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Im seventeen, and Im Catholic.
Ive always pretty much taken it for granted that Id wait until I was married to have sex.......Now Im not so sure.
Is it really a sin to have sex outside of marriage?

yeah, it really is.

That's reason enough in itself to drop religion all together.

I know that the Catholic church says that its a sin....but lets face it. The church is not above corruption or bad mistakes....what Im really wondering is, in Gods eyes, is it a sin?

well, if you are a catholic...then you have to understand that the Pope is gods authority on Earth, and he says it's a sin.

But there have been popes who have had mistresses, and had children.
These are clearly sins as they cant have been married, so does that mean that the pope defines sin depending on who's in St. Peters chair or does it mean that we have to look beyond the men in power for Gods true message?

To a Christian it is a sin, but I'm a Buddhist, thank god. All I have to worry about is the karma I create, like babies.

But why is it a sin?
Whats evil about fornication in the eyes of the church?

Originally posted by Xirius
But why is it a sin?
Whats evil about fornication in the eyes of the church?

Well they believe in the Bible. And the Bible says it's a sin. And the Bible supposedly comes from god. Therefore God hates it. Guess the reasoning is something liek that.

But isnt the Bible open to interprtation? eating meat on Fridays used to be a sin, now it isnt. The Bible is still the same, so its only the official interpretation of it that has changed......is there really anything immoral about it?

Originally posted by Xirius
But why is it a sin?
Whats evil about fornication in the eyes of the church?

I don't know anything about the eyes of the church.

However, fornication leads to suffering. Think about it, you are not the only person in the act and there are complicated feeling involved. What if a child comes about because of the act.

Originally posted by Xirius
But isnt the Bible open to interprtation? eating meat on Fridays used to be a sin, now it isnt. The Bible is still the same, so its only the official interpretation of it that has changed......is there really anything immoral about it?

You want my opinion? No there isn't. Nothing at all.
You want my interpretation of the Bible? Yes it is. If you believe in teh Bible than I guess you would have to beleive it is a sin. Of course it is kind of up for interpretation but I think it says it pretty clear. I'd have too look it up though. Then again. It is int eh old Testamen I think after all it is up to what you think.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't know anything about the eyes of the church.

However, fornication leads to suffering. Think about it, you are not the only person in the act and there are complicated feeling involved. What if a child comes about because of the act.
What if it doesn't.
And creating a kid similar to creating suffering?
Then you are Buddhist...you are all into live is suffering, right?

Crap....I was actually hoping someone would be like "No, there's nothing wrong with it, do as you will with no feeling of guilt"
But I guess its a lot more complicated than that.

Originally posted by Xirius
Crap....I was actually hoping someone would be like "No, there's nothing wrong with it, do as you will with no feeling of guilt"
But I guess its a lot more complicated than that.

Actually I could say that for you...wait....No, there's nothing wrong with it, do as you will with no feeling of guilt ....but before you do...think aboot what consequences might arise and if you are able to deal with them...or at least if you want to take the risk.

Wow. Why can't anyone give this guy a straight answer?

It's not complicated man. It's not a sin, **** what the pope thinks, he's the biggest sinner of all christians anyway.

Go have sex till your brains ooze out of your ears! but use a condom. you really dont want children at 17.

I do respect the pope, I just dont think his word is law.....
well, is there anyone who believs (not necessarily from a religious standpoint) that its best to wait until marriage?

It best if you're not planning on using birth control. Or keeping safe from disease with a condom.

Originally posted by Bardock42
What if it doesn't.
And creating a kid similar to creating suffering?
Then you are Buddhist...you are all into live is suffering, right?

No, were in the world did you learn that? There are some strange people in the world who believe in demented stuff, and they my call themselves Buddhists, but they are not Nichiren Buddhists. We believe in taking responsibility for our lives so that we can be happy. Happy is a thing for us. A child can lead to great happiness, but a unwanted child or pregnancy can lead to suffering.

Originally posted by Xirius
I do respect the pope, I just dont think his word is law.....
well, is there anyone who believs (not necessarily from a religious standpoint) that its best to wait until marriage? Well you asked if it was a sin, and according to the church it is. Should you wait until Marriage? Well, that depends on you. There could be less problems with pregnancy and the like, but still it is not a sin.

This is a sick board, people are gonna tell you to have sex. If you're waiting for them to say NO, it's not gonna happen....haha

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
It best if you're not planning on using birth control. Or keeping safe from disease with a condom.

That is what I was getting at, but I sometimes have a difficult time spitting it out in such a plain way.

lol i never understood why its so hard to say something so simple so plainly.

To Xirius: Put a condom on, go out and find a girl (or guy...or dog...or blow up doll, whatever), screw yours and her(his? its?) brains out. The go to sleep and stop worrying so much about what is a sin or not.

