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Whos going to win

I personally don't think I can make an accurate prediction on this fight. We really don't know enough about Vandar or his abilities. All we know is that he is of Yoda's species.

However, given that he is merely a member of the Dantooine council, a division of the Jedi Sect, while Yoda was at the head of entire Jedi Order, and that he died on Katarr without putting up much of a fight, I would have to guess Yoda.

HE died on Katarr without a fight because he didnt have a chance to fight

Well still. >_> We know nothing about his abilities or strengths, and Yoda did a better job of surviving. <_<

Darth Katarn
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: The empty void that is my mind

That last part says it all.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Darth Katarn
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: The empty void that is my mind

That last part says it all.

ouch!

Originally posted by Ganner Rhysode
Well still. >_> We know nothing about his abilities or strengths, and Yoda did a better job of surviving. <_<

Yoda wouldv'e died in the same situation too, so shut your gob, octopus boy.

Originally posted by Darth Traya
Yoda wouldv'e died in the same situation too, so shut your gob, octopus boy.

Even if that was the case, we still know absolutley NOTHING about Vandar, so I don't know what you're trying to argue, you still haven't made a case for Vandar.

I never tried to make a case for Vandar, this is impossible to resolve.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Darth Katarn
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: The empty void that is my mind

That last part says it all.

Hahaha....... Yeah......... Ouch!

Originally posted by Darth Traya
Yoda wouldv'e died in the same situation too, so shut your gob, octopus boy.

Can you back up that claim?

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Can you back up that claim?

When Nihilus drains you of the force you tend to die, so yes, I can back up that claim.

yoda wuold kill him, he has more knowledge of the force, and hes green. oh yeah.

Vandars the same species for all you know 1 naruto he is just as pwerful as yoda

yoda is older and has more knowledge of the force

vander was killed by exar, a sith with little knowledge of the dark side.

You dont know what you are saying vander was killed on katarr after exar and exar had a lot of knowledge of the dark side

Wow.

You two are apparently escaped lobotomy patients. Look, Nihilus > whole planet of force users including a jedi council. If you're saying that Yoda can do this, you're effectively saying Yoda> Nihilus> entire planet of force users.

Let me know when that sinks in.

Seeing as that makes no sense...

*shoots Janus for hurting brain*

We know very little of Vandar's abilities. VERY little.

Exactly, we know don't know shit about Vandar's abilities. This thread is just whack!

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Darth Katarn
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: The empty void that is my mind

That last part says it all.

Originally posted by Ganner Rhysode
I personally don't think I can make an accurate prediction on this fight. We really don't know enough about Vandar or his abilities. All we know is that he is of Yoda's species.

However, given that he is merely a member of the Dantooine council, a division of the Jedi Sect, while Yoda was at the head of entire Jedi Order, and that he died on Katarr without putting up much of a fight, I would have to guess Yoda.

with the little we know it might be best to correct this statement.

Vandar was not a member of the Dantooine council, just like Vrook wasn't. Very few people on Dantooine were members of the Dantooine council. They were only there to train Revan..

Now the outcome for this thread? I have no idea who will win.

Originally posted by 1 naruto
vander was killed by exar, a sith with little knowledge of the dark side.

WTF, Exar has "little knowledge of the dark side"?

Vandar was killed by him? Pass what you're smoking.

Exar kicked the shuffleboard what? 45 years before Vandar did?

Originally posted by Fishy
with the little we know it might be best to correct this statement.

Vandar was not a member of the Dantooine council, just like Vrook wasn't. Very few people on Dantooine were members of the Dantooine council. They were only there to train Revan..

Now the outcome for this thread? I have no idea who will win.

Er, sorry, you're actually wrong. In the game, they even say they're the Jedi Council. Your character can say, "I thought the Jedi Council was on Courscant," and then they tell you about how this is merely a lower division of the council.


Also, Nihilus isn't exactly your most typical Sith. He didn't go down and do battle with all of the Jedi on Katarr, but rather fought them from space using his warped, really weird power. There's no way of telling who would have won in an actual saber duel.

yoda no questions asked

Originally posted by Ganner Rhysode
Er, sorry, you're actually wrong. In the game, they even say they're the Jedi Council. Your character can say, "I thought the Jedi Council was on Courscant," and then they tell you about how this is merely a lower division of the council.

