Darth Revan vs. Kyp Durron and Kyle Katarn

zephiel7

^

exactly

Exar was a coward and committed suicide in the end. He failed to conquer anything except for a group of primitive Massassi. Accomplishment wise i believe Revan is the superior.

But my point is through force prowess. Exar defeated Vodo but we have argued back and forth on this matter. From the evidence, I cannot accept that Vodo's staff was stronger than a lightsaber. Also, I just can't see him stronger than Malak simply because he "empowered his staff." Experience has no bearing when your dealing with prodigies since the trend in Star Wars is that experienced individuals get owned by prodigies

Giant blasts of force energies are not uncommon amongst great sith lords/ Jedi. Because Exar Kun can fire these giant blasts of energy doesn't mean much. Sidious could conjure a giant force storm, and Revan had could create storms large enough to defeat Teranteks, dark Jedi, and as clearly stated in the game masses of "Rakatans and their Rancors".

w00t2112

Originally posted by zephiel7
^

exactly

Exar was a coward and committed suicide in the end. He failed to conquer anything except for a group of primitive Massassi. Accomplishment wise i believe Revan is the superior.

But my point is through force prowess. Exar defeated Vodo but we have argued back and forth on this matter. From the evidence, I cannot accept that Vodo's staff was stronger than a lightsaber. Also, I just can't see him stronger than Malak simply because he "empowered his staff." Experience has no bearing when your dealing with prodigies since the trend in Star Wars is that experienced individuals get owned by prodigies

Giant blasts of force energies are not uncommon amongst great sith lords/ Jedi. Because Exar Kun can fire these giant blasts of energy doesn't mean much. Sidious could conjure a giant force storm, and Revan had could create storms large enough to defeat Teranteks, dark Jedi, and as clearly stated in the game masses of "Rakatans and their Rancors".

Clearly a state of fanboyism, Vodo said that Exar was his most formidable student he had ever trained...over a period of 600 years that would mean alot, and the comic clearly states vodo can make his staff as strong as a lightsaber, Exar Kun, held off thousands of jedi, long enough to preserve his spirit, and where is the evidence all the sithlords can shoot the beams exar kun did?

as well, how can malak who had like at most 20- 30 years experience match one of the greatest jedi master at the time, vodo, as well yoda had 900 years experience and his powerful, because? because of his experience and the knowledge given to him made him so.

zephiel7

Clearly a state of fanboyism, Vodo said that Exar was his most formidable student he had ever trained...over a period of 600 years that would mean alot, and the comic clearly states vodo can make his staff as strong as a lightsaber, Exar Kun, held off thousands of jedi, long enough to preserve his spirit, and where is the evidence all the sithlords can shoot the beams exar kun did?

Revan was stated my many to be the most powerful Jedi/Sith of the KOTOR era. This comes from Vrook, Vandar, Zhar, Dorak, Atris, Zez Kai, Kavar, Bastila, Traya, Sion, and even from Malak who would rather slice off his jaw than admit it wink

.

Exar held of thousands of Republic ship long enough to commit suicide? Bah, that is no real accomplishment. Revan was winning a flat out war against the Republic. Anyways I am straying away from force prowess.

They can't all shoot out giant blasts like the one Exar shot out. Do you expect Star Wars to become some DBZ fest? I meant every Sith Lord has mastered the force to the extent that they each can use it to perform feats of mass destruction. Palpatine's and Revan's force storm for instance were just as destructive as Exar's giant blasts.

malak who had like at most 20- 30 years experience match one of the greatest jedi master at the time

Malak who was rumoured to be the greatest lightsaber duelist that could contend with Revan? The same Malak who easily defeated Kavar, the most reknowned duelist of the Jedi Order? The Malak who could control and became empowered by the Star Forge that destroyed countless other Sith Lords?

Yes I think he could easily contend with Vodo Bass.

Darth_Glentract

Originally posted by zephiel7
Revan was stated my many to be the most powerful Jedi/Sith of the KOTOR era. This comes from Vrook, Vandar, Zhar, Dorak, Atris, Zez Kai, Kavar, Bastila, Traya, Sion, and even from Malak who would rather slice off his jaw than admit it wink

.

That doesn't compare to the strongest out of a 600 year period. The fact that you name a lot of people as if hoping to make Revan look more impressive people is stupid. If I can beat 10 people in a fight, but not at the same time, it doesn't make me uber or anything.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Exar held of thousands of Republic ship long enough to commit suicide? Bah, that is no real accomplishment. Revan was winning a flat out war against the Republic. Anyways I am straying away from force prowess.

