave of heat blasts and erect a protective field about himself.

Gamora and Karate Kid, within a shroud of smoke, engage Karnak in a h2h fight that makes the cast of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon look like amateurs, while Monolith incinerates everything in sight to "smoke out" Agent X.

At this point I have 3 options:

1) Have Monolith incinerate everything and everyone in sight with his heat blasts as Karate Kid, Gamora, and Verigo take to the air..

2) Take out Karnak (either H2H or via blast from Monolith while he's engaged in combat) and then allow Gamora and Karate Kid, or Gamora alone, to eat Agent X alive.

3) Gang up on Agent X (which more than likely would result in Vertigo's death).

Either of these three choices inevitably result in my victory.

Originally posted by grey fox
Would Karate kid be able to locate/pinch a nerve point on things rocky body ?....

No need. I have Gamora.

But he could.

hm DC's strategy was good, till Ill just annihilated it. Vote for Ill for now.

I don't think anyone should vote till the week is up, it's kinda pointless if you do it now.

BAHHH....someone already voted against me....


but I get your point....

this isn't a vote, but at this point, ill has the better arguement, though dc still has a good chance

I thought DC was outmatched here. Illa put up a good rebuttal; however I dont think Gamora is THAT godly of a fighter. Id say Blitz would last the longest.


anyway, I dont think anyone thats in the tourney should vote or be counted.

Uhhh...I don't even think anyone should even be commenting on how well the other person's arguements are. It's just cluttering up the thread, if you have a specific comment or question ask. Input on how the matches is going should be at the end.

This question is directed to Ill -
How does vertigo emit the sonic pulse without affecteing her team mates? Does she need to contstantly stay in front since its a 180 degree arc?

To be honest, Marvel never quantified whether it's line of site or omnidirectional pulse, but on numerous occasions she's used her ability to subdue opponents (X-Men) while they were engaged with her teammates in her line of fire and they were not effected. She's also taken down large groups of opponents (most recently the Avengers).

I'll provide scans ASAP.

I know which scene your talking about where the avengers are hung naked in savage land?

Yeah, but that's not all. I'm looking for my X-Men comics when they went to the Savage Land and battled the mutates and Vertigo was able to down an X-Man without affecting her teammate.

This is the downside to collecting mostly GL and Punisher comics.

Question : With all these fires your setting and smoke thats pouring out shouldn't karate kid be dead by now ? The average human cant stand in a smoke filled room for a few minutes without succumbing , KK should be dead by now

Also smoky the bear would have kicked you ass by now illadeph......

Originally posted by grey fox
Question : With all these fires your setting and smoke thats pouring out shouldn't karate kid be dead by now ? The average human cant stand in a smoke filled room for a few minutes without succumbing , KK should be dead by now

Also smoky the bear would have kicked you ass by now illadeph......
KK is vulnerable to gases, he can hold his breath for up to 10 minutes, though so he may be able to run through it. But, fighting while holding your breath ain't happening.

Once he takes in a breath, he's probably K.O'd. Not a good strategy at all

Ill, are you sure she's capable of both 180 degree attack and at a range of 1000 yards simultaneously. Is the effect less the further they are from her?

Edit: Also in that New Avengers the group she's affecting is relatively bunched up... so doesn't really equate to omnidirectional.

Originally posted by grey fox
Question : With all these fires your setting and smoke thats pouring out shouldn't karate kid be dead by now ? The average human cant stand in a smoke filled room for a few minutes without succumbing , KK should be dead by now

Also smoky the bear would have kicked you ass by now illadeph......

Originally posted by long pig
KK is vulnerable to gases, he can hold his breath for up to 10 minutes, though so he may be able to run through it. But, fighting while holding your breath ain't happening.

Once he takes in a breath, he's probably K.O'd. Not a good strategy at all

KK has a Legion flight ring, is a peak human specimen, and he and Gamora are advanced of Monolith's position. If KK needs to fly up and take a gasp of fresh air, he's more than capable of doing so.

(Oh, and Long Pig, it's not going to work. I see what you're trying to do. I'll see you in round 2).

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Ill, are you sure she's capable of both 180 degree attack and at a range of 1000 yards simultaneously. Is the effect less the further they are from her?

Edit: Also in that New Avengers the group she's affecting is relatively bunched up... so doesn't really equate to omnidirectional.

I know, that's why I said:

Originally posted by illadelph12
To be honest, Marvel never quantified whether it's line of site or omnidirectional pulse, but on numerous occasions she's used her ability to subdue opponents (X-Men) while they were engaged with her teammates in her line of fire and they were not effected. She's also taken down large groups of opponents (most recently the Avengers).

I'll provide scans ASAP.

I'll provide scans soon.

Here's a scan of Vertigo downing Rogue as she tries to escape via flight with Sage. Vertigo is able to take her down at a relative distance (again, not quantified, but the depiction of Rogue and Sage as a distant silhouette makes it seem like they've travelled a good distance).

Also note Rogue is more durable than three of my opponent's teammates.

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/1624/hrsl4pg061xk.jpg

Here's Vertigo downing Wolverine, Ironman, Spiderman, Captain America, etc.

As X mentioned, they were bunched together.

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/3634/untitledscanned114sp.jpg

Originally posted by illadelph12
Here's Vertigo downing Wolverine, Ironman, Spiderman, Captain America, etc.

As X mentioned, they were bunched together.



Why in the hell is Captain America resisting it longest?

And please, if you still can, edit out the picture...the thread has been made unreadable by too large pics...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Why in the hell is Captain America resisting it longest?


all their powers ere nullified before Vertigo attacked... Stark's armour was shut down, Spidey's webs wouldn't even fire... so Cap would've been least disoriented by power loss (as he has no power)

i'm sure if they had there powers she wouldn't have been much of a problem

Nice retort DC.

But again, inconsequential.





Firstly:

This would not only give away your position, but also hinder your ability to fly, as this is the manner in which Blitzkrieg achieves flight.

Not the best of tactics.

Monolith could down Blitzkrieg, in his now apparent and given away position, with either a heat blast or a concussive force blast as Karate Kid takes Vertigo airborne (KKs flight ring affords him flight in excess of the velocity of your 140 mph winds) to rain her pulse down on your now obvious position. Not to mention the fact that such extreme forces of wind in a dense forest (that is on fire) would kick up immense amounts of dust, dirt, loose leaves, weak branches, topple weak and dying trees, and send airborne and other folliage in the vicinity, as well as hinder your own teammates mobility, save Thing, for none of them are affixed to the ground or weigh a significant amount of pounds to not be affected by gail force winds. You've not only just made visibility worse, on top of that, you've hindered Agent X(your best asset)'s visibilty with all of the debris flying through the air, as well as the force of the wind effecting the accuracy of his shots by altering the trajectory of his rounds, not to mention the electromagnetic field Blitzkrieg would need to create to generate such a vortex would be drawing in anything metalic in his proximity, also throwing off the trajectory of Agent X's bullets (and effecting his mobility within a metal suit of armor).

Secondly, Gamora was artificially enhanced in strength, speed, endurance, agility, etc. by Thanos to a signifigant degree to make her the ultimate living weapon, and she was trained to sneak up and assassinate telepaths, and The Magus (Adam Warlock), who has an affinity for souls. Agent X is not the Head Mutant In Charge of the stealth game. Not by a long shot. And he's also no where near as agile, trained, or adept as Gamora, technological assistance included.

Also, she's taken your boy Thing, who's mobility is not up to par, out in one move on a previous occasion, so deja vu is the phrase of the day for the Blue Eyed Brooklynite.




Karnak is good, but Vertigo's pulse trained on him (now that Blitzkrieg's folly has given away your team's postion) will hinder his abilities, if not render him unconscious. Karnak can control his respitory system and his cardiovascular system, and he can control his tolerance for pain (as can KK), but he can not control his senses to the degree to shut off a portion of his cerrebelum and render his mechanoreceptors inoperative. He can't force himself to go deaf, and he can't turn off his inner ear or operate without his sense of balance.

Agent Zero is your best weapon, and he can be dealt with by Monolith. After dispatching Blitzkrieg (for making the mistake of giving away your position in the first place ), Monolith can just go apeshit and engulf the forest in wave after wave of heat blasts and incinerate everything in sight, including the incapacitated Karnak and Blitzkrieg, via Vertigo and

1)Gamora's blade.

2)KK's fists.

3)Falling redwood trees while they are disoriented and incapacitated by Vertigo.

Agent Zero won't be able to get a good shot with all of the heat, smoke, burning trees collapsing all about, wind swept tree branches, leaves, dirt, etc., as well as his air supply being constantly taken away in a suffocating blanket of fire and smoldering debris. Not to mention, blindly firing off rounds of ammo and corrosives in a burning forest full of large trees that can fall on you isn't the most intelligent thing to do. Do you know what happens when you super heat acid?

Couple that with the fact that Agent Zero must release his pent up kinetic energy in the form of the corrosive, the strength he gained from Thing punching him will dissipate shortly thereafter. He can't store it for extended periods of time, meaning he can't exponentially increase his base strength infinitely.

