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I have read several of your statements and replies and threads on these two TITANS going at it. I'm not sure if half of you guys are just on Superman's cock or if you truly are idiots. I love Superman....but come on... He wouldn't even stand a chance. He was born strong, he didn't earn anything. He never trained. He knows no martial arts. And he has a weakness. Goku knows martial arts, he has trained his whole life which is why he gets more powerful. And he gets stronger as the battle goes on. He literally feeds off rage and anger. He has instant transmission.........much faster than some guy with a cape flying. I also think its kinda funny when something like this is posted, there seems to always be a line crossed through the topic. What supermanfanfag is doing that? And who was the dummy that said DBZ shouldn't be in this forum? Don't get jealous b/c Superman is a little lower on the totum pole than other more powerful superheroes with no weaknesses, like green rocks. lol I'm really not writing this to be debated. This is more MATTER OF FACT. Superman Post, Superman Pre, Superman Crisis, Superman Prime, Superman PreThis,Post that....etc...whatever.....would just get CRUSHED by Goku. Hell, Majin-Buu and half of the other hero/villians from DBZ would whup him too. The problem with DBZ and GT is that the characters are almost too strong....to unbelievable. But hey, that's just AWESOME! I mean seriously, if you guys truly read or watch DBZ......you know what I'm talking about. I mean you could take the HULK, the Silver Surfer, Thor, Flash, Spiderman, a Jedi(lol) and put them all together and Goku would still whuppp the piss out of them at the same time. And for those of you, who want to argue? You're just in denial.....PEACE

Yes, Goku would beat Superman quite handily.

But I'm sorry to say that this thread will prolly get deleted.

Hmm...

I have 153 episodes of DBZ on dvd....

Now tell me one instance where Goku or anyone else does anything comparable to Pre-Crisis Superman's feats....

Please?

Where did the idea come from that DBZ characters were so godly anyway? Their top feats are blowing up planets which takes about 5 episodes of groaning...err, "powering up" to pull off.

lol!

Correct, Mr Ion - my good friend!

"HHHHNNNNN!!!! Hang on a sec Superman, be ready to attack you in a minute... HHHHNNNNN!!!!"

"MY GOD....I...I CAN FEEL HIS POWER! IT'S OUT OF THIS WORLD!!"

"RRRAAAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!! FAAAARTT!!! Whoops.. I followed through...."

well if you seen the episodes; you'd know Raditz is at level 1,200 and had faster than light quickness noted by Goku himself.


SS Gokou is at what ? 3,000,000.


Weak, insect Cell took an atomic bomb head-on and it didnt effect him one bit.

Speed never seemed to change throughout the series. They moved like a blur at the beginning and moved like a blur in the end.

Instant translocation according to Goku was moving at the speed of light. He became photons!

His power is so mind boggling............AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by dvampire
How is Goku going to hurt Superman when he could barly push a moutain apart inssj2 or ssj4 when he struggled with pushing a building in place and having trouble lifting people on a small rock? Superman whould destroy Goku in a sec.

Here's ssj2 Goku struggling to push a moutain apart, something Superman was doing ten years ago.

http://myfavoritegames.com/dragonball-z/Media/Video_Clips/VideoClips.htm

Here's Superman's feats.

Supes is using his Heat Vision to get the foe off of him.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5001/supes8cz.jpg

Supes shoots a beam of low-intensity Heat Vision at the Moon. People in the watch tower was blinded except for Plastic Man cause sense he had shades on. The Moon is very far from Earth, this shows the range Supes Heat Vision has.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9708/supermansheatvision24vv.jpg

In this pic it shows that Supes Heat Vision stated by them, "his vision is off the charts by any standard scientific measures". They can measure how hot a star is, but they cannot measure the temp of Supermans Heat Vision.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg

In this pic his power is waning under a red sun, but he still summoned enough Heat Vision to successfully power Jor-ELs planet-moving ion engines. The in this case had a mass 16 times that of Earth's.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6824/supermansheatvision17gy.jpg

In this pic, Superman is flying by the sun to stop the Cannabal planet from destroying the sun. This also prove that Supes is able to blow up a planet aswell. He also heated up a plaent with his Heat Vision before too.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7923/supermansheatvison2np.jpg

Superman calculating the guys melting point. Wich also shows how much he holds back with his Heat Vision, to keep from killing his foes.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8360/08222005124926pm7ji.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3679/08222005125029pm5zg.jpg

Supes just spraying this guy with Heat Vision. If he wanted to, he could kill Goku easily with Heat Vision, without even letting him even breath.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1535/0822311an.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1271/0822323nz.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3776/0822338uf.jpg

Superman can also blind his opponent or just lobotimize his foe with Heat Vision. If he was fighting to kill without holding back there's no telling what he'll do.

Here's proof that Supes is light speed, and is far faster than any DBZ/GT character.

Superman catching bullets with little effort. This is something the DBZ/Gt characters can do also though.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/7786/08222005050314pm5fl.jpg

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/530/supermancatchingbullets2ww.jpg

Here's Superman reading at high speeds (something Goku or any of the DBZ/GT characters ever done).

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/4955/superman1451ba.jpg

Superman fighting at high speeds.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/4530/08222005115613am7bx.jpg

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/679/08222005124311pm3un.jpg

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9203/pics0017bn.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/4214/superman20speed20vs20mongul202.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9558/supermanandmongul8pr.jpg

Here's Superman vibrating (phasing) his body so fast that hes going right through Doomsday Lightning/Fire Breath. This is proof that hes far faster than any DBZ/GT character.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

Here's Superman vibrating his body invisible now, something they also can't do either.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/553/supermaninvisible44zc.jpg

Here's Superman calculating how fast to go on Earths Surface in populated areas. He also plug Lois them ears with cotton while he flew through.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9101/0869a916yt.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/704/08222005052719pm2ys.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8281/08222005052832pm2wo.jpg

Lois asks Superman for Champagne from another contry, and by the time she finishes her short sentence, Supes already got it, and has been waiting for a while.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5899/supespeed6kt.jpg

Superman traveling at high speeds in space.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1831/supermanhaulingassagain37xc.jpg

Superman heres GL (Kyle) about a million miles away from Earth in bed, and he gets there in seconds.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1954/08222005054558pm3oy.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2785/08222005054722pm5jq.jpg

Here's Superman taking Darksied to the sun in seconds. It takes light 8 minutes to get from Earth to the Sun.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5590/darksiedbeaten7sq.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6573/darksiedbeaten25ph.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/192/supermanbatman13pg08097cu.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1609/supermanbatman13pg109es.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5647/supermanbatman13pg114cl.jpg

Superman is far stronger too, as is always holding back. Superman hits Lobo from Earth into orbit, Lobo stats that if he doesn't stop himself that he'll spend the next century obitting around the planet.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4643/supeslobo0uo.jpg

Superman and G. Zod blows are so devastating that they are creating earthquakes and the planet is falling apart. And he was still holding back while fighting under a red sun.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9351/08302005032341pm7oo.jpg

Here's Supes when hes done pulling his punches.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3613/cy14oq.jpg

Here's Superman holding a black hole in the palm of his hand for a while.
Which makes him far stronger than than Goku.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9199/supermanblackhole0015ak.jpg

Here's Superman taking several particle beams.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/60/09122118lq.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/3651/durability55et.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/3443/09131329ai.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/4640/durability20ki.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1761/durability35ln.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9263/211117fk.jpg

Superman taking a blast equal to a million nuclear blasts.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/850/0822346hj.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/3932/08222005121910pm8yp.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6301/089054127na.jpg

Superman surviving the destruction of a sun eater at ground zero. The sun eater is an enormously energetic cloud that literally eats both the energy and mass of whole stars. The sun eater was considerably larger than a star, had been in existence for millenia and had consumed the energy of many stars by travelling from galaxy to galaxy. Which proves that he's far more durable than any DBZ/GT character.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/7467/09122005080012pm3uo.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/4746/09122005080419pm3ri.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/7775/durability49cp.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/851/durability11pn.jpg

Here's Superman actually escaping a double black hole (which beats every feat ssj3/4 Goku or any DBZ/GT character has ever done), this proves his strength, speed, and durability.

