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Takes place in the deserts of Tatooine.

luke dies quickly anakin puts up a fair fight
but malak wins by a pretty large margin

Anakin would give Malak some trouble, but Luke is dead in a heartbeat. Malak wins.

Eh, Malak wins. Luke would last a pretty long time, I think. Anakin would probably charge in and get pwned, but Luke is much to calm for that.

I can't understand why no one else understands... that Malak has Force powers beyond alot of movie characters. One blast of lightning and the two of them are out.

I don't know much about Malak, but I can assume that he's very powerful. And Glentract, I do hope you're being sarcastic.

No, I'm not. Like it or not, Luke was a great fighter.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
No, I'm not. Like it or not, Luke was a great fighter.

No, he sucked. You're too much of a Luke fanboy.

On the plus side, incest pwns.
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9352/3125rg.jpg

As soon as you make a solid argument against Luke, which you have tried and failed to do, you can call me a Luke fanboy. Until then, I really don't care.

Actually, aside from the EVIDENT fact that ROTJ Luke can't fight anywhere on the same level as AOTC Anakin (And yet you argue otherwise using other types of pseudoscience and unrelated feats which don't correspond to saber mastery) I don't see where I have to prove AGAINST Luke when you're the one making the assertions that he can kick ass. He can't. Period.

And you are a damn Luke fanboy, because we've had this argument before and I argued you down to nothing and you had to agree to disagree because you can't really prove your case without... unrelated Feat Wars.

I love how you keep saying that Luke can't fight for crap, but the fact remains that he beat the crap out of Vader, who pwned 7 Jedi at the same time with 20 years less experince then when Luke took him.

I love how you totally take that fight as a stand-alone accomplishment that equates the experience and training of others such as AOTC Anakin.

Luke Skywalker was barely trained as a jedi and had not refined his saber style whatsoever. The fight was conflicted, possibly thrown by Vader. And just because A beats B doesn't mean A beats all that B beat before and of all time. TPm Obi-Wan beat Maul once, but can he do it every single time? Can he defeat those that Maul defeated? NO!

Don't be ridiculously biased. Luke is cool, but he's not a good fighter, period.

Indeed. Luke gets his ass handed to him in the first few seconds of the fight.

Obi-wan and Maul is completely different. Obi-wan won by a stroke of luck, Luke bashed the crap out of Vader. Still waiting for proof that Vader threw the fight too. I mean, what real reason did he have? He was content to let Luke die in ESB as he let Luke fall after he told Luke that he was his father even though he could have easily lifted him up with the force. He also tried to kill Luke when he knocked him out the window with the debris in ESB. To say Vader threw the fight is...unfounded at best. Luke knows how to fight somehow. He was able to defeat Guri in unarmed combat and she is much stronger then even a Wookie.

I love how Luke has as much training as Nomi Sunrider, yet you never complain about her being one of the strongest female force users ever.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Obi-wan and Maul is completely different. Obi-wan won by a stroke of luck, Luke bashed the crap out of Vader.

That's funny; I seem to recall Obi-Wan bashing the crap out of Maul too. But you're missing the point; the battle was conflicted, and Luke showed -very- little saber or battle savviness. Period. This is evident.



Aside from the naturally ambiguous nature of GL's battles, I'll just chalk this up to you seeing what you want. Everyone else and his mother sees, as I plainly do, that Vader wasn't trying at all to defeat his son in ROTJ but was trying to bring out the hatred in him and turn him. Even his fall to one knee and barely being able to withstand the blows is totally out of character for someone who can lift men over a foot off the ground by one hand. Luke, meanwhile, shows his awesome display of battle prowess by swinging his saber back and forth. Him and Karate Kid part 3 should get together.



To turn his son. To obey the Emperor's wishes.



WTF? Is this another "Out of thin air" Glentract theory? Show me proof that he could have stopped Luke from falling with the force. Hell, prove to me why the Emperor didn't stop himself from falling with the force, cuz we all know he loves himself.



You could say that Vader was more or less toying with Luke that entire fight, since if you assume (As you are doing) that Vader didn't give a **** and wanted to kill his son, that fight would have lasted twenty seconds. Vader pretty easily dealt with Luke on the first saber pass.



And Han knows how to fight somehow. But that somehow isn't as a jedi knight with extensive and rigorous training. So your point falls apart. This isn't feat wars, Glentract. Give it up.



Nomi shows feats that are uber. ROTK Luke doesn't. Period.

Originally posted by Wesker
Nomi shows feats that are uber. ROTK Luke doesn't. Period.

Return Of The King Luke Exists?

Yes. He is Luke Aragorn, or Striderwalker, as he is known in the West.

Originally posted by Wesker
Yes. He is Luke Aragorn, or Striderwalker, as he is known in the West.


Cool! Is there a Palsaurapatine?

Yes, but that is a closely guarded Imperial secret.

Yeah Darth Glentract, Luke doesn't show much battle prowess. All he does is swing is saber side to side and up and down. He would die in a matter of seconds against Malak.

Originally posted by Wesker
Yes, but that is a closely guarded Imperial secret.

Janus, Am I your arch-rival?

No, you're just amusing. I can't say I have a living arch-rival. Note the term living.

Originally posted by Wesker
No, you're just amusing. I can't say I have a living arch-rival. Note the term living.

Amusing? Sir, I am the Commander Of n00bism! I have to be taken seriously!

Did you use noob and serious in the same sentence?

Originally posted by Wesker
Did you use noob and serious in the same sentence?


Yes!

Originally posted by Commander K
Yes! http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3323/motivator3d620c4853cc46acd5ad9.jpg

I think my spleen just ruptured.

You might wanna see a doctor then.

I bestow upon you the title of 'Star Wars Vs. Forum Doctor.'

Originally posted by Wesker
That's funny; I seem to recall Obi-Wan bashing the crap out of Maul too. But you're missing the point; the battle was conflicted, and Luke showed -very- little saber or battle savviness. Period. This is evident.

You need to re-watch the film. Obi-wan ends up in a pit without a lightsaber and at Maul's mercy. If Luke showed so little saber skill, how did he beat the crap out of Vader?

Originally posted by Wesker
Aside from the naturally ambiguous nature of GL's battles, I'll just chalk this up to you seeing what you want. Everyone else and his mother sees, as I plainly do, that Vader wasn't trying at all to defeat his son in ROTJ but was trying to bring out the hatred in him and turn him. Even his fall to one knee and barely being able to withstand the blows is totally out of character for someone who can lift men over a foot off the ground by one hand. Luke, meanwhile, shows his awesome display of battle prowess by swinging his saber back and forth. Him and Karate Kid part 3 should get together.