Gamora, KK, and Vertigo can take up a safe position via flight (Legion of Super Heroes Flight ring) and covered by the smoke, but A-X is grounded, blinded, and choking, up against an angry walking organic granite Egyptian statue in a smoldering inferno.

Agent X dies or is rendered unconscious via exfixiation, gasping for air in a smoke and dust filled forest, and being cooked alive in a metal suit of armor that conducts heat like an oven and causes him severe heatstroke.

He should have told the Weapon X program to give him a healing factor.

All he has is stamina and age retardation.

Case in point.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Why in the hell is Captain America resisting it longest?

And please, if you still can, edit out the picture...the thread has been made unreadable by too large pics...

Sorry about the size of the scans. It's too late for me to edit them (I'm at work). Maybe Digimark or another admin can.

Originally posted by illadelph12
not to mention the electromagnetic field Blitzkrieg would need to create to generate such a vortex would be drawing in anything metalic in his proximity, also throwing off the trajectory of Agent X's bullets (and effecting his mobility within a metal suit of armor).


This question is directed to iladeph .

If the electro magnetic field that Blitzkreig is creating draws anything in thats metal then shouldn't vertigo and karate kid be dead ?

Originally posted by grey fox
This question is directed to iladeph .

If the electro magnetic field that Blitzkreig is creating draws anything in thats metal then shouldn't vertigo and karate kid be dead ?

I don't understand your reasoning behing your question. Karate Kid and Vertigo are not made out of metal, and also are not metal clad (as Agent X is), and also are not in as close a proximity to Blitzkrieg as Agent X would be. Also, the battle takes place in a forest, so there will not be a lot of metallic debris flying around. A majority of the metal is on Blitzkrieg's end of the battlefield, and it's on Agent X's body.

Originally posted by Scoobless
all their powers ere nullified before Vertigo attacked... Stark's armour was shut down, Spidey's webs wouldn't even fire... so Cap would've been least disoriented by power loss (as he has no power)

i'm sure if they had there powers she wouldn't have been much of a problem

Not exactly. She's taken down people fully powered (i.e. Rogue above as displayed). It's not a matter of powers, as much a matter of anatomy.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I don't understand your reasoning behing your question. Karate Kid and Vertigo are not made out of metal, and also are not metal clad (as Agent X is), and also are not in as close a proximity to Blitzkrieg as Agent X would be. Also, the battle takes place in a forest, so there will not be a lot of metallic debris flying around. A majority of the metal is on Blitzkrieg's end of the battlefield, and it's on Agent X's body.

I assume that for the sonic pulse to be effective they would have to get close to Dc's team , the ring i believe is made of metal and KK/Vertigo can't fly

Splat.

Originally posted by grey fox
I assume that for the sonic pulse to be effective they would have to get close to Dc's team , the ring i believe is made of metal and KK/Vertigo can't fly

Splat.

Actually, no.

The rings are composed of Anti-Gravity Element Number-152 which was invented by Mon El and crafted by Brainiac. The effects of magnetism (or gravity) do not hinder the rings.

I vote for DC's team. Agent Zero could simply deploy independently from the rest of his team and take out one or two of the other team. I just don't see how a reduced team could then take out the rest of DC's team.

Also, regarding Agent X's stealth. His vibranium armor deads the sounds of his foot steps, as well as incoming sounds, so without sight, he's nearly useless. His vibranium armor doesn't account for the displacement of air and smoke he'd make as he moves. Gamora and Karate Kid are both trained to take out opponents using their other senses besides sight and sound, including touch.

Hey, I just found out I may have to go on a business trip for my job from Wednesday until the 26th for a conference, so I might have to drop out. I'll keep you guys informed.

The timing sucks serious balls.

My vote so far goes to Ill. His strategy is so far hands down the superior of the two.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Nice retort DC.

But again, inconsequential.





Firstly:

This would not only give away your position, but also hinder your ability to fly, as this is the manner in which Blitzkrieg achieves flight.

No, it wouldn't actually give away his position. Your guys wouldn't see anything when the smoke is directed against you.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Monolith could down Blitzkrieg, in his now apparent and given away position, with either a heat blast or a concussive force blast as Karate Kid takes Vertigo airborne (KKs flight ring affords him flight in excess of the velocity of your 140 mph winds) to rain her pulse down on your now obvious position.

What? Karate Kid can't even fly with 100 MPH...I think the top speed of the flight ring is like 90 MPH (And that's when Karate Kid focuses)...I'm not sure where you get that he can fly with 140...especially when he is carrying someone else with him...

And it's either easy for Blitkrieg to

A) Take out the sonic pulse by creating a shield of ionized air particles around him, or

B) Just shoot Vertigo and Karate Kid out of the sky.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Not to mention the fact that such extreme forces of wind in a dense forest (that is on fire) would kick up immense amounts of dust, dirt, loose leaves, weak branches, topple weak and dying trees, and send airborne and other folliage in the vicinity, as well as hinder your own teammates mobility, save Thing, for none of them are affixed to the ground or weigh a significant amount of pounds to not be affected by gail force winds. You've not only just made visibility worse, on top of that, you've hindered Agent X(your best asset)'s visibilty with all of the debris flying through the air, as well as the force of the wind effecting the accuracy of his shots by altering the trajectory of his rounds, not to mention the electromagnetic field Blitzkrieg would need to create to generate such a vortex would be drawing in anything metalic in his proximity, also throwing off the trajectory of Agent X's bullets (and effecting his mobility within a metal suit of armor).

I'm afraid that Blitkrieg can control his wind's intensity...he'll just make a wind that blows away the smoke...it doesn't have to be a tornado-like vortex...

Originally posted by illadelph12
Secondly, Gamora was artificially enhanced in strength, speed, endurance, agility, etc. by Thanos to a signifigant degree to make her the ultimate living weapon, and she was trained to sneak up and assassinate telepaths, and The Magus (Adam Warlock), who has an affinity for souls. Agent X is not the Head Mutant In Charge of the stealth game. Not by a long shot. And he's also no where near as agile, trained, or adept as Gamora, technological assistance included.

Agent Zero is not a telepath. And how will Gamora sneak up on him when she

A) Can't see him
B) Can't hear him
C) Can't smell him.

Unless Gamora has some Daredevil kind of radar sense or telepathy, he will not be aware of Agent Zero's presence. And will get an adamantium bullet at her head. And I remember that only weapon Gamora is carrying is her knife.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Also, she's taken your boy Thing, who's mobility is not up to par, out in one move on a previous occasion, so deja vu is the phrase of the day for the Blue Eyed Brooklynite.

So apparently she can cross the distance of 1000 yards in seconds and kill Thing? Even when she doesn't know where he is because of the smoke? When lightning and it's sounds is hitting her from everywhere, messing up her hearing? I doubt it.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Karnak is good, but Vertigo's pulse trained on him (now that Blitzkrieg's folly has given away your team's postion) will hinder his abilities, if not render him unconscious. Karnak can control his respitory system and his cardiovascular system, and he can control his tolerance for pain (as can KK), but he can not control his senses to the degree to shut off a portion of his cerrebelum and render his mechanoreceptors inoperative. He can't force himself to go deaf, and he can't turn off his inner ear or operate without his sense of balance.

Karnak has incredible willpower. Captain America was able to resist Vertigo's power for a while, and his willpower (and body control) is absolutely nothing compared to Karnak. Taken on account that Blitzkrieg can render attacks of Vertigo useless, that the effect is lessened by the distance it travels, or Karnak can simply clasp his hands in his hears to lessen the effect (Since it's sonic pulse). Also, Karnak's EXTREME concetration will also lessen the effect. Sure, his sense of balance is messed up, but with his extreme control of his bodily functions, and his extreme concetration, he can drive off the attack, like Captain America did for a while. Only that Karnak will drive it off completely.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Agent Zero is your best weapon, and he can be dealt with by Monolith. After dispatching Blitzkrieg (for making the mistake of giving away your position in the first place ), Monolith can just go apeshit and engulf the forest in wave after wave of heat blasts and incinerate everything in sight, including the incapacitated Karnak and Blitzkrieg, via Vertigo and

Blitzkrieg didn't reveal any positions, like I said earlier. He is smiply directing the smoke back, and smashing lightning everywhere- Your team has no ways of knowing where he is, especially when he can be on the move.

And Monolith can't do jack shit to Agent Zero. He can be happy if he even knows that he is at the opposing team. While Monolith makes lot of sound (which makes it easy for Zero to find his location), is slow and clumsy, Agent Zero is fast, nimble and quiet. If you are seriously trying to tell that Monolith has better chance of noting Agent Zero's presence in noisy forest full of trees then Sabretooth in small room with no noises, you are not very familiar with Monolith...And Monolith can't do much before he is killed by Zero. Vibranium can resist every heat wave that Monolith puts up.

