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Ok, master and apprentice take on another master and apprentice, though im not sure if its been done before, cant search atm : server overload, im sure Kun and Ulic take this with rather ease, and dont flame me you Revan Fanboys out there.

Either Ulic or Exar could take Revan(the stronger of the two) and then the other would just rip Malak to pieces. Exar and Ulic pwn.

Exar and Ulic pwn in either team combination, faster if Exar is paired with Malak for some ridiculous reason.

IKC, you are so obviously wrong. Revan has been shown to be Exar's superior in just about everything.

Malak could take Kun easily, IMO.

So, Revan easily WTFpwns Kun and Malak easily sabre-rapes Ulic.

Case closed, folks...

Here's the part where I ask the obvious question - What's this "everything" fanboys speak of?

I want to know that too... Both of them have great skills but to stand up against Exar Kun his energy blasts? I seriously doubt it.

Originally posted by Darth Traya
IKC, you are so obviously wrong. Revan has been shown to be Exar's superior in just about everything.

Malak could take Kun easily, IMO.

So, Revan easily WTFpwns Kun and Malak easily sabre-rapes Ulic.

Case closed, folks...

I think the lady's drinkin' early tonight.

Originally posted by IKC
Here's the part where I ask the obvious question - What's this "everything" fanboys speak of?



IKC, Revan is the "heart of the force". Ergo, he must win as the will of the force is with him!

Teh chuseon one!

Me too...

Malak could pwn Kun? I'm sorry, I didn't realize your post was sarcastic, Traya...

Ah, but according to Ragnos, because of Exar Kun the Sith will never die!

That means he must be immortal and invincible! Teh pwnzor!

z0MG!!!!!!!!!111111 j00 r s0 ryt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

s1th pWnz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

and of course you can never leave out the factor of Kun's haxxorz.

HAXXORZ!

Kun brushes his teeth. Revan does not. Ergo, Kun wins by default.

revan doesn't brush his teeth? He is one of the most charismatic Jedi out there, how could he be that without brushing his teeth. People with bad breath suck..

btw: How drunk are you Traya? :P

Why do you think he wore a mask, Fishy?

zOMG, pwnt!

Originally posted by IKC
Why do you think he wore a mask, Fishy?

zOMG, pwnt!

Good point Exar takes Revan...

But not Malak, Malak has an electronic Jaw he can't have a bad breath

Originally posted by Fishy
revan doesn't brush his teeth? He is one of the most charismatic Jedi out there, how could he be that without brushing his teeth. People with bad breath suck..

btw: How drunk are you Traya? :P

Drunk? I'm not drunk, I've just had a glass of wine, that's all.

IMDSA not dssrsunk!

Originally posted by Darth Traya
Drunk? I'm not drunk, I've just had a glass of wine, that's all.

IMDSA not dssrsunk!

Okay well your acting drunk at least

Originally posted by Fishy
Good point Exar takes Revan...

But not Malak, Malak has an electronic Jaw he can't have a bad breath

Nonsense, Malak must have had such bad breath that Kavar had to cut his jaw off before retreating in disgust.

Bad breath turns me on, honest.

Originally posted by Darth Traya
Bad breath turns me on, honest.

In that case, there's some people here in South Carolina who chew tobacco.

njwr.['hjnry

Originally posted by IKC
Nonsense, Malak must have had such bad breath that Kavar had to cut his jaw off before retreating in disgust.

Only Revan cut of his jaw..

Still you are probably right.

Originally posted by Fishy
Only Revan cut of his jaw..

Still you are probably right.

*coproveupugh*

It's said a Jedi cut it off. Kavar confronted Malak and was one of the best duelists. If it wasn't Kavar, it was an inferior duelist, which speaks even less for Malak.

Originally posted by IKC
*coproveupugh*

It's said a Jedi cut it off. Kavar confronted Malak and was one of the best duelists. If it wasn't Kavar, it was an inferior duelist, which speaks even less for Malak.

Have you read the other thread where I posted a reply to this? Its the only logical explanation. Besides Revan wasn't considered a Sith until he returned at the head of an invasion fleet, and Malak could have lost his jaw long time already when that took place.

Also logically speaking, Kavar couldn't have cut of Malak his jaw, because Kavar didn't even exist until long after Kotor. I know bullshit argument, but its clear that the creators of Kotor did not intent for Kavar to have cut of Malak his jaw and the most logical explanation is Revan in any case so it doesn't really matter anyway.

What? Malak is a really really good duelist. He is on par with Darth PHTA FWSYDVIKUGFYFOEGEFTIEUGLFVEFTGFOYPIFG{F(GH$PYF{($Y
pahpihey8hehf8ehgieltrhogyethgoetpgpehg hrpgeyghuegheyhguiehgpuiehruigheug = hnrehkgbhrebge ~ ujnrehgberhbdeathtothenileofdeathrwgp3h39uhphHUYEO
HG9E3H3GT43HGT39H439GH3GT.

