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Well, A lot of people seem to get off on bashing pot cause it is illegal and ''harmful''-

So, Let's talk about the number 1 killer in my country- Cigarette's



They cause cancer, Take up rooms in the hospital, and generally are the worst thing besides Heroin,that anyone can be addicted too Not to mention all the other negative things about it.

Marijuana does not do any of that, So if the Government are so up there ass about not making pot legal, (which is funny, how a ''plant'' can even BE illegal'' How do the Government explain, Why they have not made Cigarette's illegal.

Cigarettes are bad for you.

is it comprehensible.....

In a perfect world, they would be, since they harm not only the smoker but those around him.

In the real world, we must learn from our mistakes and not have a repeat of the Prohibition fiasco.

Most of the people I speak too say they don't want to smoke, but find it hard to stop, When I ask them why and when they started its usualy around 14 and cause it was the cool thing todo...

I would like the age restriction raised too 18-20... I don't think anyone of that age would start... and its easier to tell if someone is 18 rather then 16...

it is 18 in the us.

whoa, it's 16 in britian? that's crazy. and you're wrong about one thing. They would start, b/c they do over here.

is it comprehensible.....

No they shouldn't Be, i don't smoke, But the government can control them this way.

I say the jack the price up to 30$ a pack.

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
it is 18 in the us.

whoa, it's 16 in britian? that's crazy. and you're wrong about one thing. They would start, b/c they do over here.

is it comprehensible.....

yer I figured some might.. thats why I said 20... it would be impossible to rule it out completely... The cig companies would make it a nightmare...

Why do people what to control what others do to themselves. They have no right to take that responsibility away from an individual.

This is the type of thinking that causes individuals to believe they should be provided for and cared for by a government.

It's an example of people losing faith in freedom.

no.. but these same individuals cost us an arm and a leg in medical bills as there "hobby" lands them in hospital.. and its not like its 1 or 2... nearly all smokers will get critically sick...
And while there doing it there killing others around them... and the others 9 time out of 10 don't get the opportunity to avoid the smoker.. they have to put up with passive smoking...

would you like the choice of injecting yourself with aids?? or being aloud to walk in the middle of roads???

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
no.. but these same individuals cost us an arm and a leg in medical bills as there "hobby" lands them in hospital..
I see your your point. This logic requires that we control your diet to keep you healthy. Forced exercise. Also your activities must be restricted in accordance with established risk factors to avoid costs of accidents.


If this situation exists it does beg corrective action. I haven't been exposed to this type of problem in many years. I do remember years ago people smoking in elevators.


Yes to the injection, but if you use roads you should follow the rules, so no to that one, unless it's your own road.

Originally posted by K.Diddy
Well, A lot of people seem to get off on bashing pot cause it is illegal and ''harmful''-

So, Let's talk about the number 1 killer in my country- Cigarette's



They cause cancer, Take up rooms in the hospital, and generally are the worst thing besides Heroin,that anyone can be addicted too Not to mention all the other negative things about it.

Marijuana does not do any of that, So if the Government are so up there ass about not making pot legal, (which is funny, how a ''plant'' can even BE illegal'' How do the Government explain, Why they have not made Cigarette's illegal.
Perhaps.

It is also an inelastic good, so you can tax the hell out of it and make monies.

I am of the opinion that ciggarettes should be banned. When a smoker gets lung cancer, who pays for his/her chemotherapy? The taxpayer. Yes, we pay for other chemotherapy, but lung cancer can be prevented. Why should I have to pay for someone to have chemo when they could have prevented the situation?

There is nothing I hate more than walking down the street and seeing ciggie butts all over the ground, no one puts them in a bin.

I can't go to the pub because even in the non smoking areas, smoke drifts over from the smoking areas and you go home smelling like an ashtray.

Some people are sensitive to smoke. Should they have to lock themselves inside and not venture out for fear of having an asthma attack? Of course not.

Then there is the issue of passive smoking. All smokers, when you think about it, are killers. Their second hand smoke contributes to the deaths of thousand of people every year by passive smoking. Why should smokers is allowed to endager their lives, and the lives of non smokers? Smokers don't have a right to place my life in jepardy, which is what they are doing. Second hand smoke kills. I don't want to find out I have lung cancer from passive smoking. What do I do? Who can I sue?

These people who smoke should pay for their own chemo if they happen to get cancer, it's only fair. They should also be last priority on the transplant list. With organ donations as low as they are, we don't need to be giving healthy organs to a smoker who will only start smoking again once they leave hospital.

The Government will never make smoking illegal, they collect to much revenue. All they do is raise the prices each year and hope that will make people think twice about buying their smokes.

Smoking is a form of suicide. Every ciggarette is killing you. Why send yourself to an early grave? Why endanger the lives of non smokers? You don't have that right.

My right to remain healthy far outweighs your right to pollute your body, but it appears that smokers have more rights than I.

Originally posted by K.Diddy
Well, A lot of people seem to get off on bashing pot cause it is illegal and ''harmful''-

So, Let's talk about the number 1 killer in my country- Cigarette's



They cause cancer, Take up rooms in the hospital, and generally are the worst thing besides Heroin,that anyone can be addicted too Not to mention all the other negative things about it.

Marijuana does not do any of that, So if the Government are so up there ass about not making pot legal, (which is funny, how a ''plant'' can even BE illegal'' How do the Government explain, Why they have not made Cigarette's illegal.

No, the reality of the situation is that certain things are illegal for only finacial reasons. Despite cigarettes being deadly, teh governemnt has reaped handsomely off of them for years! When the government turned around and started allowing law suits agains the tobacco industry, that was a reach around, fist-f*ck of enormous proportions! They like to pretend that all suits won by the plaintiffs were because of the lack of warning labels. But that is no longer the case. The US government allowed, promoted and subsidized cigarettes for YEARS! And, now, the industries that lobbied for that are reaping the benefits.

How many people here have stood over a camp fire and inhaled, and didn't know that cigarette smoke was bad for you? But you can't really blame them, they trusted their government.