Put down the pipe dude, you're being ridiculous.

Originally posted by zephiel7
They can't all shoot out giant blasts like the one Exar shot out. Do you expect Star Wars to become some DBZ fest? I meant every Sith Lord has mastered the force to the extent that they each can use it to perform feats of mass destruction. Palpatine's and Revan's force storm for instance were just as destructive as Exar's giant blasts.

No, not as destructive. Cut the fanboy BS.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Malak who was rumoured to be the greatest lightsaber duelist that could contend with Revan? The same Malak who easily defeated Kavar, the most reknowned duelist of the Jedi Order? The Malak who could control and became empowered by the Star Forge that destroyed countless other Sith Lords?

Yes I think he could easily contend with Vodo Bass.

No one cares what you think because you are a total fanboy. Malak didn't easily defeat Kavar; it's likely Kavar sliced his jaw off. You don't have any proof that being empowered by the SF makes you more powerful then Vodo. The greatest lightsaber duelist? Another pathetic statement, fanboy. He obviously was not as Revan defeated him. Then there is Tulak Hord, who is said by Traya to make more recent lightsaber fighters look like children with toys. That includes Malak.

Numan

Revan was also able to discover arguably the two most valuable artifacts from Korriban - Ajunta Pall's sword and and Tulak Hord's holocron. BTW Glentract you are probably the biggest fanboy there is in this forum and you cannot see past the fact that the New Jedi Order was not that great.

Fishy

Its actually very unlikely Kavar cut of Malak his jaw, its far more likely that Revan did it based on the evidence we have.

And Malak was considered the second greatest lightsaber duellist in his era, that doens't include Tulak Hord because Tulak Hord was dead... And if Kreia her quote is right then Tulak would also be better then Exar Kun.

I also don't see how Vodo his age makes him all powerful, really the evidence for Vodo is the same kind of evidence thats used for a lot of other people and easily thrown away. Btw: Vandar isn't young either, perhaps not 600 years old but he still calls Revan his greatest.

Kreia calls Revan the most powerful there was and she lived in the time of Kun. Does that make Revan more powerful? No... Its all a bullshit argument.

Point is, try to prove Vodo is more powerful then Malak. You can't, try to prove otherwise you can't. Ergo the entire argument is bullshit.

Numan

"Its actually very unlikely Kavar cut of Malak his jaw, its far more likely that Revan did it based on the evidence we have."

When would he have done it? Before Malak betrayed Revan, the only way would be if they were sparring, and that is very unlikely.

tdtd

Too many fan boys here and in the end you can't clearly state who is more powerful out of Revan and Kun..

Fishy

Originally posted by Numan
"Its actually very unlikely Kavar cut of Malak his jaw, its far more likely that Revan did it based on the evidence we have."

When would he have done it? Before Malak betrayed Revan, the only way would be if they were sparring, and that is very unlikely.

Start up a game of Kotor load a few levels or whatever, eventually it will say that Darth Revan and Malak fought for control Revan won and Malak took upon the role of apprentice.

Now what is more likely?

That a Jedi and a sith in a fight to the death would for some reason both end up hurting each other so badly that neither of them could continue to fight and that they would just have to run away. And that then for some reason Malak who was now unable to breath (just look at his wounds...) would find a Sith that would let him live and get out of there... And if he would have found a Sith then would there not have been more Sith that would in the same time go after Kavar who was also mortally wounded.

If there were Jedi there that saved Kavar when he retreated why didn't those Jedi finish of Malak, and if there were Sith there that saved Malak then why didn't they kill him to get a higher rank? Afterall kill the apprentice and you become the apprentice.

Revan on the other hand had no reason to kill Malak after he won the fight, in fact we know he didn't, he would have been in the middle of a sith group to make them know who trully controlled the Sith and he would have ordered somebody to restore Malak. Disobeying the Dark Lord means dead, so they wouldn't kill Malak to take his place in that particulair situation.

(I could go on and on about this but I think this explains enough)

Numan

Originally posted by Fishy
Start up a game of Kotor load a few levels or whatever, eventually it will say that Darth Revan and Malak fought for control Revan won and Malak took upon the role of apprentice.

Now what is more likely?

That a Jedi and a sith in a fight to the death would for some reason both end up hurting each other so badly that neither of them could continue to fight and that they would just have to run away. And that then for some reason Malak who was now unable to breath (just look at his wounds...) would find a Sith that would let him live and get out of there... And if he would have found a Sith then would there not have been more Sith that would in the same time go after Kavar who was also mortally wounded.

