Superman vs. Count Nefaria

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unknowable
Well well this is one is seldom seen,

The man of steel takes on an unusual foe on a deserted indestructable planet.

This won't be easy!!!

unknowable
For those who do not know Count Nefaria here'a a qquick bio.

Count Nefaria possesses the combined powers of the Lethal Legion (Power Man I, Whirlwind, and the Living Laser) multiplied a hundred fold. This entails that he possesses vast superhuman strength; the upward limit of this is unknown, but it must far surpass the threshold of what Marvel calls the "Class 100" Level, easily exceeding 100 tons. For example, Count Nefaria has gone toe-to-toe with a hammer-wielding Thor and lifted a submarine into the air. When he first obtained his power, Count Nefaria could jump great distances (greater than The Hulk's leaping ability), which appeared to be flight. He is now capable of self propelled flight at escape velocity (25,000 mph at least). He has the ability to emit laser-beam-like destructive rays from his eyes, which can cut through titanium armor easily. These powers are derived from the ionic energy housed in his corporeal form. To maintain his powers he must drain other ionic beings. It has been argued that, along with Graviton and the Molecule Man, Nefaria is one of the most powerful human villains alive.


Wow they put this guy with the likes of Molecule Man, Superman has his hands full.

Ex11B
Nefaria is a Badass.

superman420sexy
Supermans speed and eye lazers or whatever(the ones that are hotter than the sun) are more powerful than his. Superman's a lot faster if this guy only flies 25,000 mph. Evenn if he flew twice as fast as that he'd be no where near superman.

BUT he is most likely a lot physically stronger than superman so it could be a stalemate(i think then is when it would go either way for long time?) OR superman could toast him, freeze him, do his whirlwind thing. But ,if he got careless, Neferia could get some very powerful punches in.

Tony Stark
The Count tells Supes to go make him a turkey pot pie *****...

Supes gets owned...

Juntai
Originally posted by Tony Stark
The Count tells Supes to go make him a turkey pot pie *****...

Supes gets owned... ..?

Juntai
Going by that Bio...
25k/mph? He'd need to move 25k/mpSECOND to even begin to close the speed gap.
Stood against Thor? Supes knocked him out.
Lifted a Sub? How about the moon?
Eye beams that can cut titanium? How about eye beams they can't even begin calculate the upper temperature of

Either this guy is a pud, or this bio sucks.
curbstomp.

superman420sexy
yeah juntai's got it right about the power and speed part but if he is 100 times stronger than power man I. How strong is power man?

Scoobless
guys, don't go by that brief description of Nefaria

it says he's "gone toe-to-toe with a hammer-wielding Thor" - the truth is he's taken Thor's most powerful hammer strikes without flinching and he laughed in Thor's face while taking it

the guys strength and durability are unparalleled on Marvel Earth (until Sentry's writer's decide otherwise that is)

superman420sexy
yeah but superman's like thousands of times faster. And I believe power man's strength was like 30 tons, so even being a hundred times that supes prolly is up there in strength with him too.

unknowable
Originally posted by Juntai
Going by that Bio...
25k/mph? He'd need to move 25k/mpSECOND to even begin to close the speed gap.
Stood against Thor? Supes knocked him out.
Lifted a Sub? How about the moon?
Eye beams that can cut titanium? How about eye beams they can't even begin calculate the upper temperature of

Either this guy is a pud, or this bio sucks.
curbstomp.

jeesh, your ferocious...

By the way, is this current or pre?

And I think you know Jun, you don't have to move at superhuman speed to fight superman.

By the way the bio is incomplete, he actually defeated Thor after the fact, I think they word it that way to let us know he did it with his bare hands, while Thor was using the Hammer to NO effect.(Avengers #164)
Not meaning NO effect he's invulnerable to magic, if that's the hammer's thing, meaning he took blowS-excentuating S, from the Hammer being thrown at him and swung at him and he took it due to his bodies toughness.

Just because he's only lifted a submarine on panel doesn't mean that's as strong as he is, I'm sure Superman had a reason for moving that moon(was it current?), while Nefaria only needed to lift a sub. at the time he did.

By the way they don't mention it was an 18,700 Ton submarine he lifted out of the water while it was submerged, which means because of "displacement"(submerged objects fluxuating weight at the point of emergence) that submarine had to weigh much more, on top of that he threw it miles away(doesn't say how many).

As for for Superman's eye beams, well Nefaria took repeated blows from Thor's Hammer unscathed so, he can probably take the heat vision(imo).

unknowable
Originally posted by superman420sexy
yeah juntai's got it right about the power and speed part but if he is 100 times stronger than power man I. How strong is power man?

According to Avengers #164-166, as strong as WonderMan.

unknowable
Originally posted by Scoobless
guys, don't go by that brief description of Nefaria

it says he's "gone toe-to-toe with a hammer-wielding Thor" - the truth is he's taken Thor's most powerful hammer strikes without flinching and he laughed in Thor's face while taking it

the guys strength and durability are unparalleled on Marvel Earth (until Sentry's writer's decide otherwise that is)

Making sense...

unknowable
Originally posted by superman420sexy
yeah but superman's like thousands of times faster. And I believe power man's strength was like 30 tons, so even being a hundred times that supes prolly is up there in strength with him too.

