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Roughrider
Ultimate Iron Man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man#Ultimate_Iron_Man

The Ray: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_%28comics%29

Thialfi: http://www.immortalthor.net/bio-thialfi.html

Horus: http://www.immortalthor.net/bio-horus.html

stormfront13
mimic- http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/chara...sp?fldAuto=1758

aurora- http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/chara...sp?fldAuto=1490

vindicator- http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/chara...sp?fldAuto=1113

phantazia- http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetM...sp?UniqueId=330

1 hour of standard prep.

Location: The steryotypical dungeon. Chains, hooks, archaic instruments of torture, etc. It's a fairly large complex, with 2 separate rooms, each about 1000'x500' rectangles. They are connected by only three short hallways. Teams start as far away from each other as possible, one team is all the way in back of one room, and vice versa for the other.

10-20 bet that Sf makes a reference to storm at some point in his argument.....

no bet....

Busy day today - I'll chime in with my strategy ideas later.

Originally posted by Scoobless
no bet....

Any confirmation on my acceptance into Kmc authority ?

He can also convert his body completely into light energy. No physical harm can come to him in this form (as demonstrated when Lobo punched through his skull, in The Ray vol 2 #8). This process can also be used to heal damage that his physical form has already sustained (seen in the story "Ray Gets Shot In The Head".

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_%28comics%29"

^^came from wiki. isn't this above the killability factor. and while i'm here, why is it okay for horus to paralyze people, but when phantazia might have been able to do it everyone was against it?

prep- in dungeons, there's usually something like an axe, or a sword or something like that. well aurora takes it and practices using it for a half an hour. after that they all sit down and discuss their powers some more, and battle strategies, so now mimic is more familiar with phantazia's and aurora's powers. right before prep ends, vindicator, mimic, and phantazia put up a force-field.

Originally posted by grey fox
10-20 bet that Sf makes a reference to storm at some point in his argument.....


good bet because i probably will

battle strategy- okay, aurora has the sword and with her superhuman reaction time, mach speeds, and reflexes, she reacts first and cuts Thialfi, i mean he was easily killed by an asgardian wolf. that takes him out. mimic also has superhuman reaction time, speed, and reflexes, and he doesn't need a weapon because he has wolverines claws. he reacts first and goes after iron-man. can iron-man really take above class 50 punches with wolverines claws, around 500 times in a second for long? the chances are no. now add that with the combined efforts of mimic and phantazia slowly weakening his armor, and it would only take time for him to go down. all this is going down while vindicator is against horus and aurora is holding off the ray. vindicator creates a volcano literally around horus, and continues to pummel him with class 85 punches, and combine her speed which she can easily reach mach speeds, and she'll be very hard to hit. your bio on horus states that he is only class 75(vindicator is stronger) emits solar energy(vindicator can absorb), and can paralyze with his left eye, all vindicator has to do is cover his face or eye with hardened lava or earth. with the ray, any blinding light he try's, won't work because aurora is immune to those types of attacks. all she has to do is keep him occupied by hitting 1,000 times in a second, shooting lightning, and avoiding his blasts. there's also that wind funnel attack she could use. after vindicator is done she assists aurora, so she basically just puts him in a cage if hardened lava, and creates a wall of lava all around him, taking him out., then if mimic and phantazia aren't done with iron-man, they all just gang up on him and take him out.

^^I've worked on my typing, has it gotten any better. also who are the judges for this round?

Originally posted by stormfront13
battle strategy- okay, aurora has the sword and with her superhuman reaction time, mach speeds, and reflexes, she reacts first and cuts Thialfi, i mean he was easily killed by an asgardian wolf. that takes him out. mimic also has superhuman reaction time, speed, and reflexes, and he doesn't need a weapon because he has wolverines claws. he reacts first and goes after iron-man. can iron-man really take above class 50 punches with wolverines claws, around 500 times in a second for long? the chances are no. now add that with the combined efforts of mimic and phantazia slowly weakening his armor, and it would only take time for him to go down. all this is going down while vindicator is against horus and aurora is holding off the ray. vindicator creates a volcano literally around horus, and continues to pummel him with class 85 punches, and combine her speed which she can easily reach mach speeds, and she'll be very hard to hit. your bio on horus states that he is only class 75(vindicator is stronger) emits solar energy(vindicator can absorb), and can paralyze with his left eye, all vindicator has to do is cover his face or eye with hardened lava or earth. with the ray, any blinding light he try's, won't work because aurora is immune to those types of attacks. all she has to do is keep him occupied by hitting 1,000 times in a second, shooting lightning, and avoiding his blasts. there's also that wind funnel attack she could use. after vindicator is done she assists aurora, so she basically just puts him in a cage if hardened lava, and creates a wall of lava all around him, taking him out., then if mimic and phantazia aren't done with iron-man, they all just gang up on him and take him out.

^^I've worked on my typing, has it gotten any better. also who are the judges for this round?

I can read it , now make it paragraphs every fourth-fith sentence or so and everything should be peachy .....

Originally posted by grey fox
I can read it , now make it paragraphs every fourth-fith sentence or so and everything should be peachy .....

i knew i forgot somethingfrusty...thanks for telling me

Yeah space it up with paragraphs, it's very hard to read.

oh and roughrder, your bio also states that the ray was easily beaten by batman.

Eh? this probally was talked about already but don't remember.

Ray's bio:
"Ray can absorb, store and process light and use the energy to fly, create bursts of light and solid light constructs.

He can also convert his body completely into light energy. No physical harm can come to him in this form (as demonstrated when Lobo punched through his skull, in The Ray vol 2 #8). This process can also be used to heal damage that his physical form has already sustained (seen in the story "Ray Gets Shot In The Head"."

I thought stuff like that was banned? he's far from unbeatable so don't know it it makes a difference.

Originally posted by stormfront13
He can also convert his body completely into light energy. No physical harm can come to him in this form (as demonstrated when Lobo punched through his skull, in The Ray vol 2 #8). This process can also be used to heal damage that his physical form has already sustained (seen in the story "Ray Gets Shot In The Head".

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_%28comics%29"

^^came from wiki. isn't this above the killability factor. and while i'm here, why is it okay for horus to paralyze people, but when phantazia might have been able to do it everyone was against it?

I'm fairly sure Ray can't actually do that here. If he tries, he dies, basically. Don't worry about it.

Horus stuns people. Phantazia's thing was that she disrupts powers. Small difference, though both are still legal... for now.

Oh, and "normal" prep takes place outside the arena. So Aurora wouldn't be able to pick up a sword during prep, because she isn't in the dungeon yet. Once she's there, it's fine, but people are assumed to not know where the fight will take place, unless specified at the start of the thread.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Horus stuns people. Phantazia's thing was that she disrupts powers. Small difference, though both are still legal... for now.

no, when people were questioning her ability to also stun people, everyone said she should be banned. so why did everyone say phantazia should be banned, and not horus. also, if i find a scan of phantazia stunning someone can it be used as legal. i am almost positive that she has never done anything like this, but still if i find it can i use it?

If we were allowed to paralyze people longer , you guys would know about it , i assure you of that....mostly because i'd be protesting for Galactus's cat to be in my team again....

Originally posted by stormfront13
no, when people were questioning her ability to also stun people, everyone said she should be banned. so why did everyone say phantazia should be banned, and not horus. also, if i find a scan of phantazia stunning someone can it be used as legal. i am almost positive that she has never done anything like this, but still if i find it can i use it?

The bio you gave said that Phantazia disrupts peoples' powers. You said that it is a very mild, very random effect, and so she was allowed. Horus simply stuns people. Their powers aren't affected in the slightest, and THAT is the difference. Both are allowed, stunning has never been illegal.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Oh, and "normal" prep takes place outside the arena. So Aurora wouldn't be able to pick up a sword during prep, because she isn't in the dungeon yet. Once she's there, it's fine, but people are assumed to not know where the fight will take place, unless specified at the start of the thread.

then mimic takes him out immediately with his superhuman reaction time, mach speeds, and superhuman reflexes. he has claws which are just as good as a sword, but combine his speed with his strength and clews, and he is definitely taken out at the very start of the fight. if he was killed by a wolf, mimic will do worse.

Originally posted by Dizzle
The bio you gave said that Phantazia disrupts peoples' powers. You said that it is a very mild, very random effect, and so she was allowed. Horus simply stuns people. Their powers aren't affected in the slightest, and THAT is the difference. Both are allowed, stunning has never been illegal.

in some of phantazias bios it also states that she can stun people as well, so my question was that if horus is allowed to do it, then if i find a scan of phantazia doing it as well, then could i use it. you just answered that stunning is legal, so i could use it if i find it.

Originally posted by grey fox
If we were allowed to paralyze people longer , you guys would know about it , i assure you of that....mostly because i'd be protesting for Galactus's cat to be in my team again....

well if it helps, i would support the cat. worse picks are already in this.

okay, here are the scans.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/AlphaFlightv205-Mesmerized02-10.jpg

^^see that sunfire is trapped in the hard lava, well i'll do the same thing to horus, and just keep dumping lava on him, and if he starts to break out, then i'll just stick him in that coccoon again.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/AlphaFlightv201-Horoscope-31.jpg

^^using a lava gyser, which can be usd against all of your teammates at the same time. these attacks could do major damage.

i got to go, i'll be back to post more later

and why not, i'll have aurora kick ray in the face, WICKED hard. hey...it worked very well for scarletspider. he had people voting for him with that stragety.

