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Can Luke's most powerful student take down Lord Hoth?

FTW???? hell no!

Actually Kyp has a pretty good chance here.

Put down the pipe guys, Kyp would pwn Hoth.

What proof you have glentract?

Of course I do, would you expect any less?

1. Kyp has demonstrated a greater level of force mastery. How do we know? Lets look at the obvious facts, shall we:

- Kyp Durron controlled a black hole. Yep, Luke Skywalkers most famous feat has been done by someone else, this someone being none other then Kyp Durron.

- Kyp Durron defeated JA Luke. Now, JA Luke is a far cry from NJO Luke, but even JA Luke could give Hoth a very hard time. Now, plenty of people say, "well...well...it must have been Exar. YES! It was Exar. Exar did it, not Kyp!" Well, I ask you how the heck would Exar have done that? Exar was so weak at this point that he had difficulty talking to people for an extended period of time without rest and he had just used up almost all of his energy killing Gantoris just a few weeks earlier. But then we get the argument that there is just no way Kyp Durron could have defeated Luke with just 2 or 3 weeks of training. Well, I thought so too until I realized that Vima(a decendent of Nomi Sunrider) had spent months, if not years teaching him. Kyp had already spent a lot of time learning before he fought Luke.

So, Kyp Durron has the ability, within weaks of attending the Jedi Academy, to literally rip JA Luke Skywalker out of his body. Impressive? I think so.

2. But Hoth has more experince!!!!11!

- Well, this may of may not be true for combat. Now, having been at way his entire life mixed with the fact that he is a good 20 or so years older then Kyp you would certainly think so, but guess what! Kyp was one of the most proactive Jedi ever. He was the very first person to fight a Yuuzhan Vong. Most other Jedi perferred to wait back and wait for a response from the opposing side. Kyp on the other hand perferred more aggresive negotiations.

So, even though Hoth has more experince overall(which won't help very much in combat), he has not much more experince then Kyp in a combat sense, because even though Hoth was a warrior Jedi, we have no indication that he was as constant of a fighter as Kyp.

3. Kyp killed the Leviathan!

This is one of Kyp's biggest feats and one of the most impressive feats ever performed by a force user. Why, because he killed an Ancient Superweapon that was designed to kill Jedi in massive numbers. Want to see it? Well even if you don't, here it is:
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/1482/0leviathan3bg6hp.th.jpg


Now, don't say I don't know anything about Lord Hoth or anything like that as I probably know more then 90% of the people here at KMC.

So, now it's your turn. How does Hoth compare to Kyp in the slightest.

I don't know alot about either of them so I'll wait for calvin44's parry (if he has one). But I am curious to know, Glentract, when did Kyp kill a Leviathan. I mean, what form, JA, NJO ect.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Of course I do, would you expect any less?

1. Kyp has demonstrated a greater level of force mastery. How do we know? Lets look at the obvious facts, shall we:

- Kyp Durron controlled a black hole. Yep, Luke Skywalkers most famous feat has been done by someone else, this someone being none other then Kyp Durron.

- Kyp Durron defeated JA Luke. Now, JA Luke is a far cry from NJO Luke, but even JA Luke could give Hoth a very hard time. Now, plenty of people say, "well...well...it must have been Exar. YES! It was Exar. Exar did it, not Kyp!" Well, I ask you how the heck would Exar have done that? Exar was so weak at this point that he had difficulty talking to people for an extended period of time without rest and he had just used up almost all of his energy killing Gantoris just a few weeks earlier. But then we get the argument that there is just no way Kyp Durron could have defeated Luke with just 2 or 3 weeks of training. Well, I thought so too until I realized that Vima(a decendent of Nomi Sunrider) had spent months, if not years teaching him. Kyp had already spent a lot of time learning before he fought Luke.

So, Kyp Durron has the ability, within weaks of attending the Jedi Academy, to literally rip JA Luke Skywalker out of his body. Impressive? I think so.

2. But Hoth has more experince!!!!11!

- Well, this may of may not be true for combat. Now, having been at way his entire life mixed with the fact that he is a good 20 or so years older then Kyp you would certainly think so, but guess what! Kyp was one of the most proactive Jedi ever. He was the very first person to fight a Yuuzhan Vong. Most other Jedi perferred to wait back and wait for a response from the opposing side. Kyp on the other hand perferred more aggresive negotiations.

