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It'll be close, but I think Vader takes it.

Feats:

- Took on 8 Jedi at once.

- Defeated an older, more experienced Obi-Wan (Yes, he gave up, but Obi Wan stated in the ANH Novel that he would have defeated Vader if he could have, he couldn't)

- Vader states in the Shadow of the Empire novel that his cyborg self > his Jedi self

- Him being slow was due to the technological limitations of the time. It's true he lost speed, but look at Grievous, also a Cyborg. Vader would be around his speed in the newer movies (unless the Emporer cut Vader's suit's budget LOL)

- He can force choke people from across the Galaxy.

Darth Malak is no pushover as well.

- Punked two Jedi Knights easily

- Learned from Darth Revan

- Has a variety of (GAMEPLAY) Force powers and fancy Lightsaber moves, even though he only used Force Drain and Force Lightning in the cinematics.

So... yeah.

It'll be close, but I think Vader takes it.

I have to disagree.


Feats:

Feats need to be clarified and applicable to the fight or they are moot. This is not an accomplishment battle.


- Took on 8 Jedi at once.

Hm. Source? Specifics?


- Defeated an older, more experienced Obi-Wan (Yes, he gave up, but Obi Wan stated in the ANH Novel that he would have defeated Vader if he could have, he couldn't)

This is ridiculous- killing someone who doesn't put up a fight doesn't mean Vader can take Malak.


- Vader states in the Shadow of the Empire novel that his cyborg self > his Jedi self

And Hitler thought he was an artist. While Darth Vader is definately wiser and physically stronger than young Anakin, his force potential IS crippled, and his mobility suffers as well. He also cannot use or block force lightning, a skill which Malak uses to deadly affect.


- Him being slow was due to the technological limitations of the time. It's true he lost speed, but look at Grievous, also a Cyborg. Vader would be around his speed in the newer movies (unless the Emporer cut Vader's suit's budget LOL)

Baseless speculation. Vader is slow in the movies (The highest point of SW canon) therefore, he is slow. Saying that he isn't slow because Grievous is fast doesn't make sense. And blaming "technological limitations" in the highest point of canon is making excuses for a character who, while cool, isn't godly in combat, period.


- He can force choke people from across the Galaxy.

Across the galaxy, eh? I don't remember that. And anyways, EU canon states that jedi and sith can block Force TK. I doubt Vader is going to just choke Malak to death.


Darth Malak is no pushover as well.

- Punked two Jedi Knights easily

- Learned from Darth Revan

- Has a variety of (GAMEPLAY) Force powers and fancy Lightsaber moves, even though he only used Force Drain and Force Lightning in the cinematics.

So... yeah.

Malak's pretty good. It's hard to say just how good he is at personal combat since we have mostly game play views of him fighting, but his reputation in the Order and during the wars (And the fact that he was head honcho in a Sith organisation where the strong rule) means he must be considerably powerful.

RODV, I think.

"This is ridiculous- killing someone who doesn't put up a fight doesn't mean Vader can take Malak. "

-Obi-Wan was putting up a fight. The ANH novel specifically states that Vader > Obi-Wan. Age isn't that big a factor, considering Dooku, Yoda, Sidious etc. Mace was priming when he was 50.

"Baseless speculation. Vader is slow in the movies (The highest point of SW canon) therefore, he is slow. Saying that he isn't slow because Grievous is fast doesn't make sense. And blaming "technological limitations" in the highest point of canon is making excuses for a character who, while cool, isn't godly in combat, period."

-That's true, it is speculation, but it's not baseless. The "base" in this speculation is Greivous, and his mobility despite the fact that's he's even more Cyborg than Vader. IF the movies were made with improved FXs, I guarantee both Vader and Luke would have fought faster. Take Sidious for example. When in CG, the man's super fast. When he's being choreographed by Ian, he's slower than OT Vader. No one claimed Vader was a combat God, he'd get trounced by many people (Many older force users and some newer ones), but I still think he can beat Malak.


"Across the galaxy, eh? I don't remember that. And anyways, EU canon states that jedi and sith can block Force TK. I doubt Vader is going to just choke Malak to death."

-He force chokes two seperate Admirals from different Starshps in ESB and ROTJ. It won't be INSTA KILL, but it'd be damaging.

Those aren't across a galaxy, those are across the gap between two starships, and might even have been the same starship, but a different room.

RODV, I think.

Haven't read it yet (Waiting for it to come out in paperback), but from the sounds of it the novel's all about making Vader seem more hardass then he was in the OT. I find this vexing, because it makes Vader seem inconsistant to me, but whatever.


-Obi-Wan was putting up a fight. The ANH novel specifically states that Vader > Obi-Wan. Age isn't that big a factor, considering Dooku, Yoda, Sidious etc. Mace was priming when he was 50.

