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well the legendary Hal Jordon must battle the Silver Surfer in a remote uninhabited solar system this is not parallax in this battle just normal Hal vs Silver Surfer but there shall be no energy absorbtion from either side.

come on people you say silver surfer can do this and that so how would he do against a GL of the caliber of Hal Jordan with his absorbing powers nixed?????????????

I'm assuming that SS's speed would still play a role in determining a favorbale outcome for him against Hal. These 2 are among my favorites.

SS has never shown to fight at super speeds to my knowledge but if you can say diffrent please do so and no im not making it a rule that he needs to not fight at super speeds im just saying he's never shown that he can fight at that speed. Thanos has never been shown to fight at such speeds yet we all know how a battle between surfer and thanos goes.

As long as SS can still manipulate matter he should win. I'm just not sure that Hal's ring gives him protection from that kind of attack. Take away matter manipulation and Hal's need to recharge (as I could see this fight lasting a long time due to the similarity of the characters) and I'd give Hal a slight edge 6/10. Surfer is a beast but he isn't really that good of a fighter, while Hal is.

why do you give Surfer such an edge and for him to have to recharge he'd have to fight for days or at least a day to my knowledge beside that he can manipulate matter as well surfer has no edge in this fight its just one on one no i can suck the energy out of you nonsense.

Kahn, GL can manipulate matter as well.

SS can basically transmute any elements (for example the elements that make up Hal's body or even his ring) into any other element he wants. He could turn Hal into gold if he wanted to. His power set is as an matter/energy manipulator fueled by the power cosmic. I'm not sure that Hal has ever fought a matter manipulator before and if his ring would protect him. If it doesn't, then SS wins everytime.

Now, as far as I know Green Lanterns don't manipulate matter often (I may be wrong here) and the only pic I've seen of a similar feat is in a very old GL comic so it might not still be in continunity. GL power set that is used most often is energy manipulation. So if Gal's ring does protect him or you take away the matter manipulation, then I'd say Hal would win because he is a better fighter.

the same goes for GL turning SS into a banana

Originally posted by Mider
the same goes for GL turning SS into a banana

Do you have a recent scan of a GL doing that? I don't follow the GL comics so if you know of a example I'd like to see it because I didn't know that they could do that (save the old comic I mentioned). Anyway if that is the case, as I said earlier, Hal would take IMO

GL has turned stuff into confete from what ive heard i think bullets or energy blasts im not the expert on either of them but neither are you there powers are very similar sept for the whole absorbing bs.

I dont think the matter manipulation would work for the smple fact that GL has already changed his own molecular structure from shrinking his size to that smaller than a atom, to increasing his size to that of a giant. Even changing to energy as well as metal.

Err, GLs high-end feats are impressive. But there's no way a normal GL takes a herald without assistance. A herald is like a GL on steroids, and without any of the weaknesses or limitations.

this isnt a normal GL its Hal Jordan

Yes and Hal is fighting a something thousand year old being practiced with his powers for a long long long time.....

Originally posted by Mider
this isnt a normal GL its Hal Jordan

Doesn't matter. It's close enough. Hal is still human behind the ring. Surfer is a cosmic being who draws on the ambient energy of the universe. Durability, speed, strength, matter manipulation all go to surfer. He has better command of his powers, and more experience with them. Moreover, no yellow weakness, and unlike a GL, surfer's body is its own battery.

well id put him up against the yoda of GL's a GL who fought Parallax and was winning i think but when Parallax lost his human half he finally beat the GL but i do not know who this GL is but yes he exists somewere but i dont know his name.

Originally posted by soleran30
Yes and Hal is fighting a something thousand year old being practiced with his powers for a long long long time..... Hal was fighting Cosmic threats way before Norrin Radd was.

Originally posted by slade10
Doesn't matter. It's close enough. Hal is still human behind the ring. Surfer is a cosmic being who draws on the ambient energy of the universe. Durability, speed, strength, matter manipulation all go to surfer. He has better command of his powers, and more experience with them. Moreover, no yellow weakness, and unlike a GL, surfer's body is its own battery. Norrin Radd was a humanoid given massive powers like Hal was.

The GL ring can do anything plus more than Norrin Radd can.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Hal was fighting Cosmic threats way before Norrin Radd was.

How is that Possible Norrin is SO SO much older then Hal ........................

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Norrin Radd was a humanoid given massive powers like Hal was.

The GL ring can do anything plus more than Norrin Radd can.

Key word being WAS. He IS a cosmic being. GLs are not.

GLs lose regularly to relatively weak characters. Their high-end feats are comparable, but the limitations of the ring make them too suspect in a fight against surfer. All it takes is one mistake and the fight is over.

As much as I like my namesake, anyone who can lose to slade is NOT going to beat the surfer.

A GL definitely has a better shot at being surfer than superman, though. That other thread is just ridiculous. This one actually makes sense.

Originally posted by slade10
Key word being WAS. He IS a cosmic being. GLs are not.

GLs lose regularly to relatively weak characters. Their high-end feats are comparable, but the limitations of the ring make them too suspect in a fight against surfer. All it takes is one mistake and the fight is over.

As much as I like my namesake, anyone who can lose to slade is NOT going to beat the surfer.

A GL definitely has a better shot at being surfer than superman, though. That other thread is just ridiculous. This one actually makes sense. Anything Norrin can do Hal can do also.

Their powerlevels are close. 50/50 fight here.

Originally posted by slade10
Doesn't matter. It's close enough. Hal is still human behind the ring.

Hal is still human behind the ring which gives him his power. Surfer is also human behind the power cosmic which gives him his power. See a pattern here?


Originally posted by slade10
Surfer is a cosmic being who draws on the ambient energy of the universe.

The Power that powers the GL's ring gathers willpower from every living being in the universe. And that gets converted into energy. So like surfer they both gather energy from the universe. See how the pattern continues?

Originally posted by slade10
Durability, speed, strength, matter manipulation all go to surfer. He has better command of his powers, and more experience with them. Moreover, no yellow weakness, and unlike a GL, surfer's body is its own battery.

How does durability, strength and matter manipulation go to Surfer? Better command of his powers? Yellow weakness? And the Surfer DOES need rest to recharge. He's even stated himself that his powers have limits.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Hal is still human behind the ring which gives him his power. Surfer is also human behind the power cosmic which gives him his power. See a pattern here?


