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The FF vs Superman.My money is on the FF for reasons I well explain later after I hear some other opinion.

Althought the FF are capable of taking down hugely powerful enemies, Supermans speed, strength, invulnerability and assortment of powers, would defeat them eventually.

Originally posted by Xirius
Althought the FF are capable of taking down hugely powerful enemies, Supermans speed, strength, invulnerability and assortment of powers, would defeat them eventually. I totally agree, man Superman would make pebbles out of thing.

OK the FF have taken on grate powers before like Hulk,Juggernaut,Firelord,and Raw.The also taken on much more powerful beans then supes like Silver Surfer,Gladiator ,and Galactus.Plus it will not take Read long at all to find out one of Supes weakness's.One of them is right in the team in Johny.Johny can go supernova(a supernova is a large red sun/star) witch the light from a red sun makes Superman lose all his powers and basically becomes human when this is down supes will be finished.Also Sue could put a force bubble in Superman's lungs are if all els fails they could just call on little boy Francklin Richard.

A Supernova is not a red star and Torch doesn't generate solar energy, just intense heat.

A giant red star is could a supernova.Check it up.

I know. A red giant can and will supernova but a supernova isn't inherently a red giant. A white dwarf can go nova.

Originally posted by Blade Cutter
A giant red star is could a supernova.Check it up.

do you hear that

hubble turning in his grave

Well, we know that Superman can absorb solar energy because his body is partially photosynthetic, but can he survive a Supernova?

Is it hotter then the sun?

Without prep time they lose horribly, within seconds in fact. Supes moves at sub light speed, he'd be able to take out each and every member way before a thought had registered in their heads, literally. He moves and thinks at speeds exponentially faster than the standard speed of thought the F4 operate at. Give them prep time (i.e time for Sue to put up her shields and time for Reed to analyse Supes) otherwise its conclusively a slaughter

Originally posted by inamilist
do you hear that

hubble turning in his grave

Line of the day, a classic put down Genius inamilist you made me smile my friend


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Without prep time they lose horribly, within seconds in fact. Supes moves at sub light speed, he'd be able to take out each and every member way before a thought had registered in their heads, literally. He moves and thinks at speeds exponentially faster than the standard speed of thought the F4 operate at. Give them prep time (i.e time for Sue to put up her shields and time for Reed to analyse Supes) otherwise its conclusively a slaughter

All true!

You all give Reed Richards way too much credit, I know he's smart and would eventually find Supermans weakness, bt come on, it would take Reed what like a week to come up with some weapon, and Sue's bubble shield crap would'nt last long against Supes. pounding on it, or firering his heatvision at her, thing is virtually the only one who could hit fight with him, but would get turned into pebbles like i posted befor, and Johny, well he is a good match for Superman, but would evntually get burned, "no pun intended" Now Reed, when he finally comes up with his weapon, in the time it takes him to pull the trigger, Superman will have already stretched his ass to its limits, and killed him.

Originally posted by Thorin
You all give Reed Richards way too much credit, I know he's smart and would eventually find Supermans weakness, bt come on, it would take Reed what like a week to come up with some weapon, and Sue's bubble shield crap would'nt last long against Supes. pounding on it, or firering his heatvision at her, thing is virtually the only one who could hit fight with him, but would get turned into pebbles like i posted befor, and Johny, well he is a good match for Superman, but would evntually get burned, "no pun intended" Now Reed, when he finally comes up with his weapon, in the time it takes him to pull the trigger, Superman will have already stretched his ass to its limits, and killed him.

All true

Heres how Supes takes down the FF. Sues shield may temporarily save her but she will go down.

No air means no flame for Johnny.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Supermanvortexin.jpg

Originally posted by Blade Cutter
OK the FF have taken on grate powers before like Hulk,Juggernaut,Firelord,and Raw.The also taken on much more powerful beans then supes like Silver Surfer,Gladiator ,and Galactus.Plus it will not take Read long at all to find out one of Supes weakness's.One of them is right in the team in Johny.Johny can go supernova(a supernova is a large red sun/star) witch the light from a red sun makes Superman lose all his powers and basically becomes human when this is down supes will be finished.Also Sue could put a force bubble in Superman's lungs are if all els fails they could just call on little boy Francklin Richard.