Meh...

a) You can see at least Vrook sitting on the council on Coruscant before the events of KotoR even happen (I don't recall if Vandar was shown their too). So at least Vrook is a member of the Coruscant council.

b) Do you think they would tell Revan that they have just passed by to train him ? At least Vrook did exactly that.

And Vandar ? Well...he seems to be younger than Yoda and at least he had to argue with Vrook about the power of the Exile and we know (KotoR dark side ending) that he isn't able to counter Bastilla's battle meditation - he doesn't even consider to try fighting against it. Seeing that people like Mace Windu didn't even try to contradict Yoda's words, he seems to be older than Vandar and we have seen that he's quite the saberfighter and a powerful force user...

...if you want to have my guess, I'd say Yoda. But it's really a useless debate since we know virtually nothing about Vandar's power.

Originally posted by Lee-San28
yoda no questions asked
These "incomplete" posts will not cut it as a point.

Originally posted by Lee-San28
yoda no questions asked

Yeah, no questions except these:

How powerful was Vandar?

Do you even know who Vandar is?

Do you know who Nihilus is?

Can you stop being a noob?

Hey, Illustrious, I know who Nihilous is, and I addressed the point you're trying to make already, and debunked it, yet you seem to be ignoring my post.

You debunked it with a "we don't know what would have happened."

No shit? If you mean "debunking" as putting on your best imitation of Captain Obvious, yep, you did.

I debunked it in that it was basically said, "well hey. Nihilus took on a planet full of Jedi, one of whom was Vandar. If you're saying Yoda could beat Vandar, you're saying he's better then a planet full of force users."

And I showed that that point had virtually no wait on the current arguement. Unless I understood who made the point I'm referencing, I belive that's how it went down.

Exactly. That circumstance already had no weight. Nothing has much weight in this argument.

The questions I asked him were all in increasing order of ridicule.

Well, the fact that you brought up Nihilous seemed to suggest you thought his position DID hold weight over the arguement, otherwise your mention of it seems quite... Out of place.

Originally posted by Ganner Rhysode
Well, the fact that you brought up Nihilous seemed to suggest you thought his position DID hold weight over the arguement, otherwise your mention of it seems quite... Out of place.
Whos is Nihilous?

A KotOR II villian.

Actually I think he was referring to your spelling error.

If that's the case, then disregarding my points due to the fact that I mispelled an awkward name, then he's being quite ignorant and full of himself.

That's not too unusual for calvin.

Originally posted by Tangible God
That's not too unusual for calvin.

Originally posted by Ganner Rhysode
If that's the case, then disregarding my points due to the fact that I mispelled an awkward name, then he's being quite ignorant and full of himself.
I was just bored and used it to point out a error you frequently made, and it was agitating me.

Originally posted by calvin44
Whos is Nihilous?

Huh? Is "Whos?" a word? What does that mean? Your lack or proper spelling and typing agitates me.

Your lack of proper logic agitates me.

Wow, are you a hypocrite or what?

Calvin14: You made a spelling error! I am going to make fun of you for it, and ignore your post!
Ganner Rhysode: Oh, that wasn't very nice of you.
Calvin14: Well, it bugged me.
Ganner Rhysode: Oh, okay. Well here, I'll make fun of one of your spelling errors.
Calvin14: Wow, you make no sense, wtf. Do you know what logic MEANS?


Oh, the irony...

Originally posted by Ganner Rhysode
Wow, are you a hypocrite or what?

Calvin14: You made a spelling error! I am going to make fun of you for it, and ignore your post!
Ganner Rhysode: Oh, that wasn't very nice of you.
Calvin14: Well, it bugged me.
Ganner Rhysode: Oh, okay. Well here, I'll make fun of one of your spelling errors.
Calvin14: Wow, you make no sense, wtf. Do you know what logic MEANS?


Oh, the irony...
Rephrase, please.

Originally posted by calvin44
Your lack of proper logic agitates me.

Okay.

You say "x" to me, to mock me.

I respond with a mockery based off of the same logic "x" was, that is, a spelling error.

You tell me my logic makes no sense.

I tell you that not being able to see how obvious my logic is makes you dumb.


Want me to spell it out any further for you?

This is what we would call a waster of space, we are getting nowhere.

... wow, okay. I'm done arguing with you. -_-; My God...

