What is the Point of Love if it is going to Hurt you?

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WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink

Bardock42
I think it's jsut an easy calculation...."Pleasure Derived" vs "Pain Possible" x "Chance for Pain to occur"


Possibly some more..that'S the basic thing though.

debbiejo
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink It's the hope. no expression

WrathfulDwarf
Hope or maybe wishful thinking...

DanieLs_4_Ever
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink
Just because many relationships do not work out does not mean NONE of them work out. Lots do. So there is every point in the world of 'Love.'

debbiejo
True...Wishful for the feeling of it and the happiness we think it would bring.

Mindship
You don't eat, you die.
You don't breathe, you die.
You don't love, you die. It just takes longer.

debbiejo
Yeah....

Shakyamunison
No regrets.

Jana
Well, I think it is simply the fact, that everyone desires happiness and love is often enough source of such great happiness, that we seek to find and keep hold on.

Of course there is always the chance of getting hurt, but that is with everything in our lives that make us happy, because to everything there is a contrary, mostly just losing that specific thing whatsoever that made you happy in the first place.

As we know the greater the happiness, the stronger the pain, it is to us to decide how much happiness we can take, to bear the resulting pain.

If we avoid any pain, we avoid any happiness and that would be a try to live in indolence.

So, if it is seen like that, it is a matter of strength how happy one truly can be.

And yea right, I think 'love' is not what most people think, something for the own advantage, but a matter of 'giving', no matter how f*cked, not 'receiving happiness', but hey .. whatever explanation you prefer.
dontgetit]

(sorry, I am tired, so .. off to bed now and way too lazy to correct those phrases I'm insecure about .... I suck at English lately stick out tongue)

BackFire
The most important thing with love is the good times you have with the person before it ends. Even when a relationship goes sour, you can look back later on and smile at all the beautiful and tender memories you have.

If we avoided doing things because they might hurt us, we'd all be very bored, and sad people.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink If you never hurt for the person, how can you know you really care?

Victor Von Doom
It's essentially a case of not settling for a neutral existence.

If you never love, you will never feel the pain that can arise from those situations. However, you will also never feel the highs of love.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
If you never hurt for the person, how can you know you really care?

thumbup1 yes

DarkWizard
I've always believed, that living a life of happiness is worth the risk of getting hurt.

WrathfulDwarf
From the responses so far is that pain is good? I guess love and pain can't be separted then...

Tha C-Master
Necessary, maybe a necessary evil... good is often mixed with pleasant, but beneficial and pleasant aren't the same.

AOR
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink

We live in a natural selective universe. What does not kill you makes you suffer. Trial and error, all these things play into the role of courtship and ďsoul-matesĒ. The pain is but an obstacle you need to over come. If love is too harsh, than perhaps it is not a thing for you. Because itís just like they say, Canít take the pain, donít play the game

debbiejo
Originally posted by BackFire
The most important thing with love is the good times you have with the person before it ends. Even when a relationship goes sour, you can look back later on and smile at all the beautiful and tender memories you have.

If we avoided doing things because they might hurt us, we'd all be very bored, and sad people. This is a very good way to look at it for sure.

redcaped
PLEASE hear this: Love was meant only for "oneself" loving yourself allows you to keep your way steady, no matter the person you like is good or bad you won't be affected cause you love yourself the most. I think we should like everyone. A woman should like all men not just 1 man because nobody is perfect and it can hurt you | or a man should like all women not just 1 woman because nobody is perfect and it can hurt you.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by redcaped
PLEASE hear this: Love was meant only for "oneself" loving yourself allows you to keep your way steady, no matter the person you like is good or bad you won't be affected cause you love yourself the most...

This is correct, self love and self respect are required before you can love anyone else.

redcaped
And the smartest thing to do is "wait" to be loved first. Never Ever Ask, just reply. A wise choice. Keep your ego up to survive in this messy world.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by redcaped
And the smartest thing to do is "wait" to be loved first. Never Ever Ask, just reply. A wise choice. Keep your ego up to survive in this messy world.

Nothing risked, nothing gained.

redcaped
No risks!!! Observe carefully first and know how to describe things. If you see all risky, try nothing! Just be patient for the call.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by redcaped
No risks!!! Observe carefully first and know how to describe things. If you see all risky, try nothing! Just be patient for the call.

I respectfully disagree. Life is short, go for life. Do not be foolish and use patients, but don't let life pass you by.

redcaped
I respectfully disagree-sorry to repeat. Life is Faith and nothing else. Without faith you will fall with risks. Life is been given to you and you are alive right now. Are you daring the future that doesn't even exists, like rushing? The fact is that there is no difference between life&death....you are the same always.

AOR
Originally posted by redcaped
No risks!!! Observe carefully first and know how to describe things. If you see all risky, try nothing! Just be patient for the call.

If everyone waited, the who would move?

debbiejo
If your open, you get lots of choices...... big grin

Arachnoidfreak
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink

you know that's not true. there are couples that have been married 20, 30, 50, even a couple in some magazine the other day was together 76 years. hell, my parents have been together for 18 years.

debbiejo
Still about 50% of couples will get divorced.