If there were Jedi there that saved Kavar when he retreated why didn't those Jedi finish of Malak, and if there were Sith there that saved Malak then why didn't they kill him to get a higher rank? Afterall kill the apprentice and you become the apprentice.

Revan on the other hand had no reason to kill Malak after he won the fight, in fact we know he didn't, he would have been in the middle of a sith group to make them know who trully controlled the Sith and he would have ordered somebody to restore Malak. Disobeying the Dark Lord means dead, so they wouldn't kill Malak to take his place in that particulair situation.

Firstly I never said that it was likely Kavar sliced Malak's jaw. I was just disagreeing about the fact that Revan would have caused it. Are you sure that it says that on KOTOR though. I have just started playing it again so if it does I will most likely come across it.

Fishy

Originally posted by Numan
Firstly I never said that it was likely Kavar sliced Malak's jaw. I was just disagreeing about the fact that Revan would have caused it. Are you sure that it says that on KOTOR though. I have just started playing it again so if it does I will most likely come across it.

100% just play through it, you'll see it eventually... If not start over and try again stick out tongue

Numan

I'm sure I will but can you be a bit more specific on where and when you hear it?

Fishy

No, its in a loading screen you can see it whenever you load an area... Its completely random.

Darth_Glentract

Originally posted by Numan
Revan was also able to discover arguably the two most valuable artifacts from Korriban - Ajunta Pall's sword and and Tulak Hord's holocron. BTW Glentract you are probably the biggest fanboy there is in this forum and you cannot see past the fact that the New Jedi Order was not that great.

Excuse me? I'm a NJO fanboy? When have I ever made a fanboy-like statement? I've always backed my statements up, which I might add, you do not as you have no proof that Revan got Ajunta Pall's sword or Tulak's holocron at all and have completely failed to make a valid argument for it or what the repercussions of him having those would be.

Fishy

Actually Ajunta Pall his blade has been confirmed by Kreia... Revan has the blade.. She also says it might be the reason he hasn't returned that perhaps the power of the blade destroyed him like it destroyed Ajunta Pall... Of course she isn't sure on that.

Tulak Hord his holocron, its unknown what happened to it. It would be the most logical assumption to make when we say Revan has it. I mean by the time when he once again becomes a Jedi or a Dark Lord he would know of the Holocron, if he's an idiot he would leave it alone if he has any brain he would claim it for his own (light or dark) if he hadn't done so already which is actually far more likely if you ask me. Still there is no prove for that and logical assumptions like this are easily thrown away in vs debates so i'm not even going to argue he has it.

Numan

Well you wave on about Kyp Durron like 24/7. Killing a leviathan and controlling a black hole isn't that impressive, but you rave on about him doing it. You also overrate Kam Solusar and Corran Horn. And I didn't make a valid argument for what I said because I wasn't that keen on getting into a long debate over it. look in the Ragnos vurses Luke thread and tou will see that I have backed up what I have said.

tdtd

Fishy is right, If you play KOTOR you see Revan get's Pall's blade and doesn't go insane controlling it, from what I understand. Also it is very unclear about Revan's disappearance into the outer rim as we all know, and it will all come together with KOTOR III

Fishy

No you haven't...

Numan

What part of what I have said hasen't been backed up? I backed up the part about the true sith being followers. I was able to bring attention to the fact that there is no real proof to suggest Ragnos' power. There is nothing else I could have backed up so either you are seriously dumb and unable to interpret clear information given to you, or you still hold an internet grudge over me from the Tulak versus Yoda thread.

Faunus

Why? You're the one who got owned. . .

Fishy

Well like Faunus said why would I hold a grudge over that?

the only thing is you haven't provided proof for anything, you said a lot of maybe's and perhaps and then stated them as true and asked to prove something thats already been stated as true.

You are going against what is stated and a theory backed up with no evidence but perhaps they were and perhaps they did this and perhaps they did that is not going to be accepted.

zephiel7

That doesn't compare to the strongest out of a 600 year period. The fact that you name a lot of people as if hoping to make Revan look more impressive people is stupid. If I can beat 10 people in a fight, but not at the same time, it doesn't make me uber or anything.

What I am trying to say that Vodo simply calling Exar the greatest Jedi ever doesn't amount to conclusive evidence that Exar is better than Revan. If you red Woot's post, then you would know what I was trying to get at. Revan has been called the best by many, however simply being called the best doesn't amount to clear evidence that the person in question really is the best.

No, not as destructive. Cut the fanboy BS.

