Good Music!

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H. S. 6
I figured this might be able to go into the Music forums, but I just wanted an opinion from you guys. I need some good songs that get you all pumped up. I don't care what genre, just something that gets you pumped to do anything! eek!

Fox13
final fantasy 7 midi's

Ronny
Anything by Mindless self indulgence gets you pumped up. droolio

Fox13
was that directed to me or hot sauce?

rickyduck
Comfortably Numb - Pink Floyd....

dunno why though

rickyduck
Or On Ebay - Weird Al Yankovic

GCG
- AC/DC - Caught with your pants down.

rickyduck
Originally posted by GCG
- AC/DC - Caught with your pants down. woohooo

bloodboys2blueb
Frank Sinatra-bad, bad Leroy Brown

Deathblow
Any genre huh? Let's see now...

Fluke - Snapshot
The Prodigy - Break and Enter
System of a Down - Prison Song
System of a Down - Shame
Soulfly - Prophecy
Mos Def & Massive Attack - I Against I
Boysetsfire - White Wedding Dress
In Flames - Pinball Map
Jedi Mind Tricks - Gengis Khan
Atmosphere - Cats Van Bags
Public Enemy - Party For Your Right To Fight

Inspectah Deck
Got Yourself A Gun
Nas

Alpha Centauri
Planning to pay for these songs I assume?

-AC

mysterio69
super-charger heaven by white zombie

RedAlertv2
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Planning to pay for these songs I assume?

-AC

Careful its the Download Police

Alpha Centauri
If only I had the power my friend I'd warn/ban each and every person suggesting any kind of illegality and thievery, but I don't.

So I just try to do my part and encourage paying for music.

-AC

H. S. 6
Thanks guys. Seems like AC-DC might be a good choice.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Planning to pay for these songs I assume?

-AC

yes

knight
BIG COUNTRY...

Albums:

The Crossing
Steel Town
The Seer
Peace In Our Time
No Place Like Home
Driving To Demascus

DVD's:

Final Fling
The Ultimate Collection


http://www.bigcountry.co.uk/

Mišt
Blink 182 - Feeling This
Blink 182 - Josie
The Offspring - The Kids Aren't Alright
System of a Down - Tentative
Stereophonics -Dakota
Clubland XTreme Hardcore - Time Still Drifts Away
White Stripes - Blue Orchid
Bloodhound Gang - I Hope You Die

Roulette
Nirvana - smells like teen spirit
A Perfect Circle - Magdalena
Opeth - the drapery falls
Korn - freak on a leash

*rubs chin*...I can't think of any others right now.

el_barto
Speaking of Smells Like Teen Spirit, at my school dance last night the "DJ" bastard cut it off in the middle and then switched to Bowling for Soup's 1985 *Cringes*.

Roulette
shockwhat the feckle was he thinking? *shakes fist at dj*

Inspectah Deck
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Planning to pay for these songs I assume?

-AC

I wouldn't

Lana
System of a Down - Violent Pornography
Weezer - Undone (the Sweater Song)
Radiohead - Paranoid Android
Anything by MSI
Garbage - Sex is Not the Enemy (stick out tongue)

Victor Von Doom
Anything by the band Lowgold. Or Tiger, ancient band.

The Libertines, or even The Arctic Monkeys.


...Bloc Party, or Babyshambles.

Alpha Centauri
Hahaha.

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
I wouldn't

I know, because you're a thief and therefore irrelevant.

-AC

Inspectah Deck
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hahaha.



I know, because you're a thief and therefore irrelevant.

-AC

laughing out loud funny

el_barto
Heres what I think about music piracy:

Alpha Centauri
That was probably/definitely written by an idiot who got busted for downloading.

It's stupid to claim "I love the music, that's why I do it." If you loved the music, you'd support the people making it by paying them. You obviously don't love music that much if paying for it is a hassle to you.

Quite tired of seeing stupid people try to justify it. The end line just seals the coffin; "So much for doing it for the kids." News flash, real musicians do it for themselves. If you're so naive as to think they owe you, then you're even more an idiot. I'm sure Ralph Lauren would be pissed if someone was stealing all his clothes out of stores with the motive of "I was eager to wear your label. You should be thankful."

Moreover, people download and then b*tch about the music if they don't like it, slandering it on messageboards and blogs etc. What's the big deal? What did you lose? Money? No. Time? Yes, your own fault.

-AC

Refused
Yah, but as long as people keep downloading music from artists that are signed with big record labels, i think it's a good thing so that eventually the huge record labels crumble and the whole music industry changes for the better. But that's pretty ****ed up if your stealing from indie music artists that you love.

Dr. Strangelove
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Anything by the band Lowgold. Or Tiger, ancient band.

The Libertines, or even The Arctic Monkeys.


...Bloc Party, or Babyshambles.

Why don't you add Coldplay and Franz Ferdinand and kill the man already.

Afro Cheese
Originally posted by Refused
Yah, but as long as people keep downloading music from artists that are signed with big record labels, i think it's a good thing so that eventually the huge record labels crumble and the whole music industry changes for the better. But that's pretty ****ed up if your stealing from indie music artists that you love. The internet is probably the best thing that ever happen to indie artists. Instead of having to gain fans strictly through local live shows they can gain a fanbase from all over the world without ever getting any radio play. I'd think in the long run it's helped indie artists more than it's hurt them.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Refused
Yah, but as long as people keep downloading music from artists that are signed with big record labels, i think it's a good thing so that eventually the huge record labels crumble and the whole music industry changes for the better. But that's pretty ****ed up if your stealing from indie music artists that you love.