Page 2 already? Glad I'm not judging this fight. SF's threads always end up pretty epic. Good luck guys.

Pinned.

SF word of advice, try to make your arguements more structured. There all over the place you do make some good points but focus them more.

rider hasn't even started and sf has over a dozen posts! and can we please not get into last round. who cares about last round, worry about this one.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Page 2 already? Glad I'm not judging this fight. SF's threads always end up pretty epic. Good luck guys.

Pinned.

yeah, anyone remember my fight with nataku in the herald tourney? it was like 29 or 30 pages or something like that. it was insane, and the vote count ended up being like 7 to 8 or something like that. he was one ahead of me and gave up for some reason, though i can't remember why. i wish he wouldn't have.



will do, i just get excited sometimes and like to post a lot.

okay, i got a bit to say about ultimate iron-man.

1)he isn't that great, he is kinda weak if you actually think about it

2)its flat out stated that he needs a crew of hundreds just to keep the suit running between missions

3)he didn't do very good against ultimate hulk

4)lightning from Thor messed him up...which he means he is vulnerable to both phantazia and mimic shutting him down or weakening him

5)ultimate Thor shattered several bones the first time they met

6)hes no soldier, or general, or warrior, and he is definitely NOT a strategist

also, here are some impressive pics of vindicator.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlightv202-05i.jpg

^^here vin is disintegrating/melting steel bars before they hit mac. she literally did this in a second. with an attack like this, she could definitely take either horus or the ray.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/AlphaFlightv201-Horoscope-36.jpg

^^here she is vaporizing a being made of water, and that being is partially INSIDE of mac, so imagine the amount of heat. that's very powerful.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/AlphaFlightv201-Horoscope-35.jpg

^^here she is using a steam attack, and it actually hurts sasquatch, who has more durability than some people on your team.

in that pic i posted of her vaporizing the being made of water, well the mac-clone had a force-field on. so this proves that vindicator is able to affect people inside their force-field. so even if the ray, or stark have a force-field on, they can't cope with vins power. she is also able to suffocate people with her steam attack.

I have one busy day, and Stormfront has gone post crazy, as usual. I will check back in tommorow with my thoughts.

Originally posted by stormfront13
4)lightning from Thor messed him up...which he means he is vulnerable to both phantazia and mimic shutting him down or weakening him

5)ultimate Thor shattered several bones the first time they met

when did those things happen?

Originally posted by Scoobless
when did those things happen?

well i don't know when the lightning happened, but yeah as i said thor messed him up when they first met, or maybe it was the hulk. it was either thor or hulk, though i am almost positive that it was thor. and don't worry i didn't get them off of issue summaries.

lol... the bone breaking thing was definitely the Hulk

Originally posted by Scoobless
lol... the bone breaking thing was definitely the Hulk

thanks for correcting me, i honestly couldn't remember which one

$%#&. Those links to Stormfront's characters don't work. I had to look them all up individualy, to see where they are at now. And still found nothing on Phantazia. This the one from the Supreme Soviets, the illusion caster? ( That's Fantasia.)
About Exiles Mimic - I'm not worried that much, becuase he can only absorb mutant powers, and no mutants are on my team. But what permanent powers does he have, at a lesser rate?
If he has Wolverine's claws, they must be the bone claws, because the admantium ones cannot be simply copied. What else?

And say Dizzle, what is the ceiling height of these rooms? And these three hallways; they sit just side by side, leading into the other room? Like bachelor's 1,2 & 3 doors?

Originally posted by roughrider
$%#&. Those links to Stormfront's characters don't work. I had to look them all up individualy, to see where they are at now. And still found nothing on Phantazia. This the one from the Supreme Soviets, the illusion caster? ( That's Fantasia.)
About Exiles Mimic - I'm not worried that much, becuase he can only absorb mutant powers, and no mutants are on my team. But what permanent powers does he have, at a lesser rate?
If he has Wolverine's claws, they must be the bone claws, because the admantium ones cannot be simply copied. What else?

no, it's PHANTAZIA from the brotherhood, toads brotherhood. the one that got offered to be an acolyte but rejected. she was offered because magneto thought she was very powerful, and had a lot of potential. i don't know why i said that, but i always thought it was interesting. i have no clue on the bone claw issue, his claws are always drawn as metal. i can post scans of his claws being metal if you like. and mimic can absorb superhuman powers as well. explain how he absorbed hulk, deadpool, those types of people. right now, mimic has the combined powers of aurora, wolverine, colossus, cyclops, and phantazia. you should be worried about mimic. he moves at mach speeds, is above class 50, has optic blasts that have hurt both colossus and sasquatch, has adamantium? claws, generates force-fields, has a healing factor, generates electricity, and is able to shut down machinery and disrupt superhuman powers as well as stun people. and i know I'm forgetting stuff, but that's the basics.

i would also like to point out that my team is full of leaders and stragetists. everyone on my team has lead a team at one point, and is a good stragetist and team player. this makes for good teamwork, and good battle plans. also my team's characters should have more expierence than yours, which leads to a better team.

Saw the pictures of Exiles Mimic on Wikipedia; the claws look metal, but it doesn't make sense that they would be. I would accept they're bone, and not as strong as the real ones because of the 50% rule for him.
Thank you for name clarification on Phantazia, but still can't find a bio for her. Don't make me wade through the draft threads to find out, again.

And my team has Asgardian and Egyptian immortals. They have LOTS of experience in leadership and combat strategy.

More info on the weaponry of Ultimate Iron Man.

http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Ultimate_Iron_Man

Ah, crap. Stupid "copy shortcut".... That's my bad, I copied em pretty late on Friday...

And the hallways are evenly spaced across the rooms. Two are close to opposite walls, the third is right in the middle. The hallways are fairly normal sized, the dungeon rooms themselves are about 20 feet high.

Originally posted by roughrider
Saw the pictures of Exiles Mimic on Wikipedia; the claws look metal, but it doesn't make sense that they would be. I would accept they're bone, and not as strong as the real ones because of the 50% rule for him.
Thank you for name clarification on Phantazia, but still can't find a bio for her. Don't make me wade through the draft threads to find out, again.

Mimic's claws are only metal when he uses his Colossus powers (turns his bones to metal) ..... when he's not in Colossus mode they are bone

In Colossus mode? Hmm.

More weapon listings for Ultimate Iron Man.

1. ULTIMATE IRON MAN

Equipment:
IronTech Armor: Am protection vs. Physical and Energy, Rm protection vs. Acid, Un vs. Radiation and Electricity. Has the following powers stunts:
-Alter-Ego: Stats are changed as above
-Flight Computer: This onboard flight computer that grants Ex maneuverability, and also a +2 CS to any agility FEAT that involves maneuvers or turns.
-Targeting Computer: This computer grants +2 CS to agility to fire the suit's weapons systems.
-Communications Array: Send and receive signals anywhere in the world via Stark International satellites with Un ability
-Deflector Dish: Located on Iron Man's chest plate, this Deflector Dish emits a Mn rank personal Force Field
-Flight: Sh-Y airspeed
-Negative Light: Am Invisibility
-Chest Light: Ex illumination
-Power Boost: Iron Man is able to download a boost of strength up to Sh-Y rank for 2 minutes
Helmet: Gives Stark the following power stunts:
-Heads-Up Display: Informs Stark of the status of ammunition, laser charges and power level.
-360 Degree Vision: Stark is able to see everything around him
-Radar: Un with a maximum range of 250 miles in the open sky and 25 areas at ground level
-Thermal Imaging Scanners: Am Thermal Vision
Weapons System: Most of Stark's weapons are located on the back of his gauntlets. He currently has the following known weapons in his arsenal:
-Laser Cannons: In Energy, 10 areas
-Neural Scramblers: Un, Located in the gauntlets and released thru the palms is an intense neural shock that stops the higher brain functions for 1-10 rounds
-Force Bubble: Am Telekinesis, used to detain enemies
-Genetic Lock Shot: Am Energy, 10 areas, ignores target's powers (ex. Body Armor, Intangibility, etc.), requires 1 round for the Genetic Lock to work.

Talents: Bionics, Buisiness/Finances, Cybernetics, Electronics, Engineering, Weapon Design

Contacts: Ultimates, Stark International, S.H.I.E.L.D.

Bio-History:
Tony Stark, a genius all his life, amassed a small fortune appearing on game shows during his youth, and in 1981, he entered Harvard University as a freshman where he lived down the hall from Reed Richards, now known to the world as Mr. Fantastic. It was here he started to develop the Iron-Tech armor, but dropped out of Harvard while a junior to devote all his time to his new company, Stark Industries.

During a business trip to Guatemala, Stark and the other passengers were taken captive by the terrorist group known as 'The Red Devil' and held captive for eight months because they could not allow the selling of his weapons to their government. The terrorists forced him to create the weapons for them after killing his cousin, but he used them to immobilze the men and escape. Before his cousin died, Tony revealed to him that he was using it to slow down the the effects of a brain tumor which he had developed.