Yes as destructive. Admit it. If you want to try to prove that it is not as destructive, I'll be happy to respond.

Malak didn't easily defeat Kavar; it's likely Kavar sliced his jaw off. .

Malak's jaw was sliced of by Revan not Kavar.

"You don't have any proof that being empowered by the SF makes you more powerful then Vodo"

He was not only empowered by it, he could control it. Bastila says so in the holocron on Korriban, that none of the Sith Lords (during the KOTOR time period) could control its power without being killed.

Vodo empowered his staff to become stronger than a lightsaber. The fact that he pulled this off really doesn't say much. NJO Luke didn't do this, DE Sidious didn't do this, Revan and Exar didn't do this (what a fun game it would be if you were forced to equip an empowered staff, eh?)Afterwards he lost to Kun. Not much huh?

The entire Jedi order feared Malak. They knew that the only chance they would have of defeating him is if they turned Revan against him.

The star forge is described as a giant space station with the power of a star. It could mass produce ships, but it also possessed immense darkside energies. When Revan fought Bastila, she was continually renewed by the power of the Star Forge, because she was Sith

The greatest lightsaber duelist?Then there is Tulak Hord, who is said by Traya to make more recent lightsaber fighters look like children with toys

The greatest lightsaber duelist other than Revan. We are talking about duelists after Tulak Hord. Tulak hord outclassing Malak doesn't count for much. Under the same logic from Kreia's quote, Hord would be a better duelist than Exar.

Faunus

Who's debated that last point?

Numan

Originally posted by Fishy
Well like Faunus said why would I hold a grudge over that?

the only thing is you haven't provided proof for anything, you said a lot of maybe's and perhaps and then stated them as true and asked to prove something thats already been stated as true.

You are going against what is stated and a theory backed up with no evidence but perhaps they were and perhaps they did this and perhaps they did that is not going to be accepted.

Dude if you want a long debate go to the other thread. I know too little about these NJO characters and I cannot remember too much about Revan so I am quite uninformed on the subject.

Fishy

I will don't worry about it..

Edit and Faunus I believe Glentract said something about that...

IKC

Vodo says to Exar that he is "the most formidable student (he has) ever had." Vodo is 600 years old and an almost peerless Jedi master in a martial order thousands strong.

Tell me who has called Revan the best. I want real, accurate quotes. Revan is rarely described with absolutes.

First you're asking the opposition to prove a negative.

Second, what the hell are you talking about?

According to your speculation. It's said that a Jedi performed the act.

Good deal, so a bunch of wannabe "Sith" dark jedi couldn't control a technological terror. This makes Malak greater than Vodo how?

It doesn't say much except that it's an unquestionably powerful use of the Force that a fanboy is trying to denigrate so that his precious character might look better.

By that logic, anything Revan does "doesn't say much."

Obviously they didn't fear him as much as they feared Kun (where's your source for them fearing Malak, by the way?).

http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/8518/alljedi18mm.th.jpg
http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/4686/alljedi25mz.th.jpg
http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/2329/alljedi35kv.th.jpg
http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/3232/alljedi45zv.th.jpg

By your feat wars logic, Exar is instantly greater than everyone because there's no other instance where the entire thousands-strong Jedi Order showed up to defeat a single entity.

And the generators aboard ISD's are described as miniature suns. So what? By your example, anyone who uses the Dark Side would be "empowered" were they to just step on the Star Forge.

And you don't offer any proof for that statement, I note.

Not at all. She references the people of the time using words like "we" and "us."

Since Exar Kun is not alive, she cannot possibly be referring to him, especially since there's no proof that she's ever seen him.

Fishy

IKC read my post about the Revan, Malak Jaw thing it explains everything really...

Anyways I still don't see a reason to call Vodo greater then Malak or Malak greater then Vodo all we have is a feat war between the two.. Nice big deal.

Darth_Glentract

Originally posted by Numan
Well you wave on about Kyp Durron like 24/7. Killing a leviathan and controlling a black hole isn't that impressive, but you rave on about him doing it. You also overrate Kam Solusar and Corran Horn. And I didn't make a valid argument for what I said because I wasn't that keen on getting into a long debate over it. look in the Ragnos vurses Luke thread and tou will see that I have backed up what I have said.

I haven't even been around for over a week. How would I be going on about Kyp 24/7 if I'm not here to do it? I've argued against Kyp in the past and there are plenty of people I have said you could defeat him. Just as you say I overrate Kam and Corran, I feel that you underrate them, which leaves us at an impass until you show how I overrate them. Until then stfu.

