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Ok from first/1(weakest) to last/10(most powerful)
let's see how far he get's, or does he surpass them all?


1. Dr Fate - with the Spear of Destiny

2. Darkseid - with the full power of the Anti-Life Equation

3. Reed Richards - with the Ultimate Nullifier

4. Adam Warlock - with the Infinity Gauntlet

5. The Anti-Monitor - using his anti-monitor canon

6. Thanos - with the Heart of the Universe

7. Scarlet Witch - generating a Chaos Wave directly at him (by accident or design)

8. The White Phoenix of the Crown - giving it everything she's got

9. Michael & Lucifer - as one

10. TOAA/Presence/Great Evil Beast - which ever one since their all equal

possibly 3 or 4..

i mean isnt he just a cosmic cube?

infinity gauntlet> cosmic cube

classic beyonder was not a cosmic cube, he was probably the most powerful being seen in marvel to date {even greater than wanda with the chaos wave}

n this list is flawed, the spear of destiny is more powerful than the white crown phoenix.

anyway, he beats the white crown phoenix, darksied, reed, adam, the anti monitor, thanos{probably but theres room for doubt} and the chaos wave, but from his feats, dies by the spear of destiny, lucifer, micheal or presence, toaa etc.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
classic beyonder was not a cosmic cube, he was probably the most powerful being seen in marvel to date {even greater than wanda with the chaos wave}

n this list is flawed, the spear of destiny is more powerful than the white crown phoenix.

anyway, he beats the white crown phoenix, darksied, reed, adam, the anti monitor, thanos{probably but theres room for doubt} and the chaos wave, but from his feats, dies by the spear of destiny, lucifer, micheal or presence, toaa etc.

Get a life you disturbed individual. Your hate for Phoenix/GS is pathetic

Beyonder had a good imagnation he wasn't that powerful.He was a God in his own mind.

bleh why is he being posted on a thread! he's to powerful! he had power sevel times that of the multiverse combined do you think he gets past the gauntlet?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Get a life you disturbed individual. Your hate for Phoenix/GS is pathetic


lol, poor poor gs. i LOVE the phoenix and jean as characters, they have some of the best comics in marvel. i only dislike IDIOTS, idoiots like yourself. phoenix loses GET OVER IT. the original beyonder could have destroyed the multiverse easily if he wanted{proven fact as both reed richards and the celestials BELIEVED and stated it} go to some other forums to try ur pathetic tricks on some newbies kid.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
possibly 3 or 4..

i mean isnt he just a cosmic cube?

infinity gauntlet> cosmic cube

Classic Beyonder is the character from Secret Wars, yes the one that destroyed a galaxy for starterswith a thought,(on panel) and yes the one that Professor X said(on panel)Galactus was Less than an insect next to him.

We later learn he had the power of many multi-verses combined.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
classic beyonder was not a cosmic cube, he was probably the most powerful being seen in marvel to date {even greater than wanda with the chaos wave}

n this list is flawed, the spear of destiny is more powerful than the white crown phoenix.

anyway, he beats the white crown phoenix, darksied, reed, adam, the anti monitor, thanos{probably but theres room for doubt} and the chaos wave, but from his feats, dies by the spear of destiny, lucifer, micheal or presence, toaa etc.

I'am not sure about that, the Spear is without doubt super powerful, as it proved against mighty Spectre(he was nearly killed by someone swinging it at him)
in retrospect, I should of probably put it higher, the thing is the Spear's total power is debatable, we know if it's used as a melee weapon it can kill Spectre, but as far as it giving the wielder universe or even galaxy scale control, where not sure, which is why I placed it first, cause I don't think anyone is getting close enough to Beyonder to use it, the Spear itself is indestructible.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Get a life you disturbed individual. Your hate for Phoenix/GS is pathetic

I don't know what that's all about, but if you disagree with the man, make your case and tell us why.

Originally posted by golem370
Beyonder had a good imagnation he wasn't that powerful.He was a God in his own mind.

Debate!

Meaningless opinions will make your post obselete.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol, poor poor gs. i LOVE the phoenix and jean as characters, they have some of the best comics in marvel. i only dislike IDIOTS, idoiots like yourself. phoenix loses GET OVER IT. the original beyonder could have destroyed the multiverse easily if he wanted{proven fact as both reed richards and the celestials BELIEVED and stated it} go to some other forums to try ur pathetic tricks on some newbies kid.

Your being a little harsh on this GS guy, he has the right to prove he's right(doesn't mean he is ofcourse), but your right about Beyonder, although the White Phoenix of the Crown can destroy the multi-verse aswell, my argument that Beyonder must have been more powerful cause without a doubt he was more powerful than the marvel multi-verse combined(on panel), and I posted before that 616 universe in comparison with the sum total of the universe he was, was like a Drop of water in an ocean,(on panel) - should I type this again.

beyonder from secret wars 2 has beaten the shit out f celestials so don't tell me he is not powerfull

1. Dr Fate - with the Spear of Destiny

2. Darkseid - with the full power of the Anti-Life Equation

3. Reed Richards - with the Ultimate Nullifier

4. Adam Warlock - with the Infinity Gauntlet

5. The Anti-Monitor - using his anti-monitor canon

6. Thanos - with the Heart of the Universe

7. Scarlet Witch - generating a Chaos Wave directly at him (by accident or design)

8. The White Phoenix of the Crown - giving it everything she's got

9. Michael & Lucifer - as one

10. TOAA/Presence/Great Evil Beast - which ever one since their all equal
thanos with hotu should be in the 10th place because he destroyed the marvel universe and no one can beat him didn' you know that?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
1. Dr Fate - with the Spear of Destiny

2. Darkseid - with the full power of the Anti-Life Equation

3. Reed Richards - with the Ultimate Nullifier

4. Adam Warlock - with the Infinity Gauntlet

5. The Anti-Monitor - using his anti-monitor canon

6. Thanos - with the Heart of the Universe

7. Scarlet Witch - generating a Chaos Wave directly at him (by accident or design)

8. The White Phoenix of the Crown - giving it everything she's got

9. Michael & Lucifer - as one

10. TOAA/Presence/Great Evil Beast - which ever one since their all equal
thanos with hotu should be in the 10th place because he destroyed the marvel universe and no one can beat him didn' you know that?

Wrong!

1. Scarlet Witch is infront of him because when she generated the chaos wave could have destroyed the entire multi-verse and possibly could of destroyed even the White Hot Room(where the White Phoenix of the Crown presides, where everything begins and ends in the marvel universe.
HOTU can't do that.

2. The Morningstar brothers are infront of him because together they nearly equal the Presence, and they have created a multi-verse already.
HOTU can't do that.

3. TOAA/Presence/Great Evil Beast are definately above him, since they can create beings who can build multi-verses from scratch.
HOTU can't do that.

Ok charlie don't be so quick to jump the gun, research then debate.

Ey look at the bright side, atleast now you know.

How is he gonna get pass Mr. Fantastic with the Ultimate Nullifier? Galactus was scared of it.

Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way (he does not see the other characters as real people). He easily vanished away Living Tribunal and scared off the host. He could just ensure that none of the gauntlet opposers ever existed or encase them in their own personal universes. The point of Beyonder is that he is the ultimate god character

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't know what that's all about, but if you disagree with the man, make your case and tell us why.

Leon has a well known habit of taking it personally when you disagree with him and god forbid you prove him wrong .

Ive happened to do both on many occassions in the past which is why you'll find him searching out my posts when he logs on and putting down anything Phoenix related. Quite sad really

Originally posted by Pepito
Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way (he does not see the other characters as real people). He easily vanished away Living Tribunal and scared off the host. He could just ensure that none of the gauntlet opposers ever existed or encase them in their own personal universes. The point of Beyonder is that he is the ultimate god character

The thing about the Beyonder though is that regardless of all the claims thrown around about him (mostly by himself) he has no on panel feats to back them up. Thats the crux of the matter. So while he may very well have been intended to be the ultimate power, there have been characters/powers introduced since then that have performed far better ON PANEL feats. Its the nature of comics to introduce bigger and better characters as time goes on so with no impressive demonstrations of power (in comparison to the likes of Phoenix, HOTU, IG etc) how are we to know how his power compares to them? You cant conclusively say he'll trump such powers when he has no on panel feats to verify such an opinion. Unsupported character claims just dont cut it and with the retcon in place we'll never know.

i highly doudt that any other comic character has ever been stated ON PANEL to have power several hundred times that of the multiverse combined.

THANOS WITH HOTU KILLED AL MARVEL CHARACTERS

doesnt matter i dont think even TOAA has several hundred times the power of the multiverse combined if he did he wouldnt have died recreating it in thanos the end while thanos himself was TOAA.

Originally posted by Pepito
Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way (he does not see the other characters as real people). He easily vanished away Living Tribunal and scared off the host. He could just ensure that none of the gauntlet opposers ever existed or encase them in their own personal universes. The point of Beyonder is that he is the ultimate god character Big key point being overlooked in this if Stan Lee himself said such a thing then well its true if he said Beyonder is like Marvel writers in term of power then he is and can do whatever he wants.

Originally posted by newjak86
Big key point being overlooked in this if Stan Lee himself said such a thing then well its true if he said Beyonder is like Marvel writers in term of power then he is and can do whatever he wants.