You're uneducated and foolishly rebellious in your anti-record company attitude. The record industry wouldn't change for the better if majors were gone, sorry to inform you. Second, it's hypocritical to say it's wrong to ONLY steal from artists you love. I'm anti-downloading overall. I care less about others, but I'm anti-downloading for everyone. I think everyone should pay for their music.

On your incredibly naive and passe punk point of view, big record companies, as money and greed orientated as they are, are not evil. It's their job to make money and it's their job to sign artists that will make them money. Ironically it's not in their interests ALWAYS to rob their artists, because then they leave and that's not necessarily what they want.

Radiohead are on a major, Foos are on a major, many great bands are on major labels. If major labels know that a band are talented enough and reliable enough to get units shifted on their own, 100% free of interferance, they will allow it. Tool, Radiohead, Opeth, they all do this. The only time record companies puppeteer acts are when the act has no talent and is purely a vehicle for robbing kids of their money. It's like money for nothing. If a band stands firm and says they won't lay down, then chances are the record company will cave in and leave them be, if the band is reliable enough. So no, actually. You're wrong there.

People like you always assume majors are evil corporations who couldn't give a shit (which may be true in MANY cases, but not all) and that every independent label is strolling around with great artist/exec relationships, bands not complaining. Trent Reznor famously had TVT try to rip him off and tie him up in legal hassles for ages, Offtime records screwed At the Drive-In on many of their early EPs and let's not forget the semi-famous (if you're a Tool fan) lawsuit that cost Tool many years in court, on account of their former label.

You shouldn't go throwing silly opinions around.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
The internet is probably the best thing that ever happen to indie artists. Instead of having to gain fans strictly through local live shows they can gain a fanbase from all over the world without ever getting any radio play. I'd think in the long run it's helped indie artists more than it's hurt them.

You're confusing the issue majorly, which is the worst thing people do on the issue of downloading.

The internet is great for exposure. EG: Forum discussion, websites, music sites. THAT'S where the exposure comes from. You can gain exposure enough to wanna buy their CD without doing it illegally. Illegal downloading only does nothing but harm the artists, to one degree or another.

Illegal downloading is a pointless debate that nobody can win. I've heard and successfully countered each and every excuse in the book.

-AC

Bardock42
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Illegal downloading is a pointless debate that nobody can win. I've heard and successfully countered each and every excuse in the book.

-AC

What about: "I don't ****ing care, I get my Music for free" ?

papabeard
People = Shit - Slipknot

You Shook Me All Night Long - AC/DC

Chemical Bros - Exit Planet Dust/Dig your own Hole

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Bardock42
What about: "I don't ****ing care, I get my Music for free" ?

Doesn't need countering, it's self-destroying.

-AC

Bardock42
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Doesn't need countering, it's self-destroying.

-AC

How so?

Alpha Centauri
Read it back.

-AC

Afro Cheese
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're confusing the issue majorly, which is the worst thing people do on the issue of downloading.

The internet is great for exposure. EG: Forum discussion, websites, music sites. THAT'S where the exposure comes from. You can gain exposure enough to wanna buy their CD without doing it illegally. Illegal downloading only does nothing but harm the artists, to one degree or another.

Illegal downloading is a pointless debate that nobody can win. I've heard and successfully countered each and every excuse in the book.

-AC I'm not excusing illegal downloading.. it's illegal and therefore can't be excused any more than anything else that's illegal. I was responding to Refused's post about indie artists. Most of the time, people will hear about these artists through forums like this one, then download their music and become a fan. Eventually they're buying cd's and going to concerts. Some don't, and that's wrong, but the majority of these people would've never known about the artist without illegal downloading in the first place. Most people aren't going to buy an album based on a little sample of their music. They want to know for a fact that they enjoy the music, and a lot of people can't do that through articles and little audio samples. Once again, not that this is "right," it's just the way it is.

It does get abused.. but in the long run it adds the artist's fanbase more than anything in the case of more obscure artists. In the case of already established artists, it basically does almost nothing besides harm.

D00m
It's like this gets talked about every single day. Yes it's wrong to steal, but I wouldn't call the people the do it stupid or insult them personally for doing something I don't believe in. No matter how much we argue, it's never going to change (I know, duh huh?). So arguing (especially with AC) is pointless.

Alpha Centauri
Good contribution, Doom. This is a discussion board though. Bush got elected again last November, people are still going on about it. Shit happens.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I'm not excusing illegal downloading.. it's illegal and therefore can't be excused any more than anything else that's illegal. I was responding to Refused's post about indie artists. Most of the time, people will hear about these artists through forums like this one, then download their music and become a fan. Eventually they're buying cd's and going to concerts. Some don't, and that's wrong, but the majority of these people would've never known about the artist without illegal downloading in the first place. Most people aren't going to buy an album based on a little sample of their music. They want to know for a fact that they enjoy the music, and a lot of people can't do that through articles and little audio samples. Once again, not that this is "right," it's just the way it is.

It does get abused.. but in the long run it adds the artist's fanbase more than anything in the case of more obscure artists. In the case of already established artists, it basically does almost nothing besides harm.

Yes but all that pretty post amounted to was "People will do it, it's wrong, but they'll do it." Which I never denied and yes, if people gain their first taste through illegal downloading and cancel that out by paying, fair enough. That, believe it or not, is the minority.

