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Ion (Rayner)

vs.

Shaper of Worlds

who wins?

Hmmm i dont actually know much about Ion , any differences from a basic GL ?

ummm he's basically stronger then parallax from what ive heard or at least the same

stronger? i dont know...

anyway, bump.

Ion rips shaper of worlds a new one.....

Originally posted by grey fox
Ion rips shaper of worlds a new one.....

Just a couple days ago you didn't know who either one was. What makes you so certain now?

Juntai and ion , one gave an explanation , the other a scan.

Post the scan!

It's nothing special , just the Gaurdians saying how rayner has more power then any other gl , plus when someone said he was like a good version of parralex . That helped greatly.

ehh, that isnt concrete enough im afraid. you do know shaper evolved from a cosmic cube right?

i dont think Rayner takes it as easy as that.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
ehh, that isnt concrete enough im afraid. you do know shaper evolved from a cosmic cube right?

i dont think Rayner takes it as easy as that.
He does. Read The Power of Ion. Rayner had no limits. This is a guy that had to focus himself so he didn't exist everywhere at all times.

Yeah! ION is right. KR as ION is nigh omnipotent while The S.O.W. and any other Cosmic Cube are considered as minor omnipotent, that was stated by Kubik himself when he explained to Kosmos how they were less powerful than the Celestials. He even gave the information of his own limit of power.

Originally posted by Diunic
Yeah! ION is right. KR as ION is nigh omnipotent while The S.O.W. and any other Cosmic Cube are considered as minor omnipotent, that was stated by Kubik himself when he explained to Kosmos how they were less powerful than the Celestials. He even gave the information of his own limit of power.

True...Shaper of Worlds was above Kubik though. They both evolved from CC's..but Shaper was above both Kubik and the false Beyonder.

I kwow but are you trying to say he would own ION because of that???

No Im not..just giving you the scope of his powers...he is onimpotent on a universal scale almost. He should be on the level of a minor Celestial.

Shaper of Worlds would win through the nature of his powers. Ion is a human with immense power so Shaper can easily manipulate him with his perfect illusions or fool him into thinking that he is more powerul than he seems. Besides Shaper doesn't seem like he would stick around for a giant battle. Shaper is above Kosmos who fooled top earth heroes that he wasa beyonder so Shaper could do it to Ion.

Guys we stand before a real dilemma here. Both are omnipotents beings. Who wins? I liked Pepito argument about the nature of S.O.W. powers.

Ion is pure emerald energy, not a human. I don't see how fooling Earth heros equates to fooling a nigh-omnipotent being.

Originally posted by Pepito
Shaper of Worlds would win through the nature of his powers. Ion is a human with immense power so Shaper can easily manipulate him with his perfect illusions or fool him into thinking that he is more powerul than he seems. Besides Shaper doesn't seem like he would stick around for a giant battle. Shaper is above Kosmos who fooled top earth heroes that he wasa beyonder so Shaper could do it to Ion.

good argument.

S.O.W. is no hero, he's a nigh omnipotent cosmic guy that once even created a pocket universe. It's a very good match!!!

Originally posted by Diunic
S.O.W. is no hero, he's a nigh omnipotent cosmic guy that once even created a pocket universe. It's a very good match!!!
Didn't say he was.

BTW, Kyle created a pocket universe before he had even fully absorbed the power of Oa. Pocket universes aren't that high up on the scale, relatively. Captain Atom created full size universes with their own Spectre's.

Allright!!!!

Originally posted by The Ion
Ion is pure emerald energy, not a human. I don't see how fooling Earth heros equates to fooling a nigh-omnipotent being.

Ion has a personality (namely Kyle's), while Shaper's major trait is not having one. If you have a human personality, you can be fooled.

you're good...

That is the S.O.W. advantage that would granted him the victory.

It would be a real good fight though. Wouldnt mind seeing it in a cross-over

Originally posted by Pepito
Ion has a personality (namely Kyle's), while Shaper's major trait is not having one. If you have a human personality, you can be fooled.
Of course however theres a gigantic difference between fooling Captain America and fooling a guy who borders on being abstract. Eternity has a personality. Would he be fooled by Shaper?

Originally posted by The Ion
Of course however theres a gigantic difference between fooling Captain America and fooling a guy who borders on being abstract. Eternity has a personality. Would he be fooled by Shaper?