No surfer is not a human. there have been storylines where he has wished he were mortal again, but he's transformed permanently into a herald. It's not clear if even galactus could transform him back. IT seems he would have done it earlier, if it were possible, given that they've fought innumerable times.

On the other hand, green lanterns are constantly losing their rings. It seems to happen every other comic. The ring power is not part of them -- it's part of the ring.

Originally posted by slade10
No surfer is not a human. there have been storylines where he has wished he were mortal again, but he's transformed permanently into a herald. It's not clear if even galactus could transform him back. IT seems he would have done it earlier, if it were possible, given that they've fought innumerable times.

On the other hand, green lanterns are constantly losing their rings. It seems to happen every other comic. The ring power is not part of them -- it's part of the ring.

Its all in how you look at it. Before given the power cosmic, Surfer was but a mere human. Without it, hes just that. Same goes for a GL and the ring.

GL's may have lost rings in the past, but lets not pretend that Surfer doesnt get his power drained by any villain with some technology.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Do you have a recent scan of a GL doing that? I don't follow the GL comics so if you know of a example I'd like to see it because I didn't know that they could do that (save the old comic I mentioned). Anyway if that is the case, as I said earlier, Hal would take IMO

I thought this was pretty cool.

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/7934/greenlantern66p055zb.th.jpg

He gave the guy new legs. After a while, they do turn their normal color..lol Pretty impressive IMO.

wouldn't kyle have to concentrate on that bums legs forever, lest they disappear as lantern constructs are wont to do?

in any case, i would agree with slade and say that while hal's high-end feats are comparable and indeed superior to many of surfers, he still loses to some mega chumps.

and that's my real problem with DC. the whole damn company is PIS powered, characters that can level planets losing against a shark (multiple times) and a character with lightspeed perception losing against some guy with a cold-ray.

Everyone has low end feats. Surfer has many as well. Too bad in these forums, we take characters at their best, so those low end feats are nulled here.

Norrin has never been a human...................he is a humanoid By the time the GL had to recharge Surfer would be good....................he is constantly absorbing cosmic energy even as he uses it.............................Not to mention if the GL has any weakness at all Norrin could sense it and use it against him..........................and has more stamina then a Human GL.

Regardless if he was human or humanoid, he had no powers whatsoever and he was mortal. By the time GL has to recharge, the Surfer would be good? It takes GL about 4 seconds to recharge. Surfer after being drained, has needed ample amout of time to do so. He may absorb cosmic energy as he uses it, but sometimes he uses more than he absorbs thus needing time to reabsorb more energy. And GL's no longer have any weakness for Surfer to exploit.

Yeah so your saying that Hal has more "willpower" then Norrin has cosmic....................that one is never gonna be proven..........$ seconds would give Norrin enough time to freeze Hal and take his ring EASY very very EASY................I doubt seriously that Hal is more powerful then a thanos and thas pretty much the level you need to be at to drain SS........

Well personally, ive never seen Hal run uout of willpower and need to rest in order to recharge it. Unless you can show otherwise. I HAVE seen Surfer be drained of his power and need rest. How is Surfer going to freeze Hal and take the ring. GL's are immunte to sub-zero temps and extreme heat via ring, so thats not likely to happen. Are you saying that you need to be Thanos level in order to drain Surfer? Are the Kree Thanos level? Are mindless zombies Thanos level? I think not.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I thought this was pretty cool.

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/7934/greenlantern66p055zb.th.jpg

He gave the guy new legs. After a while, they do turn their normal color..lol Pretty impressive IMO.

Impressive, except surfer has resurrected a dead god with the power cosmic....

GL has also resurrected a living being before. GL has also turned an asteroid into a living world.

Originally posted by jrodslam
GL has also resurrected a living being before. GL has also turned an asteroid into a living world.

Err, when has a normal green lantern resurrected a living being?

Surfer resurrecting beta ray bill and reconstituting his hammer:

http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-07.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-08.jpg

Surfer recreating life on an entire planet, after it had been destroyed (notice that he talks about feeling EVERY ATOM on a PLANET):

http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_Vol3-015b.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_Vol3-016.jpg

Like I said, surfer is a GL on some big-time steroids. No way a normal GL wins.

Actually the most impressive feat here is remaking the hammer, given that its a vastly powerful magical item and odin himself was having trouble with it.

Oh, and I'd also like to see this asteroid feat. I know GLs can terraform but that's very different than recreating life on a planet in a moment. It's more like the leg trick over and over (and obviously thus takes a LONG time, when the subject of healing is an asteroid, much less a planet)

Originally posted by slade10
Err, when has a normal green lantern resurrected a living being?

Guy Gardner with the Shark.

Originally posted by slade10
Surfer resurrecting beta ray bill and reconstituting his hammer:

http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-07.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-08.jpg

Surfer didnt do that on his own power. He sampled the Odin Force from Odin. It was a joint effort.

Originally posted by slade10
Surfer recreating life on an entire planet, after it had been destroyed (notice that he talks about feeling EVERY ATOM on a PLANET):

http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_Vol3-015b.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_Vol3-016.jpg

He also mentions that hed use all his power to do so. What happed after the second scan?

Like ive said. GL has turned an asteroid into a living planet, ignited dying suns, put planets back together after being destroyed as well as putting an eco-system back together. And these are "normal" GL's

Originally posted by slade10
Oh, and I'd also like to see this asteroid feat. I know GLs can terraform but that's very different than recreating life on a planet in a moment. It's more like the leg trick over and over (and obviously thus takes a LONG time, when the subject of healing is an asteroid, much less a planet)

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/f069305f.jpg

GL has also contained a big bang that would destroy the universe. Can Surfer do something like that?

Originally posted by jrodslam
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/f069305f.jpg

That's just terraforming. IT doesn't show the entire asteroid being affected, just a garden being created.

And show me a GL containing the big bang, creating stars, etc lol. If you're talking about pre-crisis feats, every character was able to do crazy stuff. So show me something relatively recent.

Surfer sampled the odinforce, but did it on his own. Odin agrees at first but tries to stop the process mid-stream. Surfer finishes it without odin's approval, and to odin's surprise.

