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Ragnos is armed with his sceptre/sword, DE Sidious with a robe and a lightsabre, ditto for NJO Luke and Exar Kun has his robes + amulets + double sabre.

Setting: The Himilayas.

The trio or Ragnos?

Whew. An educated guess tells me Ragnos goes down. He could take any one of them in one to one combat, but we just don't know enough of his power to argue that he'd take all three of them. Is it conceivable? Yes, but there's no reason for someone to believe so.

At a distance with his scepter, he stands as good a shot as anyone. But it's almost inconceivable anyone takes the trio out.

Either way, I'm getting my ass away from the Himalayas.

True. Marka's a tank and could probably take the team down in a long, hard slog if it were just two of them. But all three? I'm hard pressed to say that he'd win.

The trio takes it more often than not.

Ragnos is a dead man.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ragnos is a dead man.

IKC is the ultimate Kun fan. I say you swallow your ego and accept the logically viable possibility that someone with no expressed limit on his power has a shot.

Why? He's facing Exar, DE sidious and NJO Luke, three of the most uber people you can get. Working together, that's about as unstoppable as you get

Mostly because Ragnos is described as the most powerful of the most powerful, and two of the three combatants got their knowledge from the remnants of his Empire.

Ragnos has a chance, but it's a small one.

Great. And that applies to future generations how? Oh, wait it doesn't....did Ragnos learn of and master all aspects of the Force? Did he use the Sith Lords' greatest weapon? When the future Sith order is said to have, changed and evolved, to have made war itself their weapon and fighting them can't work? When the Avatar of Light and the greatest foe the Sith'd ever known lived? News for you: Sidious and Luke were described as gods and Titans in the force and their duel, BEFORE sidious unleashed his full power, was felt by people across the galaxy.

Shiva walks out of Mt. Kailas and blasts them into oblivion with the Third Eye. . .

Just like poor Ganesha

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Great. And that applies to future generations how? Oh, wait it doesn't....did Ragnos learn of and master all aspects of the Force? Did he use the Sith Lords' greatest weapon? When the future Sith order is said to have, changed and evolved, to have made war itself their weapon and fighting them can't work? When the Avatar of Light and the greatest foe the Sith'd ever known lived? News for you: Sidious and Luke were described as gods and Titans in the force and their duel, BEFORE sidious unleashed his full power, was felt by people across the galaxy.

Does it say "the most powerful of the most powerful of a ten minute span"? No it doesn't. We know he is vastly superior to his contemporaries and he has no known upper limit to his ability. There is definitely a logically plausible chance.

You're being closed minded again. Yes, the future Sith Order did change and evolve, it was never said to be stronger than the Ancient Sith, who is considered the Golden Age.

Of that specific empire. I'd consider a 'golden age' a 1000 year dominance of a galaxy by the Brotherhood of Darkness

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Of that specific empire. I'd consider a 'golden age' a 1000 year dominance of a galaxy by the Brotherhood of Darkness

Is that why it's never mentioned as the golden age, or described as "the zenith of the sith"?

No one individual is proclaimed as "the absolute, zomg, best of all time!" Marka Ragnos is the closest one to that status.

As opposed to Palpatine who brought out the gratest weapon of the Sith to the greatest scale we've ever seen? I'm very willing to put them as equals, or close in power, but anything beyond that?

And any statements like that can EASILY be taken to mean Of that empire...never before the BoD did the Sith control the GALAXY.

On another note, glad this is back to being civil, Illustrious. Enough going for the throats. I've acted like a total dick and I'm sorry

Originally posted by Lightsnake
As opposed to Palpatine who brought out the gratest weapon of the Sith to the greatest scale we've ever seen? I'm very willing to put them as equals, or close in power, but anything beyond that?

Greatest weapon of the Sith to the greatest scale? Could you please lump some more hyperbole on there; my eyes aren't bleeding yet.

Is there any proof for this statement, or is it being twisted?



Why are you assigning labels to Star Wars timelines? Since when are you the certified expert? The Golden Age of the Sith corresponds with the rule of Ragnos. Period. QED. It is done. You do not get to pick that title up and carry it over to some other part of time and assign it. It's not in your job description as Random Forum Persona #86,571.

