Darth Revan Vs Master Vrook, Master Kavar, and Master Zez-Kai

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Commander K
In Jedi Enclave.

Darth_Glentract
The three Jedi probably take this. Vrook has a ton of experince and will fight smart, as he probably fought in the Great Sith War. Kavar has knowledge of fighting with two blades, so Revan loses that advantage against Kavar. Zez-Kai....well...lightsaber-fodder maybe? He never seemed to strong to me, more of a wisdom type guy.

That's pretty much all the proof there is, unfortunately.

zephiel7
Revan.

If Kreia could do it, why not Revan too?

Dark Aristokrat
Cuz Revan has never been shown to use uber force drain?

Veneficus
I already made this thread somewhere way back.

Fishy
And its all some huge speculation...

Revan has the power to beat them all one by one, perhaps even all of them together, he's obviously able to fight multiple enemy's at once. (When his ship is attacked)

his pre-cog would be a great help here, and he is probably superior in the force to them all... But taking them all at once, well thats just damn hard to do. I don't know if he could pull it off or not.

IKC
Christ almighty. Okay, nevermind he was probably in his early twenties and is not shown anywhere on panel during any important Sith War events. What good is this war experience going to do him when all he'd have experience in fighting is against Tetan and Mandalorian fighters, not other Force users?

It wasn't a "great" war. It was simply The Sith War. And it wasn't much of a war.

Numan
The Exile pulled it off so it is likely Revan would be able to do the same as he is superior to The Exile.

Fishy
Originally posted by Numan
The Exile pulled it off so it is likely Revan would be able to do the same as he is superior to The Exile.

Not if the Exile is LS.

Master Naresh
I'm leaning towards the masters , they have alot of experience and if they combine their skillins in combo attacks revan would have no chance but if revan lets say stun or statis two out of them and took out one then the other etc one by one they would fall together revan loses

kamikz
Originally posted by Fishy
And its all some huge speculation...

Revan has the power to beat them all one by one, perhaps even all of them together, he's obviously able to fight multiple enemy's at once. (When his ship is attacked)

his pre-cog would be a great help here, and he is probably superior in the force to them all... But taking them all at once, well thats just damn hard to do. I don't know if he could pull it off or not.

Do you mean in the beginning, when he is a Sith Lord and the jedi attacked? He never fought them, he got blasted by Malak.

Fishy
I know he got blasted by Malak, but... well this is just a theory, but he most likely wanted to get them there and then kill them all except for Bastila of course.

Even so he still fought in the Mandelorian wars and in the Jedi Civil war and in Kotor he also fought multiple opponents, it is very extremely unlikely that he never fought more then one person at the same time.

kamikz
Yeah I know, just wanted to point that out. evil face

Anyway, I don't know, they are pretty good, but since Kreia could easily hold the jedi at bay even before she used her power (and since Revan's force powers should be pretty close to Kreia's) he could probably do the same.

Fishy
Possibly, of course there is no evidence for that.

Personally i'm guessing he would pull it off, I have no evidence however.

Numan
Just look at the amount of dark jedi he defeated in the Star Forge.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Numan
Just look at the amount of dark jedi he defeated in the Star Forge.

Gameplay mechanics. Juhani or HK could have killed them all smile .

Fishy
Storywise neither one of those would have stood a chance.

Darth Traya
Really? I could have made Juhani more powerful than Revan according to the gameplay stats...

Fishy
On the unknown world the most powerful of the Sith order had gathered or at least Sith Masters. None of the Jedi with you would have stood a chance, not Jolee or Juhani. Then you go to the Star Forge, without or without bastila it matters not. According to Malak there were none in the order that could survive those droids.

Juhani, Jolee, Bastila are not the most powerful of the order thats for sure, the rest of the team aren't even force sensitive. The only one that would have stood a chance storywise to go through the Star Forge is Revan.

Gameplay Revan can be the weakest character in the party and thats why we don't allow gameplay arguments.

Faunus
This could actually go either way.

In Traya's case, I didn't get the impression that the Jedi Masters were ready at all. One moment, they're preparing to punish the Exile, the next, there's a Dark Lady sucking the Force from them. This doesn't mean that the end result may necessarily have been different had they been prepared, but it's something to consider.

Fishy
Originally posted by Faunus
This could actually go either way.

In Traya's case, I didn't get the impression that the Jedi Masters were ready at all. One moment, they're preparing to punish the Exile, the next, there's a Dark Lady sucking the Force from them. This doesn't mean that the end result may necessarily have been different had they been prepared, but it's something to consider.