Why would Vader want to bring the hatred out of Luke? Why would he want to turn him? Vader was obviously fatigued after his fight with Luke, with multiple sources claiming that it was by only his last bit of strength that he was able to throw Sidious down into the pit. Even if Vader has extreme strength, his suit lacks extreme power. What I mean is, he can lift someone over his head slowly, but we only see him do that at very slow speeds. If Luke lifts 50 pounds over his head 4 times as fast he is doing just as much work. So no, Vader falling is not totally out of character.

Originally posted by Wesker
To turn his son. To obey the Emperor's wishes.

Why would he care wants the Emperor wants? He knows the Emperor is going to have him killed as soon as Luke turns, which is something we know he doesn't want(at least at one point he did not want to die). He wants the power to kill Sidious, but isn't going to die(before his redemption) even for that chance.

Originally posted by Wesker
WTF? Is this another "Out of thin air" Glentract theory? Show me proof that he could have stopped Luke from falling with the force. Hell, prove to me why the Emperor didn't stop himself from falling with the force, cuz we all know he loves himself.

Janus, you know the answer to this and you're either not thinking clearly or just wasting my time. We've seen him use the force on multiple occasions to lift things that would require more energy to lift then a person. Keeping Luke from falling was within his power.

Originally posted by Wesker
You could say that Vader was more or less toying with Luke that entire fight, since if you assume (As you are doing) that Vader didn't give a **** and wanted to kill his son, that fight would have lasted twenty seconds. Vader pretty easily dealt with Luke on the first saber pass.

Janus, are you asleep or something? I wouldn't expect such low quality from you. If Vader really was trying to kill him(as I have said) it doesn't change the fact that Luke was able to defeat Vader. Vader trying to kill Luke and Luke winning aren't mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by Wesker
And Han knows how to fight somehow. But that somehow isn't as a jedi knight with extensive and rigorous training. So your point falls apart. This isn't feat wars, Glentract. Give it up.

Do you have any idea who Guri is? In a straight-up fist-fight she would kill even Malak. Luke being able to defeat her unarmed is more impressive then you know.

Originally posted by Wesker
Nomi shows feats that are uber. ROTK Luke doesn't. Period.

This goes to show that it is possible that Luke could be very powerful even though he didn't have decades of training.

Please, Glentract... It's 1 AM. I am not going over the same damn argument with you. You're a Luke fanboy. Everyone knows. No sense in lying about it. Just curl up to your Luke pillow and piss off. I am tired of arguing with people who just don't get it.

Glentract is right... Luke was had enormous power but he was too young and too untrained to realize.. Both the Emperor and Vader saw it and were scared of him. Just because the choreography of the 70's was total shit, doesn't mean Luke wasn't good with a saber.. In fact that's a terrible assumption to make, just based on the choreography. And I don't know if you recall but Obi Wan was gaining the upper hand on Maul when Maul used a force push on him and as we know, force powers are forbidden during lightsaber battles.

Originally posted by tdtd
Glentract is right... Luke was had enormous power but he was too young and too untrained to realize.. Both the Emperor and Vader saw it and were scared of him. Just because the choreography of the 70's was total shit, doesn't mean Luke wasn't good with a saber.. In fact that's a terrible assumption to make, just based on the choreography. And I don't know if you recall but Obi Wan was gaining the upper hand on Maul when Maul used a force push on him and as we know, force powers are forbidden during lightsaber battles.

Where does this mentality come from that early 80s choreography is inferior and therefore, Luke must be better?

I didn't say Luke is better, I said you people are saying he sucks because the choreography isn't what it was in episodes 1-3.. That's all.

Blaming it on the choreography? Yes Luke was good in Thrawn, and amazingly good in NJO. However in ROTJ he sucked.

I'm not blaming it on the choreography. Again, I said you guys are basing his saber abilities only on the choreography.

Janus, until you make a solid argument against Luke, then I suggest you don't call me a Luke fanboy. Really, your arguments against Luke are crap and don't live up to the level of quality we are so used to having seen from you. In anycase, I think you should get out of your mentality that Luke is pathetic and stop telling others they don't get it when it is obviously you who does not understand it.

Glentract. You've made fanboy arguments on the level of Lightsnake. Luke sucked ass in ROTJ. In this fight, he's pwned in seconds.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Janus, until you make a solid argument against Luke, then I suggest you don't call me a Luke fanboy. Really, your arguments against Luke are crap and don't live up to the level of quality we are so used to having seen from you. In anycase, I think you should get out of your mentality that Luke is pathetic and stop telling others they don't get it when it is obviously you who does not understand it.

In anycase, I think you should stfu.

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2842/anidooku4cm.gif

You see that? You mean to tell me that, given the same situation, ROTJ Luke can do the same thing or better? You're a fanboy.

Luke has no skill with a lightsaber pre Thrawn. Period end of sentence. Luke gets pwned.

Luke doesn't suck. He beat Vader, if he had no skill the fights between him and Vader would be done in seconds. In ESB, if Vader wanted Luke so bad, he could unarm him, and knock him out. If you are saying Luke sucks badly, he would have lost badly.

When Vader lost his patience, he DID end the fight in seconds.

And the whole point of ROTJ was him loving his son. He didn't really want to kill Luke. Saying Luke >>>> Vader is like saying Anakin >>>> Dooku.

Anakin did beat Dooku. Palpatine wouldn't tell Dooku to throw the fight, Palpatine wants the strongest person, if Dooku beats Anakin, he is stronger, so be it.

you have to take in to consideration however, Lucas said that the fighting wasn't as good because of the, and I quote, "lack of magic".

Malak would lose cause Luke's the son Teh CH0S1N 0NE!!!! AND MALAK DOESN'T HAVE ANY HAXXORZ!!! ***** GOT OWNED ***** GOT OWNED!!!

Malak, without much trouble.

Yeah he wouldn't even need to try. he could win with a hand tied behind hid back.

Now, i not taking Luke's side, but you have to remember that the earlier movies talent and Special Effects were less.....sophisticated.

Luke beat vader. Vader's 80% of Sidious in strength. Lucas said this himself. Luke does not suck.

He does not. But you have to also realize that Anakin may have been 80% of Sideous's power, but the guy had been through alot. he got almost every part of his body choped off. Not just his limbs if i remember right. He was getting old. and weaker.

And he threw the fight.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Luke beat vader. Vader's 80% of Sidious in strength. Lucas said this himself. Luke does not suck.

Erm, did you see how Luke fought Vader? He only won because of his rage. He had no solid fighting stance, and was just swinging his saber like a madman.

Luke's a pushover.

Originally posted by Xepeyon
Now, i not taking Luke's side, but you have to remember that the earlier movies talent and Special Effects were less.....sophisticated.