Hello Friend

"Revan was stated my many to be the most powerful Jedi/Sith of the KOTOR era. This comes from Vrook, Vandar, Zhar, Dorak, Atris, Zez Kai, Kavar, Bastila, Traya, Sion, and even from Malak who would rather slice off his jaw than admit it wink. "

Except I doubt any one of them have seen Exar Kun in action. The Rodian dude on Yavin has. And he says he can WTFPWN Revan or Malak.

tdtd

Sorry to tell you but you can't argue between the likes of Kun and Revan. Those two are the hardest out of anybody in my mind. And IKC I call you a fan boy because I haven't seen you defend anyone other than KUN and you get so angry when some of us don't think of Kun as uber powerful.

Hello Friend

Have we ever seen Kun put effort into anything anyways?

Darth_Glentract

Originally posted by tdtd
Sorry to tell you but you can't argue between the likes of Kun and Revan. Those two are the hardest out of anybody in my mind. And IKC I call you a fan boy because I haven't seen you defend anyone other than KUN and you get so angry when some of us don't think of Kun as uber powerful.

Why can't we argue between the likes of Kun and Revan?

IKC

You seem to have epic intuitive powers, tdtd, if you can determine when I get angry by merely staring at black and white text. Bravo.

And you've been disproven before you even posted, by the way. Check the Canderous vs. Boba thread.

And no, their power is not hard to gauge. Revan is above average, definitely. He could probably beat Yoda. Exar is leagues above him in force power, lightsaber abilities, and dark side knowledge.

tdtd

Because this isn't like a Ragnos vs. Nadow or Kressh argument. You are arguing between 2 very powerful individuals that were the best in their respective times. They both have unbelievable abilities. How are you going to sit there and say Kun was better or Revan was better?

tdtd

Nice speculation IKC, It's like reading a lightsnake post... Tell me, if I tell you Kun was the most uber force user ever, would you sleep better?

IKC

Except Revan was never stated to be the (the is absolute. It would help if you learned this) best in his time. Revan has never "unbelievable abilities" on the level of what Exar Kun displays. Revan's access to knowledge was lesser than Kun's. Revan's lightsaber abilities are a big ?, whereas Kun just into Jedi Knighthood was already a "master swordsman" and he continued to get better, exponentially so by the end of The Sith War

Kun is superior, you need to learn to accept it.

This coming from someone whose posts are rarely more than a single line and who has never offered forth a coherent string of logic and evidence?

tdtd

Ah says the fanboy. "Kun was the best". Ok fanboy if it helps you sleep better at night sure he was.. Then again when we judge his force abilities, he's on level with what, a Sidious maybe? Again you've done nothing but exaggerate the power of Kun when I simply said "read the comics" because I'm not a big enough geek with time on my hands to remember quote after quote... You seem to have all the time on your hands so read the comics

Darth_Glentract

And you wonder why I call you a fanboy, tdtd? Just read your own posts.

tdtd

Who am I a fanboy of Glentract? You should spend a little less time on arguing which star wars figure owns which, and a little more on understanding what you write.. Let me know when you figure out who I'm a fanboy of.

IKC

According to whom? You? Sorry, your opinions are not material on which you can prove anything in a debate.

Coming from someone who seems to have enough time to reply to each and every one of my posts, this seems more than a little hypocritical.

Coming from someone who has been pwned multiple times by the very scans I have taken from those comics, it's laughable.

tdtd

Yes, a nerd who has had the time to read all the comics laughs at me because he thinks he proves something I have been unable to read, or better yet not had the time for. And who are you to say Kun's force abilities are better than Sidious'? Has Kun created a Force Storm, or Manipulated Black holes? NO? But does that make him worse? No.. So what is your point

Darth_Glentract

Originally posted by tdtd
Who am I a fanboy of Glentract? You should spend a little less time on arguing which star wars figure owns which, and a little more on understanding what you write.. Let me know when you figure out who I'm a fanboy of.

I've already stated who, apparently you missed it. I suggest you actually read and comprehend others post before you attempt to make an educated reply to them.

tdtd

I'm a fanboy of NJO Luke? That's some nice logic, where'd you come up with that? Nowhere have I proven that I'm a fan boy of anyone. I make posts based on what I know, obviously most of the nerds here know a little more but you get a little too riled up when your favorite hero isn't considered the greatest by everybody..

IKC

Originally posted by tdtd
Yes, a nerd who has had the time to read all the comics laughs at me because he thinks he proves something I have been unable to read, or better yet not had the time for. And who are you to say Kun's force abilities are better than Sidious'? Has Kun created a Force Storm, or Manipulated Black holes? NO? But does that make him worse? No.. So what is your point

Oh good, feat wars! Another logical fallacy!