-AC

D00m
A side note: I'd rather get rid of Bush first then illegal d/l. thumb up

Afro Cheese
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes but all that pretty post amounted to was "People will do it, it's wrong, but they'll do it." Which I never denied and yes, if people gain their first taste through illegal downloading and cancel that out by paying, fair enough. That, believe it or not, is the minority.

-AC Actually it amounted to the point that illegal file sharing has more of a positive impact on indie bands than a negative one, regaurdless of if it's right or wrong. Which was my point in the first post as well. Once again, not defending it on an individual level.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Actually it amounted to the point that illegal file sharing has more of a positive impact on indie bands than a negative one, regaurdless of if it's right or wrong. Which was my point in the first post as well. Once again, not defending it on an individual level.

Illegal file sharing is a positive for indie bands? I don't think you've thought this through.

"Indie" bands now have to sell well over half a million records to even begin to make profit, maybe more nowadays, due to illegal file sharing.

-AC

#16
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Illegal file sharing is a positive for indie bands? I don't think you've thought this through.

"Indie" bands now have to sell well over half a million records to even begin to make profit, maybe more nowadays, due to illegal file sharing.

-AC

^wrong

they dont need to sell that much. lol @ you posting bullshit and making it look like gospel truth. u might "know' music but you dont know the music biz.

an indie producer usually makes 6$ every one unit sold and the artist gets 4$. so just imagine an LP sells 80,000 copies (ex. the realness) thats 80k x 4$ = 240,000. that's 240,000 dollars.

now lets say you master p... mia x's mama drama was certified platinum, so thats 1m x 6$ = 6,000,000 dollars. now that's some cake.

on the real, if you wanna make it big in the industry it's best you go indy instead of whoring yourselves out to the major label execs, who'll milk you out for all your worth... except if they offer you a million-dollar contract.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by #16
^wrong

they dont need to sell that much. lol @ you posting bullshit and making it look like gospel truth. u might "know' music but you dont know the music biz.

Not actually wrong, both proving you and your following claim wrong. Though I'll allow this to continue.

Originally posted by #16
an indie producer usually makes 6$ every one unit sold and the artist gets 4$. so just imagine an LP sells 80,000 copies (ex. the realness) thats 80k x 4$ = 240,000. that's 240,000 dollars.

That was a reasonably well known artist though, it wasn't an indie artist was it? He wasn't going around struggling, getting music fans to come to his shows. He was famous for many things in the lower end of the mainstream circuit.

Originally posted by #16
now lets say you master p... mia x's mama drama was certified platinum, so thats 1m x 6$ = 6,000,000 dollars. now that's some cake.

Go on...waiting for your point here. Comparing "MC's" who can afford to have a mouthful of platinum to a band touring their hometown and surrounding areas in a van, struggling to make profit because they have to pay their label and compensate for "fans" stealing from them, isn't a good way to go, but continue.

Originally posted by #16
on the real, if you wanna make it big in the industry it's best you go indy instead of whoring yourselves out to the major label execs, who'll milk you out for all your worth... except if they offer you a million-dollar contract.

I swear reading your posts is like watching a bunch of dudes trying to hump a keyboard. All that comes out is a mess and letters.

If your GOAL is to be famous (successful is different) then whoring yourself is what you do, and it's a disgrace. All those American Idol esque people.

MF Doom is successful, Cannibal Ox are successful. On the other hand, Radiohead are successful, Metallica are one of the biggest selling bands of all time and they reached that point before any of the Load stuff happened (which doesn't matter to me anyway), on a major. Opeth had 7 albums on various indie labels from 96 to 2005 before they signed to a major and nothing bad has happened. Infact, they even had bad cases with their indie label claiming rights to songs.

Majors may be, in comparison, worse overall than indie labels, but that's not always the case. Majors get a bad rep and indies get a better rep than they sometimes deserve. Infact, that's where a lot of the worst rip offs happen.

-AC

Afro Cheese
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Illegal file sharing is a positive for indie bands? I don't think you've thought this through. Well the logic behind my point would be that indie bands gain a worldwide fan base through file sharing. A lot of these fans do end up supporting the band financially, a lot of them don't. Even the ones who DON'T pay the band in any way whatsoever are only denying them of a profit they wouldn't have had a chance at without file sharing anyway. None of these people would have heard of this band if their music wasn't freely distributed throughout the internet and promoted on forums like this one. They basically would've been limited to the select few who'd be willing to purchase an album based on a review or audioclip from the band's website.

Why is that?

Refused
Let's see, if we ban file sharing then that means less exposure to indie artits and equals less money that indie artists make (at least for me because i know i wouldn't just go around buying stuff that i haven't heard). And on the mainstream side, it's pretty much the status quo, we'll continue to get crap music playing in the mainstream media outlets.
So now that i think about it, we're pretty much screwed either way. The general public will continue to listen to uninspired music. Fin.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Well the logic behind my point would be that indie bands gain a worldwide fan base through file sharing. A lot of these fans do end up supporting the band financially, a lot of them don't. Even the ones who DON'T pay the band in any way whatsoever are only denying them of a profit they wouldn't have had a chance at without file sharing anyway. None of these people would have heard of this band if their music wasn't freely distributed throughout the internet and promoted on forums like this one. They basically would've been limited to the select few who'd be willing to purchase an album based on a review or audioclip from the band's website.

I don't buy that safe-route "A lot of them do, a lot don't." More don't than the amount that do, it's a fact. Hence why it's such a financial problem.