I don't recall the team ever dealing with Juggernaut.

As much as I love the F.F. and as good as they are, they just DO NOT have anything to take down Superman. Maybe with some prep and let Reed come up with something, maybe!! But if this fight went down without any notice, R.I.P. Fantastic Four!!!!!

Superman vs. Reed Richards = Supes can fry him with his heat vision or stretch him for miles until the strain would be too much for Reed.

Superman vs. Invisible Woman = Supes would know where she was even if she was invisible. He could hear, smell, and see her with his enhanced super-senses and infrared vision; and her force fields couldn't take his super-strong punches...also cutting off Supes air with a force bubble won't do squat to someone that can hold their breath for hours!

Superman vs. Human Torch = Sorry Johnny, but fire don't do squat against the man of STEEL!!! Unless you go nova maybe, but Supes is gonna snuff out your flame with either his artic breath or he'll just clap his hands together really hard to snuff you out and send you through about 6 floors of the Baxter Building before you even get the opportunity.

Superman vs. The Thing = Thing is strong sure, but Supes is stronger, A LOT STRONGER!!!!! The Thing's punches wouldn't even faze Supes much, if any, that is if Thing was even able to land a punch. You can't hit what you can't see...and when someone's moving at near-light speed, you're not going to see your target to hit it. Say G'night Benjy boy!!!

Maybe if this was Superman vs. The Avengers, things would be very different, but the F.F. don't have a chance against the last son of Krypton...SUPERMAN!

Originally posted by Fanboy
Is it hotter then the sun?

A Supernova is a star exploding, so yes, it is, but Superman flying though the sun isn't much of a feat, considering his body is naturally enhanced by the sun's rays. Also, if Ben Grim hit Superman, he's gonna go flying. It's just physics. Ben's haymaker is enough to knock back 100 tons of force coming at him. Superman weighs about 250 pounds at best. He's gonna fly back. It's pure physics. Will it hurt Superman? More than likely not. However, he's still gonna fly back a bit. That's a bit of a duh.

Originally posted by Blade Cutter
The FF vs Superman.My money is on the FF for reasons I well explain later after I hear some other opinion. use the damn search button

Originally posted by Fanboy
Is it hotter then the sun?

Billions of times hotter.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Heres how Supes takes down the FF. Sues shield may temporarily save her but she will go down.

No air means no flame for Johnny.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Supermanvortexin.jpg

Sue's forcefields can withstand Galactus's might. I think that she can hold up against Supes.

I'm not sure if those are actually flames coming from Johnny's body. If they are, then you're right. But they might not be.

Has he ever been doused by water?

thor and hulk have applied enough pressure in the past to cause her to nearly collapse. even 10 000 thor/hulk level blows in a matter of seconds . . . her mind wouldn't handle the strain, i don't think . . .

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Sue's forcefields can withstand Galactus's might. I think that she can hold up against Supes.

I'm not sure if those are actually flames coming from Johnny's body. If they are, then you're right. But they might not be.

Has he ever been doused by water? I know Gladiator used his super breath to blow Johnnies flames out one time.

Originally posted by leonidas
thor and hulk have applied enough pressure in the past to cause her to nearly collapse. even 10 000 thor/hulk level blows in a matter of seconds . . . her mind wouldn't handle the strain, i don't think . . .

I would imagine that Galactus is a lot stronger than either, but that certainly is something to consider.

you're likely right, but the duration of her field is sometimes in question, cc. she seems to be able to take a lot of punishment, but SOMETIMES not over a prolonged period of time. so, one blast from galactus it could withstand. multiple g shots? i don't see it my friend . . . likewise multiple supes' shots.

Supes can punch through a GL construct. I think he can do the same to Sue.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I know Gladiator used his super breath to blow Johnnies flames out one time.