They were effective enough. While not as flashy, the fighting was still effective. However, it was still very basic. Arguing that the choreography is outdated, therefore Luke is actually much better is arguing from ignorance. You cannot know how Luke would fight with better choreography unless the scenes were refilmed and retconned. Since the movies are the top of the line canon, arguing that they are defective or not up to par is undermining the very idea of SW canon and making your argument defunct. So when you say that Luke did X in the movies or books of the OT period, but he was much better than we see him as in ROTJ, you are putting down a superior piece of evidence to raise another up just to prove your point. You can't be selective like that. Special effects aside, the duelling was there and is movie canon. Ergo, you cannot discredit it because you feel it's inferior.

Luke in the OT is a relative amateur with the lightsaber. AOTC Anakin would tool the shit out of him, as would TPM Obi-Wan, or Qui-Gon Jinn. Hell, even Kit Fisto would beat him. People need to accept this and move on.

Janus and others, I never said Luke would beat Malak or anything like that. That would put me on par with LS in fanboysim for sure. I never said he is better then ROTS Anakin either. I said he'd last longer because he wouldn't try to fight Malak because he is much more calm and reserved then Anakin was. I don't know why me saying that gets all guns firing.

Yes, Luke is better then AOTC Anakin, Janus. If I knew how to get clips from the OT, I'd show some and you would see that the fighting is probably a lot better then you remember. Since I can't, just go watch the fights again and then honestly tell me that Luke is worse then AOTC Anakin.

How about you watch the sequence where Luke continually uses his lightsaber as a sledgehammer against Vader, Glentract?

What skill! It only took him about five full seconds to realize that hacking off Vader's hand would be more effective than beating on his lightsaber!

Again, he is.

AotC was no expert, but like I was proved wrong, he survived the battle of Geonosis. Imagine Luke in that arena. The Nexu would rip him apart. Anakin at least had a stable form and kept it. And again, Luke is nothing but a mad man with his saber at this point. Anakin'd pwn him.

Moving away from Anakin, I just watched Luke going phsyco, and he has no great saber skill.

Originally posted by Faroth
Again, he is.

AotC was no expert, but like I was proved wrong, he survived the battle of Geonosis. Imagine Luke in that arena. The Nexu would rip him apart. Anakin at least had a stable form and kept it. And again, Luke is nothing but a mad man with his saber at this point. Anakin'd pwn him.

Moving away from Anakin, I just watched Luke going phsyco, and he has no great saber skill.

WTF? If you think C-3PO and Padme could beat Luke because they also survived the battle of Geonosis, you are an anti-Luke fanboy. Surviving that battle isn't very impressive.

How about you watch the sequence where Luke continually uses his lightsaber as a sledgehammer against Vader, Glentract?

What skill! It only took him about five full seconds to realize that hacking off Vader's hand would be more effective than beating on his lightsaber!

If using a sledge hammer against Vader worked, then it worked. Nothing more can be said on the matter, except that regular PT Jedi styles failed miserably when fighting Vader because they lacked the power to stop him from killing them. Luke's style had a huge amount of power because he used it like a baseball bat or sledge hammer or whatever you want to call it. I don't see why one minute people are complaining because Luke had the power behind his strikes to down Vader and then complain about him using his lightsaber like a sledge hammer, but then forget that using his lightsaber like a sledge hammer was what allowed Luke to down Vader.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Janus and others, I never said Luke would beat Malak or anything like that.

You said he was last a long time. This is laughable. Also, you said that Anakin would last more like an afterthought, even though AOTC Anakin is the greater threat here. You then went on to tell someone to "accept" that Luke is "Just that good". This is also laughable.



Neither did we. Where did this come from?



Cuz the idea of him lasting more than five seconds is ridiculous. He has no major skill. I did a COMPLETE analysis of the ROTJ fight not three weeks ago on DTF, Glentract. I am not arguing from ignorance.



See my above point, Glentract. You're trying to make it seem like I'm a Luke hater and I haven't seen the films in forever. You're wrong on both counts. I like Luke as a character (Though I feel later EU ruined him) and I watched ESB and ROTJ and within a few hours wrote up an analysis of both end fight scenes again, at DTF. You read it and replied, Glentract. You're wrong. Unless you can pull some amazing proof out of your ass, you have nothing.

Or the mere fact that Vader took a dive allowed Luke to "down" Vader.

Vader lifts people off the ground with one hand. He's not going to be downed legitimately by Luke "I can do a Pushup!" Skywalker.


By the way... what style was it that Luke was using, hm?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
WTF? If you think C-3PO and Padme could beat Luke because they also survived the battle of Geonosis, you are an anti-Luke fanboy. Surviving that battle isn't very impressive.

The reason Padme survived was because she hid behind Anakin in an overturned chariot. The reason C-3PO survived was because Fisto force pushed him. Actually, surviving Geonosis is quite impressive.

Originally posted by Wesker
You said he was last a long time. This is laughable. Also, you said that Anakin would last more like an afterthought, even though AOTC Anakin is the greater threat here. You then went on to tell someone to "accept" that Luke is "Just that good". This is also laughable.

"Eh, Malak wins. Luke would last a pretty long time, I think. Anakin would probably charge in and get pwned, but Luke is much to calm for that."

Did I said Luke would last a long time against Malak if he charged in and tried to kill him with his saber? No, I said that Luke would last a pretty long time by not fighting but instead staying back because he is smart enough to know he is outmatched and, as we saw in ROTJ, not to big on fighting to begin with.

Originally posted by Wesker
Neither did we. Where did this come from?

I was just making it clear that I hadn't made any claim to that.

Originally posted by Wesker
Cuz the idea of him lasting more than five seconds is ridiculous. He has no major skill. I did a COMPLETE analysis of the ROTJ fight not three weeks ago on DTF, Glentract. I am not arguing from ignorance.

Where is this complete analysis? Can you give a link to the thread or at least what forum area? And again, I said Luke would survive longer then Anakin by being smart enough not to charge in, instead staying bavk for six seconds, then fighting and dying just to make the people who said he wouldn't last five seconds mad. No, not really just to make people who say he wouldn't last five seconds mad, but because Luke wouldn't just charge into the fray, that idea is totally out of character.

Originally posted by Wesker
See my above point, Glentract. You're trying to make it seem like I'm a Luke hater and I haven't seen the films in forever. You're wrong on both counts. I like Luke as a character (Though I feel later EU ruined him) and I watched ESB and ROTJ and within a few hours wrote up an analysis of both end fight scenes again, at DTF. You read it and replied, Glentract. You're wrong. Unless you can pull some amazing proof out of your ass, you have nothing.

Again, I ask how I can get clips that I could post. I'll write up a case after I have had time to look at what you wrote at DTF.

Originally posted by IKC
By the way... what style was it that Luke was using, hm?
Haha, I don't think he even knew what a fighting style was. He just swung the lightsaber like he was at batting practice.

Originally posted by PurpleSaber
The reason Padme survived was because she hid behind Anakin in an overturned chariot. The reason C-3PO survived was because Fisto force pushed him. Actually, surviving Geonosis is quite impressive.

