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Please let me know if this is somehow FAIR?

A girl, for the whole of last year (2005) got bullied by alot of people in my school, no real/main reason why, a teenage thing, where its kewl somehow by making other people feel like utter sh!t.
So anyway, the holidays came, and school just started back, and she doesn't return. Why, because a few weeks before school, she kills herself (hung herself).
How do people have the right to take other peoples lives? To push them so far to the edge and then over?

How can somebody be so selfish by killing herself?

You can put blame on the bullies for her dying, but they didnt take her life. She did, and nonbody can be blamed for that.

tho this kind of comment belongs in the philosophy forum, i'd like you to think about 1 thing.

If she killed the bullies, she would have hurt those who hurt her. By killing herself, she only hurt the people that she loved. Driving someone to suicide is a crime beyond comprehension, but if you think about the actual act, the only true suicide victims are those who loved the suicide.

Originally posted by spidergrl
Please let me know if this is somehow FAIR?

A girl, for the whole of last year (2005) got bullied by alot of people in my school, no real/main reason why, a teenage thing, where its kewl somehow by making other people feel like utter sh!t.
So anyway, the holidays came, and school just started back, and she doesn't return. Why, because a few weeks before school, she kills herself (hung herself).
How do people have the right to take other peoples lives? To push them so far to the edge and then over?


Well, are you sure that the bullying is the direct cause?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, are you sure that the bullying is the direct cause?

You're right. Other factors could be the cause as well.

Originally posted by spidergrl
Please let me know if this is somehow FAIR?
Hi, I'm Dave, and welcome to the real world.

One thing I should let you know about it is that thing's aren't often fair around here.

This is one such example, but it's life.

Thanks,

Dave.

Originally posted by spidergrl
How do people have the right to take other peoples lives? To push them so far to the edge and then over?


She took her own life. There a millions of teenagers that get picked on but don't commit suicide

Incredible though it may seem, Darth Jello has it right.

Originally posted by spidergrl
Please let me know if this is somehow FAIR?

A girl, for the whole of last year (2005) got bullied by alot of people in my school, no real/main reason why, a teenage thing, where its kewl somehow by making other people feel like utter sh!t.
So anyway, the holidays came, and school just started back, and she doesn't return. Why, because a few weeks before school, she kills herself (hung herself).
How do people have the right to take other peoples lives? To push them so far to the edge and then over?


No, it's not fair. Some people can't understand that their actions and comments can affect a person's life.
For me, middle school felt like an undescribeable shithole. It didn't make me want to kill myself though, it just eradicated my trust and affection towards human beings as a whole.

You don't know exactly what the cause of her suicide was. You shouldn't blame the "bullies". Everyone deals with assholes at least once in a lifetime, thats just how life goes. There could be a greater cause.
Im sorry for her, but if your friend here killed herself over a bunch of assholes, she must have been way too sensitive about this kind of shit.

I wonder Why I am still alive

My heart goes out to this girl and her family.

The final responsibility for a person's life rests with that person. This girl made a choice. Unfortunately, it is a fact of adolescence that foresight--in this case, being able to see beyond the pain--is less developed than it is in an adult, otherwise she may've made a different choice.

What support systems did she have in her life? Did anyone do anything to help her? Did she approach anyone for help? Her parents? The school? Friends?

Those who tormented her also made choices and their contribution to this situation must be addressed. The girl's parents should be consulting with the school, with the parents of the bullies, and if need be, with legal authorities.

I heard of a girl from college got suspended or something here in Miami. They graduate but never means certain victory.

And that's relevant how?

Anyway, on the original topic...life isn't fair. That's how it is. However, I'm sure there's more to this story than anyone knows - or ever will.

Originally posted by Mindship
My heart goes out to this girl and her family.

Those who tormented her also made choices and their contribution to this situation must be addressed. The girl's parents should be consulting with the school, with the parents of the bullies, and if need be, with legal authorities.


My heart goes out to the family, not the girl. She was selfish.

Legal authority?
What's the charge?

The bullies can be expelled (atleast in Canada), but they're is no way to committed a crime.

I never got that, "Feel sorry for the girl/guy." Why? They knew what suicide meant and what they wanted, so they made their choice. It's an unfortunate choice but they made it.

It sucks for their parents, as said above. They didn't choose to lose a loved one, yet they will probably blame the bullies also.

-AC

its unfair, i feel bad, but spidergrl, your icon has forced me to disrespect u forever because william mosley is a priss wuss who sucks





sorry for the random thought

Any Murder of any kind isn't good.

Lifes not fair

Your friend made the concious choice to take her own life. Suicide is selfish, even though it pains me to say that. She left behind loved ones, people who cared about her, and could have helped, had she only given them a chance.

Im going to try and not get angry at the people who go "blah blah blah selfish selfish blah blah" Yes, its selfish, but look at the reasons she did this for, she couldn't HANDLE the life that people were making her deal with. For someone to/try kill themself, they're not in the right state of mind, to be making dicisions like that, therefore, shouldn't fully be blamed.
She had given life a chance ... for a year, and the teachers and all the assholes here, did jack all about it. They did nothing to help her, and this is what she ended up doing, I hope they feel at least a small bit guilty and maybe next time they see something like this happening, they'll get off their lazy fat asses and finally do something about it, and then maybe ... just maybe, they might save a life.



As I explained above, it is a selfish act, because for once in this world, your thinking about yourself, and only yourself, because you never do that. And you want to get rid of the pain thats all around you, thats bring you down and you don't see any other way of doing it. Your hurting so much, and you just don't see the people all around you, wanting to help you and make things better. Its a medical condition, your mentally unwell if you think about killing yourself

Originally posted by spidergrl
Im going to try and not get angry at the people who go "blah blah blah selfish selfish blah blah" Yes, its selfish, but look at the reasons she did this for, she couldn't HANDLE the life that people were making her deal with. For someone to/try kill themself, they're not in the right state of mind, to be making dicisions like that, therefore, shouldn't fully be blamed.
She had given life a chance ... for a year, and the teachers and all the assholes here, did jack all about it. They did nothing to help her, and this is what she ended up doing, I hope they feel at least a small bit guilty and maybe next time they see something like this happening, they'll get off their lazy fat asses and finally do something about it, and then maybe ... just maybe, they might save a life.