As for taxing, the tax increases wouldn't be so miniscule if the governemtn weren't STILL making huge amounts of money off the production of cigarettes.

**** the goverment

Nope. Absolutely not X 1,000.

The Government has the right to tax demerit (i.e. unhealthy) goods in order to fund the costs associated with the public using them. Assuming the Government is funding the health system in any example country, of course.

The prosecutions against tobacco companies suceeded because proof of conspiracy was found.

But Gregory is right. Ban cigarettes and you will simply create a much larger problerm.

I know it is painful to admit this in a modern world where people make certain assumptipns about laws... but it actually couldn't be effectively done.

Originally posted by ImOne
Why do people what to control what others do to themselves. They have no right to take that responsibility away from an individual.


But why are people able to smoke and place other lives in jepardy, through passive smoking? That is hardly fair at all.

If you smoke and get lung cancer, you shouldn't expect anyone to save you. Why should doctors waste their time and energy trying to cure someone of a cancer they could have prevented, if they were not so ignorant?

Originally posted by K.Diddy
Well, A lot of people seem to get off on bashing pot cause it is illegal and ''harmful''-

So, Let's talk about the number 1 killer in my country- Cigarette's



They cause cancer, Take up rooms in the hospital, and generally are the worst thing besides Heroin,that anyone can be addicted too Not to mention all the other negative things about it.

Marijuana does not do any of that, So if the Government are so up there ass about not making pot legal, (which is funny, how a ''plant'' can even BE illegal'' How do the Government explain, Why they have not made Cigarette's illegal.

Cigarettes, unlike Marijuana, cocain, heroin, etc, does not drug you, or alter your state of consciousness. Nicotine is the exact opposite of a drug, it does not impair your brain's sober ability, but enhances it. When a person is taking drugs, he/she cannot perform professionally. Cigarettes don't do that.

Someone does not know what a drug is (Hint: It's you).

Originally posted by Wonderer
Cigarettes, unlike Marijuana, cocain, heroin, etc, does not drug you, or alter your state of consciousness. Nicotine is the exact opposite of a drug, it does not impair your brain's sober ability, but enhances it. When a person is taking drugs, he/she cannot perform professionally. Cigarettes don't do that.

yes they do. if i'm deprived of nicotine i go apeshit. no way am i useful in the workplace without it. thats addiction. the only thing it would 'enhance' is irrationalilt, anxiety, and rage.

Originally posted by Gregory
Someone does not know what a drug is (Hint: It's you).

Capt. Fantastic struck the bullseye a page or 2 back. The income gained by the taxes on tobacco (and alcohol as well) outbalance all negative effects of these products financially, at least in the view of the governments who collect these taxes.
The use of alcohol and tobacco has been accepted for centuries, it only became a matter of discussion as we have relatively recently discovered that they are a menace to our health.
And for the tax-collectors, I believe they would be happy to legalise cocaine, heroine and all that just to make money out of controlled trading if it wasn't for the disrespect and fear the common public has towards those drugs.

Originally posted by PVS
yes they do. if i'm deprived of nicotine i go apeshit. no way am i useful in the workplace without it. thats addiction. the only thing it would 'enhance' is irrationalilt, anxiety, and rage.

I smoke too, homes. If it was made illegal, I'd probably be a moonshiner or a bootlegger of tobacco.

Originally posted by Koala MeatPie
I say the jack the price up to 30$ a pack.

You can kiss my rear with that kind of logic, we smokers are already taxed up the wahzoo.

Tax friggen liquor the next time.

Cigarettes should be banned. Anyone watch Anti-Cigarette commericals?

I hate tobacco however they shouldn't outlaw it thats stupid and well its stupid thats that!

Originally posted by Commander K
Cigarettes should be banned. Anyone watch Anti-Cigarette commericals?

I do, it boggles my mind how anyone could watch those commercials, and continue to smoke.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
.....up the wahzoo.


Isnt that a porn movie ?

No doubt that cigaretts are bad for your health. So is pot.
Cig's are bad for your body, pot is bad for your brain.
It would be a good thing to get rid of them both, but that will never happen. Cigarettes harm you in the long run, pot is much quicker.
I would freak if I was just about to go under for sugery and noticed the surgen was high on pot. But if he was a cigarette smoker I wouldn't feel a cigaratte would make my surgery more risky.

If you ban smoking.

Then ban alchohol, it creates violence, kills people, starts liver cancer and other diseases.
Ban cars. It kills people all the time. It endangers other people without thier consent either. It cost money to fix roads, and it cause major pollution that endangers everbody in this world. It also causes wars in Iraq ( or not whatever why your thinking).
Ban anything that might cost the gov't money to fix, or bad for the body.

I do agree banning smoking in public places and anywhere aside from the person's house or outside ( im sorry but you cant really get second hand smoke from somebody walking by you with a "butt" in thier hand), but an all out ban, wont ever happen.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
You can kiss my rear with that kind of logic, we smokers are already taxed up the wahzoo.

Tax friggen liquor the next time.
Haha, here cigarettes are extremely cheap, even the imported ones and obviously no tax.
Kent Lights, which are the one I usually smoke are somewhere around 1 dollar US.

Originally posted by GCG
Isnt that a porn movie ?

I say we should make stray apostrophes illegal.

I say no. But, there should be certain areas where you can only smoke. Also, if you're about to smoke you should always ask anyone around you, if there is anyone around you, if it will bother them.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I say we should make stray apostrophes illegal.

Originally posted by K.Diddy
Well, A lot of people seem to get off on bashing pot cause it is illegal and ''harmful''-

So, Let's talk about the number 1 killer in my country- Cigarette's



They cause cancer, Take up rooms in the hospital, and generally are the worst thing besides Heroin,that anyone can be addicted too Not to mention all the other negative things about it.

Marijuana does not do any of that, So if the Government are so up there ass about not making pot legal, (which is funny, how a ''plant'' can even BE illegal'' How do the Government explain, Why they have not made Cigarette's illegal.
Marijuana contains three times more tar than cigarettes do.

I don't think it should.

I am a smoker. I'm actually trying to quit, but it's stupid to have something like that illegal.