And surfer was fine after resurrecting the planet. I don't have a scan (I'm getting these off a respect thread), but I don't think he even fell down afterwards. It wouldn't make sense since he had done it to a planet before (as he mentions).

Edit: Also, I'd like to see a scan of the shark resurrection, if you have one.

Originally posted by slade10
That's just terraforming. IT doesn't show the entire asteroid being affected, just a garden being created.

And show me a GL containing the big bang, creating stars, etc lol. If you're talking about pre-crisis feats, every character was able to do crazy stuff. So show me something relatively recent.

Surfer sampled the odinforce, but did it on his own. Odin agrees at first but tries to stop the process mid-stream. Surfer finishes it without odin's approval, and to odin's surprise.

And surfer was fine after resurrecting the planet. I don't have a scan (I'm getting these off a respect thread), but I don't think he even fell down afterwards. It wouldn't make sense since he had done it to a planet before (as he mentions).

Not quite. If you notice, the words "Build a beautiful world" is used.

Take a visit to theGL respect threads and you will see all the feats for yourself. Why isnt pre-crisi feats counted? Show me something Surfer has done post HoM. A feat is a feat. Show me that a GL cant do the feats anymore or are powered down and we'll disregard pre-crisis.

Key word is SAMPLED. Surfer didnt bring Bill back under his OWN power. We dont know if Surfer was fine after completing the ressurection process of the planet. He stated that he would need all his power to do so, thus id like to see what happened after that, but you cant provide us with that so ill concede that he was drained after the feat. He did mention that hes done it to a planet before, but we dont know the circumstances of that. He he get help before? was it under his own power? Was he drained afterwards? Therefore him saying that hes done it before doesnt say much if we dont know the conditions.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Not quite. If you notice, the words "Build a beautiful world" is used.

Take a visit to theGL respect threads and you will see all the feats for yourself. Why isnt pre-crisi feats counted? Show me something Surfer has done post HoM. A feat is a feat. Show me that a GL cant do the feats anymore or are powered down and we'll disregard pre-crisis.

Key word is SAMPLED. Surfer didnt bring Bill back under his OWN power. We dont know if Surfer was fine after completing the ressurection process of the planet. He stated that he would need all his power to do so, thus id like to see what happened after that, but you cant provide us with that so ill concede that he was drained after the feat. He did mention that hes done it to a planet before, but we dont know the circumstances of that. He he get help before? was it under his own power? Was he drained afterwards? Therefore him saying that hes done it before doesnt say much if we dont know the conditions.

1. My mom is a gardener. She sometimes tells me she's going to "build a beautiful garden." that doesn't mean she can do it all in an instant. It's a slow, season-long process that requires a lot of hard work. I have seen images of groups of GLs flying around on a planet terraforming. If they could have just resurrected the entire world as surfer did, why wouldn't they do it?

2. PC lex luthor stopped time with orange juice. Of course there's a difference pre and post crisis. Everyone had ridiculous, implausible powers pre crisis. That doesn't mean they have those powers now.

3. Pre or post, i'd like to see images of GLs creating stars and stopping Big Bangs.

Good fight. Surfer's speed is the only major difference. Both have limitless possibilities within their power.

GL ring can do just about anything. So can the Power Cosmic.

I'll go with Surfer, simply because of his speed.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Not quite. If you notice, the words "Build a beautiful world" is used.

Take a visit to theGL respect threads and you will see all the feats for yourself. Why isnt pre-crisi feats counted? Show me something Surfer has done post HoM. A feat is a feat. Show me that a GL cant do the feats anymore or are powered down and we'll disregard pre-crisis.

Key word is SAMPLED. Surfer didnt bring Bill back under his OWN power. We dont know if Surfer was fine after completing the ressurection process of the planet. He stated that he would need all his power to do so, thus id like to see what happened after that, but you cant provide us with that so ill concede that he was drained after the feat. He did mention that hes done it to a planet before, but we dont know the circumstances of that. He he get help before? was it under his own power? Was he drained afterwards? Therefore him saying that hes done it before doesnt say much if we dont know the conditions.

What is the relevance of HoM?

Oh, and notice how the GLs talk about bringing up individual seeds and moving soil? This is terraforming, not planetary-scale matter manipulation.

Originally posted by slade10
1. My mom is a gardener. She sometimes tells me she's going to "build a beautiful garden." that doesn't mean she can do it all in an instant. It's a slow, season-long process that requires a lot of hard work. I have seen images of groups of GLs flying around on a planet terraforming. If they could have just resurrected the entire world as surfer did, why wouldn't they do it?

Too bad a GL can speed up or decrease the time of evolution. Much different than waiting for a season-long process. Big difference from what GL and Surfer did. Surfer was already on a planet with water, atmosphere etc. GL has to place and create everything. Kinda like GOD. It was an asteroid. It wasnt a living habitat. The GL made it so.

Originally posted by slade10
2. PC lex luthor stopped time with orange juice. Of course there's a difference pre and post crisis. Everyone had ridiculous, implausible powers pre crisis. That doesn't mean they have those powers now.

Like i said before, GL's havent shown to be powered down by any means or standards. Have you seen a post-crisis feat that they couldnt accomplish, but could do so pre-crisis? People always say pre-crisis GL. Theres no such thing as a pre-crisis GL. Theres no difference. No power down.

Originally posted by slade10
3. Pre or post, i'd like to see images of GLs creating stars and stopping Big Bangs.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/89f32ddb.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanv2173pg144bd.jpg

The key here is that the concept of both characters is the same. They both have to potential to do just about ANYTHING as they are the most powerful GL and herald, and their high end feats are equally impressive. I think that the fight comes down to fighting experience and in that area Hal has the advantage. SS just isn't that good a fighter when his power cosmic doesn't give him an easiy advantage.

Also as regards to Kyle healing the guy in the wheel chair, he later made a neckless for his girlfriend Jade and I think he said that if he put enough energy into it that it would be perminent. But its been a while since I read it.

Originally posted by slade10
Oh, and notice how the GLs talk about bringing up individual seeds and moving soil? This is terraforming, not planetary-scale matter manipulation.
Good point.

