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who wins?

"Know my name and fear it, I am ONSLAUGHT!"

Onslaught easily wins this one in my book.

this is ridiculous, surfer is just an ant compared to onslaught

not really mindless hulk was able to crack onslaught
and i never saw hulk giving ss a hard time

Originally posted by leonheartmm
this is ridiculous, surfer is just an ant compared to onslaught
Keep thinking that.............

i wouldn't say and ant exactly . . .

i've always thought of onslaught as approaching/equalling skyfather level. others will claim he is much higher. believe what you will, but based on what i've seen he would certainly take out norrin radd . . .

Onslaught w/Magneto and Xavier would win 8/10
Onslaught w/Magneto/Xavier/Nate Grey- 9/10
Onslaught w/Franklin/Magneto/Xavier/Nate Grey- 10/10

Originally posted by jacobo0o
not really mindless hulk was able to crack onslaught
and i never saw hulk giving ss a hard time

The thing is, he didn't beat Onslaught at all, not even close. That was just armor housing his real energy, it wasn't his body at all.

Strength wise, fist to fist, Hulk would take down Surfer. Surfer relies on cosmic power, not strength. So can't judge it on those two fighting.

Originally posted by supervenom
The thing is, he didn't beat Onslaught at all, not even close. That was just armor housing his real energy, it wasn't his body at all.

Strength wise, fist to fist, Hulk would take down Surfer. Surfer relies on cosmic power, not strength. So can't judge it on those two fighting.

i hate this sort of match up SS wields cosmic powers no mather what onslaught does he's still jus a comibanation of 2 mutants thats all what can he do against a herald of big G? its jus foolish

ive come to the conclusion that kmc forums is RULED by fanboys, it is only here that u find people who think its ridiculous even to pit onslaught against the OH SO GREAT POWER OF SILVER SURFER, when it can easily be argued that onslaught was near lower level abstract power level n could easily take out galactus.

Originally posted by tiakocom
i hate this sort of match up SS wields cosmic powers no mather what onslaught does he's still jus a comibanation of 2 mutants thats all what can he do against a herald of big G? its jus foolish

Onslaught is purely psionic energy. He is a creation by itself and exists outside of Xavier and Magneto. Just think of Onslaught as a creation between two mens minds. Much like a baby is a creation of a male and female, but physically speaking. Onslaught has his own conciousness.

He could take out Galactus if no one retcons the entire saga, which a lot of comic readers wished would happen. I personally like the guy.

onslaught was definately one of the coolest n most serious supervillians in marvel

Originally posted by leonheartmm
onslaught was definately one of the coolest n most serious supervillians in marvel

The bad thing about it was how Cyttorak was displayed as a big Juggernaut. A lot of things didn't go well in terms of keeping it together, but I do like Onslaught. I personally see him as one of the strongest beings ever, but like I said, most comic lovers will say it doesn't count because he should be retconned.


"Know my name and fear it, I AM ONSLAUGHT!"

Originally posted by leonheartmm
onslaught was definately one of the coolest n most serious supervillians in marvel


Which is why they killed him off so quick.
With Franklin Richards Onslaught is a beast. Considering that Franklin might be a little celestial himself, and adding X-man, Charles, and Magneto to the mix, its just too much for SS.

actually, franklin has showed potential and power far beyond that of the celestials n the abstracts n infinite gauntlett for that matter

This is kind of off topic, but why does Marvel (and DC for that matter) always seem to be increasing the power level of characters? Just about every single character has recieved some kind of upgrade, and then you have characters like Franklin Richards who is so powerful its stupid. Not every character should be given the "Phoenix" treatment; what the hell happened to creativity? Enought of my rant. Onslaught wins.

Originally posted by TheKahn
This is kind of off topic, but why does Marvel (and DC for that matter) always seem to be increasing the power level of characters? Just about every single character has recieved some kind of upgrade, and then you have characters like Franklin Richards who is so powerful its stupid. Not every character should be given the "Phoenix" treatment; what the hell happened to creativity? Enought of my rant. Onslaught wins.

I agree, but I believe that they have nothing new to come up with. I mean, how many times can you live seeing Magneto going up against the X-Men? They need to add twists here and there, as well as more powerful characters in order for the good guys to add more power to themselves.

However, when I see such things I wonder...It's like in DragonBall. Frieze was like the most powerful being, and it took just the transformation of SS1 to beat him. Then you go on to other beings, like Buu or something, and if you compare old frieza to him, it's up like 100 notches. That is when I find it stupid. Sooner or later, he will be like a speck of dust.