Well the end result likely wouldn't have been different because the technique has no defence against it.

Darth_Glentract
Just because Kreia didn't know of any defense didn't mean there was none. Any Sith technique has to have a defense against it or no DLOS would last more then a few minutes.

Dark Aristokrat
Don't get started on that old argument again. And the jedi masters should have been ready for SOMETHING. Apparently their defense wasn't good enough.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Don't get started on that old argument again. And the jedi masters should have been ready for SOMETHING. Apparently their defense wasn't good enough.

Me or Faunus?

Dark Aristokrat
I was just saying in general... If those jedi masters weren't prepared, that's just pathetic.

Darth_Glentract
What about the idea that it has some sort of defense? Just because Kreia didn't know of it doesn't mean that it for sure didn't exist. Also note that Jacen during Traitor(weak at this point) survived losing the force. Also note that if there really was no defence from it, why was every DLOS pwned five minutes after being crowned?

Veneficus
Now I know how Kreia mentions in the movie where she gets pwned by Sion that there are some abilities in the Force in which their is now defense...but how do you know she was refering to her power that wasted the Jedi Masters?

Dark Aristokrat
I imagine there IS a defense, but whether or not they knew of it and whether or not it would work against her is up for debate.

Borbarad
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
What about the idea that it has some sort of defense? Just because Kreia didn't know of it doesn't mean that it for sure didn't exist. Also note that Jacen during Traitor(weak at this point) survived losing the force. Also note that if there really was no defence from it, why was every DLOS pwned five minutes after being crowned?

There seems to be defence against "getting stripped from the force" since Odan Urr tried to use exactly this against Exar Kun and Exar didn't care about it but killed Odan instead. So there is a defence and there is even the possibility that Jedi would know about it.

But still...the 3 Masters here ? Kreia talked to them and talked to them and they did nothing...just to get pwned with one handmovement from Kreia. If they knew some defence they'd better used it. But even this doesn't matter since Revan has never displayed a power similar to Kreia's.

Back to the topic: I think the Jedi would win here. Kavar thought himself to be able to kill Malak since he went and tried it and although he "barely escaped alive" we don't know the circumstances of this fight but it's possible that Kavar cut Malak's jaw off (since it's stated that it was done by a Jedi). Well...at least Kavar thought he could deal with Malak so he can't be leagues away from him. So you have somebody that is close to Malak, Vrook who has possibly experienced Exar Kun and Ulic Quel-Droma alive (judging by his age) and seems to be quite powerful and Zez-Kai, who appears to be a little bit weak (telling the Exile that the Exile is the better Jedi) but I guess he still knows to handle his lightsaber.

So...unless Revan pulls a Kreia I don't see him winning this. One by one he would take them for sure but all at once...I don't think so.

Darth_Glentract
Nai, being the better Jedi doesn't necessarily mean the Exile was a better fighter. To a Jedi, being a better talker would actually be better, since when the Jedi were diplomats primariy(PT times) it was the Golden Age for the Jedi since they didn't have to fight much.

Fishy
Being stripped from the force and having the force removed from your body are two different things.

Glentract there could very well be no defense against that technique becuase only Nihilus and the Exile really controlled it, those two created the technique. If Kreia was able to do it on her own later on she would still have learned it through Nihilus and the Exile. This is made very clear in Kotor II. The very existance of those two is strange and never heard of before or again, to think there would be a defense for a technique that couldn't even really exist and has never existed before is just strange. Not like it matters, Revan wouldn't even know the technique, maybe know off it, but he could never have learned it.

Nai, Kavar challenging Malak means nothing really we know he wasn't able to win in what is very likely a fair fight or a fight in favour of Kavar, and its also very unlikely that Kavar cut of Malak his jaw, if anybody it would have been Revan that cut of Malak his jaw. Remember Revan was still a Jedi until he returned at the head of an invasion fleet and became the Dark Lord of the Sith.

Dark Aristokrat
Actually, in Ulic's case he still had the force, he was just barred from feeling it properly. But in the case of what Traya, the Exile, and Nihilus does is literally rip the Force from one's body. And since the force is tied to life, they die. Simple.



Actually, this is debatable. While it's evident that Nihilus mastered the technique due to his unusual nature, there is no instance of him creating it. If anything, Kreia calls it an ancient Sith technique, that he is in personification, the pinnacle of.