WrathfulDwarf
Originally posted by debbiejo
Still about 50% of couples will get divorced.

Or most likely cheat on their partner. That's not love and it can hurt people very deeply.

redcaped
Yep, like pack your things and leave!

Mindship
Think less, feel more.
Hurt? Heal. Learn.
Don't live in shadow.
kisses pizza kicking

debbiejo
beer Hear hear!!

Roulette
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink

We want love because it brings happiness. Love can be the greatest feeling the world, but it can also be the worst. There will always be consequences to falling in love....it can leave you vulnerable, it can create immense pain...but we risk this all because we desire happiness. We want to be with that one person who makes our days worth living.

redcaped
For some Time...

ladyjedi05
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink


Love and pain are just all part of life~ I believe everything happens for a reason~ I bet you have been scared pretty bad, huh?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink

Relationships do last, but not all. That's like anything though, isn't it? You could apply that reasoning to most things, but it doesn't mean there's no point doing them.

Sometimes finding love isn't the struggle, keeping it and making it work is the struggle. I've been there, I'm sure we all have. I personally believe that a person is often better off for being in love than for not being in it, in the long run.

-AC

overlord
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink I'm a masochist but that beside, I take the chance of getting potentially hurt one day because of selfish purposes.

What an obvious thread! Shame on you, mister moderator!

WrathfulDwarf
Don't we use love for selfish purposes? Don't we say "I want her/him"? It's a desire most of us share overlord. Is pretty safe to assume that love and pain can't be separated and pain is the price we pay for loving too much?

Storm
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Don't we use love for selfish purposes? Don't we say "I want her/him"? It's a desire most of us share overlord.
Infatuation rather then love comes to my mind.

Maya Zurak
Love is the way to open yourself and show your deeply feelings.
Of course you knows that you can be hurted and anyway we take the risk. IMO

redcaped
Be my guess and happy aging.

AOR
To lock oneself in a room, redcaped, is to deny yourself the joys of life so as not to pay the costs that come with them. Such a life is seen by many to be cold, and lonely...

redcaped
But if a girl knocks on my door I will let her in and I hope she does the same for me!

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by redcaped
But if a girl knocks on my door I will let her in and I hope she does the same for me!

Life waits for you to do something.

K.Diddy
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink


Life hurts

Bardock42
Did I say already how tempted I feel to post Neil Young's "Only Love can break your heart"?


Nevermind...I have to

When you were young and on your own
How did it feel to be alone?
I was always thinking of games that I was playing.
Trying to make the best of my time.

But only love can break your heart
Try to be sure right from the start
Yes only love can break your heart
What if your world should fall apart?

I have a friend I’ve never seen
He hides his head inside a dream
Someone should call him and see if he can come out.
Try to lose the down that he’s found.

But only love can break your heart
Try to be sure right from the start
Yes only love can break your heart
What if your world should fall apart?

I have a friend I’ve never seen
He hides his head inside a dream
Yes, only love can break your heart
Yes, only love can break your heart

redcaped
Life is nothing but you-you die no more life. Life is not a general word like they teach in school. We are not connected to each other.

WrathfulDwarf
Originally posted by redcaped
We are not connected to each other.

With that...I can agree. We connect ourselves to each other. Love is just a fortune on finding the person you want to be. Or some people pick anything out of desperation.

AOR
I am tempted to post a quote that just crossed my mind:

"The man who eats alone, dies alone. But he does not die of hunger."

WrathfulDwarf
Some people choose a life of solitude and peace. And isn't it better to be in peace and harmony than to be hurt and full of pain?

Remenber this is only philosophical thinking. wink

debbiejo
Is this like
Catch a falling star and put it in you pocket
Save it for a rain day,
For love my come and tap you on the shoulder some starlit night
and just in case you feel you want to hold her, you'll have a pocket full of star light.

Maya Zurak
sweet ^^

AOR
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Some people choose a life of solitude and peace. And isn't it better to be in peace and harmony than to be hurt and full of pain?

Remenber this is only philosophical thinking. wink

If you apply that theory to everything, than you would be living a cowards life. Or so the "theory" would prove...

Yoda (and sorry to take this out of context) lived a peacefull and soliditary life. Would you say he is a coward? Of course not! After everything he went through, he didn't live a life of P and S out of fear of getting hurt, but rather a time to see what he did wrong, and live with that mistake. Peace and solitude can only be enjoyed if you have the experience of a community and chaos. Because how can you tell if the apple is sweet if you've never tasted the sour lemon?

redcaped
My life is not easy and I fear too much from things.

WrathfulDwarf
Originally posted by AOR
If you apply that theory to everything, than you would be living a cowards life. Or so the "theory" would prove...

Yoda (and sorry to take this out of context) lived a peacefull and soliditary life. Would you say he is a coward? Of course not! After everything he went through, he didn't live a life of P and S out of fear of getting hurt, but rather a time to see what he did wrong, and live with that mistake. Peace and solitude can only be enjoyed if you have the experience of a community and chaos. Because how can you tell if the apple is sweet if you've never tasted the sour lemon?