Since when did Eternity have a personality? And anything false Beyonder was capable of, SoW could manifest.

You are manipulating informations in the wrong way to prove your point.
Personality is different of conscience in those cases.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Since when did Eternity have a personality? And anything false Beyonder was capable of, SoW could manifest.
Since always. Living Tribunal has a personality too. So does that psychotic Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by The Ion
Of course however theres a gigantic difference between fooling Captain America and fooling a guy who borders on being abstract. Eternity has a personality. Would he be fooled by Shaper?

Ion has a human personality, a human channeling a degree Eternity's power might be fooled. Ion is much weaker than Eternity. Perhaps Ion without kyle's personality and if he could use the same power without a host could win (although he is only as abstract as any other really powerful being, to be abstract you need to be a representation of something - Ion is abstract to the same extent that Batman is the abstract representation of a crimefighter named Bruce Wayne with a brilliant rec room)

Originally posted by Pepito
Ion has a human personality, a human channeling a degree Eternity's power might be fooled. Ion is much weaker than Eternity. Perhaps Ion without kyle's personality and if he could use the same power without a host could win (although he is only as abstract as any other really powerful being, to be abstract you need to be a representation of something - Ion is abstract to the same extent that Batman is the abstract representation of a crimefighter named Bruce Wayne with a brilliant rec room)
How would Ion be considered weaker than Eternity? His power, that of Oa, is a direct manifestation of willpower gathered from every living creature in the DC multiverse. I'd say the scope of his powers go far beyond Eternity who himself has been humbled on multiple occasions.

That's the point.

Originally posted by Diunic
That's the point.
Are you saying anything?

Just agreeing with Pepito argument.

Originally posted by The Ion
How would Ion be considered weaker than Eternity? His power, that of Oa, is a direct manifestation of willpower gathered from every living creature in the DC multiverse. I'd say the scope of his powers go far beyond Eternity who himself has been humbled on multiple occasions.

Just because marvel actually allow their omnipotent characters to do something interesting instead of just restarting the universe every time the writers dig themselves into a hole does not mena that the ultimate represntation of the universe is weaker than a giant battery. Eternity is never really beaten and can't be because he exists in whatever defeats him- if a dc character attacks him they enter his realm of being and so they become part of him. Ion cannot destroy everything (which is basically Eternity) and so is weaker than Eternity. Eternity is humbled but never defeated, if he exercises his full power then he can ensure nothing ever happens. He can be humbled in the same way that Zeus in greek myhtology can be humiliated by humans to the extent that he decides not to destroy them due to his respect. Ion isn't humbled because a) he's not important and powerful enough for it to matter b) he's never in a situation where he faces a serious enemy and c) because he's not the most powerful thing in the universe, tiny defeats don't count as humblings, they are just defeats as he ahs nothing to live up to.

Ion would defeat The SOWs but he isn't more powerful than Eternity, i'd say. Extremely Powerful, though. Ion is a universal being, and as such, is part of the universe which happens to be Eternity. Ion, you once said that Precrisis Darkseid is >>> Ion, yet precrisis DS was stated by his creator to be equal to Galactus, who is equal in status with Eternity. Have your views changed??

Ion>>>>>>>>Shaper of worlds

Power wise at least

Originally posted by UniOmni
Ion would defeat The SOWs but he isn't more powerful than Eternity, i'd say. Extremely Powerful, though. Ion is a universal being, and as such, is part of the universe which happens to be Eternity. Ion, you once said that Precrisis Darkseid is >>> Ion, yet precrisis DS was stated by his creator to be equal to Galactus, who is equal in status with Eternity. Have your views changed??
Not really. Galactus is equal in status with Eternity but at full power he's said to be able destroy the universe and thus destroy Eternity as well. Hell, Genis is said to destroy Eternity in all possible futures. I'm not sure destroying Eternity is that great a feat.