As I explained above, it is a selfish act, because for once in this world, your thinking about yourself, and only yourself, because you never do that. And you want to get rid of the pain thats all around you, thats bring you down and you don't see any other way of doing it. Your hurting so much, and you just don't see the people all around you, wanting to help you and make things better. Its a medical condition, your mentally unwell if you think about killing yourself

It's funny you place blame on everyone else who should have done something, but yet you haven't mentioned yourself helping in any way.

Originally posted by spidergrl
As I explained above, it is a selfish act, because for once in this world, your thinking about yourself, and only yourself, because you never do that. And you want to get rid of the pain thats all around you, thats bring you down and you don't see any other way of doing it. Your hurting so much, and you just don't see the people all around you, wanting to help you and make things better. Its a medical condition, your mentally unwell if you think about killing yourself


It's called depression, and its entirely treatable. Most people who have it rarely off themselves. If they do, it's not because they're running from pain but more to prove a point, or lazy. People with depression arnt insane, mentally challenge or anything that unables them to make descisions. They're perfectly capable to relize what they're doing.

This girl who killed herself was pathetic. Everybody has problems (alot are worst than what happened to her), you just have to deal with it, not take the easy road and die. She could of changed schools, moved somewhere else, call kids help line, anything. So in actuality, she's a lazy pathetic girl. Somewhat ironic also, is that she basically gives in to the bully by killing herself, instead of standing up for herself.

I'am an ******* for saying this, but who cares if she died.

A fitting quote for this topic, "All I'm saying is that if I ever start referring to these as the best years of my life - remind me to kill myself." (Pink, Dazed and Confused)

Originally posted by spidergrl
Please let me know if this is somehow FAIR?

A girl, for the whole of last year (2005) got bullied by alot of people in my school, no real/main reason why, a teenage thing, where its kewl somehow by making other people feel like utter sh!t.
So anyway, the holidays came, and school just started back, and she doesn't return. Why, because a few weeks before school, she kills herself (hung herself).
How do people have the right to take other peoples lives? To push them so far to the edge and then over?


Life is not fair. Some people can deal with it, while others can not.

the most frightening aspect of modern young life is the apparent uncaring attitude to death. whether it be killing themselves or others. Could it be true that a society that seems to have everything has indeed, nothing.

Originally posted by stilian24
the most frightening aspect of modern young life is the apparent uncaring attitude to death. whether it be killing themselves or others. Could it be true that a society that seems to have everything has indeed, nothing.

No, it isn't a matter of modern young life. There were teen suicides before the modern, media age. They simply weren't as well publicized. These days, it's all about children safety! and children's well-being! Who pays attention to the guy who's 40 and blows the back of his head out? No one! When a kid does it, it's world news! It's all a matter of someone who can't stop thinking to themselves. In all reality, it is the action of a person who has spent so much time thinking about how much better the rest of the world has it, and decided that was too much with which to deal! There will always be someone out there who has more money, hasn't been raped by their stepfather, has peers mocking them, didn't get a barbie dream house for their bithday...but not everyone who has experienced those things in life feels the need to string themselves up!

When are people going to realize that no life-changing decisions (other than college) should be made before the age of 22????

Hell, if I had followed through with all the wild fantasies that I thought would change my world and HAD to be made (or else I would die if they weren't changed - no pun intended) when I was that age, my life would have screwed up, too.

Originally posted by Makedde
Your friend made the concious choice to take her own life. Suicide is selfish, even though it pains me to say that. She left behind loved ones, people who cared about her, and could have helped, had she only given them a chance.

I agree.

Although I think it's a ghastly thing for anyone to do, the person is ultimately responsible for their suicide. She could have spoken to someone...reached out for help....but I guess she took the other road

Relatives of people who seriously attempt or complete suicide often blame themselves or become extremely angry, seeing the attempt or act as selfish. However, when people are suicidal, they often mistakenly believe that they are doing their friends and relatives a favor by taking themselves out of the world and these irrational beliefs often drive their behavior.

All i have to say:

May they find the peace in heaven That they could not find on earth.

Adolescents are very vulnerable! It is very dangerous leaving behind our childhood forever. We start to find obstacles and people don't receive us like before.

Redcaped, stop coming into every thread with bs comments.

Second, it's not that she couldn't find peace, she didn't try looking too far clearly.

-AC

Like anyone else sooner or later.

Originally posted by GCG
All i have to say:

May they find the peace in heaven That they could not find on earth.

The above comment is epitaph.

I too believe that 'Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start all over again' is the way to go.

Originally posted by botankus
When are people going to realize that no life-changing decisions (other than college) should be made before the age of 22????

Hell, if I had followed through with all the wild fantasies that I thought would change my world and HAD to be made (or else I would die if they weren't changed - no pun intended) when I was that age, my life would have screwed up, too.

Exactly.


GCG, your mistaken. She's not going to heaven, she's going to hell. She killed herself, and that's bad.

Originally posted by Smasandian
Exactly.


GCG, your mistaken. She's not going to heaven, she's going to hell. She killed herself, and that's bad. Who told you that? Any reliable source?

Some people just don't care where they end up and would prefer anything to what they're going through, even "HELL".

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
Some people just don't care where they end up and would prefer anything to what they're going through, even "HELL".

is it comprehensible..... Funny thing, I totally agree with you....although it is certainly a very short view of the Future.

Originally posted by Smasandian
Exactly.


GCG, your mistaken. She's not going to heaven, she's going to hell. She killed herself, and that's bad.

Right, l forgot about the Christian value. Lets say 'Afterlife' instead of heaven and not be too insolent to her familiy.