Can't see the second image. The first one is impressive but is from decades ago. It would be impossible for a modern GL. When has a GL in the past two decades done anything close to that? They fight and lose to guys like slade, for heaven's sake.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Too bad a GL can speed up or decrease the time of evolution. Much different than waiting for a season-long process. Big difference from what GL and Surfer did. Surfer was already on a planet with water, atmosphere etc. GL has to place and create everything. Kinda like GOD. It was an asteroid. It wasnt a living habitat. The GL made it so.



Like i said before, GL's havent shown to be powered down by any means or standards. Have you seen a post-crisis feat that they couldnt accomplish, but could do so pre-crisis? People always say pre-crisis GL. Theres no such thing as a pre-crisis GL. Theres no difference. No power down.



http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/89f32ddb.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanv2173pg144bd.jpg

Where's the one where he stops the Big Bang? By 'Big Bang' I honestly hope you arent talking about an explosion that occurs in space-time. If you are, you cannot possibly know what a 'Big Bang' is.

In that first pic, he isn't creating a sun. He's powering one. Surfer has done the same on more than one occasion.

Originally posted by TheKahn
The key here is that the concept of both characters is the same. They both have to potential to do just about ANYTHING as they are the most powerful GL and herald, and their high end feats are equally impressive. I think that the fight comes down to fighting experience and in that area Hal has the advantage. SS just isn't that good a fighter when his power cosmic doesn't give him an easiy advantage.

Also as regards to Kyle healing the guy in the wheel chair, he later made a neckless for his girlfriend Jade and I think he said that if he put enough energy into it that it would be perminent. But its been a while since I read it.

Neither has the potential to do "anything." Oan and cosmic energy can both do anything, but GLs and SS both are limited channels of it.

The question is how much they can channel. I think there's no doubt that SS can channel much more. I have no idea why you think hal is a better fighter. SS has been around for millenia destroying planets for galactus and fighting cosmic battles. Not true of hal.

SS gets beat up by guys like thanos, true. But thanos put galactus to the floor. So that's not exactly a demerit for him.

I see the image. That isn't a Big Bang he's stopping. It's something. But a Big Bang it is not.

Originally posted by TheKahn
The key here is that the concept of both characters is the same. They both have to potential to do just about ANYTHING as they are the most powerful GL and herald, and their high end feats are equally impressive. I think that the fight comes down to fighting experience and in that area Hal has the advantage. SS just isn't that good a fighter when his power cosmic doesn't give him an easiy advantage.

Also as regards to Kyle healing the guy in the wheel chair, he later made a neckless for his girlfriend Jade and I think he said that if he put enough energy into it that it would be perminent. But its been a while since I read it.

GOD speaks things into being. Unlike GL or Surfer. They use what is already there. Yes, both of them.

Originally posted by slade10
Neither has the potential to do "anything." Oan and cosmic energy can both do anything, but GLs and SS both are limited channels of it.

The question is how much they can channel. I think there's no doubt that SS can channel much more. I have no idea why you think hal is a better fighter. SS has been around for millenia destroying planets for galactus and fighting cosmic battles. Not true of hal.

Simply that the GLs were created to be a police force, i.e. trained to be able to fight. SS was given the power cosmic and used to find planets.
There is a difference between being a herald and basically a space cop.

As for the ring, it's full limits have never been stated. It is possible that a GL with enough will power could be nearly omnipotent (which is why its called "the most powerful weapon in the universe". In fact the original reason given for the yellow weakness was to prevent a GL from becoming all powerful.
As for SS, I think in the story when he became the Keeper (although I'm not sure if it is in continuity) using the quantam bands he became a match for Galactus. IMO they each could potentially do anything

And in comics several characters have nearly achieved omnipotence without being "God"

Originally posted by TheKahn
Simply that the GLs were created to be a police force, i.e. trained to be able to fight. SS was given the power cosmic and used to find planets.
There is a difference between being a herald and basically a space cop.

As for the ring, it's full limits have never been stated. It is possible that a GL with enough will power could be nearly omnipotent (which is why its called "the most powerful weapon in the universe". In fact the original reason given for the yellow weakness was to prevent a GL from becoming all powerful.
As for SS, I think in the story when he became the Keeper (although I'm not sure if it is in continuity) using the quantam bands he became a match for Galactus. IMO they each could potentially do anything
Very true. There is virtually nothing that either of them cannot do using their respective powers.

Originally posted by TheKahn
And in comics several characters have nearly achieved omnipotence without being "God"

If you aren't God, you are not truly omnipotent.

Omnipotent meaning "having all power"

Even God's.

Originally posted by slade10
Oh, and notice how the GLs talk about bringing up individual seeds and moving soil? This is terraforming, not planetary-scale matter manipulation.


Looks like Surfer was doing the same thing. All he did was add his power to clean and purify that which was already there. You havent shown the planetary-scale matter manipulation.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Where's the one where he stops the Big Bang? By 'Big Bang' I honestly hope you arent talking about an explosion that occurs in space-time. If you are, you cannot possibly know what a 'Big Bang' is.

That "explosion" was capable of destroying the entire universe.

Originally posted by jrodslam
That "explosion" was capable of destroying the entire universe.

Even if it was, it still wasn't a Big Bang. Impressive. It would be slightly more impressive, though, if it weren't for Kismet Powered Superman backing him up. I'll take a chance and say Surfer could do the same.

Couldn't SS just pull apart all of the GL's molecules at once ?

"Omnipotence (literally, "all power" is power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power. Monotheistic religions generally attribute omnipotence only to God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotent#Meanings_of_omnipotence

Basically it means having the power to do anything you want. Characters who have reached it or nearly reached it are Dr. Manhatten, Thanos with IG, and others. Omnipotence is mearly a description of God that means he can do anything he wants. In comics, that is ability is not limited to God.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Looks like Surfer was doing the same thing. All he did was add his power to clean and purify that which was already there. You havent shown the planetary-scale matter manipulation.

Surfer created life without using seed, or any matter that wasn't already there. The planet was devoid of life. He created life. That's a major difference.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
In that first pic, he isn't creating a sun. He's powering one. Surfer has done the same on more than one occasion.

I never stated that GL created a sun. I said that he ignited one that was dying out. GL creating a sun were never words of mine.