His bio says that, no doubt.

But during the series Avengers#164-166 he fights WonderMan, and at one point WM screams "this can't be, you can't be as strong as I am" then PM knocks WM with a punch that lays him out.

hoorayforpeepee
shame on you juntai.

the Darkone
Count Nefaria will beat him good, a full powered Count Nefaria will kill superman. A FP Count Nefaria is 2-3x streonger than normal Count nefaria and took on avengers and the thunder Bolts at the same time.

Scoobless
Originally posted by the Darkone
Count Nefaria will beat him good, a full powered Count Nefaria will kill superman. A FP Count Nefaria is 2-3x streonger than normal Count nefaria and took on avengers and the thunder Bolts at the same time.

yeah............. but Thor wasn't there, the two teams strongest members were under Nefaria's control (Wonder Man & Atlas) and Iron Man was in a vintage model armour......

still.... it was impressive

the Darkone
Originally posted by Scoobless
yeah............. but Thor wasn't there, the two teams strongest members were under Nefaria's control (Wonder Man & Atlas) and Iron Man was in a vintage model armour......

still.... it was impressive

If thor was there he would've got work too, only way could beat him is to go warrior madness on his ass and that will be the only he can beat count nefaria (FP).

Ex11B
Underrated and underappreciated is what Nefaria is.

Sir Whirlysplat
Originally posted by Scoobless
guys, don't go by that brief description of Nefaria

it says he's "gone toe-to-toe with a hammer-wielding Thor" - the truth is he's taken Thor's most powerful hammer strikes without flinching and he laughed in Thor's face while taking it

the guys strength and durability are unparalleled on Marvel Earth (until Sentry's writer's decide otherwise that is)

No he hasn't Thor, Iron man and Wonderman all hurt him at different times.

Sir Whirlysplat
Originally posted by unknowable
According to Avengers #164-166, as strong as WonderMan.

No he wasn't even after the boost Wonderman knocked Powerman out laughing out loud

thesilverspider
Supes would beat the shit of of that dracula superman clone hybrid.

((The_Anomaly))
Originally posted by unknowable
jeesh, your ferocious...

By the way, is this current or pre?

And I think you know Jun, you don't have to move at superhuman speed to fight superman.

First thats Current. Pre-Crisis Superman could basically do anything he wanted. lol. Rather then him lifting the moon, try having him lift like 5 planets and tow them through space. lol. And speed wise, Pre-Crisis was as fast as he wanted to be pretty well. I'd argue that basically no one in comics could beat Pre-Crisis Superman. Simply because of his absurdity. He used to just make up new powers on the spot. So say he's fighting Silver Surfer (whom would pwn current superman) Pre-Crisis Supes would use an anti-power cosmic beam from his hands or something and beat him...lol (dumb I know, but thats what would happen) and for the record I HATE pre-Crisis Superman. He was basically God. But whatever, hes gone now.

And second. Yes, if people wrote Superman up to his full potential (which they currently dont, generally underusing his speed blitzing capabilities) then you WOULD need to move at super human speeds to fight Superman. Otherwise, how are you going to hit him? He could hit you a few thousand times before you even had any idea what was going on. But no one writes Superman to this potential. Even though by all speed accounts he would easily be capable of doing it.

Fanboy
Forget Count Nefaria the last time I heard he technically got killed by Iron Man when a bunch of Rocks fell on him and Superman would take down Iron Man and use his suit as a trophy for his fortess of solitude.

Fanboy
Forget what I said because I am saying this I think Superman already smacked him down in JLA/Avengers last issue when they were going after Krona and Count Nefaria at the time I thought was some Kingdom Come Superman but just ended up being a clone and Superman beat his ass.

Ex11B
A bunch of Rocks killing Nefaria? laughing laughing laughing

unknowable
anyways what's strength these days when He-Man throws 500+ billion ton mountains around. lol

Fanboy
Originally posted by Ex11B
A bunch of Rocks killing Nefaria? laughing laughing laughing


Dude didn't it happen?

Sixth_Winged
ionic people can't be killed. only dispersed, and nefaria is the worst of them all in which he asplodes like an imperiex probe x100.

that being said, Supes is my boy.......i raised him in a farm and fed him corn all day long till he developed superpowers stick out tongue . Of course he takes this or at least gets a tossup.

unknowable
Originally posted by Fanboy
Dude didn't it happen?

Nonsense, it wasn't that simple.
Don't fall for that Fanboy

unknowable
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
ionic people can't be killed. only dispersed, and nefaria is the worst of them all in which he asplodes like an imperiex probe x100.

that being said, Supes is my boy.......i raised him in a farm and fed him corn all day long till he developed superpowers stick out tongue . Of course he takes this or at least gets a tossup.