Originally posted by Ganner Rhysode
Er, sorry, you're actually wrong. In the game, they even say they're the Jedi Council. Your character can say, "I thought the Jedi Council was on Courscant," and then they tell you about how this is merely a lower division of the council.


Also, Nihilus isn't exactly your most typical Sith. He didn't go down and do battle with all of the Jedi on Katarr, but rather fought them from space using his warped, really weird power. There's no way of telling who would have won in an actual saber duel.

Lets examine the evidence shall we?

Bastila said some of the most powerful masters of the order would be there, honestly why would the most powerful people in the Jedi Order be on Dantooine?

Vrook was on the high council, we see this in Kotor II.

When Vrook said something and Vandar disagreed he simply said so and Vrook changed his tune. Implying very simply that they are at least equals and possibly that Vandar is higher in command then Vrook.

Several of the people including Vandar say they trained Revan on Coruscant only one admits to not doing that.

Now going on about this, why in heavens name would the highest council of Jedi send less powerful and less important Jedi to train the only hope they have for the second time, when its clear that they couldn't do it right the first time?

And who would start training Revan on Coruscant, where he could find a lot of memorry's from his old life, and where he would very likely be recognized by other Jedi and normal people. On Dantooine a relatively small place that could be avoided. Not to mention that Coruscant is a place of constant corruption evil murder and crime, with a lot of bad guys and good guys, its not a good idea to put Revan in such a place. Dantooine however is according to Bastila a place that resembles all that Jedi need and could want.

Most logical conclusion: The High Council Jedi Members went to Dantooine to train Revan there, because they could train him best and Coruscant was not a good place to be. Telling him that however would be stupid, so instaed they decided to play weaker council members.

Still no evidence that even hints of Vandar being the absolute highest in the Order, like Yoda was.

"Bastila said some of the most powerful masters of the order would be there, honestly why would the most powerful people in the Jedi Order be on Dantooine?"

The Jedi Council on Coruscant has what? 12 people? Surely the 20th-30th most powerful Jedi alive would be considered "one of the most powerful".

Vrook could have simply been promoted during the 5 years.

"When Vrook said something and Vandar disagreed he simply said so and Vrook changed his tune. Implying very simply that they are at least equals and possibly that Vandar is higher in command then Vrook."

There were times when Vrook made Vandar shutup as well. In fact I wished he would sooner. Nearly ruined the SPOILER for me.

"Now going on about this, why in heavens name would the highest council of Jedi send less powerful and less important Jedi to train the only hope they have for the second time, when its clear that they couldn't do it right the first time?"

That's a good point. But the only one doing any real training was Zhar. The others were just standing there and making me do little errands.

My question is: Did they know the (main character) was coming to Dantooine to become a Jedi? As far as I know, they only went to Dantooine because it was kinda close to Taris.

The Jedi Council on Coruscant has what? 12 people? Surely the 20th-30th most powerful Jedi alive would be considered "one of the most powerful".

True..

Vrook could have simply been promoted during the 5 years.

The exile was exiled before the events of Kotor, meaning Vrook would have become lower in rank.

There were times when Vrook made Vandar shutup as well. In fact I wished he would sooner. Nearly ruined the SPOILER for me.

I know there were, but if one was on the high council and the other was not then that would not have happened.

That's a good point. But the only one doing any real training was Zhar. The others were just standing there and making me do little errands.

Well they talked to you and said things and did some stuff, you were only there for a few weeks and of course the game could not show all of it to you... But they were there to help Zhar train at the very least.

And of course it is possible that they did not know they were going to Dantooine but that seems highly unlikely if you ask me. I mean the Jedi Council must have had something planned to bring Revan back into training, they must have decided where that was going to happen and when before they even send Bastila away with Revan.

Also don't forget that Bastila said she needed to go to Dantooine as it was the best location to go, when she had most likely never been there before or at least not for very long, this is evident in the fact that Juhani her girlfriend doesn't know Bastila at all except for story's.

Also the decision on Revan was made by the Dantooine council, most notibly Vandar and Vrook. No council but the high council should be allowed to make decisions like that. Which again makes me believe that they were members of the high council.

At the end of Kotor, Vandar leads the Jedi attack on the Star Forge, why would a council member of an outside council like Dantooine do that? Why not a member of the Jedi High Council.