As opposed to Palpatine who brought out the gratest weapon of the Sith to the greatest scale we've ever seen? I'm very willing to put them as equals, or close in power, but anything beyond that?

Greatest weapon of the Sith? Substantiate, that sounds like hyperbole.

And any statements like that can EASILY be taken to mean Of that empire...never before the BoD did the Sith control the GALAXY.

The BoD never controlled the galaxy, they almost did. On the same vein of thought, Palpatine never conquered the galaxy. When do we see Palpatine leading Sith armies? Never, he was forced to hide in the shadows and fight, which is unfeasible considering you seem to think he can wipe out pretty much anyone else.

Darth Revan achieved more than Sidious. At least he almost conquered it.

On another note, glad this is back to being civil, Illustrious. Enough going for the throats. I've acted like a total dick and I'm sorry

Good, lets keep it civil then.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
As opposed to Palpatine who brought out the gratest weapon of the Sith to the greatest scale we've ever seen? I'm very willing to put them as equals, or close in power, but anything beyond that?

DE Sidious and Ragnos equals ? Now listen, fanboy. It's enough. Go and buy yourself Jedi Knight: Academy. Play the game. Listen to Luke talking about Ragnos. He says that it would need the combined power of the entire Jedi Academy to take it up with a living Ragnos.

That would include: Luke himself (5 - 10 years after DE), Kyp Durron, Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo, Anakin Solo (?), Corran Horn, Kyle Katarn and dozens of other people.

And you put him on an "equal" position to a guy that was defeated by Luke on his own ? Yeah, right.



What does "controlling the Galaxy" have to do with "being powerful" ? This is nothing but feat wars. Can George Bush knock out Mike Tyson in a fist fight because Bush reigns over a country and Tyson does not ?

The "Golden Age of the Sith" referres to Sith culture including Sith Alchemy and Sith magic. The Sith were a species that was wiped from known space already when Revan lived meaning 2 millenia before the BoD showed up. And with the exception of Kun we've never seem somebody proficient in Sith magic (like casting a single spell to freeze the entire Senate) or Sith alchemy (like creating force based amulets, weapons and ships) from the fall of the Ancient Sith Empire on. It's not about what they did rule...

Ahh, Janus...can't argue so you just throw something to insult? It says in the comic by the narrarator a force storm is the greatest weapon of the Sith. Fabric of the galaxy tears, a force storm, the greatest weapon of the Sith Lords, has eben creating, cut to Palpatine's former phrase on creating storms. And the BoD ruled all the galaxy by the core until theyf ell apart. Unlike Revan, Sidious conwuered the galaxy and destroyed the Jedi order...not even 1000 years of Sith rule under Ruin, Krul, Seviss Vaa, Rivan, Kaan....none of them achieved THAT. We see Palpatine hiding ebcause he was politically savvy and loved the irony of what he did...he chose his rotuwe because history'd shown what happened when Sith try to lead armies: Never in one instance did they succeed. His plan was to destroy from within...and there's that pesky rule of 2 thing from a millenia ago...

And considering DE Sidious to Ragnos...let's cotnrast and compare? Palpatine's death weakened the Dark Side. Irrevecobly. And I'd like this part of the game where Luke says that...we've seen Lukle and Palpatine fight to the degree to be felt over the entire galaxy. We've seen Palpatine demolish fleets. Occam's razor and principles of Economics here. Soudns more like hyperbole to me, to take a page from Janus's book. We saw Jaden Korr drive Ragnos back with his greatest weapon as it was. How many times do I have to post the description of that Palpatine/Luke duel?

The Sith measure a lot in conquest and success, that's undeniable. The Sith evolved off the species, Ragnos himself confirmed that with Kun's coronation

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ahh, Janus...can't argue so you just throw something to insult? It says in the comic by the narrarator a force storm is the greatest weapon of the Sith. Fabric of the galaxy tears, a force storm, the greatest weapon of the Sith Lords, has eben creating, cut to Palpatine's former phrase on creating storms.


Yeah. It says in the comic by the narrator that the force storm is the greatest weapon, before the following things were invented:
- ships that tear stars into pieces (Sadow)
- gauntlets that destroy temple walls and instakill persons (Sadow / Kun)
- people with the ability to drain entire planets and kill every life on it with a single force attack (Nihilus)
and so on, and so on...