Funny anime..

unknowable
Nefaria defeated all the Avengers together and them some.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by unknowable
Nonsense, it wasn't that simple.
Don't fall for that Fanboy

He was KO'ed in the Iron Man Annual 99 when he 'ran out' of ion energy while trying to lift a 'heavy' rock ..... The same size rock gets thrown at superboy and Superman, and they barely flinch ! smile

Current Superman is slightly above Count Nefaria, i belive he more Wonder Woman strength ! smile

unknowable
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
He was KO'ed in the Iron Man Annual 99 when he 'ran out' of ion energy while trying to lift a 'heavy' rock ..... The same size rock gets thrown at superboy and Superman, and they barely flinch ! smile

Current Superman is slightly above Count Nefaria, i belive he more Wonder Woman strength ! smile

What!, what an underestimation..

Nefaria lifted an 18,000+ ton submarine and flinged it, beyond that, took mighty Thor's hammer at full swing and literally didn't flinch.

Your right he was out of ion energy which he must continue to feed on, the only reason he was stoped. But while ionized he was unstoppable, which is when he lifted that Sub out of submerged water, which means like I posted before, it weighed even more due to "displacement"(submerged objects fluxuating weight during emergence). that said,

In this fight they both have their power, and red suns, kryptonite and unionized Nefarias are cut slack.

let them dual without weaknesses, raw power. yea..

Sixth_Winged
Cause that was an earlier appearance of a wuss version of him. The current and new one took on an entire roster of avengers, thor, wonderman and ironman included

unknowable
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Cause that was an earlier appearance of a wuss version of him. The current and new one took on an entire roster of avengers, thor, wonderman and ironman included

wow...

Nefaria rules...

Sir Whirlysplat
Originally posted by unknowable
wow...

Nefaria rules...

Except Supes would own him smile

Ex11B
so everyone says.....

Sir Whirlysplat
Originally posted by Ex11B
so everyone says.....

Yup!

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by unknowable
What!, what an underestimation..

Nefaria lifted an 18,000+ ton submarine and flinged it, beyond that, took mighty Thor's hammer at full swing and literally didn't flinch.

Your right he was out of ion energy which he must continue to feed on, the only reason he was stoped. But while ionized he was unstoppable, which is when he lifted that Sub out of submerged water, which means like I posted before, it weighed even more due to "displacement"(submerged objects fluxuating weight during emergence). that said,

In this fight they both have their power, and red suns, kryptonite and unionized Nefarias are cut slack.

let them dual without weaknesses, raw power. yea..

Superman can lift submarines with his little pinky .... Nefaria cant even brake out of the raft without help ! smile

Sixth_Winged
Once again, that's ol' nef. New one nerfed that Avengers and Thunderbolts combined

Sixth_Winged
here

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
here

You're not familliar with New Avengers, are you ?

smile

Sir Whirlysplat
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
here

And Supes is getting stronger all the time, by the end of Crisis....... Wait and see. shifty

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
You're not familliar with New Avengers, are you ?

smile

big grin

No hype man. Just pure ownage.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
big grin

Yessss i do .... now answer my question my friend, and try and answer it truthfully wink !

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
And Supes is getting stronger all the time, by the end of Crisis....... Wait and see. shifty

I thought it was the other way around(like only going as fast at that train in the cover)..........hrm.........

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Yessss i do .... now answer my question my friend, and try and answer it truthfully wink !

I wanted to but I swore the oath of secrecy sick

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
I wanted to but I swore the oath of secrecy sick

Is that a joke ... sorry im so confused

Any way, my point is .... In the recent New Avengers Series (taking place about 30 comics after the picture you have posted) we where shown Nefaria escaping from the shiled raft prison .... He was unable to do so until electro had 'blown a fuse'.

My point being that he was unable to escape from a shiled prison. As my good friend MR Splatt is pointing Superman is currently becoming as powerful as he once was during the Silver and Golden ages, i.e moving planets like chess pieces. It is unlikely that a Shiled prison would be able to hold someone who could freely move the planets ! Though the pic seems impressive one has to account for who was on the Avengers roster at the time. In conclusion i suggest you read the latest Infinity Crisis edition and see what Super boy was able to do with the combined forces of the JSA and Teen Titans ! OWENAGE as you would say !!!!!!!!!!!! smokin'

brainchild81
They had many of them doped up so they wouldn't break out

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Is that a joke ... sorry im so confused

Any way, my point is .... In the recent New Avengers Series (taking place about 30 comics after the picture you have posted) we where shown Nefaria escaping from the shiled raft prison .... He was unable to do so until electro had 'blown a fuse'.

My point being that he was unable to escape from a shiled prison. As my good friend MR Splatt is pointing Superman is currently becoming as powerful as he once was during the Silver and Golden ages, i.e moving planets like chess pieces. It is unlikely that a Shiled prison would be able to hold someone who could freely move the planets ! Though the pic seems impressive one has to account for who was on the Avengers roster at the time. In conclusion i suggest you read the latest Infinity Crisis edition and see what Super boy was able to do with the combined forces of the JSA and Teen Titans ! OWENAGE as you would say !!!!!!!!!!!! smokin'

You do of course realize that is not the new avengers don't you? every now and then, characters bow down to newer blood(you know who i am talking about) to elevate them or for the sakes of plot.