Hmms. My heart goes out to her and her family. But I can't pinpoint the blame on the bullies. THousands of kids get picked on, its just how life is. But to sole put the blame on the bullys, yea that doesn't fly. There had to be more to this situation then JUST that. Life isn't fair, never will be, you just gotta learn how to deal with it. And thats is what the young girl should have done. Dealt with it.

I guess in her mind she was "DEALING" with it.

is it comprehensible.....

Yes, most likely it was.

I feel more sensitive to that type of person. I can't help but feel bad for them. I hold no ill thoughts to them b/c they did what they did.

I wonder if she was on Paxil? or some other depression drug.
They say they can higher the chances of thoughts of suicide and suicide itself.

is it comprehensible.....

That's one thing I don't agree with. It's not cowardly to say "Yeah, my actions will result in (possibly) eternal death, still gonna do it." then actually do it.

-AC

It's a great risk generations depend on young people!

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
I feel more sensitive to that type of person. I can't help but feel bad for them. I hold no ill thoughts to them b/c they did what they did.

I wonder if she was on Paxil? or some other depression drug.
They say they caan higher the chances of thoughts of suicide and suicide itself.

is it comprehensible.....

Yeah I agree with you, 100%, but the thing that hurts is the fact that they rarely see the goodness that they have in front of them. They don't balance it out with the people who love them oppose to the stupid people who don't.

Any depressive meds can higher the suicidal thoughts and actions. It's been tested n proven.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's one thing I don't agree with. It's not cowardly to say "Yeah, my actions will result in (possibly) eternal death, still gonna do it." then actually do it.

-AC

Well I think a decision is just that..a decision....so if she wanted tio die...good for her...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well I think a decision is just that..a decision....so if she wanted tio die...good for her...
but was it good for the people around her.

I would say that killing yourself is kind of selfish.

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
but was it good for the people around her.

I would say that killing yourself is kind of selfish.

is it comprehensible.....

Probably not...but not the problem of teh girl, now is it?

I'd say not killing yourself is as well.

You think by choosing not to kill herself, she would have been selfiish?

is it comprehensible.....

Education holds the solution and that should be at home. Why? Being educated is being changed, you leave behind your old believes and this effect sometimes causes disturbances in a psychological effect by age or situation. Not convenient at meeting places.

Originally posted by redcaped
Education holds the solution and that should be at home. Why? Being educated is being changed, you leave behind your old believes and this effect sometimes causes disturbances in a psychological effect by age or situation. Not convenient at meeting places.


WTF are you talking about!?!?

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
You think by choosing not to kill herself, she would have been selfiish?

is it comprehensible.....

I think either decision would be selfish. So, doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
WTF are you talking about!?!? hysterical

is it comprehensible.....

My cousin killed herself at age 15 and it is still affecting the family....

Is it effect or affect???

You were correct, Debs, and sorry to hear that.

"Effect" is a noun.

Originally posted by debbiejo
My cousin killed herself at age 15 and it is still affecting the family....

Is it effect or affect???

Affect I believe is right, but it has an effect on the family.

Man I hate those 2 words......I really do.........

Oh, don't worry about it Botankus...It was a long time ago...We were the same age and people that are soooo depressed as to take their own life's don't realize the hole that they leave. She could of moved on from her depression, had a family...Totally forgot about the pain of the teen years, and people don't realize that pain passes. Depression for your teen years is only temporary.

Originally posted by botankus
You were correct, Debs, and sorry to hear that.

"Effect" is a noun.

We had that before.."effect" is a verb too.

Originally posted by Bardock42
We had that before.."effect" is a verb too.
i'm trying to find an example where it's used as a verb, but i can't think of one.

Do you have an example?

is it comprehensible.....

Yep, you're right...just looked it up. But "Affect" is the correct word in this case.

Quit it with the "comprehensible".........

And BTW...I didn't hijack the thread about verbs and nouns...

Originally posted by botankus
Yep, you're right...just looked it up. But "Affect" is the correct word in this case. ...Yeah...got it right!!

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
i'm trying to find an example where it's used as a verb, but i can't think of one.

Do you have an example?

is it comprehensible.....

Yeah "This Song may effect a new style" for example.

Originally posted by botankus
Yep, you're right...just looked it up. But "Affect" is the correct word in this case.

Yeah I know, thanks to VVD for claring this up...haha

EMO EMO EMO EMO EMO EMO EMO

Originally posted by DanteMayCry
EMO EMO EMO EMO EMO EMO EMO

Not necessarily...Not all people depressed are Emo you know.

I wish they (|) knew about me before doing it.

perv

I'm sure.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
It's funny you place blame on everyone else who should have done something, but yet you haven't mentioned yourself helping in any way.

Maybe because I didn't know that this was happening to her, I just knew her. So stick that up your ass

Originally posted by Miss_Faye
Yeah I agree with you, 100%, but the thing that hurts is the fact that they rarely see the goodness that they have in front of them. They don't balance it out with the people who love them oppose to the stupid people who don't.

Any depressive meds can higher the suicidal thoughts and actions. It's been tested n proven.

For the first two weeks of taking most medical anti-depressents there is a 60% chance that they increase your thoughts and actions of suicide.

Originally posted by spidergrl
Maybe because I didn't know that this was happening to her, I just knew her. So stick that up your ass

Then how do you know anyone else knew this was happening to her? How do you know anyone else knew to stop it?

Originally posted by spidergrl
Im going to try and not get angry at the people who go "blah blah blah selfish selfish blah blah" Yes, its selfish, but look at the reasons she did this for, she couldn't HANDLE the life that people were making her deal with. For someone to/try kill themself, they're not in the right state of mind, to be making dicisions like that, therefore, shouldn't fully be blamed.
She had given life a chance ... for a year, and the teachers and all the assholes here, did jack all about it. They did nothing to help her, and this is what she ended up doing, I hope they feel at least a small bit guilty and maybe next time they see something like this happening, they'll get off their lazy fat asses and finally do something about it, and then maybe ... just maybe, they might save a life.