He said that at the time. Thats the key point, in his time he was arguably the most powerful character created by Marvel. However with the bigger and better trend for cosmic powers with the progression of time and the fact that all his claims were never supported on panel by actual feats you cant assume or conclusively support the opinion that he was more powerful than the likes of IG, HOTU and Phoenix in their appearances because they too have hyped up to similar levels by character comments but in addition to that they have actual on panel feats to back them up, Beyonder doesnt, regardless of whats suggested or claimed. All we have to go are on panel feats, thats all we have to back up our opinions, not character claims, hyperbole and boasts( which noone can disprove Beyonders claims to be). Forget unsupported character claims and general speculation, feats wise hes trumped by a number of powers.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He said that at the time. Thats the key point, in his time he was arguably the most powerful character created by Marvel. However with the bigger and better trend for cosmic powers with the progression of time and the fact that all his claims were never supported on panel by actual feats you cant assume or conclusively support the opinion that he was more powerful than the likes of IG, HOTU and Phoenix in their appearances because they too have hyped up to similar levels by character comments but in addition to that they have actual on panel feats to back them up, Beyonder doesnt, regardless of whats suggested or claimed. All we have to go are on panel feats, thats all we have to back up our opinions, not character claims, hyperbole and boasts( which noone can disprove Beyonders claims to be). Forget unsupported character claims and general speculation, feats wise hes trumped by a number of powers. Yes I can as it says Classic Beyonder who Stan Lee said was able to do whatever he wanted. On Panel feats yeah sure I think I'll take the word of Stan Lee over any comics anyday.

Originally posted by Darth Kal-El
How is he gonna get pass Mr. Fantastic with the Ultimate Nullifier? Galactus was scared of it.

Galactus is literally an insect next to Beyonder, according to Professor X atleast.

Galactus the insect.jpg

sorry about that, here it is.

Originally posted by Pepito
Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way (he does not see the other characters as real people). He easily vanished away Living Tribunal and scared off the host. He could just ensure that none of the gauntlet opposers ever existed or encase them in their own personal universes. The point of Beyonder is that he is the ultimate god character

Wow, that's very interesting.

I see the sense in it, is that a fact though, "Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way",
that's dope.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The thing about the Beyonder though is that regardless of all the claims thrown around about him (mostly by himself) he has no on panel feats to back them up. Thats the crux of the matter. So while he may very well have been intended to be the ultimate power, there have been characters/powers introduced since then that have performed far better ON PANEL feats. Its the nature of comics to introduce bigger and better characters as time goes on so with no impressive demonstrations of power (in comparison to the likes of Phoenix, HOTU, IG etc) how are we to know how his power compares to them? You cant conclusively say he'll trump such powers when he has no on panel feats to verify such an opinion. Unsupported character claims just dont cut it and with the retcon in place we'll never know.

Please tell me what on panel demonstartions you want?

Mider and I have factual statements on panel verifying the Beyonder as having power greater than the multi-verse combined and even beyond that, on panel, Beyonder quoting himself and the narrator saying it also, now I believe the narrator is really the writer, and the writer has the same authority over characters as does the one who wrote about Phoenix holding the multi-verse in her hand.
What's the difference between the writer that wrote Beyonder is more powerful than several multi-verses combined and the writer who wrote Phoenix can contain the multi-verse from it falling apart I don't know.

The fact is that there is no difference, now if Beyonder alone would have made those claims I would side with you on the possibility it was just empty boasts or bravado, but since it was the writer himself who wrote on panel that Beyonder was more powerful than the multi-verse combined and beyond, I must except it as valid proof of the Beyonder's capacity.

Originally posted by Mider
i highly doudt that any other comic character has ever been stated ON PANEL to have power several hundred times that of the multiverse combined.

Absolutely none has, at most characters have been giving powers to affect a multi-verse, but more than that someone would have to show me proof on panel.

Originally posted by Mider
doesnt matter i dont think even TOAA has several hundred times the power of the multiverse combined if he did he wouldnt have died recreating it in thanos the end while thanos himself was TOAA.

You know where on the same page, I was just about to say something to that affect.

Only I don't think Thanos had the exact amount of power TOAA had, I think Thanos was just slightly bellow, due to the fact that he was able to offset everything Thanos did, even though it took his life.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He said that at the time. Thats the key point, in his time he was arguably the most powerful character created by Marvel. However with the bigger and better trend for cosmic powers with the progression of time and the fact that all his claims were never supported on panel by actual feats you cant assume or conclusively support the opinion that he was more powerful than the likes of IG, HOTU and Phoenix in their appearances because they too have hyped up to similar levels by character comments but in addition to that they have actual on panel feats to back them up, Beyonder doesnt, regardless of whats suggested or claimed. All we have to go are on panel feats, thats all we have to back up our opinions, not character claims, hyperbole and boasts( which noone can disprove Beyonders claims to be). Forget unsupported character claims and general speculation, feats wise hes trumped by a number of powers.

I'm starting to understand where your ignorance about the Beyonder stems from, you haven't seen or read all of the comics Beyonder appeared in during his pre-retcon stage have you?
I'm sure of it or else you would not say that.
Many make this mistake and consider Beyonder's limits to Secret Wars titles I-II-III but actually there where so many more, a plethora of feats, you kidding me, you gotta look into Beyonder to realize the magnitute of his power.

For every issue of Secret Wars II & III there are 3 - 5 other titles that follow up in it's continuation, this is where many great displays of his power took place. Titles from Hulk to FF - Dr Strange - Alpah Flight - Spiderman, I mean it goes on and on, he appeared and exhibited tramendous abilities in every other title out at the time.

So you gotta get your hands on these, research and be amazed.

note: at the end of each Secret Wars II & III title issue(last page)it tells you what issues to continue in,

eg. Secret War II #1 from there if you want to continue the series completely you would have get New Mutants #30 - Captain America #308 - X-Men #196 and Iron Man #197, Beyonder appears in all four of these titles and demonstrates so many feats that it's rediculous, and every other Secret Wars title is the same, continuing in several other issues.
I mean Marvel writers where given all the freedom with him, to exploit omnipotence in all it's forms, just remebered that funny scene(yes on panel)where he has every particle, bacteria, germ and being and inanimate object in the universe bowing down to him, they actually drew bacteria bowing down to him, lol. dope.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
THANOS WITH HOTU KILLED AL MARVEL CHARACTERS

yea but he couldn't kill anything beyond the multi-verse.

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes I can as it says Classic Beyonder who Stan Lee said was able to do whatever he wanted. On Panel feats yeah sure I think I'll take the word of Stan Lee over any comics anyday.

The key factor is when Stan Lee said that as i said in my previous post. Forgive me if im wrong but he said that before the arrival of all the powers with greater feats came along, which is the crux of the matter. The IG has been said to give control over all aspects of the comic book universe as well and since the IG bigger and better showings have occurred on panel in its time and thats my point. Theres a constant progression, characters get more powerful with time and anything the Beyonder has done has been trumped by the powers ive mentioned. Classic Beyonder may very well have been hot stuff in his day but since then powers have arrived who have performed better feats than him. Stan Lee saying back in the day Beyonder represented the writers giving him total control over the universe is cool,but similar things have been said about the powers ive mentioned and at least they have the feats to back up the hype.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Please tell me what on panel demonstartions you want?

Mider and I have factual statements on panel verifying the Beyonder as having power greater than the multi-verse combined and even beyond that, on panel, Beyonder quoting himself and the narrator saying it also, now I believe the narrator is really the writer, and the writer has the same authority over characters as does the one who wrote about Phoenix holding the multi-verse in her hand.
What's the difference between the writer that wrote Beyonder is more powerful than several multi-verses combined and the writer who wrote Phoenix can contain the multi-verse from it falling apart I don't know.

The fact is that there is no difference, now if Beyonder alone would have made those claims I would side with you on the possibility it was just empty boasts or bravado, but since it was the writer himself who wrote on panel that Beyonder was more powerful than the multi-verse combined and beyond, I must except it as valid proof of the Beyonder's capacity.

Demonstrations superior to those of the IG, HOTU and Phoenix. Dont trouble yourself because i know he doesnt have them.

Ok, thats cool, can you post a scan of the whole page where that is stated. That could settle the matter, if its stated exactly how you say it is.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm starting to understand where your ignorance about the Beyonder stems from, you haven't seen or read all of the comics Beyonder appeared in during his pre-retcon stage have you?
I'm sure of it or else you would not say that.
Many make this mistake and consider Beyonder's limits to Secret Wars titles I-II-III but actually there where so many more, a plethora of feats, you kidding me, you gotta look into Beyonder to realize the magnitute of his power.

For every issue of Secret Wars II & III there are 3 - 5 other titles that follow up in it's continuation, this is where many great displays of his power took place. Titles from Hulk to FF - Dr Strange - Alpah Flight - Spiderman, I mean it goes on and on, he appeared and exhibited tramendous abilities in every other title out at the time.

So you gotta get your hands on these, research and be amazed.

note: at the end of each Secret Wars II & III title issue(last page)it tells you what issues to continue in,

eg. Secret War II #1 from there if you want to continue the series completely you would have get New Mutants #30 - Captain America #308 - X-Men #196 and Iron Man #197, Beyonder appears in all four of these titles and demonstrates so many feats that it's rediculous, and every other Secret Wars title is the same, continuing in several other issues.
I mean Marvel writers where given all the freedom with him, to exploit omnipotence in all it's forms, just remebered that funny scene(yes on panel)where he has every particle, bacteria, germ and being and inanimate object in the universe bowing down to him, they actually drew bacteria bowing down to him, lol. dope.

You presume too much Mr M. I have all of Secret Wars titles and have most of Beyonder's Pre and Post retcon appearances, so dont you worry about me not being clued up. I just dont agree with what youre saying thats all. He just doesnt have the feats to back up his and your claims. Nothing hes done on panel, no output of power comes close to the top showings of the aforementioned powers.