If you download it and don't pay the band, you have their property on your computer that they should have your money for, they don't. How is there any attempt at justifying this? What good has the exposure done? Someone now has a copy of their album for free in a manner they do not wish to have it distributed. If that person didn't know about them, they're not gaining, but they're not losing. If someone knows about them, steals their album and doesn't pay them, what do they get? Nothing. They LOSE an album sale. "Hey! I love your band!" "Sweet! Got our album?" "Yeah...downloaded it." "Wha-what? Dude, buy it." "Why? What's the point?" "Support us." "I am, go you guys!" Yeah, doesn't do much. Your logic is extremely flawed.

"If they don't know about the band, it's the same as them knowing and not paying." It's not is it? No. Stupid.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Why is that?

Because people illegally download the albums, burn them for friends, who burn them for friends and RE-upload them for other P2P file sharers. That's how it works and that's how it's become a huge problem. It seriously demeans sales.

Originally posted by Refused
Let's see, if we ban file sharing then that means less exposure to indie artits and equals less money that indie artists make (at least for me because i know i wouldn't just go around buying stuff that i haven't heard). And on the mainstream side, it's pretty much the status quo, we'll continue to get crap music playing in the mainstream media outlets.
So now that i think about it, we're pretty much screwed either way. The general public will continue to listen to uninspired music. Fin

You made no point here, at all. Money doesn't get LOST by banning file sharing. People will end up having to buy the music, or even if they don't, the band will at least be keeping the money they earn of record sales and ticket sales. Rather than people stealing their album.

The idea isn't for them to make MORE money, it's for them to get the money they deserve by influencing people to pay for the music.

I don't understand the debate. If you want something you should pay for it unless it is legally free, eg: Supermarket free samples.

-AC

Refused
I didn't saying anything about the morality of it. I was talking about the greater good of the music industry. I was just making a comment on the effects of banning file sharing.

D00m
Man I don't know how many artists there are that wouldn't have ever gotten a dime from me if it wasn't for file sharing. CD's, shows, shirts, ect. It can be good and bad. Mostly bad for the big mainstream acts, and help for independent artists trying to get their music out there. I think we all know that.

As the homie Murs said, I don't care if you d/l my music. Just support if you like what you hear. Sounds fair enough.

Alpha Centauri
The greater good, in your opinion, is the fall of all majors. There couldn't be a worse thing to happen.

If all the shit music was gone, what would the idiots latch onto? Exactly. Keep Kelly Clarkson, Chris Brown and all these talentless idiots out there, let the majors push them, let the kids and idiots pay for it. Keeps them away from the Tool, Radiohead etc.

Any true music fan knows that bad music has its purpose.

Originally posted by D00m
Man I don't know how many artists there are that wouldn't have ever gotten a dime from me if it wasn't for file sharing. CD's, shows, shirts, ect. It can be good and bad. Mostly bad for the big mainstream acts, and help for intendant artists trying to get their music out there. I think we all know that.

As the homie Murs said, I don't care if you d/l my music. Just support if you like what you hear. Sounds fair enough.

Yes Doom, you support artists and that's cool. I'm not popping at people who support artists. I don't understand why people think it's a GOOD thing to hurt the majors.

A) You couldn't hurt the majors, they've got many puppets to make money off. You're hurting the great musicians who ARE on majors as a result.

B) They are keeping shit music out there, but that's keeping the shit people away from material they aren't willing to seek out. Which is good.

Doom, you sound like a guy who is proud of true hip hop, real music with a purpose. As much as you love sharing your hip hop recommendations with those on this site who don't know much more but are GENUINELY willing to learn and seek, how would you feel if every Joe Nobody started saying "Yeah man, Can Ox!" Then began ripping the hell out of them, stealing their music and moreover, not even appreciating them as much as those who sought them out? Do you see my point? Yes, it's elitist, but it's true and I think you can see that.

If you download and then pay for what you hear, fine. Fine with me. My only request beyond paying is that to all the downloaders: Don't say any music sucks, you're getting it for free. You have nothing to complain about.

-AC

Bardock42
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Because people illegally download the albums, burn them for friends, who burn them for friends and RE-upload them for other P2P file sharers. That's how it works and that's how it's become a huge problem. It seriously demeans sales.

-AC

Woah, woah now, that doesn't make sense. Why should the need to sell more albums then before? It's possible that it is much harder to sell the CDs nowadays.

Or do you mean that the CDs are cheaper nowadays?

Alpha Centauri
Exactly, it's harder to sell CDs because people are downloading it all.

The record industry are being caught in a catch 22. They can't raise prices because people ALREADY moan that $9 CDs are too expensive, they can't lower them because then there'd be no profit, which is needed.

People just need to start sacrificing a little and spending money on more music. It's not hard is it? Paying for music you love.

-AC

D00m
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The greater good, in your opinion, is the fall of all majors. There couldn't be a worse thing to happen.

If all the shit music was gone, what would the idiots latch onto? Exactly. Keep Kelly Clarkson, Chris Brown and all these talentless idiots out there, let the majors push them, let the kids and idiots pay for it. Keeps them away from the Tool, Radiohead etc.

Any true music fan knows that bad music has its purpose.

-AC

I don't know. I still don't think those people would feel Radiohead, MF Doom, ect. Sure, they'll gain more fans from the exposure, but the same Kelly Clarkson fans will still like crappy music. How can somebody go from Brilliant (radiohead) to lame (insert artist here)?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by D00m
I don't know. I still don't think those people would feel Radiohead, MF Doom, ect. Sure, they'll gain more fans from the exposure, but the same Kelly Clarkson fans will still like crappy music. How can somebody go from Brilliant (radiohead) to lame (insert artist here)?

