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Ozymandias from Watchmen fights the Captain in a large room with plenty of place to improvise and lots of furniture and objects lying around.

Both men have 1 hour prep.

So, a peak intelligence human who is skilled physically, versus a peak physical human who is smart as well.

H2H, weapons and prep allowed. Who wins?

Cap.

It helps if you state reasons and points.

Ozzyman catches bullets

But got pwned by the comedian before. Unfairly killed him to get revenge later on.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
But got pwned by the comedian before

As a youngster, yes - he beat the shit out of him second time round grown up

True, but aside from catching a bullet and fighting/killing the comedian, what other combat feats does he have?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
True, but aside from catching a bullet and fighting/killing the comedian, what other combat feats does he have?

Beating up Rorschach and the Owl as if they were little girls and we know how tough Rorschach is.

Rorscarch isn't really that exceptional in fighting though his resourcefulness, toughness and investigative traits are amazing. Niteowl 2 even moreso, he was never the type for direct conflicts but moreon technological savy unlike the first niteowl.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Rorscarch isn't really that exceptional in fighting though his resourcefulness, toughness and investigative traits are amazing. Niteowl 2 even moreso, he was never the type for direct conflicts but moreon technological savy unlike the first niteowl.

Well he seemed to do pretty well in all circumstances except against Ozzy, It's years since I read it though, so I might be wrong. I seem to remember he was an animal hand to hand and even got sent to Juvy for his level of violence. Great Mini series though.

That i concur, Watchmen was awesome. One of favs along with KC.

Ozymandias wins! He really kicked in 2 heroes like lttle girls and I reckon Rorschach is bad ass

Well, Rorschach isn't exceptionally exceptional in H2H or martial arts, but he is nevertheless very tough, very resorceful, and doesn't appear to give up. Ever.

But Ozymandias beat him easily. Twice. And Nite Owl II at the same time.

Plus, Ozy can catch bullets. Wouldn't have much trouble catching Cap's shield.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
As a youngster, yes - he beat the shit out of him second time round grown up
Some victory, the Comedian was already 65 years old or so, and Ozymandias surprised him (I wouldn't be surprised if the Comedian was drunk at the time).

I am tired of hearing a lot of the things mentioned above, so I hope what I have to say next will end this once and for all.........

I am talking STRICTLY AND ONLY about Ozymandias from the Watchman movie here.

Ozymandias wins, dont worry, I will tell you why.

Ozymandias has demonstrated on numerous occasions superhuman strength, superhuman reflexes and superhuman intelligence.
Ozymandias CAUGHT A BULLET...... HE CAUGHT A BULLET, and he DODGED LIKE TEN MORE BULLETS......

Ladies and Gentleman, lets stop pretending that this is not a big deal. Let's also stop trying to take away credit from Ozymandias.

It doesn't matter if you Ozymandias hatters say things like :" oh, but that was just lucky!!" I'm sorry, but when you catch something as fast as a bullet aimed at you, you usually aren't just "lucky"..... You need superhuman speed and reflexes to do that.

Some more eveidence to prove that Ozymandias wasn't just lucky................ Number one, he has on numerous occasions dodged bullets. Number two, he displayed superhuman speed in all his fights.

Has it ever occured to you Ozymandias haters that maybe it wasn't JUST luck?? Has it ever occured to you guys that maybe, just maybe, that Ozymandias caught the bullet because he had superhuman senses?

Ok, second of all, Ozymandias has on numerous occasions demonstrated superhuman strength. He kicked a man and sent him flying more than 20 feet across the room. He took a gigantic weapon in Watchman and smashed a guy and sent him flying for like 7 seconds before he fell....

He beat the tar out of Rorschach and Night Owl at the same time, two of the best fighters of their era, like they were 2 infants............ Even though Rorschach has shown the ability to hold his own against more than 20 armed and trained police officers attacking him at the same time..........

He also was able to beat the tar out of the comedian, who was stated to be superior to 99 percent of average humans, even though Comedian was a 60 year old man. Yep, the Comedian is actually in better physical shape then 99 percent of the human race, better than people who were 20 or 30 years younger than him.

Yea, I know the comedian was old, but, actually, contrary to popular belief, the comedian didn't get significantly weaker over the years, due to his intense combat training.

Captain America, on the otherhand, is NOT superhuman. He is simply a human body that is pushed to its very limits.

That enables him to run a mile in 1 minute and 10 seconds, and regenerate from wounds faster than a normal human. But, THERE IS NO WAY, I REPEAT, NO WAY, THAT CAPTAIN AMERICAN CAN SEE OR EVADE BULLETS, LET ALONG CATCH ONE.

I have seen Captain America at his fastest. At his fastest, he was able to run the mile in a little bit more than a minute.

But use your common sense guys, a bullet would finish a mile in less than 7 seconds, and Ozymandias proved himself to be far faster than a bullet.

In fact, in Watchman when they put Ozymandias and the bullets in slow motion, we can actually see him outrunning those bullets.

Captain America at the peak of his strength was able to barely lift a small car a few feet from the ground. Barely. Now, for a normal human, that is amazing. But compared to Ozymandias taking out the best fighters of his time, dodging and catching bullets, and kicking people and sending them flying like 30 feet across the room, Captain America isn't that amazing.

One more argument I here from Captain America fans is that : " oh, but captain america would have better techniques.... blablabla"
I will not deny the fact that captain america has good techniques.

But, Rorschach was one of the best street brawlers of all time when it comes to street brawls and gangfighting. So was night Owl. They both demonstrated enough skill to fight of multiple trained armed forces of gans and policemen. They both dominated every single street fight there was, and they both dominated the prison fights in jail.

BUT, RORSCHACH AND NIGHT OWL BOTH GOT PAWNED AROUND BY OZYMANDIAS LIKE THEY WERE 2 INFANTS!!!!!!!!!

So, technique does help, but when someone outnumbers you in the speed of movements by like 100 times, (which in this case is true), techniques won't help out Captain America much here.....

So, what I am trying to say here is....... In terms of strength, they are more or less equal. In terms of technique, Captain Marvel has the advantage over Ozymandias. But, fact is, the difference between their speed is just too big.

If Ozymandias could see bullets comming at him and dodge and catch them, it would only make sense if he could see Captain America's movements, and dodge him too, right?