REMEMBER, as a Christian you can sin your entire life, repent on your deathbed, and your acceptance into heaven is still guarenteed!

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
lol i never understood why its so hard to say something so simple so plainly.

To Xirius: Put a condom on, go out and find a girl (or guy...or dog...or blow up doll, whatever), screw yours and her(his? its?) brains out. The go to sleep and stop worrying so much about what is a sin or not.

REMEMBER, as a Christian you can sin your entire life, repent on your deathbed, and your acceptance into heaven is still guarenteed!

There you go: the forgiveness loophole. I would find an answer somewhere between the church and Arachnoidfreak (the devil himself ). It is your life, have courage but take responsibility.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
REMEMBER, as a Christian you can sin your entire life, repent on your deathbed, and your acceptance into heaven is still guarenteed! What if you're hit by a buss when you're not looking...

Its not unwanted pregnancy Im worried about, its just the morality of the situation. Im just wondering if fornication, not its possible consequences, just the act itself is immoral?

Originally posted by Xirius
Its not unwanted pregnancy Im worried about, its just the morality of the situation. Im just wondering if fornication, not its possible consequences, just the act itself is immoral?

Only you know the answer for you...

Originally posted by Xirius
Its not unwanted pregnancy Im worried about, its just the morality of the situation. Im just wondering if fornication, not its possible consequences, just the act itself is immoral? We answered it. If you go by the Bible, then yes, if you don't then it's not a sin, cause only the Bible calls it a sin.

Do you want me to tell you no?...Ok NO don't do it..feel better now? See, at least one person came forward on this sick board and said no...hahaha...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Only you know the answer for you...
Thats probably the best, and although most vague, probably also the most helpful reply yet......I guess I cant really ask other people on their beliefs about my actions. The best I can do is what I think is right, and just hope Im making the right choice.......
This one, Ill need to think about.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, were in the world did you learn that? There are some strange people in the world who believe in demented stuff, and they my call themselves Buddhists, but they are not Nichiren Buddhists. We believe in taking responsibility for our lives so that we can be happy. Happy is a thing for us. A child can lead to great happiness, but a unwanted child or pregnancy can lead to suffering.

I read it in a book...called Siddartha ....by Hermann Hesse. And it is what Buddha said...and Schopenhauer copied.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There you go: the forgiveness loophole. I would find an answer somewhere between the church and Arachnoidfreak (the devil himself ). It is your life, have courage but take responsibility.

That made me giggle like a schoolgirl.

To Xirius: I've been giving you non-vague answers! It's not immoral, and even if its a sin in your religion, repent on your deathbed. You'll be fine.

But the buss......When you're not looking.

Yes, fornication is a sin.

Sex is meant to be the perfect union of two people who are married for the purpose of creating life. This was intended by God. To go against God's will is to literally chose "not God" and is sinning.

As for the forgiveness loophole, a repentance must be truly sincere for it to be accepted. You must be truly sorry for your sins, not just repenting so as to get into heaven. Being a Christian does not guarantee you access into heaven.

There are three components to determining the morality of an act: The Object (Actions), The Intention, and The Circumstance. It takes just one of these being bad or evil for the whole act to be immoral.

Object: Sex (Neutral)
Intention: Pleasure (Neutral)
Circumstances: Outside of Marriage (Bad)
Overall: Bad.

Sorry guys, but fornication is a sin.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
That made me giggle like a schoolgirl.

To Xirius: I've been giving you non-vague answers! It's not immoral, and even if its a sin in your religion, repent on your deathbed. You'll be fine.

I find it amusing how easy you can say that. If there actually is a Wrathful God, which certainly is a possibility, and Xirius has to burn in hell because of listening to you, you both might think a little different.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I find it amusing how easy you can say that. If there actually is a Wrathful God, which certainly is a possibility, and Xirius has to burn in hell because of listening to you, you both might think a little different.

When was the last time you read the Bible? It says clearly there that repenting washes away ALL of your sin. Therefore, repent before you die, and you're guarenteed access to heaven. Its true. Whether God is wrathful or not.

Originally posted by Xirius
Thats probably the best, and although most vague, probably also the most helpful reply yet......I guess I cant really ask other people on their beliefs about my actions. The best I can do is what I think is right, and just hope Im making the right choice.......
This one, Ill need to think about.

Hey! That is what I am good at, vague but profound.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I read it in a book...called Siddartha ....by Hermann Hesse. And it is what Buddha said...and Schopenhauer copied.

I know, but I'm a new type of Buddhist.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Hey! That is what I am good at, vague but profound.



I know, but I'm a new type of Buddhist.
Well but then you should maybe not clai to be a real buddhist..but a Neo-Buddhist or something

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
When was the last time you read the Bible? It says clearly there that repenting washes away ALL of your sin. Therefore, repent before you die, and you're guarenteed access to heaven. Its true. Whether God is wrathful or not.