So he has? Well I don't exactly know the mechanism of Johnny's heat-controlling powers, but I guess Superman could do the same with his breath.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Supes can punch through a GL construct. I think he can do the same to Sue.

I'd bet Galactus could punch through a GL construct too. But he couldn't punch through Sue's forcefield.

Besides, Sue can even deflect X rays with her radiation bending powers. How would he see her?

It is possible that he could hear her, but I'm not sure if that would be enough information with which he could place an good attack. And even then, she's still got her forcefields, so she's never defenseless.

I just can't think of a decent offense that they could mount.

sue's certainly the tough one of the group, and it might take some work, but i don't see her lasting all that long after the others fall.

Originally posted by leonidas
sue's certainly the tough one of the group, and it might take some work, but i don't see her lasting all that long after the others fall.

Johnny is the only one who could possibly harm Superman, and his defensive abilities are simply too low. Superman wins, as far as I'm concerned.

The FF is a prep-team. Superman is just too big of a threat for them to handle without notice.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I'd bet Galactus could punch through a GL construct too. But he couldn't punch through Sue's forcefield.

Besides, Sue can even deflect X rays with her radiation bending powers. How would he see her?

It is possible that he could hear her, but I'm not sure if that would be enough information with which he could place an good attack. And even then, she's still got her forcefields, so she's never defenseless.

I just can't think of a decent offense that they could mount. Supes can see invisible foes. He Has done it in the past. He see's them like a x-ray.

Or he can hear her like he did in the Superman/Silver Surfer crossover.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Supes can see invisible foes. He Has done it in the past. He see's them like a x-ray.

Or he can hear her like he did in the Superman/Silver Surfer crossover.

He sees them with X-ray vision. Sue can bend X-rays as well. She can bend virtually any form of ambient electromagnetic radiation.

I already said that.

Supes will get through the force fields even faster than Glads did.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
He sees them with X-ray vision. Sue can bend X-rays as well. She can bend virtually any form of ambient electromagnetic radiation.

I already said that. That's nice. But how would she know to do that? Does she do that all of the time?

The Thing knocking Supes backwards? I don't think so...not if Supes doesn't want to be knocked back...ever read the 2nd crossover Marvel did with DC...the one where Superman and Spider-man fought the Parasite and Doc Doom? Remember the battle between Superman and the Incredible Hulk? Remember when the Hulk couldn't even budge Superman when Superman didn't want to budge? So, if the Hulk couldn't even faze Superman with his most powerful punches, then I highly doubt The Thing could do much...unless he caught him off guard, then and only then could The Thing knock him back. But if Supes don't want to budge, he ain't budgin'!!!

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Supes will get through the force fields even faster than Glads did.

Gladiator cheated.Originally posted by snoopdogg
That's nice. But how would she know to do that? Does she do that all of the time?
Yes.

Originally posted by Comicbook_kid
The Thing knocking Supes backwards? I don't think so...not if Supes doesn't want to be knocked back...ever read the 2nd crossover Marvel did with DC...the one where Superman and Spider-man fought the Parasite and Doc Doom? Remember the battle between Superman and the Incredible Hulk? Remember when the Hulk couldn't even budge Superman when Superman didn't want to budge? So, if the Hulk couldn't even faze Superman with his most powerful punches, then I highly doubt The Thing could do much...unless he caught him off guard, then and only then could The Thing knock him back. But if Supes don't want to budge, he ain't budgin'!!!

Pre-crisis Supes.

However, Superman can fly. I think he can control his inerta so he would not be knocked back.

Human Torch is a non-factor.

Well, anyway I'll take a gamble and say that Galactus is stronger than Gladiator, and I think that Sue holding off Galactus is just a high end feat for her.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Human Torch is a non-factor.

That's Gladiator.