Agent Zero will simply snuck up on him (shouldn't be hard) and shoot him in the head with adamantium bullets. Then disappear and assassinate Gamora. Or assassinate Gamora first and then Living Monolith - neither have any way of seeing, hearing or smelling his presence.

Originally posted by illadelph12
1)Gamora's blade.

2)KK's fists.

3)Falling redwood trees while they are disoriented and incapacitated by Vertigo.

1) Gamora is dead

2) Karate Kid is taken out by Blitzkrieg who takes out every attack made by Vertigo

3) Neither of them are disoriented, except Thing.


Originally posted by illadelph12
Agent Zero won't be able to get a good shot with all of the heat, smoke, burning trees collapsing all about, wind swept tree branches, leaves, dirt, etc., as well as his air supply being constantly taken away in a suffocating blanket of fire and smoldering debris. Not to mention, blindly firing off rounds of ammo and corrosives in a burning forest full of large trees that can fall on you isn't the most intelligent thing to do. Do you know what happens when you super heat acid?

No way Agent Zero is firing blindly. I assume that Monolith isn't just running around forest blindly (He wouldn't see anything himself from the smoke), but firing the heat somewhere. It's not hard to see where the heat is coming from, and follow it to center. Then he can either shoot Monolith or cut his throat with his adamantium knife.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Couple that with the fact that Agent Zero must release his pent up kinetic energy in the form of the corrosive, the strength he gained from Thing punching him will dissipate shortly thereafter. He can't store it for extended periods of time, meaning he can't exponentially increase his base strength infinitely.

And where you got that he can't store the energy? He is not Strong Guy. Also..."Zero is also able to channel absorbed energy into raw strength, allowing him to deliver blows ten times stronger than normal." SO, he is able to release it with punches too.


Originally posted by illadelph12
Gamora, KK, and Vertigo can take up a safe position via flight (Legion of Super Heroes Flight ring) and covered by the smoke, but A-X is grounded, blinded, and choking, up against an angry walking organic granite Egyptian statue in a smoldering inferno.

What makes you think that Zero is grounded and can't simply climb up to trees? That his mask wouldn't prevent him from chocking? That his visor wouldn't eliminate being blinded by the smoke?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Agent X dies or is rendered unconscious via exfixiation, gasping for air in a smoke and dust filled forest, and being cooked alive in a metal suit of armor that conducts heat like an oven and causes him severe heatstroke.

And what makes you think that Blitzkrieg can't just get himself in the air? While in the air, he spins all the particles around him in fast speeds, dissipating every wave of sonic (compressed air) that Vertigo is blasting at him. As soon as it comes at Blitzkrieg, the sound is rendered ineffective. Then Blitzkrieg will just fire a bolt at Karate Kid, dropping three of your team (You don't have any way of defense besides Vertigo's sonic bolts, and they are rendered ineffective), and killing them(since Karate Kid is the only one who can fly). And Monolith is taken down by Zero/Karnak.

I don't even need Thing to take down your team.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Also, regarding Agent X's stealth. His vibranium armor deads the sounds of his foot steps, as well as incoming sounds, so without sight, he's nearly useless. His vibranium armor doesn't account for the displacement of air and smoke he'd make as he moves. Gamora and Karate Kid are both trained to take out opponents using their other senses besides sight and sound, including touch.

Okay, show me a proof that Karate Kid and Gamora have THAT good senses. I have never seen them do stuff like sensing the displacement of the air...

I suppose that they aren't near the heat Monolith is making, since they would die. No other heat marks near, so Agent Zero could just see their heat signatures and snipe them.

They go up in the air, and are taken down by Blitzkrieg. They stay down, and get either heated by their own teammate or taken down by Zero. They are dead in both cases.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Agent X dies or is rendered unconscious via exfixiation, gasping for air in a smoke and dust filled forest, and being cooked alive in a metal suit of armor that conducts heat like an oven and causes him severe heatstroke. If Agent Zero's vibranium suit dampens the effects of sound energy, it should also dampen the effects of thermal energy.

Why can't KK, Vertigo etc die of asphyxiation and smoke inhalation? Everybody there needs to breathe.

FLIGHT RINGS ARE WAY ABOVE 100 MILES AN HOUR.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
FLIGHT RINGS ARE WAY ABOVE 100 MILES AN HOUR.
Listen to this man.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If Agent Zero's vibranium suit dampens the effects of sound energy, it should also dampen the effects of thermal energy.

because vibranium absorbs vibration ....... and kinetic energy to some degree ..... not other energy types (such as heat)



...... as far as i know

I might not be able to finish this round and have to forfeit. It looks like I have to fly to Dallas on Wednesday morning, and I don't know if I'll have net access in my hotel room.
If I have net access down in Texas I'll continue.

I'll do what I can for now.

A lot of points to cover.





About the Vibranium;

No, it won't dampen heat.

The properties of vibranium (the Wakandan Vibranium Agent X's suit consists of) deals specifically with the dissipation of sound waves, vibrations, and concussive force, not heat. High explosives can still destroy vibranium, the metal will simply muffle the sound of the explosion. Also, extreme heat will still slag the metal and make it malleable so it can be formed into armor, boots, etc. Agent X is walking around in a soundproofed oven.

About the asphyxiation (exfixiation), Karate Kid can fly above the smoke with Vertigo if necessary (and as a tactic to rain down the pulse). Gamora has artificial enhancements that will allow her to survive in hostile environments like this for extended periods of time (this isn't her first smoke filled battlefield), and Living Monolith can operate for extended periods of time without need of breathing (as can Thing).

Now:


First off, I find it funny that you assume Blitzkrieg can simultaneously create tornado force winds (that won't effect his own teammates), defend himself from a sonic attack, defend himself from a heat blast from Living Monolith, and do all of this while he's exerting himself to direct these winds to put out a large magnitude forest fire. Blitzkrieg is not Storm, he's not going to be tossing around tornadoes and hurricanes. Let me dispel this misconception first:

Blitzkrieg can propel himself at 120 mph by charging particles in a funnel to create a whirlwind for propulsion, and then on top of that, he has to generate a continuous arc of lightening between his feet and the ground to stay in flight.

As I said before, Blitzkrieg is going to give away your position. If he flies above the fire he's going to be a big lightning beacon in the sky, and he can't propel himself through the air if he's using his manner of propulsion (the wind he generates with the charged particles) to blow back the smoke. At best, he'd be able to use his winds from an elevated position, but he'd have to train them downward and would leave himself open to either Vertigo or Monolith. It's either one or the other.

Also, Blitzkrieg's wind affects are small in scope. He doesn't generate a Storm-like wall of wind, he can generate a focussed stream of wind for propulsion that won't effect a wide area, especially not the size of a forest. Show me Blitzkrieg generating tornado level winds over a wide area, while in flight.

Also, on top of that, if Blitzkrieg is hurling 140 mph tornado force winds, Agent Zero and Karnak are going to be wind tossed in my direction (neither of them weigh above 300 lbs, and 140 mph winds can toss cars around. I'm sure you watched the Hurricane Katrina coverage). Unless they're behind Blitzkrieg's position, he's going to be blowing them away. And if they are behind Blitzkrieg, he's given away your position.

Not the best of tactics.

Next:





Show me he can.

In an inferno, among a dense redwood forest that's ablaze, it's going to be very hard to distinguish heat signatures. Show me where Agent X has used his visor to distinguish and track specific heat signatures in a smoke filled inferno, and I'll acquiesce. Also show me how he's going to be able to keep his footing and do this while his teammate is behind him tossing tornado force winds in the direction he's travelling in.

You can't.

The fact is, I've got you in a tactical bind.

If Blitzkrieg uses his winds to blow away the smoke, he won't be able to fly, and his teammates will have to stay behind him as he does this or risk being blown away in the winds he generates. Being that we are in a dense Redwood forest, this gives me ampel opportunity to flank you, as my flyer will be available to me.

If Blitzkrieg takes to the air, he'll give away your position due to the manner in which he flies. He generates an arc of electricity underneath himself which extends to the ground, and he generates a vortex of wind to propel himself through the air. He'll be a lightning beacon in the sky, and downed by Vertigo just as Rogue was in the scan I provided, or blasted by Monolith. Not to mention the smoke screen will continue to cover the battle field, and Blitzkrieg's abilities work by line of sight. He's inoperable.

Agent X's former armor (as Maverick) had self-sustaining life support equipment. There's no evidence that his new vibranium armor has the same abilities, and his bio gives the impression that it doesn't. Please provide evidence to the contrary. Until then.

Captain America being the last to fall in that scan proves nothing. I can provide scans of Spiderman punching out a Herald of Galactus and I can provide scans of Cap punching out King Thor. Does that mean Karnak would beat down Firelord or King Thor because he's a superior fighter than Cap or Spiderman? No. Karnak's "will-power" can't be quantified, and doing so is hollow conjecture. We've seen Spiderman, Captain America and company downed in the span of a couple panels, and we've seen Rogue downed in the span of a couple panels (at a distance in midflight). Unless Karnak can shut off the portion of his brain that processes sound and controls his sense of balance, he's going to be effected. To what degree he'll resist and how quickly he'll fall can't be quantified without any evidence.