I don't know about Yoda and being a coward. But there are people who renounce all worldly pleasures (including love) and embark into a spiritual life of learning. Such people are what we call "monks". Just because you give up love and dedicate your life to a spiritual journey doesn't make you any less than a person fallen in love.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I don't know about Yoda and being a coward. But there are people who renounce all worldly pleasures (including love) and embark into a spiritual life of learning. Such people are what we call "monks". Just because you give up love and dedicate your life to a spiritual journey doesn't make you any less than a person fallen in love.

Many of those people are in love, with god or knowledge or whatever.

Lovely Murder
if your saying love brings pain, then i dont need it... i have enough pain with out love... with no love....

Jack Daniels
always have to pay the price for feelin nice....took me a long time to truly understand that.....

kjones
Hey hows u? cool

K.Diddy
Originally posted by kjones
Hey hows u? cool


Go in the off topic or welcome forum.

AOR
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I don't know about Yoda and being a coward. But there are people who renounce all worldly pleasures (including love) and embark into a spiritual life of learning. Such people are what we call "monks". Just because you give up love and dedicate your life to a spiritual journey doesn't make you any less than a person fallen in love.

but just because they don't seek love, doesn't mean they don't love. There will always be a some form or shape of love playing in a life of peace and harmony. But when you decide to live a life of peace and harmony out of fear of pain, then there is no love, and merely fear. And when one allows fear to overcome them then they die a thousand and one times...

Storm
We learn what we will and will not tolerate in relationships. We learn what our limits are, and learn about our capacity to love. We learn what we want and don' t want in a partner, the traits we find attractive and those that we can do without.

By trial and error, we learn what we really want in our love life and that makes it all worth the pain.

leonheartmm
true love is about the only thing is the world which can truly never be subjected to the laws of logic and basic human instinct{hey even bertrand russel agreed}. it trancends logic and reason. true love is COMPLETELY unselfish. you do not exist and the object of affection is everything. whether it mean eternal suffering or torment, it doesnt matter, because loving isnt about taking, its about giving{although being loved isnt bad at all, its just not an end of loving sum1}. thats probably why the majority of love is one sided and ends up never being reciprocated. {sadly}

and well, truly, life has no value without love. that is why the question of why wud u suffer is unimportant. being alive in itself is suffering, does that imply that we shud kill ourselves?

on the other hand, we also have to live in this imperfect physical world with the limitation of mind and body. and it can be downright suicidal to be in love at times and suffer{the greater the love, the greater the suffering}. that is why people going through continued disappointments harden up and seal their ability to feal such things.

pretty cruel yeah.

DigiMark007
No one has looked at love from a genetic perspective yet. The philosophical and/or emotional realities of it are one aspect of the entity we call "love" but it's really only looking at half the picture.

We're genetically pre-disposed to want to breed, and this presents itself as a series of chemical reactions that stimulate us physically and cognitively. The lust/love we speak of.

And it follows that we'll try again and again, because our ancestors that were willing to try again and again were the most successful and passed those genes to us.

The other stuff, from pain/pleasure analyses to the mystical bonds we attempt to create between "soul mates" and every emotional evaluation of love in general, is just our advanced intelligence and culture ascribing "extras" on to the biological fact that is the desire to procreate.

That's not to say that emotional fulfillment doesn't happen (it certainly does), and meaningful friendships/relationships/etc. can obviously be fostered and can be wonderful things. But all these trivialities of relationships are founded on the base that is our genetic predisposition.

Every generalization from cheating husbands to nuturing mothers is in some way rationalized via gene tendencies. For the latter: the mother, in any animal species, can be 100% sure that a child is her's, as opposed to less than certainty with the father. This produces more nuturing genes in the mother, less so in the father, because it is in his genetic interests to be more wary. For the former: male species in general came about as a way to exploit the "female" (in the earliest stages of it, male/female wouldn't have been appropriate, because we're talking about single-celled organisms). The female would incubate the egg and reproduce using it..."males" came about as a rogue type of cell that could penetrate the egg, insert genetic material, and not have to expend energy on the birthing process, thus allowing them to reproduce more. Certainly, men aren't entirely exploitive anymore, nor are most permiscuous (most aren't) but there's solid gentic factors that contribute to why men seem to cheat more than women.

...

So to answer the question, it's more than worth the pain. I could care less about the survival of my genes, even if I happen to think they are good ones (I suppose some are). But it's fun. Sex is cool, friendships are great to have, and an emotional partner is a wonderful thing to have as well. And if I don't end up with anyone, no big loss. I won't lie, I'd like to end up married and such...but I'm also cognizant enough of my ability to enjoy/hate my life regardless of the circumstances, so I'll make the best of it either way.

...and solicit many hookers.

no expression

SpearofDestiny
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink



1) The only person who can make you happy is yourself. No one else is holding your happiness in their hand.



2) Just because relationships don't last doesn't make them any less valid. We all die sooner or later. Does that mean nothing is worth doing ?



3) If you see the other person as your source of refuge, comfort, love, and pleasure, chances are you become dependent on them. That's unfair. They are not responsible for you.