But it has to be honest ....fake won't do it. Plus...who says that the Bible is the ultimate truth...maybe there is a god that doesn't like fornication but wants people to not do it in the fiors place....repenting might not quite cut it.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
When was the last time you read the Bible? It says clearly there that repenting washes away ALL of your sin. Therefore, repent before you die, and you're guarenteed access to heaven. Its true. Whether God is wrathful or not.

He's right. Works will not get you into heaven, only by the grace of god.

Originally posted by Bardock42


But it has to be honest ....fake won't do it. Plus...who says that the Bible is the ultimate truth...maybe there is a god that doesn't like fornication but wants people to not do it in the fiors place....repenting might not quite cut it.

Then everyone on the planet is ****ed because noone knows who this god is or what his rules are.

That's why I follow my own rules...within the law of course. I dont need to be ass raped. **** entities I can't see, touch, hear, smell or taste.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Then everyone on the planet is ****ed because noone knows who this god is or what his rules are.

You know, Hitler could be in heaven right now. Is anyone going to say, "no, god, no"?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He's right. Works will not get you into heaven, only by the grace of god.


Woah woah woah....what's up with all you people assuming that everythiogn you shit is gold.

The matter of the fact is that there is no straight answer at least not know to us....you all are just stating your opinion....although you pretend you don't.

When it comes down to it Dawson might be jsut as right as you think you are.

Oh and even as a Neo-Buddhist you shouldn't claim that it is possible to reach heaven.....you seem to have some Christianized version of Buddhism (I dopn't say that is wrong it is jsut different)

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Then everyone on the planet is ****ed because noone knows who this god is or what his rules are.

That's why I follow my own rules...within the law of course. I dont need to be ass raped. **** entities I can't see, touch, hear, smell or taste.

Why? I mean no one does actually know. And this Planet seems pretty fine to me. Why do you think it would be ****ed?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You know, Hitler could be in heaven right now. Is anyone going to say, "no, god, no"?
Yes he could...your point?

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Then everyone on the planet is ****ed because noone knows who this god is or what his rules are.

I think god would be above procreation exercises whether for fun or not....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why? I mean no one does actually know. And this Planet seems pretty fine to me. Why do you think it would be ****ed?


Yes he could...your point?

Just making a funny. Did I offend you? I am sorry, if I did.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why? I mean no one does actually know. And this Planet seems pretty fine to me. Why do you think it would be ****ed?

Seems fine to me too. That's because we're alive. What if every religion is wrong because we don't know this god's rules and everyone on the planet ends up burning for eternity? We'd be ****ed.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Just making a funny. Did I offend you? I am sorry, if I did.
But that's not a "funny"...it is a clear possibility...why should that be a joke? You didn't offend me at all..it may very well be that way.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Seems fine to me too. That's because we're alive. What if every religion is wrong because we don't know this god's rules and everyone on the planet ends up burning for eternity? We'd be ****ed.

Well, yeah..but this planet wouldn't. It*S just a possibility. The thing is I believe you gave sa straight answer for something there isn't a straight answer. He has to decide for hiself and we can jsut give him our personal opinions.

Originally posted by Bardock42
But that's not a "funny"...it is a clear possibility...why should that be a joke? You didn't offend me at all..it may very well be that way.

I don't believe in a heaven after life. I believe in reincarnation. That means that he is walking among us right now. Ether you or I could be him.

But if he's looking for what the Christian religions have to say about it, then fornication is a true sin as it is morally evil. It's not as severe as adultry, but it is a sin in the eyes of Christian religions.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, yeah..but this planet wouldn't. It*S just a possibility. The thing is I believe you gave sa straight answer for something there isn't a straight answer. He has to decide for hiself and we can jsut give him our personal opinions.

You know, I see your point, but I just don't agree. I don't see the reason to make things so complicated.

If you really want to have sex, then have sex, make sure you use a condom so you don't get anyone pregnant or get an STD. If you regret it, repent. All is forgiven in the Christian religion.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
You know, I see your point, but I just don't agree. I don't see the reason to make things so complicated.

If you really want to have sex, then have sex, make sure you use a condom so you don't get anyone pregnant or get an STD. If you regret it, repent. All is forgiven in the Christian religion. For repentance to work, you must try to never do it again and truly be sorry..real sorry.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't believe in a heaven after life. I believe in reincarnation. That means that he is walking among us right now. Ether you or I could be him.

What were you trying to say with this then:

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He's right. Works will not get you into heaven, only by the grace of god.


Anyways, I agree...that is also a possibility...

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
You know, I see your point, but I just don't agree. I don't see the reason to make things so complicated.

If you really want to have sex, then have sex, make sure you use a condom so you don't get anyone pregnant or get an STD. If you regret it, repent. All is forgiven in the Christian religion.

But not all is forgiven in any other religion.