Thing's a brick, and I never liked him.

I've got the tactical advantage, and nothing in your present arsenal can take it away from me.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
FLIGHT RINGS ARE WAY ABOVE 100 MILES AN HOUR.

Flight rings are capable of mach level flight and above. Booster Gold incorporates the same make of ring that Karate Kid does. Also, flight rings create an anti-gravity field about the wearer enabling to carry an aditional amount of mass without hindering their ability to fly. Karate Kid can move at high speed for short periods of time. He can't fly at extreme speeds for great periods of time due to not having any form of protection from the shere forces mach speeds generate. But he can use it in short bursts from point to point, and he can fly in excess of 200 mph without ill effects.

I'll let you know by tomorrow afternoon if I have to forfeit/close arguments. I should get the particulars about my hotel room by then. I'm in PST (California). What timezone are you in DC?

Originally posted by illadelph12
I'll let you know by tomorrow afternoon if I have to forfeit/close arguments. I should get the particulars about my hotel room by then. I'm in PST (California). What timezone are you in DC?

debating until wednesday should be enough for you to get your point across

your second round match probably wont start for about a month.......

if you get through.....

I know, but I don't feel it would be fair to DarkCrawler if I cut the time of debating in half simply because I have to travel for my job. What if he comes up with a valid rebuttal on Thursday and I'm not here to retort. Would he simply not be able to use it?

It sucks, but I believe in being fair.

If I don't have net access in my hotel room, I'll give DC the win.

No contest, and no regrets.

I'm a fair man.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I know, but I don't feel it would be fair to DarkCrawler if I cut the time of debating in half simply because I have to travel for my job. What if he comes up with a valid rebuttal on Thursday and I'm not here to retort. Would he simply not be able to use it?

It sucks, but I believe in being fair.

If I don't have net access in my hotel room, I'll give DC the win.

No contest, and no regrets.

I'm a fair man.

No! ..... debate for as long as you can.... if it's only till wednesday then just debate until wednesday..... after that leave it up to the judges/voters

it's unfair to everyone else in the tourney if anyone gets a walkover

if DC comes up with arguments when you can't come on then so be it, people will take into account that you can't respond.... maybe he'll be a gent and agree to only one response after your last post

but don't give anyone a walkover.... there was way too much hassle in the drafts for that

Agreed. DC can handle it how he wants, but walkovers should be frowned upon.

Haven't had the time to give this thread the time it deserves yet, what with the duplicating insanity over in the other match. But knowing I have roughly a week now, I'll make some time for this so that my vote (as a judge this week) is an intelligent one. But great stuff so far with what I've browsed through.

Originally posted by Scoobless

it's unfair to everyone else in the tourney if anyone gets a walkover


....coughdeadcough.....someones gonna have to have a swim in the "pool" dont you think?

at this point, i vote for ill. i just believe he has the better team, and gamora and kk alone stand a very good chance at beating DC's team. i am voting now because i won't have access to a computer for a few days.

My flight is Wednesday morning at 7:46a. I get my full iteniary tomorrow morning. I should know if my room has net access by tomorrow afternoon. If I don't I'll just debate through tomorrow night and let it ride, one way or another.

Good luck DC.

Originally posted by Scoobless
because vibranium absorbs vibration ....... and kinetic energy to some degree ..... not other energy types (such as heat)



...... as far as i know


Sound is, at it's essence, kinetic energy. Heat conduction and convection likewise.

Originally posted by Scoobless
debating until wednesday should be enough for you to get your point across

your second round match probably wont start for about a month.......

if you get through.....



Based on the strength of his rebuttal he definitely should do

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Sound is, at it's essence, kinetic energy. Heat conduction and convection likewise.

If you have queries then research and highlight on panel evidence. Comics dont revolve around science so while what youre saying might be the case in the real world its far from conclusive in this comic based debate.

If I have queries I'll ask the participants of this fight to provide me with information that will convince me of their argument so that I may better judge who I consider the victor. Thanks for the (oh-so-unpatronizing) advice, but I'm all good.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If I have queries I'll ask the participants of this fight to provide me with information that will convince me of their argument so that I may better judge who I consider the victor. Thanks for the (oh-so-unpatronizing) advice, but I'm all good.


That wasnt patronising in the slightest. You just decided to interpret it in such a way due to the high regard you have for your own intelligence. You have a chip on your shoulder. Lose it.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Based on the strength of his rebuttal he definitely should do

Wait...have I done something to you that makes you be like that?

Unless you don't have something else to say then just insult my debating here, leave....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Wait...have I done something to you that makes you be like that?

Unless you don't have something else to say then just insult my debating here, leave....

How was that insulting youre debating? I said for the time being my vote lies with Ill. Scoobs later questioned whether Ill would make it in to the next round and i said based on the strength of his argument he would. How is that in any way insulting your argument?

If i felt you had the stronger argument then id speak up for you in the same way. Its nothing personal, so dont take it as such.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
How was that insulting youre debating? I said for the time being my vote lies with Ill. Scoobs later questioned whether Ill would make it in to the next round and i said based on the strength of his argument he would. How is that in any way insulting your argument?

If i felt you had the stronger argument then id speak up for you in the same way. Its nothing personal, so dont take it as such.

So coming up to this thread and basically say that my debating is weak isn't insulting?

Also...

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Your not suppose to post in here unless your asking a question or voting. It helps if other members don't clutter the thread with comments.

Did you have any good reason of commenting the strength of my arguments...?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
That wasnt patronising in the slightest. You just decided to interpret it in such a way due to the high regard you have for your own intelligence. You have a chip on your shoulder. Lose it. I interpret it as patronizing because you come across as patronizing, regardless of whether you may realise it or not.

But this isn't the place to discuss common perception of your manner.

I'll judge this bout using my own criteria, I don't need your two cents. It doesn't buy much.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So coming up to this thread and basically say that my debating is weak isn't insulting?

Also...

I never said your debating is weak. Someone has to win here DC. At this moment in time my vote just happens to lie with Ill as i stated. By saying that am i saying your argument is weak? Not at all. Weaker than Ills? At the moment yes.

As for King M's comment, my first post was a vote so that was cool, my second was a response to Scoobs which was also neither a vote or a question. Youre being too sensitive Dc someone has to lose its nothing personal. Ironically your response to my comment hardly abides by KM's post as well.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I never said your debating is weak. Someone has to win here DC. At this moment in time my vote just happens to lie with Ill as i stated. By saying that am i saying your argument is weak? Not at all. Weaker than Ills? At the moment yes.

As for King M's comment, my first post was a vote so that was cool, my second was a response to Scoobs which was also neither a vote or a question. Youre being too sensitive Dc someone has to lose its nothing personal. Ironically your response to my comment hardly abides by KM's post as well.

But I wasn't saying anything about your vote. Your second post had nothing to do with voting or question.

And I aren't being sensetive, just asking why you felt the need to answer Scoob...when he wasn't asking anything.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I interpret it as patronizing because you come across as patronizing, regardless of whether you may realise it or not.

But this isn't the place to discuss common perception of your manner.

I'll judge this bout using my own criteria, I don't need your two cents. It doesn't buy much.

You interpret it as patronising because of the aforementioned. Nowhere in my post did i put you down, however you took offence to my comments because of how you feel about your own prowess.

Youre right two cents doesnt buy much but hopefully you'll see it as my contribution towards a much needed sense of humour.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But I wasn't saying anything about your vote. Your second post had nothing to do with voting or question.

And I aren't being sensetive, just asking why you felt the need to answer Scoob...when he wasn't asking anything.

If i realised it would be taken by yourself in the way it did then i wouldnt have said anything. Youre right i didnt need to respond to Scoobs and im sorry you took it the way you did. Seriously, its nothing personal. Who knows by the end of the round i may have switched allegiances. Im gonna stop now because im cluttering the thread.

You took it upon yourself to offer unwanted and superfluous "advice" about how I should judge the fight. "GS knows best."?

None of my queries in this thread are directed towards anybody other than the participants.

Ill has yet to convince me that Agent Zero will glow red hot if someone turns up the thermostat, as the nature of vibranium is to absorb vibratory energy such as, but not limited to, sound and store the energy in it's bonds increasing it's hardness at least according to Marvel Directory - the example that vibranium can be destroyed by explosives is explained by Marvel as the vibranium being unable to absorb the "force of the explosion" rather than an inability to absorb heat (A simple scan or incident where someone in vibranium, BP, Agent Zero etc. is burned etc. will suffice, Ill.). Or for that matter that Vertigo can go full-tilt with her powers affecting people 3000 ft away in a 180 degree arc, something I've never seen Vertigo do.

There are points that seem off to me in DC's posts that I also haven't had time to get around to. And I can do so without your pearls of wisdom, thanx.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You took it upon yourself to offer unwanted and superfluous "advice" about how I should judge the fight. "GS knows best."?

None of my queries in this thread are directed towards anybody other than the participants.