What's next? Make Alcohol illegal?

Does anyone chew tobacco?

I use to when I was 15-17

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Does anyone chew tobacco?

I dipped for 2 to 3 years however I stopped and yuck now it makes me ill...................

They should stay legal as long as the money collected by the tax MORE than pays off the medical, social, and other costs of people directly and second-handedly affected by smoking.

Originally posted by MC Mike
They should stay legal as long as the money collected by the tax MORE than pays off the medical, social, and other costs of people directly and second-handedly affected by smoking.


LOL well then better ban them now cuz they don't

However banning tobacco products at this point is stupid and useless. Also I have never seen any medical studies or clinical or anywhere that shows secondhand smoke causing medical difficulties.

I don't smoke I dislike the smell however I feel as though banning cigarettes is wrong...........................now creating cessation programs and such good.

Nope, they should not be banned. Every individual has the right to make a decision if they are going to smoke.

There isn't a law where it says a company may not sell a harmful product - there is however a law which says that companies may not sell a harmfull product if the consumer is not informed.

Consumers are informed on every pack of tobacco or cigarettes - thus tobacco copmanies are technically doing nothing wrong.

Government will never allow ban of cigarettes, because the revenue they bring in is immense and it unfortunately ouweighs the human cost.

The advertisment on cigarettes has been banned since May 2004, yet the sale of cigarettes is growing still...

True, lil b.

Until recently, they weren't allowed to have TV ads for hard liquor. Let me think back to college...nope, I don't think sales of hard liquor suffered because of the lack of television spots.

Illegal, no. Banned in certain places? Sure... in ireland we have a smoking ban in all public places where anyone works (bars, restaurants and so on), and going out is definately easier on my lungs...

One thing i cant stand is ignorance. If you smoke and accept that it is harmful, then fine, do as you like, but the people who assume just because its legal that it isnt harmful, well, frankly, they're idiots...

Originally posted by pr1983
Illegal, no. Banned in certain places? Sure... in ireland we have a smoking ban in all public places where anyone works (bars, restaurants and so on), and going out is definately easier on my lungs...

One thing i cant stand is ignorance. If you smoke and accept that it is harmful, then fine, do as you like, but the people who assume just because its legal that it isnt harmful, well, frankly, they're idiots...

i agree. people can drink a bottle of poison as well. the reason drinking poison isn't banned though is because drinking poison only affects that person. and if they want to take the risk, that's fine. not too smart, imo, but fine.

secondhand smoke however affects others. it's more the . . . rudeness of it that bothers me. a smoker dictates to others what another is breathing. and what they are breathing is hazardous.

as for never having seen studies on the hazards of secondhand smoke: methinks one hasn't looked too hard . . .

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

uh yeah the clinical studies and the process they have proven results with most of that stuff is drivvle.

the EPA expounds drivel?

Well my lungs would disagree... i got lung cancer from my mothers smoking... i've never touched a cigarette in my life... have asthma too, which doesnt help...

Originally posted by leonidas


the EPA expounds drivel?


Yes yes it does when there isn't clinical studies and things that show me the controls and how the experiment was done.

where do you think they get their info, if not from clinical tests?

Originally posted by leonidas
where do you think they get their info, if not from clinical tests?

yeah but I can do "clinical" tests and unless the controls and variables are set up in a strict fashion its all BS and typically thats what they boil down to BS to pump people up.

I don't think it should be made illegal.

But in Canada, it should be that smokers should have to give up their free health care benefits, to treat anything that is remotely smoking related, as they are making a conscious decision that is burdening the system.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
I don't think it should be made illegal.

But in Canada, it should be that smokers should have to give up their free health care benefits, to treat anything that is remotely smoking related, as they are making a conscious decision that is burdening the system.

that's brilliant!

have you heard of the 'fat tax' proposal? it was mentioned last year some time. it was something similar -- can't recall all the details -- but the bulk of the idea was simple -- obesity was a huge drain on the health care system and it was a proposal would help off-set the cost of taking care of overweight people who were seen as a similar drain on health care resources.

obesity and smoking (and complications that arise from these things) are the 2 largest drains on health care systems in canada and probably in the US as well.

(someone is gonna be po'd at us k-dog . . .)

The problem with that logic is that the extension of it is that those who play football have to foot the bill for fractures.

Unfortunately, the principle of a social health care system is that everybody gets treatment regardless of how they live their lives. Being choosy about who you treat based on how they got ill or injured is breaking away from that vital principle.

If they ban smoking then who is going to pay al the tax which would be missing? I hope other people keep smoking, paying tax instead of me. Ok they tend to die in nasty way, well someones got to. rather them that me.

Originally posted by MC Mike
They should stay legal as long as the money collected by the tax MORE than pays off the medical, social, and other costs of people directly and second-handedly affected by smoking.

I think you may be on to something there Mike.

Cigarettes are very bad and addictive..........done now.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
The problem with that logic is that the extension of it is that those who play football have to foot the bill for fractures.

Unfortunately, the principle of a social health care system is that everybody gets treatment regardless of how they live their lives. Being choosy about who you treat based on how they got ill or injured is breaking away from that vital principle.


Yup in nonsocialized healthcare it would be similar to adverse selection....................and when that happens you cannot truly have a social health system.

If you're gonna smoke then your health care payments should be higher.........Just as if you have a healthy life style, it should be lowered.

Like vegetarians do....

smokers fo pay higher premiums at least in the USA

Originally posted by debbiejo
If you're gonna smoke then your health care payments should be higher.........Just as if you have a healthy life style, it should be lowered.

Like vegetarians do.... Being vegetarian does not mean you are healthy and infact imo can mean the opposite. Vegetarians don't get the proteins and iron you're body needs and some people can become very ill due to lack of such things. You're body needs a balanced diet consisting of Meat, Vegetables, fruit and dairy products, 2 of which vegetarians do not get.

I hate vegetarians, retards

Smoking has been banned on railway tracks and bus stops here in Australia, with smoking to be banned in all pubs and clubs from 2007.

Can't wait. Take that, you selfish people.