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/4198/untitled128qt3bk.jpg

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5858/untitled138wy8fy.jpg

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5207/untitled140kt3ew.jpg

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/938/untitled152oe8eq.jpg

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8946/untitled166ov4wo.jpg

Superman has ssj3/4 Goku in strength, speed, durability, and stamina. Goku loses.

Supes wins!!!!!

supes comic book 'feats' dont stack up..

what kind of show would it be if the fights lasted 20 seconds?


noone can tell how fast their going; truth is their going at ridiculous speeds-- but thats why it looks the same, for dramatic and to keep the viewers happy.



from dbz official site
Gohan fights with Cell, the battle ends with the winner Gohan. But Cell gets so mad that he self-destructs and blow up the whole Solar System. He blows up killing both Goku and Kaiosama.

after a tough battle with goku, perfect cell with the last reserves of his energy makes a solar-system destroying blast, then regenerates from that. Not only surving, but becoming more powerful!

Episode #179 Free The Future.

Cell returns to fight the last remaining z fighters; SS 2 Gohan later destroyed cell completely--to where he couldnt regenerate--meaning his blasts HAD to be more powerful in intensity than a solar-system destroying blast.

superman cant go for a sun dip


a higher end super-saiyan Goku, Gohan, Vegeta etc >> Supes.

Where did that quote come from? I just looked for it at the official DBZ site and they defined it as planet destroying which is what it was. Gohan's final blast just left a huge crater. Not seeing any solar system busters.

What, the first fifty Goku vs. Superman threads weren't good enough for you people?

"Now tell me one instance where Goku or anyone else does anything comparable to Pre-Crisis Superman's feats....

Please"


Power to blow planets isent comparable? Pre crisis Superman didnt do THOSE every issue you know.

Defeating Buu and Broli that wiped out more than just planets isent bad id say.



"Where did the idea come from that DBZ characters were so godly anyway? Their top feats are blowing up planets which takes about 5 episodes of groaning...err, "powering up" to pull off."


Not in the Manga. Different languages of communication.

Originally posted by olympian
Power to blow planets isent comparable? Pre crisis Superman didnt do THOSE every issue you know.

Nope.

But he survived multiple planet-smashing attacks without a scratch.

If it's not red-solar energy, Kryptonite or Magic.... then it's NOT harming pre-crisis Supes.

That's a fact.

I have many many Pre-Crisis Superman comics and the only times he ever bleeds are when under the effect of Red Sol energy.

Nothing that the DBZ characters can pull out of their asses will be able to even scratch him.

In this fight he is for all intents and purposes - Invulnerable.

Plus, he can fly across the entire UNIVERSE instantly.

Has the raw strength to defeat Black Holes.

Can BLOW entire STARS with a single gust of Super-breath.

He's on another level compared to DBZ.

Dragon Ball Z is so lame it's soooo ridiculous

those last 3 post, right after eachother..are ****ing gold.

lol

I have no doubt in my mind that the thread starter created this thread at me, as he clearly and blatantly but indirectly references me cause he hasn't the guts to call me out cause he knows i pak deadly ammo, but what I have written before still stands with me now, dude.

We're not saying Goku's not strong, the dumb ox is strong as hell, we're just saying that he cannot defeat Superman in combat. And I state that as a fact that I've always backed up with proof in the form of what he can do and is capable of in reference to his abilities.

I don't exaggerate characters like Godofall, who himself seems to be quite the character, comically speaking, lol especially when he wrote that if Goku's so much as sneezes, he can blow up Earth, lol please.. Anything to crush Superman hu? Even if it means magically creating a Super Saiyin 10 and risking the embarrassment.

Time and time again the Goku (and dbz) obsessors are always outnumbered here, and the one who open DBZ threads get them closed. It's cyclic. But funny cause it just goes to show, you know..

I'm not arguing this topic again...lol

Goku would win and I'm tired of repeating myself in 100 different threads as to why (even though its pretty obvious)

There is one thing I wanna address however. I find it amusing that the unwavering Supes fanboys IMMEDIATELY go to Pre-Crisis Supes when Goku is mentioned. Why? Because current Superman would get bitched slapped by Goku.

So Though I'm tired of arguing this, AT LEAST, thread creator, specify what Superman were talking about.

Because its like this:

Superman Prime>> Goku
Pre-Crisis Superman>> Goku
Goku>> Post-Crisis Superman

And really when we say "Superman" in todays terms in I'd assume its referring to Post-Crisis (current) Superman, unless a Different version is specified. And current Superman would get killed by Goku's sneeze.

lol wow, just, wow..

Talk about being inconspicuous.

But anyway if anything, i'll take it that last line was made in pure jest merely to provoke me. It's no use, we just have different views, with yours being the flawed one, but to each his own.

Theres a Goku vs. Superman thread in the Game Vs Forum that's 165 pages long.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
lol wow, just, wow..

Talk about being inconspicuous.

But anyway if anything, i'll take it that last line was made in pure jest merely to provoke me. It's no use, we just have different views, with yours being the flawed one, but to each his own.

Right...ok then...

You guys are funny, but not being very realistic. Superman can't even fight. Lol...He knows absolutely no self defense and has never had any training in the art of fighting and knows absolutely no martial arts. That's why he's kinda weak. Remember, his power was GIVEN. "Nothing given has any value." It should be earned. To be really honest.........i don't know. I guess it would be really close. Could go either way, its just that Goku has had soooo much training in so many different avenues...and when he gets pissed and weakened....he gets even stronger. KAAAMMMEEEEEHHHAAAAMMEEEEEHHHAAA!! Superman would get it.........

i never get tired of these.


Anyway I never seen anything Goku can do that Superman can't. and Superman does now at least some martial arts.

It's not like Goku ever uses his. scream energy blast fast punch kick perry. repeat 2341341411 times.

We're all forgetting a very basic fact.
Superman doesn't need to stop to power up or build up anything.

martial arts are you kiding me, please dont make my dick laugh. WHen you move at near light speed, Fly, virtually indestructable,artic breath and shoot heat out of your damn eyes what the hell do you need martial arts for what Tae bo please we are not talking about batman this is Supes for christ sakes. You know what happens when you get hit by a being with a power level that in my opinon really has close to no limits and can will himself to do just about anything, you cease to exist.

Originally posted by chris_64256
martial arts are you kiding me, please dont make my dick laugh. WHen you move at near light speed, Fly, virtually indestructable,artic breath and shoot heat out of your damn eyes what the hell do you need martial arts for what Tae bo please we are not talking about batman this is Supes for christ sakes. You know what happens when you get hit by a being with a power level that in my opinon really has close to no limits and can will himself to do just about anything, you cease to exist.


dude you are so right.

Dude superman is better than goku i like goku but we all do respect goku needs a space ship to travel to diffent plants and his constantly dieng and always has to fuse to beat weak ppl like sin shenron and omega

gt is not cannon. Freiza breaths in space and survived the big planet namek explosion after using all his energy ifighting goku and being ripped in half. That said...supes wins

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
We're all forgetting a very basic fact.
Superman doesn't need to stop to power up or build up anything.
That's the cartoon...............

Originally posted by thesilverspider
That's the cartoon...............

Goku does it in the manga too and loses alot of energy the higher the transformation, especailly in ssj3.

How long can good old ssj3 goku last against Superman(the one on earth 1 I think not the killer mother super that just came out in the portal and wants to kill everyones ass ?)

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
How long can good old ssj3 goku last against Superman(the one on earth 1 I think not the killer mother super that just came out in the portal and wants to kill everyones ass ?)

Goku in ssj3 could only last a few minutes since he's was mortal, it takes up alot of energy.

Originally posted by dvampire
Goku in ssj3 could only last a few minutes since he's was mortal, it takes up alot of energy.

So he won't die with one punch and how about undead Goku ssj3..can he do the job.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
So he won't die with one punch and how about undead Goku ssj3..can he do the job.

Honestly, I think Superman whould smash ssj3 Goku face if he through a punch at full power IMO.