SO I basically agree with you from my point of view. But don't state it as if it were a fact. Cause I am pretty sure you don't know it is a fact at all.

Originally posted by Dawson
But if he's looking for what the Christian religions have to say about it, then fornication is a true sin as it is morally evil. It's not as severe as adultry, but it is a sin in the eyes of Christian religions.
Actually he was looking for what God had to say aboot it.And I think no one can really tell him. He stated he knows what the Christian Religions think aboot it, but they don't have any particular right to state what God actually thinks...if he exists.

Just because sins are forgiven doesn't mean that you go **** up your life and then expect to just make it all go away.

And those of us who are Catholic (a section of Christianity, btw) believe that what we are taught by the Church is what God has to say about it, and that He does exist.

Originally posted by Dawson
Just because sins are forgiven doesn't mean that you go **** up your life and then expect to just make it all go away.

And those of us who are Catholic (a section of Christianity, btw) believe that what we are taught by the Church is what God has to say about it, and that He does exist.
Yes. What is your point? That was not what he asked. He asked if God himself cares for Fornication or if it is just the Religions that included that.

Originally posted by Bardock42


SO I basically agree with you from my point of view. But don't state it as if it were a fact. Cause I am pretty sure you don't know it is a fact at all.

If I don't know it as a fact, then what I say has no grounds at all and I don't have a basis to believe in anything, because noone can prove what they believe is fact. Just like every religion states what they -believe- is fact.

You are correct is saying that there is no way of knowing who is right in whatever religion, that's precisely why I don't have a religion. Who knows who is right? As far as I'm concerned, as far as my beliefs go, I'm right, religions can poke themselves in the butt.

The only thing to do is just what I said. If he really wants to have sex, just go ahead and do it. If he regrets it and it feels wrong, repent. If he doesnt want to do it, then he doesnt do it. Simple.

Originally posted by Dawson
Just because sins are forgiven doesn't mean that you go **** up your life and then expect to just make it all go away.

And those of us who are Catholic (a section of Christianity, btw) believe that what we are taught by the Church is what God has to say about it, and that He does exist.

Unfortunately the Catholic Church has a track record for being the most corrupt church in history, Christian or otherwise.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
If I don't know it as a fact, then what I say has no grounds at all and I don't have a basis to believe in anything, because noone can prove what they believe is fact. Just like every religion states what they -believe- is fact.

You are correct is saying that there is no way of knowing who is right in whatever religion, that's precisely why I don't have a religion. Who knows who is right? As far as I'm concerned, as far as my beliefs go, I'm right, religions can poke themselves in the butt.

The only thing to do is just what I said. If he really wants to have sex, just go ahead and do it. If he regrets it and it feels wrong, repent. If he doesnt want to do it, then he doesnt do it. Simple.

Well then I guess this is clear now. I jsut wanted you to understand why a Straight answer is not necessarily the best in this case.

Look, if your gonna go by scripture...yes, it's a sin.

lookin morally, its NOT a sin, u n ur partner get pleasure, u dont hurt any1, u lessen ur chances of raping sum1 due to frustration etc. the only wrong thing i see with this is that people generally do it with people they have no feelins for instead of a real gf/bf who have every intention of stayin together, this kinda has a bad affect on the loving/romantic/soul aspect of it, but its not wrong in any way, as long as u dont end up transmitting an std or gettin sum1 pregnant, cause thatd be wrong to the person/child. now ADULTERY however is a moral sin infront of me, ur cheating on sum1, hurtin ur wife/kids/family n that sucks.

I don't believe sex before marriage is a sin. You don't have to take everything in the Bible literally.

Some people never get married. Some people marry for the first time when they are in their late thirties, or forties. If they saved themselves, they'd be virgins at that age. If marriage is for procreation, they would be too old to have children, so what would be the point of them getting married in the first place?

Fornication is only a sin if you believe it to be a sin, and I get the sense that you don't believe it to be so.

Sex is love. You are free to have sex whenever you like, God can't stop you.

Besides, the whole idea of no sex before marriage is very old fashioned.

Originally posted by Xirius
Im seventeen, and Im Catholic.
Ive always pretty much taken it for granted that Id wait until I was married to have sex.......Now Im not so sure.
Is it really a sin to have sex outside of marriage?

You're Catholic and you're not sure if having sex outside of marriage is a sin? Wow. It's Catholic tradition to wait until marriage to have sex, and even then, you're supposd to only have sex to have children. Have fun with that.

Originally posted by Ladyluck
You're Catholic and you're not sure if having sex outside of marriage is a sin? Wow. It's Catholic tradition to wait until marriage to have sex, and even then, you're supposd to only have sex to have children. Have fun with that.

He asked if the Catholic Church was actually sayin g what this god person might believe.

according to your catholic beliefs it would. Me I dont go for that religious narrow minded views. I aint married we chose to live together and we have two kids together. Sin dont exist in my world, that is a religious scare tactic to make people follow their way or else.............