We'll prolly see someone stronger than TOAA.

Can you say Wolverine Prime???

Originally posted by TheKahn
Can you say Wolverine Prime???

Bah, did he spend 1000s of years in an Adamantium chamber?

Originally posted by TheKahn
Can you say Wolverine Prime??? or wolverine primo

Originally posted by supervenom
Bah, did he spend 1000s of years in an Adamantium chamber?

Yes, and every molecule in his body was bonded to the nigh-indestructible Adamantium. Unfortunally, he is now an immovable statue. But when his mega-ultra-uber healing factor evolves a way for him to move, the pigeons of the universe will rue the day the dared to poop on Wolverine Prime!!!!!!111

Onslaught wins

Originally posted by DrDoom101
Onslaught w/Magneto and Xavier would win 8/10
Ummm, not sure I agree with that....

full potential onslought would win and even not at full potential this is the guy who threw juggernaut like a few thousand miles into another country right, and then later tore the ruby of cyttorak out of him. SS is strong but can he take a hit from Thor and act as if it was a fly hitting against him cause Juggs can but Onslought owned juggs so i dont see SS fairing well in this battle at all.

kahn I love your observation of how their doing things in marvel and dc. I hate all the power upgrades. by the way just for the record onslaught wanted Hulk to break his armor, he could have killed him at any time. Reed explains this in the very next page yet people keep saying enraged hulk>onslaught magneto/Prof.X/franklen richareds/x-man well I don't i'm going to convince anyone who is too stupid to interpert such things so, all I can say is that onslaught in any form beats silver surfer but not all the time I agree with Dr. Doom101 rates for for this.

Originally posted by Wally West
Ummm, not sure I agree with that....

agreed, without x man and franklin he is still badass, but not as badass

this might be a good fight actually :P

not true, this is a RIDICULOUS fight, onslaugth is so far above surfer thats its stupid to even pit em up let alone vote for surfer!

even before he was joined to nate gray and franklin richards he was able to smack juggernaut who's durability makes surfer's look like a joke all the way from canada to the USA from what i can remeber then later when they met he tore the very power source from his body im so very sure SS could do that.........oh yeah no he cant.

Onslaught takes SS down.

Onslaught wins this, the advengers w/thor, hulk, the x-men, juggy, and the fantastic four couldent touch onslught.. sufer would get crushed if he faces all those guys.

Originally posted by Mider
even before he was joined to nate gray and franklin richards he was able to smack juggernaut who's durability makes surfer's look like a joke all the way from canada to the USA from what i can remeber then later when they met he tore the very power source from his body im so very sure SS could do that.........oh yeah no he cant.

no, probably not, but surfer isnt a physical powerhouse like onslaught

im not sure of his telekenetic abilities or resistance, but on speed and energy projection SS>>>>>>Mags/X

Not to mention he has his own reality manipulation powers

dont count the man out

I dont think he wins, but he would give stage 1 onslaught a run for his money (namely because at stage 1 onslaught wasn't sure of his own abilities or powers, like how he faints in Onslaught:X-men after fighting just a handful of X-men)

Savage Hulk cracked Onslaught, not Mindless.

Surfer is the most versitle hero ever (next to Hal Jordan, of course.)However, Surfer lacks the reality warping power that Onslaught possesses, and in terms of sheer power, Surfer is utterly outmatched. Onslaught is easily above Skyfather caliber. Surfer's toast.

Originally posted by Mider
even before he was joined to nate gray and franklin richards he was able to smack juggernaut who's durability makes surfer's look like a joke all the way from canada to the USA from what i can remeber then later when they met he tore the very power source from his body im so very sure SS could do that.........oh yeah no he cant.

Continuity lapse. The gem was never inside of Cain's body.

Savage Hulk busting open Onslaught just shows how strong he could really become. No other superhero could duplicate that type of force. Not even Surfer. Surfer is probably one of the most powerful superheroes ever, but I agree that he is out of his league.

I think that Onslaught did that to Juggernaut right after he was created and still tied to Xavier (i.e. without Franklin and Nate.)

Originally posted by TheKahn
I think that Onslaught did that to Juggernaut right after he was created and still tied to Xavier (i.e. without Franklin and Nate.)

how much trouble do you think surfer would have with juggs though?

apples to apples people, cha'mon

well a god force blast doesnt even scratch juggernaut and when surfer got hit by one he was ko'd also thors hammer bounces off juggernaut like a rubber ball while he stands there smiling and even thanos gets knocked back by the hammer of thor. Even galactus has been shown unable to break the bands of cyttorak since dr strange used them on him i think that juggernaut has the power of those bands since i think thats part of the incantation who so ever possesses this gem prepares himself to reveice the power of the crimson bands of cyttorak or whatever.