No, it isn't made clear in KOTOR II cuz you're wrong. Kreia never says she learned the technique through either of them. Indeed, the Exile is confused when he/she first uses it whereas Kreia is guiding them through the proper use of it.

the_hairy_ass

Dark Aristokrat
Originally posted by the_hairy_ass


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7894/bruceleepwned7dn.gif

WrathfulDwarf
haha!! My old PWNED message for the trolls. That bring back memories. big grin

Dark Aristokrat
Thanks for the prompt action, dude.

Ogami Itto
Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7894/bruceleepwned7dn.gif



eek! Bruce Lee PWNS Hairy Ass and Bob Wall who is one hairy ass mofo!!!!!!!!!

WrathfulDwarf
Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Thanks for the prompt action, dude.

You're welcome! batman

And thank you for helping us by reporting idiot trolls like that guy.


Now let's move on and keep the thread on topic. smile

Dark Aristokrat
*Upstanding KMCitizen*

I had to. That was just vile.

Fishy
Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Actually, in Ulic's case he still had the force, he was just barred from feeling it properly. But in the case of what Traya, the Exile, and Nihilus does is literally rip the Force from one's body. And since the force is tied to life, they die. Simple.

Thats what I said...



When has she ever described it as an ancient technique anybody ever used before? Even if she did, nobody could have used it like Nihilus if so then surely they would be dead.



Yes, but like with the assassins and Sion they draw the force from people around them just like Nihilus and the Exile do, they can do this however because Nihilus drained them "They use the technique to fill the hollow places where the force used to be"

Kreia also says the technique can not be learned in anyway shape or form. So it had to be a gift of some sort that somehow she got control off. Now its possible she could do it her entire life for some strange reason when others could not. Which is strange because the Jedi Council said that they had never felt anything even like the Exile before. Ever. And they knew Kreia. However its far more likely that whatever created Nihilus and the Exile, two anomoly's above believe also created this with her, or that Nihilus created this very thing in her. As he did drain the force from her (but let her live) in the cut scene were she is knocked out.

zephiel7
If Kreia learned that ancient (instantkill) Sith technique at Malachor 5, then surely Revan who has done even more research in his reign as the dark lord would have learned it to.

I think Revan would defeat Vrook, Zez Kai, and Kavar.

Fishy
Originally posted by zephiel7
If Kreia learned that ancient (instantkill) Sith technique at Malachor 5, then surely Revan who has done even more research in his reign as the dark lord would have learned it to.

I think Revan would defeat Vrook, Zez Kai, and Kavar.

Revan at most studied Malachor for 2 years, 2 years in which he found the Star Forge became Dark Lord started a war against the Republic in which he was the most important general and pretty much destroyed the Republic.

Kreia on the other hand had somewhat around 5 years of time to study Malachor constantly as she had nothing better to do. Now who is going to win the knowledge fight there?

Besides as I already said it is very unlikely the technique could have been learned.

zephiel7
Revan at most studied Malachor for 2 years, 2 years in which he found the Star Forge

How do you know that?

Revan is pretty much the strongest character in the KOTOR universe. He has been to Malachor like Kreia, and has experienced the darkside to the extent that Kreia did. Kreia just followed in Revan's footsteps. As did Malak, Sion, and Nihilus.

Fishy
How do I know that? Because its been 5 years since the events of Kotor in Kotor II, and at least 8 years since the end of the Mandelorian wars. That gives Kreia at most 8 years, possibly less.

Revan could have studied Malachor from the start of his reign as Dark Lord, not before because he wasn't dark then and the planet was obviously in an area of space where they were still fighting meaning he couldn't have really been there safely before. After the battle of Malachor revan spend half a year away in unknown space and 1.5 years fighting against the Republic, then he got ambushed lost his memorry. Possibly became the dark lord again, had his mind restored 6 months later and left.

Now if we would assume that Revan spend all that time on Malachor V, that would still give him 6 months, plus 1.5 years plus another 6 months as the new Dark Lord. Thats 2.5 years, 0.5 year more then I assumed at first.

However this would mean that Kreia would have not have gone to Malachor until some time after Revan got his mind back. But that would still leave here anywhere between 4.5 and 8 years to study Malachor.

Even at the very least it would be more then Revan at most. Which is an impossible number for Revan because we know he spend time at other places, he was a general and a warlord after all. He trained some assassins himself, and he had to find the Star Forge empower it and use it to build a huge ass fleet, no way he could have done all of that and still have spend all of his time on Malachor V.

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