Originally posted by dvampire
Honestly, I think Superman whould smash ssj3 Goku face if he through a punch at full power IMO. not fully charged ssj3 goku dead one so he doesn't loose energy in 5 seconds. well this depend which superman we are talking about shock some can sneeze and dc,marvel,dbz are whiped out.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
not fully charged ssj3 goku dead one so he doesn't loose energy in 5 seconds. well this depend which superman we are talking about shock some can sneeze and dc,marvel,dbz are whiped out.

I'm sorry, I meant, I honestly think Post-crsis (current) Superman whould smash ssj3 Goku (maxed) face if he through a punch at full power IMO.

Originally posted by dvampire
I'm sorry, I meant, I honestly think Post-crsis (current) Superman whould smash ssj3 Goku (maxed) face if he through a punch at full power IMO.

you would be right.

Originally posted by Jose123
you would be right.

Thank you!

Originally posted by dvampire
I'm sorry, I meant, I honestly think Post-crsis (current) Superman whould smash ssj3 Goku (maxed) face if he through a punch at full power IMO.

Yeah but we know that gokus power really comes from the ki energy thing and the ssj3 arua around him all the time allows him to take thos ecrazy punches. Kind of like Green laterns ring around the human. If that is down one punch will go through his head.

and no I didn't say goku beats superman but explained how he could take some punches.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
Yeah but we know that gokus power really comes from the ki energy thing and the ssj3 arua around him all the time allows him to take thos ecrazy punches. Kind of like Green laterns ring around the human. If that is down one punch will go through his head.

or supse melts him with his heat vision.



Fight over.

Originally posted by Jose123
or supse melts him with his heat vision.



Fight over. i didn't say goku won at all in my post now did I. Also depending what Supes it is, Gokus energy.arua/ssj3 arua can stand up to a certain version of heat vission for a while.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
i didn't say goku won at all in my post now did I. Also depending what Supes it is, Gokus energy.arua/ssj3 arua can stand up to a certain version of heat vission for a while.

How so? Can Goku stand up to the sun? Has he ever shown being able to stand up to anything that powerfull?

No trying to start a argument or anything. i really want to know.

Originally posted by Jose123
How so? Can Goku stand up to the sun? Has he ever shown being able to stand up to anything that powerfull?

No trying to start a argument or anything. i really want to know. Keywords

DEPENDING what Supes it is, Gokus energy.arua/ssj3 arua can stand up to a certain VERSIONS of heat vission for a while.

Goku could win The guy is much faster and actually fights at light speed with great skill at that.

Just think about it is Goku really gonna get hit with supes flying right up to him with his right hook.

Not to sure about that one.

And no Dvamp I didn't say goku wins so don't attack me.............

Most Goku vs. superman fights should end like this

http://www.nexopia.com/forumviewthread.php?tid=1553296

With the Goku side closing the topic down after they begin losing.

Just keep reading to the second page when wally west appears and starts supporting his reasons for why superman would win..

That was an awesome owning by Wally West there lol

I agree!

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
Yeah but we know that gokus power really comes from the ki energy thing and the ssj3 arua around him all the time allows him to take thos ecrazy punches. Kind of like Green laterns ring around the human. If that is down one punch will go through his head.

and no I didn't say goku beats superman but explained how he could take some punches.

The energy also drains him of his power, so he won't be wasting useful energy like that. And Superman has fought beings that were made out of pure energy and won. He also fights people like Captain Marvel and Black Adam, both of there bodies are covered with magical lighting, Superman never seems to have any probelms hitting them. I've also seen Goku get badly wounded by punches and kicks by beings far from Superman in strength even with energy around him, Superman whould have no problem doing the same.

Originally posted by thesilverspider
Goku could win The guy is much faster and actually fights at light speed with great skill at that.

Just think about it is Goku really gonna get hit with supes flying right up to him with his right hook.

Not to sure about that one.

And no Dvamp I didn't say goku wins so don't attack me.............

Goku doesn't fight at light speed, not even close. Nobody in DBZ does. Superman uses skill and his speed in battle.

Superman also can fight at high speeds and is faster than Goku (respect thread, go to it).

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
Keywords

DEPENDING what Supes it is, Gokus energy.arua/ssj3 arua can stand up to a certain VERSIONS of heat vission for a while.

Superman's Heat Vision is hotter than Stars, his Heat Vision whould melt ssj3 Goku on contact if he goes all out.

Originally posted by dvampire
The energy also drains him of his power, so he won't be wasting useful energy like that. And Superman has fought beings that were made out of pure energy and won. He also fights people like Captain Marvel and Black Adam, both of there bodies are covered with magical lighting, Superman never seems to have any probelms hitting them. I've also seen Goku get badly wounded by punches and kicks by beings far from Superman in strength even with energy around him, Superman whould have no problem doing the same.

sure it drains him and I also seen gokus arua when charged up, people can't even get through it. When cell became perfect form, phsyical attacks and detructo disk didn't hurt him and this was krillin and trunks hitting him.


Where did I say Goku beats superman in this thread stop trying to argue

Originally posted by dvampire
Superman's Heat Vision is hotter than Stars, his Heat Vision whould melt ssj3 Goku on contact if he goes all out. every version of superman like stated in my post



I got to delete stuff on my cpu so i could dload all the dbz eps again. I forget some.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
sure it drains him and I also seen gokus arua when charged up, people can't even get through it. When cell became perfect form, phsyical attacks and detructo disk didn't hurt him and this was krillin and trunks hitting him.


Where did I say Goku beats superman in this thread stop trying to argue

Kirillin, Trunks, and Cell are far from being in Superman league. Buu was able to get through Goku's and Vegeta's arua. Superman whould have no problem getting through.

I don't care if you didn't say it or not, I'm going to debate if something just don't sound right to me.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
every version of superman like stated in my post



I got to delete stuff on my cpu so i could dload all the dbz eps again. I forget some.

What do you mean every version?

Anyways, I'm only using Post-Crisis Superman.

I have all the DBZ epsoides and manga.

If you want, I could post scans from the manga.

Originally posted by dvampire
What do you mean every version?

Anyways, I'm only using Post-Crisis Superman.

I have all the DBZ epsoides and manga.

If you want, I could post scans from the manga. I had all the dbz episodes but something went wrong. I need them again and I have a decent amount of the manga.

I mean if superman goes all out and goes crazy with heat vission then yes it should eat people but goku can do a quick Kamehameha blast to counter it and yes the kamehamehas been from earth all the way to the sun which is a while and pretty quick. Also well the only heat feats oku shown was one when he was with the vampire girlson snake way and he was in the bath and they said it would of melted normal men(this is goku befor ehe got training from king kia(the weakest goku) I forget how hot it was...unless that was a filler ep...then another one is goku on Namek when he was sjj and the barrier was up and swiped away namek lava(god knows how hot namek lava is but the planet is the biggest planet and how many suns around it because it's always day) . Then tehre is when freiza beat on him and through him in the lava without a barrir and then people thought he died because the earths magma(hotter than lava) from the core busted out on goku..but duh he is ssj so he didn't die at all. There are many and better others but eh I need to watch eps again..I will get back to u.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
I had all the dbz episodes but something went wrong. I need them again and I have a decent amount of the manga.

I mean if superman goes all out and goes crazy with heat vission then yes it should eat people but goku can do a quick Kamehameha blast to counter it and yes the kamehamehas been from earth all the way to the sun which is a while and pretty quick. Also well the only heat feats oku shown was one when he was with the vampire girlson snake way and he was in the bath and they said it would of melted normal men(this is goku befor ehe got training from king kia(the weakest goku) I forget how hot it was...unless that was a filler ep...then another one is goku on Namek when he was sjj and the barrier was up and swiped away namek lava(god knows how hot namek lava is but the planet is the biggest planet and how many suns around it because it's always day) . Then tehre is when freiza beat on him and through him in the lava without a barrir and then people thought he died because the earths magma(hotter than lava) from the core busted out on goku..but duh he is ssj so he didn't die at all. There are many and better others but eh I need to watch eps again..I will get back to u.

What's up Twister, I didn't notice it was you at first!

Kamehameha wave takes to long, by the time he finish he'll be dead. Lava doesn't come close to the tempatures of stars or anything hotter than it (like Superman's Heat Vision).

Originally posted by dvampire
What's up Twister, I didn't notice it was you!