Wake up. The military forces under Sidious command conquered the Galaxy and destroyed the Jedi order or have you seen him doing that all on his own ? I didn't. Feat Wars Episode VI - Return of the Fanboy.



We saw Palpatine hiding because he can't take on the entire Jedi order with his force powers or military skills.



We have seen what ? We have seen Jaden Korr fighting a 5,000 year old spirit in the body of an force user that immediatly died after Ragnos left it because it couldn't stand the corruption inflicted to it by Ragnos spirit (and it's force powers) in the matter of minutes. Luke is talking about a living Ragnos and we've never seen a living Ragnos. So if Luke estimates that this is the level of Ragnos power DE Sidious would get curbstomped by him.



You really want to tell me that a culture can reach it's "golden age" after all people who lived within that culture have been extinct from known space 2,000 years ago ? So Rome as it is today is the "golden age" of the Roman Empire ? Pfffft...

1. And after. all your following points were invented by the timethe Dark Side sourcebook and the NEC was....and considering Sidious was already draining planets of the force and stated to know all known, previously existing, discovered formerly unknown and created new techniques....that covers it. Force storms remain as the strongest weapon of a Dark Lord. They have always been written as such

2. Who was responsible for all of it? Sidious.

3. And history's shown that any Sith COULD? Seriously, history has shown the Sith are always beatewn and considering thanks to his order, Sidious had only one other Sith to work with...

4. Proof. We've seen Sidious become a pure avatar of the dark side against Luke's pure avatar of the Light side. We have no idea how the entire academy would measure up to Luke. Ragnos himself works against you here. We also know Ragnos still had his sceptre. And that 5000 year old spirit had a body with all his knowledge of the force.

5. You mean when 2,000 years later, when a new golden age was failed to come around, because of Kun and then a new Golden age DID come around thanks to Darth Ruin?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. And after. all your following points were invented by the timethe Dark Side sourcebook and the NEC was....and considering Sidious was already draining planets of the force and stated to know all known, previously existing, discovered formerly unknown and created new techniques....that covers it. Force storms remain as the strongest weapon of a Dark Lord. They have always been written as such


Again...what the hell ?
The things I've mentioned come from TOTJ, KotoR and KotoR 2. Yeah...nothing else is mentioned as "the most powerful weapon" a Sith can have but every person with a little bit of brain between his / her ears will say that draining the life force from an entire planet killing all inhabitants including a huge number of Jedi would be more powerful than the "force storm" thing.
And Sidious drained one planet and he didn't drain it that much that all people - including Jedi Masters - instantly died. And those can be used only if people WILLFULLY let it use on them.



Can Tarkin defeat all inhabitants of Alderaan at once in a fist fight because he was responsible for the destruction of the planet via the Death Star ? Cut off that feat wars.



Beaten by what ? Betrayal ! Sadow...beaten by betrayal of Gav. Revan beaten by betrayal of Malak. Malak beaten by Revan's return. Really...what do you want ? Sidious BEATEN by betrayal of Vader.

The only difference between Sidious and all other people is that he was betrayed after he had gained control over the Republic and therefor a great part of the Galaxy. Revan could easily have done that.



Where did you get that "avatar" thing from. Do you know what an "avatar" is ? And how the entire Academy would measure up to Luke. I guess the Solo children would be quite strong having Skywalker blood in them. Kyp had proven himself to be quite gifted with force potential. We know what Kyle Katarn did and we have tons of information about the other people. Still....Luke at this time would be more powerful than in DE times and the other people would just add massively to that amount of power (especially Jacen and Jaina).



You again failed to realize that YOU are the only person using the term "golden age" for the BoD. You made it up like half of your so called "arguments". Have the people of the BoD displayed any reasonable use of Sith magic, alchemy or have lived in a kind of Sith culture ? No ? So...you can dig another grave for that "BoD = another Golden Age of the Sith" statement.

Sidious' drain was not on the scale of Nihilus. Nothing is.

There is no force user, outside of Exile, who can stand up to Nihilus. That was his design. He could only be beaten by the Exile.

Also, the DS sourcebook and NEC does not declare Sidious or Luke as the most powerful force user.