As I explained above, it is a selfish act, because for once in this world, your thinking about yourself, and only yourself, because you never do that. And you want to get rid of the pain thats all around you, thats bring you down and you don't see any other way of doing it. Your hurting so much, and you just don't see the people all around you, wanting to help you and make things better. Its a medical condition, your mentally unwell if you think about killing yourself

I know how you feel, and I know all too well how your friend must have felt.

Bullying occurs ALL the time in schools, yet nothing is done about it. Teachers turn a blind eye. I was at school once, and was teased, and nothing was ever done to help me. The teachers let it continue, even in class, I would have these people shouting things at me, throwing things at me, and the teachers would pretend not to see.

It got so bad I, myself, tried to commit suicide, twice. I guess I realised that I didn't want to die, because on both occasions, I called an ambulance.

I never wanted to die, I just wanted something to be done about the bullying. It saddens me to hear that kids take their lives because of it. It isn't enough to suspend the bullies, they come back to school as mad as hell, and hellbent on revenge.

It isn't enough to change schools, because that is just running from the problem.

Suicide is selfish, because it hurts so many people, but I don't feel anger toward the girl. I feel angry toward the school. They should have known something was wrong, and fixed it.

This is where the problem lies-in schools. Something needs to be done, and fast, before other lives are lost.

Originally posted by Makedde
I know how you feel, and I know all too well how your friend must have felt.

Bullying occurs ALL the time in schools, yet nothing is done about it. Teachers turn a blind eye. I was at school once, and was teased, and nothing was ever done to help me. The teachers let it continue, even in class, I would have these people shouting things at me, throwing things at me, and the teachers would pretend not to see.

It got so bad I, myself, tried to commit suicide, twice. I guess I realised that I didn't want to die, because on both occasions, I called an ambulance.

I never wanted to die, I just wanted something to be done about the bullying. It saddens me to hear that kids take their lives because of it. It isn't enough to suspend the bullies, they come back to school as mad as hell, and hellbent on revenge.

It isn't enough to change schools, because that is just running from the problem.

Suicide is selfish, because it hurts so many people, but I don't feel anger toward the girl. I feel angry toward the school. They should have known something was wrong, and fixed it.

This is where the problem lies-in schools. Something needs to be done, and fast, before other lives are lost.

Exactly. Fully agree

Originally posted by spidergrl
Exactly. Fully agree



People don't understand why people commit suicide because they have never felt bad enough to actually do it.

Originally posted by Makedde


People don't understand why people commit suicide because they have never felt bad enough to actually do it.

People can't understand why people commit suicide. It's a catch 22. In order for someone to truly understand they would have to do it. But by doing that, they lose their minds to death.

It's like the Meno paradox: You cannot find what you don't know, but you can't know it unless you find it.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
People can't understand why people commit suicide. It's a catch 22. In order for someone to truly understand they would have to do it. But by doing that, they lose their minds to death.

I think that if people knew what it was like to suffer from depression, and be miserable everyday, they'd be more sympathetic. I speak from experience, I know what it's like to feel like you can't go on. It all gets on top of you.

Originally posted by Makedde
I think that if people knew what it was like to suffer from depression, and be miserable everyday, they'd be more sympathetic. I speak from experience, I know what it's like to feel like you can't go on. It all gets on top of you.

There are plenty of people whom know what it's like to suffer from depression. It's rather common actually. It's just a matter of the people who don't get help are the ones that take their life. It's for those people to reach out if they feel their life is going down that path. I feel sorry for the ones whom resorted to suicide, don't get me wrong on that. But sometimes it takes more courage to reach out for help then to take your life.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
There are plenty of people whom know what it's like to suffer from depression. It's rather common actually. It's just a matter of the people who don't get help are the ones that take their life. It's for those people to reach out if they feel their life is going down that path. I feel sorry for the ones whom resorted to suicide, don't get me wrong on that. But sometimes it takes more courage to reach out for help then to take your life.

Lets take me then.
I reached out for help, been going to counciling and on anti-depressents ... but did that stop me just a few weeks ago for attempting to take my own life ... no it didn't.

Originally posted by spidergrl
Lets take me then.
I reached out for help, been going to counciling and on anti-depressents ... but did that stop me just a few weeks ago for attempting to take my own life ... no it didn't.

You don't need anti-depressents. Those do more harm then good. What's really the problem? Once you find that out, then talk to whom you truly trust. Not some stranger that has a degree. Trust me, I'm a psychology major. These people don't truly care about you. Go to someone you care about and talk about it. Not some shrink that thinks they know you in and out.

In fact, in one of my classes today a guy was making fun of a kid who came to his father a day ago saying he wanted to kill himself. Trust me, some of them care don't get me wrong, but most of them just want to get you out of there. They're so willing to throw pills at the person, but not willing to get under the persons skin. It's truly frightening. So much so that I'm thinking about changing my major.

People kill themself everyday, it's no big deal.

Originally posted by K.Diddy
People kill themself everyday, it's no big deal.

As Arnie said in Terminator 2, 'It's in your nature to destroy yourselves'.

I totally agree.

those who kill themselves deserve it. i just believe that because emo people shouldnt exist

go ahead kill yourself good riddance

Originally posted by K.Diddy
People kill themself everyday, it's no big deal.
Why isn't it a big deal?

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
Why isn't it a big deal?

is it comprehensible.....

Cause it's just one human of approximately 6 billion....no big deal at all actually.

Maybe not when you put it on a huge scale as that. But it is a big deal on a much smaller scale.

is it comprehensible.....

Stop it with the damn word!!bash

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
Maybe not when you put it on a huge scale as that. But it is a big deal on a much smaller scale.

is it comprehensible.....

I don't agree, but I guess it is a big deal for a few people. Still that doesn't make it a Big Deal for humankind..which should be the minimum standard to talk about "Big Deals" if it isn't stated to be differently defined.

Originally posted by Makedde
As Arnie said in Terminator 2, 'It's in your nature to destroy yourselves'.

I totally agree.

OMG, you're such a hypocrite. You were singing a different song then that a page back.

Originally posted by Smasandian
How can somebody be so selfish by killing herself?