No, it isn't. Over 100,000 Clonetroopers did it. The same clonetroopers that got pwned in the OT. Plus, I could argue that ROTJ Luke survived Yavin, Hoth, and the mutiple battles in Shadows of the Empire. It only leads us to use of feats that don't help either side.

I don't have the link to DTF here, let alone the exact thread. It's in the SW Eu section, and besides, the links to DTF don't work here.

You did read it and reply, I remember. If you want clips, you can get the OT DVDs and get PowerDVD, take stills with Image Capture.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
No, it isn't. Over 100,000 Clonetroopers did it. The same clonetroopers that got pwned in the OT. Plus, I could argue that ROTJ Luke survived Yavin, Hoth, and the mutiple battles in Shadows of the Empire. It only leads us to use of feats that don't help either side.
The reason most clone troopers survived is because they are superior to droids, and they far outnumbered the droids. Also, hundreds of clone troopers actually DID DIE. It amazes me that you think surviving Geonosis is unimpressive. If Luke were in that battle he would have died.

Padme survived the battle because she had jedi knights protecting her. The droids survived because they were not priority targets.

Originally posted by PurpleSaber
The reason most clone troopers survived is because they are superior to droids, and they far outnumbered the droids. Also, hundreds of clone troopers actually DID DIE. It amazes me that you think surviving Geonosis is unimpressive. If Luke were in that battle he would have died.
FTW????

I doubt Anakin was still a priority target once Mace Windu and other Council Member Jedi showed up. And the droids actually outnumbered the clones 5 to 1 if I remember correctly(there were over a million droids and 196,000 Clone Troopers).

If Luke were in that battle he would have died.

Totaly unfounded. We've seen Luke survive fights where there was a higher ratio of bad guys with guns to good guys with guns then Anakin such as the Sail Barge.

You are all asking Glentract for proof of why he thinks Luke is good(so do I). Well, where is your proof that he sucks?

Exactly

Originally posted by mace=badass
You are all asking Glentract for proof of why he thinks Luke is good(so do I). Well, where is your proof that he sucks?

Actually, we have to prove that Luke is good before they need to argue that Luke is bad. Ozcam's Razor or something like that.

You mean the five guys who were on the deck of the barge who are just hired goons? Yeah, they were efficient battledroid equivalents, Glentract. They didn't kill a single enemy. And regardless of what you've said in the past, there is NOT fifty guys or even twenty on the top of that barge. And no, Luke's blaster deflection is barely adequate. He would get DESTROYED at Geonosis.

Originally posted by mace=badass
You are all asking Glentract for proof of why he thinks Luke is good(so do I). Well, where is your proof that he sucks?

The evidence shown leads the majority to believe, via logos, that Luke is a weak fighter at best. You few, who are the minority, are offering a different assertion. You must prove up. So far, no proof has come forward that has held at all. Therefore, there is no reason for us to think that Luke > AOTC Anakin or anyone else of the PT jedi order, and lots of reasons why we should think he needs LOTS of training before he can even contest.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Totaly unfounded. We've seen Luke survive fights where there was a higher ratio of bad guys with guns to good guys with guns then Anakin such as the Sail Barge.
Anakin would pwn everybody on Jabba's Sail Barge without a second thought. He is far more skilled than Luke with the force and with a saber.

Yea well luke got to make out with his sister.. Beat that

You guys say Luke has bad form because he beat on Vader like his lightsaber was a baseball bat, and how hw has no skill for it. Well, how much skill CW Anakin had for doing the same to Asajj.

I wouldn't be proud of incest.

Originally posted by mace=badass
You guys say Luke has bad form because he beat on Vader like his lightsaber was a baseball bat, and how hw has no skill for it. Well, how much skill CW Anakin had for doing the same to Asajj.

Actually, his skill in ROTJ is minimally better than what he had in ESB, and in ESB Vader easily beat his guard many times in the first part of the battle, where he was going easy on him. Then, in the hallway, Vader goes a little more psycho; reckless, but dangerous. Luke falls like a house of cards, scrambles all over, barely keeps his head on. He manages to tag Vader's shoulder but Vader says "All bets are off" and hacks his arm off. QED.

Meanwhile, in ROTJ, Luke's greatest accomplishment was kicking Vader in the chest and still having a limb afterwards. Otherwise, his saber skills in this match are basic at best. THAT is why he's not that good. Not because he isn't uber flashy but because his form is incomplete and poor. He did not outwit or outfight Vader; he simply hammered away at him and Vader fell back on one knee in a move that is so damn contrived it makes me want to laugh.

Anakin, meanwhile, is a very proficient dueller even as of AOTC. He hung for a bit with Dooku, who would school Vader in five seconds, and as seen in the animation on the last page, can fight much faster and with more precision and better footwork than Luke can, period.

Therefore, Luke has no complete or worthwhile form. His defense is poor and his offense is poor. He dies. Luke < Any PT Jedi knight or master.

Hey age is just a number and sister is just a title..

Anakin was actually very accomplished when he fought Asajj.

Originally posted by mace=badass
You guys say Luke has bad form because he beat on Vader like his lightsaber was a baseball bat, and how hw has no skill for it. Well, how much skill CW Anakin had for doing the same to Asajj.
But Anakin showed on numerous occasions that he has form, both before and after the CW Cartoons.

Vader get beat by Dooku? No.

You are saying because he isn't flashy he sucks? Don't judge a book by it's cover(?). Hell, swinging his lightsaber around like a 'baseball bat' worked out for him pretty freakin' good.

He's 80% of Sidious in the OT.

Yeah, your right, Vader let Luke cut off his arm!

Luke's "poor" fighting stance proved efficient enough to beat someone who is 80% of the Emperor in strength and to destroy all of Jabba's guards.

Destroying Jabba's guards is not an impressive feat! They were just a bunch of goons!

Dooku is described as one of the greatest lightsaber duelists in centuries.. And vader was um...?

Better than Dooku..

Vader get beat by Dooku? No.

Yes, Dooku would tool Vader while eating breakfast and reading a newspaper.

He's 80% of Sidious in the OT.

In terms of force powers, not lightsaber skills.

Yeah, your right, Vader let Luke cut off his arm! roll eyes (sarcastic)

Did Maul "let" Obi-Wan cut his saber in half, chase him around like a little *****, and cut him in half? I guess not, so it's fair to assume Obi-Wan> Maul, right?

And it's also funny how Vader was able to lift up a full grown man well off his feet and suddenly not have the energy to even counter a lightsaber strike. Hmm.....

Luke's "poor" fighting stance proved efficient enough to beat someone who is 80% of the Emperor in strength and to destroy all of Jabba's guards.