If you can tell me what issue the narrator apparrently said the multiverse thing then i can obtain scans and refresh my memory. If its exactly as you've said then thats cool, if not then you have nothing conclusive to go on and Classic Beyonder simply cannot be classed beyond the likes of the IG because not only have similar claims been made about it in its day, but in addition its backed up those claims with high level feats. Beyonder never did.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You presume too much Mr M. I have all of Secret Wars titles and have most of Beyonder's Pre and Post retcon appearances, so dont you worry about me not being clued up. I just dont agree with what youre saying thats all. He just doesnt have the feats to back up his and your claims. Nothing hes done on panel, no output of power comes close to the top showings of the aforementioned powers.

If you can tell me what issue the narrator apparrently said the multiverse thing then i can obtain scans and refresh my memory. If its exactly as you've said then thats cool, if not then you have nothing conclusive to go on and Classic Beyonder simply cannot be classed beyond the likes of the IG because not only have similar claims been made about it in its day, but in addition its backed up those claims with high level feats. Beyonder never did.

Ok let's get started,

Should of prepared myself for retaliation scans, lol.
Ok I'll start by negating the Infinity Gauntlet and work my way up.
The Infinity Gauntlet gives it's wielder complete control of the 616 universe, it's power is on a universal scale,(pretty impressive), one universe at a time at best, correct? Yes.
Now here's a scan from ironically Secret Wars II title #1, first page top column, here the narrator/writer tells us that our universe(616)was a droplet of water to an ocean in comparison with the universe the Beyonder was.
This is evidence that the IG was literally nothing to the Beyonder, unless your going to say that even though the IG can only affect a universe the size of a drop of water, it will somehow manage to affect a universe the size of an ocean in comparison.
But you seem smart from your posts so I believe you'l agree the Infinity Gauntlet was less than nothing to Beyonder, well not nothing about a drop of water.

Here's a better scan Galactic Storm.

Our universe is a drop of water to an ocean in comparison with the universe the Beyonder was.

http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=secretwarsii001012gc.jpg

One down.

how is he gonna beat TOAA??

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok let's get started,

Should of prepared myself for retaliation scans, lol.
Ok I'll start by negating the Infinity Gauntlet and work my way up.
The Infinity Gauntlet gives it's wielder complete control of the 616 universe, it's power is on a universal scale,(pretty impressive), one universe at a time at best, correct? Yes.
Now here's a scan from ironically Secret Wars II title #1, first page top column, here the narrator/writer tells us that our universe(616)was a droplet of water to an ocean in comparison with the universe the Beyonder was.
This is evidence that the IG was literally nothing to the Beyonder, unless your going to say that even though the IG can only affect a universe the size of a drop of water, it will somehow manage to affect a universe the size of an ocean in comparison.
But you seem smart from your posts so I believe you'l agree the Infinity Gauntlet was less than nothing to Beyonder, well not nothing about a drop of water.

First off that scan was small as hell i gave myself a migraine trying to make out those words lol. Google "image shack", go to the site and then use it to post your images its a lot better.

Secondly thats nothing, thats far from conclusive. What is the narrator talking in terms of? For all we know it could be size, complexity a number of different things. It doesnt translate as Beyonder being beyond the power an IG wielder can employ.

On top of that the scan also makes it clear that Pre retcon Beyonder was a sentient universe NOT a multiverse. Thanks for clearing that up.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Here's a better scan Galactic Storm.

Our universe is a drop of water to an ocean in comparison with the universe the Beyonder was.

http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=secretwarsii001012gc.jpg

U beat me to it!!

Originally posted by Mr Master
One down.

You presume too much MM. Lets not get ahead of ourselves

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You presume too much Mr M. I have all of Secret Wars titles and have most of Beyonder's Pre and Post retcon appearances, so dont you worry about me not being clued up. I just dont agree with what youre saying thats all. He just doesnt have the feats to back up his and your claims. Nothing hes done on panel, no output of power comes close to the top showings of the aforementioned powers.

If you can tell me what issue the narrator apparrently said the multiverse thing then i can obtain scans and refresh my memory. If its exactly as you've said then thats cool, if not then you have nothing conclusive to go on and Classic Beyonder simply cannot be classed beyond the likes of the IG because not only have similar claims been made about it in its day, but in addition its backed up those claims with high level feats. Beyonder never did.

Before I continue I'd like to know what you consider more powerful HOTU or White Phoenix?
So I can negate them in order, also in the meantime I'll make a collection of scans that will blow your mind with pre-retconned Beyonder feats.
Like when he had every particle, germ, bacteria, being(immortal & mortal)cosmic and deity, inorganic matter and inanimate object in the universe bowing down to him,(on panel) they actually drew bacteria bowing down to him, lol.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Before I continue I'd like to know what you consider more powerful HOTU or White Phoenix?
So I can negate them in order, also in the meantime I'll make a collection of scans that will blow your mind with pre-retconned Beyonder feats.
Like when he had every particle, germ, bacteria, being(immortal & mortal)cosmic and deity, inorganic matter and inanimate object in the universe bowing down to him,(on panel) they actually drew bacteria bowing down to him, lol.

Phoenix has better feats and wasnt one of the powers defeated or shown to be affected by it. So imo the White Crown Phoenix is beyond HOTU merely for those reasons.

Seriously, ive read all of Secret Wars, i have Secret Wars i can post scans for you lol. I know he hasnt performed a feat beyond the IG and certainly not beyond Phoenix or HOTU. Having all life bow down to you in a universe while impressive is trumped by the aforementioned powers.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
First off that scan was small as hell i gave myself a migraine trying to make out those words lol. Google "image shack", go to the site and then use it to post your images its a lot better.

Secondly thats nothing, thats far from conclusive. What is the narrator talking in terms of? For all we know it could be size, complexity a number of different things. It doesnt translate as Beyonder being beyond the power an IG wielder can employ.

On top of that the scan also makes it claer that Pre retcon Beyonder was a sentient universe NOT a multiverse. Thanks for clearing that up.

What?
Come on GS, don't border line fanboy now, you are a true debater, I respect the way you express yourself and reasonable arguments you produce, but now you've read it and saw it yourself and your searching for excuses.
Bottom line for the IG, it affects one universe at a time(616)to be exact, one universe that's a drop a water in comparison with Beyonder's.
Please don't try and go around this with philosophy and speculation, as a man of evident reason you must agree that the Infinity Gauntlet cannot affect a universe that's billions upon billions of time larger than 616. Hence the Beyonder must off possessed more energy than the IG could have ever dreamed of.

Like I said one down.

look at my other post.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix has better feats and wasnt one of the powers defeated or shown to be affected by it. So imo the White Crown Phoenix is beyond HOTU merely for those reasons.

Seriously, ive read all of Secret Wars, i have Secret Wars i can post scans for you lol. I know he hasnt performed a feat beyond the IG and certainly not beyond Phoenix or HOTU. Having all life bow down to you in a universe while impressive is trumped by the aforementioned powers.

Ok HOTU is next,

and by the way you say you've read and seen every pre-retcon Beyonder appearance, I suppose you have every continuation issue aswell, you know the 4 to 5 titles that every Secret Wars II -III title continue in, I gave you an example before.

did no one get my post i said that it was stated ON PANEL in secret wars 2 when beyonder died he released power several HUNDRED TIMES THAT OF THE COMBINED MULTIVERSE why is this debate going on still. If the brothers from DC vs Marvel were canon characters he would make them look like insects.

Originally posted by Mider
did no one get my post i said that it was stated ON PANEL in secret wars 2 when beyonder died he released power several HUNDRED TIMES THAT OF THE COMBINED MULTIVERSE why is this debate going on still. If the brothers from DC vs Marvel were canon characters he would make them look like insects.

Mider, my man please scan this for GS, I'm still managing my scans over here,
once GS sees that he will have no room for debate.
Cause I know neither the HOTU or Phoenix have the energy of several hundred multi-verses.

i dont have a scanner but i tell you the truth its in secret wars 2 when he dies his power was channeled back into his void universe the space he left when he left his universe and all his power was made into a brand new universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
What?
Come on GS, don't border line fanboy now, you are a true debater, I respect the way you express yourself and reasonable arguments you produce, but now you've read it and saw it yourself and your searching for excuses.
Bottom line for the IG, it affects one universe at a time(616)to be exact, one universe that's a drop a water in comparison with Beyonder's.
Please don't try and go around this with philosophy and speculation, as a man of evident reason you must agree that the Infinity Gauntlet cannot affect a universe that's billions upon billions of time larger than 616. Hence the Beyonder must off possessed more energy than the IG could have ever dreamed of.

Like I said one down.

Now isnt that all speculation?

True the IG has only been shown to affect one universe at a time but the same holds true for the Beyonder. Where has he applied his power simultaneously across multiple realities? I dont believe he has so thats a bit of a moot point.

The narrator makes no comments regarding comparative power held within the two universes and that is a fact. The only thing said is that 616 is a droplet compared to the ocean that is Beyonders universe. Are you not then speculating about what terms the writer is talking about when saying that?

Being bigger and/or more complex than 616 doesnt mean more power is held within it although that can be inferred. It is not a conclusive statement on the point we're debating on. Its a line open to interpretation and therefore nothing can be conclusively drawn from it and treated as fact in debate. Nothing to do with fanboyism and all to do with conclusive on panel evidence being the be all and end all in debates. Ambiguous statements from which multiple interpretations can be drawn from are not good enough. By what right can anyone say their interpretation is more true than anyone elses? Sorry MM

Originally posted by Mr Master
Mider, my man please scan this for GS, I'm still managing my scans over here,
once GS sees that he will have no room for debate.
Cause I know neither the HOTU or Phoenix have the energy of several hundred multi-verses.