Tony finally finished developing the Iron-Tech Armor and went public as Iron Man. There had been many attempts to acquire the armor, but Stark refuses to sell, because despite all the good it could do, the evil it could do greatly outweights that. Stark is now a member of the nation's premiere superhero team, the Ultimates. On their first mission, they took down the Hulk, and now they are preparing for to stop an alien invasion in Micronesia

Originally posted by roughrider
And my team has Asgardian and Egyptian immortals. They have LOTS of experience in leadership and combat strategy.


that can't be proved. for all we know they could have been sitting around doing nothing. the proof is in what they have done in the comics, and how many they have appeared in.



i thought it had something to do with colossus, though i didn't have proof and wasn't positive so i didn't post about it. thanks for qualifying.



^^wasn't something like this banned? stopping brain functions sounds like an ohko



wasn't this why invisable woman and telekinesis were banned?


still, iron-man is very expierenced, and electricity messes him up, which means his armor can be shut down by either mimic or phantazia.

http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/Character2.asp?UniqueId=330


^^link to phantazia

okay, change of plans for my team. after mimic takes out thaifli, he goes after horus, while vindicator and phantazia take out iron-man, and aurora occupies the ray.

Neural scramblers ain't all that, as far as I know. Put it this way, if I'm going to ban them, Phantazia's probly gone too.

The forcefield is in a fixed area, he can't just randomly create them, and his control is nowhere near as good as IW's. TK was voted down, IW punched a hole through Galactus. Simply having a forcefield is legal.

Proof shown in appearences isn't the defining basis for arguments. That's why we had the limits on abilities; individual stats on paper count even more so. We have characters in this tournament who have never met, some with just a few appearences. If it's all about what someone did on the comics page, I would have drafted Spider Man and Squirrel Girl; their victories over Firelord and Thanos respectfully, I would use as proof they can beat anyone else here.
But, we're not doing that. It's what each character is capable of, without PIS.

Ultimate Iron Man's neural-scramblers are temporary stun moves, not OHKM. He used them first time he fought Ultimate Hulk, to buy him several seconds for his armour to discharge a massive blast to send Hulk away. I would hope, Phantazia's power works in similar fashion.

Quick note: If Mimic's claws can be metal when he's using Colossus power, that means at least they are not adamantium, just thin form of organic steel. And only 50% as durable as Colossus. They cannot cut everything, and could likely be bent by sufficent force.

Originally posted by roughrider
Quick note: If Mimic's claws can be metal when he's using Colossus power, that means at least they are not adamantium, just thin form of organic steel. And only 50% as durable as Colossus. They cannot cut everything, and could likely be bent by sufficent force.

well i would assume that Colossus's bones in armoured form are far stronger than his skin.... so they'll still be pretty hard to damage.... though much easier than even second grade adamantium... they have been broken before (by Hyperion... i think)

ult im can be damaged by electricity? how does his armor operate?

Isn't it also true Mimic can only use two of his five powers at a time?

Originally posted by leonidas
ult im can be damaged by electricity? how does his armor operate?

don't ask me, all i know is that his armor was severely messed after getting hit by a lightning bolt.



no, he can use all five at once if he wanted

Originally posted by roughrider
Isn't it also true Mimic can only use two of his five powers at a time?

I've never heard that before........ i don't think so ... he's using at least three powers in this scene:

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/171/exiles0682005oracledcp190dr.th.jpg

Originally posted by stormfront13
okay, change of plans for my team. after mimic takes out thaifli, he goes after horus, while vindicator and phantazia take out iron-man, and aurora occupies the ray.


okay, i didn't get a chance to finish this.


mimic VS horus: okay, mimic unleashes a blinding light to temporarily blind horus, so he won't know where to look to stun me, then mimic just basically rushes horus. cal is able to hit him 500 times in one second, now combine each punch with metal claws and above class 50 strength, and that is enough to do some serious damage. now mimic has superhuman reaction time, reflexes, and speed, it would be very easy to follow up with a bio blast which will stun horus and make his powers unreliable. now it'll be hard for horus to even throw one punch, and his strength would be decreased on top of that, so no damage will come to me when i also have a force-field up. if the bio blast didn't finish him off, i just follow up with a optic blast which has hurt people more durable than you. surely the optic blast would be enough to take you out after all the other attacks. now cal has mach speeds, so this wouldn't even take that long at all. for reference, cal= mimic

aurora VS the ray: now aurora is just occupying ray until mimic takes down horus. ray's flashes of light wouldn't do a thing to aurora because she is immune to those types of attacks. so ray can either shoot concussive blasts, or go at jean-marie hand to hand, which wouldn't be a good idea because she is faster, and has superhuman reflexes and reaction time. so basically all he has against her is his blasts which she would be able to dodge, or she can block those blasts with her own lightning or concussive basts. either way he only has a very slim chance to harm her. she also has that wind funnel/tornado stunt she can pull which with that the ray wouldn't be able to get a decent shot on her. now when mimic joins, which wouldn't be long, then it's all over for ray. for reference, jean-marie=aurora

so that only leaves ult iron-man

vindicator and phantazia VS iron-man: okay, tony is very inexperienced, and isn't at all a strategist. remember that pic i showed where vin was vaporizing a being of water that was inside a clone of mac? well he was also in a force-field, now what does this mean? that she can affect tony while he is in his force-field as well, and in that other pic she wasn't even straining, so imagine if she was actually out to hurt tony, yeah things wouldn't be too good for her. now phantazia is there to put another force-field around vin and turn them both invisible. a feat like this isn't hard at all for phantazia, because she was always multitasking with her powers. so while vin is there using the geyser to affect tony, phantazia is shutting down his suit which means that he has no more force-field and is very vulnerable. it is only a matter of time before he is out, and he won't be able to attack or hurt either heather or phantazia because they are invisible, and have force-fields around them. also, when phantazia turns someone invisible, that means they are invisible to everything...telepathy, electronics, and human senses.
for reference, heather + vin = vindicator, and tony=iron-man.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I've never heard that before........ i don't think so ... he's using at least three powers in this scene:

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/171/exiles0682005oracledcp190dr.th.jpg

ha ha ha, i was seriously just about to post that pic. yeah, it shows his armor deflecting bullets, and he has at least some sort of good aim because he hit deadpool while he was twisting in the air. though yeah it shows claws, armor, and optic blast.

So...this location is confining, but 20 foot ceilings in these long rooms give some freedom of movement. The thing about Aurora's speed, is that it's in the air she fast, not on the ground. Thialfi is fast on the ground, and has his winged horse corraled in a far corner, just in case. The horse is slower, but would give him some air manuvering if neccessary.

Thialfi takes the initiative, charging through one hallway with his sword and armour, looking to take down Phantazia and Aurora if possible; it's not likely even with his speed and surprise, and he's outnumbered. But at least he can distract and harrass. He's supported by blasts from IM, Horus and Ray from the other two hallways. Some of Stormfront's team may scatter, or rely on shields. My goal is to get them to come into my room, following a fleeting Thialfi.

If that happens and all four come in, they will find Ray in the air, Thialfi standing by with sword and shield, Horus standing ready with staff.

Ray does the first move, making a wall of solid light that batters Phantazia and Mimic to a far wall. A delaying tactic; as Thialfi charges Aurora who likely takes to the air; he just has to keep her busy for a moment. Horus goes blasting, right at Vindicator, who no doubt absorbs the blasts - but he's just a distraction. Hovering above the wall seperating the two rooms is Iron Man, cloaked to invisibility by his 'negative light' function. He apeears behind her, and hits her with his neural scramblers; her mind is violently sick for several seconds. Not able to react, Horus quickly kills her with his staff, and breaks her neck to be sure.
This is the key moment that has to happen fast, because I'm putting two characters against one, leaving others exposed. If successful, I've created a four-on-three.

Meanwhile, Phantazia has probably disrupted Ray's light wall and takes to the air. Horus takes to the air against Mimic, who though he can fly, is counting on his own blasting power and toughness to get him through it. He takes to the air, he gets shot down by Iron Man's 'genetic lock' beam; Mimic is unable to access his powers for some seconds. Horus blasts him quickly, and he's gone. Phantasia levels a blast to Iron Man, and he's down for a moment. But it's 3 against 2.
Ray joins in to double team Aurora with Thialfi, attacking her from the air. The two start racing each other around the ceiling. Thialfi leaves, and joins Horus against Phantazia. I think they have a good chance of not being disrupted by her, because their power sources are magical, not scientific or mutant. Horus forces her back to the ground, Thialfi stabs her with his sword. By this time, Iron Man is back in the game. 4 against 1 - Aurora.
She reverts to the pure light form to avoid harm ( like Ray), she's outta here. She may be fast enough to dodge another genetic lock shot by Iron Man, but she's just open to be blasted by Ray or Horus. And Thialfi just waits for her on the ground. It's a matter of time until she's down.

That's the victory for my team.