Last but not least, Ozymandias is officially and literally, "the smartest man in the world." He has on numerous occasions demonstrated his intelligence. He was able to manipulate the genes of people, outwit all the other minutemen and the police officers, creat an alien monster, invent deadly weapons, outsmart the government, etc............. Captain America is smart too, but they are not in the same league.

Ozymandia's intelligence would help him out certainly.

Now, guys, please don't get mad at me. It's not that I don't like Captain America..... I LIKE him, and I think he is an ultra cool guy, but facts are facts.

Again, I am talking STRICTLY AND ONLY about the Ozymandias from the movie Watchman.

Hope this helped, and you are all welcomed to disagree with me anytime.

am tired of hearing a lot of the things mentioned above, so I hope what I have to say next will end this once and for all.........

I am talking STRICTLY AND ONLY about Ozymandias from the Watchman movie here.

Ozymandias wins, dont worry, I will tell you why.

Ozymandias has demonstrated on numerous occasions superhuman strength, superhuman reflexes and superhuman intelligence.
Ozymandias CAUGHT A BULLET...... HE CAUGHT A BULLET, and he DODGED LIKE TEN MORE BULLETS......

Ladies and Gentleman, lets stop pretending that this is not a big deal. Let's also stop trying to take away credit from Ozymandias.

It doesn't matter if you Ozymandias hatters say things like :" oh, but that was just lucky!!" I'm sorry, but when you catch something as fast as a bullet aimed at you, you usually aren't just "lucky"..... You need superhuman speed and reflexes to do that.

Some more eveidence to prove that Ozymandias wasn't just lucky................ Number one, he has on numerous occasions dodged bullets. Number two, he displayed superhuman speed in all his fights.

Has it ever occured to you Ozymandias haters that maybe it wasn't JUST luck?? Has it ever occured to you guys that maybe, just maybe, that Ozymandias caught the bullet because he had superhuman senses?

Ok, second of all, Ozymandias has on numerous occasions demonstrated superhuman strength. He kicked a man and sent him flying more than 20 feet across the room. He took a gigantic weapon in Watchman and smashed a guy and sent him flying for like 7 seconds before he fell....

He beat the tar out of Rorschach and Night Owl at the same time, two of the best fighters of their era, like they were 2 infants............ Even though Rorschach has shown the ability to hold his own against more than 20 armed and trained police officers attacking him at the same time..........

He also was able to beat the tar out of the comedian, who was stated to be superior to 99 percent of average humans, even though Comedian was a 60 year old man. Yep, the Comedian is actually in better physical shape then 99 percent of the human race, better than people who were 20 or 30 years younger than him.

Yea, I know the comedian was old, but, actually, contrary to popular belief, the comedian didn't get significantly weaker over the years, due to his intense combat training.

Captain America, on the otherhand, is NOT superhuman. He is simply a human body that is pushed to its very limits.

That enables him to run a mile in 1 minute and 10 seconds, and regenerate from wounds faster than a normal human. But, THERE IS NO WAY, I REPEAT, NO WAY, THAT CAPTAIN AMERICAN CAN SEE OR EVADE BULLETS, LET ALONG CATCH ONE.

I have seen Captain America at his fastest. At his fastest, he was able to run the mile in a little bit more than a minute.

But use your common sense guys, a bullet would finish a mile in less than 7 seconds, and Ozymandias proved himself to be far faster than a bullet.

In fact, in Watchman when they put Ozymandias and the bullets in slow motion, we can actually see him outrunning those bullets.

Captain America at the peak of his strength was able to barely lift a small car a few feet from the ground. Barely. Now, for a normal human, that is amazing. But compared to Ozymandias taking out the best fighters of his time, dodging and catching bullets, and kicking people and sending them flying like 30 feet across the room, Captain America isn't that amazing.

One more argument I here from Captain America fans is that : " oh, but captain america would have better techniques.... blablabla"
I will not deny the fact that captain america has good techniques.

But, Rorschach was one of the best street brawlers of all time when it comes to street brawls and gangfighting. So was night Owl. They both demonstrated enough skill to fight of multiple trained armed forces of gans and policemen. They both dominated every single street fight there was, and they both dominated the prison fights in jail.

BUT, RORSCHACH AND NIGHT OWL BOTH GOT PAWNED AROUND BY OZYMANDIAS LIKE THEY WERE 2 INFANTS!!!!!!!!!

So, technique does help, but when someone outnumbers you in the speed of movements by like 100 times, (which in this case is true), techniques won't help out Captain America much here.....

So, what I am trying to say here is....... In terms of strength, they are more or less equal. In terms of technique, Captain Marvel has the advantage over Ozymandias. But, fact is, the difference between their speed is just too big.

If Ozymandias could see bullets comming at him and dodge and catch them, it would only make sense if he could see Captain America's movements, and dodge him too, right?

Last but not least, Ozymandias is officially and literally, "the smartest man in the world." He has on numerous occasions demonstrated his intelligence. He was able to manipulate the genes of people, outwit all the other minutemen and the police officers, creat an alien monster, invent deadly weapons, outsmart the government, etc............. Captain America is smart too, but they are not in the same league.

Ozymandia's intelligence would help him out certainly.

Now, guys, please don't get mad at me. It's not that I don't like Captain America..... I LIKE him, and I think he is an ultra cool guy, but facts are facts.

Again, I am talking STRICTLY AND ONLY about the Ozymandias from the movie Watchman.

Hope this helped, and you are all welcomed to disagree with me anytime.

So you're saying that because movie Ozymandias was shown to have dodged bullets, caught bullets, and sent people flying with punches and kicks, it's safe to assume he's got superhuman strength and speed..... however, Captain America (who is stated to be enhanced) isn't up to par with that, in spite of decades worth of better feats to back up his superhuman stats?

.....



.....



Captain America ftw.

By feats alone, Cap. America should win no prob

hilarious post.... to hype ozy and massively downplay caps feats that put him above Ozy in various areas... hell, its fair to mention he might have even lied about cap's abilities or knows nothing about cap.

A) Cap has seen bullets travel in slow motion.

B) Cap has depiction of outrunning bullets and tossing his shield in its path after they bn fired... Ozy Movie interpretation of bullet timing <<<< Comic interpretation of Cap bullet timing.

Cap ftw.