You can put blame on the bullies for her dying, but they didnt take her life. She did, and nonbody can be blamed for that.

You are pretty judgemental. It takes great willpower for someone to kill himself/herself, self-preservation is a basic human instinct.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
OMG, you're such a hypocrite. You were singing a different song then that a page back.

I mean that quote with war and all. It's not in our nature to kill ourselves, but it is to kill each other. There's a difference.

here is a gun

pull the trigger emo kid

go ahead

see you in hell/next lifetime

Are you on speed, mate?

I think he actually is

You can keep that gun mate, Im sure you'll be needing that one soon!

Originally posted by Lord Melkor
You are pretty judgemental. It takes great willpower for someone to kill himself/herself, self-preservation is a basic human instinct.

It seems like you admire the person who committed suicide. It doesnt take willpower to kill yourself. It takes willpower to fight against the odds, or bullies, or whatever trouble your life is in. Your lazy if you commit suicide because you decided that it's easier just to kill yourself, instead of working out your problems.

Mr. Death is totally correct. Everybody suffers depression, it's somewhat the hip thing to have. Hell, everybody in my school who wasnt "popular" or didnt get the chicks or guys, said they had depression, but in reality, they didnt. All they had was a shitty day.

Originally posted by Smasandian
It seems like you admire the person who committed suicide. It doesnt take willpower to kill yourself.

It does, actually, you have to be strong enough emotionally to be able to go through with killing yourself.

People slash their wrists will often have one big gash across their wrists, with many little cut like stratches as well. This is because the scratches are the persons way of summing up enough courage to do that final cut. They often 'practice' first.

Originally posted by Makedde
It does, actually, you have to be strong enough emotionally to be able to go through with killing yourself.

People slash their wrists will often have one big gash across their wrists, with many little cut like stratches as well. This is because the scratches are the persons way of summing up enough courage to do that final cut. They often 'practice' first.

Well if they're slashing across their wrist that's not really an attempt to commit suicide. That's just wanting to hurt yourself.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Well if they're slashing across their wrist that's not really an attempt to commit suicide. That's just wanting to hurt yourself.

They are building up courage to take that final step.

Originally posted by spidergrl
Im going to try and not get angry at the people who go "blah blah blah selfish selfish blah blah" Yes, its selfish, but look at the reasons she did this for, she couldn't HANDLE the life that people were making her deal with. For someone to/try kill themself, they're not in the right state of mind, to be making dicisions like that, therefore, shouldn't fully be blamed.

So there for it is her fault

Originally posted by spidergrl
For the first two weeks of taking most medical anti-depressents there is a 60% chance that they increase your thoughts and actions of suicide.

Increase my thoughts?

Originally posted by Makedde
They are building up courage to take that final step.

Nope. I'm sorry, but it doesn't take courage to kill yourself, if you need courage, then they're is no way you need to kill yourself.

Originally posted by Smasandian
Nope. I'm sorry, but it doesn't take courage to kill yourself, if you need courage, then they're is no way you need to kill yourself.

If you have never tried to kill yourself, you have no idea whether it takes courage or not.

Originally posted by Makedde
If you have never tried to kill yourself, you have no idea whether it takes courage or not.

It's a double bladed sword though. Those that have killed themselves have no idea how much courage it takes to live on and get through your problems.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
It's a double bladed sword though. Those that have killed themselves have no idea how much courage it takes to live on and get through your problems.

Sometimes people think that nothing can be done to help them.

Originally posted by Makedde
Sometimes people think that nothing can be done to help them.

That's because they dont try.

Killing yourself is the cowards way out. Why?
When somebody kills themselves, they're doing it for themselves, nonbody else. They ruin other peoples lives in the process. People who love them are destroyed for years thinking thier the reason. How could that be courage?

Courage:
The state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery

How can you possible think that killing yourself be courage, when courage usually involves staying alive and fighting the odds?
Another example of courage:
It takes courage for an soldier to storm the beach of Normandy while its cowardly to run away from it.
Staying alive and fighting your problems is courage, while killing yourself because you dont want to live fix your problems is cowardly.

Also, the small scratches on the arm before the big cut is not "practice", its called self mutaliation.

You have obviously never tried to kill yourself. You have obviously never suffered from depression, or else you would know how hard it is to get out of the big black hole that sucks in and won't let go. You have idea. No idea at all.

Originally posted by Makedde
You have obviously never tried to kill yourself. You have obviously never suffered from depression, or else you would know how hard it is to get out of the big black hole that sucks in and won't let go. You have idea. No idea at all.

Not true, I know a great deal of people whom had "depression" and are now perfectly fine and stable. Hell, most of my friends have admitted to thinking about killing themselves. And now they look back on those years in shame.

I, myself, have gotten the short end of the stick during my preteen to young teen years. But I never once thought about killing myself. I was picked on all the time, but I was strong enough to decide that those people don't matter. Only how I view myself matters. And you know what? Once sophomore year in high school hit, my life is great now. So tell me how killing yourself is an act of courage?

Only kill yourself if you are less than perfect.

Otherwise it's just silly. Like a purple velvet hat with a flower on.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Once sophomore year in high school hit, my life is great now. So tell me how killing yourself is an act of courage?

She never answers the question. She responds with a question thinking that I dont know anything about depression.

So listen here,

One of my parents suffers from manic depression, angry managament and has an chemical inbalance in the brain. They have tried to kill themselves once by drinking draino. They have suffered this for 20 years of thier life. They still have the medical condition, which is controlled by drugs (they sometiems work)
So think, when your 14, living in a family composed of a step father and thier two kids, myself, having your mom attack all three of them with a knife occasionally, having your step brother call your mom an whore and then waking up one day, and seeing your mom carted off in a strecher because she tried to kill herself.
(That's not all that has happened)

How do you call that courage?

How the **** can you say I never experienced depression?

How can a person who suffers depression medically can still be fine and normal?

There is no courage in killing yourself, they're is no willpower. They're willpower in knowing you tried to kill yourself, and then get help.
Killing yourself is lazy and cowardly.