And IIRC, Nefaria is currently out and at large as a fugitive from the raft.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by brainchild81
They had many of them doped up so they wouldn't break out

You work for shiled i pressume ? .... would it matter any way .... Superman beats anyone who can be physically stopped by standard chemicals !!!!!!! Invunerable means invunerable in D.C. ! smile

brainchild81
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
You work for shiled i pressume ? Uhh Uhhhh N-no. Of course I don't. Why would you think that? Shield is completely fictional. Now I need your home address so we can send an exter-- I mean Happy squad there.

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
You work for shiled i pressume ? .... would it matter any way .... Superman beats anyone who can be physically stopped by standard chemicals !!!!!!! Invunerable means invunerable in D.C. ! smile

It hasn't been made clear how and why Nefaria doesn't escape. One logical explanation is bad writing or he might have been held in something special there.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
It hasn't been made clear how and why Nefaria doesn't escape. One logical explanation is bad writing or he might have been held in something special there.

The point is he was held !!!!!!!!!! Current Supes could easilly lift the entire Island .... he is not being held in any prison unless its is magical or constructed from Kryptonite / New Gen tech .... Marvel strength levels are just not on the same level as Current Supes .... Their Strongest are at most on a Wonder Woman level, with the exception of Skyfathers , and Sentry smile

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
The point is he was held !!!!!!!!!! Current Supes could easilly lift the entire Island .... he is not being held in any prison unless its is magical or constructed from Kryptonite / New Gen tech .... Marvel strength levels are just not on the same level as Current Supes .... Their Strongest are at most on a Wonder Woman level, with the exception of Skyfathers , and Sentry smile

The point is that it was held after he was defeated by an entier roster he stomped earlier on. God knows what exactly happened for him to land and be kept there. And nope, Superman couldn't do the same. Look at what happened in JLA/Avengers continuity, he got punked by a dogpile while Nefaria shrugged it.

It is completely PIS that a guy who just laid waste to a team would be kept in the raft just like any other inmates without some proper measures that would have been taken.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
The point is that it was held after he was defeated by an entier roster he stomped earlier on. God knows what exactly happened for him to land and be kept there. And nope, Superman couldn't do the same. Look at what happened in JLA/Avengers continuity, he got punked by a dogpile while Nefaria shrugged it.

It is completely PIS that a guy who just laid waste to a team would be kept in the raft just like any other inmates without some proper measures that would have been taken.

Im pretty sure it was implied that Supes Ko's Neafria in the JLA/Avengers crossover .... Supes could easilly have taken out that team, it had little to no muscle on it, you cannot suggest that the likes of Vision and Giant man could hurt Supes .... Nefaria has been Ko'ed by a falling super denseVision .... Vision weighs 90 tons in this form, but i doubt he could barely scratch Current Supes .... Talking about owenage there is the Superboy incident in the last I.C. ! smile

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Im pretty sure it was implied that Supes Ko's Neafria in the JLA/Avengers crossover .... Supes could easilly have taken out that team, it had little to no muscle on it, you cannot suggest that the likes of Vision and Giant man could hurt Supes .... Nefaria has been Ko'ed by a falling super denseVision .... Vision weighs 90 tons in this form, but i doubt he could barely scratch Current Supes .... Talking about owenage there is the Superboy incident in the last I.C. ! smile

He was, then he got pwned and beaten to a pulp by a group of avengers that consisted mainly of half of the guys Nefaria pwned in their own book. So what does that say now?

And Vision and Giant man are a part of that group.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
He was, then he got pwned and beaten to a pulp by a group of avengers that consisted mainly of half of the guys Nefaria pwned in their own book. So what does that say now?

And Vision and Giant man are a part of that group.

Iron man was there but the rest weren't esepcailly the two strongest characters e.g. Wonderman and Herc .... I also have reservations about the realism of that event .... Plus he had been knocked about by a Wonder Woman strength character with a 'mystical' piece of metal ... It probably did a lot of prior damage ... In tern your point is mute !

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Iron man was there but the rest weren't esepcailly the two strongest characters e.g. Wonderman and Herc .... I also have reservations about the realism of that event .... Plus he had been knocked about by a Wonder Woman strength character with a 'mystical' piece of metal ... It probably did a lot of prior damage ... In tern your point is mute !

Wonderman was there. Only Herc is the only one that i didn't really see.......and i might even be wrong with that.

Err....what WW strength character did knocked him again? You couldn't be saying thor can you cause the mjolnir just bounced of Nefaria's chest last time I saw. And i couldn't agree he's on the same level as Diana as well. IMO higher and lower a bit with Supes.

Or do you mean Superman getting knocked about by a "mystical piece of metal"

My tern is mute, while yours is irrelevant. Get your facts straight

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Wonderman was there. Only Herc is the only one that i didn't really see.......and i might even be wrong with that.