Originally posted by TheKahn
"Omnipotence (literally, "all power" is power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power. Monotheistic religions generally attribute omnipotence only to God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotent#Meanings_of_omnipotence

Basically it means having the power to do anything you want. Characters who have reached it or nearly reached it are Dr. Manhatten, Thanos with IG, and others. Omnipotence is mearly a description of God that means he can do anything he wants. In comics, that is ability is not limited to God.

No, it means exactly what the article says.

Omnipotence means having the totality of all power in existence. Power without any bounderies whatsoever. Not the power to do whatever you want. Neither GL or Surfer are truly omnipotent, nor have they ever been. If you are truely omnipotent, you are God.

The terms "omnipotent" and "infinite" are used all too loosely in comic books. It tends to make them very uninteresting.

Originally posted by grey fox
Couldn't SS just pull apart all of the GL's molecules at once ?


I could be wrong, but I think the point of this thread is to take away SS's abiltiy to manipulate matter and Oan energy so the they are on a even playing field.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Surfer created life without using seed, or any matter that wasn't already there. The planet was devoid of life. He created life. That's a major difference.

Was it? Surfer said that it was a dying world. That leaves me to believe that is wasnt completely devoid of life. Many dead but not all. Unless somewhere in that comic its shown that he brought ALL life back to the planet. All that was shown was plants growing.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I never stated that GL created a sun. I said that he ignited one that was dying out. GL creating a sun were never words of mine.
Sorry. I never read your original statement.

My point was that Surfer could do the same.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Sorry. I never read your original statement.

Uhh. I assume that was for me. No prob.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Was it? Surfer said that it was a dying world. That leaves me to believe that is wasnt completely devoid of life. Many dead but not all. Unless somewhere in that comic its shown that he brought ALL life back to the planet. All that was shown was plants growing.
Perhaps I'm mistaken. I need to see the scan again.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
No, it means exactly what the article says.

Omnipotence means having the totality of all power in existence. Power without any bounderies whatsoever. Not the power to do whatever you want. Neither GL or Surfer are truly omnipotent, nor have they ever been. If you are truely omnipotent, you are God.

The terms "omnipotent" and "infinite" are used all too loosely in comic books. It tends to make them very uninteresting.

Or you are a God. Again they have the potential to be omnipotent. A good example is Dr. Manhatten from Watchmen. Essentially after his accident he becomes omnipotent although it takes some time for him to realize this and at the end he says he might go off and make some humans. Some people claim that the "God" or "Presence" of the D.C. universe is Dr. Manhatten. So in the comics it is possible for a character to become a "God". Although I don't think Hal or SS will be doing that anytime soon.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Looks like Surfer was doing the same thing. All he did was add his power to clean and purify that which was already there. You havent shown the planetary-scale matter manipulation.

Surfer was touching very atom on the world. The GLs were picking up seeds and moving soil.

BIG difference. Have GLs even shown transmutation abilities?

Confusing, Jrodslam. In one panel he says it's dying, and in another he says it's dead. You've made a great argument.

Originally posted by slade10
Surfer was touching very atom on the world. The GLs were picking up seeds and moving soil.

BIG difference. Have GLs even shown transmutation abilities?

Into energy, and the like. Yes. In terms of power, Surfer and Hal are virtually stalemated. I can hardly think of anything Surfer can do that Hal can't do using his ring.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Confusing, Jrodslam. In one panel he says it's dying, and in another he says it's dead. You've made a great argument.
This isn't sarcasm, mind you. You've really made a good point.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Into energy, and the like. Yes. In terms of power, Surfer and Hal are virtually stalemated. I can barely think of anything Surfer can do that Hal can't do using his ring.

That's not transmutation. Transmutation is changing the atomic structure of an element. So for example lead to gold.

You can change something into energy by burning it, and releasing the energy in its chemical bonds.

Originally posted by slade10
Surfer was touching every atom on the world. The GLs were picking up seeds and moving soil.

BIG difference. Have GLs even shown transmutation abilities?
Wow. Even better argument.

Originally posted by slade10
That's not transmutation. Transmutation is changing the atomic structure of an element. So for example lead to gold.

You can change something into energy by burning it, and releasing the energy in its chemical bonds.

God damn. You're pretty good. I'm sure jrodlam can find a scan of him manipulating atoms. He's a regular GL encyclopedia.

Originally posted by slade10
Surfer was touching very atom on the world. The GLs were picking up seeds and moving soil.

BIG difference. Have GLs even shown transmutation abilities?

And Surfer was cleaning everything that was polluted. The so called soil was from pummeling the rock.

Transmutaion abilities? Like turning bullets into flowers? Or turning himself and others into energy? Or turnng himself into a metal robot?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Wow. Even better argument.


Yea, there is an old scan of Hal turning himself and I think two to three other people into energy. I don't think he uses it alot, but he has done it before.

Originally posted by jrodslam
And Surfer was cleaning everything that was polluted. The so called soil was from pummeling the rock.

Transmutaion abilities? Like turning bullets into flowers? Or turning himself and others into energy? Or turnng himself into a metal robot?

Disentegrated rock is gravel, not soil. I didn't see him pummeling anything. If you are doubtful of whether or not Surfer can transmute matter, let me assure you; he can.

I knew you'd come up with something.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Disentegrated rock is gravel, not soil. I didn't see him pummeling anything. If you are doubtful of whether or not Surfer can transmute matter, let me assure you; he can.

I knew you'd come up with something.

You're right.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Disentegrated rock is gravel, not soil. I didn't see him pummeling anything. If you are doubtful of whether or not Surfer can transmute matter, let me assure you; he can.

I knew you'd come up with something.

Dont blame me. It was John who said "Pulverize the surface to provide soil." Im only assuming the surface of that asteroid was rock.

I dont doubt Surfer can transmute matter. Has he ever done it to a person?

Originally posted by jrodslam
And Surfer was cleaning everything that was polluted. The so called soil was from pummeling the rock.

Transmutaion abilities? Like turning bullets into flowers? Or turning himself and others into energy? Or turnng himself into a metal robot?

There's a difference between resurrecting a world by touching/manipulating atoms, and moving soil or pummeling rock. The former shows a degree of power/control that the latter lacks. Much as a telepath cleaning a room with his mind woudl be different from me cleaning my room with my hands.