In Kotor II, Vandar is also described as a member of the high council. And they seem to care a lot about him, he was famous enough to be mentioned as one of the greatest losses at Katarr, a member of the Dantooine council would not have had that honour.

Also because Vandar lead the attack on the Star Forge, we can kinda assume that he for some reason was chosen to do so above Kavar. There could be a million reasons but the most likely is that he was higher in the Jedi Order and therefor was more suited to lead the attack.

I suppose. It's safe to say Vandar is a very strong Jedi during the Old Republic, but I don't think there's enough proof to put him above Yoda.

No, but there is no proof to indicate that Yoda could beat him either.

So...

*Summons Artoo's powers and blasts this unholy thread into oblivion*

Vandar didn't exactly throw himself into the assault, he was on a ship with Dodonna...

And? Your meaning?

Just saying that he wasn't exactly a front lines fighter

True, he seemed more like the "wise old consular" guy.

Perhaps not in that fight. It's possible he wasn't a good fighter, but then we'll never know. He's dead.

Yeah... This fight is a huge unknown... We simply have no idea how good a fighter Vandar was.

Supposedly dead, anyways...

No, he's dead. I realize that's a minor inconvenience in most sagas, but there's no way he survived Katarr being eaten like that.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
No, he's dead. I realize that's a minor inconvenience in most sagas, but there's no way he survived Katarr being eaten like that.

Except for the fact that they have no way of knowing if he was there for sure. Afterall Zez, Kavar and Vrook all thought Atris died on Katarr as well... However its very unlikely that Vandar would have survived Katarr and would not have said anything to anybody so he's dead.

He's pretty much listed everywhere as having died there. If he was brought back, it'd be so contrived...

It's highly unlikely, not impossible. Rule 1: We need the body

Yeah tobad the entire planet is gone...

Also....Vandar killed by....Exar Kun, what the hell?!
....did anyone else just get the image of Exar huddled in a dark corner during his little out of body experience singing "One million bottles of beer on the wall"?

Visas survived that, too....and for all we know Vandar pulled an Atris

Visas survived because Nihilus wanted her to survive... Vandar surviving is so incredibly highly unlikely that even speculating about it is stupid, the guy is dead utnil we hear otherwise and we are never going to hear otherwise.

Are we sure he wanted Visas to survive? We don't really know that much...
But yeah, I agree until further notice Vandar's a dead man. However, the no body rule is a factor

Visas is the only one of an entire planet to survive, he then picks her up and uses her as his apprentic eand trains her...

If he would have wanted her dead and couldn't do it at first he would have done so later on. He wanted her to survive.

Yeah, but we don't know a thing about Nihilius even KNOWING Visas lived. For all we know he was surprised she lived and decided she was worth further study

Kermit the frog!!!!!!

Nah, Yoda. We haven't seen enough of Vandaar to say he is the stronger.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah, but we don't know a thing about Nihilius even KNOWING Visas lived. For all we know he was surprised she lived and decided she was worth further study

Nope, the comic makes this quite clear. Nihilus deliberately lets her live...

Yoda is probably better than Vandar, but the evidence we do have in terms of Vandar's experience:

- He was around during the Great Sith War and his students either didn't turn on him or they didn't manage to kill him. He also probably predicted in the final attack on Yavin 4. Of course, we can assume Yoda would be able to do the same if he was put it such a situation.

- During the Jedi Civil War, Vandar presumably predicted Malak's attack and was among the Enclave survivors. As far as Yoda, without Sidious around, Yoda is capable of predicting a great many things.

- However, Vandar couldn't counter Bastila's battle meditation that well. Yoda probably could, since he is also advanced in the art of battle meditation and presumably knows how to counter it.

Yoda would be wise enough not to go to a place like Katarr, as he didn't encourage a Jedi gathering during the Great Jedi Purge. Overall, Yoda would appear superior to Vandar in force skills, and as far as lightsaber skills, Vandar hid in a council room during two full-scale wars, a period of 9 years, Yoda fought on the front lines several times in a period of three years,

- He was around during the Great Sith War and his students either didn't turn on him or they didn't manage to kill him. He also probably predicted in the final attack on Yavin 4. Of course, we can assume Yoda would be able to do the same if he was put it such a situation.

Hu what? We never even see Vandar before Kotor he was around that much is certain, but what he did why and how we don't know..