Originally posted by Magee
Being vegetarian does not mean you are healthy and infact imo can mean the opposite. Vegetarians don't get the proteins and iron you're body needs and some people can become very ill due to lack of such things. You're body needs a balanced diet consisting of Meat, Vegetables, fruit and dairy products, 2 of which vegetarians do not get.

I hate vegetarians, retards

Vegetarians can eat dairy.

It isn't a fact that a person needs meat.

Also, it's 'your'. While we're bandying the term retard about.

True vegetarians can eat dairy and eggs. And also get more protein from beans and rice....Though eggs have a lot.

There are special insurance plans for vegetarians because they are usually healthier than most of the general public. Most live longer.

railway tracks????? " g'day mate, allright Bruce you cant stand here on the railway track smoking a cig, dont you know it can kill you.....................unlike the train that runs on these tracks

Originally posted by finti
railway tracks????? " g'day mate, allright Bruce you cant stand here on the railway track smoking a cig, dont you know it can kill you.....................unlike the train that runs on these tracks

Funny.

It's banned almost everywhere here now, besides the no smoking sections...They're also talking about banning it in Detoit, though I don't know how they're gonna do that. I remember when you could smoke in the back of planes...

Originally posted by debbiejo
It's banned almost everywhere here now, besides the no smoking sections.

Very strange.

Well many of the public buildings and public transportation and such. Even outside many public buildings, depending.

smokers have hardly any places they can smoke here in Norway, so they have to go outside to do their deeds, how I envy them that taken into consideration the temperatures we have here now...........

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well many of the public buildings and public transportation and such. Even outside many public buildings, depending.

So, to recap. It's banned everywhere, although you can smoke in the 'no smoking' sections.

Like I said- strange.

Originally posted by finti
smokers have hardly any places they can smoke here in Norway, so they have to go outside to do their deeds, how I envy them that taken into consideration the temperatures we have here now...........

Maybe you should fake it then......

Oh, VVD...haha...oh, you know what I mean...But there are many restaurants that you cannot smoke in at all.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Maybe you should fake it then......

Oh, VVD...haha...oh, you know what I mean...But there are many restaurants that you cannot smoke in at all.

Perhaps.

fake what?

Originally posted by finti
fake what?

Let it go, mate. Quit while you're ahead and she's partially lucid.

Originally posted by finti
fake what? Fake smoking of course....you know, just walk around with it so you can go outside and enjoy the weather.....Do only Americans think like this?????

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Let it go, mate. Quit while you're ahead and she's partially lucid. ......Hey, I had a long night...

Smokers can smoke pretty much anywhere here...

yeah enjoy the weather, it is f*ucking f*ucking cold here

Originally posted by finti
yeah enjoy the weather, it is f*ucking f*ucking cold here Oh....didn't realize you were being sarcastic.....thought you really envied them... ..........hmmmm, I guess I need more coffee..

im always sarcastic

I'll try to remember that in the future. bangin And that not everybody thinks like me........lol

YES

Lets ban smoking altogether. At least that will cut down on the number of people taking up hospital beds because they've polluted their lungs, and the extra beds can go to people who actually need them.

Try telling that to my mom. Oh wait I arleady have...But seriously good luck with that because I don't see you accomplishing much by banning cigs altoghter except get a lot of smokers to despise you. Whew that was a long sentance. Possibly a run on...I'm a HUGE geek sitting here crticizing my own writing. Aren't I? smartass

Smokers are selfish if they think they have the right to pollute other peopls lungs and to give themselves lung cancer then expect taxpayer chemotherapy to fix their own problem that could have been prevented in the first place. I think that if you smoke, you know what could happen. You pay the price.

while i am against smoking, im afraid to say we really can't make it illegal. that will probably just make it worse, because then people will have to smuggle them in and steal and people would end up literally killing for a cigarette. smoking sucks, drugs are bad, but, BUT, people choose to smoke cigarettes and such. so smoking sucks, but i think there's nothing more we can do about it

Originally posted by Makedde
Smokers are selfish if they think they have the right to pollute other peopls lungs and to give themselves lung cancer then expect taxpayer chemotherapy to fix their own problem that could have been prevented in the first place. As far as I know taxpayers don't pay for it.

Originally posted by Makedde
Smokers are selfish if they think they have the right to pollute other peopls lungs and to give themselves lung cancer then expect taxpayer chemotherapy to fix their own problem that could have been prevented in the first place. I think that if you smoke, you know what could happen. You pay the price.

1. Grammar

2. Taxpayers don't pay for chemotherapy. Why do you think so many families go broke when someone close to them has Cancer

Originally posted by Makedde
Smokers are selfish if they think they have the right to pollute other peopls lungs and to give themselves lung cancer then expect taxpayer chemotherapy to fix their own problem that could have been prevented in the first place. I think that if you smoke, you know what could happen. You pay the price.

Look, I live in a city that has banned smoking from almost every public activity. But, you know, the vast majority of people find themselves in the smokers corner at one point or another. I'm all for the right of another human to say they dislike and avoid smoke. But, if you don't like smoking, then don't go where smokers go. Because you want to get laid by a smoker is an invalid reason to venture into such places? And we do have the right to pollute the air around us. If you want to start a grass roots movement where non-smokers abandon the smoker for whom they have feelings, then go ahead. But, it won't work out. Just because there are some people who don't stop to consider the fact that they are partaking in an activity that will kill them, doesn't mean they don't know it will kill them. So, stop acting like they smoke because they're too stupid not to smoke.

Agreed with capt, I think it's a disgusting display of how Americans are full of it when they claim they're about freedom, yet we can't even smoke where we please, we breathe in more toxins just walking down the street do to gas exhausts in cars, yet we're worried about some dude smoking a little ciggerate.

It's all just a ploy, a ploy to see how far the goverment will bend to the will of rich protesters who don't know what it's like to have to deal with real life, and the answer is a heck of alot.

It was the tobbacco industry that helped us get out of the depression. Smoking is bad for you, but so are alot of things, hell, why doesn't the liberal werewolves do something USEFUL and ride the ass of alchaholics?