Originally posted by roughrider
So...this location is confining, but 20 foot ceilings in these long rooms give some freedom of movement. The thing about Aurora's speed, is that it's in the air she fast, not on the ground. Thialfi is fast on the ground, and has his winged horse corraled in a far corner, just in case. The horse is slower, but would give him some air manuvering if neccessary.



you honestly think a horse will prove that difficult? thaifli isn't doing anything in this fight, horse or not. he was killed by a simple wolf. mimic is able to locate your teams through the electro-magnetic fields, he is faster than thaifli, stronger, and has claws that would be sharper than that wolfs, he goes down first seeing as he isn't that durable, and the easiest to take. no questions asked, thaifli is just easy prey for my team.



thiafli's dead remember? he won't be doing anything to phantazia or aurora. tony's suit is shut down immediantly by phantazia. you have nothing to support that it wouldn't be. unless you can provide proof that he is immune to something like this, then his suit is shut down. I on the other hand have provided pictures where phantazia has shut down machinery, and in the past tony has been messed by a lightning bolt. he can't do anything.



correction, aurora and mimic do the first move as they react faster than ray, and immediantly take him out. thifali can't charge aurora because he's already lying on the floor dead. iron-man isn't hovering either, remember his armor has been shut down. even if he wasn't, phantazia and mimic would be able to sence him and be able to stop him. horus wouldn't be able to get through heathers force-field, which by the way never goes off during battle.



horus is no match against mimic. he doesn't have anything that harms mimic, you know that and i already explained it. iron-man isn't able to shoot any genetic lock beam because his suit is shut down, and even if it wasn't, phantazia could reverse the affects of the genetic lock beam.



once again, thiafli is dead and ray is already occupied with mimic and aurora. horus has been dealt with by mimic. thiafli couldn't stab her because of her force-field and invisability, and she can still stun/lightly paralyze both of them. and iron-man is never back in the game unless phantazia wants him to be.


^^ my team members react faster than yours, giving us an already big advantage. mimic and aurora both rush in and with vin and phantazia following to separate your team the fight goes like i planned it. aurora rushes ray, mimic immediantly kills thiafli, then goes after horus, while vin and phantazia rush in against tony. phantazia shuts down his suit, vin then covers him in lava. they then go and deal with the ray, who aurora has been occupying. ray can't stand up to the combined powers of heather, phantazia, and aurora. also, i already went over horus and mimic. i'll say it again. my team has the speed advantage which means that they are able to rush in and separate your team. there's nothing you can do to prevent this. with phantazia i also have an advantage over you because iron-man is useless because of her. there really is no way you could win. this basically seals the deal

http://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=exilesawa136jz.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=exilesawa141ku.jpg

^^see what that one optic blast does? yeah, would definitely be enough to take thiafli out, and mimic could do it on his way to horus, taking him out immediately it becomes 4 against 3 right away. now with phantazia shutting down tony's suit and having heather take him out, it immediately becomes 4 against 2. see, i have a speed, strength, numbers, power, and versatility advantage over you. with thiafli and iron-man on your team the fight is already in my favor.

http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=exilesgal152xx.jpg

^^this picture mimic's optic blast takes part in hurting galactus. yes, i know havok and cyke are aslo firing, but no one is straining themselves at all, and he's even talking while he's doing it. so if three medium level optic blasts can hurt galactus, then neither horus or ray can stand up to mimic.

You forget Thialfi can move on the ground between Mach 2 & 4, approiximately. Blasting him isn't as easy as you think.

You act like our fight already happened, and I'm just reacting to you. You have your strategy of attack, I have mine. Let the mods and the others vote on them.

Originally posted by roughrider
You forget Thialfi can move on the ground between Mach 2 & 4, approiximately. Blasting him isn't as easy as you think.

and mimic can move at mach 5, cutting him with metal claws would work just fine.

Originally posted by roughrider
You act like our fight already happened, and I'm just reacting to you. You have your strategy of attack, I have mine. Let the mods and the others vote on them.

the point of this is debating back and forth between eachother as to why we think our team should win and is superior. i'm just posting my reasons.

Not on the ground does he move at Mach 5.
And is he engaging Thialfi, or reacting to being blasted by my other characters? Thialfi has other targets he's engaging.

Originally posted by roughrider
Not on the ground does he move at Mach 5.
And is he engaging Thialfi, or reacting to being blasted by my other characters? Thialfi has other targets he's engaging.

nope, thiafli is already dead be he blasted by an optic blast or cut in half. mimic reacts quicker than thaifli, meaning he can move right away to get rid of him. and you do realize that there is room to fly in this, so i can actually move at mach 5, which is faster than the speed thiafli move. he was killed by a wolf, what could he do to mimic?

sf, you have a scan showing this 'wolf' that killed thialfi?

i'm also wondering how EITHER can maneuver so well in the small space they are fighting in? moving mach 5 in a 1000' room may be rather dangerous, not to mention disruptive to the rest of what's happening. and the sonic booms generated would also be stunning in the small area and may have an impact on the others.

Everything I read now about Aurora says she is only at Mach 1 now ( 770 miles per hour.) Where did the Mach 10 come into being, with Mimic reaching Mach 5 with his download?

Originally posted by roughrider
Everything I read now about Aurora says she is only at Mach 1 now ( 770 miles per hour.) Where did the Mach 10 come into being, with Mimic reaching Mach 5 with his download?

No, that is old news. She got her full potential back after she lost her powers completly, when in battle against Llan Northstar shared his "light" with her. It happened in like Alpha Flight #80 or something, plus she later got upgrades from Weapon X.

1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/allnewohotmuaz01406qj.jpg
2. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/allnewohotmuaz01416gc.jpg

Aurora's Wiki bio only vaguely refers to Sasquatch altering her powers.
Here, this says she's definitely was brought down to Mach 1.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/aurora.htm

Originally posted by roughrider
Aurora's Wiki bio only vaguely refers to Sasquatch altering her powers.
Here, this says she's definitely was brought down to Mach 1.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/aurora.htm

Yep, read the bio I posted. That operation happened early in the series, and then later in the series she regained her full speed. Even look at the stats she is back to 99% the speed of light.

BTW That's an outdated bio, she hasn't worn that outfit for years.

Originally posted by leonidas
sf, you have a scan showing this 'wolf' that killed thialfi?

i'm also wondering how EITHER can maneuver so well in the small space they are fighting in? moving mach 5 in a 1000' room may be rather dangerous, not to mention disruptive to the rest of what's happening. and the sonic booms generated would also be stunning in the small area and may have an impact on the others.

it wouldn't really be dangerous when they have the reaction time to compensate for their speed, besides all of my characters except aurora have force-fields to protect them from things like the wind and aurora is already protected from something like that because of the nature of her powers. it wold only be really dangerous to riders characters. besides the only time they are moving at their top speeds is when they are rushing all of riders characters to separate them and engage them in battle. and i don't have a scan of the whole wolf thing, ubt i know that's how thiafli went out. and it also states that's how he was killed on riders link he provided. it states that "The wolf immediately pounces on Thialfi killing him."

Originally posted by roughrider
Aurora's Wiki bio only vaguely refers to Sasquatch altering her powers.
Here, this says she's definitely was brought down to Mach 1.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/aurora.htm

that's 616 aurora, i have AOA aurora

Originally posted by leonidas
sf, you have a scan showing this 'wolf' that killed thialfi?

i'm also wondering how EITHER can maneuver so well in the small space they are fighting in? moving mach 5 in a 1000' room may be rather dangerous, not to mention disruptive to the rest of what's happening. and the sonic booms generated would also be stunning in the small area and may have an impact on the others.

It's less of a factor for me, because Thialfi can stay on the ground to ultilize his speed in different amounts. Aurora & Mimic have to be in the air to take advantage of their speed best.

Originally posted by roughrider
It's less of a factor for me, because Thialfi can stay on the ground to ultilize his speed in different amounts. Aurora & Mimic have to be in the air to take advantage of their speed best.

well obviously it's less of a factor for thiafli, because he is dead. unless you have anything that suggests that thia is even a match for mimic, then post it. you have provided nothing of the sort, i have. and both aurora and northstar have been shown to have good speed on the ground, so mimic would have that as well.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yep, read the bio I posted. That operation happened early in the series, and then later in the series she regained her full speed. Even look at the stats she is back to 99% the speed of light.

BTW That's an outdated bio, she hasn't worn that outfit for years.

Print is too small for the bio you posted - can't read it.
And Stormfront is now saying he's using AOA Aurora, not 616.
If that link on the first page could work...

Northstar has good speed on the ground - this I know. Northstar is not on your team. Where does it say Aurora has superhuman speed on foot?

Originally posted by roughrider
Print is too small for the bio you posted - can't read it.
And Stormfront is now saying he's using AOA Aurora, not 616.
If that link on the first page could work...

Fine, just look at the stats on the second page and read what's in the last box. Also he was always using AoA, since 616 was banned for many reasons.