Unfortunately, the movie evidence (Remember again- highest form of canon) is inconclusive as to who is better. Vader did not penetrate Obi-Wan's guard and vice versa. Vader won only when Obi-Wan gave up. This does not constitute skill/victory/uberness on Vader's part. The point is moot.


-That's true, it is speculation, but it's not baseless. The "base" in this speculation is Greivous, and his mobility despite the fact that's he's even more Cyborg than Vader.

Grievous is built differently than Vader, and his mobility is not an option for Vader. They are not comparable any more than Yoda and Mace Windu's jogging speeds are comparable.

IF the movies were made with improved FXs, I guarantee both Vader and Luke would have fought faster.

I doubt this, and you're basing your answer on THIS version of events on a "What-if" version of OTHER events. Again, moot.

Take Sidious for example. When in CG, the man's super fast. When he's being choreographed by Ian, he's slower than OT Vader.

Not the point; SW canon policy says the movies are on top. When you start to dispute the movies, you cannot rely on ANYTHING. You're basically picking apart the foundation of all evidence and changing it to your own preference. Well, that doesn't fly. Either argue within the parameters of the SW EU universe and its levels of canon or don't argue at all. This isn't "What do you think Vader would be like if you took personal liberties with his abilities, appearance, speed and so on."
By this logic I could argue that Malak would be faster than Grievous and he could manipulate black holes by the Force alone, and IF they made a new movie or game about it, this would be the case.

See? Baseless speculation.


No one claimed Vader was a combat God, he'd get trounced by many people (Many older force users and some newer ones), but I still think he can beat Malak.

And I think he can't. While I won't ever say you can't think Vader has this battle, I will point out every time you argue incorrectly or falsely. Your points as to why Vader would win are all logically unsound and invalid as arguments. Hence, you have not proven your case at all.


-He force chokes two seperate Admirals from different Starshps in ESB and ROTJ. It won't be INSTA KILL, but it'd be damaging.

Yes, he force chokes two non-force sensitives. But the point remains (And you did not address it) that Jedi and Sith have the ability to block force telekinesis, which includes Force choke.

Rise of the Dark Lord? Lessee...he takes on five, one of which is a Padawan, another two of which are AgriCorps Jedi.

Oh noes!!! Not teh padawan and the AgriCorps Jedi!!!111

Yeah, that's why people need to always elaborate on their supposedly valid feats. If I would have seen that in the first post, I would have tried not to laugh.

He never takes 8 qualified Jedi there. That would be like me arguing Vader took hundreds of Jedi while he walked through the Jedi Temple. I of course would be omitting the fact that he did have a legion of storm troopers and most of them were younglings.



No, the novelization states that Obi-Wan could not beat Vader. It does not state Vader could beat Obi-Wan or that he was the superior force user.

And you can point out Dooku, Yoda, Sidious, Mace, but we also have a Qui-Gon, who was "past his prime" (in accordance to the TPM novelization and the databank) in TPM at a young 60.



Grievous also doesn't have human anatomy, no force powers, and possibly has a different neurological structure and function based upon him being a different species.

Regardless, it is baseless speculation.



If they had CG, they perhaps would be faster, but the point remains that he's slower than ROTS Anakin, and ROTS Anakin never demonstrates the battle and force prowess of a Malak.



It was never explictly shown as two different starships I believe. And no, it would more likely be blocked than anything else.

You think that Darth *got my hand cut off by Luke 'Louisville Slugger' Skywalker* Vader will beat Darth Malak!?!?

Really lets think about this, Vader has not seriously fought anyone who was a true test of his power in nearly 20 years. His skills would greatly go down. Also, he lost loads of force potential on Mustafar and turned into a robot. He may be physically stronger, but much slower and much less skilled. We also know that he is very weak against force lightning (which Malak can easily use). Finally, from what we see in the OT movies, Vader has never proven himself to be a good fighter.

Vader gets WTFpwned by Malak

Also, as for choking the people on different starships (which, by the way, is not a GALAXY away, but rather several miles. huge difference) he had a visual with both of his victims. For all we know, he needs to SEE them to choke them.

And the choking was non-force senstives, any sith lord worthy of the title can block that. Heck, the jedi are taught from an early age to block TK (which is force choke, the choke is just TK applied to the neck), so Malak could certainly block it

I know this sounds "Noobish," but honestly, one blast of Lighting from Malak and Vader's going to die very quickly.

Ya. 1 swipe of Malak's saber, and Vader is going to die very quickly.

For the record: Vader fights eight Jedi masters in Purge, and when he gets stronger, it's supposed he took on about 20 and walked away...he also did a lot of extermination of the Jedi himself

Vader wield a lightsabre as fast a Grevious!? Get some glasses, 'cos that ain't true. Vader is slow, even George Lucas says that.



George Lucas has never stated that Vader and Sidious are the strongest. Stop lying, fanboy.