So it means that he has the personal capabilities to march into the Temples and kill everything and everyone? That he can walk into the Council and eliminate all of them?

No, he orchestrated it, just like Hitler orchastrated the downfall of the Weinmar Republic, but he was not, by any means, capable of doing the thing without any help.



This says nothing to Sidious' personal power, which is what we are measuring in a versus thread.



It doesn't matter how they measure up to Luke, because that's not the point. He would go along. He said we need to gather "our full strength" to "try" to stop him if he comes along.



Can you prove the circumstances of that fight? JK:JO had Kyle crushing Desann under a pillar. For all you know, Tavion could have suffered a massive stroke and died during battle, the circumstances are unclear.

(Not saying the above is likely, just that it's entirely possible without knowing anything).

The 5000 year old spirit was also entirely intangible. It never existed outside of a body. As mentioned by Corran, spirits are typically unable to mess with the living. The fact that he was able to entirely fuse with another being and take control of that body is already impressive.

Besides, are you arguing that Tavion's body would not have limitations? When have we ever seen anyone use another person's body effectively?

Try nowhere.

Assumedly, force attacks with an inferior body would be weaker and let's not even get into the details of physical capability.



When is it ever stated that the Brotherhood brought about a Golden Age of the Sith?

The Golden Age of the Sith sites Marka's reign as the zenith of Sith power: Sith Alchemy, Sith Magic, Dark Side dominance. It's not the zenith if there's two of them or if there's one higher.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Again...what the hell ?
The things I've mentioned come from TOTJ, KotoR and KotoR 2. Yeah...nothing else is mentioned as "the most powerful weapon" a Sith can have but every person with a little bit of brain between his / her ears will say that draining the life force from an entire planet killing all inhabitants including a huge number of Jedi would be more powerful than the "force storm" thing.
And Sidious drained one planet and he didn't drain it that much that all people - including Jedi Masters - instantly died. And those can be used only if people WILLFULLY let it use on them.



Can Tarkin defeat all inhabitants of Alderaan at once in a fist fight because he was responsible for the destruction of the planet via the Death Star ? Cut off that feat wars.



Beaten by what ? Betrayal ! Sadow...beaten by betrayal of Gav. Revan beaten by betrayal of Malak. Malak beaten by Revan's return. Really...what do you want ? Sidious BEATEN by betrayal of Vader.

The only difference between Sidious and all other people is that he was betrayed after he had gained control over the Republic and therefor a great part of the Galaxy. Revan could easily have done that.



Where did you get that "avatar" thing from. Do you know what an "avatar" is ? And how the entire Academy would measure up to Luke. I guess the Solo children would be quite strong having Skywalker blood in them. Kyp had proven himself to be quite gifted with force potential. We know what Kyle Katarn did and we have tons of information about the other people. Still....Luke at this time would be more powerful than in DE times and the other people would just add massively to that amount of power (especially Jacen and Jaina).



You again failed to realize that YOU are the only person using the term "golden age" for the BoD. You made it up like half of your so called "arguments". Have the people of the BoD displayed any reasonable use of Sith magic, alchemy or have lived in a kind of Sith culture ? No ? So...you can dig another grave for that "BoD = another Golden Age of the Sith" statement.

1. How about draining a planet and its people in a controlled manner? Palp did that on Byss. And he didn't 'drain it that much' because he kept it as his personal feeding ground. And Nihilius drained more than Katarr?

2. Did Tarkin do anything with the Force? Do we see Sidious wipe out a fleet with the force, so logically speaking, he could fight them with the Force and win.

3. An avatar: Physical manifestation? And read TUF, yeah, Jacen really has some things going for him. I've posted the thing with Palp vs. Luke again and again...

4. Let's look at this logically: What would be the Golden Age? One hundred years under Ragnos without expansion, or one thousand years ruling the galaxy with an iron fist? And we saw Bane deforest a world...in fairness, we haven't seen MUCH of the BoD except Bane.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Sidious' drain was not on the scale of Nihilus. Nothing is.

There is no force user, outside of Exile, who can stand up to Nihilus. That was his design. He could only be beaten by the Exile.

Also, the DS sourcebook and NEC does not declare Sidious or Luke as the most powerful force user.