AoA Aurora bio:
1. http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1490

Originally posted by roughrider
Northstar has good speed on the ground - this I know. Northstar is not on your team. Where does it say Aurora has superhuman speed on foot?

most places it doesn't say northstar has good speed on foot, but we still see him doing it. and i know that 616 things don't count, but her is 616 using her speed in close quarters. we already went over this that i can't use it, but there is nothing stopping AOA aurora from being just as skilled. here's the picture, i got it from livejournal, same place the exiles come from.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Two-in-One084_13.jpg

Like I said - she's in the air, not on the ground. Your scan shows this.
Here's another site that says Aurora is still at only Mach 1 currently.

http://www.alphaflight.net/character_overviews/aurora/

Here is the fixed bios:

AoA Aurora
1. http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1490

Mimic
1. http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1758

Vindicator II
1. http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1113

Phantazia
1. http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/Character2.asp?UniqueId=330

Originally posted by roughrider
Like I said - she's in the air, not on the ground. Your scan shows this.
Here's another site that says Aurora is still at only Mach 1 currently.

http://www.alphaflight.net/character_overviews/aurora/

Nope, she isn't mach 1 anymore. She is back to her full speed potential since AF #85, and then later got experimented on by Weapon X

Edit: Remember that is 616 Aurora, the one battling is AoA. We don't know if she had the same experiment that lowered her speed potential temporally.

Thanks, Mungi.
Still - they give no definite listing for what speed AOA Aurora is capable of.

Originally posted by roughrider
Like I said - she's in the air, not on the ground. Your scan shows this.
Here's another site that says Aurora is still at only Mach 1 currently.

http://www.alphaflight.net/character_overviews/aurora/

yeah...um...why would it matter what speed 616 can now use i don't have 616, i have AOA

Originally posted by roughrider
Thanks, Mungi.
Still - they give no definite listing for what speed AOA Aurora is capable of.


and that's why it was decided during drafting that AOA would be going around mach 10, which was the speed cap

We don't know what speed AOA Aurora is capable of, so we just said she can reach Mach 10, because that is the cap?

Something ain't kosher here.

Anyway, the AOA bio explicity states her power of reaching great speed is through the air; not running on the ground. The lack of space here is a hinderence for her and Mimic to cut loose. Also, her power does not include reflexes on a Quicksilver-like level. Thialfi's reflexes are near instantaneous. Mimic won't react, and blast as fast as Stormfront claims he can.

Originally posted by roughrider
We don't know what speed AOA Aurora is capable of, so we just said she can reach Mach 10, because that is the cap?

Something ain't kosher here.

yeah, because she could be capable of reaching that speed. when we did the drafting we went by the speed of 616 aurora, which at the time was around mach 10 with all the enhancements and downgrades, it wasn't until recently that she gained all her potential back.



yeah, the bio of northstar also states in the air, but he has reached escape velocity or something like that on foot.



this isn't a hindrance, both are capable of flying or running in enclosed spaces, besides they are flying their top speed only once, and that is at the beginning of the fight.




yeah, superhuman reaction time and reflexes generally mean reaction faster than everyone else, and considering that AOA aurora and quicksilver are at the same speed, then yeah i do have the reflexes



yeah, and so are both mimics and auroras, except that are instantaneous, not near. look, mimic is faster, and reacts faster. he just rushes thiafli and cuts him with his above class 50 strength, that is definitely enough to take him out of the fight.



yeah he will. thiafli just isn't a strong character, i'm sorry but he just doesn't cut it when it comes to everyone else. .

I remember a panel of Alpha Flight during Byrne's original run, when Northstar is grabbed by an angry Sasquatch. An editor's note was under the panel, stating that Northstar near-lightspeed cabability does not extend to his reaction time. Hence, his reflexes are not as superhumanly fast. Aurora is supposed to share the same speed of her brother, so has the same reaction time.
I have ratings in my Thialfi bio that show his reflexes at 6/7 - which means virtually instantaneous in the Marvel handbook. Show me a stat that proves AOA Aurora has near-instant reflexes, and by association, Exiles Mimic. You haven't proved it yet.

Originally posted by roughrider
I remember a panel of Alpha Flight during Byrne's original run, when Northstar is grabbed by an angry Sasquatch. An editor's note was under the panel, stating that Northstar near-lightspeed cabability does not extend to his reaction time. Hence, his reflexes are not as superhumanly fast. Aurora is supposed to share the same speed of her brother, so has the same reaction time.


Actually it was stated countless time he does have hightened reflexes. Since he travels mach speeds throughout towns, it's impossible to do the things he does without super reflexes. Hell, even the handbook entries state he has super reflexes.

1. http://www.unfluffybunny.com/cripp12/M-N/tf_Northstarback.jpg

For someone with supposed instantaneous reaction time, Northstar doesn't seem to have it against Logan.

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/...rthstar19au.jpg

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/...rthstar24zq.jpg

Panels didn't upload. I will try again later.

Originally posted by roughrider
For someone with supposed instantaneous reaction time, Northstar doesn't seem to have it against Logan.

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/...rthstar19au.jpg

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/...rthstar24zq.jpg

Your images don't work, and everyone agrees that Wolverine killing Northstar was PIS. Since Northstar easily manhandled Sabertooth with ease.

Edit: Even the scan of Aurora blazing through that apartment at top speed checking every individual room in seconds, tells you right there she has insane reflexes.

Originally posted by roughrider
I remember a panel of Alpha Flight during Byrne's original run, when Northstar is grabbed by an angry Sasquatch. An editor's note was under the panel, stating that Northstar near-lightspeed cabability does not extend to his reaction time. Hence, his reflexes are not as superhumanly fast. Aurora is supposed to share the same speed of her brother, so has the same reaction time.
I have ratings in my Thialfi bio that show his reflexes at 6/7 - which means virtually instantaneous in the Marvel handbook. Show me a stat that proves AOA Aurora has near-instant reflexes, and by association, Exiles Mimic. You haven't proved it yet.

well considering you love bios so much, then aurora does have superhuman reflexes and reaction time. northstar and aurora do not have the same powers, show a scan of northstar speeding up the molecules in an object, show a scan of him shooting lightning. you can't, because he can't, due to the experiments put on aurora they have different powers, and besides, your referring to 616 aurora. they also don't have the same speed, aurora was slower than northstar for a very long time. considering thiafli was killed by a wolf, it doesn't seem like he has instantaneous reflexes. and you do realize the stat format comes from a game right? in AOA Apocalypse, or beast states that northstar and aurora are they fastest people they know, and that was why they were prelates, and in a different issue, there is a paragraph that states that aurora has superhuman speed with reaction time and reflexes to match that speed. though i can't provide an issue number and you can't provide any comic instances where thiafli has shown to have superhuman reaction time. all you have is a bio that has the same bio format as a marvel game. if we are both going by bios then we both have superhuman reaction time and reflexes. if we are going by comic appearances, well you were surprised by a wolf, and it states that aurora has superhuman reaction time.

Where does it state in your AOA Aurora bio, that she has superhuman reaction time?

And chill out over there. I can feel the heat coming through my screen. I know you came into this with a cocky air, drowning other people in message responses before, but still...

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Your images don't work, and everyone agrees that Wolverine killing Northstar was PIS. Since Northstar easily manhandled Sabertooth with ease.

Edit: Even the scan of Aurora blazing through that apartment at top speed checking every individual room in seconds, tells you right there she has insane reflexes.

He manhandled Sabretooth by grabbing him from behind, and flying him into one tree trunk after another.

Originally posted by roughrider
He manhandled Sabretooth by grabbing him from behind, and flying him into one tree trunk after another.

Uh huh, he did it instantly and Sabertooth didn't know what was going on. Trust me he/she does have superhuman reflexes. However, I'm not saying anymore it's up to Stormfront to convince you.

Suprising someone from behind shows instantaneous reflexes?

Originally posted by roughrider
Suprising someone from behind shows instantaneous reflexes?

Do you really want me to post 100 scans showing Northstar/Aurora have heightened reflexes as well as various bios that state they do?

Edit: Here Northstar is running speeds over Mach 18.7 , while dodging cars and buildings
1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/Fanfare_28_03.jpg

Originally posted by roughrider
Where does it state in your AOA Aurora bio, that she has superhuman reaction time?

it does in the AOA comics, and if i remember correctly it states it in the alternate universe handbook. also, it's common sence that she has superhuman reaction time, or else how would she fly at such speeds.



i'm not mad, your just trying to make thiafli seem great, and the fact is that he isn't. he was killed by a wolf, doesn't have a lot of expierence, and isn't even a true asgardian. he's a mrotal granted powers. and your also using a bio that takes stats from ammarvel role-playing game. hardly proof.

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1954

^^mimic also has wolverine who happens to have enhanced reflexes.

mungi, PLEASE let sf do the convincing . . . again it appears it is you AND sf against an opponent. you may well know all the answers, but it's up to sf to do the fighting AND the convincing -- or lack of convincing. how different would this fight already be if you weren't providing so many scans? if a lie is told jump all over him, but please let sf fight on his own. i could help rr out with a few scans and some info but i'm not going to.

there is one little point i'd like to address however: sf, that 'wolf' you've mentioned so many times happens to be FENRIR! do you know who/what fenrir is? it was the 'little' wolf destined to destroy ODIN! i'm thinking thialfi 'apparently' (that's what it said in the summary i read) being destroyed by a creature that was dstined to kill odin, isn't such a bad showing . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
mungi, PLEASE let sf do the convincing . . . again it appears it is you AND sf against an opponent. you may well know all the answers, but it's up to sf to do the fighting AND the convincing -- or lack of convincing. how different would this fight already be if you weren't providing so many scans? if a lie is told jump all over him, but please let sf fight on his own. i could help rr out with a few scans and some info but i'm not going to.