Kamehameha wave takes to long, by the time he finish he'll be dead. Lava doesn't come close to the tempatures of stars or anything hotter than it (like Superman's Heat Vision). Magma is way hotter and the crap in the core of namek and no one prooved that it is the same heat as earth. you don't know that namek is hotter since it is way bigger of a planet, and has like 8 suns around it so it's always day.

Kamehame wave doesn't always take that long..only in the show..in the manga it doesn't take that long at all unless he is trying to blow up a planet then he has to charge it. Also when they shoot it off the side of the planet so it won't blow up, it travels very far all the way to the sun at times, and you can see it from space on where they charged shot it from so

Also yes it is twister..didn't the sig, give it away

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
Magma is way hotter and the crap in the core of namek and no one prooved that it is the same heat as earth. you don't know that namek is hotter since it is way bigger of a planet, and has like 8 suns around it so it's always day.



Also yes it is twister..didn't the sig, give it away

That still doesn't prove that it's as hot as the sun.

Not at first, but now I know!

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja

Kamehame wave doesn't always take that long..only in the show..in the manga it doesn't take that long at all unless he is trying to blow up a planet then he has to charge it. Also when they shoot it off the side of the planet so it won't blow up, it travels very far all the way to the sun at times, and you can see it from space on where they charged shot it from so

Even in the manga it still takes some time to charge, Superman isn't going to stand there. Kamehameha wave doesn't travel at light speed, if it did, Goku's Kamehameha wave whould have hit Raditz when he was trying to out run it.

Originally posted by dvampire
That still doesn't prove that it's as hot as the sun.

Not at first, but now I know!

Yeah. sun gets hotter then any core of any life sustaining planet or any planet for that matter. It could have 30 suns surrounding it and be 10 times the size of earth and it still wouldn't be as hot as the sun at the core

Originally posted by dvampire
That still doesn't prove that it's as hot as the sun.

Not at first, but now I know!

didn't say it was as hot as the sun lol. In my other post i said it will melt him if it toched him from a full powered supes. i just said that if he just shoots like he use to like little rays then goku can stand it for a while. Also it could be hot as it wants to be but Barrier is not skin if he puts one up. As for the force of the heat vission well goku takes blasts alot and his barrir(when he does use it) holds up.

oh yeah show me again where it says his heat vission is xx amount hotter than the sun ? I keep missing it.

Originally posted by Jose123
Yeah. sun gets hotter then any core of any life sustaining planet or any planet for that matter. It could have 30 suns surrounding it and be 10 times the size of earth and it still wouldn't be as hot as the sun at the core

yeah because you know how hot the magma is on a make believe planet namelk

didn't say it's hotter than the sun though. Like dvamp said no proof biut like I said i was prooving something else.

why can't goku instant transmission away from the heat vission. When superman goe sall out and does the Big heat vission it is not faster than light. Also goku did the Itm(instant trans) in a sec when cell shot at him and cell said you shouldn't of had the time to dodge that attack at such close range so how did you do it ggoku...goku says oh technique. It's not like goku is instant transmitting to some where very far, where he would have to locate it first. He sees whoever right in front of him so he could go like that right behind him quicker than quick to dodge heat vissiion.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
yeah because you know how hot the magma is on a make believe planet namelk

didn't say it's hotter than the sun though. Like dvamp said no proof biut like I said i was prooving something else.

Magma is liquid hot rock. Not a Nuclear reactor.

You can atomically guess which is going to be hotter. No matter what planet it may be on.

Originally posted by Jose123
Magma is liquid hot rock. Not a Nuclear reactor.

You can atomically guess which is going to be hotter. No matter what planet it may be on. magma is hot while near the core and it's called lava when it cools and shoots out the volcano or what ever and no I didn't say it's greater than the sun or supes vission. Don't twist my words around

Originally posted by Jose123
Yeah. sun gets hotter then any core of any life sustaining planet or any planet for that matter. It could have 30 suns surrounding it and be 10 times the size of earth and it still wouldn't be as hot as the sun at the core

Agreed!

Originally posted by dvampire
Agreed! *runs to look how hot an imaginary planet called namek is* wait it's not real so you can't assume anything

also no one said it is greater than sun and supe vission.

also again where did it say again how hot the supes vission is ? and by how much ?

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
why can't goku instant transmission away from the heat vission. When superman goe sall out and does the Big heat vission it is not faster than light. Also goku did the Itm(instant trans) in a sec when cell shot at him and cell said you shouldn't of had the time to dodge that attack at such close range so how did you do it ggoku...goku says oh technique. It's not like goku is instant transmitting to some where very far, where he would have to locate it first. He sees whoever right in front of him so he could go like that right behind him quicker than quick to dodge heat vissiion.

why can't he instant transmission? because it takes time and concentration. even if he can do within a second it's still not fast enough that supse can't hit him Not to mention being Heat visioned or getting your face smacked around is going to mess up your concentration.

not to mention supse is faster then him. way faster.

Originally posted by Jose123
why can't he instant transmission? because it takes time and concentration. even if he can do within a second it's still not fast enough that supse can't hit him Not to mention being Heat visioned or getting your face smacked around is going to mess up your concentration.

not to mention supse is faster then him. way faster.

omg I just said it goes in a sec like the cell example. the only reason it EVER took long is when he had to concentrate when he was going very far away not across the street.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
didn't say it was as hot as the sun lol. In my other post i said it will melt him if it toched him from a full powered supes. i just said that if he just shoots like he use to like little rays then goku can stand it for a while. Also it could be hot as it wants to be but Barrier is not skin if he puts one up. As for the force of the heat vission well goku takes blasts alot and his barrir(when he does use it) holds up.

oh yeah show me again where it says his heat vission is xx amount hotter than the sun ? I keep missing it.

Goku can withstand Heat Vision depening on how much Superman holds back.

What barrier are you talking about that Goku uses?

Go to the Superman respect thread, there's feats laying around every where.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
omg I just said it goes in a sec like the cell example. the only reason it EVER took long is when he had to concentrate when he was going very far away not across the street.

Which he would have to do to get away from supse and the heat vison.

Otherwise he still gets hit.


supse can do a lot in less then a second.

Originally posted by dvampire
Goku can withstand Heat Vision depening on how much Superman holds back.

What barrier are you talking about that Goku uses?

Go to the Superman respect thread, there's feats laying around every where.

Goku used one against freiza before. He used an arua against the ginyu force which was not a barrir lik ethe freiza one. Well if you remember the history of trunks when gohan did it to block blasts or brolly did it for blasts is just an example on what it looked like when goku did it to freiza.

also i looke din the thread and it shows picks, but never showed how hot it was. Never ever showed how hot it was so i am asking you where does it say it is hotter than the sun ?

Originally posted by Jose123
Which he would have to do to get away from supse and the heat vison.

Otherwise he still gets hit.


supse can do a lot in less then a second.

good because thats how long Itm takes..less than a sec when supes is so close so he doesn't need to even concentrate just think over there. Think how nightcrawler does it but way faster(light speed).

Show me where supes did a full powered heat vission and then magically went the speed of light once the person dodged it at the speed of light... Supes woouldn't know he even dodged it sinse it's itm at close range...yes he can dodge heat vission. where did your punches come from when we are discussiong if goku can dodge heat vission ?

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
why can't goku instant transmission away from the heat vission. When superman goe sall out and does the Big heat vission it is not faster than light. Also goku did the Itm(instant trans) in a sec when cell shot at him and cell said you shouldn't of had the time to dodge that attack at such close range so how did you do it ggoku...goku says oh technique. It's not like goku is instant transmitting to some where very far, where he would have to locate it first. He sees whoever right in front of him so he could go like that right behind him quicker than quick to dodge heat vissiion.

Because IT takes time to use. Heat Vision is light speed, even an low intensity blasts was able to go to the moon and it was trailling behind Flash also. Heat Vision also comes out very fast, Goku won't be able to dodge.

It took time before Goku teleported away from Cells Kamehameha wave, Superman isn't going to let Goku just teleport. Even if Goku does though, he'll just be wasting more energy.

Originally posted by dvampire
Because IT takes time to use. Heat Vision is light speed, even an low intensity blasts was able to go to the moon and it was trailling behind Flash also. Heat Vision also comes out very fast, Goku won't be able to dodge.