And I think you're in the beginnings of circular reasoning, too.

"Kun can't do random feat X!"

"Why?"

"He's never shown to!"

"Why is he never shown to?"

"Because he can't!"

So are you going to make an argument for Sidious being greater than Kun? Lightsnake was far better at it than you are and he got trashed, so if you're up for being wtfpwned, be my guest.

tdtd

Nobody said Sidious is better lol. I said your arguments for Kun could be made for Sidious, or Luke, or even Revan.. Oh wait, according to you "Revan didn't show to have the abilities that Kun had".. Wait, so that means he couldn't do them right? Sit down.

IKC

And what arguments are those? You need to either disprove my points or "sit down."

This is also known as the "put up or shut up" moment.

Revan didn't have access to what Kun had or knew, by the way, not even by a fraction. Ergo, Kun can do things that Revan can't.

tdtd

But Sidious did, so now you're going to say Sidious isn't equal to Kun in the Force because we didn't see any of his force abilities? Or how about Sidious bringing unbalance to the force? Oh that's balony right?

Darth_Glentract

Originally posted by tdtd
But Sidious did, so now you're going to say Sidious isn't equal to Kun in the Force because we didn't see any of his force abilities? Or how about Sidious bringing unbalance to the force? Oh that's balony right?

WTF? The unbalance started decades before Sidious was born.

IKC

"But Sidious did" what? We know Sidious is Kun's inferior or at best an idiot because, if he did know everything Kun knew, he didn't use it in situations in which some of Kun's techniques would have saved his leathery ass.

And every Dark Side user brings unbalance to the Force. Ragnos' death weakened the dark side, for example.

tdtd

Originally posted by IKC
"But Sidious did" what? We know Sidious is Kun's inferior or at best an idiot because, if he did know everything Kun knew, he didn't use it in situations in which some of Kun's techniques would have saved his leathery ass.

And every Dark Side user brings unbalance to the Force. Ragnos' death weakened the dark side, for example.

The first 2 sentences, is that english? There have been millions of arguments regarding this. Just because he didn't use some of kun techniques doesn't mean he didn't know them lol. He did what was necessary to survive and he succeeded time and time again.

IKC

He did what was necessary to survive?

Is that why he got benchpressed into a reactor by a one-armed cyborg?
How about when his hand was hewn off by a farmboy?
How about when his "zOMG teh most powerful!"!!!!111" force storm was pushed on him by said farmboy?
What about when he was shot in the back by a smuggler?

And if you're going to nitpick, I can do just as well. In your question, it should be "are they english?"

tdtd

LOL? Youre saying "is that english" is wrong? LOL...Learn grammar bro, either one of them is correct.. Maybe I should have said "is that considered english" so you wouldn't throw a fit... And yes while we're on the topic, Sidious learned the power of transforming his spirit to clones.. Did Kun have this power? It's not stated.. With your logic I would say no. I would say just because it's not stated, doesn't mean he doesn't have it.. Then again, if he did have it he would have used it on somebody to stay alive.. Then again all he had around him were a handful of massassi warriors..

Darth_Glentract

tdtf, you do know that English is supposed to be capitalized. It appears there is more then one here who needs to learn English.

IKC

Good job arguing from ignorance once again. Kun never died, he had all the massassi sacrifice themselves in order to power a ritual designed to unleash his spirit on the cosmos. In the JAT, it is clear that Kun desires to acquire a new body.

By your example, Sidious is shown to be inferior since his spirit does precisely squat whereas Kun's can manipulate the physical world, even to the extent of killing people.

tdtd

Sidious' spirit enters a new body lol. Kun's doesn't for 4,000 years... Way to argue apples and oranges. And again if Kun knew the ritual that Sidious did, or rather in your case (he knew it but he didn't wanna use it or couldn't), Kun would have transferred his spirit into another body..

tdtd

As I've stated in the other post I apologize for claiming something I do not know, I would rather learn about it and get the opinions of the people on here, while reading the books..

zephiel7

The point is being called the strongest does not offer conclusive evidence on actual power.

Vandaar, Vrook, Zhar, and Dorak definately describe Revan as the strongest. Malak admits after Revan defeated him, that Revan is the far stronger Sith Lord. Kreia describes Revan almost as if he is a chosen one. Zez Kai, Kavar, and Atris mentions in your talks with them and in the council scene in KOTOR II how charismatic and powerful Revan was. Sion calls Revan his "lord" and how he turned down power that every one else was unworthy of. Bastila mentions Revan's power many times, and also in the holocron on Korriban.