Originally posted by Fishy
Have you read the other thread where I posted a reply to this? Its the only logical explanation. Besides Revan wasn't considered a Sith until he returned at the head of an invasion fleet, and Malak could have lost his jaw long time already when that took place.

Also logically speaking, Kavar couldn't have cut of Malak his jaw, because Kavar didn't even exist until long after Kotor. I know bullshit argument, but its clear that the creators of Kotor did not intent for Kavar to have cut of Malak his jaw and the most logical explanation is Revan in any case so it doesn't really matter anyway.

A lot of things are changed at the last moment. Kavar not cutting off his jaw could have easily been retconned, particularly since we do not know of who did.

It is mentioned that Malak lost his jaw to a Jedi, Kavar is a likely candidate.

Originally posted by Illustrious
A lot of things are changed at the last moment. Kavar not cutting off his jaw could have easily been retconned, particularly since we do not know of who did.

It is mentioned that Malak lost his jaw to a Jedi, Kavar is a likely candidate.

Likely the most likely, but still second to Revan who is far more likely to have done this. A few quick reasons i'll explain in a bigger post if you want later on tomorrow or something, I don't feel like it right now


We don't know how powerful Kavar was compared to Malak
Malak sustained a Mortal wound yet he survived, why would a Sith let him live, killing him would mean a higher rank
the only Sith that couldn't get a higher rank was Revan, ergo Revan decided to let him live, if a Sith was there when Malak lost his jaw
Malak and Revan once fought before.
If Kavar cut of Malak his jaw why would he have started running away? I mean he has no visible injuries, and there weren't any other Sith there that could challenge Kavar or make him stop, we know this because Malak survived. And any sign of weakness was a reason to strike like seen in the accademy on Korriban.
How could Malak have found the quick medical aid he needed if there were no sith around, and there weren't becuase he would be dead if there were.
Of course its possible that Revan was around watching the fight and ordered his troops to restore Kavar, but he would never have let Kavar leave also not fighting Kavar himself would have been a sign of weakness.
Now one could argue there were Jedi there as well, but they would have likely killed Malak, and unless Revan was there alone it would have been a battle between Jedi and Stih and Revan would still have killed Kavar who ran away wounded.
If Kavar had won the fight he wouldn't have been said to have lost the fight.
If he cut of Malak his jaw it would have likely been known.


I'll explain better tomorrow if you wish, I just think the possiblity of it being Kavar are very slim, if you wish to argue it is Kavar please adress these points or just tell me you wish to see more reasons which i'll post tomorrow.

I still believe R2 is a force god who could take all 4 of these with a single beep.

Well duh, Lucas has said R2 is the most powerful so its cannon R2 is the most powerful but that has nothing to do with this thraed.

I'm going to go over the mountain of assumptions you've made to get to your point, Fishy.



1 assumption. The person who did it was a Jedi, not a "Sith" as Revan was when they dueled for the title of Dark Lord. You have no proof that it was Revan.



2 assumptions. That's nonsense. Kavar was the leader of the Jedi Guardians, a Jedi council member, and Malak's superior before he went to fight the Mandalorian Wars. Because the one who cut off Malak's jaw was said to be a Jedi, and Kavar was among the best lightsaber duelists and confronted Malak personally, it is reasonable to believe that Kavar did it.



...Have you not been paying attention? A Jedi did it, not a Sith.



Again, a Jedi did it.



...for the title of Dark Lord, ergo they were already "Sith."



The circumstances of their encounter were never described.



Absence of proof is proof of absence?



3 assumptions. Nobody knows the circumstances of their fight! Why in God's name do you, then, assume that Malak had no backup?



Any sign of weakness? What the hell are you talking about? The Sith were not backstabbing each other constantly or else they'd never have put up an actual fight to the Republic.



4 assumptions. You have no idea what the circumstances of the fight were but you inject ridiculous extrapolations from wildly different scenarios to predict someone's behavior, and ergo assume that they must not have been there? Nonsense.



What?

5 assumptions, now? How the hell would you know if Revan was watching the fight? Nothing is known about the confrontation, Fishy, save this: Kavar confronted Malak, and was forced to retreat. The circumstances other than that very vague guideline are unknown.



If "one could argue that there were Jedi there" then one can argue that some faux Sith were there, too. If Malak can stand up to the best of them, what makes you think they would have killed him?

Actually, this part of your post is nearly incoherent at second glance. What the hell are you talking about?



Actually he was said to have been forced to retreat. 6 assumptions, now. The circumstances are unknown!



It is known that a Jedi did it. If it wasn't Kavar, that knocks Malak down a few notches.

I don't remember Revan fighting Malak when he was a Jedi, that alone makes assuming Revan possibly could have done it an assumption. Assuming he did is doubly so.