Both partners should love the other, without need for returns.

Don't think about what your partner can give to you. Think about what you can give to him/her. If both partners do this, both will be happy, and last a long time.

SpearofDestiny
Originally posted by DigiMark007
We're genetically pre-disposed to want to breed, and this presents itself as a series of chemical reactions that stimulate us physically and cognitively. The lust/love we speak of.


Bullshit thumb down


Not all of us want to breed. Many heterosexual couples do not want children, and Gays and Lesbians do not pair up for the sake of pro-creation.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Bullshit thumb down


Not all of us want to breed. Many heterosexual couples do not want children, and Gays and Lesbians do not pair up for the sake of pro-creation.

Did I say everyone was? Variation is the earmark of evolution. And I also said that it is our choice, as conscious individuals, to override those tendencies. Thus the examples you mentioned.

But if we weren't genetically predisposed to it (the vast, vast majority of us), chances are we wouldn't even be here talking about it.

As for the sexual preference distinctions you mentioned, there's about 125 known genes that control aspects of sexuality, from physical and mental arousal based on certain characteristics (why we like blondes over brunettes, for example) to our sexual preference. Some of these genes might make their host lean more toward homosexuality, some hetero. Some could be turned off until puberty, or until a certain stimulus appears. Some switch as they intereact with other genes. And at any one time, it is unlikely that all of these genes are either one way or the other. In homosexuals, it's likely that the majority will be triggered toward that side. The same holds true for heterosexuals, and this is obviously what the majority is.

But (and here's the important part) if the majority of the population's genes weren't hetero, and weren't predisposed toward procreating, the species would have been in trouble thousands of years ago. That in no way invalidates homosexuality. It's merely a natural variation, and also a personal choice. But I'm talking primarily about the detached genetic factors of all this, not necessarily the personal chocie level (which is also very present in any equation).

As for the verification of all this, I'm speaking primarily to the research of geneticist Alfred Kinsey. Any of his works on gender and sexuality will extrapolate on these things.

SpearofDestiny
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Did I say everyone was? Variation is the earmark of evolution. And I also said that it is our choice, as conscious individuals, to override those tendencies. Thus the examples you mentioned.


Please excuse my opening statement. I was not attacking you, I was just in humorous mood.

However, not all of us have these tendencies. Not all people are parent material. Would you agree or disagree ?


Some people naturally, on thier own, don't want kids, nor care for them. Why do you think there are so many horrible parents, and cases of child abuse and neglect ?


Maternal and Paternal urges are only strong in some people, dare I say non-existant in some.





Originally posted by DigiMark007
But if we weren't genetically predisposed to it (the vast, vast majority of us), chances are we wouldn't even be here talking about it.


Even if we were not genetically pre-disposed to want to pro-create, we would still be horny. There is more to sex than procreation, even though evolution tends to lead us to that direction.






Originally posted by DigiMark007
As for the sexual preference distinctions you mentioned, there's about 125 known genes that control aspects of sexuality, from physical and mental arousal based on certain characteristics (why we like blondes over brunettes, for example) to our sexual preference. Some of these genes might make their host lean more toward homosexuality, some hetero. Some could be turned off until puberty, or until a certain stimulus appears. Some switch as they intereact with other genes. And at any one time, it is unlikely that all of these genes are either one way or the other. In homosexuals, it's likely that the majority will be triggered toward that side. The same holds true for heterosexuals, and this is obviously what the majority is.



Very Interesting thumb up



Sexuality, to me, is far more complicated than just "gay or straight"



I know quite a few guys who identity as straight, but have had sexual interaction with other guys, or atleast fantasized about it. Yet they still feel they are straight. Ask Alliance for example. He will tell you, he is a straight guy, but he has thought about experiences with other men with pleasure, not disgust.


I consider myself Gay, but I have had sex with girls in the past, and I have had huge crushes on girls as well, still do today. I simply prefer men.

My freind MJ considers herself straight, but she has had sexual experiences with other girls, but she does NOT consider herself "bisexual" by any means.

I even hooked up with a "homo-thug". A guy who has a girlfreind, a macho persona, and considers himself straight, but he takes pleasure in sexually dominating other guys. He will never say he is "Gay" though. He's "straight", according to his own standards.


And then, there are even gay men, who do not like women, who marry women, who have never had a sexual encounter with another men, but still have sexual desire for other men.


And so on and so on.


We polarize sexuality, but to me it's a spectrum, not a checker board.





Originally posted by DigiMark007
But (and here's the important part) if the majority of the population's genes weren't hetero, and weren't predisposed toward procreating, the species would have been in trouble thousands of years ago. That in no way invalidates homosexuality. It's merely a natural variation, and also a personal choice. But I'm talking primarily about the detached genetic factors of all this, not necessarily the personal chocie level (which is also very present in any equation).



The only reason that confuses me is because there are homosexuals who want children- thier own biological children.

Even though sex is the key to procreation, I don't feel that's the goal of sex. Sex also promotes unity, and rank.


Did you know that in wolf packs, only the Alpha Male and Alpha Female are allowed to have sex ?

The other wolves stay virgin thier entire life. Look it up, if you don't beleive me.