Originally posted by Mider
well a god force blast doesnt even scratch juggernaut and when surfer got hit by one he was ko'd also thors hammer bounces off juggernaut like a rubber ball while he stands there smiling and even thanos gets knocked back by the hammer of thor. Even galactus has been shown unable to break the bands of cyttorak since dr strange used them on him i think that juggernaut has the power of those bands since i think thats part of the incantation who so ever possesses this gem prepares himself to reveice the power of the crimson bands of cyttorak or whatever.

Juggernaut is physically invincible, Mider. Surfer is not. We all know this. Why are you comparing Surfer's durability to Juggernaut's physical invincibility? Isn't it a bit redundant?

Onslaught ripping the gem out of Cain's chest was stupid. Really. The gem was never in his chest. Without some sort of reality warping power, the feat would be impossible.

here is the best info i could find at the moment and i dont even think he's at full potential at this stage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Man

Originally posted by inamilist
how much trouble do you think surfer would have with juggs though?

apples to apples people, cha'mon

Juggernaut would never touch Surfer. However, without use of telepathy, Surfer would be unable to affect Juggernaut either.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Juggernaut would never touch Surfer. However, without use of telepathy, Surfer would be unable to affect Juggernaut either. Disagree, but thats not the point here, the point is that Onslaught loss to a bunch of mutants, Surfer has taken out an elder god.........Onslaught couldnt even contain earth, how is he gonna contain a cosmic???

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Juggernaut would never touch Surfer. However, without use of telepathy, Surfer would be unable to affect Juggernaut either.

ya, thats what the apples to apples thing was all about

its pretty pointless to say onslaught physically roughed up juggs, as juggs is an entire differant kettle of fish than SS

I dont think anyone however is saying surfer stands a chance once either X man or franklin are brought into the picture

BTW, how resistant to TK is surfer?

onslought only lost due to PIS he was beating everyone it was when people began jumping into his energy being that he was being messed up and no mutants could jump in cause it was theorized that if a mutant did jump in he would become unstoppable and ive already said i dont see SS tearing the ruby of cyttorak out of juggernaut.

Originally posted by King KAM
Disagree, but thats not the point here, the point is that Onslaught loss to a bunch of mutants, Surfer has taken out an elder god.........Onslaught couldnt even contain earth, how is he gonna contain a cosmic???

Onslaught "lost" to the combined force of Franklin Richards, the Savage Hulk and the non-mutant heroes of Earth. He created a second sun, for Christ's sake. Did you read the Onslaught Saga?

What elder god did Surfer defeat?

Originally posted by Mider
onslought only lost due to PIS he was beating everyone it was when people began jumping into his energy being that he was being messed up and no mutants could jump in cause it was theorized that if a mutant did jump in he would become unstoppable and ive already said i dont see SS tearing the ruby of cyttorak out of juggernaut.

thats because surfer wouldnt rely on his str to beat juggs like onslaught

even with invulnerability, juggs becomes an eternal moving target for SS to practice with

Originally posted by King KAM
Disagree, but thats not the point here, the point is that Onslaught loss to a bunch of mutants, Surfer has taken out an elder god.........Onslaught couldnt even contain earth, how is he gonna contain a cosmic???


Onslaught lost because he was a temporary character. The only reason they created him was so that they could have an near all-powerful villian that would require the heroes to "sacrafice" their lives to defeat and start the whole "Heroes Reborn" line. Marvel never intended him to be permanent character.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Onslaught "lost" to the combined force of Franklin Richards, the Savage Hulk and the non-mutant heroes of Earth. He created a second sun, for Christ's sake. Did you read the Onslaught Saga?

What elder god did Surfer defeat? he has defeated the runner, in their re-match. And the onlsaught saga was more garbage than the house of M, onslaught is a walking plot device, who isnt a spec on any cosmics ass.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Onslaught lost because he was a temporary character. The only reason they created him was so that they could have an near all-powerful villian that would require the heroes to "sacrafice" their lives to defeat and start the whole "Heroes Reborn" line. Marvel never intended him to be permanent character.

co-sign

(I still think he kicked ass though)

Originally posted by Mider
onslought only lost due to PIS he was beating everyone it was when people began jumping into his energy being that he was being messed up and no mutants could jump in cause it was theorized that if a mutant did jump in he would become unstoppable and ive already said i dont see SS tearing the ruby of cyttorak out of juggernaut.