I edited my post for your reply.

On this however, I do agree. However, that's exactly my point. I don't want some idiot who has no clue about Radiohead saying "Yeah Radiohead! OMG! Radiohead!" I mean, most of me doesn't care, I do my own thing and don't really pay attention. I does irk me though. It's like, if Can Ox were everyone's favs tomorrow and YOU KNEW that hardly anyone on TRL understood them, you'd be thinking "Now hang on, where were you back in the day? You don't appreciate them, you just like them cos they're popular."

-AC

Refused
Damnit, you got a point. Dumb people will continue to listen to dumb music.

Bardock42
Originally posted by D00m
I don't know. I still don't think those people would feel Radiohead, MF Doom, ect. Sure, they'll gain more fans from the exposure, but the same Kelly Clarkson fans will still like crappy music. How can somebody go from Brilliant (radiohead) to lame (insert artist here)?

Well if there's nothing else they might just do....

D00m
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The greater good, in your opinion, is the fall of all majors. There couldn't be a worse thing to happen.

If all the shit music was gone, what would the idiots latch onto? Exactly. Keep Kelly Clarkson, Chris Brown and all these talentless idiots out there, let the majors push them, let the kids and idiots pay for it. Keeps them away from the Tool, Radiohead etc.

Any true music fan knows that bad music has its purpose.



Yes Doom, you support artists and that's cool. I'm not popping at people who support artists. I don't understand why people think it's a GOOD thing to hurt the majors.

A) You couldn't hurt the majors, they've got many puppets to make money off. You're hurting the great musicians who ARE on majors as a result.

B) They are keeping shit music out there, but that's keeping the shit people away from material they aren't willing to seek out. Which is good.

Doom, you sound like a guy who is proud of true hip hop, real music with a purpose. As much as you love sharing your hip hop recommendations with those on this site who don't know much more but are GENUINELY willing to learn and seek, how would you feel if every Joe Nobody started saying "Yeah man, Can Ox!" Then began ripping the hell out of them, stealing their music and moreover, not even appreciating them as much as those who sought them out? Do you see my point? Yes, it's elitist, but it's true and I think you can see that.

If you download and then pay for what you hear, fine. Fine with me. My only request beyond paying is that to all the downloaders: Don't say any music sucks, you're getting it for free. You have nothing to complain about.

-AC

I hear ya man. I know exactly where you're coming from. and honestly, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I was speaking for those who don't abuse file sharing. It bugs the hell out of me that people d/l good music and don't support. I was just saying there are those of us who actually help artists. Although, we are in the minority.

D00m
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I edited my post for your reply.

On this however, I do agree. However, that's exactly my point. I don't want some idiot who has no clue about Radiohead saying "Yeah Radiohead! OMG! Radiohead!" I mean, most of me doesn't care, I do my own thing and don't really pay attention. I does irk me though. It's like, if Can Ox were everyone's favs tomorrow and YOU KNEW that hardly anyone on TRL understood them, you'd be thinking "Now hang on, where were you back in the day? You don't appreciate them, you just like them cos they're popular."

-AC

AC you gettin me depressed man. Just thinkin about these TRL heads listening to Ox and Radiohead only because they're sheep. So I agree with you on that. But I think you're giving them a little too much credit. I still think their taste would suck and they would still find crappy musical acts to follow.

Alpha Centauri
It's like I said before, you voted against Bush I assume? Even if you KNEW your vote wouldn't make the difference and cause him to lose, it was enough to know that when the chips were down, regardless of the outcome, you wanted to know you had made a contribution to bringing about the lesser of two evils, right?

Same as me with downloading. I just like to know that when the chips were down, I put my money where my mouth was and paid for the work. I paid for NIN's With Teeth album and it's a piece of shit. I wouldn't buy it again if I didn't have it, but I'd not download it either. Whilst I HATE that album, I do complain about it, I'd willingly step up to a downloader who was dissing it and say "Well wait, you didn't spend money on it, why are you bitching?"

Originally posted by D00m
AC you gettin me depressed man. Just thinkin about these TRL heads listening to Ox and Radiohead only because they're sheep. So I agree with you on that. But I think you're giving them a little too much credit. I still think their taste would suck and they would still find crappy musical acts to follow.

Absolutely, I agree totally. I'm just saying, it'd suck wouldn't it? Real bad. That whole point was more about how having shit mainstream (for the most part) isn't all bad.

-AC

D00m
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's like I said before, you voted against Bush I assume? Even if you KNEW your vote wouldn't make the difference and cause him to lose, it was enough to know that when the chips were down, regardless of the outcome, you wanted to know you had made a contribution to bringing about the lesser of two evils, right?

Same as me with downloading. I just like to know that when the chips were down, I put my money where my mouth was and paid for the work. I paid for NIN's With Teeth album and it's a piece of shit. I wouldn't buy it again if I didn't have it, but I'd not download it either. Whilst I HATE that album, I do complain about it, I'd willingly step up to a downloader who was dissing it and say "Well wait, you didn't spend money on it, why are you bitching?"

-AC

Word man. I respect that. So respect here.

Just don't get all the arguing, even when people do seem to support who they like.

D00m
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Absolutely, I agree totally. I'm just saying, it'd suck wouldn't it? Real bad. That whole point was more about how having shit mainstream (for the most part) isn't all bad.