I'm guessing most of those "transmutation" exampels involved green constructs. That's different from transmutation. No one doubts that GLs can use constructs. I'm wondering whether he can transmute elements or change matter states instantly. I've never seen this done.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Dont blame me. It was John who said "Pulverize the surface to provide soil." Im only assuming the surface of that asteroid was rock.

I dont doubt Surfer can transmute matter. Has he ever done it to a person?

Not blaming anything on anyone. I'm just assuring you that he can transmute matter.

Not really sure. Closest thing I've seen is him transmute Impossible Man into Wolverine. Once it was beleived that he had turned Spiderman into stone, when he had actually encased him in solid energy.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Dont blame me. It was John who said "Pulverize the surface to provide soil." Im only assuming the surface of that asteroid was rock.

I dont doubt Surfer can transmute matter. Has he ever done it to a person?

Don't think so, but there's no reason to doubt that he could.

He fights cosmic entities and energy wielders who have similar abilities, so there's no point in even trying to turn, for example, thanos into stone. Because thanos has the same power (and thus presumably can resist any attempt to use it).

Originally posted by slade10
Don't think so, but there's no reason to doubt that he could.

He fights cosmic entities and energy wielders who have similar abilities, so there's no point in even trying to turn, for example, thanos into stone. Because thanos has the same power (and thus presumably can resist any attempt to use it).

An argument I once used. But, this power is like Flash's ability to make people explode. Until it's proven beyond reasonable doubt, one shouldn't use it in debate.

Originally posted by slade10
Don't think so, but there's no reason to doubt that he could.

He fights cosmic entities and energy wielders who have similar abilities, so there's no point in even trying to turn, for example, thanos into stone. Because thanos has the same power (and thus presumably can resist any attempt to use it).


Also, SS is a pacifist so he doesn't go for the kill by transmuting people.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Also, SS is a pacifist so he doesn't go for the kill by transmuting people.

Which doesn't make sense, if he can create life. If he can turn someone to stone and bring them back to life, why not do so to avoid confrontation?

On the other hand, is Surfer capable of turning inanimate stone into a living human being with conciousness?

Originally posted by slade10
There's a difference between resurrecting a world by touching/manipulating atoms, and moving soil or pummeling rock. The former shows a degree of power/control that the latter lacks. Much as a telepath cleaning a room with his mind woudl be different from me cleaning my room with my hands.

I'm guessing most of those "transmutation" exampels involved green constructs. That's different from transmutation. No one doubts that GLs can use constructs. I'm wondering whether he can transmute elements or change matter states instantly. I've never seen this done.

Since you got the scans from a respect thread(like most of us do), we dont know if he resurrected the entire planet. You havent shown that. You have shown Sufer helping plants to grow. Like CC said, Surfer said dying world, then he says dead world. We dont know if EVERYONE on the planet is dead. Therefore we dont know if he resurrected people on the planet. It was never shown.

And no the GL transmutation's dont show green constructs. When changing himself and others to energy, they were just that in an orange-yellow type color. When changing his structre to metal, while his hand was broke off, there were wires inside. When changing energy blasts to confetti it was pink and blue(i believe). No green constructs. When changing nuclear missile into snow, the snow was green however. As well as the bullets turning into green daisies.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Which doesn't make sense, if he can create life. If he can turn someone to stone and bring them back to life, why not do so to avoid confrontation?

On the other hand, is Surfer capable of turning inanimate stone into a living human being with conciousness?


He can't create life or bring the dead back to life. If he turns someone to stone, he kills them

Surfer transmuting people shouldnt kill them. When GL does it, it doesnt kill. I too once believed he did it to Spidey and DD, but it came to be that they were only encased in the enrgy as CC stated.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Surfer transmuting people shouldnt kill them. When GL does it, it doesnt kill. I too once believed he did it to Spidey and DD, but it came to be that they were only encased in the enrgy as CC stated.


I know that you can't be too strict when it comes to comic physics, but if SS turns someone to stone how will they keep on living? Stone isn't alive and once the cells of your body change, then you die. And as SS can't create life, he shouldn't be able to change you back.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Surfer transmuting people shouldnt kill them. When GL does it, it doesnt kill. I too once believed he did it to Spidey and DD, but it came to be that they were only encased in the enrgy as CC stated.

If it's a human that he does it to, it should kill them.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I know that you can't be too strict when it comes to comic physics, but if SS turns someone to stone how will they keep on living? Stone isn't alive and once the cells of your body change, then you die. And as SS can't create life, he shouldn't be able to change you back.

Hmmm. If thats true, then it would seem as if GL's transmutting powers are a notch above Surfers.

I still dont think one would die if turned into stone. Was it Thanos who turned heroes into stone? Or were they merely encased?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Hmmm. If thats true, then it would seem as if GL's transmutting powers are a notch above Surfers.

I still dont think one would die if turned into stone. Was it Thanos who turned heroes into stone? Or were they merely encased?

I think that was when Thanos had the IG and was nearly all powerful. He could raise the dead or just about anything else he wanted. And I don't know weither that would make GL's transmuting powers greater as they hardly seem to use them, but didn't Hal want the Oan energy to bring the people of coastal city back from the dead? So maybe with enough energy a GL could create and/or restore life. But I don't think it matters in this fight.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I think that was when Thanos had the IG and was nearly all powerful. He could raise the dead or just about anything else he wanted. And I don't know weither that would make GL's transmuting powers greater as they hardly seem to use them, but didn't Hal want the Oan energy to bring the people of coastal city back from the dead? So maybe with enough energy a GL could create and/or restore life. But I don't think it matters in this fight.

No, he turned a skrull into stone without the IG. Then he flicked his fingers and KO'd the Thing.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Hmmm. If thats true, then it would seem as if GL's transmutting powers are a notch above Surfers.

I still dont think one would die if turned into stone. Was it Thanos who turned heroes into stone? Or were they merely encased?
Hah! Good argument jrodslam!

Originally posted by jrodslam
Since you got the scans from a respect thread(like most of us do), we dont know if he resurrected the entire planet. You havent shown that. You have shown Sufer helping plants to grow. Like CC said, Surfer said dying world, then he says dead world. We dont know if EVERYONE on the planet is dead. Therefore we dont know if he resurrected people on the planet. It was never shown.