Sex is a phenomena far more complicated than just a tool of procreation.





Originally posted by DigiMark007
As for the verification of all this, I'm speaking primarily to the research of geneticist Alfred Kinsey. Any of his works on gender and sexuality will extrapolate on these things.



I will look him up, this sounds interesting, but I do not think he sees the whole picture.


Human Sexuality is highly complicated, but if you look at Animal Sexuality, it's not so simple either.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Please excuse my opening statement. I was not attacking you, I was just in humorous mood.

thumb up

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
However, not all of us have these tendencies. Not all people are parent material. Would you agree or disagree ?

Agree absolutely. But most are, or would like to be.


Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Even if we were not genetically pre-disposed to want to pro-create, we would still be horny. There is more to sex than procreation, even though evolution tends to lead us to that direction.

But what is being horny except the urge to engage in sexual acts? It's one of the chemical by-products I was talking about, and specifically is the genetic predisposition toward procreation. If it's with a person of the same gender, I discussed those variables earlier. But "horny-ness" is one of the factors, without a doubt. If we never got horny, would we want to have kids as much? Not likely.

You're talking about the choice to procreate, which is different than our genetics.


Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Sexuality, to me, is far more complicated than just "gay or straight"

....

And so on and so on.

We polarize sexuality, but to me it's a spectrum, not a checker board.

Actually, this was one of the biggest implications of Kinsey's work, and you're absolutely right to label it a spectrum.


Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
The only reason that confuses me is because there are homosexuals who want children- thier own biological children.

But sexual preference and the desire to have biological children aren't tied together gentically. So this is an example of people whose genes are contradicting, but it is simply another spot on the spectrum, metaphorically speaking.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Even though sex is the key to procreation, I don't feel that's the goal of sex. Sex also promotes unity, and rank.

Did you know that in wolf packs, only the Alpha Male and Alpha Female are allowed to have sex ?

This isn't the only species like that. Elephants are another notable example of very few males mating with numerous females, as well as various African jungle cats and many tribes of apes. In most ant and bee species, the entire group comes from a single mother. It actually still stems back to genetic properties. Dawkins' The Selfish Gene actually discusses animals just like this and explains how it comes to be like this, and how genetic factors play a role in the dominance of certain animals, as well as how evolution fostered mutual altruism and trust between mates....the pre-cursors to what we call Love in today's culture.

As always, there is a social and cognitive aspect to love, mating, etc. that goes beyond genes. But far more than most realize has been determined for us by the eons of evolution that preceded us, and most of our societal conventions about love are set upon this base.

Kelly_Bean
Not everyone gets hurt by love, hence, why old married couples have grown old together and would like to be buried right beside each other in their graves for all eternity. smile

chillmeistergen
Surely, the point of love is to accept that you could well get hurt, but deny that fact any control over your relationship.

To be in love, is to ignore the possibility, for the appreciation of the moment.

~Forever*Alone~
love does not exist, theres your answer.

Kelly_Bean
Originally posted by ~Forever*Alone~
love does not exist, theres your answer.
Quit being like that. roll eyes (sarcastic)

lord xyz
Originally posted by ~Forever*Alone~
love does not exist, theres your answer. I agree.

leonheartmm
love does exist.

Mindship
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

People do a lot of things that are hurtful, and all for the same reason: the positive > negative. Besides, in the long term, not falling in love hurts worse.

lord xyz
Originally posted by leonheartmm
love does exist. What definition of love are you using?

SpearofDestiny
Love does exist, Lord xyz simply dislikes the general-over-used "meant to be" definition of love.

Defiant1
Think of creatures that are blind, but those who see know that the colors are there. Some people are blind to what love truly is.
Now imagine that a creator out there that loves us, yet we do not acknowledge that and love him. Perhaps when we all learn to see him and love him, we will learn how to love others and be loved.

Love is not what you get out of a relationship, love is what you give to it. True love is a choice, not a feeling. The feeling is just a reward for doing what our creator wants us to do. How many parents have listened to their kids scream "I hate you" when the child didn't get what they wanted? Yet the parent still chooses to love their child. They make that choice and because they make that choice, the love is eventually reciprocated again.

The world is what we make it. If we have no respect for another person's affections, we will all go out and continue hurting others.

Too many people see love as possession. It has nothing to do with that. Love should be treated more as a respect for another. An honor to them. Instead we treat people as property and we try to control them. Why not learn from them instead? Even very misguided people can have some wonderful strengths that get them through life.

Learn from love, don't try to box it up. If you do that, you will have it forever.... even if the person who inspires goes a different direction.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No one likes to be hurt. Physically nor mentality. And you know relationships don't last. Why struggle to find love and happiness with another person? When there is a high chance that person might hurt your feelings in the future? Do we really have sadistic desires? Are we really beings that enjoy pain? Is that why we fall in love?

Come on you Romantics come here and correct me. wink Because there is a chance that you will find your TRUE partner, the person you are supposed to be with, the person that you spend the rest of your life with.