And yet Beyonder does being merely a sentient universe?

Tell me the issue i'll scans up in 10 mins

last issue of secret wars 2 after he died.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Now isnt that all speculation?

True the IG has only been shown to affect one universe at a time but the same holds true for the Beyonder. Where has he applied his power simultaneously across multiple realities? I dont believe he has so thats a bit of a moot point.

The narrator makes no comments regarding comparative power held within the two universes and that is a fact. The only thing said is that 616 is a droplet compared to the ocean that is Beyonders universe. Are you not then speculating about what terms the writer is talking about when saying that?

Being bigger and/or more complex than 616 doesnt mean more power is held within it although that can be inferred. It is not a conclusive statement on the point we're debating on. Its a line open to interpretation and therefore nothing can be conclusively drawn from it and treated as fact in debate. Nothing to do with fanboyism and all to do with conclusive on panel evidence being the be all and end all in debates. Ambiguous statements from which multiple interpretations can be drawn from are not good enough. By what right can anyone say their interpretation is more true than anyone elses? Sorry MM

When I said the IG can only affect one universe at a time, I was clearifying it's scope of power, Beyonder's universe(I never said he was a multi-verse, just that his universe, which he was), contained the accumalated energy of several hundred multi-verses combined).
And as far as controlling multiple realities at once, that's an easy one, he did so when he had total control over our universe and his.
But we must remember there wasn't much out there back then, even if he had total dominion over the muti-verse, marvel writers saw it as meaninless to represent that since nothing to interesting was happening across the multi-verse, pocket dimensions had more significance than the mutti-verse back then, nowadays you have characters across all the myriad borders of time and space, which leads to a more interesting story involving these multi-versal areas of space.
And I don't know how you see speculation deriving from what the writer said,
A Praying Mantis can kill any cockroach on earth, a lethal killer in the insect world with a length of about 5 -7 inches and tramendous strength in comparrison with it's size, would I be assuming that a Praying Mantis cannot even be noticed let alone kill a Blue Whale?
No, it's common sense.
Now if the 616universe to Beyonder's universe was like a Lion a Cape Buffalo, I would say it's possible considering a Lions state of hunger to make a desperate attempt at attacking a Cape Buffalo and actually killing it.
But I'm sorry when I consider the size diffference between 616 and Beyonder's universe, one must logically yes assume, that it contained more energy to an unimaginable degree.

Your not easy, and this is just the IG, I'm gonna have hell in trying to out do HOTU and Phoenix. lol.

Originally posted by Mider
last issue of secret wars 2 after he died.

Thank you Mider.

Originally posted by Mider
last issue of secret wars 2 after he died.

Wow it seems the GS dude was shut down, after you let him know where to find the answer he never knew, he disapeared, silento, bafflement of the senses, lol
It's good to be right.

long live pre-retcon Beyonder - the most powerful being ever to exist period, on any plane of reality across time and space the multi-verse it'self and beyond.

This questiuon has been pondered upon for a long time and now we know the truth.

he shouldnt have had such a lame ending or life or recon

Originally posted by Mider
he shouldnt have had such a lame ending or life or recon

I absolutely agree, I loved the whole concept behind the Beyonder's existence, to have "God's" power, but without multi-versal awareness, it's great and it's the only all powerful character that can relate to the average joe, this is why it was such a fantastic story, other all powerful beings become boring quickly, but there are some who's purpose is fascinatingly interesting, Classic Beyonder was one of them.

Still, atleast his legacy will remain for all time as the most powerful being ever to be created, as we have proven.
Everyone says we have never seen TOAA r the Presence, who cares when we saw someone possibly many times more powerful.

Well Mider you have come on greatly as a debater! YOu provided evidence as well I salute you!

oh man . . . this will NOT end well . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
oh man . . . this will NOT end well . . .

I am finding it so hard to control myself Leo, but I must

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I am finding it so hard to control myself Leo, but I must

JLAKMC Assemble!!!

GS you know very well he had multiversal power in folds times several hundred times the power of the multiverse combined.

Originally posted by Mider
GS you know very well he had multiversal power in folds times several hundred times the power of the multiverse combined.

But if the Phoenix is responsible for the megaverse as depicted in New X-men 154 then Beyonders universe would come under that im afraid.

A Universe is a single dimension reality, such as Earth-616, the mainstream Marvel Universe.
Uni - "one"
The Multiverse is the collection of alternate dimensions with a similar nature and universal hierarchy. Earth-616, pretty much all of the What if? worlds, and the vast bulk of the alternate Earths seen in the MU (which include beings like the Watcher, Eternity, etc) are within the same Multiverse. The myriad realms of Earth-616's Multiverse are overseen by the Living Tribunal. Those realms that lack this hierarchy of power are outside of the Multiverse, but within the larger Omniverse.
Multi - "many"
The Omniverse is the collection of every single universe, dimension, etc. This includes the real world (right outside of your window--get out of your parent's basements and check it out!!), but it also includes every single universe, realm, etc., every mentioned in any of Marvel Comics, as well as those from DC, Image, Dark Horse, etc. It includes every single literary, television show, movie, urban legend, whatever universe/realm ever. It includes everyone from Popeye to Rocky Balboa to Ronald Reagan to Romeo and Juliet to Luke Skywalker to Snoopy to Jay and Silent Bob, etc.
EVERYTHING is in the Omniverse, and there is only one Omniverse. Period. The End.
Omni - "all"
The above classification system was devised (at least in part) by Mark Gruenwald. However, it does seem to be missing one element. We have coined the term Megaverse to include realms associated with a particular line of comics, etc., but outside of the Multiverse. This would include such realms as the New Universe, Earth-Shadowline, etc. These realms lack the cosmic beings of the mainstream Multiverse, yet they are still more closely tied to other Marvel Universes than those of other comic lines (such as DC). Thus they are included within the Marvel Megaverse.
Mega - "big" (used to imply a larger grouping than the Multiverse).


Thats from marvunapp the site put together by the writers of the handbooks. Its even referred to in the latest handbboks.

she was stated to be responsible for the MEGAVERSE?

Originally posted by Mider
she was stated to be responsible for the MEGAVERSE?

The avatars are in the white hot room surveying creation and the Phoenix consciousness tells Jean about how her actions severed 616s connection to the megaverse and it then advises Jean in rectifying this calling it Phoenix work. Its responsibilities extend across the entire megasystem

and how many multiverses does the mega verse hold

Originally posted by Mider
and how many multiverses does the mega verse hold

How am i supposed to know? lol. All we have to go by is that definition from marvunapp. Beyonder was a sentient universe from beyond the marvel multiverse. He is within the megaverse though going by that definition.

i hope there is someone stronger then the PF

cant believe lucifer and micheal have let themselve get pawned by the PF force not that i hate the PF but yeah i have my fav characters too for this i may have to make them go through the mider gauntlet

the midernaut
king mider
midneto
the mider force in the white hot mider room
the mider (spectre)
miderseid at full power
miderlactus
midiac
mr miderpyx
the miker
the midisher
mid (marv)
the mider (the mask)
mido (lobo)
mider morningstar and mider demigorg
the presence.................................OF MIDER

Originally posted by Mider
i hope there is someone stronger then the PF

Theres a number of peeps. Yahweh, Elaine and whatever Marvels equivalent is?

wonders if pf can get through my gauntlet

Originally posted by Mider
wonders if pf can get through my gauntlet

Even Phoenix has its limits lol.

Im betting Phoenix is gonna get messed up in Annihilation if they bother to feature it (which i doubt)

whats annihilation and what comic is it comming out in? if its of such cosmic proprtions eternty and its grandmother should be there.

Originally posted by Mider
whats annihilation and what comic is it comming out in? if its of such cosmic proprtions eternty and its grandmother should be there.

go to marvel.com and you'll find some stuff about it. Its a big cosmic saga starting next month

thanks

hay GS do you know about the new blood of apocalypse story arc you think they will up him to decent feats like when he laughed off blackbolts scream or stalemated the high evolutionary?

Originally posted by Mider
hay GS do you know about the new blood of apocalypse story arc you think they will up him to decent feats like when he laughed off blackbolts scream or stalemated the high evolutionary?

I got that today. I'll read it 2nite and tell u all about it

oh goodness i hope it doesnt suck

were on earth is galactic storm he or she was suppose to tell me how apocalypse faired in the new blood of apocalypse i wanted to know if he was up to his old standards of kicking butt or being jobbocaylpse

Hey guys! I'm not really sure but wasn't it stated that the C. Beyonder was no more than a incomplete cosmic cube? I think that was clarify by Kubik and put him in very low level of omnipotence. Every single power demonstration of the Beyonder before this retcon wasn't completely reconsidered or what? Is it to ask too much that somebody in Marvel put the house in order? Damn!

Originally posted by Mider
were on earth is galactic storm he or she was suppose to tell me how apocalypse faired in the new blood of apocalypse i wanted to know if he was up to his old standards of kicking butt or being jobbocaylpse

Sorry. Been busy.

By now you should know im a very sexy he


The first issue's alright i suppose. Interesting concept, but not alot going on and Apocalypse doesnt really appear till the last page so he doesnt do anything. The issue's just a scene setter. Its got potential. If youre an apocalypse fan then get it.

Originally posted by Diunic
Hey guys! I'm not really sure but wasn't it stated that the C. Beyonder was no more than a incomplete cosmic cube? I think that was clarify by Kubik and put him in very low level of omnipotence. Every single power demonstration of the Beyonder before this retcon wasn't completely reconsidered or what? Is it to ask too much that somebody in Marvel put the house in order? Damn!