So it means that he has the personal capabilities to march into the Temples and kill everything and everyone? That he can walk into the Council and eliminate all of them?

No, he orchestrated it, just like Hitler orchastrated the downfall of the Weinmar Republic, but he was not, by any means, capable of doing the thing without any help.



This says nothing to Sidious' personal power, which is what we are measuring in a versus thread.



It doesn't matter how they measure up to Luke, because that's not the point. He would go along. He said we need to gather "our full strength" to "try" to stop him if he comes along.



Can you prove the circumstances of that fight? JK:JO had Kyle crushing Desann under a pillar. For all you know, Tavion could have suffered a massive stroke and died during battle, the circumstances are unclear.

(Not saying the above is likely, just that it's entirely possible without knowing anything).

The 5000 year old spirit was also entirely intangible. It never existed outside of a body. As mentioned by Corran, spirits are typically unable to mess with the living. The fact that he was able to entirely fuse with another being and take control of that body is already impressive.

Besides, are you arguing that Tavion's body would not have limitations? When have we ever seen anyone use another person's body effectively?

Try nowhere.

Assumedly, force attacks with an inferior body would be weaker and let's not even get into the details of physical capability.



When is it ever stated that the Brotherhood brought about a Golden Age of the Sith?

The Golden Age of the Sith sites Marka's reign as the zenith of Sith power: Sith Alchemy, Sith Magic, Dark Side dominance. It's not the zenith if there's two of them or if there's one higher.

1. Sidious took the force energy of Byss and the lvies of billions to sustain himself. May not be up to Nihilius, but considering Nihilius's...unusual nature, what Sidious did is freaking impressive.

2. It calls Palpatine the 'Strongest force of Darkness the galaxy had ever known.' And Luke the exact opposite...

3. That's true and I never doubted that at all. However, I doubt any Sith had it in him to walk into the Jedi temple and not instantly get completely owned...Sidious did the smart thing, I think we can all agree on that.

4. I know it's not relevant, I'm defending some of his competence and why he didn't lead 'Sith legions'.

5. Luke said the same thing about Hethrir, the Yuuzhan Vong, Sidious in DE, among others....Hell, he even said he'd give his all to 'try' to stop Brakiss and Kueller...

6. And how about that scepter? Ragnos actually using it himself in flesh....we know spirits have used bodies to fight very effectively before. And when was Desann crushed? We just see his hand twitch a few times.

I'll grant you this...Desann and Tavion were Hethrir's servants...that is a new low.

7. My point is: The zenith of Sith power and the Golden Age applied to the empire Ragnos ruled...the Dark Side didn't dominate, the Sith had a small, isolated empire that died upon expansion. When Ragnos died it went to hell...the BoD ruled the GALAXY for 1000 years, minus the core worlds..

Btw, for a bit over the next few days, my online time'll be limited. Just letting you know. Got a play and some other things coming up

As is Tavion -- a relative weakling -- draining force from a variety of planets and then using the force to literally imbue otherwise non-force sensitive individuals with force powers. But again, is he going to drain a planet in the middle of a fight?



Well yes, thematically it was the strongest force of darkness and light. That hardly seems to indicate that Palpatine can beat the crap out of anyone with a saber. Like I always conceded, Palpatine accomplished the most and was the most influential in galactic affairs, but it never mentions him being superior in a combat situation to other individuals.



Considering Hethrir coincided with Sidious, I'm not surprised. Didn't you just argue that Sidious had an Order? The cutscene quote is "we would need our full strength to try to stop him."

That's definitive. And just to prove his point, he sends all the Jedi over to Korriban. We only know of one other instance where we could argue that was the case.



Desann's body was underneath a pillar when the camera pans back momentarily as Kyle walks out of the temple.

Who do we see fighting extremely effective in bodies whom were already beaten? You seem to forget that you beat Tavion first, then she sticks it into the sarcophagus, summons Ragnos with the rest of the energy in the scepter. After Ragnos possesses her, she pulls out the sword from the end of the scepter, and tosses it aside. Tavion with Ragnos' spirit never had an opportunity to use the scepter.