I never heard of someone killing a small child while driving under the influence of tobbacco.
Or for that matter heard someone beat thier wife senseless cause they had a smoke and were not in thier right mind.

Yet, when confronted with this, oh, suddenly we're reminded of the prohibition, and how restricting what Americans can do is wrong.

I swear, it's like Bizzaro World or something..

Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
freedom, yet we can't even smoke where we please,

i'm not saying we should be allowed to smoke where we please. I'm saying we should be allowed to smoke where we're allowed without people bitching about it.

I don't smoke in my own house.

I wouldn't smoke at a table where no one else did..or a minority of the other people there smoked.

I wouldn't smoke in the car of a non-smoker

I wouldn't smoke in my own car if the passenger didn't tell me he/she didn't mind before hand.

It was my choice to start smoking. If another person disagrees with tat, then it's common courtesy not to subject them to it. But, when I'm standing in a room that is designated for smokers, they can STFU. When I come back from such a place, don't talk about the stink of tobacco on my person. If you don't likeit, you can leave. But they never do.

Well, do you think it should be legal in a bar or casino?

Cause in Florida currently you can't, I figure if people are going to be gambeling and getting drunk off thier ass anyway, who cares?

Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
Well, do you think it should be legal in a bar or casino?

Cause in Florida currently you can't, I figure if people are going to be gambeling and getting drunk off thier ass anyway, who cares?

I would imagine that depends on the segment to which they cater. I'm not saying that all smokers are bad, evil people...but if it's a non-smoking casino, then you either shouldn't be there, or respect teh opinions of others who are.

what does getting drunk have to do with it?

Well, I figure it's a bit hypocritical, and well.. dickhead like of people to be killing thier livers but complaining about thier lungs..

Also as i said, alchahol can kill people around the drinker much more directly then ciggerates ever could.. I just think if they're going to do something, do it right or not at all.

Either ban all things like alchahol, painkillers, etc.

Or let people smoke when and where they want too.

It's like censorship, either do it all the way or don't even bother, I don't mind either one, I just mind half-ass..

Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
Well, I figure it's a bit hypocritical, and well.. dickhead like of people to be killing thier livers but complaining about thier lungs..

But, it's not the choice of the person, is it? We can all choose to suffer from one thing or another.

Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
Either ban all things like alchahol, painkillers, etc.

Sure, ban all things that alter the conceptions of a single person. This is how things like legalizing pot ends up in a conversation. Which should be done, don't misunderstand.

Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
Or let people smoke when and where they want too.

cigarettes only...or pot too?

Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
It's like censorship, either do it all the way or don't even bother, I don't mind either one, I just mind half-ass..

Censorship can be a good thing. It all depends on how it's used. I don;t think disembowlment should be on sesame streeet...but I think that not hiniding the realities of life from a kid will go a long way towards making him less of a pus*y. In the strictly terminological sense, that is.

take my nephew for example. He's a bigger wuss than I ever was....why? Because his father wants to keep reality from seeping in. When my father died, my mother didn't pretend it didn't happen...etc. But, why is that a bad thing? Reality is a bad thing? I say grow some large hairy balls and let the rest of teh world deal with their tiny hairless, testicles.

We only exist in terms of our own reality.

It's really nasty in France, people smoke everywhere, except for the subway and airport

Originally posted by silver_tears
It's really nasty in France, people smoke everywhere, except for the subway and airport
People here smoke everywhere, restaurants, elevators, offices even banks.
I love it.

Originally posted by Makedde
I am of the opinion that ciggarettes should be banned. When a smoker gets lung cancer, who pays for his/her chemotherapy? The taxpayer. Yes, we pay for other chemotherapy, but lung cancer can be prevented. Why should I have to pay for someone to have chemo when they could have prevented the situation?

There is nothing I hate more than walking down the street and seeing ciggie butts all over the ground, no one puts them in a bin.

I can't go to the pub because even in the non smoking areas, smoke drifts over from the smoking areas and you go home smelling like an ashtray.

Some people are sensitive to smoke. Should they have to lock themselves inside and not venture out for fear of having an asthma attack? Of course not.

Then there is the issue of passive smoking. All smokers, when you think about it, are killers. Their second hand smoke contributes to the deaths of thousand of people every year by passive smoking. Why should smokers is allowed to endager their lives, and the lives of non smokers? Smokers don't have a right to place my life in jepardy, which is what they are doing. Second hand smoke kills. I don't want to find out I have lung cancer from passive smoking. What do I do? Who can I sue?

These people who smoke should pay for their own chemo if they happen to get cancer, it's only fair. They should also be last priority on the transplant list. With organ donations as low as they are, we don't need to be giving healthy organs to a smoker who will only start smoking again once they leave hospital.

The Government will never make smoking illegal, they collect to much revenue. All they do is raise the prices each year and hope that will make people think twice about buying their smokes.

Smoking is a form of suicide. Every ciggarette is killing you. Why send yourself to an early grave? Why endanger the lives of non smokers? You don't have that right.

My right to remain healthy far outweighs your right to pollute your body, but it appears that smokers have more rights than I.

I smoke, I've done so for over 10 years. But I'm not going to argue the case with you because nothing you've said here is wrong. I'm a hypocrite in the sense that I agree with every word you've said and yet I'm smoking now, while typing this.

I apologise for it, but I'm not going to stop. I just have no valid excuses to back myself up. That's the way it is and if any smokers decide to come in here and argue against Makedde, that's up to them.

The restaurants one really bothers me.
We were done our meal and as our waiter was tallying up the total he was smoking near the register yuck

Blah blah blah...You do have a right to remain healthy, but people also have a right to smoke if they choose to. And you are not go to change it. You don't want to smell smoke? Stay away from smokers. It's not that hard since it's illegal to smoke just about everywhere.

Smokers preach about "You're taking away our rights to choose to smoke", well smokers are taking away the rights of the non-smokers who choose not to breathe it in, by smoking inconsiderately.

Furthermore, seeing as you CHOSE to become a smoker and you so willingly throw money away on cigarettes, you should suffer for your choice.