Think of the failed relationships as trial and error.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by lord xyz
What definition of love are you using?

huh? love, as in LOVE. when your self stops mattering. your willing to die for the other person. you possibly have a bond with te other person. youd die before let a hair on the one be plucked. euphoria. exquisite extremes of joy that are unparalleled and thought impossible in everyday life{when ur with em}.

get it.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Defiant1
Think of creatures that are blind, but those who see know that the colors are there. Some people are blind to what love truly is.
Now imagine that a creator out there that loves us, yet we do not acknowledge that and love him. Perhaps when we all learn to see him and love him, we will learn how to love others and be loved.

Love is not what you get out of a relationship, love is what you give to it. True love is a choice, not a feeling. The feeling is just a reward for doing what our creator wants us to do. How many parents have listened to their kids scream "I hate you" when the child didn't get what they wanted? Yet the parent still chooses to love their child. They make that choice and because they make that choice, the love is eventually reciprocated again.

The world is what we make it. If we have no respect for another person's affections, we will all go out and continue hurting others.

Too many people see love as possession. It has nothing to do with that. Love should be treated more as a respect for another. An honor to them. Instead we treat people as property and we try to control them. Why not learn from them instead? Even very misguided people can have some wonderful strengths that get them through life.

Learn from love, don't try to box it up. If you do that, you will have it forever.... even if the person who inspires goes a different direction.

You should work for Hallmark. People love that mushy stuff.

31

lord xyz
Originally posted by leonheartmm
huh? love, as in LOVE. when your self stops mattering. your willing to die for the other person. you possibly have a bond with te other person. youd die before let a hair on the one be plucked. euphoria. exquisite extremes of joy that are unparalleled and thought impossible in everyday life{when ur with em}.

get it. That's devotion...

leonheartmm
Originally posted by lord xyz
That's devotion...


i forgot to mention. youd melt if the other person took u in their arms, or maybe even gave u a meaningful look or showed interest. ud die if kissed{figuratively}, n u forgot the joy part, ud die{literally} if ur not with ur mate, u wanna spend ur entire life with em.

devotion is a big part of it. but then there euphoria, passion, insanity, pain, n htings which cant be described in words. joy, the works. u know.

lord xyz
Originally posted by leonheartmm
i forgot to mention. youd melt if the other person took u in their arms, or maybe even gave u a meaningful look or showed interest. ud die if kissed{figuratively}, n u forgot the joy part, ud die{literally} if ur not with ur mate, u wanna spend ur entire life with em.

devotion is a big part of it. but then there euphoria, passion, insanity, pain, n htings which cant be described in words. joy, the works. u know. ...Affection, satisfaction?

Let me rephrase my original question:

What kind of love are we talking about here: Love as in doing anything for someone/something to keep it doing what it does?

debbiejo
Okay, Love sees what is unseen, and it knows what no other knows....love is a secret thing.......It is so, because the heart is a secret thing that may not share. But outward love is a telling thing that others can see.........thus love is a energy that can be ignored or not......it just is what can feel..........With that, it can hurt you. And with that you may let it do so...It is your choice.......

SpearofDestiny
Love is blind

And it will take over ur mind


what u think is love

is truly not


u need to elevate and finnd


love is blind

leonheartmm
Originally posted by lord xyz
...Affection, satisfaction?

Let me rephrase my original question:

What kind of love are we talking about here: Love as in doing anything for someone/something to keep it doing what it does?


affection/joy/adoration{if thats a word}/passion/fondness/selflessness/inability to see the other suffer/desire to please the others.

all of these things define part of love but none of them ARE love. love is a unique fealing whihc can not bedefined completely based on other definition{or with their help}. that is why it has the unique name "LOVE". its like telling sum1 to give the definition of existance. you cud say lack of non existance. but then when asked to define non existance, ud say lack of existance right? it becomes ultimately circular. that is why the word is there to hint at defining sumthing basically abstract.

and maybe it wud help if u didnt look at things from such an inanimate perspective like they were robots or systems of entropy or sumthing.

lord xyz
Originally posted by leonheartmm
affection/joy/adoration{if thats a word}/passion/fondness/selflessness/inability to see the other suffer/desire to please the others.

all of these things define part of love but none of them ARE love. love is a unique fealing whihc can not bedefined completely based on other definition{or with their help}. that is why it has the unique name "LOVE". its like telling sum1 to give the definition of existance. you cud say lack of non existance. but then when asked to define non existance, ud say lack of existance right? it becomes ultimately circular. that is why the word is there to hint at defining sumthing basically abstract.

and maybe it wud help if u didnt look at things from such an inanimate perspective like they were robots or systems of entropy or sumthing. Existance: What is.

Inanimate? No. Love isn't undefinable. Love is like to the point you think it's perfect. Nothing more. I would've said that sooner, but couldn't find a good way to explain it. Also, this is more fun.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Love is blind

And it will take over ur mind


what u think is love

is truly not


u need to elevate and finnd


love is blind I agree, liking something that much is very bad, unless it's mutual.

leonheartmm
love is ultimately undefineable. YES thats veyr true. obviously it has certain features which can be generalised to give it some resemblance of form, but no, it isnt really DEFINEABLE.

lord xyz
Love is like to the point you think it's perfect. Or, to expand on that:

Love is like to the point you think it's perfect, and being with it, is the best you could be.