According to Catholicism, any sexual action that does not lead to an opportunity of creation of a human life and is outside the union of marriage is considered a sin.

Originally posted by Storm
According to Catholicism, any sexual action that does not lead to an opportunity of creation of a human life and is outside the union of marriage is considered a sin.

What if two people who are married, and are also infertile? Having sex would be for pleasure, not for the creation of human life, so should infertile couples be able to marry, according to the Catholic Church?

yes cause if you are to marry you marry out of love not fertility

If we were to take the premise seriously that the natural end of marriage (or sex) is procreation, there would have to be a
radical change in the laws surrounding marriages because no infertile couples would be allowed to marry in the first place.

On top of that, the Church has condemned a wide range of infertility services, including in vitro fertilization.

Okay, well, as we are on the fornication subject, what about masturbation? I know the Church condems it, is this because the consider it to be murder? I know this is what some people think, that it's the killing of potential life in sperm. But what about women? We have periods, and we lose an egg. This is also potential life. Does this mean that that all women are killers, too? I have often wondered that.

Originally posted by Makedde
Okay, well, as we are on the fornication subject, what about masturbation? I know the Church condems it, is this because the consider it to be murder? I know this is what some people think, that it's the killing of potential life in sperm. But what about women? We have periods, and we lose an egg. This is also potential life. Does this mean that that all women are killers, too? I have often wondered that.

that's not it at all

they consider it to be a form of lust, which is a deadly sin

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
that's not it at all

they consider it to be a form of lust, which is a deadly sin

But don't you need lust in order to have a healthy sexual relationship? All married couples lustafter each other, if they didn't it'd be a boring marriage.

no you just have to be horny ohhhhhh and married couples often lust after others more than their .......................

Originally posted by Xirius
Im seventeen, and Im Catholic.
Ive always pretty much taken it for granted that Id wait until I was married to have sex.......Now Im not so sure.
Is it really a sin to have sex outside of marriage?

yes

her we have exibit A):
Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman and is a grave sin (CCC 2353). St. Paul condemns fornication in his epistle 1 Corinthians 6:18. All aspects of intimate contact associated with the marriage act also constitute fornication for Jesus said, "I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 9:28). If lustful looks are adulterous, how much worse is lustful physical contact?

and exibit B)

In the Bible, St. Paul gives us a list of grave sins. He states that anyone who commits these sins shall not enter the kingdom of God. "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-20). Paul also tells the Corinthians, "know you no that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards nor railers, nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). These sins constitute grave matter, and if they are committed willingly and with full consent, constitute mortal sin.

what about you trying to get laid and then come back and talk the talk

Sorry, that's not cool anymore...

It may be a sin for Christians, but for anyone else who is a non believer, it isn't. How can it be?

Just because you don't believe in the air, doesn't mean it doesn't exsist...

Originally posted by AOR
Just because you don't believe in the air, doesn't mean it doesn't exsist...

I agree.

Isn't sex before marriage only a sin to the person who believes it is?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I agree.

yes!!!

1 for me, 0 for Makedde

Originally posted by Makedde
Isn't sex before marriage only a sin to the person who believes it is?

once again I say, "just because you don't believe in the sin, doesn't make the action right."

doesnt make it wrong either

Just because people think somethings a sin doesn't make it so.....Sins are man made....A god would care what us little humans do.

Originally posted by finti
doesnt make it wrong either

no, no it does...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Just because people think somethings a sin doesn't make it so.....Sins are man made....A god would care what us little humans do.

Unless this God lives for us, in which case yes, yes he would...

If I have sex before marriage, and I don't believe it is a sin, and you come along and tell me it is a sin, it can't be a sin because I don't believe it's a sin.

Originally posted by AOR
Unless this God lives for us, in which case yes, yes he would... God doesn't live for us....god is part of what we are...It wouldn't get mad at parts of it's self would it?

Originally posted by Makedde
If I have sex before marriage, and I don't believe it is a sin, and you come along and tell me it is a sin, it can't be a sin because I don't believe it's a sin.

If you didn't know, that's one thing. But when you know, and do it anyway than that's a different story. And once again just because you don't believe in it, doesn't make it right...

Originally posted by debbiejo
God doesn't live for us....god is part of what we are...It wouldn't get mad at parts of it's self would it?

If the one cell of the body doesn't work, the entire body fails. Thus the body moves to correct it. It's not in so much that it gets angry, but feels in an Essenes "saddened" because the body isn't working at optimum efficiency...

Originally posted by AOR
If you didn't know, that's one thing. But when you know, and do it anyway than that's a different story. And once again just because you don't believe in it, doesn't make it right...