-AC

I hate cigarette smoke however I hate the thought of banning cigarettes and abortion and etc etc give an inch lose a mile don't ban smoking. The Govt needs to STFU and take a back seat.

I'm a militant non smoker yet I've never heard of someone smoking a cig then going out and slashing someone in the pub. Alcohol is probably more dangerous to the health of an innocent bystander than tobacco.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Smokers preach about "You're taking away our rights to choose to smoke", well smokers are taking away the rights of the non-smokers who choose not to breathe it in, by smoking inconsiderately.

Furthermore, seeing as you CHOSE to become a smoker and you so willingly throw money away on cigarettes, you should suffer for your choice.

-AC

I actually share the exact same opinion on this as you, AC.

Originally posted by Zebina
Blah blah blah...You do have a right to remain healthy, but people also have a right to smoke if they choose to. And you are not go to change it. You don't want to smell smoke? Stay away from smokers. It's not that hard since it's illegal to smoke just about everywhere.

Right, so we should all lock ourselves inside so we don't smell the smoke, huh? And if someone gets cancer from passive smoking it is their own fault, right?

My right to stay healthy far outweighs your right to pollute your body and the bodies of others.

Originally posted by Makedde


My right to stay healthy far outweighs your right to pollute your body and the bodies of others.

Well, it doesn't outweigh their right to pollute their own body. It does outweigh the second though.

I went out for tea the other night. I sat in the non smoking area. The smoke from the smoking area drifted over to my area and I went home smelling like an ashtray. I may just have sat in the smokers area because a non smoking area makes no difference at all.

Originally posted by Makedde
I went out for tea the other night. I sat in the non smoking area. The smoke from the smoking area drifted over to my area and I went home smelling like an ashtray. I may just have sat in the smokers area because a non smoking area makes no difference at all.

Exactly. Allow smoking or don't. I'm a smoker that has never asked for special concesions! If a place of buisness allows smoking, and you object due to health or socail issues, then don't f-ing go there! But, when smoking is allowed, then stop your bitching. Place yourself in "harms way" for the right reasons. I kow smoking will kill me. But, that doesn't change the reality that I smoke. Nor should it for you...or other non-smokers.

I have to agree with that, if an establishment allows smoking and you don't want to end up smelling like an ashtray, go somewhere else. Smokers are gonna have nowhere to smoke soon enough, quit whining about it now. Non smokers got their own way.

I still agree with Makedde's statements, I just can't support non smokers when they say 'I hate eating in restaurants that allow smoking, because it makes me stink/it's killing me' and then they still use said restaurant.

i think theyre should be health ciggarets that dont make u ill lol... that not possible i no cause of d smoke n stuff...lol.... like over 1/2 my skool smoke (11-16 year old) wich is illegal so making it completely illegal probly wouldnt help.

Perhaps removing the addictive part of the cigarette? Unless it's completely psychological, which some people seem to believe.

Well the nicotine is addicting and I've heard that the cigarette companies have increased the affects of the addicting substance...not sure though.......Also, it takes about 3 days for physical symptoms to end, but the rest is psychological.

Originally posted by Syren
Perhaps removing the addictive part of the cigarette? Unless it's completely psychological, which some people seem to believe. Just remove the part that makes your clothes smell like shit when you've been sitting in a room full of smokers.

Tobacco and alcohol kill more people than crack, cocaine, and heroin COMBINED each year but they're still legal. It's those other drugs we're not supposed to touch........those UNTAXED drugs. As a smoker and a drinker, I don't want to see them outlawed not only cuz I'd be really cranky , but try and remember what happened with the Prohibition Era.......all that organized crime, and violence and killing, yet the crooks were simply giving the public what they wanted......a drink. Let people smoke, I say.

I mean no offense to any smokers by saying this but I think that smoking should be outlawed. Not only is it responsible for 500,000 deaths a year, but it costs the government budget 50 billion annually for treatment- that is taxpayer money not going to a good cause. True, making smoking illegal is a radical step and it would seem unconstitutional to some to take away that right, but it has to be done sooner or later so it might as well be now. For the first ten, twenty, maybe fifty years after enacted, it will cause lots of anger and marches and underground sellings but eventually it will die down and smoking will be no more- eliminating one less thing for us all to worry about. Thats my reasoning.

I'm not a smoker, but, most of my family is. My sister brought up a very good point. You see, we live in Jersey, so they changed the age of buying cigarettes to 19, she's ticked, because she just turned 18 and bought only...4 packs of cigarettes? She thinks that the government has no right to decide the way we die. So let them smoke. That's what the smoking sections in restauraunts are for, and if you get sat in them, don't complain.
Also, it's not the tobacco industry's INTENTIONS to kill people. The people who buy the product obviously know what it is doing to them. It's all about self control. No means to offend, but, I think it is rather drastic and somewhat stupid to make smoking illegal, people are still going to do it, no matter what you say.
no, i don't smoke, and i don't want my family to smoke, but they know that they're smoking and they know it inscreases the chances of lung cancer and other diseases, it's all in the choice of the people who DO smoke.

Its also the choice of people to use drugs, and drive without a license, and carry weapons around with them. True, people do have that choice, but in the long run it is better to eliminate the choice altogether. Sure its not going to be popular but it would save a lot of lives money, and make America a model for the rest of civilized society. Also, 4000 deaths a year (yes, more than 9/11 or the Iraq war) are caused from secondhand smoke- tell me you know what this is. Even if it was just one innocent victim a year it would still be right to eliminate it for that one person. Because although that 4000 isnt a whole lot in the whole scheme of things, every person counts and every one is protected by the constituion to the right of life, liberty and etc... So those people are dying because of other peoples bad choices- much like drunk driving. Thats another reason why it should be illegal.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Its also the choice of people to use drugs, and drive without a license, and carry weapons around with them. True, people do have that choice, but in the long run it is better to eliminate the choice altogether. Sure its not going to be popular but it would save a lot of lives money, and make America a model for the rest of civilized society. Also, 4000 deaths a year (yes, more than 9/11 or the Iraq war) are caused from secondhand smoke- tell me you know what this is. Even if it was just one innocent victim a year it would still be right to eliminate it for that one person. Because although that 4000 isnt a whole lot in the whole scheme of things, every person counts and every one is protected by the constituion to the right of life, liberty and etc... So those people are dying because of other peoples bad choices- much like drunk driving. Thats another reason why it should be illegal.

Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year, the majority of whom were exposed to secondhand smoke at work, i.e. in restaurants and bars where ETS levels are found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers. The people in question chose to work in this environment.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year, the majority of whom were exposed to secondhand smoke at work, i.e. in restaurants and bars where ETS levels are found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers. The people in question chose to work in this environment.

Do you honestly think that smokers would jump at the chance to work in a smoky environment? Hell no. They are quite content to puff all over everyone else, but they'd likely complain if they had to work in a smoky environment.

Besides, if no non smoker wanted to work in a bar or club because of the smoke, how do you think the job agencys would react knowing these people refused a job because of smoke? People chose their jobs, but they should be able to do those jobs without being exposed to thousands of chemicals.

Originally posted by Syren
I still agree with Makedde's statements, I just can't support non smokers when they say 'I hate eating in restaurants that allow smoking, because it makes me stink/it's killing me' and then they still use said restaurant.

Every restaurant you go to has a lounge area and a bar area. The bar is allowed smoking, if it weren't, no beer bellied old men would go there to get drunk and the owners would lose money. The lounge areas are non smoking, but the smoke filters from the bar anyway.

The point of a non smoking area is to be away from all the smoke, but the way it is, you are right next to it. There is no bar or club here that is completely smoke free. People make too much money off beer drinking, smoking old men to ban it.

Originally posted by Makedde
Do you honestly think that smokers would jump at the chance to work in a smoky environment? Hell no. They are quite content to puff all over everyone else, but they'd likely complain if they had to work in a smoky environment.

How do you figure?



Originally posted by Makedde
Besides, if no non smoker wanted to work in a bar or club because of the smoke, how do you think the job agencys would react knowing these people refused a job because of smoke? People chose their jobs, but they should be able to do those jobs without being exposed to thousands of chemicals.

I do not suspect that job agencies will react differently than they do when someone refuses other jobs because of a potentially dangerous work environment. If a job agency presents one with the opportunity to work in a coal mine, he is not obligated to take it. He chooses whether or not he wants to work in that environment.

Originally posted by Makedde
Every restaurant you go to has a lounge area and a bar area. The bar is allowed smoking, if it weren't, no beer bellied old men would go there to get drunk and the owners would lose money. The lounge areas are non smoking, but the smoke filters from the bar anyway.

The point of a non smoking area is to be away from all the smoke, but the way it is, you are right next to it. There is no bar or club here that is completely smoke free. People make too much money off beer drinking, smoking old men to ban it.

I understand this, but the way things are going most bars/clubs and especially restaurants are completely banning smoking anyway, so what's the problem?

i dont understand how people just cant suck it up and walk away. Instead of complaining.
I remember i went to an amusement park with my friends, in line, there was a huge group of people smoking, i had no problem with it, but my friends were being really dramatic and pretending to cough and shit.
It's not second hand smoke that's killing people.
IT'S THE STUPIDITY OF THE PEOPLE TO NOT JUST WALK AWAY!!! i don't understand..
I get it how people don't want to be endangered(spelling) by smokers, but what i DON'T get is how the people around them can't deal with the fact that there is going to be smokers.
NO MEANS TO OFFEND either. Just stating a point

So you mean if there's someone smoking right next to you and it's offending you, you should just walk away and go stand somewhere else? I agree with that

You know I see a lot of problems with some of the "Points" Made in this thread. I have smoked the occasional cigar since I turned 19 last year, (Live in Texas so I could have began earlier.) but I have never smoked around others who were not smoking. I don't smoke in restaurants, and when someone happens to the area where I am smoking and ASKS me politely to put out my stogie or move I do so without hesitation.

I smoke cigars because I chose to. It is selfish for someone to assume that All smokers are inconsiderate and want all smoking to be banned or made illegal. Look at Drugs, which are illegal. They are still used everyday, and when alcohol was made illegal during the Prohibition it was still being made and drank.

If you did succeed in banning Cigarettes(Let's say tobacco in general)
you would have to ban Potato chips, diet (soda)drinks, and sugar substitutes as they all contain certain ingrediants that cause liver failure after so many years. Why not Fast Food as it makes you fat and French Fries since they are known to cause cancer? While you're at it why not ban Coffee? If you spill it all over yourself then you could get burned. If everyone went around banning everything they deemed bad for their health then there won't be much left.

Some of you (not pointing any fingers) remind me of Kyle's Mom from South Park. You are close-minded and want to force your views on everyone that will listen. Your views are your own and you will just have to accept that a smoker's views are just as valid as yours. They have the right to smoke if they so choose and you have the right to safeguard your own health. So I say this to you. "STAY THE **** AWAY FROM SMOKERS *******!" (with my previous statement I am in no way insulting or showing how I feel about particular forum members. I am just making a statement about how I feel about ignorant people who can't help but spew BS out of their Oral cavities.) Don't come onto a Web forum and complain about smokers when it was your choice to be in an area where you know smoking is allowed. Odds are people will be there smoking.

Oh, and some people have said that they should ban all forms of tobacco. Why is this? I don't chew tobacco, but both of my parents do. Despite my drinking out of their "Spit bottles" (they spit in any empty soda bottle, hence my confusion) when I was three I have not been diagnosed with mouth cancer from secondhand spit.

Actually there are some cases where people are highly reactant to smoke fumes and can be killed by only a small amount- sometimes they dont even know they have the disorder and die without even knowing why. Some people's lungs are too fragile to take the stress.

And when someone said earlier that those 3000 deaths from secondhand smoke were caused by working in smoky conditions- they were only half right. Its that 3000 PLUS the 4000 I mentioned earlier because factory/ work enviormental hazards dont count as secondhand and they are not from smoking. Nearly all of the 4000 I mentioned come from people who live with smokers- half of them being children who really dont have a choice as to just walk away from smokers because their house is probably full of smoke fumes. If only for their sake alone we should end smoking once and for all. If you smoke now then you have already made your choice but why even give the next generations the chance?