-AC

touche

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The greater good, in your opinion, is the fall of all majors. There couldn't be a worse thing to happen.



An excerpt from my new play, 'It Wasn't Actually All That Bad'.

Outside, in a concentration camp workyard, Jack and Jerry discuss life.


Jack: Even if we never leave this place- alive, at least- it's inevitable that history will learn from the mistakes being made today. This will never happen again, and in that small portion of good we have to find comfort.

Jerry: I still think this is the worst thing to happen in the history of mankind.

Jack: Whoa whoa whoa. Have all the majors fallen?

Jerry: G-good point.

Alpha Centauri
Well not worse thing to happen overall, of course.

-AC

Afro Cheese
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't buy that safe-route "A lot of them do, a lot don't." More don't than the amount that do, it's a fact. Hence why it's such a financial problem.

If you download it and don't pay the band, you have their property on your computer that they should have your money for, they don't. How is there any attempt at justifying this? What good has the exposure done? Someone now has a copy of their album for free in a manner they do not wish to have it distributed. If that person didn't know about them, they're not gaining, but they're not losing. If someone knows about them, steals their album and doesn't pay them, what do they get? Nothing. They LOSE an album sale. "Hey! I love your band!" "Sweet! Got our album?" "Yeah...downloaded it." "Wha-what? Dude, buy it." "Why? What's the point?" "Support us." "I am, go you guys!" Yeah, doesn't do much. Your logic is extremely flawed.The point is they are gaining sales through file sharing. It's not justifying people who download and don't buy the album, I was just saying that in most cases with obscure bands those people wouldn't have bought the album anyway, and neither would others who actually do support the band cause none of them would've known about them.
As far as album sales goes, it's exactly the same.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
The point is they are gaining sales through file sharing. It's not justifying people who download and don't buy the album, I was just saying that in most cases with obscure bands those people wouldn't have bought the album anyway, and neither would others who actually do support the band cause none of them would've known about them.

As far as album sales goes, it's exactly the same.

You're making a redundant point. Ok yes, it's possible and factual that some people illegally download and then go pay for the album. Right, what's the point? You said it was better for the band if someone illegally downloaded and DIDN'T pay than if they didn't know the band at all. This is false. As I have proven.

Secondly, no it's not. If someone has a copy of their album illegally downloaded that they didn't pay for, it makes no sales difference as in, they haven't sold one. It makes financial difference, which is bad. You're making redundant points. You think the band earns money off burned copies or something? If 5 kids each legally buy an album and share it among their friends, who share it among their friends, who then upload it to Kazaa or Soulseek or whatever, do you have any idea how bad that affects record sales?

Apparantly the answer is no, you do not.

-AC

#16
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not actually wrong, both proving you and your following claim wrong. Though I'll allow this to continue.



That was a reasonably well known artist though, it wasn't an indie artist was it? He wasn't going around struggling, getting music fans to come to his shows. He was famous for many things in the lower end of the mainstream circuit.



Go on...waiting for your point here. Comparing "MC's" who can afford to have a mouthful of platinum to a band touring their hometown and surrounding areas in a van, struggling to make profit because they have to pay their label and compensate for "fans" stealing from them, isn't a good way to go, but continue.



I swear reading your posts is like watching a bunch of dudes trying to hump a keyboard. All that comes out is a mess and letters.

If your GOAL is to be famous (successful is different) then whoring yourself is what you do, and it's a disgrace. All those American Idol esque people.

MF Doom is successful, Cannibal Ox are successful. On the other hand, Radiohead are successful, Metallica are one of the biggest selling bands of all time and they reached that point before any of the Load stuff happened (which doesn't matter to me anyway), on a major. Opeth had 7 albums on various indie labels from 96 to 2005 before they signed to a major and nothing bad has happened. Infact, they even had bad cases with their indie label claiming rights to songs.

Majors may be, in comparison, worse overall than indie labels, but that's not always the case. Majors get a bad rep and indies get a better rep than they sometimes deserve. Infact, that's where a lot of the worst rip offs happen.

-AC

damn AC are you agreeing or disagreeing with me???

when you say indie artist, wtf do you mean? an artist who is signed to an independent label (like rap-a-lot records) or are you talking about unsigned artists who distribute their own shit and mostly do gigs and open mic nights?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by #16
damn AC are you agreeing or disagreeing with me???

when you say indie artist, wtf do you mean? an artist who is signed to an independent label (like rap-a-lot records) or are you talking about unsigned artists who distribute their own shit and mostly do gigs and open mic nights?

Why are you asking when it's all in the post? Read it again, it's all there.

What do you think I mean when I say indie artist? If I meant unsigned I'd say unsigned.

-AC

Afro Cheese
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You said it was better for the band if someone illegally downloaded and DIDN'T pay than if they didn't know the band at all. No, I never said that.

It doesn't really make a financial difference unless the person in question would've bought the album if it weren't for illegal file sharing. In most cases, with indie bads, they would not have.

#16
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why are you asking when it's all in the post? Read it again, it's all there.

What do you think I mean when I say indie artist? If I meant unsigned I'd say unsigned.

-AC

^damn son youre vague

ok then why the hell you think theyre struggling? once an independent artist sells 20,000 units theyre set. believe me 20k is very easy to sell with the help of a little promotion(file sharing). i know this cat from QB he's the exec. producer for Poet's new album and he told me that once an album pushes that kind of numbers its all good because it only takes 30k to produce an album. in fact, theyre doing an album launch in fat beats,nyc next week... all my ny heads, holla @ me for details.

hunypot5
I like a couple artists:
1.)Amy Kuney
2.) Eisley
3.) Ashlee Simpson
4.) Rihanna
5.) Thrice

These are all different genres....but those are my top 5 bands!