Ill has yet to convince me that Agent Zero will glow red hot if someone turns up the thermostat, as the nature of vibranium is to absorb vibratory energy such as, but not limited to, sound and store the energy in it's bonds increasing it's hardness at least according to Marvel Directory - the example that vibranium can be destroyed by explosives is explained by Marvel as the vibranium being unable to absorb the "force of the explosion" rather than an inability to absorb heat (A simple scan or incident where someone in vibranium, BP, Agent Zero etc. is burned etc. will suffice, Ill.). Or for that matter that Vertigo can go full-tilt with her powers affecting people 3000 ft away in a 180 degree arc, something I've never seen Vertigo do.

There are points that seem off to me in DC's posts that I also haven't had time to get around to. And I can do so without your pearls of wisdom, thanx.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Your not suppose to post in here unless your asking a question or voting. It helps if other members don't clutter the thread with comments.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im gonna stop now because im cluttering the thread.

Follow my example.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

Well, xmarksthespot was actually asking a question...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, xmarksthespot was actually asking a question...

Not when he was responding to me he wasnt. Thats what i was talking about. You consequently are not. Let it go.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You took it upon yourself to offer unwanted and superfluous "advice" about how I should judge the fight. "GS knows best."?

None of my queries in this thread are directed towards anybody other than the participants.

Ill has yet to convince me that Agent Zero will glow red hot if someone turns up the thermostat, as the nature of vibranium is to absorb vibratory energy such as, but not limited to, sound and store the energy in it's bonds increasing it's hardness at least according to Marvel Directory - the example that vibranium can be destroyed by explosives is explained by Marvel as the vibranium being unable to absorb the "force of the explosion" rather than an inability to absorb heat (A simple scan or incident where someone in vibranium, BP, Agent Zero etc. is burned etc. will suffice, Ill.). Or for that matter that Vertigo can go full-tilt with her powers affecting people 3000 ft away in a 180 degree arc, something I've never seen Vertigo do.

There are points that seem off to me in DC's posts that I also haven't had time to get around to. And I can do so without your pearls of wisdom, thanx.

I'll see what I can do. I have to be to work in a half an hour, and when I get off work I hae to pack for my trip.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that the fire is going to slag the suit, I'm saying that vibranium conducts heat and will cook Maverick inside of the suit. Vibranium absorbs impacts, not temperature variants.

Surely the fact that Vibranium can be forged is proof enough that it conducts heat?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Surely the fact that Vibranium can be forged is proof enough that it conducts heat?

You would think. It doesn't come out of the ground as boots and armor.

I can end the Vibranium - heat debate with a scan.... if anyone wants to see it......

(i'll have to go find the comic i'm thinking about)

Sure, show it.

hmm, i'm still waiting to be convinced. like x, i see a couple weaknesses in both arguments, namely the characters of vertigo and blitzkrieg. i think both are being overrated in this debate. i'm not buying that vertigo is capable of affecting dc's team the way ill is saying over such a distance, such a wide area and with all the chaos going on around her. and like ill, i think dc is giving too much credit to blitzkrieg who seems to be doing an awful lot of things at once . . .

so, i'm still undecided. were it to end now, i don't think i could vote for either. come folks -- convince me!!

er, i hope this wasn't clutter . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
i think dc is giving too much credit to blitzkrieg who seems to be doing an awful lot of things at once . . .
.

All he has to do is make a wind to clear the flames (can do it pretty much instantly). Then he has to shoot Vertigo down. Which he can do without even getting to flight (read my above post).

Question : Does anyone have those pic's of bucky being a bad-ass , i need them for my respect thread.....

Wrong thread, buddy.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Sure, show it.

This guy was working on treating soldiers with vibranium, giving them a "Skinsuit" to make them bulletproof

Of course he inevitably f**ks it up and ends up covered head to toe in pure liquid vibranium..... which bonds with his skin (way tougher than Agent Zero's or Black Panther's suits)


also note how he reacts to the fire.... or rather how he doesn't react....

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/2425/vibraniumguy6nn.jpg

Spidey fights him but finds he can't hurt the guy through regular methods.... so he employs his brain (at last) and remembers what he knows about vibranium:

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5990/vibranium017fk.jpg

then he uses that knowledge to f**k that guy up for the rest of his natural life:

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9484/vibranium026au.jpg

aint Spidey a saint?





EDIT: i'm not saying a vinranium mesh or weave suit would protect as well against flames... but it obviously has some benefits in those situations

I just got my itinerary for my trip to Dallas and I won't have net access (well, a computer) in my room.

I'll try to finish up my argument tonight when I get off work. I've got meetings and reports I've got to go over before I get off today, and I have to pack when I get off of work.

Real Estate Tax Law conferences get the gasface.

If I don't have time to get back on tonight, I'll just let what I have ride.

It's been a good exchange so far, DC. Thanks.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I just got my itinerary for my trip to Dallas and I won't have net access (well, a computer) in my room.

I'll try to finish up my argument tonight when I get off work. I've got meetings and reports I've got to go over before I get off today, and I have to pack when I get off of work.

Real Estate Tax Law conferences get the gasface.

If I don't have time to get back on tonight, I'll just let what I have ride.

It's been a good exchange so far, DC. Thanks.

Aw damn.

I guess people just have to judge from the things we have already written...

Wouldn't have a chance of finding a cafe with internet connection, or is the trip all business through and through?

Originally posted by Scoobless
This guy was working on treating soldiers with vibranium, giving them a "Skinsuit" to make them bulletproof

Of course he inevitably f**ks it up and ends up covered head to toe in pure liquid vibranium..... which bonds with his skin (way tougher than Agent Zero's or Black Panther's suits)


also note how he reacts to the fire.... or rather how he doesn't react....

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/2425/vibraniumguy6nn.jpg

Spidey fights him but finds he can't hurt the guy through regular methods.... so he employs his brain (at last) and remembers what he knows about vibranium:

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5990/vibranium017fk.jpg

then he uses that knowledge to f**k that guy up for the rest of his natural life:

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9484/vibranium026au.jpg

aint Spidey a saint?





EDIT: i'm not saying a vinranium mesh or weave suit would protect as well against flames... but it obviously has some benefits in those situations

Yep...I wouldn't say that normal flames have enough heat to burn it...

I won't do a full retort now (I only have a few minutes). I just want to point out a few

things.

1) You haven't accounted for the fact that other than Monolith, my team is highly mobile. The smoke cover is simply a means of misdirection (as I've stated from the start). We are still in a dense redwood forest per the battlefield description. If Blitzkrieg is using his winds to repel the smoke, he can't be using it to propel himself, and if he hovers in the air and uses the winds without anything for leverage behind himself, he'll blow himself out of the battlefield. At best he'd be stationary or extremely slow as he'd be exerting the same amount of momentum via the winds in two opposite directions.

2) If he uses his wind effects, it's going cause other debris to fly into the air (branches, leaves, loose dirt, rocks, topple decaying trees, etc.). In essences, a dust storm, which will still hinder visibility. One gust of wind is not going to clear a thick smoke cover of a burning forest (I live in California, I know this from firsthand experience).

3) Also, he can't blow just the smoke and not everything else along with, which includes his own teammates. Winds of the magnitude you are suggesting would blow his own teammates away (since they are not secured to the ground and way less than a car) unless they stayed behind you, and if they stay behind you, I can flank you, as my flyer is still available to me, while your's is being wasted to clear a smoke screen that he's actually making worse by adding loose dirt and leaves to.

I'd post more, but I've only got 15 minutes on my break.

I'll see what I can do at lunch.

Peace.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yep...I wouldn't say that normal flames have enough heat to burn it...

There's a big difference between an air tight vibranium skin, and a suit of armor with moving and removable parts.

Also, it said vibranium becomes gaseous at 6000 degrees. Forest fires can reach temperatures of 1,200-1,500 degrees, and there's still the element of your own munitions exploding within the blaze. Gunpowder is highly combustable.

I'm not trying to slag the suit anyway, just cook the person inside it.

Be back about 1p (PST) hopefully.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I won't do a full retort now (I only have a few minutes). I just want to point out a few

things.

1) You haven't accounted for the fact that other than Monolith, my team is highly mobile. The smoke cover is simply a means of misdirection (as I've stated from the start). We are still in a dense redwood forest per the battlefield description. If Blitzkrieg is using his winds to repel the smoke, he can't be using it to propel himself, and if he hovers in the air and uses the winds without anything for leverage behind himself, he'll blow himself out of the battlefield. At best he'd be stationary or extremely slow as he'd be exerting the same amount of momentum via the winds in two opposite directions.

2) If he uses his wind effects, it's going cause other debris to fly into the air (branches, leaves, loose dirt, rocks, topple decaying trees, etc.). In essences, a dust storm, which will still hinder visibility. One gust of wind is not going to clear a thick smoke cover of a burning forest (I live in California, I know this from firsthand experience).