And lastly, please answer Mr Death and mines question. How is killing yourself and act of courage?

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Not true, I know a great deal of people whom had "depression" and are now perfectly fine and stable. Hell, most of my friends have admitted to thinking about killing themselves. And now they look back on those years in shame.

I, myself, have gotten the short end of the stick during my preteen to young teen years. But I never once thought about killing myself. I was picked on all the time, but I was strong enough to decide that those people don't matter. Only how I view myself matters. And you know what? Once sophomore year in high school hit, my life is great now. So tell me how killing yourself is an act of courage?

You are lucky, but please remember that everyone is different. We all deal in different ways. Some people are not as emotionally strong as others, and they should not be blamed for this.

Ok, but how is killing yourself an act of courage?
Im going to keep on asking until you actually give a response, and not a response that gives pity to people who kill themselves.

When you metion blame, do you mean blaming the person who kill themselves?
A person who kill themselves get all the blame, nonbody else. They're cowards, simple as that.

It is courage to take that step, it's not easy to just slash your wrists, or hang yourself. That takes courage.

Originally posted by Makedde
You are lucky, but please remember that everyone is different. We all deal in different ways. Some people are not as emotionally strong as others, and they should not be blamed for this.

They are not to be blamed for this? So then they were murdered? They didn't take their own lives?

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
They are not to be blamed for this? So then they were murdered? They didn't take their own lives?

They did take their own lives, but it's not their fault they couldn't overcome their suicidal thoughts. As I said, everyone is different.

Originally posted by Makedde
They did take their own lives, but it's not their fault they couldn't overcome their suicidal thoughts. As I said, everyone is different.

It might not be their fault that they couldn't over come their own thoughts, but yes they are to be blamed for commiting suicide. It was their thoughts, not anyone elses.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
It might not be their fault that they couldn't over come their own thoughts, but yes they are to be blamed for commiting suicide. It was their thoughts, not anyone elses.

You don't seem very understanding...I'd prefer if people did sort out their problems, but many can't deal with the pain. I think that instead of condeming these people, we should support them, and try to understand them more.

Originally posted by Makedde
You don't seem very understanding...I'd prefer if people did sort out their problems, but many can't deal with the pain. I think that instead of condemning these people, we should support them, and try to understand them more.

Don't quite understand how you think I'm not understanding. Placing blame has nothing to do with understanding their reasons.

You don't seem to get the difference between blame, and condemnation. If you kill yourself there is no one else to blame other then yourself. There's nothing else to it. It's your fault. Therefore the blame rests with you, and you alone. You don't seem to get that part, because you seem to want to blame others.

I am by no means condemning them. I'm simply stating that blame is all theirs.

Blame is sometimes hard to accept, for someone who may have tried to commit suicide, but failed. Saying it is there own fault and that they have no one to blame but themselves will not help them overcome their depression.

Originally posted by Makedde
Blame is sometimes hard to accept, for someone who may have tried to commit suicide, but failed. Saying it is there own fault and that they have no one to blame but themselves will not help them overcome their depression.

I don't mean to be cruel nor heartless, but they're already dead...They're depressed no more.

Originally posted by Makedde
They did take their own lives, but it's not their fault they couldn't overcome their suicidal thoughts. As I said, everyone is different.

Wouldnt it be courage to overcome those thoughts of killing themselves?

It cant be courage both ways.

Also, sometimes, when you try to kill yourself, and survive by other means, getting blamed and relizing the shame actually helps out.

Originally posted by Smasandian
Wouldnt it be courage to overcome those thoughts of killing themselves?

It takes a lot more courage to overcome your feelings, yes, but as I said, everyone is different. Some of us can withstand great emotional pain, others can't. These people who kill themselves would likely have very low self esteem, can't stand up for themselves, and can't withstand emotional pain. A person like that won't ask for help, they don't have the capacity to do that. This is why family and friends need to watch out for these things, the signs of depression.

I have seen parents of children who have killed themselves go on TV saying 'We had no idea he/she was so depressed'. Bullshit. When your child is living under the same roof as you, you pay attention to what that child is doing. The kid can try to hide the fact that he or she is depressed, but they can't hide it completely. Families just seem to ignore their kids, thinking they just snap out of it, but it doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by spidergrl
Please let me know if this is somehow FAIR?

A girl, for the whole of last year (2005) got bullied by alot of people in my school, no real/main reason why, a teenage thing, where its kewl somehow by making other people feel like utter sh!t.
So anyway, the holidays came, and school just started back, and she doesn't return. Why, because a few weeks before school, she kills herself (hung herself).
How do people have the right to take other peoples lives? To push them so far to the edge and then over?
Such is life. People suck. If you don't learn that, stuff like this will happen.

Originally posted by JKozzy
Such is life. People suck. If you don't learn that, stuff like this will happen.

Thank God you weren't bullied.

Plenty of people are bullied yet don't kill themselves.

Originally posted by Lana
Plenty of people are bullied yet don't kill themselves.

Everyone has a different emotionally capicity than others. Some people can handle emotional pain, others can't.

I'm about the last person on earth you need to explain stuff like that to.

But Koz is right - life isn't fair. Stuff like that happens. And it's not fair, but neither is anything else.

Originally posted by spidergrl
Please let me know if this is somehow FAIR?

A girl, for the whole of last year (2005) got bullied by alot of people in my school, no real/main reason why, a teenage thing, where its kewl somehow by making other people feel like utter sh!t.
So anyway, the holidays came, and school just started back, and she doesn't return. Why, because a few weeks before school, she kills herself (hung herself).
How do people have the right to take other peoples lives? To push them so far to the edge and then over?


Rule # 1. Never, NEVER post anything like this at KMC if you are expecting a response filled with any type of compassion or understanding for your feelings because you wont be getting it. It doesnt exist amoung most of these people. And those be my final words in this thread.

Originally posted by Makedde
Thank God you weren't bullied. Who says I wasn't?

Originally posted by JKozzy
Who says I wasn't?