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
No, I never said that.

You:

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Even the ones who DON'T pay the band in any way whatsoever are only denying them of a profit they wouldn't have had a chance at without file sharing anyway. None of these people would have heard of this band if their music wasn't freely distributed throughout the internet and promoted on forums like this one. They basically would've been limited to the select few who'd be willing to purchase an album based on a review or audioclip from the band's website.

A profit they wouldn't have had a chance at were it not for file sharing? So you're saying just because this person COULD have chose to pay for it, but didn't, it's a plus because they discovered the band and COULD have paid them profit? Clarify yourself if this isn't what you mean. If it is, then what I said previously still stands.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
It doesn't really make a financial difference unless the person in question would've bought the album if it weren't for illegal file sharing. In most cases, with indie bads, they would not have.

What are you talking about? If people illegally download but then buy the album, fine. I've said this, why continue drilling the point? There's no oil here, slick.

If you download illegally, you are not allowing the artist to get the profit they deserve, unless you then buy the CD.

Originally posted by #16
^damn son youre vague

There's nothing vague about that massive post I just did. It's spelled out as clear as day. If you can't grasp it, shame.

Originally posted by #16
ok then why the hell you think theyre struggling? once an independent artist sells 20,000 units theyre set. believe me 20k is very easy to sell with the help of a little promotion(file sharing). i know this cat from QB he's the exec. producer for Poet's new album and he told me that once an album pushes that kind of numbers its all good because it only takes 30k to produce an album. in fact, theyre doing an album launch in fat beats,nyc next week... all my ny heads, holla @ me for details.

They're set? For what? What are you even getting at? Illegal downloading is stopping an artist getting their pay, which they deserve, for the work they created. End of story, it needn't go further. You're getting into all kinds of irrelevant bs.

This isn't about producers.

-AC

#16
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
They're set? For what? What are you even getting at? Illegal downloading is stopping an artist getting their pay, which they deserve, for the work they created. End of story, it needn't go further. You're getting into all kinds of irrelevant bs.

This isn't about producers.

-AC

im saying theyre set. theyre set meaning they getting profit. tell me 80k is small amount.

for the nth time, file sharing is promotion. an artist cant survive without that. yes they losing potential money from illegal downloads but theyre also benefitting from it. why the f*ck do you think nike paid lebron james 90 million to endorse them? that's 90 mill that theyre risking not seeing again but theyre taking a risk because they are thinking about the reward in the long run.

i told you what my dude told me because he's somebody that knows the ins and outs of the industry, especially the independent side of the biz. compared to you saying a rapper needs to reach gold to see profit (lol) i think he knows better.

peace

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by #16
im saying theyre set. theyre set meaning they getting profit. tell me 80k is small amount.

Yes and where did I say they're NOT getting profit? Nowhere. Where did I say that illegal file sharing without purchasing the albums as a result, gets them less profit than they should have? Everywhere. Good, we can move on.

As an aside: 80K is nice to look at, but you give that to someone in the real world and after bills and other essentials, plus indulgences, you aren't going to have much. 80K is nothing in today's society.

Originally posted by #16
for the nth time, file sharing is promotion. an artist cant survive without that.

Factually incorrect. That said, all you know is hip hop. We're talking about illegal file sharing without any attempt to pay for the goods. Not downloading and then going out and paying the money. Pay attention.

Originally posted by #16
yes they losing potential money from illegal downloads but theyre also benefitting from it. why the f*ck do you think nike paid lebron james 90 million to endorse them? that's 90 mill that theyre risking not seeing again but theyre taking a risk because they are thinking about the reward in the long run.

How did Lebron James of the NBA and his Nike contract come into this? Try to stay on point please. Nothing to do with anything at all.

Secondly, how are they benefitting from losing money? Go on, this should be good. You tell me how they are benefitting from losing money from illegal downloads.

Originally posted by #16
i told you what my dude told me because he's somebody that knows the ins and outs of the industry, especially the independent side of the biz. compared to you saying a rapper needs to reach gold to see profit (lol) i think he knows better.

peace

I was referring to medium sized bands and musicians still on indie labels, not people who are known within their city and have their friends and family supporting their shit while they're on a label that's probably produced out of a basement.

You can "think" whoever knows better and think what you want, the FACT is, you clearly don't know much.

-AC

#16
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Factually incorrect. That said, all you know is hip hop. We're talking about illegal file sharing without any attempt to pay for the goods. Not downloading and then going out and paying the money. Pay attention.



How did Lebron James of the NBA and his Nike contract come into this? Try to stay on point please. Nothing to do with anything at all.

Secondly, how are they benefitting from losing money? Go on, this should be good. You tell me how they are benefitting from losing money from illegal downloads.



I was referring to medium sized bands and musicians still on indie labels, not people who are known within their city and have their friends and family supporting their shit while they're on a label that's probably produced out of a basement.

You can "think" whoever knows better and think what you want, the FACT is, you clearly don't know much.