Likewise:

Hate is dislike to the point you think it's anti-perfect, and being with it, is the worst you could be.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by lord xyz
Love is like to the point you think it's perfect. Or, to expand on that:

Love is like to the point you think it's perfect, and being with it, is the best you could be.

Likewise:

Hate is dislike to the point you think it's anti-perfect, and being with it, is the worst you could be.

"your" definition. not saying it doesnt hold in a lot of cases. but ultimately, its one of the nearly infinite number which try to define love.

ill give you an example. linda goodman{author of "love signs"} defines it through the zodiac{n its a pretty nice and general definition}



now how much of the above you buy, doesnt matter, but other than perhaps the connection to the zodiac{which is based in faith and cud be signifying more than factual}. u cant say there isnt truth to every statement there. perhaps not ultimate truth, but truth nonetheless. yet even that cant DEFINE love in itself. just TRY and define it in one way or another.

it is ultimately undefineable and mysterious.

lord xyz
Originally posted by leonheartmm
now how much of the above you buy, none. The Zodiac is a myth.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
just TRY and define it in one way or another. Originally posted by lord xyz
Love is like to the point you think it's perfect. Or, to expand on that:

Love is like to the point you think it's perfect, and being with it, is the best you could be.

Likewise:

Hate is dislike to the point you think it's anti-perfect, and being with it, is the worst you could be.

leonheartmm
i was referring more to the statements about what love is.

Captain King
As someone who has very little compassion and "love", I believe I should be one of the people who's opinion is most considerd.

The point of the excersize isn't nesscarly to feel good, but to feel. Feeling is nature's way of keeping us in reality. Without feeling, we wouldn't know if we were being burned alive.

Well, just as we have physiqual feeling to warn us of eminent danger, so to do we have emotional feelings. When we feel hurt emotionaly, that's our natural insticts to avoid it again. Not to say we need to avoid love, as then we wouldn't feel anything. And that's not bennefical to you either.

The point is to minimize the threat and maxmimize the goods.


Now how to go about doing that is increddibly difficult, but it is acheivable. Notice some people are happy as clams. Not to say they never feel hurt, but they're generaly happier then you. Thus that makes them more succesful then you.


Unless you dope yourself out you're going to feel emotions anyway. Maybe not broken heart syndrome, but you're still going to feel jealousy, anger, fear, depression, desire, and a slew of other shit.


So, you may as well go looking for someone to knock boots with. And this is from someone who just brokeup with his girlfriend. I try to avoid feeling sorry for myself, i'm not the only person in the God-damn world who's had a skank for a girlfriend, and I ceartainly won't be the last.

It's my duty to minimize my pain and maximize my happyness.

Which conviently comes in the form of making my ex a miserable, hallow, shell of a person.

If we can feel horrible from a breakup, that just proves how good we can feel in a relationship. I can assume that as upset as I fealt at the peak of breakup is comparible to the volume of euphoria I will feel when I meet the right person. And I don't believe in all that soul-mate shit. But I do believe there's someone out there who isn't a total ***** and will marry and stay with me.

lancethebrave
Love is a feeling... an extremely complicated feeling as sometimes people do not like who they love yet love them just the same... it takes many forms... it cannot be truly defined as it is not instinct, but something else... it is not happiness but something greater, it is not sadness but something... far worse... love is... love

lord xyz
Originally posted by Captain King
As someone who has very little compassion and "love", I believe I should be one of the people who's opinion is most considerd.

The point of the excersize isn't nesscarly to feel good, but to feel. Feeling is nature's way of keeping us in reality. Without feeling, we wouldn't know if we were being burned alive.

Well, just as we have physiqual feeling to warn us of eminent danger, so to do we have emotional feelings. When we feel hurt emotionaly, that's our natural insticts to avoid it again. Not to say we need to avoid love, as then we wouldn't feel anything. And that's not bennefical to you either.

The point is to minimize the threat and maxmimize the goods.


Now how to go about doing that is increddibly difficult, but it is acheivable. Notice some people are happy as clams. Not to say they never feel hurt, but they're generaly happier then you. Thus that makes them more succesful then you.


Unless you dope yourself out you're going to feel emotions anyway. Maybe not broken heart syndrome, but you're still going to feel jealousy, anger, fear, depression, desire, and a slew of other shit.


So, you may as well go looking for someone to knock boots with. And this is from someone who just brokeup with his girlfriend. I try to avoid feeling sorry for myself, i'm not the only person in the God-damn world who's had a skank for a girlfriend, and I ceartainly won't be the last.

It's my duty to minimize my pain and maximize my happyness.

Which conviently comes in the form of making my ex a miserable, hallow, shell of a person.

If we can feel horrible from a breakup, that just proves how good we can feel in a relationship. I can assume that as upset as I fealt at the peak of breakup is comparible to the volume of euphoria I will feel when I meet the right person. And I don't believe in all that soul-mate shit. But I do believe there's someone out there who isn't a total ***** and will marry and stay with me. Not a bad post.

debbiejo
I believe this: We were put here to have fun and enjoy ourselves as long as we don't intentionally hurt anyone else.......sooooo. Love and live!