And as low as that is, Desann did beat Luke and put him under a pile of rubble. You see a similar thing happen in the DS ending of JK:A, if you beat Katarn in that ending, you put him under a pile of rubble. They both got up, but that's irrelevant to the point, they clearly were "beaten." In fact, in that same game, JK:JO, a cutscene has Luke telling Kyle that neither of them should take Desann alone.



It didn't say that. The Sith Empire in GAotS had hundreds of worlds and wealth they couldn't use up. The introduction even said that the Sith "ruled the galaxy," partially because no one power in the galaxy was truly an intergalactic power. The republic was still expanding by people spinning random numbers to hyperspace to.

Originally posted by Illustrious
As is Tavion -- a relative weakling -- draining force from a variety of planets and then using the force to literally imbue otherwise non-force sensitive individuals with force powers. But again, is he going to drain a planet in the middle of a fight?



Well yes, thematically it was the strongest force of darkness and light. That hardly seems to indicate that Palpatine can beat the crap out of anyone with a saber. Like I always conceded, Palpatine accomplished the most and was the most influential in galactic affairs, but it never mentions him being superior in a combat situation to other individuals.



Considering Hethrir coincided with Sidious, I'm not surprised. Didn't you just argue that Sidious had an Order? The cutscene quote is "we would need our full strength to try to stop him."

That's definitive. And just to prove his point, he sends all the Jedi over to Korriban. We only know of one other instance where we could argue that was the case.



Desann's body was underneath a pillar when the camera pans back momentarily as Kyle walks out of the temple.

Who do we see fighting extremely effective in bodies whom were already beaten? You seem to forget that you beat Tavion first, then she sticks it into the sarcophagus, summons Ragnos with the rest of the energy in the scepter. After Ragnos possesses her, she pulls out the sword from the end of the scepter, and tosses it aside. Tavion with Ragnos' spirit never had an opportunity to use the scepter.



And as low as that is, Desann did beat Luke and put him under a pile of rubble. You see a similar thing happen in the DS ending of JK:A, if you beat Katarn in that ending, you put him under a pile of rubble. They both got up, but that's irrelevant to the point, they clearly were "beaten." In fact, in that same game, JK:JO, a cutscene has Luke telling Kyle that neither of them should take Desann alone.



It didn't say that. The Sith Empire in GAotS had hundreds of worlds and wealth they couldn't use up. The introduction even said that the Sith "ruled the galaxy," partially because no one power in the galaxy was truly an intergalactic power. The republic was still expanding by people spinning random numbers to hyperspace to.

1. Could he drain his opponent in the fight? And tavionw as using something tha tbelonged to Ragnos, something that we have no idea of origin. We know Sith presented gifts to their lords and loyal members of the Sith did the same...Garu and Tritos Nal for example.

2. I never climed he was an ultimate saber fighter, either, however, he's got credentials.

3. Like I said, he said that about Hethrir, a good....well, a good while after Sidious, four years or so....

4. You sure about that? Don't we just see the body and twitching hand?

5. I'll replay Jedi Academy, my apologies, it's eben....years.

6. Luke never fights his ex-stufents seriously. Desann couldn't beat him if he did....Luke crushed Brakiss before.

7. I'll find stuff on the BoD later...it may be a little sparse though...but hundreds of world? Any proof therre?

"Darth Revan achieved more than Sidious. At least he almost conquered it."

Conquering never worked for the Sith. Sidious, being far more intelligent, cooked up the cleanest and by far the most effective method to control the Galaxy. If Revan wanted the Galaxy, he had the ideal time to take over during the Mandalorians wars. Instead, like a typical Sith dumbass, he makes this bigass army that's completly dependant on a single factory and tries to take the Republic straight up.

Originally posted by Hello Friend
"Darth Revan achieved more than Sidious. At least he almost conquered it."

Conquering never worked for the Sith. Sidious, being far more intelligent, cooked up the cleanest and by far the most effective method to control the Galaxy. If Revan wanted the Galaxy, he had the ideal time to take over during the Mandalorians wars. Instead, like a typical Sith dumbass, he makes this bigass army that's completly dependant on a single factory and tries to take the Republic straight up.