Not Superman.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Well, anyway I'll take a gamble and say that Galactus is stronger than Gladiator, and I think that Sue holding off Galactus is just a high end feat for her. Maybe the big G was very weak at the time. Which he usually is not full-power in his appearances.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Maybe the big G was very weak at the time. Which he usually is not full-power in his appearances.
Good point.

is wonderwoman a low or high level class 100 ? cause her punches rocked superman and if shes a low level class 100 that would be at things level.....

she's near Supes level. wayyy beyond thing. she could literally knock thing out with a pinkie.

I agree she could beat thing but not with a pinky .Do you think im 5 years old or something.....

weres the moderator when you need him.

Johnny can do a thermite-type flame, so he doesn't always need oxygen, and then Superman couldn't touch him without getting hurt. Also, Sue Richards' force field are more than likely more powerful than GL constructs.

supermen type characters have always given the ff trouble gladiator ,back in 70s marvel boy he was a superman based character and he owned the 4.

And Superman doesn't even need to use his super-breath to blow Johnny out.

In Fantastic Four/X-Men, Rogue threw Johnny into a bank of snow - which doused him instantly.

i doubt highly that Sues are more powerful than a GL. Kyle contained Imperiex's essence which was a new Big Bang.

actually she could do it. he has like low class 100 and she has like class 10000000. She could bludgeon him with one finger.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
And Superman doesn't even need to use his super-breath to blow Johnny out.

In Fantastic Four/X-Men, Rogue threw Johnny into a bank of snow - which doused him instantly.

haha...I can count on both hands the number of times Johnny has been doused by a fire extinguisher and fire hydrant...

Originally posted by demigawd
haha...I can count on both hands the number of times Johnny has been doused by a fire extinguisher and fire hydrant...

yeah, I think he is dependant on the amount of oxygen around him. Superman can easily take that away.
The Fantastic Four are just outclassed here.

A team of 4 isn't doing any better than a team that fills up a city.
Supes wins.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Supes beats down a city full of villains, and pulls off a stylish move or two...

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/9963/superman60950qq.th.jpg

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/9685/superman60960hc.th.jpg

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/463/superman60974em.th.jpg

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4702/superman60980cw.th.jpg

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/3017/superman609108bq.th.jpg

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4959/superman609124ed.th.jpg

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/7264/superman609150vs.th.jpg

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/9255/superman609165uu.th.jpg

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/1483/superman609187vv.th.jpg

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5773/superman609190gm.th.jpg

Can't Sue just go intangible and phase through Supes or force crush his heart?

Supes can go intangible as well.

Superman cannot go intangible. Oh and i dont think Susan would do that becuase Superman would just fly up and waited until her powers tired and then he would attack her.

I try to imagine these fights as if they were done in a comic and try to block out "PIS", "CIS", "speedblitz" etc, and in which case I think this wouldn't be as easy a battle as some think, the FF work together better than any other team and as a combination can be really effective, but Superman would eventually win.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Supes can go intangible as well.

Indeed he can vibrate that fast

Can Invisible Woman be intangible?

the FF has thought out ways to beat Galactus they'll find a way to beat supes via Reed Richards.

Originally posted by spideycarnage
the FF has thought out ways to beat Galactus they'll find a way to beat supes via Reed Richards.

No! they wouldn't they would be fantasticly dead in four nanoseconds!

haha give reed one hour prep, they'll beat him

Originally posted by spideycarnage
haha give reed one hour prep, they'll beat him

He gets no prep in this thread and it would take a lot more than an hour. 4 nanoseconds

Originally posted by spideycarnage
the FF has thought out ways to beat Galactus they'll find a way to beat supes via Reed Richards. Dosn't somebody usually help them though?

Like the Watcher.

Superman is superman, they lose

Unless Reed has time to analyze Superman, figure his weaknesses and concoct devices to take advantage, it will go something like this:

Johnny: "Flame---"
S P E E D B L I T Z: 1-2-3-4
"....on...?"
....collapse...

Originally posted by Nick1989
Superman cannot go intangible. Oh and i dont think Susan would do that becuase Superman would just fly up and waited until her powers tired and then he would attack her.

Umm..yes he can...he can also go invisible...

He does it via super speed vibrations, tricks he learned from the flash...