If you were, you were lucky you were emotionally strong enough to deal with it.

Across the oceans of time, far worse things have happened(not that I take this lightly, very unfortunate when somone is so beaten down they take their own life.)


As previously said in this thread ' people suck '. It is a great shame we couldnt all be raised in a proper world...

Originally posted by Makedde
It takes a lot more courage to overcome your feelings, yes, but as I said, everyone is different. Some of us can withstand great emotional pain, others can't. These people who kill themselves would likely have very low self esteem, can't stand up for themselves, and can't withstand emotional pain. A person like that won't ask for help, they don't have the capacity to do that. This is why family and friends need to watch out for these things, the signs of depression.

I have seen parents of children who have killed themselves go on TV saying 'We had no idea he/she was so depressed'. Bullshit. When your child is living under the same roof as you, you pay attention to what that child is doing. The kid can try to hide the fact that he or she is depressed, but they can't hide it completely. Families just seem to ignore their kids, thinking they just snap out of it, but it doesn't work that way.

So it doesnt take courage to kill yourself then?

Thats bullshit. I cant believe your blaming parents. What are the signs of being depressed?
Please tell me?
Parents know that they're something wrong, but they dont automatically assume that its depression and the kid will hang himself the next day. Generally, the parents ask the kid if everything is alright, and usually the kids goes, "nothing wrong".
And they're right to assume that everything will be okay, because it usually is. You tell it like everybody kills themselves, buts thats not true.
Also, parents generally dont know what kids go through right now. Its hard for parents to look for signs that they dont know exist. You gotta remember that parents today had a much horrible and terrifying world when they were kids.
But dont blame parents. Thats bullshit.
It's also funny that you blame everybody else except for the person who killed themselves. Its up to them to tell people if they're is something wrong, because kids today, dont tell parents shit.

Lastly, parents do pay attention, but kids are crafty if they dont want them to know something.
Case in point: I was a huge alchoholic when i was a teenager. I usually kept a 24, a couple of 40's of vodka and other assorted drinks in my room by hiding them. They never found it. Are they bad parents?

Originally posted by Smasandian
So it doesnt take courage to kill yourself then?

Thats bullshit. I cant believe your blaming parents. What are the signs of being depressed?
Please tell me?
Parents know that they're something wrong, but they dont automatically assume that its depression and the kid will hang himself the next day. Generally, the parents ask the kid if everything is alright, and usually the kids goes, "nothing wrong".
And they're right to assume that everything will be okay, because it usually is. You tell it like everybody kills themselves, buts thats not true.
Also, parents generally dont know what kids go through right now. Its hard for parents to look for signs that they dont know exist. You gotta remember that parents today had a much horrible and terrifying world when they were kids.
But dont blame parents. Thats bullshit.
It's also funny that you blame everybody else except for the person who killed themselves. Its up to them to tell people if they're is something wrong, because kids today, dont tell parents shit.

Lastly, parents do pay attention, but kids are crafty if they dont want them to know something.
Case in point: I was a huge alchoholic when i was a teenager. I usually kept a 24, a couple of 40's of vodka and other assorted drinks in my room by hiding them. They never found it. Are they bad parents?



First and foremost the bullies were to blame, this behavior wouldnt be tolerated in a proper world. There is some blame on the parents...Any sign that your child is depressed should immediately be acted on if your a decent parent. I dont think any blame should be put on the suicide victim, if you put yourself in a similar situation to hers you would probably understand.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
First and foremost the bullies were to blame, this behavior wouldnt be tolerated in a proper world. There is some blame on the parents...Any sign that your child is depressed should immediately be acted on if your a decent parent. I dont think any blame should be put on the suicide victim, if you put yourself in a similar situation to hers you would probably understand.

Most of us have admitted we've been in a similiar situation. And what do you mean it wouldn't be tolerated in a proper world? Unless they physically touched her, they did nothing wrong in the eyes of the state. As long as they didn't verbally threaten her, it's called freedom of speech.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
First and foremost the bullies were to blame, this behavior wouldnt be tolerated in a proper world. There is some blame on the parents...Any sign that your child is depressed should immediately be acted on if your a decent parent. I dont think any blame should be put on the suicide victim, if you put yourself in a similar situation to hers you would probably understand.

If you read the post, I have been, and I'm still alive.

The problem is not that parents dont act on what the child has, the problem is that parents dont know what thier child is going throught.

How many times have you told your parents to **** off and get out of your business?
How many times have you not told your parents about what is happening in your life?

Its the fact of life in the nuclear family. Kids are different than parents because its different times. Just because your child is sad doesnt automatically mean that he is depressed.

Why dont you blame a suicide victim?
What happens if the suicide victim didnt showcase that they were depressed (its pretty easy to do it), and then suddenly offs themselves. What would you say if this person was your little brother who you loved dearly, and now he's not there because he didnt have any "signs". Wouldnt you feel angry because he didnt ask for help.

Suicide victims get all the blame because they made the decision, nonbody else even if it destroys whole families and thier friend for the rest of the lives. But its okay, they were depressed. So its allright.

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2337/supermanalex20ross2mk.jpg

I read almost all of the posts and all i can say is wow, when you say dont expect and compassion you were right. Anyone who can't deal with life can choose to kill themselves or not its up to them. Everything begins with choice. Some choose to bully, some choose to commit suicide. If you are going to put blame on the bullies then i might as well blame you for knowing this and sitting back with your thumb up your ass, and THEN being the geneis you are posting you "sympithy" thread about your "friend". You shouldnt come in here with a thread as such while you were just sitting back enjoying the show. Congrats to you man. No matter who you put blame on wont change the fact that shes gone and shes not comming back.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
First and foremost the bullies were to blame, this behavior wouldnt be tolerated in a proper world. There is some blame on the parents...Any sign that your child is depressed should immediately be acted on if your a decent parent. I dont think any blame should be put on the suicide victim, if you put yourself in a similar situation to hers you would probably understand.

Who told her to commit suicide? Not the bullies

Originally posted by spidergrl
Please let me know if this is somehow FAIR?