And no the GL transmutation's dont show green constructs. When changing himself and others to energy, they were just that in an orange-yellow type color. When changing his structre to metal, while his hand was broke off, there were wires inside. When changing energy blasts to confetti it was pink and blue(i believe). No green constructs. When changing nuclear missile into snow, the snow was green however. As well as the bullets turning into green daisies.

It says "every atom of this dead world."

And show scans of transmuation. I'd like to see this.

In any event, the more fundamental point is that GLs regularly lose to enemies that would be a cakewalk for surfer. And they almost always need assistance, or some plot device, to fight star-destroying enemies like surfer.

If you know both of these characters and their appearances in comics, it is very very hard to argue that a GL can win, unless you think he can just drain cosmic energy from surfer. But that has been excluded by OP, and it is just as likely (if not more likely) that surfer could drain the GL ring.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I think that was when Thanos had the IG and was nearly all powerful. He could raise the dead or just about anything else he wanted. And I don't know weither that would make GL's transmuting powers greater as they hardly seem to use them, but didn't Hal want the Oan energy to bring the people of coastal city back from the dead? So maybe with enough energy a GL could create and/or restore life. But I don't think it matters in this fight.

Makes sense.

Hal actually did re-create Coast City. From all the memories he had, he was able to make the town along with living people. Only thing is that everyone was green. Hal started to run out of energy and thats the reason for wanting the OA'n enrgy. The Guardians made a specific rule not to use the rings power for personal gain. Hal gained a whole city. If the ring didnt have to recharge, there probably wouldnt have been a rampage by Hal. Maybe eventually, but not then. But youre right. All can be done with enough energy.

Originally posted by slade10
It says "every atom of this dead world."

And show scans of transmuation. I'd like to see this.

In any event, the more fundamental point is that GLs regularly lose to enemies that would be a cakewalk for surfer. And they almost always need assistance, or some plot device, to fight star-destroying enemies like surfer.

If you know both of these characters and their appearances in comics, it is very very hard to argue that a GL can win, unless you think he can just drain cosmic energy from surfer. But that has been excluded by OP, and it is just as likely (if not more likely) that surfer could drain the GL ring.


Here is the surfer

Originally posted by TheKahn
Here is the surfer

Sorry that was unclear. I meant I'd like to see the GL transmutation. I knew SS could transmute.

Originally posted by slade10
Sorry that was unclear. I meant I'd like to see the GL transmutation. I knew SS could transmute.

Sorry

Originally posted by jrodslam
Makes sense.

Hal actually did re-create Coast City. From all the memories he had, he was able to make the town along with living people. Only thing is that everyone was green. Hal started to run out of energy and thats the reason for wanting the OA'n enrgy. The Guardians made a specific rule not to use the rings power for personal gain. Hal gained a whole city. If the ring didnt have to recharge, there probably wouldnt have been a rampage by Hal. Maybe eventually, but not then. But youre right. All can be done with enough energy.

He created an energy construct that resembled Coast City. Not actual, material, Coast City.

In fact, this was hinted in the GL vs Surfer crossover. Hal needed the power cosmic to create the actual matter.

Originally posted by slade10
Sorry that was unclear. I meant I'd like to see the GL transmutation. I knew SS could transmute.


Here is a GL transmuation

Originally posted by slade10
It says "every atom of this dead world."

And show scans of transmuation. I'd like to see this.

In any event, the more fundamental point is that GLs regularly lose to enemies that would be a cakewalk for surfer. And they almost always need assistance, or some plot device, to fight star-destroying enemies like surfer.

If you know both of these characters and their appearances in comics, it is very very hard to argue that a GL can win, unless you think he can just drain cosmic energy from surfer. But that has been excluded by OP, and it is just as likely (if not more likely) that surfer could drain the GL ring.

Surfer also says "Below me lies Lathkolas. A grey, dying world that was once likeEarth. A green paradise."

I really dont feel like putting all the scans, but ill put a couple. Visit the GL respect thread.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/4d2db178.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7848ee1e.jpg

Like stated so many times on this forum, low points shouldnt be used in debating battles. Surfer has draind his energy within seconds and needed a nap. He then was ko'd by Namorita. Hes also struggled to beat Vision. Low showings prove nothing.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Surfer also says "Below me lies Lathkolas. A grey, dying world that was once likeEarth. A green paradise."

I really dont feel like putting all the scans, but ill put a couple. Visit the GL respect thread.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/4d2db178.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7848ee1e.jpg

Like stated so many times on this forum, low points shouldnt be used in debating battles. Surfer has draind his energy within seconds and needed a nap. He then was ko'd by Namorita. Hes also struggled to beat Vision. Low showings prove nothing.

The point of that example was to show that he was manipulating every atom on the world. Dead/dying makes no difference. I'm not sure what the distinction is. For a matter manipulator, atoms are atoms.

Those are interesting examples, but they're also from what year? No one would use the orange juice example to show that lex can time travel; you shouldn't use old dc comics to prove current capabilities.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
He created an energy construct that resembled Coast City. Not actual, material, Coast City.

In fact, this was hinted in the GL vs Surfer crossover. Hal needed the power cosmic to create the actual matter.

Its hard to say imo. I would call it a construct, but he wasnt drawing energy from his ring the whole time. True it wasnt matrail Coast City, but everything/everone was there and functioned on its own. Even the kids and animals.

In the GL vs Surfer corssover, i thought Hal needed all the power just to make things perminant. Plus on a larger scale. He states he didnt have enough power. Just like when he first tried in a way. At least thats what i thought.

Originally posted by slade10
The point of that example was to show that he was manipulating every atom on the world. Dead/dying makes no difference. I'm not sure what the distinction is. For a matter manipulator, atoms are atoms.

Those are interesting examples, but they're also from what year? No one would use the orange juice example to show that lex can time travel; you shouldn't use old dc comics to prove current capabilities.

Surfers energy was flowing through every atom in the world. You mentioned that he brought beings back to life. That was never shown. A plant was shown. Until shown otherwise, you cant assume.