3) Also, he can't blow just the smoke and not everything else along with, which includes his own teammates. Winds of the magnitude you are suggesting would blow his own teammates away (since they are not secured to the ground and way less than a car) unless they stayed behind you, and if they stay behind you, I can flank you, as my flyer is still available to me, while your's is being wasted to clear a smoke screen that he's actually making worse by adding loose dirt and leaves to.

I'd post more, but I've only got 15 minutes on my break.

I'll see what I can do at lunch.

Peace.

1. You once again think that Blitzkrieg's winds are like winds made by Storm or some other weather controller. They aren't. They are much more specifically controlled. He can have a wind on the ground simultaneysly while he is flying, because all he has to do is to control the charged particles. Not call winds like normal weather controllers do.

2) & 3) Like the picture shows, he can generate winds with such magnitude that they don't blow his teammates away.
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1707/blitz58tt.gif

And for the dirt and leaves, they didn't seem to bother him much on that picture. And isn't smoke just another form of air particle? What stops him from charging the smoke itself and driving it away?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Be back about 1p (PST) hopefully. I'll might probably be sleeping by then...

Iladeph's boss get's the gasface for making him forfeit the tourney....

<<All he has to do is make a wind to clear the flames (can do it pretty much instantly). Then he has to shoot Vertigo down. Which he can do without even getting to flight (read my above post).>>

you say he can specifically adjust the level of wind and specifically place it. it would have to be a very wide burst to remove the smoke. then there is the debris that while not affecting him (he's behind it, generating the wind so everything is blowing AWAY from him) his team would have a hard time getting around it. there's also the fact that ADDING oxygen (ie wind) would actually INCREASE the damage /smoke the flames would be doing. he cannot just 'blow out' a fire of this size, you'd be scattering burning material all over the place. i really don't see how blitzkrieg can deal with the smoke over such a large area while not severely hampering his own team or actually doing more harm than good.

though i'm not convinced vertigo can be as effective as ill claims, i guess i'd have to give a very slight edge to ill's team. gamora is the difference maker i think, and has been underused in this fight. she alone has taken down some VERY heavy hitters and even stood alone against the avengers for a prolonged period. karnak is good. gamora is better imo. as is kk.

my vote to ill.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<All he has to do is make a wind to clear the flames (can do it pretty much instantly). Then he has to shoot Vertigo down. Which he can do without even getting to flight (read my above post).>>

you say he can specifically adjust the level of wind and specifically place it. it would have to be a very wide burst to remove the smoke. then there is the debris that while not affecting him (he's behind it, generating the wind so everything is blowing AWAY from him) his team would have a hard time getting around it. there's also the fact that ADDING oxygen (ie wind) would actually INCREASE the damage /smoke the flames would be doing. he cannot just 'blow out' a fire of this size, you'd be scattering burning material all over the place. i really don't see how blitzkrieg can deal with the smoke over such a large area while not severely hampering his own team or actually doing more harm than good.



Sorry, I misput my words. He is supposed to clear out smoke. Not flames. He could create a concetrated wind that doesn't affect his teammmates, like shown into this picture.
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1707/blitz58tt.gif

He isn't also going blow away ALL smoke from the forest. Just the part that is around him. Then he can shoot down KK and Vertigo so the air is safe to him again...

Sorry for my wrong words.

Also, Karate Kid and Vertigo have immediatly get in the air when Monolith begans so they won't be cooked alive, and Gamora has to leave too so she won't die too (Unless she is heatproof). It is going to take some time for the smoke to get my team, since they are nearly a mile away. Blitzkrieg can also take up in the air immediatly. But where as Vertigo and KK have no defense against Blitzkrieg, (and from nearly a mile away, Vertigo's attacks would be useless, the distance would make the attack weaken, and Blitzkriegs winds would lessen it even more) Blitzkrieg is effective from up to two miles away. Even if they fire their attacks at the same time, guess which travels faster - sound or lightning? Blitzkrieg will also be the first one in air, since Karate Kid has to take Vertigo with him. And as soon as he spots the two...ZAP.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Sorry, I misput my words. He is supposed to clear out smoke. Not flames. He could create a concetrated wind that doesn't affect his teammmates, like shown into this picture.
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1707/blitz58tt.gif

He isn't also going blow away ALL smoke from the forest. Just the part that is around him. Then he can shoot down KK and Vertigo so the air is safe to him again...

Sorry for my wrong words.

hehe. no problem. things is, if he's not clearing the flames, how is he clearing the smoke? the flames will simply make more smoke. his vortex would pull more and more smoke towards him without really clearing it away. given time, he might be able to snuff some of the flames with the vortex, but it would be very difficult for him considering the wide area of the flames . . .

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Also, Karate Kid and Vertigo have immediatly get in the air when Monolith begans so they won't be cooked alive, and Gamora has to leave too so she won't die too (Unless she is heatproof). It is going to take some time for the smoke to get my team, since they are nearly a mile away. Blitzkrieg can also take up in the air immediatly. But where as Vertigo and KK have no defense against Blitzkrieg, (and from nearly a mile away, Vertigo's attacks would be useless, the distance would make the attack weaken, and Blitzkriegs winds would lessen it even more) Blitzkrieg is effective from up to two miles away. Even if they fire their attacks at the same time, guess which travels faster - sound or lightning? Blitzkrieg will also be the first one in air, since Karate Kid has to take Vertigo with him. And as soon as he spots the two...ZAP.

this is one of the problems i had with ill's attack. it WOULD hinder his guys as well. while gamora is not totally heat resistant she is extremely durable and would likely be able to handle the heatt. it is very close dc, the whole setting makes it hard to gauge a winner. just based on what i know of each character, ill seems to have an advantage. i'm not so convinced that i can't have my mind changed, though, so i leave it to you to convince me.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
1. You once again think that Blitzkrieg's winds are like winds made by Storm or some other weather controller. They aren't. They are much more specifically controlled. He can have a wind on the ground simultaneysly while he is flying, because all he has to do is to control the charged particles. Not call winds like normal weather controllers do.

2) & 3) Like the picture shows, he can generate winds with such magnitude that they don't blow his teammates away.
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1707/blitz58tt.gif

And for the dirt and leaves, they didn't seem to bother him much on that picture. And isn't smoke just another form of air particle? What stops him from charging the smoke itself and driving it away?



To be honest, all that scan showed me is how much old comics go against conventional logic.

It also puts a big hole in part of your argument.

You said Blitzkrieg could dampen soundwaves with his winds, but in that scan you provided, it plainly shows Blitzkrieg talking to Captain America and explaining what he's doing, in full, in the middle of a vortex he's created. Not only that, but then that jabroni Shamrock also talks to Cap before snatching the "prize".

That's old school comic physics for you.

Your not going to be dampening any sound waves. Your own scan has just shown that.

Originally posted by leonidas
this is one of the problems i had with ill's attack. it WOULD hinder his guys as well. while gamora is not totally heat resistant she is extremely durable and would likely be able to handle the heatt. it is very close dc, the whole setting makes it hard to gauge a winner. just based on what i know of each character, ill seems to have an advantage. i'm not so convinced that i can't have my mind changed, though, so i leave it to you to convince me.



As I stated in my first post, Monolith sets the forest on fire to cover our flank (behind and to our rear left/right).

This action does the following:

1) Limits the amount of directions my opponent can attack from
2) Provides a smoke screen on top of the cover of the forest we are already in (which Dizzle already stated hinders ranged vision).
3) Provide an obvious distraction (as you've diverted assets to controlling the smoke screen rather than making your position more tactically sound).

Now:

We are 3000 feet apart.

That's not a long distance, it's not even a mile.

An Olympic class athlete can cover a mile on foot in 3:43. Gamora can easily cover that in less than half the time.

Karate Kid has a Legion Flight Ring and can fly at around 200 mph. http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legionworlds05p268jn.jpg

I can have Vertigo and Karate Kid fly out to the right of the battlefield and come around behind your position in less than 60 seconds, while admittedly you're wasting time and Blitzkrieg's abilities to clear a smoke screen that will continue to permeate the forest unless you put out the flames completely. KK doesn't have to go above the trees while in flight. We're in a redwood forest. The canopy is at least 100 feet in the air. The visible lighting is limited due to the shade of the trees. I've got plenty of cover (and speed).

So what do we have:

We have Living Monolith and a wall of fire and smoke moving in on your position from your front, Gamora advancing under cover of the forest and smoke from your 9, and Karate Kid and Vertigo flanking you and coming up on your 6.

All this while you've admittedly wasted time generating a wind gust to clear a smoke screen for a small vantage point in a big forest.

Clearly, you can't see the forest for the trees.

I have you out-maneuvered, out-classed, out-gunned, and out-skilled.

.

Peace.

Originally posted by illadelph12


To be honest, all that scan showed me is how much old comics go against conventional logic.

It also puts a big hole in part of your argument.

You said Blitzkrieg could dampen soundwaves with his winds, but in that scan you provided, it plainly shows Blitzkrieg talking to Captain America and explaining what he's doing, in full, in the middle of a vortex he's created. Not only that, but then that jabroni Shamrock also talks to Cap before snatching the "prize".