Err....what WW strength character did knocked him again? You couldn't be saying thor can you cause the mjolnir just bounced of his chest last time I saw. And i couldn't agree he's on the same level as Diana as well. IMO higher and lower a bit with Supes.

My tern is mute, while yours is irrelevant. Get your facts straight

Mannn your english is worse than mine .... and that is saying something ! smile

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Mannn your english is worse than mine .... and that is saying something ! smile

Typo's I usually edit mine 5-10 seconds right after posting 1eye

superman420sexy
Well, Superman is now capable of lifting 200 quintillion TONS with ONE hand. A quintillion is a thousand quadrillions, and a quadrillion is a billion billions. So superman can lift 200,000 billionxbillion tons with one hand.... crazy... he takes nefaria and throws him to the outer reaches of spacce

Jose123
Originally posted by superman420sexy
Well, Superman is now capable of lifting 200 quintillion TONS with ONE hand. A quintillion is a thousand quadrillions, and a quadrillion is a billion billions. So superman can lift 200,000 billionxbillion tons with one hand.... crazy... he takes nefaria and throws him to the outer reaches of spacce

wasn't that only in ASS?

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by superman420sexy
Well, Superman is now capable of lifting 200 quintillion TONS with ONE hand. A quintillion is a thousand quadrillions, and a quadrillion is a billion billions. So superman can lift 200,000 billionxbillion tons with one hand.... crazy... he takes nefaria and throws him to the outer reaches of spacce

says who? Grant Morrisson's All Star Superman is non-canon.

And IIRC, that was because of some major major powerup that was also killing him.

Juntai
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
says who? Grant Morrisson's All Star Superman is non-canon.

And IIRC, that was because of some major major powerup that was also killing him. The sun was killing him, and yeah it was All Star Superman, not regular Superman.

superman420sexy
Well it said tripled, so I guess regular supes can lift like 67 quintillion tons with one hand which is still rediculous

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by superman420sexy
Well it said tripled, so I guess regular supes can lift like 67 quintillion tons with one hand which is still rediculous

Problem is though, even if it says "triple". We don't know exactly if it reflects with normal continuity supes. It could've been just based around that superman's base s.l. and not canon supes

superman420sexy
screw it superman is superman lol... what is canon anyway? The normal dc timeline?

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by superman420sexy
screw it superman is superman lol... what is canon anyway? The normal dc timeline?

Yep. Official continuity in which official characters exists officially beta

Juntai
Originally posted by superman420sexy
screw it superman is superman lol... what is canon anyway? The normal dc timeline? Yep, continuity.

superman420sexy
well then what is all-star superman?

Sixth_Winged
fanart bangin

Jose123
Originally posted by superman420sexy
well then what is all-star superman?

Out of continuity line where creators get to do what they want with their characters.

Or crap as it' is with all star Batman


horrible horrible crap.

For batman that is. I've heard ASS supse was good.

superman420sexy
for real? Does it even have anything to do with dc?

Jose123
Originally posted by superman420sexy
for real? Does it even have anything to do with superman?

Well it stars superman so i guess yeah. Not the regular DC universe one though.

Sixth_Winged
Elseworlds though i dunno if it has been labelled as such.

But it's definitely alternate reality

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Jose123
wasn't that only in ASS?

Current Superman has shown he is nearly as strong .... far stronger than Nefaria ! smile

Juntai
Originally posted by Jose123
Out of continuity line where creators get to do what they want with their characters.

Or crap as it' is with all star Batman


horrible horrible crap.

For batman that is. I've heard ASS supse was good. Crap? It hasn't really taken off yet, but something must be going right, because it's been the top selling comic everytime they've dropped it. In fact, the first two issues took THE top spot when they dropped, not sure about the third. In fact, number 1 I think took a spot on the all time best selling list.. not quite Death of Superman numbers, but the best selling comic this decade and possibly since the mid90s.


And yes, it is a playground for people with classic iconic characters. Not continuity. However, our ASS hasn't showed an ounce of being stronger than current Superman -yet-. But Grant Morrison's and Quitely's book is amazing and a breath of fresh air.

unknowable
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
here

Oh snap, is that the entire Avengers roster?

unknowable
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
It hasn't been made clear how and why Nefaria doesn't escape. One logical explanation is bad writing or he might have been held in something special there.

It may have had some sort of radiation which he has a weakness to, I believe.

unknowable
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
The point is he was held !!!!!!!!!! Current Supes could easilly lift the entire Island .... he is not being held in any prison unless its is magical or constructed from Kryptonite / New Gen tech .... Marvel strength levels are just not on the same level as Current Supes .... Their Strongest are at most on a Wonder Woman level, with the exception of Skyfathers , and Sentry smile

This cat is buggin...

Wonderwoman level? You joking right?

unknowable
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
The point is he was held !!!!!!!!!! Current Supes could easilly lift the entire Island .... he is not being held in any prison unless its is magical or constructed from Kryptonite / New Gen tech .... Marvel strength levels are just not on the same level as Current Supes .... Their Strongest are at most on a Wonder Woman level, with the exception of Skyfathers , and Sentry smile

Our Gladiator moves your fancy planets too, besides being able to achieve 100x the speed of light during flight.