Onslaught shouldn't have been capable of doing it either, since it was never there. But I agree with the notion that Surfer loses.Originally posted by inamilist
ya, thats what the apples to apples thing was all about

its pretty pointless to say onslaught physically roughed up juggs, as juggs is an entire differant kettle of fish than SS

I dont think anyone however is saying surfer stands a chance once either X man or franklin are brought into the picture

BTW, how resistant to TK is surfer?

I don't know, but he does possess some psychic abilities.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Onslaught lost because he was a temporary character. The only reason they created him was so that they could have an near all-powerful villian that would require the heroes to "sacrafice" their lives to defeat and start the whole "Heroes Reborn" line. Marvel never intended him to be permanent character. so then he shouldnt even be counted in this forum considering everything he has done was based on aplot device correct????

Originally posted by King KAM
he has defeated the runner, in their re-match. And the onlsaught saga was more garbage than the house of M, onslaught is a walking plot device, who isnt a spec on any cosmics ass.

Runner is and Elder of The Universe. Not an Elder God. There's an enourmous difference.

Originally posted by King KAM
so then he shouldnt even be counted in this forum considering everything he has done was based on aplot device correct????

Regardless, the Silver Surfer would lose to him.

Originally posted by King KAM
so then he shouldnt even be counted in this forum considering everything he has done was based on aplot device correct????

stop being bitter

you really dont have to debate about it

there are plenty of "acceptable" characters being debated as we speak

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Runner is and Elder of The Universe. Not an Elder God. There's an enourmous difference. he is one of the elder gods, just like the champion is, they are all considered the elder gods and u know it, stop attempting to be pissy.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Regardless, the Silver Surfer would lose to him. WrongOriginally posted by inamilist
stop being bitter

you really dont have to debate about it

there are plenty of "acceptable" characters being debated as we speak not bitter at all, I am simply stating that he lost to a bunch of muties, who cant take silver surfer even if earth was depending on it.

all of you stop fighting surfer also has no buisness beating elders of the universe he's just a freaking herald give me a break he couldnt even handle the gardner and now he's handling the runner oh wow thats funny in a sad and yet funny way.

Originally posted by King KAM
Wrong not bitter at all, I am simply stating that he lost to a bunch of muties, who cant take silver surfer even if earth was depending on it.

i really think you are underrating the onslaught character, though i can see why

the best i could see surfer doing to a final stage onslaught would be breaking his armor and releasing the "pure thought" onslaught

at which point i dont think surfer has a way to harm him

its the "becomes pure telekenetik energy" thing that makes onalsaught the victor in my books, as I'm pretty sure surfer has fought people who are powerful enough to create suns

Originally posted by King KAM
he is one of the elder gods, just like the champion is, they are all considered the elder gods and u know it, stop attempting to be pissy.

They are Elders of the Universe. NOT Elder Gods. The Elder Gods are guys like Atum, Chthon, and Set. Surfer would be eaten alive by any one of them.

Onslaught would spank all of the Elders of the Universe. Together.

Onslaught did not lose to the X-Men. He lost to circumstances.

Surfer. Loses. Accept it.

Originally posted by inamilist
its the "becomes pure telekenetik energy" thing that makes onalsaught the victor in my books, as I'm pretty sure surfer has fought people who are powerful enough to create suns

Such as? I've seen him refuel stars, and even destroy them, but creating them is another matter entirely.

well galactus can become a star if his armer is taken off but he'd die cause it contains his power.

Originally posted by King KAM
so then he shouldnt even be counted in this forum considering everything he has done was based on aplot device correct????

So was Doomsday, the only difference is that DC decided to use him again and Marvel has done the same thing with Onslaught *yet*

SS has defeated a being of pure psionic energy before =-)

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Such as? I've seen him refuel stars, and even destroy them, but creating them is another matter entirely.

no idea

ive seen some of surfers feats, creating a mass of burning hydrogen doesnt seem that outlandish, seeing as he resurected an entire planet

id even venture, given astrophysics, that it is 1000 times harder to destroy a sun than create one

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
SS has defeated a being of pure psionic energy before =-)

as powerful as a combined Xavier and X-man???

im skeptical

Surfer is just outclassed here.

what being of pure energy did surfer beat?

bump that