Saruman: Pure Evil or Corrupted?

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ESB - 1138
Here's a question for the fans of the great works of Tolkien:
Saruman the Many Colours (White for those to lazy to read the books) was a terrible threat to Middle-Earth with his army of uruk-hai but here is the question; was Saruman truly evil or just corrupted by Sauron and the lust for the One Ring?

Council#13
I think he was corrupted by Sauron, because he came to Middle Earth good with no intention of taking over, but in the LOTR trilogy, he seemed to want to take over Middle Earth bad

DanielLB
Originally posted by Council#13
I think he was corrupted by Sauron, because he came to Middle Earth good with no intention of taking over, but in the LOTR trilogy, he seemed to want to take over Middle Earth bad

I agree! Like Morgoth he came to middle-earth not knowing what will happen etc. Morgoth became evil, succeded and taught Sauron.

Sauron became evil, succeded in many cases, and influenced other people.

I say then that Saruman became corrupted just like Sauron did by Morgoth

Exabyte
What, in your opinion, is the definition of "pure evil"? dunce
Or the difference between "pure evil" and "corrupted"?
Is not all evil just a "corrupted" facet of someone?

DanielLB
You have to be corrupted first to become evil, like Faramir says in TTT:

''was he really evil at heary?''

Bar-en-Danwedh
heary evil...

i clicked pure evil for a fun...

Sauron didn't corrupt Saruman, he corrupted himself. That's what the whole 'many colored' thing was all about... he lusted for power. Being head of the white council was not enough... and it was he who found Isildurs body and did god knows what with it.

Darkman87
I do not think that Saruman was affected by Sauron, the dark lord. Just searching for the power, the ring, that was all he wanted. When sauron showed up, he wisely worked for Sauron to have the power. I could not imagine the rest.

bogen
i think ha had his own motives for power and was currupted by thos motives

bonbon
i think he was corrupted because alot of people have evil in them someone or something has to trigger and that was exactly what the dark lord did

Bar-en-Danwedh
Originally posted by Darkman87
I do not think that Saruman was affected by Sauron, the dark lord. Just searching for the power, the ring, that was all he wanted. When sauron showed up, he wisely worked for Sauron to have the power. I could not imagine the rest.

"...if I had it, then you would bow before me and call me Lord. And if I knew where this thing was hid, I should not be here, but long gone before you take it."
-Saurman's voice, on the gate of Isengard, to the witchking when he suspected Saruman had the ring... (unfinished tales)

Saruman wanted the ring for himself all along... he only 'joined' with saruman to stall...but he never truly served him.

...the movies were a bit misleading on this matter

~Mitsurugi~
Originally posted by DanielLB
I agree! Like Morgoth he came to middle-earth not knowing what will happen etc. Morgoth became evil, succeded and taught Sauron.

Sauron became evil, succeded in many cases, and influenced other people.

I say then that Saruman became corrupted just like Sauron did by Morgoth Morgoth was always evil, because of the jealousy he had for his brother.


and on topic, Saruman was not evil when he came to middle earth, but he became obsessed with finding the one ring, he fell to it's allure, and when he found out that Gandlaf was given one of the 3 elven rings he became jealous.

Bar-en-Danwedh
he wasn't evil to start with, but there were a few things that led to it...

the position of white council was originally intended for gandalf, but gandalf was too much of a hippy (not as much as radaghast, but you know)...

then yes, the elven ring thing...

but as i said... he was onto isildur pretty quickly after he fell...

Saruman never even came near the ring... but he wanted it from knowledge of its power...

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Bar-en-Danwedh
"...if I had it, then you would bow before me and call me Lord. And if I knew where this thing was hid, I should not be here, but long gone before you take it."
-Saurman's voice, on the gate of Isengard, to the witchking when he suspected Saruman had the ring... (unfinished tales)

Saruman wanted the ring for himself all along... he only 'joined' with saruman to stall...but he never truly served him.

...the movies were a bit misleading on this matter

They weren't misleading, they were simply different.