So, even though Hoth has more experince overall(which won't help very much in combat), he has not much more experince then Kyp in a combat sense, because even though Hoth was a warrior Jedi, we have no indication that he was as constant of a fighter as Kyp.

3. Kyp killed the Leviathan!

This is one of Kyp's biggest feats and one of the most impressive feats ever performed by a force user. Why, because he killed an Ancient Superweapon that was designed to kill Jedi in massive numbers. Want to see it? Well even if you don't, here it is:
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/1482/0leviathan3bg6hp.th.jpg


Now, don't say I don't know anything about Lord Hoth or anything like that as I probably know more then 90% of the people here at KMC.

So, now it's your turn. How does Hoth compare to Kyp in the slightest.
ok, finally you give me substanial proof on you side, I wanted to know if you had any proof, and i see it, so, Darth Glentract: You are right.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I don't know alot about either of them so I'll wait for calvin44's parry (if he has one). But I am curious to know, Glentract, when did Kyp kill a Leviathan. I mean, what form, JA, NJO ect.

Sometime between JA and NJO.

Originally posted by calvin44
ok, finally you give me substanial proof on you side, I wanted to know if you had any proof, and i see it, so, Darth Glentract: You are right.

What? I finally give you proof! lol. You are such a joker. How many times have you given proof beyond what I give? Infact, when have you ever given substantial proof for your side? Lets see, you other post in this thread states, "FTW???? hell no!" and the other says, "What proof you have glentract?"

Lets see your proof in some of the other threads that actually means anything rather then just your blind assumptions like, "Leaving the force must be hard so he must be powerful."

Ok, tommorrow i will, i'm tired tonight.

Edit

Kyp Dyrron.

Also worth noting:
Hoth was considered the one Jedi who could potentially resist the Thought Bomb or be a hindrance to it.
Moreover, Kyp didn't kill that LEviathan on his own, he had most of the other students backing him up, as well as the fact that Hoith grew up in an era warring with the Sith...Hoth was the Jedi who turned the Sith back and crushed their empire

Dorsk 81, a weakling, was with him, not every student in the academy.

Hoth was losing when Bane was in charge. They were being decimated until the Sith decided to go fight the Jedi person for person.

Where did you hear that Hoth could survive the thought bomb?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Of course I do, would you expect any less?

Lol!



A dovin basal, not a full-scale blackhole.



You make it sound like Kyp owned Luke in a duel or something. Not really. He knocked Luke' spirit out of his body with the help of Exar, while Luke was hesitant to hurt him. And Kun did a good bit of the work himself, presumably. He was powerful enough to fry Gantoris a while before, and challenge a dozen Jedi Padawans and spirits just prior to his death.



Pro-active as may have been, and however versatile the threats, he lacked the saber-to-saber experience that Hoth possessed. The elder Jedi led the Army of Light against the Brotherhood for years and years, and was the foremost combatant in the Jedi ranks.



And yet you still have absolutely no idea how he killed it, do you?

Since we have no idea how Revan killed two Terantatek simultaneously, I'll say that he roasted them to death with his pinky finger.

He has teh Uber lightning!!

--

Just to clear things up, I'm favoring Kyp in this battle. But it certainly won't be anywhere near as much of a landslide as you make it seem.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
A dovin basal, not a full-scale blackhole.

True, it was just a dovin basal. The thing is though that he controlled it just as easily as NJO Luke did.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
You make it sound like Kyp owned Luke in a duel or something. Not really. He knocked Luke' spirit out of his body with the help of Exar, while Luke was hesitant to hurt him. And Kun did a good bit of the work himself, presumably. He was powerful enough to fry Gantoris a while before, and challenge a dozen Jedi Padawans and spirits just prior to his death.

How is knocking someone out of their body in seconds not owning them?

Corran Horn said that Exar had to rest for a long time before doing anything(like 2 weeks or so). Corran also said that Kyp was more in control when he blasted Luke and did all those other things then Exar was and he provided some reasons that made him think that, but I don't remember what his evidence was. Gantoris was only a little bit stronger then Corran at this point. Corran got blasted back into a wall by Kyp when he tried to calm him down. Exar killing Gantoris doesn't mean that he was very powerful or that he even did more then a little of the work to defeat Luke.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Pro-active as may have been, and however versatile the threats, he lacked the saber-to-saber experience that Hoth possessed. The elder Jedi led the Army of Light against the Brotherhood for years and years, and was the foremost combatant in the Jedi ranks.