Then again DS and Galactus are both above Shaper so it doesn't matter much.

if parallax could rewrite the universe and fight spectre i put him on a higher petestole then eternity and i do believe he is more powerful and i do believe ion is more powerful or at least as powerful as parallax since they have the same power source. Eternity has been defeated by the IG and had been put into a coma somehow by the mechenations of the mages and he does have a personality when korvac scanned the universe and saw eternity he said he was arrogent and even if he would sense korvac he wouldnt care in the trial of adam warlock he had a personality or else he wouldnt be greedy for the gems and the LT had the emotion of doubt meaning he had a personality kyle rayner would defeat eternity with relative ease with his amount of power and since he can be everywere at once he might be able to see through the illusion and the illusions dont last forever anyway.

hmmmmmm, a progeny of a cosmic cube vs a guy who wields the collective willpower of every sentient being in the universe.hhhhhmmmmmmm I SAY!

NO SERIOUSLY HMMMM!

Originally posted by Mider
if parallax could rewrite the universe and fight spectre i put him on a higher petestole then eternity and i do believe he is more powerful and i do believe ion is more powerful or at least as powerful as parallax since they have the same power source.
LOL

Eternity is the sum total of existence in the MU. It embodies the principal of life. That humanoid black being you see is Eternity's manifestation of itself to us. It is but a mere blink of it's existence. It's less than a fragment of it's totality. If Eternity were to encounter these Marvel guys in his all, they would literally go insane. They wouldnt be able to comprehend his being. He is beyond comprehension. He and LT are probably the ultimate jobbers. Put it this way, Eternity at will should make light work of ANY bearer of the IG. He should be able to wish the IG itself out of existence. His entirety is beyond it. Eternity=Pheonix Force and PF>Parallax. Heck, Eternity should be beyond the bounds of Spectre.

Eternity>PF (without universe and thus beings there is no collective psyche) otherwise agreed

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
He should be able to wish the IG itself out of existence.

Wouldn't go this far. The Infinity Gems are leftovers of The One Who Once Was and he existed before anything in the Marvel Universe (he killed himself because there was no one else around). The gems are likely as old, if not older, than Eternity.

Yeah I was just being generous...it seems everyone here believes the PF is on par with Eternity. I say she's just below it.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
LOL

Eternity is the sum total of existence in the MU. It embodies the principal of life. That humanoid black being you see is Eternity's manifestation of itself to us. It is but a mere blink of it's existence. It's less than a fragment of it's totality. If Eternity were to encounter these Marvel guys in his all, they would literally go insane. They wouldnt be able to comprehend his being. He is beyond comprehension. He and LT are probably the ultimate jobbers. Put it this way, Eternity at will should make light work of ANY bearer of the IG. He should be able to wish the IG itself out of existence. His entirety is beyond it. Eternity=Pheonix Force and PF>Parallax. Heck, Eternity should be beyond the bounds of Spectre. Eternity should be beyond the physical embodiment of god?

Originally posted by Juntai
Eternity should be beyond the physical embodiment of god?

keyword being physical...

and i thought it was 'god's anger' or something along those lines.

unless Spectre can create and re-create the entire multiverse on a whim, Eternity is beyond him.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
keyword being physical...

and i thought it was 'god's anger' or something along those lines.

unless Spectre can create and re-create the entire multiverse on a whim, Eternity is beyond him. He's done it a dozen times or so on panel.

And no, Eternity isn't beyond him.

Originally posted by Juntai
He's done it a dozen times or so on panel.

And no, Eternity isn't beyond him.

evidence?

if he's on par with LT then you're right.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
evidence? Crisis on Infinite Earths? Zero Hour? Emperor Joker? Just to name a few.
Go read one of the Spectre threads I've hopped into.

Spectre recreated the universe not the multiverse. By resetting the universe, the universe is still maintained, just changed superficially. all that means is that Spectre's maximum feat is changing what Eternity looks like. What would he do if Eternity commits suicide and then aks his sister to bring him back

Originally posted by Juntai
Crisis on Infinite Earths? Zero Hour? Emperor Joker? Just to name a few.

all I see are words. i want physical evidence. i just want to see Spectre creating and re-creating universes on a whim.

Originally posted by Pepito
Spectre recreated the universe not the multiverse. By resetting the universe, the universe is still maintained, just changed superficially. all that means is that Spectre's maximum feat is changing what Eternity looks like. What would he do if Eternity commits suicide and then aks his sister to bring him back Not neccisarily, in COIE, he destroyed it and rebuilt it. Same in Zero Hour, Parallax destroyed it, and he rebuilt it through Damage.