It took time before Goku teleported away from Cells Kamehameha wave, Superman isn't going to let Goku just teleport. Even if Goku does though, he'll just be wasting more energy.

No..in the manga he did it instantly and it didn't take no time sinse cell was right there....

Also how many times you seen the blasts from any dbz character go through space in an instant. Most go to the sun or past it very quickily when they show the view from space...

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
Goku used one against freiza before. He used an arua against the ginyu force which was not a barrir lik ethe freiza one. Well if you remember the history of trunks when gohan did it to block blasts or brolly did it for blasts is just an example on what it looked like when goku did it to freiza.

also i looke din the thread and it shows picks, but never showed how hot it was. Never ever showed how hot it was so i am asking you where does it say it is hotter than the sun ?

How many do they use it though? Goku isn't going to costantly waste energy trying to protect himself. Movies aren't cannon.

So maybe you should keep looking then (even though you've seen them before).

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
No..in the manga he did it instantly and it didn't take no time sinse cell was right there....

Also how many times you seen the blasts from any dbz character go through space in an instant. Most go to the sun or past it very quickily when they show the view from space...

It did take time, he has to place his hand on his head and think of a KI signature, that's going to happen in a fight against Superman who will be attacking.

Goku's Kamehameha wave wasn't light speed when he shot it at Raditz or Cells when when he was chasing Goku into the air with it.

Originally posted by dvampire
Or maybe you're saying the same stuff that DBZ fanboys say all the time without bringing kind of proof.

that sums it up.

Originally posted by dvampire
It did take time, he has to place his hand on his head and think of a KI signature, that's going to happen in a fight against Superman who will be attacking.

Goku's Kamehameha wave wasn't light speed when he shot it at Raditz or Cells when when he was chasing Goku into the air with it.

Wrong about the IT thing. Goku dosent have to concentrate very hard. He can move without "placing his hand on his head" if he feels like it.

This is showen a few times. Goku does it against Cell and later Vegitto does it against Buu.

Originally posted by dvampire
Or maybe you're saying the same stuff that DBZ fanboys say all the time without bringing kind of proof. Superman is greater than ssj3 Goku in strength, speed, durability, and stamina.

what "proof" do you want?

Oh and Im hardly a DBZ fanboy, if anything I'm a Superman fanboy.

Originally posted by dvampire
How many do they use it though? Goku isn't going to costantly waste energy trying to protect himself. Movies aren't cannon.

So maybe you should keep looking then (even though you've seen them before).


Umm I KNOW movies are not cannon I was showing you on what it looks like sinse you don't remember him using one against freiza.

Waste energy ? it didn't waste any to put up the barrier and it came instantly. How often does he uses it ? how often does superman use half his shit lol this match is all out. Half the goku matches as well he is not even fighting his fullest, he is always playing like they said until lik ethe last ep or manga page.


no you never showed me. all you did was show picks of heat vission melting things and thats all thats in the thread. Everywhere I asked you to proove it's hotter than the sun, you aviod it some how ? just please show me again(you never showed me the first time) but by some chance you did, why don't you show me where it says it ? and not just assuming from the pics ?

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Wrong about the IT thing. Goku dosent have to concentrate very hard. He can move without "placing his hand on his head" if he feels like it.

This is showen a few times. Goku does it against Cell and later Vegitto does it against Buu.

It does take time, Goku has never teleported in mid battle. Why didn't he use it while fighting Cell or Kid Buu in battle (when I say battle, I mean in close combat). It whouldn't matter anyways, Superman is used to faceing teleporters, Goku will just be lose energy.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
what "proof" do you want?

Oh and Im hardly a DBZ fanboy, if anything I'm a Superman fanboy.

I'm still waiting for that proof though.

Originally posted by dvampire
It did take time, he has to place his hand on his head and think of a KI signature, that's going to happen in a fight against Superman who will be attacking.

Goku's Kamehameha wave wasn't light speed when he shot it at Raditz or Cells when when he was chasing Goku into the air with it. nope he does not have to place his hands anywhere..how he do it while charging a kamehameha then ?

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
*runs to look how hot an imaginary planet called namek is* wait it's not real so you can't assume anything

also no one said it is greater than sun and supe vission.

also again where did it say again how hot the supes vission is ? and by how much ?


http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg


it's off the charts by all the standard scientific measures. that includes the charts used to measure the sun.

Originally posted by dvampire
It does take time, Goku has never teleported in mid battle. Why didn't he use it while fighting Cell or Kid Buu in battle (when I say battle, I mean in close combat). It whouldn't matter anyways, Superman is used to faceing teleporters, Goku will just be lose energy.

Superman doesn't do half the stuff he could do in mid battle . This is plot device because if they both (supes and goku) did what they could all the time in battle then the story wouldn't go along and it would end quick.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
what "proof" do you want?

Oh and Im hardly a DBZ fanboy, if anything I'm a Superman fanboy.

proof of goku having reaction time and normal speed comparable to supse.

Yes Cyber Ninja your correct, in DBZ terms, if the fighters did 1% of what they "could" do then the planet would be destroyed instantly. They have to hold back, they dont have a choice in DBZ

Huh I have seen goku do instant translocation in mid battle more then once......hence the warp kamehameha

Originally posted by Jose123
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg


it's off the charts by all the standard scientific measures. that includes the charts used to measure the sun.

"derived from the sun" no where did it say hotter.. Also you don't want me to belive what random people say right. Don't let me start qouteing what the gods in dbz says all the time about powers.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
Umm I KNOW movies are not cannon I was showing you on what it looks like sinse you don't remember him using one against freiza.

Waste energy ? it didn't waste any to put up the barrier and it came instantly. How often does he uses it ? how often does superman use half his shit lol this match is all out. Half the goku matches as well he is not even fighting his fullest, he is always playing like they said until lik ethe last ep or manga page.


no you never showed me. all you did was show picks of heat vission melting things and thats all thats in the thread. Everywhere I asked you to proove it's hotter than the sun, you aviod it some how ? just please show me again(you never showed me the first time) but by some chance you did, why don't you show me where it says it ? and not just assuming from the pics ?

Has Goku ever used IT in close combat? He's always using it from a distance. He didn't use it against Cell or Kid Buu, and he was going all out.

If Goku does happen to put up a barrier, Superman doesn't have to stop useing Heat Vision, he could just stand there over him with no problem, Goku will still be losing energy. Superman could either punch him or just sray him with Heat Vision it whouldn't matter.

And again go back and look through the thread, you can do it (even though you've seen scans).

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Yes Cyber Ninja your correct, in DBZ terms, if the fighters did 1% of what they "could" do then the planet would be destroyed instantly. They have to hold back, they dont have a choice in DBZ

yes they hold back. king kai and the other Gods always say it. Also that when some one gets crazy goku always says wtf, you want to destroy the whole planet ? and kicks what ever away and puts on the serious face.

Originally posted by Jose123
proof of goku having reaction time and normal speed comparable to supse.

WTF do you mean? lol

I already told you never in any DBZ has the relitive speed of the DBZ characters been given.

And Reaction time? Man. Who cares. Goku instant transmissions away, charges up a blast with enough power to destroy the planet a few hundred times. IT's back, and destroys Superman and the Earth.

He would never do it, but he easily could.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
"derived from the sun" no where did it say hotter.. Also you don't want me to belive what random people say right. Don't let me start qouteing what the gods in dbz says all the time about powers.

It's beyound any scientific measures (they can measure stars, but not his Heat Vision), that's your clue.

There god were weak, so who cares.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
WTF do you mean? lol

I already told you never in any DBZ has the relitive speed of the DBZ characters been given.

And Reaction time? Man. Who cares. Goku instant transmissions away, charges up a blast with enough power to destroy the planet a few hundred times. IT's back, and destroys Superman and the Earth.

He would never do it, but he easily could.

So basically you have no proof?

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
"derived from the sun" no where did it say hotter.. Also you don't want me to belive what random people say right. Don't let me start qouteing what the gods in dbz says all the time about powers.

missed the

off the charts by all the standard scientific measures part huh?

