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I'm making this thread simply to prove a point... as I have heard, from the unwritten laws of the sith, they always have the rule of two... master and apprentice... and when the apprentice becomes stronger than the master, then he succeeds him and the apprentice takes the masters place... If this is true, then that means the sith get progressively stronger, making Sidious the strongest sith ever... I think thats pretty solid evidence, don't you?

I think that's pretty ridiculous. Sidious himself killed his master Plageus before he ever knew all his techniques. Also, Maul, Vader, and Dooku were all more or less inferior to Sidious, which disrupts that theory entirely.

Originally posted by Darth Magnevus
I'm making this thread simply to prove a point... as I have heard, from the unwritten laws of the sith, they always have the rule of two... master and apprentice... and when the apprentice becomes stronger than the master, then he succeeds him and the apprentice takes the masters place... If this is true, then that means the sith get progressively stronger, making Sidious the strongest sith ever... I think thats pretty solid evidence, don't you? 1 cowardly, but more powerful Sith, would disrupt this theory.

hmmmm... true... but they were never ment to succeed him... and that is off the point... I'm talking about all the sith before Sidious

Originally posted by Darth Magnevus
hmmmm... true... but they were never ment to succeed him... and that is off the point... I'm talking about all the sith before Sidious
But when the knew Sith order was formed, then that offset alot of things, and there were time periods without living sith.

Except that the Ancient Sith and individuals like Freedon and Exar would pwn even DE Sidious.

However, I'm damn certain DE Sidious would beat Revan. Revan's not quite up there.

That still doesn't follow. Ragnos was greater than Sadow or Ludo, his heirs. Freedan Nadd lorded over Kun until Kun had an amulet. And keep in mind this is a spirit. Kun's default apprentice was Ulic, but Ulic was a ***** compared to Exar Kun. Malak was never greater than Revan, even though he tried to usurp power. Sith are meant to take power when they can, but this doesn't mean that they are neccessarily more powerful.

Originally posted by DE Calvin
But when the knew Sith order was formed, then that offset alot of things, and there were time periods without living sith.
you have a point... that would pretty much destroy that theory for any pre-new sith order sith... but that would still mean that Sidous would be stronger than the sith in his line correct?

Freedon Nadd didn't "lord" over Kun, he helped him become DLOTS to a certain extent.

Originally posted by DE Calvin
Freedon Nadd didn't "lord" over Kun, he helped him become DLOTS to a certain extent.

He did 'lord' over Kun for quite some time. He pretty much toyed with Kun's life and made Kun embrace the darkside. I consider that 'lording'. He wasn't helping just to be an altruistic dark sider.

it is interesting where one question can lead a debate isn't it?

That's the nature of the game, yes.

He was trying to help Kun, because he didn't want the Sith to die.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
That's the nature of the game, yes.
and what a fun game it is... intellectually stimulating as well...

But he was doing it selfishly. And he was manipulating Kun, ergo, he was lording over him.

Originally posted by DE Calvin
Freedon Nadd didn't "lord" over Kun, he helped him become DLOTS to a certain extent.

He did that so he could get a new body. Granted, he lorded over an Exar who hadn't yet embraced the dark side and was nowhere near realizing his full potential, but he was still very impressive. Also, he himself says that a body would make him far more powerful. I'm not quite sure who would win out of a versus between Nadd and Exar, but I won't argue for either given the evidence.

Originally posted by Darth Magnevus
I'm making this thread simply to prove a point... as I have heard, from the unwritten laws of the sith, they always have the rule of two... master and apprentice... and when the apprentice becomes stronger than the master, then he succeeds him and the apprentice takes the masters place... If this is true, then that means the sith get progressively stronger, making Sidious the strongest sith ever... I think thats pretty solid evidence, don't you?

Erm, no. You're saying that the newer the Sith lord the better? Then I suppose you can justify the ersatz fact that Sidious could beat Marka Ragnos?

Since Sidious only followed the rule of two set down by Bane and his line, that means Sidious only has the potential to be more powerful than these guys, not the Ancients, not Nadd, Kun, or Revan. Bane's buddies only.

And like Janus said, Sidious killed Plagueis when he still didn't know all of his master's powers. He saw an oppurtunity for power, and took it.

He killed him in his sleep too.

yes... as I had proved to me in an earlyer post...

Yeah. The whole "zOMG I'll murder my master when the first opportunity arrises!" actually weakens the Sith line. It'd be the equivalent of lieutenants butchering generals when they sleep just so they can become generals in turn. Not exactly a great idea for keeping a line strong.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Yeah. The whole "zOMG I'll murder my master when the first opportunity arrises!" actually weakens the Sith line. It'd be the equivalent of lieutenants butchering generals when they sleep just so they can become generals in turn. Not exactly a great idea for keeping a line strong.

You're right, that's the biggest pitfall of Bane's line. Without outside influence, the apprentice will kill the master at first opportunity so they could become the master.

At least with the Ancient Sith Empire, it was expected you challenge them to a duel, and any sneaking around would have to be smart enough to get past the noses of hundreds of other sith.

Exactly. Not to mention the Sith lived for centuries.

This would be a good match but I believe Revan would take it simply because he was the best of the best during the time when the Jedi were at their peak and at war. Sidious was second to Mace Windu and Yoda in regards to light saber combat, and possibly second to only Yoda in force powers.. Don't get me wrong he was a genius but this is a versus forum and Sidious would get eaten alive by Revan.

And you're wrong. DE Sidious (which is Sidious at his peak) would curbstomp Revan. Revan really isn't that impressive when taken into context with Force users of other times.

Revan isn't impressive with the force users of that time? Revan at that time is the best of the best. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a stalemate but in no way do I think DE Sidious would curbstomp Revan.

Best of the best? Not at all. In fact, there's no canonical evidence that Revan is the best of his time, only that he was very powerful.

There is no evidence that doesn't support that he isn't the best.. In fact in the LS ending it's pretty obvious that he is the best of his era

LOL!

Yes, there's no evidence to support a negative conclusion. Sure.

Here's a tip: You have to prove the positive. Ergo, until you give us canonical proof that Revan is the best Force user of his time, he isn't.

Man I didn't know people were this devoted to star wars versus thread.. I must say I wasn't prepared, but I'll give you an argument..

You weren't prepared, but you posted anyway? Alright...