Originally posted by Pepito
Spectre recreated the universe not the multiverse. By resetting the universe, the universe is still maintained, just changed superficially. all that means is that Spectre's maximum feat is changing what Eternity looks like. What would he do if Eternity commits suicide and then aks his sister to bring him back

ok thanks for clarifying that.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
all I see are words. i want physical evidence. i just want to see Spectre creating and re-creating universes on a whim. -shrugs- Read a DC book involving Spectre. Hell, Hal did it a few different times in his short 27 issues alone.

Essentially there must have been some vestige of the universe for him to create anything. Him asking his master to create it is another thing

Originally posted by Juntai
-shrugs- Read a DC book .

no

i guess its all speculation then

Originally posted by Pepito
Essentially there must have been some vestige of the universe for him to create anything. Him asking his master to create it is another thing

basically.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
no

i guess its all speculation then

Originally posted by Pepito
Essentially there must have been some vestige of the universe for him to create anything. Him asking his master to create it is another thing In the last issue of Spectre volume 4, he was wielding all of creation in his hands, and controlling it's ebb and flow, and had billions of aspects of himself leading souls to Heaven and fixing universes. Spectre is definately beyond Eternity.

Eternity even got captured by Krona and had trouble with Dormammu.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
no

i guess its all speculation then Yep, I guess so. I'm just making it up.

Originally posted by Juntai
Eternity even got captured by Krona and had trouble with Dormammu.

Like I said, its only the physical embodiment of Eternity that ever jobs to these guys. Eternity IS. It cannot, not be..unless another Enternity takes its place

Originally posted by Juntai
Yep, I guess so. I'm just making it up.

I know

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Like I said, its only the physical embodiment of Eternity that ever jobs to these guys. Eternity IS. It cannot, not be..unless another Enternity takes its place Spectre is The Logoz, and is older than the multiverse. It's a piece of God.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
I know
Only besides the fact that most DC readers on the forum own at least one of those books and can verify. Hell the guy you were agreeing with a minute ago acknowledged Spectre's creating/recreating the universe/multiverse.

Spectre can be beaten by Wolverine- Wolverine89898 said so, so it must be true

Originally posted by Pepito
Spectre can be beaten by Wolverine- Wolverine89898 said so, so it must be true

Originally posted by Juntai


LOL

Nah seriously, Spectre is supposedly an analogue of LT so I wouldnt doubt him being above Eternity. But my argument was wether Parallax was above E or not. Which he definately isnt.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
LOL

Nah seriously, Spectre is supposedly an analogue of LT so I wouldnt doubt him being above Eternity. But my argument was wether Parallax was above E or not. Which he definately isnt. Dunno its hard to guage, but Parallax/Hal certainly destroyed the entire DCU and wasn't put down until Spectre battled him and used all his energy up.

Oh, and to get back on track
Assuming current ION is half as strong as the original time Kyle became ION, then he's >>>> SOW.

Originally posted by Juntai

Only besides the fact that most DC readers on the forum own at least one of those books and can verify. Hell the guy you were agreeing with a minute ago acknowledged Spectre's creating/recreating the universe/multiverse.

he never said anything about multiverse. stop manipulating peoples arguments.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
he never said anything about multiverse. stop manipulating peoples arguments. Quit being stupid, the point was in the acknowledgement that he did the feats I claimed. I wasn't quoting him or putting words in his mouth. I thought this was over already.

Originally posted by Juntai
Quit being stupid, the point was in the acknowledgement that he did the feats I claimed. I wasn't quoting him or putting words in his mouth. I thought this was over already.

No quit being a petty little *****. He cleary said NOT the multiverse. K sweetheart?

Originally posted by Pepito
Spectre recreated the universe not the multiverse. By resetting the universe, the universe is still maintained, just changed superficially. all that means is that Spectre's maximum feat is changing what Eternity looks like. What would he do if Eternity commits suicide and then aks his sister to bring him back

Now shut up.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
No quit being a petty little *****. He cleary said NOT the multiverse. K sweetheart?



Now shut up. He's failing to acknowledge that DC was still a hypertime multiverse, splitting divergent possibilities from the prime universe, just like Marvel. That's not my bad. However, as stated, quit being stupid, the point was in the acknolwedgement that Spectre did the feats. Curse all you'd like, make an ass of yourself, but that doesn't change anything as far as the comics go.