- During the Jedi Civil War, Vandar presumably predicted Malak's attack and was among the Enclave survivors. As far as Yoda, without Sidious around, Yoda is capable of predicting a great many things.

Perhaps or perhaps he was just hanging out on Coruscant with the rest of the High Council, or maybe he was eating some apple pie with the girl next door...

- However, Vandar couldn't counter Bastila's battle meditation that well. Yoda probably could, since he is also advanced in the art of battle meditation and presumably knows how to counter it.

Nobody could have countered that, she was a Battle Meditation goddes, not even amongst the masters was there one as good as her. It was a special talent she had that made her very important to both the Jedi and the Sith during the war, not being able to counter that does not speak against him. And its very unlikely that yoda would have been able to counter it.

for the rest however, Yoda could have very well called for a meeting like that, or perhaps he would not have. Vandar possibly was or wasn't on the high council during the time of Exar Kun, and we don't know if he fought in any battles there. He did train Revan and Revan turned against him so saying that he never had a student turn against him is also wrong.

All in all we still have no idea on the power of Vandar.

Well, Revan was considered special enough to be trained by Zhar, Vandar, Kreia and Kae (possibly the same person as Kreia).

There is no evidence that suggests Vander had power even comparible to Yoda's.

Originally posted by Numan
There is no evidence that suggests Vander had power even comparible to Yoda's.

Except for him being one of the if not the most important leader of a Jedi order that lived in a time of war... He's not going to be weak and we have no way of comparing him to Yoda, logically Yoda would win because we know more about him. However can we be sure? Or even close to sure? Hell no.

Originally posted by Fishy
Except for him being one of the if not the most important leader of a Jedi order that lived in a time of war... He's not going to be weak and we have no way of comparing him to Yoda, logically Yoda would win because we know more about him. However can we be sure? Or even close to sure? Hell no.

That could have been due to his diplomacy or wisdom. It doesn't give us any indication to his fighting ability.

True, but its most likely that he has at least some fighting ability's, who in heavens name could have lead the Jedi Order or been in the high council and still be weak as hell. Besides if he was smart he would be powerful in the force as well.

Originally posted by Fishy
True, but its most likely that he has at least some fighting ability's, who in heavens name could have lead the Jedi Order or been in the high council and still be weak as hell. Besides if he was smart he would be powerful in the force as well.

He was definitely powerful but not Yoda powerful.

How the hell do you know that? Do you have any proof?

Well at the time Kavar was generally considered the greatest warrior in the order bar Revan, and we saw that he wasn't really anything special against The Exile in KOTOR2.

And dude, you don't have to lose your temper. Stay cool or don't talk to me.

Provide proof, or don't talk to him.

Dude, I don't have time for you. You're lame.

Originally posted by Numan
Well at the time Kavar was generally considered the greatest warrior in the order bar Revan, and we saw that he wasn't really anything special against The Exile in KOTOR2.

As was Mace in his time at least by some... Really Kavar could have been the stronger fighter but was he the greater force user? Dooku could take out people faster then Yoda, so could Mace.. could they beat Yoda?

The point is you are arguing an unknown here, yes it is more likely that Yoda will win because we have evidence of his ability's, however the second you or anybody else states Yoda wins because he is more powerful then you are just being ignorant.

You don't know if he is more powerful or not.

Originally posted by Numan
Dude, I don't have time for you. You're lame.
HAHAHA

The fact that Mandalore thought of Kavar as the best warrior out of the jedi during the Mandalorian wars shows that he must have been close to Vandar. From gameplay in KOTOR2, it is obvious that Kavar is nothing close to how powerful Yoda was.

Also, why do you assume that Dooku or would be able to kill someone quicker than Yoda. The part in ROTS where Yoda and Kenobi fight clones will prove you wrong.

Originally posted by Numan
The fact that Mandalore thought of Kavar as the best warrior out of the jedi during the Mandalorian wars shows that he must have been close to Vandar. From gameplay in KOTOR2, it is obvious that Kavar is nothing close to how powerful Yoda was.
Vandar is unrelative, because he isn't in KOTOR 2, and wasn't in the mandalorian wars.

Originally posted by Numan
The fact that Mandalore thought of Kavar as the best warrior out of the jedi during the Mandalorian wars shows that he must have been close to Vandar. From gameplay in KOTOR2, it is obvious that Kavar is nothing close to how powerful Yoda was.