Originally posted by dvampire
Has Goku ever used IT in close combat? He's always using it from a distance. He didn't use it against Cell or Kid Buu, and he was going all out.

If Goku does happen to put up a barrier, Superman doesn't have to stop useing Heat Vision, he could just stand there over him with no problem, Goku will still be losing energy. Superman could either punch him or just sray him with Heat Vision it whouldn't matter.

And again go back and look through the thread, you can do it (even though you've seen scans).



the question was from the other guy is that Goku can not dodge heat vission.

i said he could itm out the way

then you come and say he punches,flys and heat vission so goku losses.

again that was not the question asked. Also great, barrire is up and superman stays with the heat vission(goku then instant transmissions out the way or where ever he wants) not like superman knows where he went sinse he teleports at the speed oflight(he can not follow where he went)

Goku is not going to go up in supes face and start to arm wrestle the man. Goku does fight range attacks as well.

Originally posted by dvampire
Has Goku ever used IT in close combat? He's always using it from a distance. He didn't use it against Cell or Kid Buu, and he was going all out.

If Goku does happen to put up a barrier, Superman doesn't have to stop useing Heat Vision, he could just stand there over him with no problem, Goku will still be losing energy. Superman could either punch him or just sray him with Heat Vision it whouldn't matter.

And again go back and look through the thread, you can do it (even though you've seen scans).

Ahh wrong again he did use it against kid Buu.

Episode is called "Vegeta'a respect"

Originally posted by Jose123
missed the

off the charts by all the standard scientific measures part huh?

you misse dthe derived thing huh ?

no human ever went to the sun and set exact numbers. So you can't assume supes heat visions unless you show a scan on how powerful it is.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Ahh wrong again he did use it against kid Buu.

Episode is called "Vegeta'a respect"

I said that he used it against Kid Buu, just not in close combat.

Originally posted by dvampire
It's beyound any scientific measures (they can measure stars, but not his Heat Vision), that's your clue.

There god were weak, so who cares. there Gods have the knowlege though

dvampire...Nope, he did use ITM in close combat actually, thats what i meant.

Go rent the episode

I will be back later guys.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
there Gods have the knowlege though

And stupid clothes

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
the question was from the other guy is that Goku can not dodge heat vission.

i said he could itm out the way

then you come and say he punches,flys and heat vission so goku losses.

again that was not the question asked. Also great, barrire is up and superman stays with the heat vission(goku then instant transmissions out the way or where ever he wants) not like superman knows where he went sinse he teleports at the speed oflight(he can not follow where he went)

Goku is not going to go up in supes face and start to arm wrestle the man. Goku does fight range attacks as well.

How can Goku put up a barrier and Teleport? Has he ever done that before? Again it's just a teleport, Superman has fought teleporters before, it'll be waste of Goku's energy.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
there Gods have the knowlege though

Still weak though.

Originally posted by dvampire
How can Goku put up a barrier and Teleport? Has he ever done that before? Again it's just a teleport, Superman has fought teleporters before, it'll be waste of Goku's energy.

umm.... have you seen a barrier ? it is a circle around goku, and everything is free, so yes he can instant transmission while in it. Also sure superman faces teleporters but they are not goku......an also the question was can he dodge heat vission....

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
dvampire...Nope, he did use ITM in close combat actually, thats what i meant.

Go rent the episode

When? Where? He's never used it in close combat, not like it'll matter anyways though.

Originally posted by dvampire
Still weak though. I said the know alot so they are a credited source when they speak..no one said they were strong....

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
umm.... have you seen a barrier ? it is a circle around goku, and everything is free, so yes he can instant transmission while in it. Also sure superman faces teleporters but they are not goku......an also the question was can he dodge heat vission....

But has Goku ever put up a barrier and IT at the same time is what I'm asking?

They don't have to be Goku, they're actually better since they don't have to lock onto a Ki sgnature.

No he can't dodge Heat Vision (especailly at close range), since Goku can't fly faster than it.

Ok, Im a big fan of DBZ/GT Ive seen every episode an every movie. Superman wins this,
He is totally invulerable to all of Goku's attacks an Superman is so fast he can go back in time. Goku at NO POINT is fast enough to go back in time. Therefore Goku could never land an attack, period. An even if he could Superman wouldnt be hurt, Goku could blow up the entire solar system Superman would still be there waiting to beat his ass.

I think they desperately need to make a DBZ movie myself I love the series an think it would make a killer movie because the story is pretty unique. The good guys dont always win.)
Its like crossing superman-like beings with a deathstar, lol. An they get powerful enough to destroy all of reality(Fused Buu vs Fused Goku/Vegita), not just planets an solar system.

So post crisis supes can go back in time.........

Originally posted by thesilverspider
So post crisis supes can go back in time.........

I didnt realize timeline were to be address? wtf is post crisis an why should i give a f? An who said anything about it being post crisis?

Originally posted by NPC
I didnt realize timeline were to be address? wtf is post crisis an why should i give a f? An who said anything about it being post crisis?

It's cool man! For this fight it's going to be Post-Crisis, any other version will be overkill.

Can Superman Survive something that would destroy a planet 800 times?

I've searched the Web and the powerlevels up to the Frieza saga were indeed done by Toriyama himself. (the creator of DBZ)

NO powerlevels that you will find after the Frieza saga however are true. merley guesstimates, and so they are pretty well useless.

But the powerlevels from Dragonball to Dragonball Z- Namek saga are completly true.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These power levels are 100% accurate. They came from either the Daizenshyus(Dragon Ball encycopedia) or the Manga. This means that everything on this page is fact, not opinions or guesses because they came from Toriyama himself.

Starting from Raditz:

Raditzu Saga

Raditzu vs. Farmer

Raditzu: 1,500
Farmer with Shotgun: 5


Raditsu vs. Gokou and Piccolo
Raditzu: 1,200
Gokou (with weighted clothing) : 334 Goku
(without weighted clothing) : 416
Gokou (with Kamehameha) : 924
Piccolo (with weighted clothing) : 322
Piccolo (without weighted clothing) : 408
Piccolo's Makankosappo (1st) : 1,330
Piccolo's Makankosappo (2nd) : 1,440
Gohan: 1 to 1,307 (after he got mad)

Right after the Battle

Kame-sennin: 139
Kame-sennin's Turtle: 0.001
Kuririn: 206
Tenshinhan: 250
Yamucha: 177
Piccolo: 329

Vegeta Saga

Fight with the Z warriors vs. Saibamen & Nappa

Kuririnr: 1,770
Yamcha: 1,480
Piccolo: 3,500
Chaozu: 610
Tienshinhan: 1,830
Gohan: 2,800
Saibamen: 1,200
Nappa: 4,000
Gokou: 5,000
Gokou power up: 8,000

Gokou vs. Vegeta

Gokou's power: 8,000
with Kaioken x1: 10,000
with Kaioken x2: 16,000
with Kaioken x3: 24,000
with Kaioken x4: 32,000
Vegeta's power: 18,000

Freeza Saga

During Arrival at Namek
*Note this is not all at the same time. For example Vegeta is at 24,000 power level when he arrives, but by the time Gokou gets there Vegeta is much more powerful.

Gohan's power: 4,000
Kuririn's power: 3,000
Vegeta's power: 24,000
Nail's power: 42,000
Freezer's 1st form power: 530,000
Gokou's power (without completey powering up): 90,000

Goku vs. Freeza
Freeza (form 4 33.3%): 4,000,000
Freeza (form 4 50%): 6,000,000
Freeza (form 4 70%): 8,400,000
Freeza (form 4 100%): 12,000,000
Goku's Base Level: 300,000
Goku Kaioken x10: 3,000,000
Goku Kaioken x20: 6,000,000
Super Saiya-jin Goku: 15,000,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meaning that indeed by the end of the Frieza saga Goku has enough power to destroy a planet 833 times.

Because...



Thats mathematical proof. The powerlevels are 100% accurate. Since they came from the Creator of DBZ.

So now the burden is on you to prove if Superman could survive an energy attack capable of destroying a planet 833 times over.

(and remember, that this is ONLY Super Saiyan Goku, not SSJ3)

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Can Superman Survive something that would destroy a planet 800 times?