And Anakin's contributions on Geonosis were far more impressive than Luke's. Anakin faced a f*cking army of thousands of battle droids with other Jedi, while Luke faced guards armed with sticks and spears for the most part. And also, as I ahve said before, Vader is 80% of Sidious's force powers, not lightsaber skills. So to say that Luke is more than 80% of Vader's force powers because he defeated Vader in a lightsaber duel is unfounded. Obi-Wan got pwned by Dooku with the force in under twenty seconds, does that mean he will go down that quickly in a lightsaber duel? No.

OMg...

List of Luke fanboys:

- Glentract
- mace=badass
- darthsith19.

You people are putting too much Denial in your coffee.

Vader would beat Dooku. Don't ask me for proof because you're giving me none.Besides, first you're giving so much credit to Vader, then you're taking it all away from him, it makes no sense.

Yeah I'm definitely a Luke fanboy because I have an opinion that Luke would win. You figured it just perfectly Janus.

Originally posted by mace=badass
Vader would beat Dooku. Don't ask me for proof because you're giving me none.Besides, first you're giving so much credit to Vader, then you're taking it all away from him, it makes no sense.

Want proof that Dooku > Vader? No problemo.

OT Vader is weaker than ROTS Anakin (GL sourced fact), and Ushgarak also told me that Old Ben being weaker than General Kenobi and All PT Era combatants being better than the OT Era ones are all GL sourced facts (you can PM him for more info or you could ask me to do so for you, I will be more than glad to do so). So Vader had to wait for Old Ben to lose on purpose in order to finally strike him down, where exactly was Vader's advantage in that fight? I saw none. While Dooku managed to hold his own against Obi-Wan AND Anakin at the same time. He just polished off Obi-Wan like Obi-Wan was a minor distraction.

OK, you're turn.

Erm, not really, Mace.

Dooku would WTFpwn Vader, AotC Anakin would WTF pwn Luke, and that's that. If you want proof...

Dooku > Vader: Dooku was powerful enough to stand up to Yoda. He probably gets even stronger in between AotC and RotS, and that's damn powerful. Vader's OK, but he wouldn't stand up to the power of Dooku.

Anakin > Luke: Like I've said countless times, Luke has no stable stance, he swings like a madman, and is barely at the apprentice level; he had almost no training. Anakin had at least aquired a stable form, swings fairly elegantly, and has quite some training, because he'd become a knight... I believe two years later?

Like it's been said here many a time, you can't judge....

A beat B, B beat C, so obviously A beats C. Which is what you just did.

Also, where did you get that source where it says OT Vader is worse then RotS Anakin, because I don't believe that for a second.

Just figured I'd finally count how many guys Luke takes on screen on the Sail Barges. He defeats 18 guys not including that idiot who he pulled out of the window or Boba Fett. Anyone want to count the number of people Anakin took at Geonosis? I can't find my copy of the movie right not.

Erm... He didn't defeat Boba Fett, Han Solo shot him in the jetpack. Which reminds me, he had Han's help, Chewy's help, and Lando's help.

Originally posted by mace=badass
Like it's been said here many a time, you can't judge....

A beat B, B beat C, so obviously A beats C. Which is what you just did.

Also, where did you get that source where it says OT Vader is worse then RotS Anakin, because I don't believe that for a second.

So if A school bully beat the crap out of some ordinary guy, does it mean he will probably lose to a five year old school girl?

That theory isn't necessarily right for closely matched combatants, but power difference this much?

And watch the ESB or ROTJ DVD commentary, near the end, Lucas describles that Vader's power level is only "a shell of his former self".

Well Glentract, considering there were thousands of battle droids in the arena, and the fight was about ten minutes long (estimate, correct me if I'm wrong), it's safe to assume Anakin killed over 18. But let me watch the scene.

Glentract, did you not get it? 18 goons who can't barely shoot and don't kill any of the good guys, versus hundreds of precision firing battle droids firing from all positions with minimal cover? WTF... Does Luke killing eighteen goons mean he's better than Anakin? Grasping for straws much?

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Want proof that Dooku > Vader? No problemo.

It seems to be a problem for you as your post is worthless.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
If Luke were in that battle he would have died.

Unfounded BS. Prove up or shut up.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
OT Vader is weaker than ROTS Anakin (GL sourced fact),

This is a lie. GL stated that Vader had less potential then Anakin, not that he was weaker. Vader's 20 years of access to Darth Bane's personal holocrons gives him more knowledge then Dooku on Ancient Sith knowledge. That, along with his full access to the Temple Archives for 20 years gives him more knowledge of Jedi teachings then ROTS Anakin(making you even more plainly a liar) and gives him knowledge on par with Windu.

Source: RoDV

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
and Ushgarak also told me that Old Ben being weaker than General Kenobi

Ush is a moderator, not a SW authority. His word on SW fights is no more important then any other persons. Find actual proof and provide it, with sources, or stfu.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
and All PT Era combatants being better than the OT Era ones are all GL sourced facts (you can PM him for more info or you could ask me to do so for you, I will be more than glad to do so).

I suggest you provide the info right here in this thread for all to see. That and the source for your quotes.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
So Vader had to wait for Old Ben to lose on purpose in order to finally strike him down, where exactly was Vader's advantage in that fight? I saw none.

Ben let himself be killed, but he wasn't able to defeat Vader either, nor gain any advantage over Vader. You prove nothing.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
While Dooku managed to hold his own against Obi-Wan AND Anakin at the same time. He just polished off Obi-Wan like Obi-Wan was a minor distraction.

Yes, Dooku is a beast and will probably win, but that doesn't mean he is going to WTFpwn OT Vader, who has more experince, more training, better access to knowledge, ect then either ROTS Obi-wan or Anakin.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
OK, you're turn.

Sorry, please try again.

I don't know what's funnier; you grasping for straws, or you thinking that in your teenage wisdom, know more than everyone else. Talk about hubris.

Originally posted by mace=badass
Yeah I'm definitely a Luke fanboy because I have an opinion that Luke would win. You figured it just perfectly Janus.

And btw, you're a fanboy because you have a consistant and unproven bias for Luke that he will win and you can't prove your case.

Glentract, did you not get it? 18 goons who can't barely shoot and don't kill any of the good guys, versus hundreds of precision firing battle droids firing from all positions with minimal cover? WTF... Does Luke killing eighteen goons mean he's better than Anakin? Grasping for straws much?

Well Glentract, considering there were thousands of battle droids in the arena, and the fight was about ten minutes long (estimate, correct me if I'm wrong), it's safe to assume Anakin killed over 18. But let me watch the scene.

Erm... He didn't defeat Boba Fett, Han Solo shot him in the jetpack. Which reminds me, he had Han's help, Chewy's help, and Lando's help.

That's not to say there weren't many others who were killed when the ship exploded but had been firing on Luke. We also see Luke deflect blaster fire mutiple times.

Chewie, Han, and Lando together kill 1 guy. That's it. 1 guy total. Lando is dangling from the side of the sail barge 23 seconds into the fight and Han and Chewie spend the rest of the time trying to get him back up without getting shot.