That's old school comic physics for you.

Your not going to be dampening any sound waves. Your own scan has just shown that.

The winds shown there weren't at full power, not near what a full tornado can do...all it could do is to send few leaves flying around. You know when it is big wind and people have to shout to make it hear? But on a wind like that they can still hear eachother...now try to make your voice hear on tornado. The sound would be weakened on the winds.

Originally posted by illadelph12


As I stated in my first post, Monolith sets the forest on fire to cover our flank (behind and to our rear left/right).

This action does the following:

1) Limits the amount of directions my opponent can attack from
2) Provides a smoke screen on top of the cover of the forest we are already in (which Dizzle already stated hinders ranged vision).
3) Provide an obvious distraction (as you've diverted assets to controlling the smoke screen rather than making your position more tactically sound).

Like I have stated continous times, it takes time for the smoke reach my team. At least five minutes. A lot can happen in five minutes.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Now:

We are 3000 feet apart.

That's not a long distance, it's not even a mile.

An Olympic class athlete can cover a mile on foot in 3:43. Gamora can easily cover that in less than half the time.

Karate Kid has a Legion Flight Ring and can fly at around 200 mph. http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legionworlds05p268jn.jpg

I can have Vertigo and Karate Kid fly out to the right of the battlefield and come around behind your position in less than 60 seconds, while admittedly you're wasting time and Blitzkrieg's abilities to clear a smoke screen that will continue to permeate the forest unless you put out the flames completely. KK doesn't have to go above the trees while in flight. We're in a redwood forest. The canopy is at least 100 feet in the air. The visible lighting is limited due to the shade of the trees. I've got plenty of cover (and speed).

Bitlzkrieg doesn't have to worry about the smoke for minutes. While he can track the electrical impulses the bodies of Vertigo and Karate Kid send, and shoot them down.

Originally posted by illadelph12
So what do we have:

We have Living Monolith and a wall of fire and smoke moving in on your position from your front, Gamora advancing under cover of the forest and smoke from your 9, and Karate Kid and Vertigo flanking you and coming up on your 6.

All this while you've admittedly wasted time generating a wind gust to clear a smoke screen for a small vantage point in a big forest.

Clearly, you can't see the forest for the trees.

I have you out-maneuvered, out-classed, out-gunned, and out-skilled.

.

Peace.

The situation is like this, actually:

A) Your team doesn't know where my team is, therefore making Vertigos power useless.

B) Blitzkrieg knows the location of your team.

C) Blitzkrieg can effortlessly shoot Karate Kid and Vertigo down. Because they are like seeker missiles, only that they are lightning bolts.

D) After KK and Vertigo are down, Blitzkrieg can fly above the trees (and take his teammates with him) and take out Gamora from above by tracking her, unless she doesn't have nerve impulses, which I doubt. Gamora has no means of avoiding his lightning.

E) After Gamora is down, Blitzkrieg will find Monolith. He will drop Agent Zero and Thing down to the forest, and as Thing will keep Monolith busy, Blitzkrieg clears the path for Zero, who kills the Monolith with adamantium bullets.

---------

Your team doesn't know where my team members are.

Blitzkrieg can track every member of your team down.

Your team has no way of avoiding Blitzkrieg's attacks.

Vertigo's attacks only work from reasonably close range, and to get close, she needs to know where my team is. And she will be taken down far before she can do anything.

Monolith has no defense against adamantium bullets, nor is he able to dodge them while Thing is pounding on him.

Agent Zero has lots and lots of adamantium bullets.

My team wins.

This is hollow conjecture, again, on your part.

The scan you provided showed Blitzkrieg, with a device in his hand, saying his sensitivity to electrical impules let him know that transmissions were being sent from the ship he was on.

In another scan (your "hurricane force winds" scan ), Shamrock is in a very close proximity to Blitzkrieg and Cap and catches them both by surprise.

If Blitzkrieg could sense people's positions by their bio-electric fields, Shamrock would have been zapped from the onset, and would not have gotten the drop on him and Cap.

He's not tracking anyone.

Originally posted by illadelph12





This is hollow conjecture, again, on your part.

The scan you provided showed Blitzkrieg, with a device in his hand, saying his sensitivity to electrical impules let him know that transmissions were being sent from the ship he was on.

In another scan (your "hurricane force winds" scan ), Shamrock is in a very close proximity to Blitzkrieg and Cap and catches them both by surprise.

If Blitzkrieg could sense people's positions by their bio-electric fields, Shamrock would have been zapped from the onset, and would not have gotten the drop on him and Cap.

He's not tracking anyone.

I belive thats what we call PIS......

You're immensely underestimating Monlolith. He's invulnerable to most forms of conventional attack (including firearms and energy blasts), he can erect fields of concussive force to deflect projectiles, he can emit concussive force blast, sonic waves, heat blasts and heat waves, and he's organic granite. I'm not using Abdel in his Living Pharoah form, I'm using his Living Monolith form. He's like a giant version of the Thing with energy blasts. He's taken on the entire Avenger's roster single handedly. Adamantium bullets won't incapacitate him in one shot, and on top of that, he can erect shields. He's taken far worse. I don't have any scans available to me here in the airport, but if I get a chance when I'm in Dallas, I will provide them.

Your team doesn't know where my team is either.

And, you're not taking Gamora (or Karate Kid) down that easily. They've both bested far superior forces than your team presents.

Be back in a sec, they're making an announcement at the terminal.

Karate Kid at work.

Taking down people in armored suits (unarmed):

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/1039/legionaires026158rp.th.jpg

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/5808/legionaires026161cy.th.jpg

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9666/legionworlds05p228yl.th.jpg

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4584/legionworlds05p234gf.th.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/4291/legionworlds05p277vq.th.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/8936/legionworlds05p281vx.th.jpg


Sensing the presence of people out of his peripheral:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/510/lsh103163nu.th.jpg

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6505/lsh103177xw.th.jpg

The pictures show really tiny

If I get my hands on a PC in Dallas I'll continue. The above may more than likely be my last post.

Originally posted by illadelph12


Your team doesn't know where my team is either.


Unless your team's brains don't use electrical impulses in their nerves, then I'm afraid that Blitzkrieg can sense them.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The pictures show really tiny

Give me a sec.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Unless your team's brains don't use electrical impulses in their nerves, then I'm afraid that Blitzkrieg can sense them.

Didn't seem to stop Shamrock from sneaking up on him.

Damn, I've got to go. They've started boarding.

I'll see what I can do when I land.

Either way, it's been good DC. Good luck.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Didn't seem to stop Shamrock from sneaking up on him.

Actually, Shamrock sneak up on Captain America...and Blitzkrieg wasn't concetrating on sensing the impulses. Shamrock also has that lucky-power of hers (Kind of like Domino or Longshot) so she isn't really a good example.

Here:
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1751/blitz74co.gif

And good flight. And good luck.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Actually, Shamrock sneak up on Captain America...and Blitzkrieg wasn't concetrating on sensing the impulses. Shamrock also has that lucky-power of hers (Kind of like Domino or Longshot) so she isn't really a good example.

Here:
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1751/blitz74co.gif

And good flight. And good luck.



That scan specifically displays Blitzkrieg, with a device in his hand on a ship, stating that he can track electrical impulses, and The Hauptman (the other character next to him) congratulates him for finding the frequency for the Skull's well concealed Homing Device. He's not tracking a bio-electric field, he's tuned in the transmission from a homing device using an instrument on the ship.

As I said before, hollow conjecture. He's not tracking anyone.

Since Ill's probably going to be gone, now is as good a time as any to place my vote. I think enough arguments have taken place to justify it.

I had really hoped for some one-sided matches to judge for. This has been hard as hell. Great job to both of you...this match was sweet.

So now to my reasoning:
First off, while there's lots of trees, with everyone's powers and abilities, it would be easy enough to survive the smoke. If the blasts hit any of DC's guys, sure they'll be dead (except maybe Thing), but I don't think any of these people are going to be suffocating. Slightly hindered at best, nothing more.

Monolith seems to have the most total power in the fight. Starting there, I had to see if DC made up the difference elsewhere. Absolutely SICK use of Agent Zero, though, by the way. I thought he was totally outclassed here, but you convinced me that your two assasin-types would best Ill's two assasin-types. The stealth would be key...and unless he got hit by a Monolith blast, he won't be baking to death.

Also nice were the retorts to Vertigo's affects. And while I don't think Blitzkrieg would be able to fight it, he has as much chance of hitting her from a distance with lightning as she does of messing him up from that same distance. Then it comes down to "Can Thing and one or two of DC's teammates (probably Zero and Blitz) take out Monolith??" I think yes.

I vote DC. Congrats to both...this fight kicked a lot of ass. If compelling new evidence if shown, I retain the right to change.

-DM

Originally posted by illadelph12


That scan specifically displays Blitzkrieg, with a device in his hand on a ship, stating that he can track electical impulses, and The Hauptman (the other character next to him) congratulates him for finding the frequency for the Skull's well concealed Homing Device. He's not tracking a bio-electric field, he's tuned in the transmission from a homing device using an instrument on the ship.