Actually you're all wrong. Malak just broke his last razor because the stubble on his chin was too dark for any razor to handle, so he activated his lightsaber, but instead of turning it down to low power, he accidently set it to full power...Thus...we conclude that Malak lost his jaw in an unfortunate shaving accident.

It can happen folks! Sith are just that stupid.

Originally posted by Darth Traya
IKC, you are so obviously wrong. Revan has been shown to be Exar's superior in just about everything.

Malak could take Kun easily, IMO.

So, Revan easily WTFpwns Kun and Malak easily sabre-rapes Ulic.

Case closed, folks...

1) How was Revan superior except for his tactical mind? Might i remind you, that Revan was not on par with Kun, yes he craved knowledge and he lusted for power, but remember since most of the most powerful secrets of the Ancient Sith and Jedi were lost, Revan had no chance to learn any of them, You may say Revan was trained by the most skilled jedi masters who may have had the knowledge, but how? traya, Kavar, Vrook all those masters were either jedi knights or padawans, since they were around the age, of 20-30, none of them were true prodigies that ranked with The Jedi masters such as Odan-Urr and Vodo, the same jedi masters that got easily destroyed by Kun.

2) Where does it show Malak to on par with Ulic? He had lesser experience and neither did he have the tactic mind Revan possessed, Ulic, though reckless stalemated Exar Kun, a Dark Lord, who studied the Ancient Sith's secrets, who learned from various holocrons.

3) If indeed Revan is as powerful as you say, why did none of the Ancient Sith grant him recognition? and why was Kun accepted among the ranks of the Ancient Sith? The reason is that, in raw potential Kun surpasses Revan, in Lightsaber technique and skills Kun is superior to Revan.

4) If you want to base it upon feats, then ok yes Revan defeated the Mandolarians and he defeated Malak on the Star Forge, however Kun walked to Coruscant froze thousands of people, rescued Ulic, and killed Vodo, he also managed to keep thousand upon thousands of Jedi at bay, until he sacrificed all the massassi race to preserve his spirit.

5) Ulic and Malak: Ulic defeated mandalore when mandalore had every advantage, Malak fires upon Revan's ship when Revan is occupied and did not expect betrayal from malak, Ulic stalemated Kun, Malak lost to Revan on the Star Forge with his own powers boosted. In all these feats, Ulic displayes amazing powers while Malak displays pure cowardice.

Conclusion: In Lightsaber combat Exar Kun > Revan, Force Knowledge: Exar Kun > Revan and finally in the most impressieve feats Kun > Revan.

Conclusion 2: Lightsaber winner : Ulic Force Knowledge Winner :Ulic Feats: Ulic.

Woot, she was being sarcastic. It was a parody of Revan fanboy logic.

Originally posted by w00t2112
1) How was Revan superior except for his tactical mind? Might i remind you, that Revan was not on par with Kun, yes he craved knowledge and he lusted for power, but remember since most of the most powerful secrets of the Ancient Sith and Jedi were lost, Revan had no chance to learn any of them, You may say Revan was trained by the most skilled jedi masters who may have had the knowledge, but how? traya, Kavar, Vrook all those masters were either jedi knights or padawans, since they were around the age, of 20-30, none of them were true prodigies that ranked with The Jedi masters such as Odan-Urr and Vodo, the same jedi masters that got easily destroyed by Kun.

2) Where does it show Malak to on par with Ulic? He had lesser experience and neither did he have the tactic mind Revan possessed, Ulic, though reckless stalemated Exar Kun, a Dark Lord, who studied the Ancient Sith's secrets, who learned from various holocrons.

3) If indeed Revan is as powerful as you say, why did none of the Ancient Sith grant him recognition? and why was Kun accepted among the ranks of the Ancient Sith? The reason is that, in raw potential Kun surpasses Revan, in Lightsaber technique and skills Kun is superior to Revan.

4) If you want to base it upon feats, then ok yes Revan defeated the Mandolarians and he defeated Malak on the Star Forge, however Kun walked to Coruscant froze thousands of people, rescued Ulic, and killed Vodo, he also managed to keep thousand upon thousands of Jedi at bay, until he sacrificed all the massassi race to preserve his spirit.

5) Ulic and Malak: Ulic defeated mandalore when mandalore had every advantage, Malak fires upon Revan's ship when Revan is occupied and did not expect betrayal from malak, Ulic stalemated Kun, Malak lost to Revan on the Star Forge with his own powers boosted. In all these feats, Ulic displayes amazing powers while Malak displays pure cowardice.

Conclusion: In Lightsaber combat Exar Kun > Revan, Force Knowledge: Exar Kun > Revan and finally in the most impressieve feats Kun > Revan.

Conclusion 2: Lightsaber winner : Ulic Force Knowledge Winner :Ulic Feats: Ulic.