And that' just one example of mad strength, if you want I can name more.

unknowable
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
The point is that it was held after he was defeated by an entier roster he stomped earlier on. God knows what exactly happened for him to land and be kept there. And nope, Superman couldn't do the same. Look at what happened in JLA/Avengers continuity, he got punked by a dogpile while Nefaria shrugged it.

It is completely PIS that a guy who just laid waste to a team would be kept in the raft just like any other inmates without some proper measures that would have been taken.

agreed...

unknowable
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Iron man was there but the rest weren't esepcailly the two strongest characters e.g. Wonderman and Herc .... I also have reservations about the realism of that event .... Plus he had been knocked about by a Wonder Woman strength character with a 'mystical' piece of metal ... It probably did a lot of prior damage ... In tern your point is mute !

You have reservations about the realism of the event, but you have no problem excepting superman lifting 18000+ ton subs with his pinky or picking up islands,
even in a world of make believe, that's rediculous, this same guy(superman) does the rediculous and then get's knocked out by the Parasite. LOL!

Point is someetimes we have to cut these guys some slack due to badly written stories.

unknowable
Originally posted by superman420sexy
Well, Superman is now capable of lifting 200 quintillion TONS with ONE hand. A quintillion is a thousand quadrillions, and a quadrillion is a billion billions. So superman can lift 200,000 billionxbillion tons with one hand.... crazy... he takes nefaria and throws him to the outer reaches of spacce

Well so much for He-man being the goof of strength, I thought He-Man throwing
500+ Billion ton mountains around was the pinncle of stupidity, but if that's true(about Superman), I can bet you he's gonna get boring real quick, that nonsense works on abstacts and deities the likes of Celestials and what not, for an everyday character it get's boring.

Ex11B
The only thing that was keeping Nefaria in the raft was #1.he might not have been fully powered or#2 He may been kept in some Cell that kept his Ionic energy in check.....Maybe

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by unknowable
Our Gladiator moves your fancy planets too, besides being able to achieve 100x the speed of light during flight.

And that' just one example of mad strength, if you want I can name more.

fancy planets ?

What a strange thing to say .... confused

HigH ScholaR
Originally posted by unknowable
Well so much for He-man being the goof of strength, I thought He-Man throwing
500+ Billion ton mountains around was the pinncle of stupidity, but if that's true(about Superman), I can bet you he's gonna get boring real quick, that nonsense works on abstacts and deities the likes of Celestials and what not, for an everyday character it get's boring.

Thats why i stopped reading JLA......................and the fact that i could'nt find Zaurial in them anymore and Kyle left and more importantly look down Originally posted by unknowable
Well so much for He-man being the goof of strength, I thought He-Man throwing
500+ Billion ton mountains around was the pinncle of stupidity, but if that's true(about Superman), I can bet you he's gonna get boring real quick, that nonsense works on abstacts and deities the likes of Celestials and what not, for an everyday character it get's boring.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Ex11B
The only thing that was keeping Nefaria in the raft was #1.he might not have been fully powered or#2 He may been kept in some Cell that kept his Ionic energy in check.....Maybe

Another shield agent ! smile

Juntai
Originally posted by unknowable
Our Gladiator moves your fancy planets too, besides being able to achieve 100x the speed of light during flight.

And that' just one example of mad strength, if you want I can name more. Gladiator's one time 100x flight speed doesn't hold much wieght, it's a one time feat, while the forum is considered of consistant strength. For intesive purposes, it was a particularly powered up moment.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by unknowable
Well so much for He-man being the goof of strength, I thought He-Man throwing
500+ Billion ton mountains around was the pinncle of stupidity, but if that's true(about Superman), I can bet you he's gonna get boring real quick, that nonsense works on abstacts and deities the likes of Celestials and what not, for an everyday character it get's boring.

I disagree .... If written properly (which is rarely ) a God like Superman is just as interesting (if not, more so) than the Byrne esque realistic version !

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by Juntai
Gladiator's one time 100x flight speed doesn't hold much wieght, it's a one time feat, while the forum is considered of consistant strength. For intesive purposes, it was a particularly powered up moment. True, but the Fantastic Four issues where he is able to amp his speed to move with Reed, Thor and everyone (who were using tech to move that fast. And they also comment that they've been working for 2 weeks and nothing else appears to have moved at all) backs up the fact that pretty much no one from Earth should be able to touch Glads, and that he could majorly speed blitz most opponents if he utilized his speed.

Juntai
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
True, but the Fantastic Four issues where he is able to amp his speed to move with Reed, Thor and everyone (who were using tech to move that fast. And they also comment that they've been working for 2 weeks and nothing else appears to have moved at all) backs up the fact that pretty much no one from Earth should be able to touch Glads, and that he could majorly speed blitz most opponents if he utilized his speed.
Yep, but Superman can do the same thing.
I'm not saying he's not fast, I'm saying he's not 100x lightspeed consistantly or even anything close to consistantly..It was a one shot feat.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Juntai
Yep, but Superman can do the same thing.
I'm not saying he's not fast, I'm saying he's not 100x lightspeed consistantly or even anything close to consistantly..It was a one shot feat.