Kyp had huge amounts of melee experince with the Yuuzhan Vong since he was on the frontline 90% of the time. We have no proof that Hoth fought up front(or at least I haven't seen any indication of this). We do know that Hoth was called a great fighter even in his old age, but so was Yoda who spent almost no time on the frontline.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
And yet you still have absolutely no idea how he killed it, do you?

Since we have no idea how Revan killed two Terantatek simultaneously, I'll say that he roasted them to death with his pinky finger.

He has teh Uber lightning!!

We know that he was able to rip Luke from his body even after JA. It would be foolish to assume that he killed it in some way that didn't require his power. The less assumptions that we make, the better. Assuming that there were special cicumstances to his victory is foolish.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
We know that he was able to rip Luke from his body even after JA. It would be foolish to assume that he killed it in some way that didn't require his power. The less assumptions that we make, the better. Assuming that there were special cicumstances to his victory is foolish.
Are you saying he is the only one that could kill it?

Did I ever make any reference to that? Still waiting for your arguments, btw.

Again, it was a dovin basal. Now, Kyp may have manipulated it without an overwhelming amount of difficulty, but so what? Do you want to brush this off as another one of your 'EU inconsistencies'? Are you forgetting that he got the crap beaten out of him by four slayers, while Luke defeated seven, and Force pwn3d an eighth? Granted, Kyp had 'less knowledge' of them, but if he'd been as great a tactical warrior and duelist as you claim, he should have been able to overcome this, and adapt to the situation rather quickly.




Because he did it to a twenty-something, relatively inexperienced Luke as opposed to a sixty-something, battle-hardened, highly experienced Jedi warrior? Not to say that Luke wasn't powerful by this point, by Hoth would still pwn his ass.



Alright. But that's Dark Kyp with the power of spirit Kun behind him. Now, he may have very well overcome Luke's fledging defenses, but it wasn't like Skywalker was willing to Force choke / throw his wayward apprentice, considering he was still trying to get him back to his senses.



Erm, rude?



Again; like Luke, Corran wasn't willing to go all out on Kyp. He may have begun to prepare himself for an attack, but I doubt that he was willing to hurt him.

And I suggest you re-read the quote:

"Kyp's previous attacks were like light breezes compared to with a full-out gale."

Apparently, his previous, unbolstered Force attacks were miniscule and weak in comparison to his Dark, amplified attacks, which were backed by the power of Exar Kun's spectre.

Ahem. . .



Aren't you the one who just said that he was only a 'little bit stronger' than the God that is Corran?



What's indicating that Kyp is? I know for a fact that he is often involved in counciling matters. And you're saying that a frontline general has only been a few duels. Please.

Apprently you forget that I have stated that feats of a character, or certain things that it says they did, such as when it says, "Palpatine was pleased: one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time was born in pain and suffering, and it was his apprentice." Do you think that Darth Vader is really one of the more powerful Sith Lords of all time while in his suit(this is referring to when Palpatine tells Vader that Vader killed Padme in his anger, so it's mech-Vader). Warrior without peer is probably hyperbole since it said in the same article about Lord Hoth that he was one of the foremost Jedi of his era. While wouldn't it say that he was the downright best?

Wookipedia's hyperbole in Kyp's favor, 'almost rivaling Luke in Force and lightsaber ability', doesn't seem to be much in terms of feat, and I've seen you use those exact words before.



And Luke still pwns his ass in terms of 'feat wars'.




Pfft. Please. You've shown nothing except for your biased, relatively unsupported opinion on several matters. I'll give you the JA points, which were valid and informative, but you've misused them on multiple fronts.

And you're keeping assumptions to a minimum? Lmfao!

'Since we don't know how Kyp killed the Leviathan, I'll use the most helpful and supportive method possible. He overpowered it!!'

And so what if he did? The thing's a dozen or so meters tall; the little children in Ewok Adventure killed a thirty meter tall Gorax. Props! They'd WTFpwn Darth Revan!!