Firs time was a correction about 616 Aurora going mach 1 and then I said I was out, and then he made one comment directed to me so I answered.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Uh huh, he did it instantly and Sabertooth didn't know what was going on. Trust me he/she does have superhuman reflexes. However, I'm not saying anymore it's up to Stormfront to convince you.

He got the scans from the respect thread, I didn't make the thread for this battle. ANyways I'm not going to reply at all this thread anymore. I swear it.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Firs time was a correction about 616 Aurora going mach 1 and then I said I was out, and then he made one comment directed to me so I answered.



He got the scans from the respect thread, I didn't make the thread for this battle. ANyways I'm not going to reply at all this thread anymore. I swear it.

cool!

My bios come from authentic sites; Thialfi and Horus from a Thor fansite, that uses actual rankings from the Marvel Handbook. I posted the extra weaponry for Ultimate Iron Man - from a gaming site - to let everyone see what he has in his arsenal. You criticize my team as being lesser because they have fewer appearences? How many appearences does AOA Aurora have? Or EXILES Mimic?
I'm starting to think this is no fun at all - maybe I'll find something more constructive to do with my time.

Originally posted by roughrider
My bios come from authentic sites; Thialfi and Horus from a Thor fansite, that uses actual rankings from the Marvel Handbook. I posted the extra weaponry for Ultimate Iron Man - from a gaming site - to let everyone see what he has in his arsenal. You criticize my team as being lesser because they have fewer appearences? How many appearences does AOA Aurora have? Or EXILES Mimic?
I'm starting to think this is no fun at all - maybe I'll find something more constructive to do with my time.

don't give up Roughrider

You can do it

man this is tough

With all due respect, after reading through this thread so far, it doesn't seem fair. It's basically a 2 on 1 as far as debating goes. I think King Mungi's posts should be removed from the thread an inadmissable.

Originally posted by leonidas
there is one little point i'd like to address however: sf, that 'wolf' you've mentioned so many times happens to be FENRIR! do you know who/what fenrir is? it was the 'little' wolf destined to destroy ODIN! i'm thinking thialfi 'apparently' (that's what it said in the summary i read) being destroyed by a creature that was dstined to kill odin, isn't such a bad showing . . .

well i got the wolf thing from the link that rider gave, so if it was lying about that, then it might be lying about how powerful both horus and thiafli are. and we both know from the last fight i was in that summaries are wrong, so you should know that getting information from a summary can be faulty.




with all due respect and everything, mungi isn't helping me. rider said that aurora doesn't have superhuman reflexes, and can only go mach 1. that was wrong so mungi stepped in to prove him wrong, which is what a person outside of the fight is allowed to do. think of it this way. if i said thiafli could only lift 10 tons, and mungi had proof that he could lift more, then would you say that's legal? because according to dizzle, a person outside the fight is allowed to post if one of the people in the fight is posting faulty information. you were doing it to me last fight, so why are you arguing against mungi for doing it this fight.



the format that the site is using is from a gaming format though, that was my point.



nope, i said they were less experienced because they had less appearances.



enough to show she is capable. yes, she is the least experienced on my team, but combined with the leaders i have, she is quite formidable.



he has quite a lot, he's part of a team that has had a series going on for a long time.



i respect your opinion, but it is fair. read above. rider is posting faulty information on aurora and mungi is correcting him, that was completely within the rules and dizzle even said it was. if i was posting faulty information about any of riders characters to make my team seem better and you knew it, would you correct me? if we really want to get into it, i had more of a fight out of leo and scoob in my last match than i did from scarletspider.

Originally posted by illadelph12
With all due respect, after reading through this thread so far, it doesn't seem fair. It's basically a 2 on 1 as far as debating goes. I think King Mungi's posts should be removed from the thread an inadmissable.

Oh be quite, I'm tired of this. In various other battles people corrected others. I never once stated roughrider's plan was faulty only corrected his info on 616 Aurora, which isn't even relevant to this thread.

well we haven't gone over strategy in a while, and rider hasn't disproved it.

^so basically my team is able to react faster than his, except for thiafli, and even then it's questionable. mimic rushes in and immediately cuts him in half, or something simpler to take him out immediately. when mimic is moving at mach 5, with above class 50 strength, and metal claws, then thiafli goes down right away.
phantazia, vindicator, and aurora are all immediately right behind mimic seeing as all of them move at mach speeds, except phantazia. phantazia immediately shuts down iron-man taking him out of the fight, while vindicator only needs one hit because she has class 75-85 strength. they do this while mimic engages horus and aurora fights ray. then it's only 2 against 4.
vindicator and mimic fight horus, while phantazia and aurora occupy the ray. horus can't stand up to either vindicator or mimic. his strength is useless because both mimic and vin have force-fields and they move faster than horus does. horus's solar energy is also useless because vindicator can absorb it, so what's he going to do? honestly, with the combined power of heather and mimic, horus goes down rather quickly.
while heather and mimic deal with horus, phantazia and aurora are occupying ray. first off phantazia turns both aurora and herself invisible, and i already explained the whole invisibility thing where they are invisible to everything, while also surrounding them both in a force-field. so now ray doesn't know where to attack, and he doesn't know what to expect. phantazia disrupts rays powers, which she can do even when he's in a force-field, so then basically he useless. so now 1,000 punches in a second from aurora and he's out. there's the victory for my team.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Oh be quite, I'm tired of this. In various other battles people corrected others. I never once stated roughrider's plan was faulty only corrected his info on 616 Aurora, which isn't even relevant to this thread.

this is what i've bee saying also, and dizzle even stated that doing what mungi is doing( correcting roughrider) was okay. also, this was happening to me in the last thread, where people were doing what mungi was doing, and no one even said anything.

As I said, with all due respect, in my opinion it's unfair. Mungi, you've basically been stormfront's hypeman this whole thread. I'm not coming at you or anything, but there's a big difference between simply clarifying mistakes, and what you've been doing. You've essentially been fortifying any holes in stormfront's argument as well as punching holes in roughrider's, whether intentionally or indirectly.

I realize you're the authority on Alpha Flight, but this isn't your debate. At least IM stormfront the info so it's not so apparent and seemingly bias.

.............this has been a storm feast............wheres the action? the heated debate? the drama? the things thing making an apperance??? WHERES MY EGGO!!!!!!!!!???

Originally posted by illadelph12
As I said, with all due respect, in my opinion it's unfair. Mungi, you've basically been stormfront's hypeman this whole thread. I'm not coming at you or anything, but there's a big difference between simply clarifying mistakes, and what you've been doing. You've essentially been fortifying any holes in stormfront's argument as well as punching holes in roughrider's, whether intentionally or indirectly.

I realize you're the authority on Alpha Flight, but this isn't your debate. At least IM stormfront the info so it's not so apparent and seemingly bias.

BULL! Seriously your a bunch of hypercritics, when the exact same thing happened in the other stormfront thread there was like 6 on 1. I come in and then you all give me a hard time. No, I corrected 616 speed feats, and the reflexes which is allowed. I never commented on either's battle tactics.

No duh! I corrected what I wanted and I said I was out. Half the stuff I corrected doesn't even relate to this battle

this is the last time i will say this. mungi isn't helping me in anyway. all of his posts in this thread have been about correcting 616 aurora, i have AOA aurora. none of his posts have involved my characters anyway. also, even if he was correcting roughriders mistakes that is legal according to dizzle. i also have to wonder where everyone was when this was happening to me in the last fight thread. it was like 5 people against me, and scarletspider only posted like 10 times in the whole thread and he was the one i was fighting. what is the difference between what you all were doing to me in the last thread, to what mungi is doing in this?

I don't care anymore, no matter what I do there will always be people complaining.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I don't care anymore, no matter what I do there will always people complaining.

well you weren't doing anything wrong

Originally posted by stormfront13
this is the last time i will say this. mungi isn't helping me in anyway. all of his posts in this thread have been about correcting 616 aurora, i have AOA aurora. none of his posts have involved my characters anyway. also, even if he was correcting roughriders mistakes that is legal according to dizzle. i also have to wonder where everyone was when this was happening to me in the last fight thread. it was like 5 people against me, and scarletspider only posted like 10 times in the whole thread and he was the one i was fighting. what is the difference between what you all were doing to me in the last thread, to what mungi is doing in this?

The difference was I wasn't involved in that. Talk to Scoob and the others. I've simply asked questions of the combatants involved. I haven't volunteered any info in the body of the threads.

I'm just calling it as I see it.

I understand Mungi is the Alpha Flight expert, but I still don't feel he's the one that needs to be clarifying mistakes about characters involved. That's all I'm saying.

It should be relegated to the combatants, and the others should just ask questions that will give clarity on their judgement of the battle.