I am replaying KOTOR so I can get you some exact quotes later. But I am hundred percent sure that the above people had the said opinion.

First you're asking the opposition to prove a negative.
Second, what the hell are you talking about?

If you read Glentract's post you would understand. We have no proof that Kun's blast is ANY more powerful than DE Sidious's storm or Revan's "lightning from the sky."

Prove to me Kun's blast is superior.

It doesn't say much except that it's an unquestionably powerful use of the Force that a fanboy is trying to denigrate so that his precious character might look better

IKC, if I am a Revan fanboy than you are an exar fan boy multiplied to the power of ten to the twenty three. You still haven't responded to my post. The fact that Revan, NJO Luke, DE Sidious, and Exar, have not empowered a staff to become as powerful as a lightsaber, how can it possibly denote they are any less talented as lightsaber duelists. How does this feat prove that Vodo would have made an especially challenging duelist?

By your feat wars logic, Exar is instantly greater than everyone because there's no other instance where the entire thousands-strong Jedi Order showed up to defeat a single entity.

It took all the Jedi to scare Kun into committing suicide eh? Big whoop.

I suppose another one of Kun's accomplishments is just barely stalemating a weakened Ulic.

Revan on the otherhand defeated an empowered Malak. A figure that the entire Jedi council feared taking on.

Good deal, so a bunch of wannabe "Sith" dark jedi couldn't control a technological terror. This makes Malak greater than Vodo how?

These weren't just wannabe Sith. Sion isn't seen controlling the star forge in KOTOR 2. Sion is by no means a weak. He is arguably one of the most powerful Sith Lords in Star Wars history. You are downplaying Malak's accomplishments.

And the generators aboard ISD's are described as miniature suns. So what? By your example, anyone who uses the Dark Side would be "empowered" were they to just step on the Star Forge

Not anyone can just control it though . Malak could, but in Bastila's holocron, many other Sith Lords' of the time were either destroyed or too afraid to use it because they feared being destroyed. The only reason his dark Jedi were being empowered is because Malak had strength enough to control the Forge.

Not at all. She references the people of the time using words like "we" and "us."

Exar Kun was just shortly before the people in KOTOR. The guy on the space station in KOTOR said so. She was referring to Exar as well.

Darth_Glentract

Eh, there is a lot of BS in your post zephiel. Enough to keep me from responding to the whole thing.

It took all the Jedi to scare Kun into committing suicide eh? Big whoop.

I suppose another one of Kun's accomplishments is just barely stalemating a weakened Ulic.

Revan on the otherhand defeated an empowered Malak. A figure that the entire Jedi council feared taking on.

1. Exar didn't commit suicide. He lived for another 4000 years and was still powerful enough to defeat JA Luke.

2. That just means Ulic is powerful, which we know that he is, not that Exar is weak.

3. The entire Council feared him? BS! This is an outright lie as Kavar faced him ALONE and almost won.

Not anyone can just control it though . Malak could, but in Bastila's holocron, many other Sith Lords' of the time were either destroyed or too afraid to use it because they feared being destroyed. The only reason his dark Jedi were being empowered is because Malak had strength enough to control the Forge.

For all we know Malak has a Rakata gene in him and that was what allowed him to control it. Saying that he was able to use it why no one else was strong enough to only repeats what we already know, Malak was second in the Sith Order.

These weren't just wannabe Sith. Sion isn't seen controlling the star forge in KOTOR 2. Sion is by no means a weak. He is arguably one of the most powerful Sith Lords in Star Wars history. You are downplaying Malak's accomplishments.

Sion's power isn't in his raw strength, but his ability to regenerate. There are dozens of people who could kill Sion. BTW, the SF had been destroyed by then.

Exar Kun was just shortly before the people in KOTOR. The guy on the space station in KOTOR said so. She was referring to Exar as well.

It was a full 40 years. I wouldn't call that, "just shortly before".

IKC

It's more powerful (and practical) than both because he is shown to do them with little effort and no recharge time.

And Revan's "lightning from the sky" is unproven as a force attack. It could very well be turbolaser fire.

Good use of hyperbole in the beginning there.