Just how many droids were actually targeting AOTC Anakin? And it seems that all of you are forgetting that Anakin, with the help of 200 other Jedi were losing until the clones showed up, but Luke won without any reinforcements. Janus, nice statement on Anakin having minimal cover, but you are forgetting that Anakin did have cover for a large amount of the fight in the side of that sled. Luke had zero cover for the entire time and had to watch blaster fire from mutiple directions, including a heavy turret on Jabba's ship.

Originally posted by Wesker
I don't know what's funnier; you grasping for straws, or you thinking that in your teenage wisdom, know more than everyone else. Talk about hubris.

At least I admit that I don't know everything, but you consistently act like some all knowing being.

Alright, I'm done with this. You are irredeemable. You can have your denial. Debating with you is wasting my time, as always, Glentract.

Originally posted by Wesker
Alright, I'm done with this. You are irredeemable. You can have your denial. Debating with you is wasting my time, as always, Glentract.

Only goes to show once again that you cannot create a solid case against Luke.

The fact that I can't stand how you debate and I get sick and tired of you being a fanboy proves I'm wrong? How does THAT work, Glentract? Shouldn't you be jerking off to ROTJ's finale or something? Please. You bore me. Piss off.

Thanks for making this thread uncomfortable guys, real nice.

Originally posted by Wesker
The fact that I can't stand how you debate and I get sick and tired of you being a fanboy proves I'm wrong? How does THAT work, Glentract? Shouldn't you be jerking off to ROTJ's finale or something? Please. You bore me. Piss off.

More pathetic excuses for not being able to prove you opinion? If you ever decide to fail at proving Luke weak again I'll be happy to continue.

Unfounded BS. Prove up or shut up.

Okay, Luke was fighting on the sail barge. He was facing blaster shots one at a time, and he nearly lost his fake hand to one. There were much less blaster wielders on the sail barge then on Geonosis. Now, if a goon wielding a blaster was able to get a hit on him, what makes you think a battle droid invented for fighting couldn't do the same?

Ush is a moderator, not a SW authority. His word on SW fights is no more important then any other persons. Find actual proof and provide it, with sources, or stfu.

Gosh Glentract, calm down, it's only a f*cking debate okay? I will ask him for it. I will PM him right now.

Source: RoDV

RoDV?

Ben let himself be killed, but he wasn't able to defeat Vader either, nor gain any advantage over Vader. You prove nothing.

I have proven that if Vader was so much better then Ben, he wouldn't need to wait for Ben to give up.


Yes, Dooku is a beast and will probably win, but that doesn't mean he is going to WTFpwn OT Vader, who has more experince, more training, better access to knowledge, ect then either ROTS Obi-wan or Anakin.

Can you give me sources for all this?

Okay Glentract, Ush is online, so it shouldn't take him long to reply to my PM. Just calm down man, I don't wish you ill will or anything, I just wanna debate OK? No hard feelings man

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Okay, Luke was fighting on the sail barge. He was facing blaster shots one at a time, and he nearly lost his fake hand to one. There were much less blaster wielders on the sail barge then on Geonosis. Now, if a goon wielding a blaster was able to get a hit on him, what makes you think a battle droid invented for fighting couldn't do the same?

Nearly lost his fake hand to one? It was still working fine and we saw only minor surface damage.

The fact that droids were only able to defeat the primitive Gungans because of superior numbers makes me look poorly on them.

Again, you miss the point that although there were more people shooting at Geonosis, there was more people to shoot at also. For while the Jedi were winning there was a about a fourth as many people shooting at Anakin as there was at Luke.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Gosh Glentract, calm down, it's only a f*cking debate okay? I will ask him for it. I will PM him right now.

Sorry, but it is really annoying to hear more things without sources.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
RoDV?

The Rise of Darth Vader.


Originally posted by DarkNemesis
I have proven that if Vader was so much better then Ben, he wouldn't need to wait for Ben to give up.

No, you haven't proven that, so don;t act like you did. Obi-wan's style is supposed to draw fights out, so just because Vader didn't defeat him in 10 seconds doesn't mean he was not superior to him.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Can you give me sources for all this?

RoDV.

Not any old goons, but the goons of one of the biggest criminals in the galaxy.

Lucas didn't say Force powers. The 80% is overall.

There's a difference though. Maul was beating Obi-Wan for 99% of the duel. Vader was never beating Luke.



I don't know anyone here who is a Luke fanboy. I see a few who don't underestimate Luke just because of his baseball stance, though.


So destroying Boba's weapon followed by Boba falling over isn't a sign of him getting pwnd?


omg, Janus, are you actually gonna say that Jabba's guards arn't better than standard battle droids?



Bye, bye, Janus!

OK Glentract, I have provided one quote from GL

"Let's face it. Vader is more machine than man and a shell of his former self. ROTS is when you'll see Anakin in his prime."

GL, ROTJ DVD Commentary. Happy? Waiting for the next two.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
OK Glentract, I have provided one quote from GL

"Let's face it. Vader is more machine than man and a shell of his former self. ROTS is when you'll see Anakin in his prime."

GL, ROTJ DVD Commentary. Happy? Waiting for the next two.
I agree that OT Vader isn't as strong as he is in ROTJ. I also agree that Dooku could beat any form of Vader. Vader in ROTS could give him some trouble cause he has so much raw strength, and expreience, but as long as Dooku doesn't get worn out he could probably take out Vader, what with his Makashi lightsaber style and his Force powers, whoch are better than Vader's.

I remember hearing somewhere that Palaptine always wanted an apprentice that was twice as strong as he was. He nearly got that when he got Vader but then Vader got injured. Then he wanted it again when a stronger apprentice, Luke, came. Tell me, why would he want Luke if Vader were stronger?

Lucas says in the ROTJ AC that Sidious is trying to get Luke to kill his father. Trying to get Luke to kill him, not testing Luke to see if he can kill him. Palpatine already knows that Luke can kill him if he wants to. Lucas says Palpatine's trying to get a new, better apprentice, which is Luke.

He probably thought that Luke had the potential to get stronger. Why Vader would let himself be killed is the part that doesn't make any sense though. The only logical thing is to believe that Vader really was overpowered.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
He probably thought that Luke had the potential to get stronger. Why Vader would let himself be killed is the part that doesn't make any sense though. The only logical thing is to believe that Vader really was overpowered.
Yes. In the novel and the film Vader's plan is to turn Luke to the Dark Side and then get him to kill Sidious. The novel says that, while Vader and Luke are dueling, Vader see's a flaw in his plan; Luke might beat him. The novel then goes on to say how strong Luke has become, ect.