Ozy's best bet is to go for a quick win and hope that Cap left his shield at home. If the fight goes too long Captain America's superhuman endurance will be the deciding factor. But Captain America is in for a damn good fight, Ozy might even gain the upper hand for a moment but I doubt he'll win.
Cap 8/10

Originally posted by kdonggyu94

Again, I am talking about Ozymandias from the movie Watchman. Ozymandias from the Comics would lose to Cap America....

For the record, Captain America has never caught a bullet.

Again, it is still my opinion that you cannot catch bullets and be human.

Cap America is part of supersoldier program, so yea, he can run like crazy, lift heavier objects, and do amazing things.

But Ozymandias took out other superheroes who have performed feats almost equal to Cap America. Ozymandias beat the hell out of Rorschach and Night Owl like they were both infants,

Ozymandias evaded countless bullets and caught a bullet before smashing the assasin and sending him flying across the room. Not only does Ozy have superhuman speed/ reflexes, he has superhuman senses which allows him to see where his opponent's attack is going to go beforehand.... If he can see bullets in slow motion, he can see Captain America's moves in slow motion, and counter them.

Again, there is no indication of Captain America's speed that suggests he can match Ozymandia's speed.

The fastest I have seen Captain America is when he ran a mile in a little more than a minute.

If it's hand to hand combat, speed and strength = everything.

If Ozymandias can woop two of the best fighters of his era- Rorschach and Night Owl like two little wussy girls, I am sure he can best Cap America after a good fight.....

And guys, list facts, don't just discredit what people say. Give real evidence

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
Again, I am talking about Ozymandias from the movie Watchman. Ozymandias from the Comics would lose to Cap America....

For the record, Captain America has never caught a bullet. Again, it is still my opinion that you cannot catch bullets and be human.

And guys, list facts, don't just discredit what people say. Give real evidence
Clearly you don't know much about Captain America. Let's revisit his respect thread....

Why take a chance to catch a bullet and take damage like Ozymandias (who also had to play dead in order to disarm Silk Spectre II) when Cap could simply dodge them or block them with his shield altogether to resume his attack?

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3522/cs5zs8.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/i/cs1az3.jpg

For the record, Captain America has healed from an otherwise fatal headshot. It is not my opinion but a fact that you cannot fully recovered from a fatal headshot and be anything less than superhuman.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4069/capfalcon1310fr2.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9591/capfalcon1318je2.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7548/page003004sn5.jpg

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
Cap America is part of supersoldier program, so yea, he can run like crazy, lift heavier objects, and do amazing things.

But Ozymandias took out other superheroes who have performed feats almost equal to Cap America. Ozymandias beat the hell out of Rorschach and Night Owl like they were both infants,
Laying waste to Rorschach and Night Owl means f*ck all, really. Neither had any feats that topped anything Captain America's already done countless times. Even the hyped up movie versions only managed to match Roger's average feats. Cap would have thrashed every single member of the Crimebusters and the Minutemen except Dr. Manhattan... probably even at the same time.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
Ozymandias evaded countless bullets and caught a bullet before smashing the assasin and sending him flying across the room. Not only does Ozy have superhuman speed/ reflexes, he has superhuman senses which allows him to see where his opponent's attack is going to go beforehand.... If he can see bullets in slow motion, he can see Captain America's moves in slow motion, and counter them.

Again, there is no indication of Captain America's speed that suggests he can match Ozymandia's speed. The fastest I have seen Captain America is when he ran a mile in a little more than a minute.

If it's hand to hand combat, speed and strength = everything.
Why the hell are you equating running speed to combat reflexes? They're not the same measure of speed. Anyhow, a mile a minute is 60 miles per hour. Where are Ozymandias' running feats to match?

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1544/bleyf5.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3673/wow1cg3.jpg

So much for Ozymandias being faster... Surely he'd be stronger than Cap, right?

Nah. Ozymandias's biggest strength feats were throwing the past-prime Comedian through plate glass, and beating the crap out of a would-be assassin with a presumably solid metal ornamental piece.

Cap effortlessly curling 500lbs (without the benefit of the Super http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1125/curl500tu1.jpg

Punching a feral Wolverine through a car:
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8628/wc3yk3.jpg

Already he's got better feats.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
If Ozymandias can woop two of the best fighters of his era- Rorschach and Night Owl like two little wussy girls, I am sure he can best Cap America after a good fight.....

Rorschach and Night Owl were among the best in their respective universe, but they can't hold a candle to most other skilled streets in either DC or Marvel... much less Captain America. In comparison, they'd might as well be "two little wussy girls".

Captain America has beaten many of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe. Those he couldn't beat, he at least stalemated. Ozymandias has beaten Rorschach, Nite-Owl II, and a past-prime and possibly drunk Comedian.

http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/2839/scan00222pr.th.jpg http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/7710/scan00239un.th.jpg http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/2331/scan00243nj.th.jpg http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/2371/scan00258xv.th.jpg http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/237/scan00266jd.th.jpg http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/1333/scan00276vh.th.jpg http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1608/scan00286bd.th.jpg http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/6641/scan00295fv.th.jpg http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/2415/scan00309ew.th.jpg http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9397/scan00316cl.th.jpg

Ozymandias would get his ass handed to him by Captain America, regardless of which version of Ozymandias you use.

You guys must be incredibly tired of hearing.

How many times do I have to repeat the words "hand to hand combat?" So STOP mentioning Captain America's shield for God's sake, cauz we are talking ONLY about hand to hand combat. So don't go telling me :" oh, but captain america can block bullets with his shield!" Geez, PAY ATTENTION.

Also, don't tell people they don't know what they are talking about. I'm sure everyone here usually have a pretty good understanding of the comics. Let's stick to the topic, and not tell each other things like :" Oh you don't know crap about captain america.'

Cauz I do as a matter of fact, and I can prove that by describing to you every single appearance and enemy Captain America faced and describe to you the encounters.

Ok, here are some things that Ozymandias REALLY did.
1) Kicking Night Owl who was stated to be over 250 pounds, and sending him flying at least 40 feet. So in terms of strength, Cap may have an advantage, but only a slight one.

2). Even in the comics, when Ozymandias was surrounded by up to 10 guys with guns firing at him at the same time, he managed to time, forsee, and observe the path of every single bullet fired, and dodge them all. He then closed the distance and broke the neck of just about every single assasin there, and only one of the assasins had time to reload before getting ripped into pieces by Ozymandias.