Again, it was a dovin basal. Now, Kyp may have manipulated it without an overwhelming amount of difficulty, but so what? Do you want to brush this off as another one of your 'EU inconsistencies'? Are you forgetting that he got the crap beaten out of him by four slayers, while Luke defeated seven, and Force pwn3d an eighth? Granted, Kyp had 'less knowledge' of them, but if he'd been as great a tactical warrior and duelist as you claim, he should have been able to overcome this, and adapt to the situation rather quickly.




Because he did it to a twenty-something, relatively inexperienced Luke as opposed to a sixty-something, battle-hardened, highly experienced Jedi warrior? Not to say that Luke wasn't powerful by this point, by Hoth would still pwn his ass.



Alright. But that's Dark Kyp with the power of spirit Kun behind him. Now, he may have very well overcome Luke's fledging defenses, but it wasn't like Skywalker was willing to Force choke / throw his wayward apprentice, considering he was still trying to get him back to his senses.



Erm, rude?



Again; like Luke, Corran wasn't willing to go all out on Kyp. He may have begun to prepare himself for an attack, but I doubt that he was willing to hurt him.

And I suggest you re-read the quote:

"Kyp's previous attacks were like light breezes compared to with a full-out gale."

Apparently, his previous, unbolstered Force attacks were miniscule and weak in comparison to his Dark, amplified attacks, which were backed by the power of Exar Kun's spectre.

Ahem. . .



Aren't you the one who just said that he was only a 'little bit stronger' than the God that is Corran?



What's indicating that Kyp is? I know for a fact that he is often involved in counciling matters. And you're saying that a frontline general has only been a few duels. Please.



Wookipedia's hyperbole in Kyp's favor, 'almost rivaling Luke in Force and lightsaber ability', doesn't seem to be much in terms of feat, and I've seen you use those exact words before.



And Luke still pwns his ass in terms of 'feat wars'.




Pfft. Please. You've shown nothing except for your biased, relatively unsupported opinion on several matters. I'll give you the JA points, which were valid and informative, but you've misused them on multiple fronts.

And you're keeping assumptions to a minimum? Lmfao!

'Since we don't know how Kyp killed the Leviathan, I'll use the most helpful and supportive method possible. He overpowered it!!'

And so what if he did? The thing's a dozen or so meters tall; the little children in Ewok Adventure killed a thirty meter tall Gorax. Props! They'd WTFpwn Darth Revan!!

EDIT: Ah! Quoting error!

Actually, Glentract, I wasn't making an argument so much as I was pointing out how cocked up yours is... You are horribly biased, and next time you accuse me of not reading the source material, keep it civil. You don't -want- me to turn my full attention to you, Glentract. I've ripped you limb from limb before. Don't oblige me to do it again.

Wait a sec: Kyp killed the infant leviathan, didn't he? What about the mother?

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Again, it was a dovin basal. Now, Kyp may have manipulated it without an overwhelming amount of difficulty, but so what? Do you want to brush this off as another one of your 'EU inconsistencies'? Are you forgetting that he got the crap beaten out of him by four slayers, while Luke defeated seven, and Force pwn3d an eighth? Granted, Kyp had 'less knowledge' of them, but if he'd been as great a tactical warrior and duelist as you claim, he should have been able to overcome this, and adapt to the situation rather quickly.

Obviously manipulating a dovin basal requires a great amount of force energy as even NJO Luke had a hard time doing it. Now, perhaps Kyp's saber skills are weaker, but his force mastery far exceeds anything we have ever seen Lord Hoth do.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Because he did it to a twenty-something, relatively inexperienced Luke as opposed to a sixty-something, battle-hardened, highly experienced Jedi warrior? Not to say that Luke wasn't powerful by this point, by Hoth would still pwn his ass.

So the Luke who defeated DE Sidious in sabercombat sucks? good one.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Alright. But that's Dark Kyp with the power of spirit Kun behind him. Now, he may have very well overcome Luke's fledging defenses, but it wasn't like Skywalker was willing to Force choke / throw his wayward apprentice, considering he was still trying to get him back to his senses.