Backtrack here, when did we ever see Maul beating Obi Wan? Obiwan was more than holding his own with 1 saber against a dual lightsaber, and then broke the duel lightsaber, had Maul backed up and Maul used a force push... Where in this do you see Maul beating Obi Wan in a lightsaber battle?

Originally posted by tdtd
Backtrack here, when did we ever see Maul beating Obi Wan? Obiwan was more than holding his own with 1 saber against a dual lightsaber, and then broke the duel lightsaber, had Maul backed up and Maul used a force push... Where in this do you see Maul beating Obi Wan in a lightsaber battle?

During the entire time that Qui-gon was still fighting.

Ah well that's nice.. How about when it's just Obi Wan? Anyone with common sense could see who was in control

Yes, Obi-wan was in total control when he got knocked in that pit. It must have been part of his plan or something, right?

No, but the general rule is using the force isn't allowed during a lightsaber battle. Maul used the force when he was getting pwned.

The rules of lightsaber fighting? I suppose that means that Vader was getting pwned in ESB as he had to use the force to win. I suppose Obi-wan and Anakin were pwning Dooku as he used the force in their fight. No, there are no rules. What is up with Luke haters making up BS?

I find it hilarious that Janus says he has information that Luke sucks, but when it comes time to say it he tries to play it off like it's not worth it.

Who said anything about hating Luke? I simply said that in a lightsaber battle, Maul had to use the FORCE to subdue Obi Wan temporarily, as he was getting pwned in LIGHTSABER COMBAT

Originally posted by tdtd
Who said anything about hating Luke? I simply said that in a lightsaber battle, Maul had to use the FORCE to subdue Obi Wan temporarily, as he was getting pwned in LIGHTSABER COMBAT

He got the upperhand for a short time, but who is to say that Maul wouldn't have started pwning Obi-wan again eve if he hadn't decided to use the force. Who cares anyway? It's not like what happens if we impose certain restrictions on characters makes any difference to anything.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
He got the upperhand for a short time, but who is to say that Maul wouldn't have started pwning Obi-wan again eve if he hadn't decided to use the force. Who cares anyway? It's not like what happens if we impose certain restrictions on characters makes any difference to anything.

Who is to say that Maul wouldn't have started winning? Hmm well the movie for starters lol. I'm sure in an alternate reality Maul whooped up on him but as you can clearly see, Maul was getting pwned when Obi Wan got mad, so you can't say "who's to say" when you know what clearly happened.

Just in case you didn't see it Glentract, here's the proof that ROTS Anakin > OT Vader. Taken straight from GL's mouth in the ROTJ DVD commentary:

"Let's face it. Vader is more machine than man and a shell of his former self. ROTS is when you'll see Anakin in his prime."

Happy now? Waiting for the next few quotes.

Who is to say that Maul wouldn't have started winning? Hmm well the movie for starters lol. I'm sure in an alternate reality Maul whooped up on him but as you can clearly see, Maul was getting pwned when Obi Wan got mad, so you can't say "who's to say" when you know what clearly happened.

You missed the part where I said it doesn't matter anyway.

Just in case you didn't see it Glentract, here's the proof that ROTS Anakin > OT Vader. Taken straight from GL's mouth in the ROTJ DVD commentary:

"Let's face it. Vader is more machine than man and a shell of his former self. ROTS is when you'll see Anakin in his prime."

Happy now? Waiting for the next few quotes.

Because GL is so consistent all of the time, right? In anycase, that also has nothing to do with Luke being more powerful then AOTC Anakin.

They get outmuscled by the brute.

Anakin charges in and gets pwned like what happened with Dooku.

Luke goes next, lasts longer but ultimately falls before the Dark Lord.

Malak gets his jaw cut.

Luke gets WTFPWNed in the first few seconds because he has no real lightsaber training and zero experience in blocking Force attacks.

Anakin lasts a minute, maybe more if he's really pushing it.

Malak suffers no injuries to speak of.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Because GL is so consistent all of the time, right?
Wow, I love it how you try to overrule the ultimate canon (GL) by your own opinions. Haha.

Because GL is so consistent all of the time, right? In anycase, that also has nothing to do with Luke being more powerful then AOTC Anakin.

Um, excuse me? You initially said this was a lie, and asked for proof, and I gave the exact quotes, and sourced it for you. What more can I do for you here?

Originally posted by PurpleSaber
Wow, I love it how you try to overrule the ultimate canon (GL) by your own opinions. Haha.

GL is not the ultimate level of canon. The movies are that.

And guess who created the movies?

who?

Nearly lost his fake hand to one? It was still working fine and we saw only minor surface damage.

It shows that he is quite vulnerable to getting injured by a blaster wielding opponent. I never saw Anakin getting shot in the hand.

The fact that droids were only able to defeat the primitive Gungans because of superior numbers makes me look poorly on them.

They defeated the Gungans because of superior numbers? Sorry Glentract, but did you watch TPM? The driods were kicking the snot out of the Gungans until Anakin destroyed the droid starship.

Again, you miss the point that although there were more people shooting at Geonosis, there was more people to shoot at also. For while the Jedi were winning there was a about a fourth as many people shooting at Anakin as there was at Luke.

There were thousands of droids in the arena. Including the new superbattle droids. Deadly droids built for battling. And you miss the point that out of the people Luke killed, half of them were armed with sticks and spears, which render helpless against a lightsaber wielding opponent.

Sorry, but it is really annoying to hear more things without sources.

It's all right. The proof is coming. Ush'll reply to my message. And if you don't believe me, you can ask Ush himself. Ush is probably the most GL biding member there is here. If I were really lying, I wouldn't even be telling you who I got the info from.

The Rise of Darth Vader.

Thanks for telling me. When did these events take place?

No, you haven't proven that, so don;t act like you did. Obi-wan's style is supposed to draw fights out, so just because Vader didn't defeat him in 10 seconds doesn't mean he was not superior to him.

And after about twenty years of just doing nothing, Obi-Wan is still gonna retain all of his lightsaber skills? Assuming Ush's quote is correct, ANH Obi-Wan is weaker than ROTS Obi-Wan. Just look at how easily Dooku polished off Obi-Wan in ROTS. If Vader were really as powerful as you deem him to be, Obi-Wan would have been pwned.

Not any old goons, but the goons of one of the biggest criminals in the galaxy.

Did you see how unprofessional they were though? Most of them were armed with sticks and spears, and one of the few people who were armed with blasters managed to shoot Luke in the hand. Anakin faced many battle droids in the arena, and he didn't get wounded by a blaster shot.

Lucas didn't say Force powers. The 80% is overall.

Interesting, when I google search "Vader is 80% of Sidious", it all says "force powers".

There's a difference though. Maul was beating Obi-Wan for 99% of the duel. Vader was never beating Luke.

What? Obi-Wan was kicking Maul's ass in their 1 on 1 duel.

I don't know anyone here who is a Luke fanboy. I see a few who don't underestimate Luke just because of his baseball stance, though.