Originally posted by Juntai
He's failing to acknowledge that DC was still a hypertime multiverse, splitting divergent possibilities from the prime universe, just like Marvel. That's not my bad. However, as stated, quit being stupid, the point was in the acknolwedgement that Spectre did the feats. Curse all you'd like, make an ass of yourself, but that doesn't change anything as far as the comics go.

On the contrary, he was actually refuting mentioned points and pointing out how Spectre is beneath Eternity. Its not that big of a deal. Just quit being a ***** about it. k?

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
On the contrary, he was actually refuting mentioned points and pointing out how Spectre is beneath Eternity. Its not that big of a deal. Just quit being a ***** about it. k? Spectre's not beneath Eternity though. His feats in and out of combat prove greater. Quit thriving off of speculation of presumed power or importance.

I wasn't being a dick about it, I thought the conversation was over before you purposely decided to drag me back into it. The point was that he acknowledged Spectre's feats, regardless of his personal interpretation. That's what I was trying to get through to you. Had I quoted him and misquoted or added words to what he said, then I could see your ire, but in this case.... it's just stupid.

Originally posted by Juntai
Spectre's not beneath Eternity though. His feats in and out of combat prove greater. Quit thriving off of speculation of presumed power or importance.

Way to miss the ****ing point. Scroll up to where I said Spectre who is supposedly on par with LT is above E. And it isnt presumption, Eternity's powers are written in stone.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Way to miss the ****ing point. Scroll up to where I said Spectre who is supposedly on par with LT is above Spectre. And it isnt presumption, Eternity's powers are written in stone. Might want to check your wording.


However written in stone it may be, Spectre is a piece of god, and that is something Eternity could never mess with. The Logoz exists even without the universe/multiverse. Even Eternity's presumed importance regardless of crappy on panel portrayals is outclassed by those facts.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Way to miss the ****ing point. Scroll up to where I said Spectre who is supposedly on par with LT is above E. And it isnt presumption, Eternity's powers are written in stone. OK, that's a little better.

Originally posted by Juntai
Might want to check your wording.


However written in stone it may be, Spectre is a piece of god, and that is something Eternity could never mess with. The Logoz exists even without the universe/multiverse. Even Eternity's presumed importance regardless of crappy on panel portrayals is outclassed by those facts.

Almost every cosmic character is jobbed, it's practically their hobby. Jobbing for characters as enigmatic and beyond as Eternity (who need Anthropomorpho to make bodies for them to manifest themselves) should be as legitimate as in actual comics because there has never been the Eternity Unlimited comic. He could have any reason to not use his full power in the comics but marvel ' mythology' states he is the universe so he must logically be just as powerful as the contents of the universe. Often there is a much purer representation in descritpions of characters than in comics where writers and the necessities for plotting vary. Eternity, as the universe/multiverse, is just as much a crony of marvel TOAA as Spectre is of dc god. Plus Eternity's stats on basically every profiler are higher than Spectre's.

ps in the Korvac saga in what if? When Korvac annihilates a universe and Tribunal seals it off, a part of Eternity remains even when he, for that universe, is erased.

Spectre has stats?

Mais Oui. http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/spectre.htm

Originally posted by Pepito
Almost every cosmic character is jobbed, it's practically their hobby. Jobbing for characters as enigmatic and beyond as Eternity (who need Anthropomorpho to make bodies for them to manifest themselves) should be as legitimate as in actual comics because there has never been the Eternity Unlimited comic. He could have any reason to not use his full power in the comics but marvel ' mythology' states he is the universe so he must logically be just as powerful as the contents of the universe. Often there is a much purer representation in descritpions of characters than in comics where writers and the necessities for plotting vary. Eternity, as the universe/multiverse, is just as much a crony of marvel TOAA as Spectre is of dc god. Plus Eternity's stats on basically every profiler are higher than Spectre's.

ps in the Korvac saga in what if? When Korvac annihilates a universe and Tribunal seals it off, a part of Eternity remains even when he, for that universe, is erased. Tribunal is not Spectre.
DC's match for Eternity is Kismet, who is also below Spectre.
Profilers don't matter, Spectre's feats speak for themselves while Eternity gets beat up by people within the universe/multiverse, and while Eternity is the multiverse/universe... The Logoz will exist before and after it.