It doesnt matter what year the scans were shown. GL's havent been depowered. Are the Surfer scans you showed current? No. They are just more current than the GL ones. Doesnt meant they cant do them anymore. Time is irrelevant in this case. Because a character hasnt done a feat in years means they cant? Especially if not depowered in anyway? Because Surfers feats are more recent means he can do them but GL cant? Dont think so.

i shall compare the potential between a herald and a a GL there was a GL who had mastered his powers so well he actually fought Parallax under his own power and was winning it was not untill parallax broke away his human counterpart that the GL lost i think while when Surfer was trying to gain the full potential of himself or at least the cosmic bands that quasar usually uses all he could do was lead a weak galactus around but its already been stated that galactus got fed up with him and pimped slaped him.

Originally posted by Mider
i shall compare the potential between a herald and a a GL there was a GL who had mastered his powers so well he actually fought Parallax under his own power and was winning it was not untill parallax broke away his human counterpart that the GL lost i think while when Surfer was trying to gain the full potential of himself or at least the cosmic bands that quasar usually uses all he could do was lead a weak galactus around but its already been stated that galactus got fed up with him and pimped slaped him.

Comparing Galactus to Parralax? Not even close.

Anything Surfer can do with the power cosmic, GL can do with his ring, and vice versa.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its hard to say imo. I would call it a construct, but he wasnt drawing energy from his ring the whole time. True it wasnt matrail Coast City, but everything/everone was there and functioned on its own. Even the kids and animals.

In the GL vs Surfer corssover, i thought Hal needed all the power just to make things perminant. Plus on a larger scale. He states he didnt have enough power. Just like when he first tried in a way. At least thats what i thought.

It was an energy construct of his memories. If it were a bric and mortar Coast City, your argument would be more valid.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
It was an energy construct of his memories. If it were a bric and mortar Coast City, your argument would be more valid.

I guess.

parallax would defeat galactus in a second less you wanna say that galactus can hold off the spectre and recreate the universe i dont think so

Originally posted by Mider
parallax would defeat galactus in a second less you wanna say that galactus can hold off the spectre and recreate the universe i dont think so

Everyone knows how Parralax recreated the universe. He did it using the irregularity in space time caused by the Crisis. Any strong willed GL who knew how to do it could have done it. It wasn't a feat of pure power.

Everyone holds off the Spectre.

Galactus eats Parralax.

Yeah know with the power cosmic Norrin was given the ability to understand all his abilities and how to use them this with speedblitz there is no way a GL should be able to beat him given human limitations.

Ring warns Lantern of upcomig potential threats. If theres no time, the ring auto-protects the wearer instead.

and that still doesn't address the fact the ring needs to be charged. Once that occurs this match is over, Norrin wins simple.

So are you saying that the fights lasts 24 hours and thats the only way Surfer is winning?

If thats the case, then i agree.

However in Kyles case, he doesnt need charging after 24 hours methinks.

nope I am not saying that however I am giving a guarentee win scenario rather then if ands or buts.................

Well thats the only was Surfer is guaranteed a win. If the fight lasts over 24 hours and the Lantern needs recharging. Any way else, it can be called either way.

Kyle doesnt need the 24 hour recharge, so it still is up in the air.

lol it would be up in the air in a Kyle GL vs SS but not on a Hal vs SS one

It would be up in the air either way.

Would this count as transmutting matter?

So Green Lanterns can creat life huh....never knew that.

Kilowog does say teraforming. I guess theyre doing just that.

This would count as transmuting matter.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2372/7848ee1e1kp.th.jpg

and here.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/906/gl51143uc.th.jpg

any GL could have done that? Thats why he needed all that extra power to do so right? Parallax eats Galactus the same Parallax who held off the Spectre the same Spectre who had to recreate the universe multiple times you mean Galactus gets eaten right?

Also doesn't the ring prevent you from killing any sentient being..................because if thats the case Hal is severly limited in what he can do where as SS has a choice and if you do piss him off he will take you down

Hal hasn't a chance.

Deathstroke kicked his ass....

Originally posted by long pig
Hal hasn't a chance.

Deathstroke kicked his ass.... He whacked him once and ran.

THen again, he's done that to entire JLA and Titans teams.

Originally posted by soleran30
Also doesn't the ring prevent you from killing any sentient being..................because if thats the case Hal is severly limited in what he can do where as SS has a choice and if you do piss him off he will take you down

Where was that stated?

Upon recruitment, a Green Lantern is expected to uphold certain principles of his/her/its duty. These principles include:

1. Protection of life and liberty with the assigned sector.
2. Following the orders of the Guardians without question.
3. Noninterference with a planet's culture, political structure or its population's collective will.
4. Acting within local laws and obey the local authority within reason. (Presumably, The Guardians' orders can overrule this when necessary).
5. Taking no action against anyone or anything until they are proven to be a threat against life and liberty.
6. Refusing to use the equipment, resources or authority of The Corps for personal gain.
7. Showing respect for and cooperating with other members of the Corps and the Guardians.
8. Showing respect for life which includes restraint of force unless there is no reasonable alternative.
9. Giving top priority to the greatest danger in the assigned sector.
10. Upholding the honor of the Corps.

Woops those are the codes of the lantern core.........In addition to that the ring doesn't have unlimited power for said 24 hours the more you use the more energy it depletes so you can have as much willpower as you want but the ring doesn't have unlimited energy Oh and by the way Kyle has no auto protection barrier and would get THRASHED by SS ok thanks drive through

Originally posted by Juntai
He whacked him once and ran.

THen again, he's done that to entire JLA and Titans teams.
Yeah, but Hal has balls...Surfer doesn't.

Originally posted by soleran30
Oh and by the way Kyle has no auto protection barrier and would get THRASHED by SS ok thanks drive through
You'd be right if this was still 2001. Kyle gave his ring the auto protect feature from his left over Ion power.

did he give up the power of ion or did it run out like Parallax?

He drained it recreating the Guardians and reigniting the central power battery. Then he used some leftover juice to modify his power ring.

Originally posted by long pig
Yeah, but Hal has balls...Surfer doesn't.

can surfer contain a big bang?

Originally posted by Mider
can surfer contain a big bang?
No but a regular GL doing it was a bit p.i.s imo.

not really all GL's have the ability to raise there power to any level by there will power level, all the GL's are suppose to be like Ion in potential so says the gauridans.