Youre right about that but thats why we're referring to "Classic" Beyonder or Pre-retcon Beyonder, the incarnation of the character before he was retconned into being just an incomplete cosmic cube, when he actually was virtually omnipotent.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Sorry. Been busy.

By now you should know im a very sexy he

The infinites are a mixed bag one of them can crush eternity but they dont seem all that powerful at least not HOTU powerful.

Also it would be very interesting to me to know what is GS opinion about the True Beyonders, who they might be? And about the abstract cosmic entities i think i heard they were regular sentient beings from the previous universe whom were chosen by the PF to survive and receive godhood. Is that true?

What do you say about that possibility?

the beyonders were suppose to be so advanced that when the high evolutionary saw them he went insane when they took his world away to put on display, they live in a dimension that when some of its energy leaks it is contained or made into a divice called the cosmic cube that is said to make a wielders dreams or wishes come true i dont know how they work look what thanos did with it if you wish to know.

and what about the Infinits Mider? What are they for you? Don't you got a theory?

they were not more powerful then the beyonder since one died recreating a planet when beyonder died he released power several hundred times that of the multiverse and brought a universe as big as his own to life the infinites are pretty powerful they were going to drag whole galaxies away and make them all of the same vibration or something in the process killing maybe billions there tech is very advanced when eternity was called to stop them one grabed him with its hand eternity i believe talked them out of what they were doing and one of them used its energy bringing the planet they killed back to life while the others just left.

You know some sort of self imposed sacrifice is always common between such beings

"Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way (he does not see the other characters as real people). He easily vanished away Living Tribunal and scared off the host. He could just ensure that none of the gauntlet opposers ever existed or encase them in their own personal universes. The point of Beyonder is that he is the ultimate god character"



WOW.....theres a lot of contradiction here. I have an old comic book featuring Adam Warlock, The Living Tribunal, Eternity, and the Beyonder. In this comic book Beyonder was punished by being trapped in ONE universe, by the Living Tribunal. WHERE AND WHEN did he make the Living Tribunal vanish ? I know he is powerful, but I always thought he was less than the Living Tribunal. In this comic book I have it clearly states that.

And wasn't it recently illustrated that Beyonder is a damaged cosmic cube consciousness ?

Could you state the title and issue number in which the events youre referring to happened.

As for your point about the cosmic cube consciousness:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre right about that but thats why we're referring to "Classic" Beyonder or Pre-retcon Beyonder, the incarnation of the character before he was retconned into being just an incomplete cosmic cube, when he actually was virtually omnipotent.

You are right Beyonder was retconned in an incomplete CC, now he is a minor omnipotent female cosmic being Kosmos. The feats of classic Beyonder were unconsidered since it.

But what are the origins of Eternity and the other abstracts?

Originally posted by Diunic
You are right Beyonder was retconned in an incomplete CC, now he is a minor omnipotent female cosmic being Kosmos. The feats of classic Beyonder were unconsidered since it.

Yea but where considering his feats here, and many think he(at the time)represented a power far above any character then or since.
Some even believe he might of been the inspiration for the so called "One Above All".

Originally posted by Diunic
But what are the origins of Eternity and the other abstracts?

It's a vague bio, but remember this deity is incomprehensible to us, so they did the best they could do.

Eternity has been around since all of time! The first time any other being knew of him, must have been in Strange Tales #138. As the first force of reality, followed by Galactus, then Death, if anyone is strong enough to destroy any of these three beings, all life stops and cease. He is a Cosmic Entity like others. Galactus, Lord Chaos, Master Order, and Death are also Cosmic Entities. Later, he actually met Galactus, after a group of Elders tried to destroy Galactus. If it wasn't for Silver Surfer intervention, the Kree race would destroy Galactus, but Surfer obtained the Soul Gem and give it to the Elders. Later, Quasar comes in contact with Eternity, and searches for him, for the universe is in trouble, and must be due to his current status. So on Quasar's search, he meets many M-Bodies of Eternity, showing Eternity at many different times in his life, and on one occasion, trying to get the Living Tribunal, to have Adam Warlock give him back him cosmic powers, which he stole from Eternity. In the end, Quasar and his guide Tathki, an Elder, find Eternity unconscious, and is the cause of the Infinity War.

The thing is, if Beyonder already destoryed the multiverse, which he did, why didn't the Phoenix Force or the TOAA interfere, Molecule Man, who was the second the most powerful being in the multiverse, had to recreate everything.

The Living Tribunal, the Abstracts and Rachel Summers(Phoenix at the time)could do nothing, as a matter of fact they all begged the Molecule Man to interfere.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The thing about the Beyonder though is that regardless of all the claims thrown around about him (mostly by himself) he has no on panel feats to back them up. Thats the crux of the matter. So while he may very well have been intended to be the ultimate power, there have been characters/powers introduced since then that have performed far better ON PANEL feats. Its the nature of comics to introduce bigger and better characters as time goes on so with no impressive demonstrations of power (in comparison to the likes of Phoenix, HOTU, IG etc) how are we to know how his power compares to them? You cant conclusively say he'll trump such powers when he has no on panel feats to verify such an opinion. Unsupported character claims just dont cut it and with the retcon in place we'll never know.

Dude what greater feat is there than destroying the Multiverse, but I have lots of feats ready to go if you wish, we can go toe to toe, your Phoenix, my Beyonder.

But for starters, let's see him destory the Multiverse.

I wanna see Phoenix destorying the Multiverse on panel, not you explaining her away.

In case you can't read that scan, though I know you can, but just to make sure.


Beyonder: "Your all History"


Narrator:

The Beyonder's death stroke rends the earth--and space, utterly destroying everything inn it's path--all the way to the ends of infinity!

Can't get much clearer than that, you say you read the Secret Wars II saga and it's issues in-between, must of missed this one.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You presume too much Mr M. I have all of Secret Wars titles and have most of Beyonder's Pre and Post retcon appearances, so dont you worry about me not being clued up. I just dont agree with what youre saying thats all. He just doesnt have the feats to back up his and your claims. Nothing hes done on panel, no output of power comes close to the top showings of the aforementioned powers.


Actually you weren't clued up,
if you had been you'd know what I've just shown you.

And like I said I have plenty of global, universal and multiversal feats by the Beyonder.

Originally posted by Mr Master
In case you can't read that scan, though I know you can, but just to make sure.


Beyonder: "Your all History"


Narrator:

The Beyonder's death stroke rends the earth--and space, utterly destroying everything inn it's path--all the way to the ends of infinity!

Can't get much clearer than that, you say you read the Secret Wars II saga and it's issues in-between, must of missed this one.

Dont be silly MM youre gonna have to do alot better than that. Whats that supposed to show. Thats no multiversal feat, thats not even universal.

Where does it say he destroyed a universe let alone a multiverse? That scan shows Beyonder dying and letting out an energy burst that ripped through space destroying everything within its trajectory, the direction it was emitted in, not that it destroyed everything.

On top of that please tell me how that is a multiversal feat? What statement conclusively tells us that? Youre extrapolating (www.wordreference.com/definition) my friend. You still have nothing.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually you weren't clued up,
if you had been you'd know what I've just shown you.

And like I said I have plenty of global, universal and multiversal feats by the Beyonder.

Im clued up enough to know what im talking about. Your extrapolation of what scans you have provided suggests youre the one who's really in the dark.

You have no multiversal feats, you have a handful of universal ones. Global feats are a non factor.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The thing is, if Beyonder already destoryed the multiverse, which he did, why didn't the Phoenix Force or the TOAA interfere, Molecule Man, who was the second the most powerful being in the multiverse, had to recreate everything.

The Living Tribunal, the Abstracts and Rachel Summers(Phoenix at the time)could do nothing, as a matter of fact they all begged the Molecule Man to interfere.

Where did Beyonder destroy the multiverse? I have no recollection of that. Youre extrapolating MM and without a statement to say he did or a conclusive on panel depiction you have nothing.

If you want to prove a point dont be so selective with your scans. What have you got to hide?

Try posting the page before and the page after.

Rachel did intervene but shes only a host as opposed to her mother who is a true avatar, the Phoenix in human form. Its stated on panel that she has nowhere near the level of power of her mother, that her access to the Force is restricted and yet the Beyonder says on a variety of occassions that out of all the beings he has encountered she is the one he considers most like him, that she has the potential to be on his level.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807094078.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/880715469.jpg&s=x11


When Rachel gives the Beyonder back the power he lent her, he gets an insight into what it feels like to be a Phoenix and it is too much for his consciousness:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807184060.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807194683.jpg&s=x11

Heres the follow up to your rather selective scan

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807575988.jpg&s=x11

The Beyonder did not destroy the multiverse, he merely sent a death blast through space. Where it ended be it somewhere in 616 or beyond who knows? You cant however extrapolate and say he destroyed the multiverse especially when the man didnt even destroy the Earth. How ridiculous. If he did destroy the multiverse then we wouldnt be reading about the adventures of our beloved heroes right now cos noone fixed it.

Here are conclusive multiversal feats:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/5913134015.jpg&s=x402

Phoenix has saved the multiverse twice by containing the power of the M'kraan crystal twice, once in the previous universe and again in 616

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8808171532.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8808141113.jpg&s=x11

The previous multiverse was eventually destroyed by the M'kraan crystal when it was breached a second time in the previous universe by Dweller in the Darkness before Phoenix could contain its power. He hoped creation would see the resultant conflagration and die in fear (his power source) therefore making him virtually omnipotent. Before that happened Phoenix connected to all sentient life and saved it from eternal damnation allowing the creation cycle to continue, allowing (what would go on to be) the new Eternity to survive and gestate Galan(into Galactus)

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/5307094756.jpg&s=x402

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/5307212334.jpg&s=x402

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8808374683.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8808390586.jpg&s=x11

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont be silly MM youre gonna have to do alot better than that. Whats that supposed to show. Thats no multiversal feat, thats not even universal.