How?

Originally posted by Pepito
How? How what?

How does Spectre, a part of Logoz only needed for matters in the multiverse, remain when Eternity, representation of whole universe (a part of TOAA in other words) and needed to exist in some dormant way to make a new universe, does not?

Originally posted by Pepito
How does Spectre, a part of Logoz only needed for matters in the multiverse, remain when Eternity, representation of whole universe (a part of TOAA in other words) and needed to exist in some dormant way to make a new universe, does not? Most of what you just said is just unsupported speculation, so there's no real way of answering.

We know that Spectre is The Logoz and is the hand of god. We know that Logoz existed before creation of the multiverse, as we know Spectre can hold all of his creation in his hands. We know that God exists without creation, but not the other way around.

for your info there is more then one eternity each universe has an eternity he isnt the sum of the multiverse just one universe, eternity has died more then once had has even been made comatose by korvac, and his power is below the infinity gems if his powers were above the IG why would he want them? and why would Warlock treat him like such a nobody with the IG he has been trapped in the nightmare dimension as well as been stalemated for a short time by dormammu, spectre has recreated the multiverse many times this is a good speculation since he had to recreate the multiverse when the anti-monitor was destroying the DCU it was spectre who fixed everything same thing as in zero hour and after parallax messed with the universe, and phoenix is greater then LT its already been proven in comics that Phoenix creates the universe and is at the base of the nexus of all reality of the omniverse he was shown to create the universe and replace all the abstracts and be higher then LT who said that Phoenix could do this pepito........why ETERNITY HIMSELF!

eternity has been treated like nobody by people in himself as well as people like the infinites and krona

Originally posted by Mider
eternity has been treated like nobody by people in himself as well as people like the infinites and krona

Eternity Proper is all universal energy throughout multiverse (each Eternity is part of a whole, this main Eternity is what recreated Galactus in The End) and even a single Eternity would not have been beaten by Dormammu without his own reasons as all the energy Dormammu was using was part of single Eternity. Due to conservation of everything you can't actually damgae Eternity, just change part of him and single Eternity is anything in the universe plus everything else. Dormammu is made out of Eternity, attacks with Eternity and exists within Eternity. Eternity cannot be harmed except by erasing a universe with Korvac in what if? level power (he'd abosrbed basically all of the universe) and technically he was only shuffling the energy about.

it doesnt matter his powers are not on par with Ion he can probably exist outside reality for all you know and so can Spectre probably

Originally posted by Mider
it doesnt matter his powers are not on par with Ion he can probably exist outside reality for all you know and so can Spectre probably

Now you're just whining - nothing exists outisde existence, that's why it's called existence

Originally posted by Pepito
Now you're just whining - nothing exists outisde existence, that's why it's called existence God exists outside of 'creation', as does the realms of Heaven of Hell.

Originally posted by Pepito
Now you're just whining - nothing exists outisde existence, that's why it's called existence
No but they can exist outside a certain level of creation.

Originally posted by The Ion
No but they can exist outside a certain level of creation. True.

Yes and Eternity is all levels of creation. At least in marvel he is.

But it is still an existence. Have a look the dictionary!!!!

there are beings who can live with out eternity the beyonders are some beings.

Originally posted by Diunic
But it is still an existence. Have a look the dictionary!!!!
I don't think Juntai or I argued against that.

Originally posted by Pepito
Yes and Eternity is all levels of creation. At least in marvel he is.
What would you call it in Lucifer #68 when Yahweh was holding 'creation' in his hands?

Originally posted by Pepito
Eternity Proper is all universal energy throughout multiverse (each Eternity is part of a whole, this main Eternity is what recreated Galactus in The End) and even a single Eternity would not have been beaten by Dormammu without his own reasons as all the energy Dormammu was using was part of single Eternity. Due to conservation of everything you can't actually damgae Eternity, just change part of him and single Eternity is anything in the universe plus everything else. Dormammu is made out of Eternity, attacks with Eternity and exists within Eternity. Eternity cannot be harmed except by erasing a universe with Korvac in what if? level power (he'd abosrbed basically all of the universe) and technically he was only shuffling the energy about.