A girl, for the whole of last year (2005) got bullied by alot of people in my school, no real/main reason why, a teenage thing, where its kewl somehow by making other people feel like utter sh!t.
So anyway, the holidays came, and school just started back, and she doesn't return. Why, because a few weeks before school, she kills herself (hung herself).
How do people have the right to take other peoples lives? To push them so far to the edge and then over?


You can't say whether it's fair or not. The bullies may have caused upset but at the end of the day, she chose to take her life and it is a sin to put that burdon on someone else.

Originally posted by TheOne101
I read almost all of the posts and all i can say is wow, when you say dont expect and compassion you were right. Anyone who can't deal with life can choose to kill themselves or not its up to them. Everything begins with choice. Some choose to bully, some choose to commit suicide. If you are going to put blame on the bullies then i might as well blame you for knowing this and sitting back with your thumb up your ass, and THEN being the geneis you are posting you "sympithy" thread about your "friend". You shouldnt come in here with a thread as such while you were just sitting back enjoying the show. Congrats to you man. No matter who you put blame on wont change the fact that shes gone and shes not comming back. Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Who told her to commit suicide? Not the bullies Originally posted by Eternal Turmoil
You can't say whether it's fair or not. The bullies may have caused upset but at the end of the day, she chose to take her life and it is a sin to put that burdon on someone else. Yup.

Originally posted by Smasandian
If you read the post, I have been, and I'm still alive.

The problem is not that parents dont act on what the child has, the problem is that parents dont know what thier child is going throught.

How many times have you told your parents to **** off and get out of your business?
How many times have you not told your parents about what is happening in your life?

Its the fact of life in the nuclear family. Kids are different than parents because its different times. Just because your child is sad doesnt automatically mean that he is depressed.

Why dont you blame a suicide victim?
What happens if the suicide victim didnt showcase that they were depressed (its pretty easy to do it), and then suddenly offs themselves. What would you say if this person was your little brother who you loved dearly, and now he's not there because he didnt have any "signs". Wouldnt you feel angry because he didnt ask for help.

Suicide victims get all the blame because they made the decision, nonbody else even if it destroys whole families and thier friend for the rest of the lives. But its okay, they were depressed. So its allright.


Since you are indeed still alive, your situation wasnt bad enough for self-murder. Believe me anyone can be driven to that point in the right situation.


There are signs that a victim of depression simply cant hide no matter how much they try to hold it in. I dont know maybe Im just very good at reading people, but I can always tell who is depressed at my school and who isnt.


Im usually open to my parents...I understand the situation may be different in alot of households but oh well it really depends on the determination of the parent to protect their child.


Going back to that point, I would be able to tell if a family member was depressed enough that they would be capable of suicide. If somehow I didnt see it....well...yes I would be angry and deeply saddened but everyone does have the option to end their life if they dont want to live it anymore.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Since you are indeed still alive, your situation wasnt bad enough for self-murder. I don't really think that's for you to decide.
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
everyone does have the option to end their life if they dont want to live it anymore. Obviously the option's there, but if they take it, they're awfully selfish for not considering the impact upon others, not to mention that there are always alternatives to taking one's life.

Exactly what JKozzy said.

People can kill themselves, but to think I should feel sorry for them, thats entire different thing.

Originally posted by JKozzy
I don't really think that's for you to decide.




Obviously the option's there, but if they take it, they're awfully selfish for not considering the impact upon others, not to mention that there are always alternatives to taking one's life.


For the first statement, your right...perhaps Smasandian is just a stronger person. Regardless, being weak(within reason) is not something that a person should be blamed for...no one should have to be physically, mentally or emotionally abused.


For the second statement, my view is opposite to yours. I agree with you that every step should be taken to heal a victim of depression, suicide should always be a last resort. But here is where I disagree, if nothing can be done then it is selfish of us to prevent somone from taking a life that wholly belongs to them. Which is more merciful to the victim? To finnaly have relief or continue their suffering? If it was somone I cared about then I would put their well-being above my own.

The problem is that it's entirely treatable. If the person is depressed, killing themselves is an easy way out because they can be treated.
There is not such thing as a last resort when it comes to depression. They're is always some other treatment, drug, or activity that can make the person less depressed.

Because of this, somebody who kills themselves is viewed as being selfish because generally, they are too lazy to go and find help. Most people who are depressed and get help, dont kill themselves later on. It's the people who dont ask for help that do.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Which is more merciful to the victim? To finnaly have relief or continue their suffering? If it was somone I cared about then I would put their well-being above my own. Nobody knows for sure that 'relief' comes after death. For all we know, it could be eternal suffering in the bowels of hell, for taking their own life.

I would like to start off by saying that it was not the girls falt for killing herself.She did not ask to be bullied . I think that it is awful that someone could push somebody else into doing things like that. The people who were bullying her did not only make her sad and upset but they also have caused her friends and family alot of pain and I know what it feels like to have lost someone to suicide.My grandad did the same thing by hangigng himself,he was also trying to get away from something but for his sake I am not going to say what. But I would like to ask where her friends and family were at this time in her life.

Originally posted by x Jordz x
:But I would like to ask where her friends and family were at this time in her life.
They were probably busy existing on planet Earth since the girl didn't ask for help. Maybe she bullied them, and they were scared to approach her.

Originally posted by x Jordz x
I would like to start off by saying that it was not the girls falt for killing herself. That's an oxymoron. It's completely her fault. She pulled the trigger, stabbed the fatal stab, whatever she did. It's a fact.

Its such a waste of life when people kill themselves..... i was bullied something terrible at high school and i didnt know why and it made me really bad i refused to leave the house at certain points but never thought of ending my own life...now im slightly bit older, i now seem them for what they really are there not scary /there cowards that are just doing it to look big . and now when i see them i cant help but chuckle to myself ... but i still feel for those that dont manage to cope

Apparently she had no escape as some of us do. I.E. a forum or a chat room, etc. If she was at KMC she totally woulda been goin all Kun Fu on those bullies' asses. guranteed