It proves that Vodo is powerful and does indeed have talent as a duelist, given he confronts the Dark Lord of the Sith with said staff. Period. It says nothing about those other characters but it does indicate exactly what he believes his skill to be. That's confidence. Arrogance is not a Jedi trait.

http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/8518/alljedi18mm.th.jpg
http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/4686/alljedi25mz.th.jpg
http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/2329/alljedi35kv.th.jpg
http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/3232/alljedi45zv.th.jpg

Big whoop? Do you have any idea what a fanboy you are if you're dismissing the fact that all Jedi showed up to stop Exar Kun as "big whoop?"

By the way, this isn't exactly committing suicide. http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/580/nofeartheend6xg.th.jpg Good job arguing from ignorance.

So how many times do I have to prove that you're wrong and possibly lying on the off chance that you know better?

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/2088/ulicnotweakened5ov.th.jpg
http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/8394/ulicfight12er.th.jpg
http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/3641/ulicfight28ig.th.jpg

Oh my, what a weakened Ulic! I guess that's why he needed three strong Jedi, one with a cyborg arm to hold him down just moments earlier. I guess that's why he's well enough to start sexing up Aleema Keto for what must be the seventh time that day.

Proved wrong by Glentract. Good job lying.

Sion is also barely a Sith. Revan's so-called "Sith empire" was made up of a bunch of ex-Jedi who knew precisely dick about the real Sith culture and zilch about Sith Magic. Sion is nowhere near among the most powerful Sith Lords in Star Wars. You are a KOTOR fanboy, plain and simple.

So what? Again, you cannot quantify exactly how powerful one had to be to control it. Indeed, you merely assume one has to be sufficiently powerful to do so even though there's not a shred of proof for it. It's just as likely there are other prerequisites.

Proven wrong by Glentract, again, but note again:

She references the people of the time using words like "we" and "us."

Since Exar Kun is not alive, she cannot possibly be referring to him, especially since there's no proof that she's ever seen him.

zephiel7

The entire Council feared him? BS! This is an outright lie as Kavar faced him ALONE and almost won.

Oh yea, thats why he was forced to RETREAT. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Kavar tried to take Malak down but got his ass whip lashed and was forced to flee, humiliated and outmatched. Thats what I call "almost won" roll eyes (sarcastic)

The order probably took Malak "a lot more seriously" after that one. That's why they sent Revan after him, because they knew it was impossible for them alone to defeat Malak.

For all we know Malak has a Rakata gene in him and that was what allowed him to control it.

Glentract, you are accusing me of posting BS when you pull out this Come on man, how can Malak possibly have Rakatan genes in him? There is no proof for this.

BTW, the SF had been destroyed by then

That still doesn't explain why Sion could not control it before KOTOR 2 and become the strong leader that Revan was.

It was a full 40 years. I wouldn't call that, "just shortly before"

What am I supposed to say to this point. That it is? So you can argue it isn't again. 40 years is not that much of a difference. Exar would be included in the group of people that Kreia referred to when she said "we"

tdtd

It appears to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, the real idea, philosophy, and power of the Ancient Sith died with Exar Kun.

IKC

I'd say that's true, actually, td. I don't think the practice of Sith Magic, for example, continued past when he unleashed his spirit.

Darth_Glentract

Originally posted by zephiel7
Oh yea, thats why he was forced to RETREAT. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Kavar tried to take Malak down but got his ass whip lashed and was forced to flee, humiliated and outmatched. Thats what I call "almost won" roll eyes (sarcastic)

The order probably took Malak "a lot more seriously" after that one. That's why they sent Revan after him, because they knew it was impossible for them alone to defeat Malak.

You have no proof that it wasn't a very close fight. I've seen well backed theories that state that Kavar was the one who loped off Malak's jaw. Even still, that's only one out of 12, 2 of which outranked Kavar. Your statement was a lie no matter how you look at it.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Glentract, you are accusing me of posting BS when you pull out this Come on man, how can Malak possibly have Rakatan genes in him? There is no proof for this.

Notice the, "for all we know". My point was that we don't know for sure that it was an individual's level of power that allowed them to control the SF. If Malak told that to the people below him, it'd sure be a good way to keep them in line.

Originally posted by zephiel7
That still doesn't explain why Sion could not control it before KOTOR 2 and become the strong leader that Revan was.

When did Sion ever try to control it before then? Proof please.

Originally posted by zephiel7
What am I supposed to say to this point. That it is? So you can argue it isn't again. 40 years is not that much of a difference. Exar would be included in the group of people that Kreia referred to when she said "we"

Excuse me? 40 years is a huge difference. The Order was ten times less martial then it had been in Exar's time. As you don't know that Exar and Kreia ever met, then how can you prove that she was referring to a group that included Exar?