3). Don't tell me that Rorschach isn't strong. He managed to best more than 10 armed policeman barehanded. He dominated every single prison he went to. He beat up any hoodlum/gangster that crossed his path. When he was a kid he would kill adults in the most violent ways you can imagine. He jumpted from the roofs of buildings onto the roofs of other buildings, much like spiderman. Yea, there is no proof that he had superhuman powers, but he demonstrated enough power to put him in the very peak of the human body potential.

Night Owl beat the tar out of every single person he faced (even many super villains). He was an excellent combatant too.

Right, I agree with you that Captain America can do that easily. yea, he can probably beat up any human he wants. I would also say that he should be able to take Night Owl and Rorschach at the same time.

BUT, if you look at how easily Ozymandias annihilated Rorschach and Night Owl, you will be amazed. (unless you look at it from a biased point of view). I DOUBT captain america can do that.

Again, Captain America is only a human body pushed to its very limits. He can heal 5 times faster than most humans, but that's not gonna prevent him from getting KILLED. In other words, the ability to heal doesn't make one tougher. For example, if you damage captain america, he can heal faster. But if you KILL him, he can't come back to life just because he can heal faster.

4). There is NO indication of captain America being able to CATCH a bullet. He may have dodged a bullet, but compared to Ozymandias in the comics dodging and timing bullets fired from an army of assasins, and catching bullets in the movie, what Captain America did is NOTHING.

5). Captain America can curl 500 lbs (not "effortelessly" like you say). So what???? He would be punched 30 times before he knows what's going on by a "faster than a bullet" Ozymandias!!! HAHAHA.

6). Captain America never beat anyone who has "superhuman" powers at the same lvl with Ozymandias. He never "beat" wolverine. Wolverine just let him self get punched and he wasn't hurt at all. Captain America beats the hell outta criminals, yea, but Rorschach does the exact same thing, and so does the comedian. Yet they get pawned by Ozymandias.

7) To say that Captain America can take out the entire Minutemen and Crimebusters at the same time is not just ridiculous, It's ABSURD.

Don't even think about saying that in public cauz youre gonna get victamized.

I can list at least 2 other characters in the minuteman and crimebusters that can top Captain America, if you wanna hear em, but I dont wanna go off topic too much.

When captain America recovered from a bullet wound, he had outside help too.

Again, Captain america dodged a bullet, big deal. Compared to Ozymandias dodging mutiple bullets fired by multiple assasins at the same time, and CATCHING bullets, Captain America doesn't stand a chance.

In the scene in Watchman, in slow motion, we actually see Ozymandias RUNNING faster than a bullet ( slow motion ). So, Captain America has better endurance, but in terms of short explosive movements, Ozymandias tops him by far in terms of speed.

Also, there is no proof that the Comedian was drunk, so you cannot just assume that.

I WILL STATE THIS ONE MORE TIME. There is no proof that the Comedian got weaker by a large margin over the years. Don't forget he does not have the same normal life routine as normal people. Actually it was stated that he trained extremely hard over the years. Even at the time of his death, he was stated to have "the most refined physic" that the doctors have ever seen, and was stated to have "incredible and near impossible muscles for his age."

One more thing, it's against the forums rules here to double post, so I'm gonna have to report you on that if you do it again.

Last but not least, watch your language. I'm giving you one more chance before I report you for that too to the moderators, which can lead to you getting banned.......

Cap FTW easily win. Ozy only stat that is better is his genius intellect which imo is not in the feild of fighting ,more like inventing shit. Anyway it's not going to help him against a very experienced fighter who is one of the best tacticians in the MU.

Originally posted by Etrigan
Ozymandias from Watchmen fights the Captain in a large room with plenty of place to improvise and lots of furniture and objects lying around.

Both men have 1 hour prep.

So, a peak intelligence human who is skilled physically, versus a peak physical human who is smart as well.

H2H, weapons and prep allowed. Who wins?

This would be a great fight. But Ozyman will be the victor more times than not. Catching a bullet>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything Cap has done.

Hell, that is Bruce Leroy type stuff (The GLOW).

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
In terms of technique, Captain Marvel has the advantage over Ozymandias.

wat?

Wrong.

I didn't read any of those posts.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
You guys must be incredibly tired of hearing.

How many times do I have to repeat the words "hand to hand combat?" So STOP mentioning Captain America's shield for God's sake, cauz we are talking ONLY about hand to hand combat. So don't go telling me :" oh, but captain america can block bullets with his shield!" Geez, PAY ATTENTION.
The shield has has nothing to do with Captain America DODGING bullets, which he's done ROUTINELY.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
Also, don't tell people they don't know what they are talking about. I'm sure everyone here usually have a pretty good understanding of the comics. Let's stick to the topic, and not tell each other things like :" Oh you don't know crap about captain america.'
Every scan I posted from the respect thread trumps your claims that Captain America couldn't dodge bullets and wasn't as strong or as fast as Ozymandias. Every scan shows Captain America performing much better than anything we've seen from either version of Ozymandias, those aren't even his best feats. If you're not ignorant of Captain America, then you're too wet off of Ozymandias to be objective.

Adrian Veidt is German. Captain America has built a career early on by beating the crap out of Germans, superhuman or not.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
Cauz I do as a matter of fact, and I can prove that by describing to you every single appearance and enemy Captain America faced and describe to you the encounters.
Impressive. Hurray for Google, eh?

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
Ok, here are some things that Ozymandias REALLY did.
1) Kicking Night Owl who was stated to be over 250 pounds, and sending him flying at least 40 feet. So in terms of strength, Cap may have an advantage, but only a slight one.
None of that puts them in Captain America's league.

1) Where was it stated that Nite-Owl was 250lbs? It's not too farfetched, but where's the proof of your claim? In the movie, Ozymandias kicked him a good distance; I posted a scan of Cap punching a crazed Wolverine over a good distance AND through a car. Try again.
Originally posted by kdonggyu94
2). Even in the comics, when Ozymandias was surrounded by up to 10 guys with guns firing at him at the same time, he managed to time, forsee, and observe the path of every single bullet fired, and dodge them all. He then closed the distance and broke the neck of just about every single assasin there, and only one of the assasins had time to reload before getting ripped into pieces by Ozymandias.
2) I don't remember Ozymandias being surrounded by 10 assassins in the comic. I don't even remember that in the movie. Back that claim up with scans, if you can. The scans I posted show Cap beating the crap out of several armed men after either blocking their shots or completely dodging them. Again, dodging bullets is not something new to Captain America, and it's a sure hell of a lot smarter than catching bullets.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
3). Don't tell me that Rorschach isn't strong. He managed to best more than 10 armed policeman barehanded. He dominated every single prison he went to. He beat up any hoodlum/gangster that crossed his path. When he was a kid he would kill adults in the most violent ways you can imagine. He jumpted from the roofs of buildings onto the roofs of other buildings, much like spiderman. Yea, there is no proof that he had superhuman powers, but he demonstrated enough power to put him in the very peak of the human body potential.
3)

hysterical

Jumping off rooftops is the litmus test for being a superhero. Even the Tick knows that. Ordinary people jump off rooftops. Are you going to tell me someone like Jackie Chan is at the very peak of human potential too?