Kyp is Dark almost all of the time. That's the whole NJO Jedi thing is that they use the darkside to make good things happen. Kyp at this point hd already stolen a ship and attacked and injured at least one of his students.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Erm, rude?

I must have been in a really bad mood or something. My apologies Janus.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Again; like Luke, Corran wasn't willing to go all out on Kyp. He may have begun to prepare himself for an attack, but I doubt that he was willing to hurt him.

And I suggest you re-read the quote:

"Kyp's previous attacks were like light breezes compared to with a full-out gale."

Apparently, his previous, unbolstered Force attacks were miniscule and weak in comparison to his Dark, amplified attacks, which were backed by the power of Exar Kun's spectre.

Ahem. . .

The other attacks were bolstered by Kun's power too. Kyp was under Exar's control at this moment.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Aren't you the one who just said that he was only a 'little bit stronger' than the God that is Corran?

Did I say Corran was really powerful at this point? In the NJO and beyond he is a beast and his decades of combat training makes him a capable fighter even at this point, but in the force both of them were weak at this time. Unless you call a student with about a month of training god.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
What's indicating that Kyp is? I know for a fact that he is often involved in counciling matters. And you're saying that a frontline general has only been a few duels. Please.

Proof that Hoth was a frontline general?

BTW, there are a good four years of the Yuuzhan Vong War before the Council was even formed.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Apprently you forget that I have stated that feats of a character, or certain things that it says they did, such as when it says, "Palpatine was pleased: one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time was born in pain and suffering, and it was his apprentice." Do you think that Darth Vader is really one of the more powerful Sith Lords of all time while in his suit(this is referring to when Palpatine tells Vader that Vader killed Padme in his anger, so it's mech-Vader). Warrior without peer is probably hyperbole since it said in the same article about Lord Hoth that he was one of the foremost Jedi of his era. While wouldn't it say that he was the downright best?

Wookipedia's hyperbole in Kyp's favor, 'almost rivaling Luke in Force and lightsaber ability', doesn't seem to be much in terms of feat, and I've seen you use those exact words before.

I wasn't counting wookiepedia's descriptions of people. Janus used a description on there of Hoth as proof, but I felt it to be hyperbole and stated why I thought so. I've said that Kyp rivals Luke in force powers, but saberskills? Maybe I was asleep when I typed that or something as even I have said that he is not. I said that DN Luke is better with just his weak hand then Kyp is using his preferred style, which you argued against when it helped your side. So what is it? Does DN Luke pwn Kyp in saber skills or does Kyp give him a hard time?

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
And Luke still pwns his ass in terms of 'feat wars'.

What are you talking about?

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Pfft. Please. You've shown nothing except for your biased, relatively unsupported opinion on several matters. I'll give you the JA points, which were valid and informative, but you've misused them on multiple fronts.

And you're keeping assumptions to a minimum? Lmfao!

'Since we don't know how Kyp killed the Leviathan, I'll use the most helpful and supportive method possible. He overpowered it!!'

And so what if he did? The thing's a dozen or so meters tall; the little children in Ewok Adventure killed a thirty meter tall Gorax. Props! They'd WTFpwn Darth Revan!!

If I thought Kyp overpowered it I would be arguing that he could kill Exar or Nadd. I don't because I know he isn't that strong.

Do you really thing that the Leviathans(there were two. He killed both the mother and the baby) were just a dozen meters tall? They are several hundred meters judging from the pictures I have seen of them. And you forget that these things were made to kill Jedi. They were made to kill Jedi from the Hundre-Year Darkness that had just as much experince and had fought just as long as Hoth. They were called superweapons from that time.

Actually, Glentract, I wasn't making an argument so much as I was pointing out how cocked up yours is... You are horribly biased, and next time you accuse me of not reading the source material, keep it civil. You don't -want- me to turn my full attention to you, Glentract. I've ripped you limb from limb before. Don't oblige me to do it again.

Janus, go ahead. Try and rip me apart on this. I know my stuff on these guys and I know I am right. I have to leave for a few days for school, hopefully I'll be back around on Thursday but probably not until late Friday, so you even get to have a big head start.

BTW, sorry about the source material. I must have been in a bad mood. I certainly didn't remember having been such as ass in that post.

I smell a ...ass kisser!