(and to be more precise, he didn't think Saruman had the Ring, he thought Saruman knew where it was)

Bar-en-Danwedh
but Saruman clearly took his meaning with enough paranoia to asume that the witchking thought he had it.

vanice

Revolver Ocelot
Saruman was corrupted ever since he first began studying Sauron's Ring of Power (He was the one appointed to the task, being the most powerful of the White Council). By the War of the Ring, he's pure evil. No question about it.

Darth POW
Near the end of the books he starts to become less evil...if someone was pure evil they couldnt really turn good though...but we dont know if he bacomes good again cos wormtongue kills him...

DanielLB
He never looks like he'll turn good! Once your evil....you can never change back sad lol

Blaxican_Hydra
Vader did. Life must suck though...

Vader: I have turned a new leaf! Now I'll live a life of good! A full life with my soon! We'll be so happy I-(Chokes and dies*)

DanielLB
Imagine that. A Dark Lord one day running aroung killing everyone. And then the next day skipping down the road thorwing flowers to his (or hers!) neighbours! hahahabig grinbig grinbig grinsmile

ESB - 1138
Boromir turned from evil (trying to take the ring from Frodo) to good (trying to save Merry and Pimpin)

Deception
More like Boromir couldn't resist the temptation of the Ring, but his heart was good at heart. Boromir wasn't evil at that time, he was moreso ensnared.

Knightfall93
Boromir was NEVER evil, Boromir was a good man who was tempted by the Ring. Saruman was once a good man, but he was corrupted. I believe it was the Palantir, and that perhaps he communicated to Sauron when he was just the necromancer of Mirkwood in the Hobbit...

Darkman87
Originally posted by Knightfall93
Boromir was NEVER evil, Boromir was a good man who was tempted by the Ring. Saruman was once a good man, but he was corrupted. I believe it was the Palantir, and that perhaps he communicated to Sauron when he was just the necromancer of Mirkwood in the Hobbit...

Agreed.

Knightfall93
After all, if Saruman was always evil, why would Gandalf have allowed him to control the Istarii?

Blaxican_Hydra
Sarumon didn't start off evil. If he he was than why would Gandalph, who has an uncanny ability to read people, befriend him? No, Sarumon, like Boromir, was ensnared.

ESB - 1138
Sauron like Saruman became evil. And Sauron started good.

Knightfall93
Did anyone actually bother to read the Silmarillion? that was DREADFUL and boring... it's more like a record than a noivel...

DanielLB
Ive read it! I wouldnt say its boring, just hard to get into. You really have to concentrate to understand it

Blaxican_Hydra
Sauron was good, as was Sarumon AND the mouth of sauron AND Gollum...geeze alot of weak minded people back then. The JEdi would have had a field day back than with all those weak minds...Jedi mind tricks left and right.

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by Blaxican_Hydra
Sauron was good, as was Sarumon AND the mouth of sauron AND Gollum...geeze alot of weak minded people back then. The JEdi would have had a field day back than with all those weak minds...Jedi mind tricks left and right.

No; Sauron, Saruman, and (I guess) the Mouth of Sauron weren't weak minded more weak willed like Anakin.

Revolver Ocelot
After all, if Saruman was always evil, why would Gandalf have allowed him to control the Istarii?

Gandalf allowed nothing. Saruman was his blatant superior, and was thus given control of the Istari and the White Council.

It's true he started out as a good man, but Saruman was being slowly consumed by corruption ever since he began studying the Ring. Gandalf could not sense it until Saruman revealed it to him; Saruman being more powerful even in his "of many colors" state.

vanice
Originally posted by Razielim
Saruman was corrupted ever since he first began studying Sauron's Ring of Power (He was the one appointed to the task, being the most powerful of the White Council). By the War of the Ring, he's pure evil. No question about it.

OK so he became pure evil after studying about the ring... Well then he wasn't evil when he landed in the gray harbors. If you are pure evil you will have to be it all the way throuh your life. (Like stewie in fameli guy) laughing I wouldn't call it evil but he always wanted more and it made him evil in the end.

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