Rorschach jumping across rooftops, wearing a mask, and beating up random thugs are the minimal requirements of vigilantism... that doesn't put him anywhere near Cap's (or Spider-Man's) league. He was strong for little guy, but it was his skill that allowed him to fight off a few police officer in the movie.... and he lost that fight, remember?

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
Night Owl beat the tar out of every single person he faced (even many super villains). He was an excellent combatant too.
Nite-Owl beat many supervillains, huh? Care to name them, and describe their abilities in detail? I'll wait...

.....

Moloch was the only identified villain in the series that we know anything about; he used a magic gimmick and weapons during his criminal exploits.... and from what I remember, he retired before Nite-Owl II came around. At best, he beat the crap out of cannon-fodder unskilled street thugs and prisoners. Nowhere in the Watchmen movie or comic did he kick the crap out of someone with actual fighting skills.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
Right, I agree with you that Captain America can do that easily. yea, he can probably beat up any human he wants. I would also say that he should be able to take Night Owl and Rorschach at the same time.

BUT, if you look at how easily Ozymandias annihilated Rorschach and Night Owl, you will be amazed. (unless you look at it from a biased point of view). I DOUBT captain america can do that.
Rorschach, Nite-Owl, and Ozymandias were good.... but not Captain America good. Of the Watchmen cast (sans Dr. Manhattan) Ozymandias was the fastest and the Comedian was the strongest. Considering the circumstances in each of their two fights (prime Comedian vs. young Ozymandias; old Comedian vs. prime Ozymandias), which of the two was the better fighter is debateable. Neither has any showings that put them above or at Cap's level.

As I've said earlier, Captain America would have manhandled everyone on the Crimebusters and the Minutemen (who weren't all that impressive) rosters at the same time except for Dr. Manhattan.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
Again, Captain America is only a human body pushed to its very limits. He can heal 5 times faster than most humans, but that's not gonna prevent him from getting KILLED. In other words, the ability to heal doesn't make one tougher. For example, if you damage captain america, he can heal faster. But if you KILL him, he can't come back to life just because he can heal faster.
NEWSFLASH: Ozymandias can die too.

I don't recall any mention of Veidt possessing a healing factor either. That already gives Cap a clear advantage. So not only does Cap heal much faster than Ozymandias, but he's also stronger, faster, more durable, and a better fighter.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
4). There is NO indication of captain America being able to CATCH a bullet. He may have dodged a bullet, but compared to Ozymandias in the comics dodging and timing bullets fired from an army of assasins, and catching bullets in the movie, what Captain America did is NOTHING.

Again, Captain america dodged a bullet, big deal. Compared to Ozymandias dodging mutiple bullets fired by multiple assasins at the same time, and CATCHING bullets, Captain America doesn't stand a chance.
4) Captain America is smart enough to know that it's stupid to try and catch a bullet, but catching his own shield every time he throws it is proof enough that he has the speed needed to pull it off (and yes, it does move that fast). He routinely dodges barrages of gunfire, energy blasts, and explosions.

Comic Ozymandias dodged fire from a lone gunman, and caught ONE bullet ONCE. He tried catching the bullet because he obviously couldn't dodge it in time, and was amazed himself that he managed to pull it off. He took damage to his hands, and played dead in order to make Silk Spectre II drop her guard and disarm her. WOW........
Hyped-up movie Ozymandias didn't do anything that Cap hasn't already done hundreds of times before.


Originally posted by kdonggyu94
5). Captain America can curl 500 lbs (not "effortelessly" like you say). So what???? He would be punched 30 times before he knows what's going on by a "faster than a bullet" Ozymandias!!! HAHAHA.
5) Captain America (without the benefit of the Super Soldier Serum) was curling 500 pounds while carrying on a full conversation with Beast. Ozymandias doesn't have any strength feats to match anything like that. Before you go ape-shit again about Ozy knocking Rorschach and Nite-Owl around like rag-dolls, explain how this is any more impressive than Captain America punching mind-warped Wolverine through a car, knocking around entire platoons, or kicking the crap out of actual superhumans. Last I checked, Doc Manhattan was the only superhuman around in the Watchmen universe, and Ozy sure as hell couldn't put him down even with his machines and diabolical plans.
Originally posted by kdonggyu94
6). Captain America never beat anyone who has "superhuman" powers at the same lvl with Ozymandias. He never "beat" wolverine. Wolverine just let him self get punched and he wasn't hurt at all. Captain America beats the hell outta criminals, yea, but Rorschach does the exact same thing, and so does the comedian. Yet they get pawned by Ozymandias.
6) Of the top of my head, Captain America has beaten and/or stalemated the Red Skull, Crossbones, Taskmaster, Batroc the Leaper, Spider-Man, Scorpion, US Agent, Wolverine, The Punisher, Black Panther, The Wrecking Crew, Namor, Rhino, Daredevil, Lady Deathstrike, the Absorbing Man, Kree soldiers, and Skrull warriors on top of the countless soldiers, mercenaries, and street thugs he casually punks every other day.

Ozymandias beat Nite-Owl and Rorschach, who built their reputations beating up on common street thug criminals. The Comedian was so good, he was commissioned by the American government to carry out missions on domestic soil and overseas for decades (something Cap does whenever he's not smacking around real supervillains). He was killed past his prime (he was even shown abusing alcohol shortly before his death in Moloch's flashback) by a still relatively youthful Ozymandias. It's impressive, but not impressive enough.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
7) To say that Captain America can take out the entire Minutemen and Crimebusters at the same time is not just ridiculous, It's ABSURD.

Don't even think about saying that in public cauz youre gonna get victamized.