Calvin, please. Your posts have contributed absolutely nothing to this debate, so I suggest you cut the crap.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Obviously manipulating a dovin basal requires a great amount of force energy as even NJO Luke had a hard time doing it. Now, perhaps Kyp's saber skills are weaker, but his force mastery far exceeds anything we have ever seen Lord Hoth do.

I'm not denying that Kyp has more raw power than Hoth. But you make it seem like he'll wave his hand and pull a Traya.

And I suppose we'll have to wait until the Darth Bane novel for Hoth's power level.



I never said he sucked; I'm not that blunt. But I doubt that he'd be able to threaten Hoth at this point.



True. But the Jedi use the Dark Side with reservation. Kyp, at these points, began to use it without hesitation. And I recall you saying that at the time Kyp fought the four slayers much later, the Order was still hesitant to use the Dark Side.




Then why are you giving Kyp credit for the attack. . . ?

And why were they like 'light breezes' while the latter attack was like a 'full-force gale'?



Then Kyp -- Kun -- tossing Corran around shouldn't be much of an achievement, should it?



The first picture you find on a Google search. Certain logical inferences. The fact that he was a 'master tactician on the battlefield'.



I think Luke is certainly a great deal better than Kyp in any aspect of combat. But to think that he, with his right arm numb and his left hand his only choice, could defeat Kyp at his best, is absurd. With an ordinary one-handed style, he'd give Kyp a horrible time, and with two-hands, he'd own him.



This should be obvious. . .



Several hundred meters? Right. . .

And stop tossing around the term 'superweapon'. The Death Star was a superweapon, and it was destroyed by a farmboy who'd never flown an X-Wing.

The Jedi from the Hundred-Year Darkness may be good, and have a good bit of experience. But Hoth is legendary. And if this is Kyp around JA times who killed the beast, Hoth would slay it even more easily.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
I'm not denying that Kyp has more raw power than Hoth. But you make it seem like he'll wave his hand and pull a Traya.

And I suppose we'll have to wait until the Darth Bane novel for Hoth's power level.

I'm just saying Kyp will win. He's not going to pwn him, but Hoth is definately going to lose from what I have seen.

When's the Darth Bane novel coming out? It should be good.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
I never said he sucked; I'm not that blunt. But I doubt that he'd be able to threaten Hoth at this point.

I really don't see what makes you think that Hoth is that good. Other then experince, he doesn't have much on Kyp and if war experince alone was enough every single Knight should be able to take Windu.

Do you think that Hoth could have defeated DE Sidious in saber combat?Luke obviously is very capable at this point.


Originally posted by Darth Faunus
True. But the Jedi use the Dark Side with reservation. Kyp, at these points, began to use it without hesitation. And I recall you saying that at the time Kyp fought the four slayers much later, the Order was still hesitant to use the Dark Side.

They were playing with the idea. Kyp was putting his word behind it did a lot. After Jacen came back after Traitor the Jedi really began to embrace the idea, even Luke.

Luke was ready to fight Kyp though. Luke went out there to confront Kyp and turn him back to the light. We've seen that he is willing to fight even his own students because in one of the Young Jedi Knight books he was about to fight and probably kill Brakiss. And why wouldn't Luke have seen that attack in advance?

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Then why are you giving Kyp credit for the attack. . . ?

And why were they like 'light breezes' while the latter attack was like a 'full-force gale'?

Because Kyp did most of the work. It's wasn't like the first few attacks were all that Kyp could do and then the last one was what knocked Corran out. Exar added some of his power, but as I have already shown he didn't have much at this point.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Then Kyp -- Kun -- tossing Corran around shouldn't be much of an achievement, should it?

Yes, it is because Kyp had an amazing natural talent at absorbing attacks like that that Gantoris did not have. Without gaining much, if any power from this point, Corran was able to walk out of an explosion that vaporized at Hutt and most of a building. Gantoris was able to use telekinesis very well and other things like that. Gantoris was also mostly a lightsaber user rather then someone with capable force defenses like Corran.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
The first picture you find on a Google search. Certain logical inferences. The fact that he was a 'master tactician on the battlefield'.

And I suppose Ackbar, also a master tactician, is a frontline general too.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
I think Luke is certainly a great deal better than Kyp in any aspect of combat. But to think that he, with his right arm numb and his left hand his only choice, could defeat Kyp at his best, is absurd. With an ordinary one-handed style, he'd give Kyp a horrible time, and with two-hands, he'd own him.