Agreed .... total Byrne Bullshit ! smile

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by Juntai
Yep, but Superman can do the same thing.
I'm not saying he's not fast, I'm saying he's not 100x lightspeed consistantly or even anything close to consistantly..It was a one shot feat. Yeah, I agree.

superman420sexy
100x lighspeed is stupid for a character like gladiator

unknowable
Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
Thats why i stopped reading JLA......................and the fact that i could'nt find Zaurial in them anymore and Kyle left and more importantly look down

I gave up a while ago, some issues still do it for me but in general, Supes has been duped.

unknowable
Originally posted by Juntai
Gladiator's one time 100x flight speed doesn't hold much wieght, it's a one time feat, while the forum is considered of consistant strength. For intesive purposes, it was a particularly powered up moment.

I hear that, but then you should know that immediately before that he was chasing Skrulls through Hyper-Space, where one must travel faster than light to enter, was it 100x the speed of light or more? Who knows, but he definately can achieve faster than light speeds consistantly, as he's shown many times, even his bio says he has warp speed.

But the interesting thing that you posted was that it was a powered up moment,
I see it as a powered down moment, after all, he had just come out of Hyper Space, "unaided, without ship or guidance system" then contains an explosion that would have annihilated half the Solar System, and then zooms to earth at 100x the speed of light,

Look at what he did before performing that feat(100x speed of light), now think if he can't pull that off on any day at optimal condition.

unknowable
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
I disagree .... If written properly (which is rarely ) a God like Superman is just as interesting (if not, more so) than the Byrne esque realistic version !

God like stories always fail, they're only good in great stories with limited issues, because it gets boring quick to be all powerful.

But I'm sure you know this...

unknowable
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
True, but the Fantastic Four issues where he is able to amp his speed to move with Reed, Thor and everyone (who were using tech to move that fast. And they also comment that they've been working for 2 weeks and nothing else appears to have moved at all) backs up the fact that pretty much no one from Earth should be able to touch Glads, and that he could majorly speed blitz most opponents if he utilized his speed.

Agreed...

When Thor saw Gladiator's speed in the series where they fought the Black Celestial, he said of him, "Gladiator's power doth begger description". Thor was awed..

unknowable
Originally posted by Juntai
Yep, but Superman can do the same thing.
I'm not saying he's not fast, I'm saying he's not 100x lightspeed consistantly or even anything close to consistantly..It was a one shot feat.

I spoke on this...

unknowable
Originally posted by superman420sexy
100x lighspeed is stupid for a character like gladiator

????

Juntai
Originally posted by unknowable
I hear that, but then you should know that immediately before that he was chasing Skrulls through Hyper-Space, where one must travel faster than light to enter, was it 100x the speed of light or more? Who knows, but he definately can achieve faster than light speeds consistantly, as he's shown many times, even his bio says he has warp speed.

But the interesting thing that you posted was that it was a powered up moment,
I see it as a powered down moment, after all, he had just come out of Hyper Space, "unaided, without ship or guidance system" then contains an explosion that would have annihilated half the Solar System, and then zooms to earth at 100x the speed of light,

Look at what he did before performing that feat(100x speed of light), now think if he can't pull that off on any day at optimal condition. Did you consider the whole issue being a powered up moment? He's not consistantly that strong or fast. This guy had major trouble toppling Collosus in the Pheonix Saga.
His one comic of uberness was probably cool to all his fanboys, but to the rest of us, it is surely a one time powerup. He's not at all consistantly that strong or fast as he was in that comic.

The forum takes consistant writing as debatable material. High end feats or nice, but only when they're supported by other feats of equal calibre. If we all of a sudden saw Aquaman breaking the time barrier by running on his feet, then knocking over a skyscraper with his bare hands and swinging it at someone, I'm sure it would be questioned as well.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by Juntai
Did you consider the whole issue being a powered up moment? He's not consistantly that strong or fast. This guy had major trouble toppling Collosus in the Pheonix Saga.
His one comic of uberness was probably cool to all his fanboys, but to the rest of us, it is surely a one time powerup. He's not at all consistantly that strong or fast as he was in that comic. He's not consistently that strong sure, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the potential to do it again. I know we'll probably never see him do anything like that in comics again, but in the Versus Forum, where characters best showings are the ones we're supposed to take into account, using those feats is a valid argument. Just like Aquaman giving someone a seizure. He's only done that once, but that's fine to use. Flash has only used the Infinite Mass Punch once right? People still accept that. Alot of characters have one time feats that are still accepted as something they can do regularly.