So, just because you believe it is a sin, it's a sin for me? It isn't a sin, because I don't believe it to be so. Besides, what if someone gets married late in life? You really think people would be happy with the idea of being 45 year old virgins?

its a sin only to the ones who follow the doctrin of the so called wholy book, to the rest no it aint a sin, its just a violation of your kins

Originally posted by finti
its a sin only to the ones who follow the doctrin of the so called wholy book, to the rest no it aint a sin, its just a violation of your kins

I am sorry for being a little slow, but what exactly is a 'violation of your kins'?

Originally posted by AOR
If the one cell of the body doesn't work, the entire body fails. Thus the body moves to correct it. It's not in so much that it gets angry, but feels in an Essenes "saddened" because the body isn't working at optimum efficiency... and would god throw part of it's self into hell for not being perfect?....no...

We are not perfect and since we are part of what god is, god is not perfect, just as it would make since.

suicide is a violation to your kins cause they are the ones left behind with all the questions and emotion about the it

Originally posted by finti
suicide is a violation to your kins cause they are the ones left behind with all the questions and emotion about the it

How is fornication a violation of this?

Kins are your family, or people.......

Originally posted by Makedde
So, just because you believe it is a sin, it's a sin for me? It isn't a sin, because I don't believe it to be so. Besides, what if someone gets married late in life? You really think people would be happy with the idea of being 45 year old virgins?


I don't believe in air.

Since when do you live for other people. I didn't know their opinions are what mattered in life...

Originally posted by debbiejo
and would god throw part of it's self into hell for not being perfect?....no...

We are not perfect and since we are part of what god is, god is not perfect, just as it would make since.

He doesn't throw, we throw. As in we throw ourselves...


God is perfect, but we are not. God became man, so that man could become God...

Originally posted by AOR
He doesn't throw, we throw. As in we throw ourselves...


God is perfect, but we are not. God became man, so that man could become God...

There is no way on this earth that any man is good enough to become God.

Originally posted by AOR
I don't believe in air.

Since when do you live for other people. I didn't know their opinions are what mattered in life...

"live for other people" is the most selfish thing you can do.

Originally posted by Makedde
There is no way on this earth that any man is good enough to become God.

But you are part of God.

Originally posted by Makedde
How is fornication a violation of this?

How is having sex with a woman, getting her pregnant, and then having a complete disregard of your moral and physical responsibilities (by perhaps sending her to have an abortion) so that you can you can have your moments of pleasure again.

Originally posted by AOR
How is having sex with a woman, getting her pregnant, and then having a complete disregard of your moral and physical responsibilities (by perhaps sending her to have an abortion) so that you can you can have your moments of pleasure again.

That is a wrong way to deal with life in so many ways.

Originally posted by AOR
He doesn't throw, we throw. As in we throw ourselves...


That's docterine.....we don't throw ourselves into hell, and god doesn't throw us in hell, because hell is not a real place as I have should in other threads.....Gehenna was a place outside Jeruslem that was for burning garbage, dead bodies and such....hell, and shoel and pit....are just meaning grave.

Well if you don't believe in Fornication a "wrong" than you can do that, and keep doing it, and doing it, and doing it,....it's a satanic energizer bunny

Originally posted by AOR
Well if you don't believe in Fornication a "wrong" than you can do that, and keep doing it, and doing it, and doing it,....it's a satanic energizer bunny ....Thanks for you permission...

Originally posted by debbiejo
That's docterine.....we don't throw ourselves into hell, and god doesn't throw us in hell, because hell is not a real place as I have should in other threads.....Gehenna was a place outside Jeruslem that was for burning garbage, dead bodies and such....hell, and shoel and pit....are just meaning grave.

There is a such place as hell. But then I speak for my faith alone...

Originally posted by debbiejo
....Thanks for you permission...

permission for what?

Originally posted by AOR
There is a such place as hell. But then I speak for my faith alone...

I thought Hell was just a Christian invention design to scare all the Pagan's into converting.

Originally posted by AOR
permission for what? fornicating like a energizer bunny.

Originally posted by debbiejo
....Thanks for you permission... ...indeed...

I'll think of you whenever I fornicate.. droolio...

Originally posted by AOR
How is having sex with a woman, getting her pregnant, and then having a complete disregard of your moral and physical responsibilities (by perhaps sending her to have an abortion) so that you can you can have your moments of pleasure again.

Most people would be responsible. Besides, the man can send the woman to have an abortion, but she doesn't have to have one.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
...indeed...

I'll think of you whenever I fornicate.. droolio...

Masturbation is a different thread.

Originally posted by Makedde
I thought Hell was just a Christian invention design to scare all the Pagan's into converting.

*sigh* so many misconceptions. If you believe in a place called hell, it is a place were people choose to go, who decide to live a life disconnected with God. So when you die God says, "how did you live your life?" and you will respond "away from you" and (the name escapes for the moment but) because you are in the presence of God you can not lie and thus you say "and by my actions in life I have choosen to spend the rest of eternity away from you" and that is hell. Complete and utter separation from God. Granted I'm sure the speech doesn't go in any way shape or form like that but you get the picture

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Masturbation is a different thread. Also a sin... everything fun is apparently a sin...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Also a sin... everything fun is apparently a sin...