Even though Kyp was able to defeat Luke on top of the Massassi Temple and later on Kyp was able to control a black hole more easily then Luke? Luke is better in lightsaber combat for sure, but Kyp could certainly give him a hard time in Force powers.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
This should be obvious. . .

Why are you referring to Luke being good in feat wars?

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Several hundred meters? Right. . .

And stop tossing around the term 'superweapon'. The Death Star was a superweapon, and it was destroyed by a farmboy who'd never flown an X-Wing.

The Jedi from the Hundred-Year Darkness may be good, and have a good bit of experience. But Hoth is legendary. And if this is Kyp around JA times who killed the beast, Hoth would slay it even more easily.

We've been over this before. I've shown pictures of them. They are huge. They are several hundred meters tall.

The Leviathans were made to kill Jedi. The Death Star wasn't made to fight X-wing starfighters. And, if the Leviathans were so easy to kill, why would the Sith Empire have used them against the Jedi so much?

What do you mean, "the Jedi from the Hundred Year Darkness may be good"? They must have been extremely powerful as Ragnos feared them. They were the only impression he had of the Republic and the Jedi and he feared the Republic. So you think Hoth would make Ragnos afraid to attack the Republic?

Saying that the Leviathan must be weak because Kyp beat it is stupid. That's like saying the people in Japan who died from the nuclear boms must have been weak because they died from something in it's infancy.

Just one tidbit- you're assuming that Hoth doesn't have any Force feats or saber mastery to compare to Kyp despite being more or less a head and shoulders above an entire jedi army during a time of jedi-sith conflict that is unparrelled. So apparently he was just some cowardly backroom general, Glentract? He couldn't lead his troops?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I'm just saying Kyp will win. He's not going to pwn him, but Hoth is definately going to lose from what I have seen.

When's the Darth Bane novel coming out? It should be good.

Actually, the Bane novel should be coming out this Fall.



I don't see what makes you think Kyp is that good. ON one thread, you claim he has substandard lightsaber abilities, while here, he can trounce the most powerful Jedi of an era.

Do I think DE Sidious would be defeated by Hoth in pure saber combat? I didn't. But considering that a comparative newb sliced his hand off, it's very likely that he would.



So they were 'playing' with the concept of a Potentium-based Order for over a decade?

Possibly. But turning him to the Light doesn't include the concept of killing him, now does it. Had Luke gone all out on Kyp, he would have annihilated him.



You haven't shown that at all. In fact, there was a point before that said the contrary. If Exar's power was so irrelevant, why were Kyp's previous attacks like "light breezes compared to full-out gale"? Did Kyp's power magically spike? Or did the other, inconceivable possibility occur?



I believe you mean Corran. And actually, Corran would not have conjured up that defense; where would he have redirected the energy?

And even if he did, and Kyp / Exar blasted through that too, it would have only been because of the amplified power granted by Kun's spirit.



Ackbar wasn't a renowned Jedi Master ina time of constant, Jedi vs. Sith warfare, now was he?





. . .

Nevermind.



We have gone over this, yes. And again, you're incorrect.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/JawaKing_987/YoungLeviathan.jpg

Does that look several hundred meters tall? Try two.

Now I can why this would have given you that impression:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/JawaKing_987/MotherLeviathan.jpg

But I assure, it's not that tall. Thirty or forty feet, fifty, tops. It only looks so tall because you're under the impression that it's far, far, away. It actually only looks that way because of the haze at its feet. Believe me. It's not that far away.

What do you mean, "the Jedi from the Hundred Year Darkness may be good"? They must have been extremely powerful as Ragnos feared them. They were the only impression he had of the Republic and the Jedi and he feared the Republic. So you think Hoth would make Ragnos afraid to attack the Republic?



Did I say it was weak? No, I didn't. But you make it seem like it'd own Coruscant or something.

And Japan? Nothing like this, analogies or otherwise.

Unfortunately Hoth will not be in the book as it takes place after the battle of Ruusan.

Dude you know how comics are. I'm sure if one about Lord Hoth came out, he would be able to do things as unrealistic and incredible as killing a Leviathan.