I've searched the Web and the powerlevels up to the Frieza saga were indeed done by Toriyama himself. (the creator of DBZ)

NO powerlevels that you will find after the Frieza saga however are true. merley guesstimates, and so they are pretty well useless.

But the powerlevels from Dragonball to Dragonball Z- Namek saga are completly true.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These power levels are 100% accurate. They came from either the Daizenshyus(Dragon Ball encycopedia) or the Manga. This means that everything on this page is fact, not opinions or guesses because they came from Toriyama himself.

Starting from Raditz:

Raditzu Saga

Raditzu vs. Farmer

Raditzu: 1,500
Farmer with Shotgun: 5


Raditsu vs. Gokou and Piccolo
Raditzu: 1,200
Gokou (with weighted clothing) : 334 Goku
(without weighted clothing) : 416
Gokou (with Kamehameha) : 924
Piccolo (with weighted clothing) : 322
Piccolo (without weighted clothing) : 408
Piccolo's Makankosappo (1st) : 1,330
Piccolo's Makankosappo (2nd) : 1,440
Gohan: 1 to 1,307 (after he got mad)

Right after the Battle

Kame-sennin: 139
Kame-sennin's Turtle: 0.001
Kuririn: 206
Tenshinhan: 250
Yamucha: 177
Piccolo: 329

Vegeta Saga

Fight with the Z warriors vs. Saibamen & Nappa

Kuririnr: 1,770
Yamcha: 1,480
Piccolo: 3,500
Chaozu: 610
Tienshinhan: 1,830
Gohan: 2,800
Saibamen: 1,200
Nappa: 4,000
Gokou: 5,000
Gokou power up: 8,000

Gokou vs. Vegeta

Gokou's power: 8,000
with Kaioken x1: 10,000
with Kaioken x2: 16,000
with Kaioken x3: 24,000
with Kaioken x4: 32,000
Vegeta's power: 18,000

Freeza Saga

During Arrival at Namek
*Note this is not all at the same time. For example Vegeta is at 24,000 power level when he arrives, but by the time Gokou gets there Vegeta is much more powerful.

Gohan's power: 4,000
Kuririn's power: 3,000
Vegeta's power: 24,000
Nail's power: 42,000
Freezer's 1st form power: 530,000
Gokou's power (without completey powering up): 90,000

Goku vs. Freeza
Freeza (form 4 33.3%): 4,000,000
Freeza (form 4 50%): 6,000,000
Freeza (form 4 70%): 8,400,000
Freeza (form 4 100%): 12,000,000
Goku's Base Level: 300,000
Goku Kaioken x10: 3,000,000
Goku Kaioken x20: 6,000,000
Super Saiya-jin Goku: 15,000,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meaning that indeed by the end of the Frieza saga Goku has enough power to destroy a planet 833 times.

Superman is beyound taking planet destroying and ssj3 Goku isn't throwing planet destroying blasts.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Because...



Thats mathematical proof. The powerlevels are 100% accurate. Since they came from the Creator of DBZ.

So now the burden is on you to prove if Superman could survive an energy attack capable of destroying a planet 833 times over.

(and remember, that this is ONLY Super Saiyan Goku, not SSJ3)

Still waiting proof that Goku is stronger, faster, more durable, and has the stamina to compete with Superman.

that dosent even make sense...

Can Superman withstand a Blast the has the potential to destroy the Earth 833 times?

If you cant prove that he could survive such an attack then Goku could destroy him.

Strength, Stamina and all that means absolutly nothing at this point. Goku could ITM somewhere, build up the energy to blow up the earth 800 times. ITM back infront of Superman and kill him.

Unless you can prove that Superman would survive such an attack...

Originally posted by dvampire
Superman is beyound taking planet destroying and ssj3 Goku isn't throwing planet destroying blasts.

Yes, I could believe that he would survive a planets destruction. But almost 850 planet destructions? Not likely.

(And again, he could destroy the Earth 833 times as a SUPER SAYIAN. Imagine what he could do as a Super Saiyan 3)

btw. Your sentence didnt make grammatical sense...lol

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Yes, I could believe that he would survive a planets destruction. But almost 850 planet destructions? Not likley.

(And again, he could destroy the Earth 833 times as a SUPER SAYIAN. Imagine what he could do as a Super Saiyan 3)


Goku has never thrown a blasts that could destroy the planet 833 times though. Goku in ssj3 still was only throwing moutain/city destroying blasts, not planet destroying.

Again Superman has survived much worser things than planet destroying.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
btw. Your sentence didnt make grammatical sense...lol

Atleast I don't have to make up lies to win a debate.

Your not listing to me.

Yes, Goku never actually HAS done it. But he COULD do it if he felt like it.

Or have you not even read my other posts...?

Originally posted by dvampire
Atleast I don't have to make up lies to win a debate.

WTF?? And here you are accusing me of being a Goku fanboy, your only rebuttal to my vaild argument with power levels and the math calculations to prove my point is that?. and all you can say is that I'm a lier? weak man.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Your not listing to me.

Yes, Goku never actually HAS done it. But he COULD do it if he felt like it.

Or have you not even read my other posts...?

And again, Goku has never done anything like that, not even close. He was still only throwing moutain/city destroying blasts even in ssj3.

can you bring a better arguement?

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
WTF?? And here you are accusing me of being a Goku fanboy, your only rebuttal to my vaild argument with power levels and the math calculations to prove my point is that?. and all you can say is that I'm a lier? weak man.

You're a Goku fanboy becasue you start throwing insults and then start making up stuff that the character has never done.

Ok, seriously. LISTEN TO ME...lol

Go back, Read my other posts.

Goku never HAS done it but he COULD do it.

I could go outside right now and run around hitting people with my car. But I'm not going to do it. Just because someone hasent actually done something dosent mean he dosent have the potential to do it.

Superman has never beaten the Earths military forces and ruled the Earth. But he COULD do it.

You gotta do better then "I've never seen him do it" When I've givin you proof that he could do it.

Those numbers are worthless:
A - The characters have never done anything like that.
B - We don't know what Supes numbers would actually be with the DB system as he holds back as well.

I'd hate to see what numbers he would have based on a simple "canon" scan such as this...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/action832supes1.jpg

"Theres pretty much nothing I can't do in the realm of the natural.."

But you have no numbers. Too bad for you. I do. So your basing it solely on speculation. Doesn't hold water.

i dont have the numbers for Super Saiyan 3 Goku because they dont exist. But there much higher then the numbers I've givin. But I dont speculate about things. So I've based it on facts. Not hearsay and speculation.

Oh and is that Picture Pre or Post-Crisis?

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Ok, seriously. LISTEN TO ME...lol

Go back, Read my other posts.

Goku never HAS done it but he COULD do it.

I could go outside right now and run around hitting people with my car. But I'm not going to do it. Just because someone hasent actually done something dosent mean he dosent have the potential to do it.

Superman has never beaten the Earths military forces and ruled the Earth. But he COULD do it.

You gotta do better then "I've never seen him do it" When I've givin you proof that he could do it.

Again with no evidence. Superman is constantly fighting universal threats, the Earth military is nothing to him. Have you ever read a Superman comic?

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
But you have no numbers. Too bad for you. I do. So your basing it solely on speculation. Doesn't hold water.

i dont have the numbers for Super Saiyan 3 Goku because they dont exist. But there much higher then the numbers I've givin. But I dont speculate about things. So I've based it on facts. Not hearsay and speculation.

We don't need numbers, prove that ssj3 Goku (or any DBZ character) is faster, stronger, more durable, and has the stamina to fight with Superman please? So far Superman is superior to him everything I've listed.

Yes, But what does that have anything to do with what were talking about.

You say I have givin no proof. Then you dont understand what I'm talking about. Its all in my previous posts.

Goku's Powerlevel as a Super Saiyan = 15,000,000

The power needed to destroy a planet = 18,000

15,000,000 divided by 18,000 = 833

Basic math man.

Can Superman Survive an attack of that magnitude?

YOU have givin ME no proof that he could.

And if he cant? Then....

wait....

Goku could kill him

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Yes, But what does that have anything to do with what were talking about.

You say I have givin no proof. Then you dont understand what I'm talking about. Its all in my previous posts.