Nein, Teh REVAN pwns all !1111

It's pretty hot when she does it, actually.

>?<

Yeah, exactly. Question mark.

lol rofl my bad

Originally posted by IKC ]I'm going to go over the mountain of assumptions you've made to get to your point, Fishy.

You do that.



Revan wasn't called a Sith until after he returned at the head of an invasion fleet, Malak could have lost his jaw already then.



The only one making an assumption here is you, you have no idea how powerful Kavar is compared to Malak and yet you claim that he was able to stand up to him. This is based on absolutely nothing. And if you want to blame me for using assumptions then you would be wise not to make them yourself.



If you would read the rest of my post you would know why I said this. If Malak was wounded by a Jedi he would need medical aid, no Jedi would give him this, and no Sith would have let him live if he was mortally wounded. Simple as that.



Again assumption being debated here. However the point I made with that point, was still that Revan was the only sith that was or became higher in rank then Malak, so he was the only one that had a reason to let Malak live, any other Sith would have wanted him dead.



where they? How would you call somebody that has not left the Jedi and hasn't been made a sith yet? Ah thats right a Jedi. A Jedi did it, doesn't indicate anything. It could have been a million jedi and it could have been jedi that became Sith two hours later.



Well we know he ran away. If somebody loses his jaw and with that the ability to breath he isn't going to last very long now is he? So why would Kavar run? What could possibly have made Kavar run away after cutting of Malak his jaw, you come up with a logical explanation for it. Because I can not come up with one thats likely.



There is nothing to indicate that Kavar lost the fight because he was unable to continue fighting. If he was able to continue fighting and Malak was wounded like that, then he probably would have continued and he would have killed Malak.



Because both he and Kavar survived.

If a Sith was there then they would have either, chased Kavar when he started running to kill the weakened Kavar, and the most powerful of them would very likely have killed Malak.



Of course they wouldn't have done so constantly, but its made very clear on Korriban that if you have the chance to kill your superior and take over from him that you do so, kill him take over and become the new whatever he was. Of course you don't do this for every rank sometimes its easier to earn it, but special ranks. (head of the accademy, apprentice of the Dark Lord, Dark Lord)... Just look at how Malak took Revan his title, he wasn't more powerful. He bombarded Revan his ship and took his title. That shows they backstab when they have the chance.



I'm just stating a few possibility's, I tried to make that clear by putting it all in a list. However that obviously escaped you. And again how is this ridiculious, I have already proved that the Sith would have killed him if they were there, they would have killed Kavar as well. Unless a Sith that would want Malak to live was there, and that could only have been Revan, but if Revan was there when Kavar cut of Malak his jaw, would Kavar really have survived?



I'm trying to find out what happened there, and like I already said. There is no way Sith would have let him live, there is no way the Sith would have let Kavar retreat. Malak needed medical help and he would have needed it fast.



What makes me think they would have killed Malak? He was mortally wounded... Malak would never have been able to fight his best if he was able to fight at all, it would be far easier and every self respecting Sith would have tried to take Malak out there and then but they didn't. Every Jedi that could have been there would have tried to take out Malak as well after Kavar cut of his jaw. Logical conclusion there were no other Jedi and Sith present when Malak lost his jaw if he lost his jaw in a fight against Kavar.



Posting drunk sucks, anyways the point is. If Malak lost his jaw against Kavar then there wouldn't have been any other Jedi and Sith there. Kavar would have ran away when he could have killed Malak, which makes no sense. So the most logical conclusion is that Malak didn't lose his jaw in a fight against Kavar.



Yet you assume Kavar cut of his jaw, with no evidence supporting it at all. Except for one quote which can be seen in a lot of different ways.



Unless of course it was Revan. Who is as far as we know the only one that ever bested Malak, the only we are sure of is powerful enough, the only one with a reason and the power to let Malak live, and we know the two fought before.

With Kavar all we have is. A Jedi cut of Malak his jaw, Kavar fought Malak, Kavar is the best lightsaber user of the Jedi.

Far less evidence supporting Kavar, logical conclusion it was Revan. Unless you can come up with a good reason why it was Kavar.

Kavar is the best lightsaber user of the Jedi? Have we all forgotten about Vrook? I hate to say this, he might be annoying, but his temper makes his Juyo technique quite effective.

Originally posted by Brotz
Kavar is the best lightsaber user of the Jedi? Have we all forgotten about Vrook? I hate to say this, he might be annoying, but his temper makes his Juyo technique quite effective.

We don't know if he used Juyo... Seeing as it depends on the game you play.

We don't know if he was stronger then Kavar, but everybody constantly says Kavar is the best lightsaber user of the Jedi, so he probably is the best lightsaber fighter in the Jedi Order. No evidence to support Vrook except for gameplay stuff which isn't canon.