Just like, every thing that taste good, makes you fat.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Just like, every thing that taste good, makes you fat. I can eat and eat and not get fat... good metabolism. Good metabolism allows me to do other things over and over again too... shifty

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I can eat and eat and not get fat... good metabolism. Good metabolism allows me to do other things over and over again too... shifty

no2

You live by the rules of your god... I'll live by the rules of mine...
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00008WFNH.02.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You live by the rules of your god... I'll live by the rules of mine...
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00008WFNH.02.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

yes go play in your puppy world, and let the big dogs play in the real world. jk

I'm off, wavey

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You live by the rules of your god... I'll live by the rules of mine...
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00008WFNH.02.MZZZZZZZ.jpg SPOTS back...............

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
...indeed...

I'll think of you whenever I fornicate.. droolio... You better not.......

Originally posted by debbiejo
You better not....... Not you debbiejo... I'm thinking of AOR... so dreamy.... droolio

Avert your eyes! fear Lesbians.... fear fornicating...
http://www.bullz-eye.com/opposite_sex/images/lesbians_kiss.jpg

That's like an affront to god to the power of two...

Ohhhh xmark.....how could you in a religous forum.....For shame on you........

Originally posted by Xirius
I do respect the pope, I just dont think his word is law.....
well, is there anyone who believs (not necessarily from a religious standpoint) that its best to wait until marriage?

His word is the law if your participating in the church and still want to be a follower of that church. I disagree with that certain religion but if your participating in it then do what he says.Its in the bible. I can give you scripture if you would like. If want to have premarital sex then by all means, do. But don't associate with the pleasures of the world and still try to be spiritual and holy as well.

Toughy....I don't know. We are human beings and sexual creatures by nature.....I hope not anyway.

Originally posted by BobbyD
Toughy....I don't know. We are human beings and sexual creatures by nature.....I hope not anyway.

That is a good point, we are sexual creatures. Why would god have made us so sexual and then make sex a sin?

Sex isn't a sin, ironically, it's a sin when you deprive it of it's symbolism. Aside from procreation, it is a symbol of unity of the husband in wife. A process they don't share with anyone else other than themselves. Hence when you take it outside of marriage, you use it as a tool for self-pleasure in which either gender can be considered an object. A sort of mentality that should never be considered of anyone or other living thing...

Originally posted by AOR
Sex isn't a sin, ironically, it's a sin when you deprive it of it's symbolism. Aside from procreation, it is a symbol of unity of the husband in wife. A process they don't share with anyone else other than themselves. Hence when you take it outside of marriage, you use it as a tool for self-pleasure in which either gender can be considered an object. A sort of mentality that should never be considered of anyone or other living thing...

Ultimately it is what we do and how we do it that matters. Nothing is sinful without us.

What happens when someone (a friend) you know helps a friend of theirs that married commit adultery?

Is that a sin? And if so, for which party? The single one or the married one only?

Originally posted by BobbyD
What happens when someone (a friend) you know helps a friend of theirs that married commit adultery?

Is that a sin? And if so, for which party? The single one or the married one only?

Yes for both parties. The instigator for not being a friend in the first place, and the married one for a). falling into such the situation (dependant) and b).for actually commiting the adultery.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ultimately it is what we do and how we do it that matters. Nothing is sinful without us.

Sin was there before us, hence the fight with Lucifer and God. Not to be mistake with Lucifer/Satan being God's equal. As it was St. Michael that is Satan's equal, as God is God and has no equal.

Originally posted by AOR
Sex isn't a sin, ironically, it's a sin when you deprive it of it's symbolism. Aside from procreation, it is a symbol of unity of the husband in wife. A process they don't share with anyone else other than themselves. Hence when you take it outside of marriage, you use it as a tool for self-pleasure in which either gender can be considered an object. A sort of mentality that should never be considered of anyone or other living thing...

Tell me someone, anyone, who has sex purely for procreation.

People have sex for both procreation and pleasure, you must lead a boring existence if you didn't have sex for pleasure. Sex is meant to be pleasurable.

Originally posted by Makedde
Tell me someone, anyone, who has sex purely for procreation.

People have sex for both procreation and pleasure, you must lead a boring existence if you didn't have sex for pleasure. Sex is meant to be pleasurable. If there was no pleasure in it.....NO ONE WOULD DO IT!!!!!

Originally posted by debbiejo
If there was no pleasure in it.....NO ONE WOULD DO IT!!!!!

True, so it's bull that it's for procreation. Only a Catholic could think that.

No offence if you are a Catholic.

Originally posted by Makedde
Tell me someone, anyone, who has sex purely for procreation.