How do you figure that?

Gameplay first of all means very little to almost always nothing, The exile was draining him during the fight, and most importantly the Exile never once fought Yoda so we don't know how they would compare in a fight.

Also, why do you assume that Dooku or would be able to kill someone quicker than Yoda. The part in ROTS where Yoda and Kenobi fight clones will prove you wrong.

Dooku his lightsaber style allows him to quickly and efficiently take down opponents, Yoda on the other hand just spins and jumps against both Dooku and Sidious...

Mace on the other hand took down Sidious in a lightsaber fight reasonably fast. Yoda his style just doesn't allow quick take downs.

Watch the clip that I was talking about and you will realise how dumb you sound right now.

Originally posted by DE Calvin
Vandar is unrelative, because he isn't in KOTOR 2, and wasn't in the mandalorian wars.

He was around during the Mandalorian wars.

Originally posted by Numan
He was around during the Mandalorian wars.
We can assume he didn't fight in them, because being on the council at that time, when the council was against going to war, makes it unproboble that he was in them, and still let back on the council.

I meant during the period of the Mandalorian Wars.

Originally posted by Numan
I meant during the period of the Mandalorian Wars.
But you were saying they are comparable, when they clearly aren't.

Originally posted by Numan
Watch the clip that I was talking about and you will realise how dumb you sound right now.

Cool it with the insults. Fishy's a regular here, contributed a lot to discussions and is respected here.

Same about me, right Janus?

You are obviously too dumb to understand what I said. Mandalore claimed that Kavar was the most suited in the jedi order to lead the Republic in battle during the Mandalorian Wars as he was the best warrior. He obviously though of Kavar as a better warrior than Vandar, and my point was that if Vandar was better than Kavar by a huge amount, it would be unlikely that Mandalore would have thought Kavar to be the better warrior. And from gameplay in KOTOR2, we can at least get a good picture of how well Kavar dueled with a lightsaber, how fast he was and how strong he was in the force (shown in a cutscene), so it is not completely useless.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Cool it with the insults. Fishy's a regular here, contributed a lot to discussions and is respected here.

As you can see at the top of the page, Fishy was the first to use an aggresive tone. Does that mean I am supposed to let him because he is a respected member.

Alright, you're starting to wear my patience thin, Numan. Next insult you whip out is getting you reported. Rex has little patience for arrogant newbies who run in here insulting everyone like they own the place.

The reason that I called him dumb was because I didn't like his tone from earlier and because it is obvious from his posts that he is trying to prove everything I say wrong and I don't have the time to reply to every single thing he has said.

Originally posted by Numan
You are obviously too dumb to understand what I said. Mandalore claimed that Kavar was the most suited in the jedi order to lead the Republic in battle during the Mandalorian Wars as he was the best warrior. He obviously though of Kavar as a better warrior than Vandar, and my point was that if Vandar was better than Kavar by a huge amount, it would be unlikely that Mandalore would have thought Kavar to be the better warrior. And from gameplay in KOTOR2, we can at least get a good picture of how well Kavar dueled with a lightsaber, how fast he was and how strong he was in the force (shown in a cutscene), so it is not completely useless.
First and foremost: calling Janus dumb? You've just bit off more than you can chew, buddy.
1.) In Mandalorian terminology, and common terminology, are completely different
2.) Canderous hardly is a reliable source, and it was only his opinion. In my opinion, you are a noob, does that mean you are no...well..that's not a good example.

I was actually calling you dumb Calvin.

Originally posted by Numan
The reason that I called him dumb was because I didn't like his tone from earlier and because it is obvious from his posts that he is trying to prove everything I say wrong and I don't have the time to reply to every single thing he has said.

Well if he's making you mad, ignore him. Insults aren't getting you anywhere. They just snowball into more drama. It's a bit bothersome to log on and see you and Calvin sparring in three or four different threads. I think you both need to stop a minute, reevaluate your positions, and be more cordial to each other. This isn't a sandbox, it's a public forum.

Lick some more ass Calvin. Maybe someday they will respect you. Maybe.

Originally posted by Numan
The reason that I called him dumb was because I didn't like his tone from earlier and because it is obvious from his posts that he is trying to prove everything I say wrong and I don't have the time to reply to every single thing he has said.
this is what you do in debating.