I try not to use the 100c speed feat for Glads all the time, just because like you said, it's not consistant with his other showings. Nonetheless, it did happen, therefore he has the potential to do it again.

unknowable
Originally posted by Juntai
Did you consider the whole issue being a powered up moment? He's not consistantly that strong or fast. This guy had major trouble toppling Collosus in the Pheonix Saga.
His one comic of uberness was probably cool to all his fanboys, but to the rest of us, it is surely a one time powerup. He's not at all consistantly that strong or fast as he was in that comic.

The forum takes consistant writing as debatable material. High end feats or nice, but only when they're supported by other feats of equal calibre. If we all of a sudden saw Aquaman breaking the time barrier by running on his feet, then knocking over a skyscraper with his bare hands and swinging it at someone, I'm sure it would be questioned as well.

Your last statement made sense, about Aquaman

I still don't agree that was an "uber moment" though, and what if his tough time with Collosus was a pis moment, see it all depends how you look at it, In FF #250 Collosus ends up unconscious after tusslin with Gladiator, so you see...

Juntai
Originally posted by unknowable
Your last statement made sense, about Aquaman

I still don't agree that was an "uber moment" though, and what if his tough time with Collosus was a pis moment, see it all depends how you look at it, In FF #250 Collosus ends up unconscious after tusslin with Gladiator, so you see... But that's not exacly ripping holes in space with your bare hands, and sprinting around at a thousand times the speed of light, is it?

unknowable
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
He's not consistently that strong sure, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the potential to do it again. I know we'll probably never see him do anything like that in comics again, but in the Versus Forum, where characters best showings are the ones we're supposed to take into account, using those feats is a valid argument. Just like Aquaman giving someone a seizure. He's only done that once, but that's fine to use. Flash has only used the Infinite Mass Punch once right? People still accept that. Alot of characters have one time feats that are still accepted as something they can do regularly.

I try not to use the 100c speed feat for Glads all the time, just because like you said, it's not consistant with his other showings. Nonetheless, it did happen, therefore he has the potential to do it again.

My point exactly, Jun is right, he hasn't done that specific feat again but he did it non the less, and can do it again because of this fact.
Otherwise what the point of any comic, if later on down the line they can be challenged as a real event or not.
I mean it wasn't a What If..
It was FF#249, a legitament source for referals.

unknowable
Originally posted by Juntai
But that's not exacly ripping holes in space with your bare hands, and sprinting around at a thousand times the speed of light, is it?

Are you bringing Superman in?

Never said Gladiator's exaggeration compares to Supes.
Right now where debating whether or not Gladiator's 100x light speed flight was legite or not. and I along with others say yes, because it happened in a continuing issue of Fantastic Four, as you already know.
Not a crossover, an limited series or what if, a solid comic that can be refered to for feats.

JOE NUNEZ
THE COUNTS POWERS ARE IMPRESIVE I HAVENT HEARD MUCH ON HOW SMART HE IS CUASE IF HES NOT AT LEAST AS SMART AS SUPES SUPES WOULD EAT HIM ALIVE DONT UNDERESTIMATE HOW SMART SUPES REALLY IS ASIDES FROM HIS NEAR UNLIMTED POWER......SUPES WOULD FIGURE OUT A WAY PLUS THE COUNT IS NOWERE NEAR SUPES IN THE STREANGH AND SPEED DEPARTMENT.............

Ex11B
is this still going on?

Horrificus
In an all out fight, Nefaria wins.

But, if there is no hurting allowed, Supes may have a chance.
But, that's only if he calls "No Hurting". Or, "No Hitting in the Face"!
But, if Nefaria was smart, he would call "No Hair Pulling", and "No Slapping". Because, those are Superman's big moves.

batdude123
Originally posted by Horrificus
In an all out fight, Nefaria wins.

But, if there is no hurting allowed, Supes may have a chance.
But, that's only if he calls "No Hurting". Or, "No Hitting in the Face"!
But, if Nefaria was smart, he would call "No Hair Pulling", and "No Slapping". Because, those are Superman's big moves.

Man, why you be hatin'?

Horrificus
Originally posted by batdude123
Man, why you be hatin'?

Superman and me have ... "history". But, he started it.

Thanos_1971
laughing

Avalonofthewind
Supes wins.

Horrificus
Originally posted by Juntai
Gladiator's one time 100x flight speed doesn't hold much wieght, it's a one time feat, while the forum is considered of consistant strength. For intesive purposes, it was a particularly powered up moment.

As I understood it, unless otherwise presented, a character is taken to be at the peak of thier potential, under normal circumstances.

"Normal", meaning, unless they have a non-canon powersource, are being controlled by a force that is not normally part of the character make-up, etc. Recieving power or influence from anything outside of thier profile.

But, if the character is not in any unusual circumstances, and being portrayed with thier usual traits, high-level feats can be utilized, and considered as abilites that are always available.

For example, if it is argued that Trion Juggernaut was as powerful as he was without any type of additional power or ability, his increaed power-level should be considered his peak, and is useable in the forum as regular Juggernaut.

But, if it is proven that he only retained this high level of power, due to the invasive entity that was inc control of the Juggernaut "Body", then there would be a valid arguement that this is an unusual circumstance, and should not be used as "Normal" potential for Juggs.

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