The movies clearly portray Luke to swing his lightsaber like a baseball bat, and since GL never even bothered to remake the duels, or never even said that the choreographies was a factor in their duels, what is the proof behind Luke being a uberleet swordsman, if the movies and GL, the two highest sources of cannon, apparently say "no"?

So destroying Boba's weapon followed by Boba falling over isn't a sign of him getting pwnd?

um...Han was the one who killed Boba. Or are you talking about a different part?

Hmm, lets see... well, Maul first took on both Jedi at once. He kicked Maul twice, once off a catwalk, nearly killing the Jedi. Then he proceeded to kick Kenobi's Master's ass. Then Obi-Wan got pisses and attacked Maul with hatred, matching th Sith Lord. Then, as Maul started to gain control he kicked Obi-Wan again and then Force pushed his ass into a bottomless pit. Had Qui-Gon not been involved Obi-Wan woukld have been doomed.

I never saw Obi-Wan winning, either. I saw him and Maul being even for a short period of time.


And of course you can use the Force in a duel, why couldn't you, the Force is used in nearly every duel.


Movies or GL, which is more canon? Hmm... confused1

Here's a question, you all claim that Malak (and Revan) are powerful saber duelist and powerful in the Force and yet the most we saw Malak do was like enable two people from fighting at the most. We clearly have no idea of his saber skills (considering all we seen him in was as boss fights) so why are you saying Malak would win?
I see nothing real powerful with Malak (and Revan with that matter). Sidious proved to be stronger then those two. We saw Revan enable like one person at a time maybe more but Sidious was throwing giant pods around like they were feathers. You saw the KoToR Jedi are better then the PT Jedi and yet their is no proof. I fail to see how you are saying that Malak is better then RotS Anakin or RotJ Luke for that matter. I have just finished replaying KoToR I again and I have noticed that Revan nor Malak have done anything that Sidious hadn't outclassed in RotS.

Hmm, lets see... one alone dealed with Lando and they seemed to be pretty good shots, alot better then battle droids, anyway.

No, not sticks and spears, but vibro-axes, with can block lightsaber's.

he also didn't have Leia run past him in a Bikini.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Vader+is+80%25+of+Sidious&btnG=Search

so yeah, the first one says it's with the Force. It's also titled "Darth Vader: retarted?" All the other ones say 80% as powerful.
GL didn't say no, he said Vader's 80% of Sidious and then had Luke kick Vader's ass. And seriously, do you really want lucas to remake the duels, cause I don't think very many people do.

Different part, obviously.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
GL is not the ultimate level of canon. The movies are that.

Concerning the movies, GL is the highest canon, Glentract.

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies and anything coming directly from George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements coming directly from Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon (see below).

When the matter of changes between movie versions is brought up, the remastered editions are deemed superior to the theatrical ones, since they correct mistakes and 'improve' consistency between the two trilogies. They also express Lucas' "original" intention and also final word

You attempting to overrule Gl concerning the movies is moot. Nice try, fanboy.


http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/272/pwnedbaby6fo.jpg

Is this even a fight? You're pitting a Sith Lord of rather notable combat reputation versus a person who displayed the lightsabre skills of a slug and another person who's rather promising skills were brought down a notch by Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Malak WTFpwns these two...

Originally posted by Wesker
Concerning the movies, GL is the highest canon, Glentract.

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies and anything coming directly from George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements coming directly from Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon (see below).

When the matter of changes between movie versions is brought up, the remastered editions are deemed superior to the theatrical ones, since they correct mistakes and 'improve' consistency between the two trilogies. They also express Lucas' "original" intention and also final word

You attempting to overrule Gl concerning the movies is moot. Nice try, fanboy.



Of course that means that R2-D2 is the most powerful ever, Lucas says so

"He doesn't need any special powers. He's already the most powerful person on the screen there. R2-D2 is the hero." R2-D2 pwns.

Haha, nice pics Janus.

Originally posted by Wesker
Concerning the movies, GL is the highest canon, Glentract.

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies and anything coming directly from George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements coming directly from Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon (see below).

When the matter of changes between movie versions is brought up, the remastered editions are deemed superior to the theatrical ones, since they correct mistakes and 'improve' consistency between the two trilogies. They also express Lucas' "original" intention and also final word

You attempting to overrule Gl concerning the movies is moot. Nice try, fanboy.

Where exactly does it say that GL is a higher level of canon then the movies?

Considering that Lucas created the work, he can do what the **** he wants with it.

It's common sense.

The fact that the movies are retconned to fit GL's "intention" means that he is indeed, the force behind them. For movies, GL is ultimate canon. The fact that you are arguing this means you are the biggest fanboy I have ever seen. You make Lightsnake look like an amateur.

Originally posted by Wesker
The fact that the movies are retconned to fit GL's "intention" means that he is indeed, the force behind them. For movies, GL is ultimate canon. The fact that you are arguing this means you are the biggest fanboy I have ever seen. You make Lightsnake look like an amateur.

How does the show that GL is a higher level source then the movies? If we take GL as the ultimate level of canon, then you always calling OT Vader weak makes no sense as he is 80% of strong as Sidious. It also makes Luke far beyond AOTC Anakin, or perhaps even ROTS Anakin(which even I would not claim) unless you can somehow show that Anakin as of AOTC is greater then 80% of Vader. If me calling GL less canonical then the movies makes me a fanboy, then you are too as you have done it more times then me. I guess we can just be brothers in total fanboyism, eh?

I still have yet to see any quotes that make Luke > AOTC Anakin, Glentract. Once you provide those, I'll entertain them. In the meantime, in absence of GL's word on the issue itself, the movie is used since it resembles his intent. AOTC Anakin is VERY skilled, very expereinced, and has higher force potential than Luke, period.

Originally posted by Wesker
I still have yet to see any quotes that make Luke > AOTC Anakin, Glentract. Once you provide those, I'll entertain them. In the meantime, in absence of GL's word on the issue itself, the movie is used since it resembles his intent. AOTC Anakin is VERY skilled, very expereinced, and has higher force potential than Luke, period.
OT Vader = 80% of Sidious. Source: Lucas
Luke > OT Vader. Source: Return of the Jedi

So unless you think AOTC Anakin is more than 80% of Sidious...

Originally posted by Wesker
I still have yet to see any quotes that make Luke > AOTC Anakin, Glentract. Once you provide those, I'll entertain them. In the meantime, in absence of GL's word on the issue itself, the movie is used since it resembles his intent. AOTC Anakin is VERY skilled, very expereinced, and has higher force potential than Luke, period.

Lets look at it this way. Luke beats Vader. Vader is 80% as powerful as Sidious. If Luke was 10% as strong as Vader, he would not have been able to overpower him. Hence, Luke pwns AOTC Anakin assuming we go only guy GL 's word.