Exactly!

how can dormammu be part of eternity when his dimension is seperate from 616 do you have any proof of all the stuff your saying and thats not a very viable argument that eternity lost because he wanted to or had reasons i guess he loses to krona, the IG, THOTU, etc etc cause he had a bad day? even korvac killed eternity yes he did kill an eternity there wasnt anything left nothing and being able to manipulate eternity by my standars makes you supirior to him since you can manipulate him as seen in captian marvel when enthrophy killed eternity there are beings who can servive outside of eternity just like captian marvel did or enthrophy or beings like ion i would think and for sure beings like the spectre.

Originally posted by Mider
how can dormammu be part of eternity when his dimension is seperate from 616 do you have any proof of all the stuff your saying and thats not a very viable argument that eternity lost because he wanted to or had reasons i guess he loses to krona, the IG, THOTU, etc etc cause he had a bad day? even korvac killed eternity yes he did kill an eternity there wasnt anything left nothing and being able to manipulate eternity by my standars makes you supirior to him since you can manipulate him as seen in captian marvel when enthrophy killed eternity there are beings who can servive outside of eternity just like captian marvel did or enthrophy or beings like ion i would think and for sure beings like the spectre.

now say that again, in english.

read slower.

Originally posted by Mider
read slower.

punctuations are your friend.

Originally posted by Mider
there are beings who can live with out eternity the beyonders are some beings.

Beyonders like TOAA represent writers and presumably have their won Eternity or are their own Eternity.

ANYBODY GOT SOME INTEL ON SHAPER?
Not familiar with him but would he sounds interesting.

Shaper is the most powerful of the cube beings (he's been around the longest and practised the most). He has perfect illusion creating powers (fools whole of alien worlds and Earth including Skrull tech, Dr Strange, Shi'ar tech, panthea and Molecule Man, , cosmic level psionic and energy powers, huge endurance (c5000 on classicmarvel) and strength and looks like a skrull grafted to a tank.

Originally posted by Pepito
Shaper is the most powerful of the cube beings (he's been around the longest and practised the most). He has perfect illusion creating powers (fools whole of alien worlds and Earth including Skrull tech, Dr Strange, Shi'ar tech, panthea and Molecule Man, , cosmic level psionic and energy powers, huge endurance (c5000 on classicmarvel) and strength and looks like a skrull grafted to a tank.

Well said.

But the funny thing is he can build worlds, but can build himself a ****ing decent pair of legs.

........

Shaper has been beaten by the Hulk a few times

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
No Im not..just giving you the scope of his powers...he is onimpotent on a universal scale almost. He should be on the level of a minor Celestial.

Shaper of Worlds is neither more powerful than Kubik or the false Beyonder, and he's global not universal, not even almost.

So Ion takes this

Originally posted by Pepito
Shaper is the most powerful of the cube beings (he's been around the longest and practised the most). He has perfect illusion creating powers (fools whole of alien worlds and Earth including Skrull tech, Dr Strange, Shi'ar tech, panthea and Molecule Man, , cosmic level psionic and energy powers, huge endurance (c5000 on classicmarvel) and strength and looks like a skrull grafted to a tank.

I don't know where you got that from, but Shaper is actually the weakest of the cubes, because his imagination is limited due to the fact that a cube's persona is reflective of it's wielder, unfortunately Skrulls are more barberic and reptilian than other races, which is why the Shaper is the brute of Cosmic Cubes.

Kubik is the mightiest cube along with Kosmos

hey godscribe i will send u hunter prey tomorrow just because im not home im somewhere else

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Shaper has been beaten by the Hulk a few times
Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't know where you got that from, but Shaper is actually the weakest of the cubes, because his imagination is limited due to the fact that a cube's persona is reflective of it's wielder, unfortunately Skrulls are more barberic and reptilian than other races, which is why the Shaper is the brute of Cosmic Cubes.

Kubik is the mightiest cube along with Kosmos
Wish you guys had mentioned this on Page 1.

i dont think shaper can fool Ion since ion can be at one with everything and thus probably be at once with the shaper himself he'd know what is happening he'd be outside the illusion and within at the same time since he is suppose to be nigh omnipresent.

shaper ftw

shaper pwns

Originally posted by Madvillain
shaper pwns

Didn't the Beyonders make the Cosmic Cubes?

yes