People have sex for both procreation and pleasure, you must lead a boring existence if you didn't have sex for pleasure. Sex is meant to be pleasurable.

I dont think thats the point he was trying to get across. Pleasure could fall into the cateragory of unity. When you have sex inside marriage then the self pleasure is holy because it is glorifying God. When it is outside marriage it is exulting flesh and nothing more.

Originally posted by Punker69
I dont think thats the point he was trying to get across. Pleasure could fall into the cateragory of unity. When you have sex inside marriage then the self pleasure is holy because it is glorifying God. When it is outside marriage it is exulting flesh and nothing more.


But who in their right minds will wait until they are married to have sex? No one, not unless you have very, very rigid beliefs.

Originally posted by Makedde
Tell me someone, anyone, who has sex purely for procreation.

People have sex for both procreation and pleasure, you must lead a boring existence if you didn't have sex for pleasure. Sex is meant to be pleasurable.

You can have it for the pleasure, just not when your not married

Originally posted by AOR
You can have it for the pleasure, just not when your not married But then it gets really old........

Originally posted by Makedde
But who in their right minds will wait until they are married to have sex? No one, not unless you have very, very rigid beliefs.

For starters I would. And I am very open to basically everything. Everything that is good that is...

Originally posted by debbiejo
But then it gets really old........

What does?

Originally posted by AOR
Sex isn't a sin, ironically, it's a sin when you deprive it of it's symbolism. Aside from procreation, it is a symbol of unity of the husband in wife. A process they don't share with anyone else other than themselves. Hence when you take it outside of marriage, you use it as a tool for self-pleasure in which either gender can be considered an object. A sort of mentality that should never be considered of anyone or other living thing... Sorry but IMO that's drivel, an utterly ridiculous and somewhat insulting generalisation. If that's your mentality then fine, but trying to assert your mentality as that of others is retarded.

When I make love with my girlfriend I don't "use her as a tool" nor does she use me... and I definitely don't consider her "an object". A marriage license doesn't suddenly give sex a special meaning, and there are a crapload of loveless marriages out there, where sex is just a tool for either partner's pleasure.

Originally posted by AOR
For starters I would. And I am very open to basically everything. Everything that is good that is...

Sex is good.

Originally posted by AOR
You can have it for the pleasure, just not when your not married

What if you marry when you are 40 years old, and want kids? By that time, not only are you still a virgin, at 40 years of age, but you are also too old to have children.

It would be very embarrasing to be a virgin at the age of 40, or older.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Sorry but IMO that's drivel, an utterly ridiculous and somewhat insulting generalisation. If that's your mentality then fine, but trying to assert your mentality as that of others is retarded.

When I make love with my girlfriend I don't "use her as a tool" nor does she use me... and I definitely don't consider her "an object". A marriage license doesn't suddenly give sex a special meaning, and there are a crapload of loveless marriages out there, where sex is just a tool for either partner's pleasure. You have sex with your girlfriend????????
shocking

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Sorry but IMO that's drivel, utterly ridiculous and somewhat insulting. If that's your mentality then fine, but trying to assert your mentality as that of others is retarded.

When I make love with my girlfriend I don't "use her as a tool" nor does she use me... and I definitely don't consider her "an object". A marriage license doesn't suddenly give sex a special meaning, and there are a crapload of loveless marriages out there, where sex is just a tool for either partner's pleasure.

Do not put words in my mouth, I was not praising sex inside our outside of marriage. I was simply stating, that when you are free of the responsibilities of careing for a loved one, than you simply view it as an effort to quench that passion, and thus is considerd lust. I am not imposing my views, but simply stating my point of view. It's very much like Punker69 was saying. I say, if you love her so much, that you'd like to have sex with her, marry her than....

Originally posted by Makedde
What if you marry when you are 40 years old, and want kids? By that time, not only are you still a virgin, at 40 years of age, but you are also too old to have children.

It would be very embarrasing to be a virgin at the age of 40, or older.

If you would wait to be 40 years old, than that means you trust in God, in which case you could be 100 years old and God could deliver you a child. Because God can do anything...

Originally posted by debbiejo
You have sex with your girlfriend????????
shocking

OMG and he isn't married? It's a one way ticket to Hell for him, then.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Sex is good.


In which case I don't have a problem with sex, until it is out of marriage, from which case it is not good...

Originally posted by debbiejo
You have sex with your girlfriend????????
shocking We're both 20 years old... it's not that much of a shocker... I know... we're gonna burn in hell... fear

Originally posted by AOR
If you would wait to be 40 years old, than that means you trust in God, in which case you could be 100 years old and God could deliver you a child. Because God can do anything...

God can't make a 100 year old woman pregnant. IVF sometimes doesn't even make 40 year old women pregnant.

It's best to be young mother, you don't want to taking the kids to school when your middle aged.