I can list at least 2 other characters in the minuteman and crimebusters that can top Captain America, if you wanna hear em, but I dont wanna go off topic too much.

7) The Minutemen in the Watchmen series were a joke. Only the Comedian (strong and violent), the original Nite-Owl (a good boxer), and Hooded Justice (freakishly strong) counted for anything.The original Silk Spectre was a publicity stunt that horny criminals threw themselves at. Dollar Bill got his cape caught in a revolving door and was shot to death trying to stop a bank heist. Captain Metropolis was a weak-willed chump. Mothman was a typical bored rich kid who thought fighting crime would be fun and games, who soon afterward drowned the harsh realities of crimefighting in alcohol. The Silhoutte was killed by a lone gunman out for revenge against her. At best, they're a warm-up for Captain America.

The Crimebusters (minus Dr. Manhattan) are much better by comparison, but still don't have the feats to pose much of a threat to Cap.

I said so in public and was called a jerk and a dookie-head by unenlightened Watchmen geeks choking on their on own tears.
Originally posted by kdonggyu94
When captain America recovered from a bullet wound, he had outside help too.
He was rushed to the emergency room, where he was pronounced dead. It's amazing that he survived, but it's miraculous that he made a full recovery instead of winding up brain-dead.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
In the scene in Watchman, in slow motion, we actually see Ozymandias RUNNING faster than a bullet ( slow motion ). So, Captain America has better endurance, but in terms of short explosive movements, Ozymandias tops him by far in terms of speed.
Show us this scene. I don't remember any scene in either the comic or the movie in which he outruns a bullet.

Cap was fast enough to keep up with guys like Spider-Man, Wolverine, Daredevil, Beast, Batroc, and the Scorpion. I suppose you think Ozymandias is on their level as well, despite the lack of proof.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
I WILL STATE THIS ONE MORE TIME. There is no proof that the Comedian got weaker by a large margin over the years. Don't forget he does not have the same normal life routine as normal people. Actually it was stated that he trained extremely hard over the years. Even at the time of his death, he was stated to have "the most refined physic" that the doctors have ever seen, and was stated to have "incredible and near impossible muscles for his age."
Scans or clips to back that up? Or are you just speculating again?

"incredible and near impossible muscles FOR HIS AGE." actually supports my argument for past-prime Comedian, anyhow.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
One more thing, it's against the forums rules here to double post, so I'm gonna have to report you on that if you do it again.

Last but not least, watch your language. I'm giving you one more chance before I report you for that too to the moderators, which can lead to you getting banned.......
hysterical


I laugh at you.

Captain America ftw. An hour of prep is won't do Veidt much good, and he's definitely not going to drop Rogers.

Captain America is seriously underated, Mr Rogers would send any non-superhuman that tried to tangle in a fist fight with him out in a bodybag, EVERY SINGLE non-superhuman would get their asses handed to them against his physical dominance

he's as strong and as fast and as durable as any human being could ever be, hes at the peak

Captain America would school either version of Ozymandias. Cap beats better people then him in just about every comic he appears in.

Originally posted by Blanket
I didn't read any of those posts.

Yep, nice try, Eternal Idol. I gotta admit you make some good points, but when it comes to small details you "twist" the truth often.

First of all, it's against forum rules to post scams, (which you did and tried to encourage me into doing). So if you wanna prove yourself right, do it another way. So, stop telling me to "post scams to support my claim", cauz thats not allowed here in forum. or do i have to report you again?

Second of all, it's only your opinion that you disproved me. Lol, I'm sure there will be people that will side with you, but there will be people that side with me too. So, might wanna take down that self-esteem a bit.......

Third of all, you ask me where I can give you the evidence that ozymandias was faster than a bullet. THE MOVIE.

Fourth of all, er, Captain America wasn't "keeping up" exactly with Wolverine and Daredevil. Again, he punched Wolverine as hard as he could and Wolverine went into a car, yea, but he didn't suffer any injuries. He might have seemed like he was in pain, but he wasn't "hurt". Wolverine wasn't even being serious.

Fiffth of all, you say Captain America has "stalemated" with people like spiderman and daredevil. NO HE HASNT. Depends on how you define stalemate. If you mean stalemate as in " keeping your skin from ripped off", then yea, but if you mean stalemate as in "literally tie", then no Captain America was no way tied with them. All he could do was run, and put up a struggle, but he wasn't even close to being a threat.

Again, I'm talking about hand to hand combat, so maybe Captain America did beat stronger people, but if he was using a bunch of special equipments, then don't use those as your evidence.

6th of all, stop mentioning captain america's sheild for gods sake, we're talking about barehanded combat.

7th of all, you obviously don't know Ozymandias well. Go read the comics.

8th of all, I said Rorschach was jumping from rooftops to other rooftops, not he was jumping "down from" rooftops. Stop changing little words around.

Lol, I'd like to see you jump from buildings to buildings that are 30 feet apart, and , fall to a miserable and shameful death.....

9th of all, Ozymandias is the smartest man in the world, so in one hour of prep time I'm SURE he will figure out something.

10th of all,again, Captain America would get punched 30 times by someone who's faster than a bullet, before he even knows what's going on....

11th of all, Ozymandias has on numerous occasions proved himself to be superior to Wolverine in terms of speed. At least in dodging attacks.

Again, you're breaking a forum rule by posting movie scans.

12th of all, what in the hevenly father's name does being German have ANYTHING to do with fighting????????

Last but not least, you are biased. Everytime Ozymandias does something you call it luck, but everytime captain america does something you call it skill..... You also GREATLY exagerate Captain America's feats.

We all have our personal likes and dislikes, so respect people for who they are.

Also, do you have a sort of a fetish for double posting? Seriously dude....

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
*semantics*
So instead of addressing my challenges to your claims, you're going to go on a long-winded rant about nothing? All you did there was twist my words around and go off on tangents without offering any support for your claims.

Now I don't know whether you're trolling or just delusional.

kdonggyu94, we don't use movies or cartoons as proof here in the vs forum. This thread was made in Feb. 2006, 3 years before the movie. The graphic novel is the only proof which can be used.