Goku's Powerlevel as a Super Saiyan = 15,000,000

The power needed to destroy a planet = 18,000

15,000,000 divided by 18,000 = 833

Basic math man.

And again, that's not proving that ssj3 Goku is stronger, faster, more durable, or have the stamina to fight with Superman. Show me some feats?

............I now dub you a Superman Fanboy, in the ranks of Fist of the North. Congrats man. You are hilarious.

How can I argue with you if you completely disregard everything I'm saying?

Thats not how argumentation works. lol

I already answered that question. I'm not going to keep re-answering things for you.

YOU however have not answered my question. I'm still waiting.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
............I now dub you a Superman Fanboy, in the ranks of Fist of the North. Congrats man. You are hilarious.

How can I argue with you if you completely disregard everything I'm saying?

Thats not how argumentation works. lol

I already answered that question. I'm not going to keep answering things for you.

YOU however have not answered my question. I'm still waiting.

So I'm a Superman fanboy because I think he could win?

You havn't brung any good arguement, when I ask you to prove that Goku is faster, stronger, more durable, and has the stamina to fight with Superman, you avoid the question by throwing useless numbers around.

If ssj3 Goku isn't punching stars and planets with his punches than he's not going to be putting Supes down (or even fase) at all. One punch from Supes will put ssj3 Goku in real pain that he won't be able to continue fighting. And he loses energy way too fast to even put up a decent match for Supes.

Strength:

ssj3 Goku- ssj2 at max struggled to push a moutain apart during his fight with Kid Buu, who was also beating ssj3 Goku (which means that ssj3 Goku isn't that far in power from ssj2).


http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/dragonball-z/Media/Video_Clips/DBZ-Video08.mov


Superman- Superman was chained to the endless millwheels of the Mageddon machinery. His strength was used to move the gears of a weapon whose size dwarfed the entire Earth/Moon system. Superman threw a space station the size of a small moon, Superman moved a planet with light speed force coming against him, Superman was strong enough to contain a blackhole in the palm of his hands for a long period of time, and can punch small moons with no problem.

Durability:

ssj3 Goku- not strong enough to take blows from beings that are less powerful than Supes.

Superman- Superman survived the destruction of a sun eater at ground zero, Survived the destruction of the moon, survived the destruction force of a nova, survived a Mageddon Warhead capable at the minimum vaporizing half a galaxy, survived passage through a cosmic wormhole, survived passage through a blackhole, took blows from a guy that destroy stars with one punch, survived being punched through the Earth, and punched from earths surface to the moon.

Speed:

ssj3 Goku- He's fast, but not fast enough to beat a energy blast.

Superman- beat a photon blast, flew from earth to the sun in just a few seconds, flew around the equator in a matter of seconds, and Superman made a trip from Earth to Saturn in well under 4 minutes.

Stamina:

ssj3 Goku- tires in just a few minutes.

Superman- Can fight for weeks.

Superman wins pretty easily.

Good Good.

But you still have not answered my question.

Can Superman Survive a blast that could destroy the Earth 833 times?

Everything else is irrelevant.

Goku doesn't need to have a fist fight with Superman. If he could just shoot an energy blast at him and kill him then why would he?

There was no proof in that whole post that says he can survive an attack of that magnitude. Those numbers arnt "useless numbers" they prove that Goku is capable of creating an energy attack (as a SUPER SAIYAN 1) of that magnitude. Supes cannot do anything close to this.

Even if hes Faster (in terms of physical speed) Goku Still has Instant Transmission. Supes cannot teleport.

All Goku needs to win this fight is ITM and a full power Kamehameha wave using roughly 1/3 of his full power to kill Superman.

Unless you can prove that Superman is capable of surviving a blast that powerful. Which you have not thus far.

All other points are not relevant in any way.

The fight would go like this.

Supes: "I'm going to kill you Goku"

Goku: "Oh, this should be interesting"

*Goku ITMs somewhere. Tunes Super Saiyan, Charges up a blast that could destroy the Earth 800 times. ITMs back in front of Superman. And kills him*

End fight.

Originally posted by dvampire
So I'm a Superman fanboy because I think he could win?

You havn't brung any good arguement, when I ask you to prove that Goku is faster, stronger, more durable, and has the stamina to fight with Superman, you avoid the question by throwing useless numbers around.

If ssj3 Goku isn't punching stars and planets with his punches than he's not going to be putting Supes down (or even fase) at all. One punch from Supes will put ssj3 Goku in real pain that he won't be able to continue fighting. And he loses energy way too fast to even put up a decent match for Supes.

Strength:

ssj3 Goku- ssj2 at max struggled to push a moutain apart during his fight with Kid Buu, who was also beating ssj3 Goku (which means that ssj3 Goku isn't that far in power from ssj2).


http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/dragonball-z/Media/Video_Clips/DBZ-Video08.mov


Superman- Superman was chained to the endless millwheels of the Mageddon machinery. His strength was used to move the gears of a weapon whose size dwarfed the entire Earth/Moon system. Superman threw a space station the size of a small moon, Superman moved a planet with light speed force coming against him, Superman was strong enough to contain a blackhole in the palm of his hands for a long period of time, and can punch small moons with no problem.

Durability:

ssj3 Goku- not strong enough to take blows from beings that are less powerful than Supes.

Superman- Superman survived the destruction of a sun eater at ground zero, Survived the destruction of the moon, survived the destruction force of a nova, survived a Mageddon Warhead capable at the minimum vaporizing half a galaxy, survived passage through a cosmic wormhole, survived passage through a blackhole, took blows from a guy that destroy stars with one punch, survived being punched through the Earth, and punched from earths surface to the moon.

Speed:

ssj3 Goku- He's fast, but not fast enough to beat a energy blast.

Superman- beat a photon blast, flew from earth to the sun in just a few seconds, flew around the equator in a matter of seconds, and Superman made a trip from Earth to Saturn in well under 4 minutes.

Stamina:

ssj3 Goku- tires in just a few minutes.

Superman- Can fight for weeks.

Superman wins pretty easily.

There's plenty of feats here that puts any DBZ character feats to shame. Please look at the thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f48/t371890.html

And again, Goku doesn't have the power to destroy planet 833 times, bring some real evidnce.

Superman have energy blasts and fist that could kill ssj3 Goku in a sec.

"And again, Goku doesn't have the power to destroy planet 833 times, bring some real evidnce."

I did, Its as real as any of your evidence.

I'm still waiting btw

Originally posted by dvampire
There's plenty of feats here that puts any DBZ character feats to shame. Please look at the thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f48/t371890.html

And again, Goku doesn't have the power to destroy planet 833 times, bring some real evidnce.

Superman have energy blasts and fist that could kill ssj3 Goku in a sec.

Originally posted by dvampire
There's plenty of feats here that puts any DBZ character feats to shame. Please look at the thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f48/t371890.html

And again, Goku doesn't have the power to destroy planet 833 times, bring some real evidnce.

Superman have energy blasts and fist that could kill ssj3 Goku in a sec.

You mean the evidence that's right in front of your screen.

Where was it stated in the show or manga, that anybody in DBZ could destroy the planet 833 times?

Well, I'm going to wait until you can answer my question. Since you seem not to be able to. This argument is over, unfortunately.

As it stands all you gave me is neat little snippets of cool things Superman has done. Wow?

I've given you undeniable fact that Goku has the power to do what I'm saying he can do.

The numbers were given by the creator of DBZ, so they stand as much as "fact" as anything that Goku "does" or has "done" in the manga or the TV series.

Thats what Goku can do. Can Superman Survive it?

Thats up to you to answer.

Originally posted by dvampire
There's plenty of feats here that puts any DBZ character feats to shame. Please look at the thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f48/t371890.html

And again, Goku doesn't have the power to destroy planet 833 times, bring some real evidnce.

Superman have energy blasts and fist that could kill ssj3 Goku in a sec.

You havn't proven anything yet, I have, and the proof is in Superman's respect thread. Still waiting for proof that ssj3 Goku is faster, stronger, more durable, and has stamina to fight with Superman, numbers are useless, since they aren't telling me any of those. Superman can survive any of the DBZ characters attacks, but they can't survive any of his.