As I said before, hollow conjecture. He's not tracking anyone.



Sensetivity to electrical impulses.

I wasn't talking anything about bio-electrical field. I talked about electrical impulses. Brain sends messages to nerves using them.

Hauptmann also didn't know that there was device on the ship, he had anticipated it. And it's not a device on Blitzkrieg's hands, he is piloting the plane...

Hmm...good match. At first glance, Ill's team operates on a higher power level, but DC did a great job of making me reconsider that and closing the gap.

But I think overall Ill's strategy gets the slight edge. Very slight.

In what?

It takes minutes for the smoke to reach my team.

Vertigo has to see my team to affect them. Blitzkrieg can track her and Karate Kid in the sky and shoot them without the two even seeing him.

Karate Kid and Vertigo can always stay down, but then Vertigo will die in the fire and smoke, which gives Blitzkrieg a prefect chance to go to the sky (as Karate Kid is not fast enough to get to him before he is shot down by a lighting bolt that can't be dodged) and there is not Vertigo to stop him.

Of course, they can choose to not set the forest on fire, but then my orginal solution remains and they are taken down by Agent Zero who can't be heard, seen or smelled. Or Blitzkrieg can rain lightning at them from above.

If Vertigo, their greatest asset, stays on ground, he is killed by fire and smoke. If she is taken above to the sky, she is shot down by lightning. If she moves in the forest that is not in fire, Agent Zero will take her down. When Vertigo is down, the next threat is Monolith, who also has no way of preventing Agent Zero of assassinating him Monolith isn't actually known for his great senses, while Agent Zero is master of stealth:
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/4786/agentzero64pp.gif
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/4814/agentzero29gp.gif

Adamantium bullets will take Monolith down. After that, Gamora and Karate Kid are turned into barbeque by Blitzkrieg.

The other team doesn't have a way to avoid being killed.

My vote stays with Ill.

i'll currently vote for DC (I like the whole stealth thing)..... but i can change this anytime before sunday if i'm convinced enough to do so.... right?

the whole strategy of setting the forest on fire still doesn't sit well with me, ill. you seem to be saying that the smoke will hinder everyone. true, but the blaze would very quickly surround EVERYONE. the heat within forest fires gets EXTREME to be kind. for most of either of the teams to survive they would need to end things quick. and you're 1000 yards, not 3000 . . .

this is what i see happening based on what i've read:

fire starts and very quickly becomes unmanageable threatening to actually cut the 2 teams off. (the path of a forest fire cannot really be predicted, especially as no wind directions have been specified). so, who can operate best in the smoke and heat of the fire? monolith certainly. kk can fly ABOVE the forest but he'd need to go well above. i think people keep underestimating the impact the fire would have. red woods are BIG . . . still, i think ill's strategy of going around and through the trees with vert and kk could work because covering 1000 yards would be pretty easy to do before things got TOO out of hand with the fire . . . i also think it WOULD be hard for blitz to get clear shots at them through the trees. once vert is close, she can work her powers to down blitz who it seems is busy trying to clear smoke away while trees are blocking him and the forest remains on fire . . . (sorry dc, while the general idea was decent, i don't think it was -- practically speaking -- a feasible ploy). once blitz is down, the numbers (and imo the skill of the characters) really shifts to ill. again, the fire would make it hard to win this and not get himself killed, but allowing for the fact that he could, i'd give it to ill.

as far as your rebuttal, dc: the smoke would likely get to you in sooner than 5 minutes, though i suppose it depends on WHERE exactly monolith aimed his blasts. he can likely shoot them 1000 yards, but ill didn't really specify. still, fire spreads very fast and he did say he was surrounding the battle field . . .

<<Bitlzkrieg doesn't have to worry about the smoke for minutes. While he can track the electrical impulses the bodies of Vertigo and Karate Kid send, and shoot them down.>>

i'm not buying this. there is no evidence that he can detect impulses as faint as the ones given off in the brain -- especially over the distances we're talking and while he is distracted.

<<Your team doesn't know where my team is, therefore making Vertigos power useless.>>

general direction of teams was known at the start.

<<Blitzkrieg can track every member of your team down.
Your team has no way of avoiding Blitzkrieg's attacks. Your team has no way of avoiding Blitzkrieg's attacks. >>

no proof he can track and the trees would provide good cover and make hitting them very tough. if he even sees them coming BEFORE vertigo strikes. (which i personally don't think is likely -- they can use trees as cover long enough to get in range for vert's powers to work on blitz)

<<Vertigo's attacks only work from reasonably close range, and to get close, she needs to know where my team is. And she will be taken down far before she can do anything.>.

i explained how she could get close enough already . . .

<<Monolith has no defense against adamantium bullets, nor is he able to dodge them while Thing is pounding on him.
Agent Zero has lots and lots of adamantium bullets.
My team wins.>>

monolith dies, i don't doubt it. but then vert and kk come from behind and fell x and ben, or gamora is waiting for them and deals with them.

sorry dc, i think you put up a valiant fight, but i just don't see it. i'm afraid, my friend, i'm still sticking with ill . . .

sorry for the lengthy post. i just wanted to clearly outline what i see as happening and WHY i voted as i did . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
sorry for the lengthy post. i just wanted to clearly outline what i see as happening and WHY i voted as i did . . .

hey man... can you do me a favour and learn how to use the quote function..... lol

it'll make your whole post look neater and people will know whose posts you are replying to

tx

DC, there's a huge degree of separation from detecting the electrical currents of a homing device on the same vessel you're in, and tracking the electrical impulses of the human brain, which are bio-electrical in nature, in a forrest. In that scan, he didn't pinpoint the exact location of the homing device, he simply sensed that there was a device on the ship which was transmitting a signal. You still haven't proven that Blitzkrieg can track a person via the bio-electric current of the human brain, or that Blitzkrieg can pinpoint the exact location of a human brain and attack in this manner.

Adamantium bullets will not kill Living Monolith easily. He's organic granite and highly resistant to injury. He's taken optic blasts, strikes from Mjolnir, plasma blasts from Havok, slashes from Wolverine, and then some, and kept on going. Bullets will not inflict terminal damage on a being of his mass. The bullets still have to pass through his dense hide and skeletal structure to hit anything that would cause a lethal wound. It's going to take a lot of rounds to bring him down, he's going to be fighting back, and he can protect himself by erecting fields of concussive force to deflect the projectiles.

Once I get my footing down here and gather my resources, I will show definitive proof that your team is simply out-classed. To be honest, Gamora or Monolith, alone, could kill your entire roster. Karate Kid has taken down opponents that would eat anyone on your team alive. This really isn't even close.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Adamantium bullets will not kill Living Monolith easily. He's organic granite and highly resistant to injury. He's taken optic blasts, strikes from Mjolnir, plasma blasts from Havok, slashes from Wolverine, and then some, and kept on going.

Um...Wolverine's slashes took half the Thing's face off.... and he's been stabbed by Wolverine recently (enemy of the state)

If Monolith really isn't fazed by those attacks he may be above the durability/killability limit

Originally posted by Scoobless
Um...Wolverine's slashes took half the Thing's face off.... and he's been stabbed by Wolverine recently (enemy of the state)

If Monolith really isn't fazed by those attacks he may be above the durability/killability limit

Monolith isn't the only participant in this tournament, let alone this thread (Agent X is wearing vibranium armor) that can take a slash from Wolverine. I'm not worried.

Vibranium armour rips and cuts without too much effort

meh

what exactly has taken out the Living Monolith then?

Here's Gamora facing odds far worse than this with ease, alone.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/658/227nk.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3774/234qc.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3803/248ex.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5315/253yi.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8310/267xh.jpg

Unfortunately (for me , I'd much rather be take your team on, no offense, DC), I've gotta give Ill the nod. His team is just a bit higher caliber (KK and Gamora > Karnak and Zero, Monolith > Thing/Blitzkrieg) and his strategy just seems a bit more realistic. You've really put too much of a burden on Blitzkrieg. He's got to be tracking the other team, clearing the smoke out of the way and taking pot shots all the while somehow keeping himself from getting taken out by Vertigo on the ground or KK with his flight ring or Monolith with his blasts? I just don't see it.

you think Monolith can take Thing and Blitzkrieg?.... at the same time or one after the other?

Originally posted by Scoobless
you think Monolith can take Thing and Blitzkrieg?.... at the same time or one after the other?
One after the other.

Leo, 1000 yards is 3000 feet. Yard equals 3 feet.

oops . . . i thought i'd read 3000 yards in your post . . .

It's all good, it's my fault for converting it to feet.

yeah, that's what i meant. ohhhh, you thought the was for me??

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, that's what i meant. ohhhh, you thought the was for me??



just kidding -- it WAS for me . . .

Originally posted by illadelph12
It's all good, it's my fault for converting it to feet.

damn you all....everyone knows metric is the way to go.... unless you're happy still living under the rule of the Brirish (English) Empire and their system of measurements