And when has Vader displayed powers on par with Yoda? Never, it's a seemingly unique technique. And even then, Lightning is not telekinisis, it doesn't attack the mind, nor does it need to be cast on a living target to work. Vader's suit will be frazzled if Malak attacks him with lightning, end of story.



He's demonstrated powers beyond Vader's dreams. And getting owned by Revan? Please, the fight is described as "epic" and "close". And even then, you are relying on game mechanics which are not canon. And Revan was a complete badass. It stands more in Malak's favour that he was able to stand up to Revan, Vader would get WTFpwned by Revan.




Substantiate. Why does this make him better than Malak who fought on the frontlines of arguably one of the most bloodiest wars in the history of the Star Wars universe?



True, Vader did basically give in to Luke and let him win. And Dooku was either being arrogant, stupid or nonsensical. If he wanted Anakin and Obi-Wan dead, then they wouldn't have left The Invisible Hand alive.

Actually, Vader is frequently portrayed as....very fast. And Anakin did defeat Dooku fair and square, that entire scene was meant to show how far he'd come.

As for Luke, it seems length of training doesn't dictate skill....he kicks a fair bit of ass in SOTE

Vader portrayed as fast? Does this ever show in the movies? No he fights a lot slower then he does in the PT. He's not a fast fighter, he doesn't run around he just stands and attacks that whats we see in the movies and therefor thats what he does.

Anakin did beat Dooku fair and square, but Dooku did not try to kill Anakin or else Anakin would have been dead. If Dooku would have tried his very best Anakin would be dead.

Not like it matters, Vader does not stand a chance against the lightsaber prodigy that is Darth Malak.

When does he ever have a reason to be fast in the movies?

Dooku may've not been fighting to kill, but he was fighting seriously, he realized he'd die if he didn't...and he was fully given license to finish Anakin by Palpatine.

In every fight he is in, he doesn't move fast. We have all seen the way he fights thats how he fights and fighting like that won't make you stand a chance against Malak.

and Dooku was allowed to kill Anakin? In LOE palps ordered Dooku to take care of Obi Wan and then turn him. We see Dooku his fighting style change after Obi Wan is down.

Dooku also has several chances to take down Aankin but instead he talks about the Dark Side and how Anakin should give in to his anger... And for some reason he doesn't use the force to destroy Anakin either..

Originally posted by Lightsnake
When does he ever have a reason to be fast in the movies?

Dooku may've not been fighting to kill, but he was fighting seriously, he realized he'd die if he didn't...and he was fully given license to finish Anakin by Palpatine.

Actually, Vader isn't wicked slow or anything, but he does sacrifice mobility, force potential, and speed for his amazing strength. I'm not saying he's bad, cuz I really don't think that's the case... But I DO think he is a shadow of a Sith Lord, and not a match at all for someone as deadly as Malak.

I wouldn't call him a shadow per se, poor guy's really been getting some bad publicity these days. Vader is exceptionally strong and resilient and his mobility is nothing to scoff at when he actually uses it. Hell, look at his Dark Woman fight.

Ok, this is STAR WARS, I think it's an unwritten rule the villain has to mock the hero to give into his anger and rage. Sith are always stupid that way. And it's also some kind of real that the force in a saber fight's a no no

It is sad that the biggest movie villain of all time is being shoved aside for the video-game characters. But it's not without justification.

Going by the previous posts, and common-sense/logic, Vader does not possess the mobility, speed, power of the Force and overall skill to take out Malak, who, HAS mobility, speed, great power of the Force (compared to Vader anyway) and the skill with a lightsaber.

Roan Shryne? Wookies? Unknown number of Jedi?

And Jango Fett killed Coleman Trebor. OMG, Jango must be > Vader!

This doesn't substantiate anything.

Meanwhile, you have Malak who beat council members, had hundreds/thousands of followers, had the force power to control the Star Forge when multiple masters couldn't, and was able to absorb their life force.

And you still didn't counter the point. One lightning and Vader is screwed.

People are sometimes blind to the fact that Sith Lightning electrocutes machinery (Darth Vader in this thread). If this is lightsaber only match, then I give Malak the edge 7/10

I suppose Force Lightning would do the trick. As would Malak's superior mobility and speed. I guess Vader would only have the size advantage.

Height:
2.02 meters (in armor)

versus

Height:
2 meters

A very small difference, and one ultimately made up by the fact that Malak uses a great lightsaber (Of exceptionally long length) while Vader does not. Malak also has full motion range with his shoulders.

Heh, Malak is very tall...

Slightly taller than Dooku.

Malak, but Vader might have the edge in sabers.

Vader one-shots in the Force and stomps in sabers

Vader steamrolls him

Originally posted by Azronger
Vader one-shots in the Force and stomps in sabers

Vader close Fight.