Originally posted by Numan
You are obviously too dumb to understand what I said. Mandalore claimed that Kavar was the most suited in the jedi order to lead the Republic in battle during the Mandalorian Wars as he was the best warrior. He obviously though of Kavar as a better warrior than Vandar, and my point was that if Vandar was better than Kavar by a huge amount, it would be unlikely that Mandalore would have thought Kavar to be the better warrior. And from gameplay in KOTOR2, we can at least get a good picture of how well Kavar dueled with a lightsaber, how fast he was and how strong he was in the force (shown in a cutscene), so it is not completely useless.
I'm not to dumb to undersatnd. This post is too dumb to even comprehend after the points previously stated.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Well if he's making you mad, ignore him. Insults aren't getting you anywhere. They just snowball into more drama. It's a bit bothersome to log on and see you and Calvin sparring in three or four different threads. I think you both need to stop a minute, reevaluate your positions, and be more cordial to each other. This isn't a sandbox, it's a public forum.

While I might have slightly insulted him I have been trying to make the thread into more of a debate than one huge argument because I know how annoying that can be. But if you read the last page you will see that they were more out of order than I was. My problem isn't with you Aristocrat or you Fishy and Calvin. I've just joined and I don't want to make like a hundred enemies so lets just forget about earlier.

Originally posted by Numan
You are obviously too dumb to understand what I said. Mandalore claimed that Kavar was the most suited in the jedi order to lead the Republic in battle during the Mandalorian Wars as he was the best warrior.

Wrong. He said that Kavar was the most suited to lead the Republic into battle because he was the best tactician (except Revan). Can Thrawn take down Jedi in melee combat because he's the greater tactician ?



Kavar was a Jedi Guardian and Vandar was a Consular. The latter ones aren't known for fighting compared to the first. So this again proofs exactly nothing. Yoda > Mace Windu. Still Mace was more famous for duelling skills than Yoda.



Remind me: Where did you see him use the force or his lightsaber in a "cutscene" ? It depents on your class choice and the order in which you visit the masters what Kavar teaches you. If the lightside ending is canon, he doesn't fight in the entire game. The only things we know is:
- he froze 4 soldiers when meeting the exile for the first time
- he was trying to capture / kill Malak but only escaped barely alive (and we don't know the circumstances here)
- he was killed be Kreia on Dantooine

How can you judge his power from this ?

Originally posted by Numan
Lick some more ass Calvin. Maybe someday they will respect you. Maybe.
Piss people off some more...maybe one day you'll say it to the wrong person.

"Kavar was a Jedi Guardian and Vandar was a Consular. The latter ones aren't known for fighting compared to the first. So this again proofs exactly nothing. Yoda > Mace Windu. Still Mace was more famous for duelling skills than Yoda."

Well than it is likely to assume from what you have just said that Vandar didn't have too much experience when it comes to duels.

"Wrong. He said that Kavar was the most suited to lead the Republic into battle because he was the best tactician (except Revan). Can Thrawn take down Jedi in melee combat because he's the greater tactician ?"

Ok, my bad. I haven't played KOTOR" for ages so I may be a little shady on the facts.

"Remind me: Where did you see him use the force or his lightsaber in a "cutscene" ?"

He stunned those people when he firsts meets up with The Exile.

Originally posted by Numan
...it is obvious from his posts that he is trying to prove everything I say wrong and I don't have the time to reply to every single thing he has said.

Numan, not sure if you know what a debate is, but to put it simply, in a debate you try to support your side of the argument, while proving your opponent wrong. So to put it simply, he is supposed to try and prove you wrong and if you do not feel like posting a rebuttle, then get out of a debate forum

Look Calvin since I said that I have tried to settle this tension so if you can't be a man and settle this, then at least don't ruin the thread with your vendetta against me.

Also Numan, I suggest you lay off the insults until you have some experience under your belt. You have no idea of the layout here and what is known. Until you get some experience, cool it.

Originally posted by Numan

Well than it is likely to assume from what you have just said that Vandar didn't have too much experience when it comes to duels.

Yoda is pretty much the epitome of the jedi consular, yet would you argue that he has no experience?

Ok, my bad. I haven't played KOTOR" for ages so I may be a little shady on the facts.

If you do not know about the facts, then I suggest you brush up on them, otherwise your credibility will be shot and nobody will have any reason to take anything you say at face value.

