Originally posted by leonheartmm
that IS quite a big change on ur part, sayin that pheonix has doplegangers in multiple universes and isnt a single almighty multiversal power{sumthin which u argued to death} as i said before, pheonix is SLIGHTLY above abstracts like ETERNITY, NOT equal to them, but the story is QUITE unstable with pheonix not being present at times where she obviously shud be. and yes in light of the CURRENT UNSTABLE continuity, pheonix had self imposed mental blocks, which she cud remove at any time, n become the cosmic pheonix, but as ive SAID, before, cosmic pheonix is the entire power and WILL of the pheonix force, n jean is not free to do as she pleases, the only where she WAS capable of doin what she wanted was as dark pheonix {n ur gettin personal again by sayin that what im sayin doesnt matter, either debate nicely or dont debate at all} and i have given SEPERATE outcomes of BOTH. ur argument has been proven wrong time n time again, pheonix ws never a single multiversal entity, she was never shown to have the power of god, she was only CREATION, n an abstract who was SLIGHTLY more powerful than other abstracts, she had counterparts in alternate universes just like other abstracts{sumthin u admitted just now} n she WAS in shards, sumthin u almost moved mountains to deny. her multiversal feats were repeated by people like cyclops, which made them void n the only argument u have left is that all pheonixes stem from a single basic, pheonix from the main 616 universe, in a desperate bid to give her multiversal power again, this MIGHT be true to an extent, n unlike u ill accept what is plausible, but then again, all other abstracts of alternate universes are connected to the 616 reality, just like the pheonix shards. it doesnt give the pheonix any more multiversal statues than eternity or death, only LT had multiversal status. THOTU, is thus beyond ur pheonix n u shudnt be continuin this debate anymore, u already have accepted to many things u never did, n the opposition has accepted to pheonix beeing promoted from minor abstract to chief abstract, but nonetheless an abstract. stop this debatin now, as u only bore people to death with it with no viable outcome, only to urself, does it seem that u have made an infauliable argument.
First off please learn to seperate your points into paragraphs. It makes your argument alot more coherent and easier to read.
There is no change to my argument at all. As per usual you have just misinterpreted my comments. There is one Phoenix Consciousness which manifests into the void as the Big Bangs which start off universes. Its still one being my friend which resides in the White Hot room which surveys all of Marvel. As stated in the bio and as shown in the canon comic Phoenix resurrection, the Phoenix is a mutable energy source it can split off into many seperate independent forms however they are still at the core one being, they stem from one source....the Phoenix consciousness of the white hot room. In that respect its similar to Madrox.
As revealed in New X-men as supported in Endsong and as conclusively verified in the latest X-men Handbook, Jean and the Phoenix Force are the same being. As stated in Classic X-men Jean was carved from the Phoenix as a means of it acting upon the physical plane. With that in mind all of this talk of Jean not being able to do this while Phoenix can do that is irrelevant and doesnt make sense in light of what is now firmly continuity. Jean is just a personality of Phoenix.
If creating and sustaining the abstracts of Marvel creation makes you just slightly above them then you're right. Youre too proud to say anymore than that, but you've come a long way Leo so i'll accept that for now.
Im not getting personal at all. Im just stating that conclusive on panel evidence renders opinion on the same thing irrelevant. Thats a fact. Dont be so sensitive.
The Cyclops incident was retconned after AOA came out later and said that only a Phoenix has the power to work the M'kraan crystal. Therefore my argument is still very much in place.
Despite my last post you still seem to be confused so to sum this up i will say again that the Phoenix Consciousness of the White Hot Room manifests into the pre creation void as the Big Bangs which are the Phoenixes. They are all just part of the one force and they draw their power from it. The Phoenix is a mutable energy source as they made sure to state in the bio and as such can seperate into many independent seperate forms which are all just aspects of the one Phoenix Consciousness of the white hot room.
LT has multiversal duties, thats what he was created for. You must be careful not to confuse role with power because as you've probably read from the various LT arguments going on right now, he isnt even conclusively beyond the IG which itself just gives mastery over one reality. LT has been defeated by the gathered power of 6 cosmic beings (none of them abstracts). Dont confuse role with power.
Also HOTU wasnt stated to be the supreme beings power that was just speculation from Thanos who also speculated the same thing about the IG back in the day which we all know now to be untrue. HOTU hasnt matched Phoenixes top feats so how it stands up to Phoenix is debatable.
With all that in mind most of your post is irrelevant as its based on the assumption that there are many seperate unconnected Phoenix beings which just isnt true.