Originally posted by illadelph12
The difference was I wasn't involved in that. Talk to Scoob and the others. I've simply asked questions of the combatants involved. I haven't volunteered any info in the body of the threads.

I'm just calling it as I see it.

I understand Mungi is the Alpha Flight expert, but I still don't feel he's the one that needs to be clarifying mistakes about characters involved. That's all I'm saying.

It should be relegated to the combatants, and the others should just ask questions that will give clarity on their judgement of the battle.

So what if you wern't involved in it last time. Others were harping at me when I was correcting stuff even though it was still 6 on 1. Yet no one was complaining about that.

You have to be fair to all, yet I KEEP getting harped on? BULL!

616 Aurora mistakes, which isn't even relevant to this battle.

As said if there is a mistake your allowed to correct it, you know what this board has starting to anger me to no ends lately.

i went back and all I saw in the posts for King_Mungi. all he did was

1.post a new bio for AOA aurora

2. correct RR on the 616 Aurora's current speeds after she lost a bunch (who isn't who RR should worry about, call it a blessing in disguise)

3. correcting that northstar and aurora had superhuman reflexes (which shouldn't even have had to be debated once aurora was shown zipping through a crumbling appartment building).

He never said anything along the lines of "That wouldn't work RR because SF's charactors could..." he simply said what 616 has been capable of in comics and that AOA was in use not 616.

sf says:

<<rider said that aurora doesn't have superhuman reflexes, and can only go mach 1. that was wrong so mungi stepped in to prove him wrong, which is what a person outside of the fight is allowed to do.>>

you're exactly right -- mungi stepped in and proved it wrong. that's the thing -- it's NOT mungi's place to prove him wrong, it's you're place. it's your debate.

and please show me in that other thread anywhere i took part in 'teaming up against you', or where i helped . . . whoever you fought. hell, i even voted as a judge FOR you. i also told scoob i didn't think what he was doing was vey cool and i think he understood and pretty much backed off or started asking questions rather than posting scans and feats and corrections.

i'm not anti-sf or anti-mungi (contrary to what you may think) and i'm seriously not trying to piss you guys off. i certainly don't think ill is either. i (and i'll assume he) just want to see YOU defend your characters and i want to see how well YOU know them.

i'm not even sure it matters much. rr may not even be around for the rest of this fight . . .

Mungi I will say this reading through some of your statements last night it appeared as if you were the one in the debate and not SF.

You may think what you did wasn't wrong I may think what you did for the MOST part wasn't wrong but it appears as if you are trying to fight for SF simply because you have the knowledge doesn't mean you should be the one giving it out. I mean I go through half the debates and go oh well this is true or a character can do this but it is up the debaters to prove and make me believe what a caracter can and can not do.

Actually, I don't resent what Mungi was doing - he was actually being helpful, as an Alpha Flight expert. There were bad links to Stormfront's characters at the beginning, and it was not explicitely stated that it was AOA Aurora; just Aurora. It wasn't said that it was Exiles Mimic either - I just happened to vaguely remember the draft arguement about him, and that it was the Exiles one.

I haven't enjoyed dealing with Stormfront's atitude here, is what. He posts his strategy first, I posted mine based on what my team should do, and he makes remarks like"You can't do that, I already killed that guy." I don't have access to a scanner, he's relying a lot on vague bios for what some of his characters can do, and criticizes me for doing the same. What am I busting my chops dealing with this guy for?
Maybe I just feeling like doing something else for a while.

Originally posted by roughrider
Actually, I don't resent what Mungi was doing - he was actually being helpful, as an Alpha Flight expert. There were bad links to Stormfront's characters at the beginning, and it was not explicitely stated that it was AOA Aurora; just Aurora. It wasn't said that it was Exiles Mimic either - I just happened to vaguely remember the draft arguement about him, and that it was the Exiles one.

I haven't enjoyed dealing with Stormfront's atitude here, is what. He posts his strategy first, I posted mine based on what my team should do, and he makes remarks like"You can't do that, I already killed that guy." I don't have access to a scanner, he's relying a lot on vague bios for what some of his characters can do, and criticizes me for doing the same. What am I busting my chops dealing with this guy for?
Maybe I just feeling like doing something else for a while.

of course sf is gonna say that -- it's his job, and he's trying to convince us all that he CAN do what he's saying. for your part, it's your job to convince us he CAN'T. post what you need to and let the readers decide who has made the better case.

you're not out of this by a long shot, but by appearing to give up and give in, it makes it seem as though YOU don't believe you can win. if you don't believe it, why should we?

Of course I believe my team has a chance to win. This is the first tournament I've been in, and we been going since beginning of January. I'm just feeling tired; spending a lot of time on these threads. Stormfront drowned his previous opponent in one similar post after another. Do I feel like another 30 pages of saying "Can!" "Can't!" "Can" "Can't" with him?

Originally posted by illadelph12
I understand Mungi is the Alpha Flight expert, but I still don't feel he's the one that needs to be clarifying mistakes about characters involved. That's all I'm saying.

It should be relegated to the combatants, and the others should just ask questions that will give clarity on their judgement of the battle.

yes, you would would be partially right if mungi was correcting about characters that were in this fight, he wasn't. he was correcting 616 aurora, i have AOA aurora.



it's also not my place to prove roughrider wrong about characters that aren't even in this fight. mungi proved him wrong when it came to 616 aurora, not AOA aurora, and i am using AOA aurora. see the difference there? mungi never stepped over the boundaries, he only talked about characters that weren't in the fight, he never once displayed a strategy for me.



you seem to think that proving faulty information about a character is wrong, which you were doing in the last match, along with many others. if you weren't one of the people who was doing it i apologize, but there were a lot. what people were doing to me in the last round, and mungi is doing here is exactly the same except that mungi is talking about characters that aren't even in here. all i was saying was that why is there such an uproar when mungi is talking about characters that aren't even in this, and last round, i got tons of argument from everyone else about what mimic could and couldn't do as well as AOA aurora, and no one even said a thing.



i was defending AOA aurora, which is the character i chose, mungi was defending 616 aurora and northstar, and both characters aren't even in the tourney. see the difference?



no, mungi was the one in the debate about 616 aurora, i don't have 616 aurora, so why should i debate about her?



once again, i have never gotten any help from mungi. roughrider said that 616 aurora could only go mach 1 and didn't have superhuman reaction time and reflexes. mungi corrected him. but as many of you didn't notice, i am not using 616 aurora, i am using aoa aurora, so if he were defending a character that isn't even in this fight, why should it matter?



it's not up to me to prove anything about 616 aurora, seeing as i don't even have her on my team.



relying on vague bios? do you really want to go to the last round thread and see all the scans and everything i had? i didn't even post half of all the scans i could use in the last round, i know my characters, i was relying on vague bios for your characters. i mean honestly who has ever heard of thiafli. he's not even in the marvel dictionary books that were around the same time he was a character. and i'm supposed to debate that way here, that's how these types of things go. i don't know if this is your first one or something, but i'm supposed to say things like that to make the people believe i could win. that's how it goes. it wasn't attitude or anything, it's just all about making the voters believe your team can win, you have to be persistent.

Originally posted by roughrider
Of course I believe my team has a chance to win. This is the first tournament I've been in, and we been going since beginning of January. I'm just feeling tired; spending a lot of time on these threads. Stormfront drowned his previous opponent in one similar post after another. Do I feel like another 30 pages of saying "Can!" "Can't!" "Can" "Can't" with him?

yeah, tournaments last for a long time, i feel the sme way you do, but i really don't feel like giving up. and yeah, some threads last 30 pages, but if you honestly want to win it really isnt that hard to deal with people/stuff like that. when i was in my first tourney with nataku, our thread went to like 25-30 pages literally.

thing is, sf, that you are using several of 616's feats as evidence that aoa can do them. so in effect, it amounts to the same thing.

anyway, km says he'll lay off, which is cool enough for me. hopefully no one else will interfere like you say happened the last time, and you and rr can settle this mano-e-mano!

boxing

Originally posted by grey fox
10-20 bet that Sf makes a reference to storm at some point in his argument.....

um....all of my team except phantazia can fly faster than storm..ther you go fox

Originally posted by leonidas
thing is, sf, that you are using several of 616's feats as evidence that aoa can do them. so in effect, it amounts to the same thing.

anyway, km says he'll lay off, which is cool enough for me. hopefully no one else will interfere like you say happened the last time.
boxing

correction, that was last thread. i have only posted one picture of aurora in this entire thread, and that was to prove to rr that she had superhuman reflexes.



i am soooooo ready

so set my mind at rest -- what ARE the specific differences between aoa and 616. is it simply the max speed?

Iron Man - or Ultimate Iron Man - can propel himself through the air at superhuman speed, even if it's only Mach 1. But I don't claim he has superhuman reflexes because he can fly fast. He doesn't. And despite all the stuff printed about Aurora - even AOA Aurora - there's still nothing that proves her reflex reaction time is Quicksilver-like. No bio stat, no scanned feat. You may have something with Exiles Mimic having Wolvie's enhanced reaction time, but that's for h2h, and only half as much as him.
Heck, this location with the three short hallways, is great cover if I just want to blast all day at your group. If Thialfi finds any crossbows sitting in my chamber, he could join in and arrow Phantazia. All of your characters are vunerable to Ult. IM's neural scramblers and genetic lock shot; they would all be sick and vunerable for enough time to be gunned down by my other characters. No where to fly away to with only 20 foot ceilings.