Lol , I take it you've never played KotOR II or payed attention to it. Firstly, he was still a Jedi during the Mandalorian Wars. Secondly, Revan realised that the Star Forge was a corrupting influence and not to be trusted, hence why he spent so much time leaving the infrastructure of planets intact.

And take the Republic up straight? Yeah, what's wrong with that? He was a strategic genius.

Sidious was arguably the best politician in the history of the Sith, I'm trying to make the fanboys that keep on saying "OMFG Cideus PWNED the order and teh gLAXY!" shut up. Sidious took over the galaxy through political machination, not through conquering it.

And there's something wrong with that? We're supposed to shut up about Sidious actually taking the galaxy and destroying the Jedi order? This is a bad thing when every last Sith Lord who attempted conquest lost horriby?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And there's something wrong with that? We're supposed to shut up about Sidious actually taking the galaxy and destroying the Jedi order? This is a bad thing when every last Sith Lord who attempted conquest lost horriby?

When did we say that? Don't get defensive.

But YOUR are ignoring that Sidious did this POLITICALLY, and it does not indicate he is a lightsaber or force god.

The team. They're ridiculously powerful alone, but together they're probably invincible.

except for a thought-bomb and various other ridiculuosly uber feats.

And he's done ample enough to prove himself a force god, is my point

Btw, Illustrious: I'm stuck on a locked school computer and can't access every topic....can you tell Nai and IKC that it's blocking the other debates?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And he's done ample enough to prove himself a force god, is my point


Oh yeah ? What has he done ? Let's see...

- some Telekinesis: this has been reproduced by nearly every Jedi / Sith
- some Illusions: reproduced, used in greater extend by Sadow
- some force lightning: reproduced by Dooku, not able to overwhelm Mace Windu's defence with it
- some Battle Meditation (Endor): reproduced by several others including Bastilla a Padawan
- some speed burst: reproduced by others including Obi-Wan in TPM (another Padawan)
- some drain of lifepower (Byss): reproduced by Nihilus who did use it to a greater extend, reproduced by the Exile
- some force storm: reproduced by Darth Bane on Ruusan according to some sourcebook / chronologies

Lightsaber skill: Not able to defeat Mace Windu or Yoda with it. Got defeated in a lightsaber fight by the relative untrained Luke Skywalker in DE.

Conclusion:
Sidious has not a single ability which is unique to him in contrary to the ancient Sith Lords. He has never displayed any noticeable knowledge in terms of Sith Alchemy or Sith Magic, nor has he shown any mastery in terms of lightsaber combat. So...he's the first one that goes down in this fight.



Thank you. I can read your poor excuses myself. It's nice how a computer gives you access to this forum, enables you to read certain topics but totally blocks your access to others.

Indeed, threads in which he is losing badly. But I'm patient.

lol

Nice analysis, Nai. I expect to see : "But teh cideus uses teh anshunt derk pwours of teh anshunt sithz bettur then tehy do!!!11"

I fail to see how hundreds of years is inferior to a couple decades.

Must be the same reason why only high school level science can solve the mystery of Sidious' force potential/calorie intake.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Must be the same reason why only high school level science can solve the mystery of Sidious' force potential/calorie intake.

Indeed.

Star Wars is apparently infected with the formerly Japanese-enclusive child prodigy pwns all disorder.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Star Wars is apparently infected with the formerly Japanese-enclusive child prodigy pwns all disorder.

This one is stupid. Ragnos=NJO Luke.. Add a Kun or a Sidious and he's out.

Originally posted by tdtd
This one is stupid. Ragnos=NJO Luke.. Add a Kun or a Sidious and he's out.

It's possible NJO Luke = Ragnos, but the thing is that we can't say that with much certainty.

Ragnos is described in some of the most grandiose terms of the entire SWU, and he is not given many limitations on his abilities, so therefore we can not simply assume a level for him. I'll believe the only one that can equal or better him with any certainty would be Nihilus because of his rare ability (and even that may actually be a weapon of the Ancient Sith).

More than likely Ragnos goes down, but to rule someone who had no expressed limitations on his ability would be unreasonable.

Agreed

Originally posted by tdtd
This one is stupid. Ragnos=NJO Luke.. Add a Kun or a Sidious and he's out.


Darthsith19? Is that you?

Who?

Originally posted by tdtd
Who?

Nevermind.