He stunned those people when he firsts meets up with The Exile.

I agree with this

Originally posted by Numan
Look Calvin since I said that I have tried to settle this tension so if you can't be a man and settle this, then at least don't ruin the thread with your vendetta against me.
Cool down man, you remind me of myself when i first came here. there is no need to bring arguements into the battlebar or here. and don't mistake my debating to be bashing, caus eit isn't. we are cool now, let's keep it that way.

Originally posted by Lord Darkstar
Also Numan, I suggest you lay off the insults until you have some experience under your belt. You have no idea of the layout here and what is known. Until you get some experience, cool it.

Yes but it was the way in which he said it, the fact that he went up against me on every single point which he probably agrees with himself and the fact that the arguments weren't exactly that great and it was obvious he was just posting opposite views towards me not for the sake of argement but because of his internet grudge on me. If you or Aristocrat had said what I had said, he would probably not oppose your views and it was frustrating that I had 10 more arguments against me by the time I replied to one.

"If you do not know about the facts, then I suggest you brush up on them, otherwise your credibility will be shot and nobody will have any reason to take anything you say at face value."

What, by playing KOTOR2 again. I don't have as much free time as you do.

A little debate never hurt anybody...Fact of the matter is, yes i would have, I have debated both on may occasions, the only difference is that they don't lose thier head in a debate, which is why they have been here so long. Like i said, I'm cool with you, let's keep it that way.

Originally posted by Numan
"If you do not know about the facts, then I suggest you brush up on them, otherwise your credibility will be shot and nobody will have any reason to take anything you say at face value."

What, by playing KOTOR2 again. I don't have as much free time as you do.

Erm... no one is saying you have to play it by next week or anything. But KOTOR is a save anytime game. I work and go to school, full time on both accounts, and I manage to sneak in an hour of watchin movies or gaming here or there. It's not impossible.

Oh yeah about the battlebar, I Know that it obviously made me look like a prick but I'm not actually usually like that. My brother just wanted me to start an argument with someone and he's quite pissed that he wasn't able to make an account himself so I said I would post one thing for him.

Gotcha. Well, i guess you made a mistake, eh?

I don't understand how people who've been here longer get some sort of special treatment on these boards. Whenever a newer user says something against a code of "unwritten rules" they get pricked by sarcastic remarks and snyde comments.

Originally posted by Hello Friend
I don't understand how people who've been here longer get some sort of special treatment on these boards. Whenever a newer user says something against a code of "unwritten rules" they get pricked by sarcastic remarks and snyde comments.

I think you're missing the point; new people who come here and think they know it all and personally antagonize regulars are out of line. If you got a new job and you started telling your senior coworkers that they were dumb and you knew how to do the job better than they did, that'd be what some people like to call "assinine". Now, I don't have a problem with new people in general. If anything, I like the idea of this place growing and having more diverse approaches. But when people come here and act like their kung fu is the only kung fu and insult someone who I know to be reasonable people, I take offense, period.

oh give it a rest aristokrat you windbag!!!

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
oh give it a rest aristokrat you windbag!!!




Originally posted by Borbarad
Hmm...
An old witch, a dwarf and Ogami Itto stand before the Mirror of Truth. Everybody that tells a lie in front of the mirror gets obliterated immediatly.

Old Witch: "I think I'm the most beautiful woman in the world" *zap* she's gone
Dwarf: "I think I'm the greatest person in the world" *zap* he's gone.
Ogami Itto: "I think" *zap*

PWNT!

why?? becuase he used someone elses insult??? that probably passes as "Intelligence" here

Pathetic Losers!!!!

Go back to the cave you crawled out of that is the superShadow Giggletime Happy Thread.

cralled?? what a ****wit!!!

cralled?

everyone can see u edited your post u idiot!!!

NO shit, did i say i didn't? Your the idiot.

Ogami Itto you come in here getting mad at us for insulting, but all I have seen you do is insult. Hypocrisy anyone? Really, either contribute or leave

He's just angry because they stopped selling cherry-flavored men's underwear.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
He's just angry because they stopped selling cherry-flavored men's underwear.

lmao!

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
He's just angry because they stopped selling cherry-flavored men's underwear.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Ir's quite obvious judging by his avatar.

hmmm... this is a tricky subject... they are both pretty good...