Originally posted by leonidas
so set my mind at rest -- what ARE the specific differences between aoa and 616. is it simply the max speed?

no, they have the same speed, reflexes, reaction time, the ability to shoot electricity, concussive blasts, blinding flashes of light. basically the only thing that AOA aurora can't do that 616 can is speed up molecules and possibly hypnotize people. we don't know if she could hypnotize people because she never tried, but since they supposedly had the same light powers, then she might be able to, but it can't be proved. and I'm glad we got this whole thing settled, and i apologize if i came off rude or anything.



you do realize that in a lot of bios, it doesn't;t even say that people like flash and quicksilver have superhuman reaction time right? it just comes with the power. also, since 616 aurora and AOA aurora have the same reaction time and reflexes, you saw the pic i posted with her flying through the house. anyway, iron-man gets shut off immediately. you know this, you have nothing that even suggests that he is immune to being shut off. i mean his armor needs hundreds of workers just to keep it going from mission to mission, and the fact that he was messed by lightning is just more proof for my case. phantazia shuts him down immediately. while thiafli is getting cut by mimic. thiafli doesn't' have much experience, and isn't even that durable, and is also slower than mimic. one slash across the stomach and he's out. then it's only horus and ray VS my whole team. horus is useless because his strength is useless, and both mimic and vindicator can absorb his solar energy, so what does he have going for him? nothing. it's only a matter of time for them to take him out of the fight. then it's my whole team VS ray. honestly, what would he do?

Originally posted by stormfront13
iron-man gets shut off immediately. you know this, you have nothing that even suggests that he is immune to being shut off. i mean his armor needs hundreds of workers just to keep it going from mission to mission, and the fact that he was messed by lightning is just more proof for my case.

I don't think that lightning thing ever happened

The genetic lock shot depowers three of your team members long enough for my guys to kill them. Then, it's just Vindicator against my four. What does she do then?

Originally posted by Scoobless
I don't think that lightning thing ever happened

i am like 95% positive it happened, it was one of the times that he fought thor. i was flipping through one of the ultimates tpb's and i saw tony being hit by a lightning bolt and after that his suit didn't function right. thor was there and he looked pisssed at tony, so i assumed it was him that did it.

Originally posted by roughrider
The genetic lock shot depowers three of your team members long enough for my guys to kill them. Then, it's just Vindicator against my four. What does she do then?

tony doesn't have time to get the genetic lock off before he's shut down, and even if he did all my characters are in a force-field, and phantazia can just reverse the affects. she has been depowered before and the affects were useless. also, even if it did happen, vindicator is more than capable of holding them off. surround them in a force-field, create lava walls, as a distraction, and while they are taking cover, surround them in hardened lava. and for anyne in a force-field, i posted a pic of her affecting mac-clone inside a force-field.

what is the range of phantazia's power? could she for instance be struck by tony before she was in range to shut him down?

oh, and no worries about being rude. all's cool my friend!

Originally posted by leonidas
what is the range of phantazia's power? could she for instance be struck by tony before she was in range to shut him down?

well the range is pretty far, she's been able to hit opponents that were very far away from her, though she is going into this with her force-field up and ready for attack, and all she needs is like a split second to shut down his armor, and even if he had his force-field up she could still tag him because she doesn't need a blast or anything to shut down machinery.



good, i'm glad i try to avoid confrontation with many people, and thats one of the reasons i'm not very good at debating

How durable is Thialfi?

It turns out he was killed by Fenrer which isnt just any wolf by Fenrer could easily kill alot of the contestants.

Thialfi has the high durability of any Asgardian Immortal. It's rated as superhuman, by the Marvel guide.

7 - Superhuman: skin, bone, and muscle augmented to make it stronger and harder than human; impervious to injury to an extraordinary extent

Some background info on this wolf, who was destined to kill Odin.


History: The Fenris Wolf is a creature of the Asgardian dimension who is said to be an offspring of Loki and the giant Angrboda. It is a huge wolf (usual height 15 feet tall) with human-like intelligence, vast strength and the capacity to change its shape to that of a god or to change its size to that of a real wolf. Before it reached maturity, Fenris threatened Iduna, keeper of the gods' golden apples of immortality, and was banished to Varinheim by Haakun the Hunter. This incident later became the basis for the fairy tale of Little Red Riding Hood. Just as Fenris reached maturity, the Asgardian gods decided it would be unsafe to allow Fenris to roam the land unfettered. They took to playing a game with the wolf to see how easily he could snap the bonds they put on him. Each time they forged a thicker and stronger chain of iron, but Fenris broke them all. Finally Odin commanded a dwarf toe forge an enchanted fetter. The dwarf did so, creating a thin, silklike substance of phenomenal durability called Gleipnir. When the gods entreated Fenris to try to break this binding, the wolf-god sensed that the fragile-looking substance was a trick. Fenris agreed to let him put the bonds around him only if there was a god willing to put his hand in the wolf's mouth as a gesture of trust. If the bonds did probe to be unbreakable, Fenris would bite. Among the gods assembled for this task, only Tyr, the courageous god of war, was willing to make such a sacrifice. he placed his right hand between the wolf's huge fangs as the bonds were put in place, and when Fenris learned that the more he struggled, the tighter the bonds were drawn, he bit off Tyr's hand. The gods then bound Fenris to a rock where he has been kept to this day. It is prophesied that when Ragnarok, the twilight of the Asgardian gods, occurs, Fenris will devour Odin.

I also wonder about Phantazia's range. Maybe Ray should just slam everyone against the back wall with a solid wall of light; that would give the rest of my team enough time to pick off (at least)two of Stormfront's characters; making a four on two. And, I believe Tony will have his force-field on during this, increasing his durability to most attacks.

Originally posted by phillipan
How durable is Thialfi?

It turns out he was killed by Fenrer which isnt just any wolf by Fenrer could easily kill alot of the contestants.

the bio rider posted, and he is going by it a lot, said it was a mere asgardian wolf that killed thiafli.



prove it, your bio which you are using to prove everything about thifali states it was a mere asgardian wolf, and he was killed in an alternate reality, which is more reason to think it wasn't fenrir.




from what dizzle and you say about the environment, you make it seem not all that big, and phantazia's range is very far. all of my characters are in a force-field, and phantazia could just make rays powers dis functional and unreliable, so basically the wall isn't doing anything. like i said aurora reacts faster than ray and can rush ray before he knows what's going on, she's definitely fast enough to. tony will get shut down immediately by phantazia, and even if he wasn't, i already proved that vindicator can affect the insides of his force-field. like i said before, most of My team reacts faster than yours. mimic rushes in and slashes thiafli across the stomach, doing major damage to him, taking him out, then rushes to take on horus. aurora flies in right after mimic separating the ray from the rest of the team, and phantazia stays a little behind while shutting down iron-man and making vindicator invisible, so he doesn't know he has an opponent, and vindicator takes him out permanently. then it's 2 against 4, and horus is useless to you because mimic can absorb his energy, and has the durability and healing factor and force-field to shrug off any hit.

Anyone gets too close to Horus, it's stun-paralysis with the left eye.
Keep in mind, Mimic's claws may be metal, but not adamantium. And Thialfi is armoured and fast. He'll get a rake across him, at best.

And just how did the supposed-instant-reacting AOA Aurora, come to be impaled on Kirika's claws?

Originally posted by roughrider
Anyone gets too close to Horus, it's stun-paralysis with the left eye.
Keep in mind, Mimic's claws may be metal, but not adamantium. And Thialfi is armoured and fast. He'll get a rake across him, at best.

fine, mimic can close his eyes and fight horus. he can still sense him and every movement he makes by sensing him through em fields. thiafli may be fast, but mimic is faster, stronger, and has a better weapon system. trust me, a class 50+ moving at mach speeds would impale thiafli through his body...easy.



she got impaled because she wasn't even looking at kirika, she was looking at northstar. if you can't see an attack, and don't know it's coming, how can you react to dodge it?

Got a point there. Maybe when Mimic's charging Thialfi, and gets shot from behind by Ult. IM with the genetic lock beam, he'll die on Thialfi's sword just as easy.

Originally posted by roughrider
Got a point there. Maybe when Mimic's charging Thialfi, and gets shot from behind by Ult. IM with the genetic lock beam, he'll die on Thialfi's sword just as easy.

iron-man gets shut down immediately, you know this. I have provided scans in my last round where phantazia has shut down machinery without even trying, even very sophisticated machinery. also, electricity messes with tony's suit so he is definitely useless for you when i have phantazia. also, how is the blast going through the force-field mimic has, and whose to say he can't dodge it, i mean he will sense it is coming after all and with his superhuman reaction time and speed he can easily avoid it.

you keep saying that ironman is weak to electricity but havent proven it. You have a scan or bio that says that?