Where does it say he destroyed a universe let alone a multiverse? That scan shows Beyonder dying and letting out an energy burst that ripped through space destroying everything within its trajectory, the direction it was emitted in, not that it destroyed everything.

On top of that please tell me how that is a multiversal feat? What statement conclusively tells us that? Youre extrapolating (www.wordreference.com/definition) my friend. You still have nothing.

Beyonder didn't die there my friend, you talk good but you obviously don't read the whole comic, research your archives then debate, LOL also.

This incident took place when Beyonder and Molecule Man fought, Molecule Man who was only second to Beyonder could recreate the multiverse, sorry if you can't understand that but it seems when you see that others are as powerful or more powerful than your beloved Phoenix you search for logic and philosophy around the fact to dispute it, but don't worry it will be all proven here and now once and for all.

Just by you saying Beyonder died there proves to me you talk more than you know, but you do explain well, but I think you better stick to explaining Phoenix, otherwise read and study Beyonder appearances thoroughly and then com back, and by the way I hope I'm not being offensive, this is a debate.

Ok soon into the fight between CB and MM he ofcourse defeated him, he then said your all history and

"The Beyonder's death stroke rends the earth, and space, utterly destroying everything in it's path, all the way to the ends of infinity", this is the narrator talking so it's a fact.

Let's observe this quickly:

Rend: Definition from websters: tear (something) into two or more pieces
So he tears earth and space into pieces.

Utterly: Definition from websters: complete; absolute
So he completely destroys everything to the ends of infinity,
didn't know infinity ended in 616, LOL.

In your other post you asked why are there still comics or whatever if he did destory everything,
simple, because MM had enough power left over to shelter all living things in it's death path, as you yourself posted the scan, how is this possible?
Because MM was more powerful than all the multiverse's characters, yes including LT, Abstracts and whoever else and his control over molecules spans across the multiverse aswell, so he can disintegrate anything or recreate anything across the multiverse.

And this is proof that Beyonder could have destroyed the multiverse, when the Watchers gathered and unanimously agreed to interfere, because they wheere certain that the multiverse was on the verge of destruction by the Beyonder:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where did Beyonder destroy the multiverse? I have no recollection of that. Youre extrapolating MM and without a statement to say he did or a conclusive on panel depiction you have nothing.

If you want to prove a point dont be so selective with your scans. What have you got to hide?

Try posting the page before and the page after.

Rachel did intervene but shes only a host as opposed to her mother who is a true avatar, the Phoenix in human form. Its stated on panel that she has nowhere near the level of power of her mother, that her access to the Force is restricted and yet the Beyonder says on a variety of occassions that out of all the beings he has encountered she is the one he considers most like him, that she has the potential to be on his level.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807094078.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/880715469.jpg&s=x11


When Rachel gives the Beyonder back the power he lent her, he gets an insight into what it feels like to be a Phoenix and it is too much for his consciousness:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807184060.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807194683.jpg&s=x11

Now your extrapolating(nice word)or simply making stuff up,
he never said it on a variety of occasions, he said it ONCE, in Uncanny X-Men 203, I have every comic of Beyonder's aswell, it's the only time he says it,
and he says she has the potential to be LIKE him,(what that means is open to debate), never he says or the narrator says to be his equal in power, you threw that in of your own accord.

Don't make stuff up!, to give Phoenix a higher status.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Heres the follow up to your rather selective scan

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807575988.jpg&s=x11

The Beyonder did not destroy the multiverse, he merely sent a death blast through space. Where it ended be it somewhere in 616 or beyond who knows? You cant however extrapolate and say he destroyed the multiverse especially when the man didnt even destroy the Earth. How ridiculous. If he did destroy the multiverse then we wouldnt be reading about the adventures of our beloved heroes right now cos noone fixed it.

I think I already answered this one, Molecule Man fixed it, jeez you post the scan and don't even read it, LOLOLOL
actually he sheltered everyone from the destruction, he then goes on to say he has every living thing is stasis in sub-space, and will bring them back later.
And that's how our beloved heroes are still around, not because of TOAA or Phoenix Force or Living Tribunal, because of the Molecule Man who was no joke in those days.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Here are conclusive multiversal feats:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/5913134015.jpg&s=x402

Ok no doubt, that is a multiversal feat, I'm not going to down her when a fact is a fact, then again I never underrated her.

But I have multiversal feats too:

Here Beyonder scans the entire multiverse simultaneously.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Here are conclusive multiversal feats:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/5913134015.jpg&s=x402

Ok no doubt, that is a multiversal feat, I'm not going to down her when a fact is a fact, then again I never underrated her.

But I have multiversal feats too:

Here Beyonder explores the Multiverse without even moving his body

Originally posted by Mr Master
Here Beyonder explores the Multiverse without even moving his body


continues:

Originally posted by Mr Master
Here Beyonder explores the Multiverse without even moving his body


Ah one more:

This one again, on another occasion sends destruction across the entire multiverse,

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ah one more:

This one again, on another occasion sends destruction across the entire multiverse,

This is the next page, since you think I have something to hide, it clearly tells us he caused mass destruction across the entire multiverse.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is the next page, since you think I have something to hide, it clearly tells us he caused mass destruction across the entire multiverse.

It also proves how incredibly powerful the Molecule Man was, in seconds he repairs everything.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder didn't die there my friend, you talk good but you obviously don't read the whole comic, research your archives then debate, LOL also.

This incident took place when Beyonder and Molecule Man fought, Molecule Man who was only second to Beyonder could recreate the multiverse, sorry if you can't understand that but it seems when you see that others are as powerful or more powerful than your beloved Phoenix you search for logic and philosophy around the fact to dispute it, but don't worry it will be all proven here and now once and for all.

I read the comic just fine. The Beyonder was reduced to energy, the Beyonder character died and made a new universe as stated on panel. Your opinion is irrelevant in light of that. Quite ironic that you would throw accusations regarding poor logic around when all of yours has apparrently gone out the window.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Just by you saying Beyonder died there proves to me you talk more than you know, but you do explain well, but I think you better stick to explaining Phoenix, otherwise read and study Beyonder appearances thoroughly and then com back, and by the way I hope I'm not being offensive, this is a debate.

Beyonder as we know him died. He was reduced to a state of primal unbeing and his energies became the basis for a new universe outside of 616. The Beyonder died:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8810514030.jpg&s=x11

It seems im not the only one who thinks so

Youre excused.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok soon into the fight between CB and MM he ofcourse defeated him, he then said your all history and

"The Beyonder's death stroke rends the earth, and space, utterly destroying everything in it's path, all the way to the ends of infinity", this is the narrator talking so it's a fact.

Let's observe this quickly:

Rend: Definition from websters: tear (something) into two or more pieces
So he tears earth and space into pieces.

Utterly: Definition from websters: complete; absolute
So he completely destroys everything to the ends of infinity,
didn't know infinity ended in 616, LOL.

Was the Earth torn in two or did Beyonders attack just tear a chasm in the Colorado mountain range?

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807575988.jpg&s=x11

The blast was not all consuming, it was a directional beam with a trajectory that lead from Earth into space. The caption said it destroyed everything in its path, not that it destroyed everything. Do you see the difference Mr M? The blast was not omni directional i.e, it didnt eminate in waves, it was a beam of energy. It only destroyed everything in the path of its trajectory.

Saying the beam of energy stretched off to the ends of infinity does not tell you whether it travelled to the end of the universe or the ends of the multiverse. It is open to interpretation. There are differing levels of infinity. Your interpretation isnt conclusively verified so dont be so arrogant as to treat it as fact. For all we know the caption is referring to the abstract Infinity. The line is ambiguous.

Originally posted by Mr Master
In your other post you asked why are there still comics or whatever if he did destory everything,
simple, because MM had enough power left over to shelter all living things in it's death path, as you yourself posted the scan, how is this possible?
Because MM was more powerful than all the multiverse's characters, yes including LT, Abstracts and whoever else and his control over molecules spans across the multiverse aswell, so he can disintegrate anything or recreate anything across the multiverse.

Im not doubting that Molecule Man prior to the retcon had the power to achieve such a task however as it wasnt stated or shown anywhere on panel or in bios that he did do so you cant assume that he did. Dont you dare talk to me about logic again



Originally posted by Mr Master
And this is proof that Beyonder could have destroyed the multiverse, when the Watchers gathered and unanimously agreed to interfere, because they wheere certain that the multiverse was on the verge of destruction by the Beyonder:

Noones doubting that he could've have destroyed the multiverse. He was very powerful. What i am disputing is that he DID destroy the multiverse. Given that after the beam the Earth is still intact, the fact that it was a directional beam of energy that was stated to just destroy everything in its path and given that nowhere is it stated that Molecule Man fixed the multiverse it is quite apparrent that you are extrapolation and your argument is primarily speculation. You have nothing to go on.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Now your extrapolating(nice word)or simply making stuff up,
he never said it on a variety of occasions, he said it ONCE, in Uncanny X-Men 203, I have every comic of Beyonder's aswell, it's the only time he says it,
and he says she has the potential to be LIKE him,(what that means is open to debate), never he says or the narrator says to be his equal in power, you threw that in of your own accord.

Don't make stuff up!, to give Phoenix a higher status.

No he said in Uncanny x-men 196 that Rcahel is the one most like him out of all the beings he's encountered and thats Rachel, the host. Jean Grey is on a whole different level completely as stated on panel.