@ the new guy eerban


okay these are just feats that surpasses veidt




bullet dodging agility reaction:
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/capspeed1pn6.jpg/
http://img156.imageshack.us/i/s1dz7.jpg/

can see bullets:

http://img407.imageshack.us/i/capdamanta2.jpg/

strength
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/af-02-05.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/CaptainAmerica-Annual12-1993-TheBat.jpg


by the way cap has tossed a full grown man into the ocean with one arm while struggling against him... distance fair to say was at least over 50 yrds.

cap wins. this would be like a training exercise to him. also since when has it been against the rules to post scans, is this new?

Originally posted by Raptor22
also since when has it been against the rules to post scans, is this new? What? All we ask is that scans are thumbnails or links. Full images tend to slow down the thread page when it's loading.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_CapCW1.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_CapCW2.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_CapCW3.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_CapCW4.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_CapCW5.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_CapCW6.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_CapCW7.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_CapCW8.jpg

thanks bada. the question was basicaly in response to kdonggy's comments about posting scans being against forum rules.

What I thought Eternal Idol asked me to do was to post videos scans (since he was talking about a video of captain America and Wolverine), and yea, full image pictures that will slow down the page. (like the moderator said).

That's what I thought he meant, so sorry about the confusion.

And now that I know that we aren't talking about the movie Ozymandias. hmm, this does make a difference.

Oh yea and you guys wanted links? I will try and find some. But it might take a while since I am not allowed to use evidence from the movie..........

This discussion is SO STUPID
I could simply creat my own website and use photoshop to make a bunch of pictures of Ozymandias beating Captain America up.
Scamming is SO STUPID
And as far as the discussion goes, comic cap >comic ozy
As for comic cap vs movie Ozy, i don't know, really

Originally posted by sirzang
This discussion is SO STUPID
I could simply creat my own website and use photoshop to make a bunch of pictures of Ozymandias beating Captain America up.
Scamming is SO STUPID

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh180/porters54/016-6.jpg

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
What I thought Eternal Idol asked me to do was to post videos scans (since he was talking about a video of captain America and Wolverine), and yea, full image pictures that will slow down the page. (like the moderator said).

That's what I thought he meant, so sorry about the confusion.

And now that I know that we aren't talking about the movie Ozymandias. hmm, this does make a difference.

Oh yea and you guys wanted links? I will try and find some. But it might take a while since I am not allowed to use evidence from the movie.......... That's because you kept bringing up the movie. Your post even said movie only.Originally posted by sirzang
This discussion is SO STUPID
I could simply creat my own website and use photoshop to make a bunch of pictures of Ozymandias beating Captain America up.
Scamming is SO STUPID
And as far as the discussion goes, comic cap >comic ozy
As for comic cap vs movie Ozy, i don't know, really How nice, you conjured an imaginary friend to help your debate.

i might actually snap..eer

lol

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i might actually snap..eer I don't believe you...biscuits

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
@ the new guy eerban


okay these are just feats that surpasses veidt




bullet dodging agility reaction:
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/capspeed1pn6.jpg/
aim dodging. the first shots missed. It was coincidence that when the shield got there the next shots were going to hit. Impressive. But not as impressive as catching bullets. I think Ozyman has proven he has super human strength too. He's at least proven strong enough to hurt Cap with strikes which is all that matters. Also it takes at least a ton of force just exerted on the fingers to catch a bullet. Multiplying this by several times and Ozy is at least a 5 tonner.

Plus you underestimate Ozy's prep here. So even if Cap would beat him in a straight up fight he won't here because of the prep time.

Nice job h1a8, you just owned them pretty bad right there.
Ozymandias is literally the smartest man in the world, so in one hour prep, he would almost definitely defeat Captain America.

Originally posted by kdonggyu94
I am tired of hearing a lot of the things mentioned above, so I hope what I have to say next will end this once and for all.........

I am talking STRICTLY AND ONLY about Ozymandias from the Watchman movie here.

Ozymandias wins, dont worry, I will tell you why.

Ozymandias has demonstrated on numerous occasions superhuman strength, superhuman reflexes and superhuman intelligence.
Ozymandias CAUGHT A BULLET...... HE CAUGHT A BULLET, and he DODGED LIKE TEN MORE BULLETS......

Ladies and Gentleman, lets stop pretending that this is not a big deal. Let's also stop trying to take away credit from Ozymandias.

It doesn't matter if you Ozymandias hatters say things like :" oh, but that was just lucky!!" I'm sorry, but when you catch something as fast as a bullet aimed at you, you usually aren't just "lucky"..... You need superhuman speed and reflexes to do that.

Some more eveidence to prove that Ozymandias wasn't just lucky................ Number one, he has on numerous occasions dodged bullets. Number two, he displayed superhuman speed in all his fights.

Has it ever occured to you Ozymandias haters that maybe it wasn't JUST luck?? Has it ever occured to you guys that maybe, just maybe, that Ozymandias caught the bullet because he had superhuman senses?

Ok, second of all, Ozymandias has on numerous occasions demonstrated superhuman strength. He kicked a man and sent him flying more than 20 feet across the room. He took a gigantic weapon in Watchman and smashed a guy and sent him flying for like 7 seconds before he fell....

He beat the tar out of Rorschach and Night Owl at the same time, two of the best fighters of their era, like they were 2 infants............ Even though Rorschach has shown the ability to hold his own against more than 20 armed and trained police officers attacking him at the same time..........

He also was able to beat the tar out of the comedian, who was stated to be superior to 99 percent of average humans, even though Comedian was a 60 year old man. Yep, the Comedian is actually in better physical shape then 99 percent of the human race, better than people who were 20 or 30 years younger than him.

Yea, I know the comedian was old, but, actually, contrary to popular belief, the comedian didn't get significantly weaker over the years, due to his intense combat training.

Captain America, on the otherhand, is NOT superhuman. He is simply a human body that is pushed to its very limits.

That enables him to run a mile in 1 minute and 10 seconds, and regenerate from wounds faster than a normal human. But, THERE IS NO WAY, I REPEAT, NO WAY, THAT CAPTAIN AMERICAN CAN SEE OR EVADE BULLETS, LET ALONG CATCH ONE.

I have seen Captain America at his fastest. At his fastest, he was able to run the mile in a little bit more than a minute.

But use your common sense guys, a bullet would finish a mile in less than 7 seconds, and Ozymandias proved himself to be far faster than a bullet.

In fact, in Watchman when they put Ozymandias and the bullets in slow motion, we can actually see him outrunning those bullets.