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Captain King
As someone who has very little compassion and "love", I believe I should be one of the people who's opinion is most considerd.

The point of the excersize isn't nesscarly to feel good, but to feel. Feeling is nature's way of keeping us in reality. Without feeling, we wouldn't know if we were being burned alive.

Well, just as we have physiqual feeling to warn us of eminent danger, so to do we have emotional feelings. When we feel hurt emotionaly, that's our natural insticts to avoid it again. Not to say we need to avoid love, as then we wouldn't feel anything. And that's not bennefical to you either.

The point is to minimize the threat and maxmimize the goods.


Now how to go about doing that is increddibly difficult, but it is acheivable. Notice some people are happy as clams. Not to say they never feel hurt, but they're generaly happier then you. Thus that makes them more succesful then you.


Unless you dope yourself out you're going to feel emotions anyway. Maybe not broken heart syndrome, but you're still going to feel jealousy, anger, fear, depression, desire, and a slew of other shit.


So, you may as well go looking for someone to knock boots with. And this is from someone who just brokeup with his girlfriend. I try to avoid feeling sorry for myself, i'm not the only person in the God-damn world who's had a skank for a girlfriend, and I ceartainly won't be the last.

It's my duty to minimize my pain and maximize my happyness.

Which conviently comes in the form of making my ex a miserable, hallow, shell of a person.

If we can feel horrible from a breakup, that just proves how good we can feel in a relationship. I can assume that as upset as I fealt at the peak of breakup is comparible to the volume of euphoria I will feel when I meet the right person. And I don't believe in all that soul-mate shit. But I do believe there's someone out there who isn't a total ***** and will marry and stay with me.

but what if you were in a relationship with sum1 who you loved? and the love was reciprocated? and yet for various reasons, you two were extremely miserabl because of it? would you leave???

i think there is no point to being happy or not "suffering" if your not alive to begin with. without love, the very THING that you are trying to make happy/save from suffering in yourself, dies.

debbiejo
Oh and let me add, to thyn own self be true. big grin

leonheartmm
but, the problem is. when you love sumeone, you want to live, and hence be true for/to THEM.

~Forever*Alone~
is it predetermined that love will hurt? i have never experienced this emotion, and if i have its been so long ago, for such a short time in my life....

it is not human nature though...? human nature is to pass on ones genetics, which really has nothing to do with love, simply security in the fact that your mate is able to reproduce....

leonheartmm
humans being's biological nature at its basic might be perpetuating genes. but it doesnt hold true for intellectual/emotional/spiritual nature. i think its also in our nature to DO sumthing with the life that we are trying to hard to perpetuate.

SelphieT
Love......

I'm still going to try for Brendan. I basically gave up on the idea, until someone encouraged me.

I'll probably just end up hurting even more, but that's a chance you have to take, to make someone else happy..... and even yourself.

yvonnekarate
I guess the hope of being loved is greater than the fear of getting hurt. I believe it's better to have love and lost, than never have loved at all. And yes, I'm a romantic person. wink

Regards, Yvonne

lord xyz
I've never experienced love or romance, and it's killing me. Probably conformitism or the affects of society, but I so want a meaningful relationship.

SelphieT
Originally posted by lord xyz
I've never experienced love or romance, and it's killing me. Probably conformitism or the affects of society, but I so want a meaningful relationship.

I haven't experienced it either, and I don't really want to. I guess I'm just scared of falling in infatuation. Like doing something with a certain someone, and then realizing I didn't love them, or they didn't love me, and totally regretting whatever was done.

But it does get lonely, and it hurts a lot sometimes. Having no one to hold while everyone around you does....... I hate that feeling.

So that's why I'm going to try with Brendan again. Even if it breaks my heart trying, I'm going to put effort in it at least, and hopefully I'll be able to look back at the moment with pride, or some kind of happiness.

lord xyz
Originally posted by SelphieT
I haven't experienced it either, and I don't really want to. I guess I'm just scared of falling in infatuation. Like doing something with a certain someone, and then realizing I didn't love them, or they didn't love me, and totally regretting whatever was done.

But it does get lonely, and it hurts a lot sometimes. Having no one to hold while everyone around you does....... I hate that feeling.

So that's why I'm going to try with Brendan again. Even if it breaks my heart trying, I'm going to put effort in it at least, and hopefully I'll be able to look back at the moment with pride, or some kind of happiness. Yeah, I need to try aswell, I'm doing really bad, but and time's running out, but I'm sure it'll happen.

the welsh one
Originally posted by lord xyz
Yeah, I need to try aswell, I'm doing really bad, but and time's running out, but I'm sure it'll happen.

im not looking for 'that certain one' but do you htink that society pushes these things onto us?like having to fall in love than get married than having kids etc

lord xyz
Originally posted by the welsh one
im not looking for 'that certain one' but do you htink that society pushes these things onto us?like having to fall in love than get married than having kids etc It's probable. Still, I do urge for that special someone.

the welsh one
but why,just because you feel you need someone?

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