Then in Uncanny x-men 203 he dismisses all sentient beings as amoeba save for Rachel the starsoul. I have posted both scenes, the matter is not up for debate in light of that. Sorry mate.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I think I already answered this one, Molecule Man fixed it, jeez you post the scan and don't even read it, LOLOLOL
actually he sheltered everyone from the destruction, he then goes on to say he has every living thing is stasis in sub-space, and will bring them back later.
And that's how our beloved heroes are still around, not because of TOAA or Phoenix Force or Living Tribunal, because of the Molecule Man who was no joke in those days.

It says he moved every living thing out of the path of the beam. You are still making assumptions about the range of the beam and the amount of destruction caused. Nowhere is it stated that it destroyed the multiverse and nowhere is it stated that Mol Man fixed the destruction. If Mol man moved every living thing out of the way then that means that the beam didnt actually destroy anything.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Here Beyonder scans the entire multiverse simultaneously.

Even Photon can do that. Eternity and the abstracts showed in the scene where Beyonder killed Death that they were attuned to the multiverse. Thats not an impressive feat. That shows his cosmic awareness which many cosmic characters.

We'll continue this 2moz. Gots ta go.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I read the comic just fine. The Beyonder was reduced to energy, the Beyonder character died and made a new universe as stated on panel. Your opinion is irrelevant in light of that. Quite ironic that you would throw accusations regarding poor logic around when all of yours has apparrently gone out the window.



Beyonder as we know him died. He was reduced to a state of primal unbeing and his energies became the basis for a new universe outside of 616. The Beyonder died:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8810514030.jpg&s=x11

It seems im not the only one who thinks so

Youre excused.

Galactic Storm are you ok, or are you just being obtuse?
He DID NOT DIE when that specific incident occurred, what's wrong with you,

He died later on in that issue, when he transformed himself into a baby and Molecule Man killed him!
And it just wasn't some new universe either it was the beyond-realm, which he emcompassed, and the beyond-realm is everything outside the multiverse, beyond space and time.
Proof:

more proof:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The blast was not all consuming, it was a directional beam with a trajectory that lead from Earth into space. The caption said it destroyed everything in its path, not that it destroyed everything. Do you see the difference Mr M? The blast was not omni directional i.e, it didnt eminate in waves, it was a beam of energy. It only destroyed everything in the path of its trajectory.

Saying the beam of energy stretched off to the ends of infinity does not tell you whether it travelled to the end of the universe or the ends of the multiverse. It is open to interpretation. There are differing levels of infinity. Your interpretation isnt conclusively verified so dont be so arrogant as to treat it as fact. For all we know the caption is referring to the abstract Infinity. The line is ambiguous.


This makes sense, finally.

But it still reached the ends of infinity, and your right we'll never know whether it was the universal concept of infinity or the multiversal, but since I have proven he definately could of destroyed the multiverse, what difference does it make, it should still be excepted as a capacity of his.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im not doubting that Molecule Man prior to the retcon had the power to achieve such a task however as it wasnt stated or shown anywhere on panel or in bios that he did do so you cant assume that he did. Dont you dare talk to me about logic again





Noones doubting that he could've have destroyed the multiverse. He was very powerful. What i am disputing is that he DID destroy the multiverse. Given that after the beam the Earth is still intact, the fact that it was a directional beam of energy that was stated to just destroy everything in its path and given that nowhere is it stated that Molecule Man fixed the multiverse it is quite apparrent that you are extrapolation and your argument is primarily speculation. You have nothing to go on.

Ok so now your wrong again, I posted it a short time ago, or do you only indulge in your own posts, but here it is again:

Beyonder causing destruction across the multiverse,

And Molecule Man repairing the destruction across the multiverse:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No he said in Uncanny x-men 196 that Rcahel is the one most like him out of all the beings he's encountered and thats Rachel, the host. Jean Grey is on a whole different level completely as stated on panel.

Then in Uncanny x-men 203 he dismisses all sentient beings as amoeba save for Rachel the starsoul. I have posted both scenes, the matter is not up for debate in light of that. Sorry mate.

Being like him does not mean being his equal or greater in power, you'll see it that way because you love Phoenix but that's open to debate aswell, and by the way the only reason he fell down after receiving that feed back from Rachel was because he felt all the experiences and turmoils of every living thing in the universe, not because he got more power back or because it was to much for him to handle, he was taken off guard by sufferings and lifelong experiences of so many, this is why Storm says:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It says he moved every living thing out of the path of the beam. You are still making assumptions about the range of the beam and the amount of destruction caused. Nowhere is it stated that it destroyed the multiverse and nowhere is it stated that Mol Man fixed the destruction. If Mol man moved every living thing out of the way then that means that the beam didnt actually destroy anything.


It is clearly stated on panel that he shielded them from the death blast's path, and that he REMOVED not moved, every living thing, and that they're in Stasis, in sub-space, he also says, " I'll bring em' back later, if there is a later".

Let's understand that now,

Remove: From Webster's dictionary:
take away (something unwanted or unnecessary) from the position it occupies.

Move: From Webster's dictionary:
go in a specified direction or manner.

There's obviously a difference, when you Remove something you take it away, when you just Move something you change it's specific direction, like moving something from left to right.

Stasis: From Webster's dictionary:
a period or state of inactivity or equilibrium

Sub-Space: From Webster's dictionary:
a space that is wholly contained in another space, or whose points or elements are all in another space.

Wonder how All Living Things eneded up in Sub-Space if he only moved them out of the way, LOL!

Bottom line,
your the one who's full to the T with assumptions, and you twist facts so they cater to your opinions, but if anyone is reading and seeing this, they'll know I speak truth and facts.

And there's the famous scan, please read it carefully, so I don't think your being obtuse.

MM I like you ^_^

Originally posted by Jesse7
MM I like you ^_^

Your gonna like this even more,

the question is how powerful was the Beyonder exactly?

Phoenix became one with the Matrix of the M'Kraan's energy field, enabling her to seal the breach, she didn't do this with her power alone, she had too become one with the Matrix, but I'm flexible, so I'll give it to her anyway.

And in the second incident where she "saves the multiverse" the rest of the X-Men help by becoming one with the lattice pattern surrounding the N-galaxy, again, she doesn't do it with her power alone, but I'll even give her that one too.

But what I'm about to show you is the Beyonder's power on panel being gauged,
without any help or add ons,

How powerful was Beyonder once and for all?

Not just more powerful than all the power in the marvel multiverse combined,

not just several times more powerful than all the power in the marvel multiverse combined,

not just hundreds of times more powerful than all the power in the marvel multiverse combined,

not even just one million times more powerful than all the power in the marvel multi verse combined,

but MILLIONS of TIMES MORE POWERFUL than ALL the Power in the Marvel Multiverse Combined: ahhhhhhh!!!!

Ofcourse proof:

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your gonna like this even more,

the question is how powerful was the Beyonder exactly?

Phoenix became one with the Matrix of the M'Kraan's energy field, enabling her to seal the breach, she didn't do this with her power alone, she had too become one with the Matrix, but I'm flexible, so I'll give it to her anyway.

And in the second incident where she "saves the multiverse" the rest of the X-Men help by becoming one with the lattice pattern surrounding the N-galaxy, again, she doesn't do it with her power alone, but I'll even give her that one too.

But what I'm about to show you is the Beyonder's power on panel being gauged,
without any help or add ons,

How powerful was Beyonder once and for all?

Not just more powerful than all the power in the marvel multiverse combined,

not just several times more powerful than all the power in the marvel multiverse combined,

not just hundreds of times more powerful than all the power in the marvel multiverse combined,

not even just one million times more powerful than all the power in the marvel multi verse combined,

but MILLIONS of TIMES MORE POWERFUL than ALL the Power in the Marvel Multiverse Combined: ahhhhhhh!!!!

Ofcourse proof:


TOAA, eat your heart out...

Who in the history of comics has had that claim certified about them?

Being Millions of Times More Powerful than All the Power in the Marvel Multiverse Combined?

No one, except for Classic Beyonder.

This means it would take

Millions of Living Tribunals
Millions of Multiversal Abstracts
Millions of Phoenixes
Millions of Celestials
Millions of Galactuses
Millions of every hero and villian

to match Classic Beyonder's power.

Wow that is powerful. I have always liked the Beyonder but that is crazy. Crazy powerful I tell you.

Originally posted by bean_machine
Wow that is powerful. I have always liked the Beyonder but that is crazy. Crazy powerful I tell you.

Tell me about it,

I always new he was rediculously powerful, but I researched the character thoroughly not too long ago and came across this unbelievable fact,
but there were members here claiming Beyonder was merely galactic or universal scale, I knew that was wrong and was determined to get the facts straight.

I also discovered that he emcompassed everything outside the Marvel Multiverse,
in other words, he was everything beyond the multiverse, that can barely be understood, even as I write it, the magnitude, the vastness,

he definately was the most powerful character Marvel ever made, which is also why they had to get rid of him and then retcon him, he was just to much.

Originally posted by Mr Master


Galactic Storm are you ok, or are you just being obtuse?
He DID NOT DIE when that specific incident occurred, what's wrong with you,

He died later on in that issue, when he transformed himself into a baby and Molecule Man killed him!


Irrelevant. The point i was making was that the Beyonder as we knew him died in the end.