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Actually there are some cases where people are highly reactant to smoke fumes and can be killed by only a small amount- sometimes they dont even know they have the disorder and die without even knowing why. Some people's lungs are too fragile to take the stress.

And when someone said earlier that those 3000 deaths from secondhand smoke were caused by working in smoky conditions- they were only half right. Its that 3000 PLUS the 4000 I mentioned earlier because factory/ work enviormental hazards dont count as secondhand and they are not from smoking. Nearly all of the 4000 I mentioned come from people who live with smokers- half of them being children who really dont have a choice as to just walk away from smokers because their house is probably full of smoke fumes. If only for their sake alone we should end smoking once and for all. If you smoke now then you have already made your choice but why even give the next generations the chance?

There are only 3,000 deaths attributed to second-hand smoke in the United States each year according to the American Lung Association. I would be interested to know where you are getting this ridiculous 7,000 number from.

I would be interested to see how they can draw conclusive data that the death rate is 3000 per year on second hand smoke.

hospitalization maybe?
Agent Hunk, i totally agree with you. Black Ghost, ehh. not so much
i understand how some people have weak lungs. I do, I have asthma. My mom smokes and both my sisters smoke.
But with the child not having a choice about walking out of the house? The parents have a choice. And banning smoking couldn't help too much.
Say they smoke a couple times inside the house, like maybe three times wheen the kiid is at school. When the kid comes home: "ehh, i'll smoke outside" But when it gets banned, the parents are afraid that somebody is going to see them smoking outside, causing them to smoke more inside, endangering the child even more.
That is just from experience, i know that there are those select parents who don't care about their child.

simply replace all the tobacco farmers crops with weed. Offer a pack of joints at the store. PPl will still smoke, farmers will still make money, and the gub'ment still gets their enormous cut of the proceeds.

Making something illegal doesn't make it go away, it only creats a black market for it. Smoking should be banned indoors everywhere except in private homes though.

Cigarette's should never have existed,but for many reasons,they will never go away...

1.Too much has already been built on the tobacco industry
2.People who already smoke will protest and find other means of getting cigarettes
3.Americans always want something more when it's illegal

I only read the first page of this thread.......but it seems that most of the rhetoric about smoking from the non-smokers is based on second hand smoke. The rhetoric about second hand smoke began when the EPA did a study in in 1993 concluding it was harmful. That same study was overturned in 1998 when it was revealed that the study not only falsified some if it's data that labeled second hand smoke harmful......but also that it completely threw out all the data that directly invalidated their claims that it was.

yes, smoking is harmful.......to the smoker. We all know this. That said, if I don't care......you have no right to tell me what's better for my health than I myself choose. For those who believe in this fantasy of second hand smoke, you might want to stay indoors as the smoke from an one automobile's exaust is far more harmful to you than the smoke from a hundred smokers. The idea that second hand smoke is harmful is so ridiculous that the EPA themselves had to fake a study to appease those worried about it.

PS. it's a matter of record, check it out. All claims of second hand smoke was indeed based on the EPA's '93 study.......which was thrown out and legally overturned in '98 when it came to light that it was faked.

Originally posted by K.Diddy
Well, A lot of people seem to get off on bashing pot cause it is illegal and ''harmful''-

So, Let's talk about the number 1 killer in my country- Cigarette's



They cause cancer, Take up rooms in the hospital, and generally are the worst thing besides Heroin,that anyone can be addicted too Not to mention all the other negative things about it.

Marijuana does not do any of that, So if the Government are so up there ass about not making pot legal, (which is funny, how a ''plant'' can even BE illegal'' How do the Government explain, Why they have not made Cigarette's illegal. well no. It's called being free. You should do what you want when/where as long as it doesn't hurt other people.

Originally posted by Black Rob
Cigarette's should never have existed,but for many reasons,they will never go away...

1.Too much has already been built on the tobacco industry
2.People who already smoke will protest and find other means of getting cigarettes
3.Americans always want something more when it's illegal yes that's why the war on drugs is the worst decision ever.

I JUST GAVE UP THE SIGS AND AM VERY HAPPY WIF MYSELF FOR DOIN SO. IT SUCKS. BUT I DONT THINK IT SOULD BE BAND COZ PPL WOULD STILL SMOKE ANYWAY.BUT THEYD B DOIN IT ILLEGALY

That's quite a user name, avi, and dancing banana you got for yourself!

Originally posted by botankus
That's quite a user name, avi, and dancing banana you got for yourself!
IS THAT TO ME?

yeah

Y THANK U I RATHER LIKE THEM MYSELF.

Must all your posts be in caps? It's annoying.

FUK U ILL HAVE THEM ALL IN CAPS IF I WANT TO

Watch your language.

I like this new "Account Restricted" thing in bold Raz has going on now. It's easier to distinguish from the people who like to be cute and put "Restricted" as their status message.

p.s. I like the banning of people who post in ALL CAPS...good idea!

BANNING PEOPLE WHO POST ONLY IN CAPS!!!! WHO WOULD POST IN ALL CAPS!!! .....





.......OMG, they're on to me!!!

Originally posted by K.Diddy
Well, A lot of people seem to get off on bashing pot cause it is illegal and ''harmful''-

So, Let's talk about the number 1 killer in my country- Cigarette's



They cause cancer, Take up rooms in the hospital, and generally are the worst thing besides Heroin,that anyone can be addicted too Not to mention all the other negative things about it.

Marijuana does not do any of that, So if the Government are so up there ass about not making pot legal, (which is funny, how a ''plant'' can even BE illegal'' How do the Government explain, Why they have not made Cigarette's illegal. no. Just because you don't like smoking doesn't mean it should be illegal. Penn and Teller did a bullshit episode on that.

I wouldn't ban it but I'd change the ingredients so that the smoke doesn't smell like shit. Maybe change the smell to resemble a nice Indian meal or something. Or Jessica Albas armpit.