-AC

^ok my bad for assuming people will buy an album they dl'd because they like it. id give you that.

i referred lebron to show you the concept of risk/reward between file sharing.For example: 'Bron appearing in mags holding a pair of shoes wit nike logos will catch people's attention but nothing is assured that they will buy his shoes, ya feel me? lol you think A&R's dont leak theyre artists album? some artists are just not going to get any burn from any radio station (even independent ones) no matter what they do... so for them, one of their options is leaking the album on the net and hope people will like it enough to buy it.

lol from the way you described your idea of an indie artist it will be a surprise if people would even care enough to bootleg them

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by #16
i referred lebron to show you the concept of risk/reward between file sharing. 'Bron appearing in mags holding a pair of shoes wit nike logos will catch people's attention but nothing is assured that they will buy his shoes, ya feel me?

Yeah, and Nike pay for those advertisments to appear in magazines. It's all contractual. Those files aren't meant to be on the net, that's why it's what we call "illegal". I thought even you knew this.

Originally posted by #16
lol you think A&R's dont leak theyre artists album? some artists are just not going to get any burn from any radio station (even independent ones) no matter what they do... so for them, one of their options is leaking the album on the net and hope people will like it enough to buy it.

From where did you extract this theory? Because it is arguably the stupidest idea I've ever heard.

Any artist that willingly says "Here's our hard work, illegally download it" deserve everything they get. Half the time they end up complaining as they move on and need the money. I'm in defense of people who DON'T ask to get their music put on the net, who DON'T ask to get ripped off. Yes, leaks happen sometimes whether the artist wants it to or not, which is when YOU as the listener should take the responsibility to say "Ok, if I'm gonna download this, I'm gonna buy it if I like it. If I don't like it I'm going to delete it and not ***** about disliking it because I've lost nothing at all."

Originally posted by #16
lol from the way you described your idea of an indie artist it will be a surprise if people would even care enought to bootleg them

Wasn't the way I described it, it was the way you interpreted it.

-AC

#16
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
From where did you extract this theory? Because it is arguably the stupidest idea I've ever heard.

Any artist that willingly says "Here's our hard work, illegally download it" deserve everything they get. Half the time they end up complaining as they move on and need the money. I'm in defense of people who DON'T ask to get their music put on the net, who DON'T ask to get ripped off. Yes, leaks happen sometimes whether the artist wants it to or not, which is when YOU as the listener should take the responsibility to say "Ok, if I'm gonna download this, I'm gonna buy it if I like it. If I don't like it I'm going to delete it and not ***** about disliking it because I've lost nothing at all."



Wasn't the way I described it, it was the way you interpreted it.

-AC

^that wasnt a theory, i know a few a&r's who leak their artists albums to create some buzz. real talk. how the hell do you think i get retail copies of albums 2 days before they get dropped. keyword here is A&R's not the artist, therefore they dont know what the f is happenin.

"Yes, leaks happen sometimes whether the artist wants it to or not, which is when YOU as the listener should take the responsibility to say "Ok, if I'm gonna download this, I'm gonna buy it if I like it. If I don't like it I'm going to delete it and not ***** about disliking it because I've lost nothing at all."

that's my attitude when downloading albums son, trust.

hey you probably have tons of cds? mind taking a pic and posting it here? ill do mine if you do yours.

Afro Cheese
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You:



A profit they wouldn't have had a chance at were it not for file sharing? So you're saying just because this person COULD have chose to pay for it, but didn't, it's a plus because they discovered the band and COULD have paid them profit? Clarify yourself if this isn't what you mean. If it is, then what I said previously still stands. I was saying basically that for indie artists the fans who do download but don't pay wouldn't have payed even if their was no illegal downloading. I'm not arguing this as a plus. They denied the band a profit, and that is wrong, but this problem would not be reversed if illegal downloading were not in existence cause in most cases these people still wouldn't have bought the album, especially with indie bands who really have little to no exposure. So it's not a plus that they downloaded their album, but in the long run it doesn't make a difference either way in terms of album sales. You can't assume this band would've been able to sell an album to everyone who was willing to download an album; they most certainly would not have.

Alpha Centauri
That was originally my point for crying out loud. All this time you've been harping the point "Hardcore downloaders won't change" which isn't my concern, per se. It's a small part of the whole picture, nobody really denied what you're saying.

Point, no I'd rather not do that.

-AC

Mišt
sleeping

White Stripes - Seven Nation Army

Bardock42
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
An excerpt from my new play, 'It Wasn't Actually All That Bad'.

Outside, in a concentration camp workyard, Jack and Jerry discuss life.


Jack: Even if we never leave this place- alive, at least- it's inevitable that history will learn from the mistakes being made today. This will never happen again, and in that small portion of good we have to find comfort.

Jerry: I still think this is the worst thing to happen in the history of mankind.

Jack: Whoa whoa whoa. Have all the majors fallen?

Jerry: G-good point.
I smell Bullshit

Just how likely do you think it is that a "Jack" and a "Jerry" talk outside of a concentration Camp.
Maybe a Schlomo and a Jakob....although even then....it's called workyard..not talkyard.

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Bardock42
I smell Bullshit

Just how likely do you think it is that a "Jack" and a "Jerry" talk outside of a concentration Camp.
Maybe a Schlomo and a Jakob....although even then....it's called workyard..not talkyard.

They're subverting it from the inside via the art of conversational time-wasting.

The names are artistic licence.


N.B. It's not real.

lalalander
well, there's NO WAY for me to be able to post all of my favorite music.
those Final Fantasy movies/games songs are great..Weird Al..Daft Punk...Pink Floyd..hellogoodbye..soo many others!!

Because I can
You cant just have ONE piece of fav music ( shuttup, you still understand me)...
Always LOTS, never one. big grin

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