Originally posted by Mr Master
And it just wasn't some new universe either it was the beyond-realm, which he emcompassed, and the beyond-realm is everything outside the multiverse, beyond space and time.
Proof:

The Beyond Realm is NOT everything that lies beyond the multiverse, it is an other dimensional universe that the Pre retcon Beyonder encompassed. Big difference. He was everything from the Beyond Realm NOT everything from beyond the multiverse.:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/otherdimensions/beyond.htm

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/9408365978.jpg&s=x10

Lets not get too excited now.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok so now your wrong again, I posted it a short time ago, or do you only indulge in your own posts, but here it is again:

Beyonder causing destruction across the multiverse,

This is a previous instance of him causing destruction across the multiverse, it is not the one you presented as proof of him actually destroying the entire multiverse, the one i disputed. So dont try and present it as such.

Either way it is clear that Beyonder has the capacity for multiversal feats, however the scene you initially presented wasnt sufficient proof of this.


Originally posted by Mr Master
Being like him does not mean being his equal or greater in power, you'll see it that way because you love Phoenix but that's open to debate aswell, and by the way the only reason he fell down after receiving that feed back from Rachel was because he felt all the experiences and turmoils of every living thing in the universe, not because he got more power back or because it was to much for him to handle, he was taken off guard by sufferings and lifelong experiences of so many, this is why Storm says:

In Uncanny x-men 196 Beyonder comments on Rachels extraordinary power level and comments on her being new to her power, he then says of all the entities hes encountered she is the being most like him and that she seems unaware of how powerful she truly is. Given that the focus of his comments were solely power related it is quite obvious that he was saying potentially she is the closest to him power wise, that is quite obvious.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807094078.jpg&s=x11

In line with those comments he later says in Uncanny X-men 203 that except for Rachel all living beings he's encountered are less than amoeba to him.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/880715469.jpg&s=x11

Out of all beings Rachel was closest to him in power and yet she was only the limited Phoenix. During her time as a host she never had full access to the Force, the power was always rationed out to her at levels she could handle. Jean the White Crown Phoenix is a whole different level.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807184060.jpg&s=x11

As for the scene where Beyonder reclaimed his power, the point was that what Rachel represents, what shes connected with, is something so great that when Beyonder got an insight into it it was too much for his consciousness to bear and he was humbled:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8807194683.jpg&s=x11

This scene verifies Beyonders own comments about Rachels potential and her being the power closest to his own. What that says about Jean who literally is the Force i'll leave for you to contemplate.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It is clearly stated on panel that he shielded them from the death blast's path, and that he REMOVED not moved, every living thing, and that they're in Stasis, in sub-space, he also says, " I'll bring em' back later, if there is a later".

Let's understand that now,

Remove: From Webster's dictionary:
take away (something unwanted or unnecessary) from the position it occupies.

Move: From Webster's dictionary:
go in a specified direction or manner.

There's obviously a difference, when you Remove something you take it away, when you just Move something you change it's specific direction, like moving something from left to right.

Stasis: From Webster's dictionary:
a period or state of inactivity or equilibrium

Sub-Space: From Webster's dictionary:
a space that is wholly contained in another space, or whose points or elements are all in another space.

Wonder how All Living Things eneded up in Sub-Space if he only moved them out of the way, LOL!

Bottom line,
your the one who's full to the T with assumptions, and you twist facts so they cater to your opinions, but if anyone is reading and seeing this, they'll know I speak truth and facts.

And there's the famous scan, please read it carefully, so I don't think your being obtuse.

You seem ever so confused MrM. Why are you suddenly trying to argue over what Molecule Man did when that has no relevance to our Beyonder dispute whatsoever.

You originally said that Beyonder destroyed the multiverse with his death blast, I questioned this by highlighting how the heroes were still alive and that there was no mention of Beyonders blast causing such total destruction. You then rather illogically said that Molecule Man fixed the destruction after Beyonder destroyed the multiverse, another assumption of yours, one not stated anywhere on panel as i later highlighted. I then posted with regards to the ambiguous statements within your "evidence" and you backed down and agreed that what you had previously presented as concrete evidence was actually open to interpretation as i had said all along.

Now for some reason youre trying argue with me over the extent of Molecule Mans actions. Youre going off on a tangent, there is no need it doesnt help your case in the slightest.

The bottom line is that Molecules Mans actions meant that Beyonder didnt actually destroy anything as stated, further dismissing your wild notion that he destroyed the multiverse (a notion you have back tracked on anyway so its all good )

Originally posted by Mr Master
Who in the history of comics has had that claim certified about them?

Being Millions of Times More Powerful than All the Power in the Marvel Multiverse Combined?

No one, except for Classic Beyonder.

This means it would take

Millions of Living Tribunals
Millions of Multiversal Abstracts
Millions of Phoenixes
Millions of Celestials
Millions of Galactuses
Millions of every hero and villian

to match Classic Beyonder's power.

The claim hasnt been certified anywhere. There snothing to show us its not hyperbole. When captions say that Wolverine moved at lightning speed are we to assume that Wolverine can and has moved at a third of the speed of light?

In his time Beyonder was certainly the most powerful being around however theres nothing on panel that certifies that statement as Beyonder hasnt performed a feat beyond what others have been shown capable of. Since his time, beings and powers have been written at levels on par with, if not beyond what he has shown to do.

Your claims in light of that are void. It was extremely naive of you to take such a statement as fact when it hasnt been proven to be so on panel or verified by other official sources. Sorry mate

Originally posted by Pepito
Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way (he does not see the other characters as real people). He easily vanished away Living Tribunal and scared off the host. He could just ensure that none of the gauntlet opposers ever existed or encase them in their own personal universes. The point of Beyonder is that he is the ultimate god character

What he said. End of thread.

Originally posted by Mindship
What he said. End of thread.

Supposedly representing something and being said thing in comic book form are two completely different things. It really isnt that simple.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Irrelevant. The point i was making was that the Beyonder as we knew him died in the end.



The Beyond Realm is NOT everything that lies beyond the multiverse, it is an other dimensional universe that the Pre retcon Beyonder encompassed. Big difference. He was everything from the Beyond Realm NOT everything from beyond the multiverse.:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/otherdimensions/beyond.htm

GS, there's no real point in debating with you since all the proof in the world doesn't convince you, you think you know it all, no offense but you do, and when factual proof is thrown at you, you dismiss it with clever explanations that may sway the youngans at this forum but not me, but I'll respond to your posts for fun now and for others that read our posts cause I know that "on panel proof" is not enough for you.

Go to your own link and tell me where it says it's an "other dimensional universe", --- WHERE? WHERE?!!!!!

This is what it says in plain text:

Beyond our own reality lies the universe of the Beyonder - a reality embodied by a single sentient being.

What's beyond our universe?
One thing, the universe of the Beyonder - a reality embodied by a single sentient being.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Irrelevant. The point i was making was that the Beyonder as we knew him died in the end.



Not irrelevent, you thought the Beyonder died during the scan where he fights Molecule Man and you where WRONG.

That's why it's irrelevent to you now, because you where wrong, like you been many times but you wouldn't know that, and even if you did you can't except that, that's not me being judgemental either, you've proven that through out this thread, am I lying?

I'll repost a bunch of incorrect claims you've made about the Beyonder, because from the beginning of this thread you've been in the dark about the Beyonder, you've learned more about the Beyonder in this thread than you ever did from having his comics, once again I hope your not offended, you obviously have comic knowledge, but not much about Classic Beyonder, but your learning now, although you won't except "onpanel proof" anyway.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Irrelevant. The point i was making was that the Beyonder as we knew him died in the end.



The Beyond Realm is NOT everything that lies beyond the multiverse, it is an other dimensional universe that the Pre retcon Beyonder encompassed. Big difference. He was everything from the Beyond Realm NOT everything from beyond the multiverse.:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/otherdimensions/beyond.htm

GS, there's no real point in debating with you since all the proof in the world doesn't convince you, you think you know it all, no offense but you do, and when factual proof is thrown at you, you dismiss it with clever explanations that may sway the youngans at this forum but not me, but I'll respond to your posts for fun now and for others that read our posts cause I know that "on panel proof" is not enough for you.

Go to your own link and tell me where it says it's an "other dimensional universe", --- WHERE? WHERE?!!!!!

This is what it says in plain text:

Beyond our own reality lies the universe of the Beyonder - a reality embodied by a single sentient being.

What's beyond our universe?
One thing, the universe of the Beyonder - a reality embodied by a single sentient being.

Oh Mr M. Where do i begin?!!

You claimed that everything beyond the marvel multiverse is encompassed by the Beyonder. I disputed that as there are many things beyond the Marvel multiverse and Beyonder has not been shown to have a connection with them. For example you have the New Universe, which is part of Marvels greater megaverse and you have the multiverses of other companies such as DC (which by canon is beyond our multiverse, but within the greater omniverse with their being canon crossovers). Does Beyonder encompass all of those things?

Nope he most certainly does NOT. In one of the links i gave you which was his bio entry it states that Beyonder encompassed an other dimensional universe from beyond our multiverse. The other link to marveldirectory.com was in line with this and said beyond the mainstream reality lies Beyond Realm a universe which Beyonder encompassed. That is completely different to your absurd claims that Beyonder encompasses everything beyond marvels multiverse. Im sorry mate but the scan from the handbook proves you wrong quite conclusively. Better luck next time.

he clears it he has power sevel million times the multiverse COMBINED

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is a previous instance of him causing destruction across the multiverse, it is not the one you presented as proof of him actually destroying the entire multiverse, the one i disputed. So dont try and present it as such.

Either way it is clear that Beyonder has the capacity for multiversal feats, however the scene you initially presented wasnt sufficient proof of this.










Well ok, the specific scan I posted of him supposedly destroying the multiverse didn't say it was till ends of the multiverse but till the ends of Infinity, for you that's not clear enough, but my point was if he caused destruction across the multiverse before, which Molecule Man fixed and which I showed proof, why wouldn't that one be till the ends of the multiverse aswell?