Captain America at the peak of his strength was able to barely lift a small car a few feet from the ground. Barely. Now, for a normal human, that is amazing. But compared to Ozymandias taking out the best fighters of his time, dodging and catching bullets, and kicking people and sending them flying like 30 feet across the room, Captain America isn't that amazing.

One more argument I here from Captain America fans is that : " oh, but captain america would have better techniques.... blablabla"
I will not deny the fact that captain america has good techniques.

But, Rorschach was one of the best street brawlers of all time when it comes to street brawls and gangfighting. So was night Owl. They both demonstrated enough skill to fight of multiple trained armed forces of gans and policemen. They both dominated every single street fight there was, and they both dominated the prison fights in jail.

BUT, RORSCHACH AND NIGHT OWL BOTH GOT PAWNED AROUND BY OZYMANDIAS LIKE THEY WERE 2 INFANTS!!!!!!!!!

So, technique does help, but when someone outnumbers you in the speed of movements by like 100 times, (which in this case is true), techniques won't help out Captain America much here.....

So, what I am trying to say here is....... In terms of strength, they are more or less equal. In terms of technique, Captain Marvel has the advantage over Ozymandias. But, fact is, the difference between their speed is just too big.

If Ozymandias could see bullets comming at him and dodge and catch them, it would only make sense if he could see Captain America's movements, and dodge him too, right?

Last but not least, Ozymandias is officially and literally, "the smartest man in the world." He has on numerous occasions demonstrated his intelligence. He was able to manipulate the genes of people, outwit all the other minutemen and the police officers, creat an alien monster, invent deadly weapons, outsmart the government, etc............. Captain America is smart too, but they are not in the same league.

Ozymandia's intelligence would help him out certainly.

Now, guys, please don't get mad at me. It's not that I don't like Captain America..... I LIKE him, and I think he is an ultra cool guy, but facts are facts.

Again, I am talking STRICTLY AND ONLY about the Ozymandias from the movie Watchman.

Hope this helped, and you are all welcomed to disagree with me anytime. Cap.A ftw

Eternal Idol your scans are stupid and unrelated to the topic. Sorry bud, we know that u tried hard but throwing a shield and blocking a bullet with it by coincidence aint that impressive at all. Throwing a guy into the ocean..................LOL?????????????? Why the hell u even using that as an argument?????

Like h1a8 said before, Ozy is strong enough to hurt cap. If he can do that, than his speed would come into play.

Also the prep time... Cap aint as smart as Ozy

Originally posted by BattleMage
Cap.A ftw And you...don't push your luck either. sneer You've been under surveillance since you've arrived. uhuh




biscuits

Originally posted by icecream1991
Eternal Idol your scans are stupid and unrelated to the topic. Sorry bud, we know that u tried hard but throwing a shield and blocking a bullet with it by coincidence aint that impressive at all. Throwing a guy into the ocean..................LOL?????????????? Why the hell u even using that as an argument?????

Like h1a8 said before, Ozy is strong enough to hurt cap. If he can do that, than his speed would come into play.

Also the prep time... Cap aint as smart as Ozy

banned


Captain America ftw.

Ozymandias FTW.

Eternal idol : You try to make ur self seem like u no wat ur talking about and u post scans that seem right but when I start looking It those scans closely i realize none of them matches ozymandia's feeats.

Captain America

Originally posted by chunjacktao
Ozymandias FTW.

Eternal idol : You try to make ur self seem like u no wat ur talking about and u post scans that seem right but when I start looking It those scans closely i realize none of them matches ozymandia's feeats. Oh stfu

captain america ftw.
okay so ozymandias can catch bullets... cap dodged a guy with a gun from oh... about 10 feet away firing continuously...
When encircled by a gang.. he was so fast... even they he was completely surrounded.. it was like he vanished... before their eyes.. ... fast enough to... disappear...
he has shown constantly that he has taken on some of the best fighters in marvel:
daredevil, taskmaster, black panther, beast.. and won...

btw.. as a measure of caps durability...
hes taken hits from iron man during civil war... to the face...
spidey...
but i just reread the isuse.. but look up captain america 423.. he fights a submariner.. (namor) who is trying to kill captain america... and after a severe pummeling, leaves to deal with nazis... and is surprised that cap is up and by his side...

all in all... ozymandias's best feats in the movie is the bullet catch and beating two guys that are... like punisher level in skills... whereas caps best feats has him fighting mutants, and demigods...


cap wins.

With the shield I`d say Cap got an edge.

Without it it is very close. IMO Ozzy got a very slight advantage, but if it turns into a drawn out battle Cap`s stamina will tip it in his favor.

Some of you are bugging on here talking about just because Ozymanidus caught a bullet that he can hang with Captain America? Captain America is Ozymandius superior in every way with exception to possibly intelligence. Captain America has banged with the best of them and hung or beat super heros and villians on a regular basis. This Ozymandius caught a bullet thing is hilarious. Cap can bench press 1200 LBs, is known to be the best h2h combat fighter in the Marvel Universe AND he never tires. While Ozymandius is a peak human, he is no way on Caps level. Cap has dodged bullets like it was nothing multiple times at once. Ozymandius would get mopped up. Ozy and Batman may be a toss up h2h but Cap? No way Ozy wins comic or movie version.

Seriously Cap wrecks this clown.

Cap defeats guys like Wrecker, Rhino, Hyde, Super Scrulls, enhanced super men, enhanced animals, to even enhanced aliens.

And has had the upper had on bullet timers like Daredevil, to even Danny Rand Ironfist.

But this guy because he caught a bullet and fought lesser then top combatants is somehow going to defeat Cap. LOL


Oh wait this guy fought Rorschach. That certainly seals the deal.

Caught a bullet ha! What a wussy feat. I like to see Ozy match these feats.

Cap moves faster then bullets.(ozy boy can't touch this feat)

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9535/avgrs6916fv7.jpg

Cap plays in lasers under zero gravity again Ozy has nothing on Cap.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/329/avengersv123516rougherpv4.jpg/

Cap blocking multiple shots in different areas.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/458/avengersv300506mm5.jpg/

Again blocked two simultaneous beams shot at him with a metal glove.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/474/avengers17004yb3.jpg/


Daredevil has batted away multiple bullets and even he stated Cap is faster. Ironfist himself has stated he's never seen someone with Cap's speed and strength.

Cap wins this hard and then goes make himself a sandwich.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Caught a bullet ha! What a wussy feat. I like to see Ozy match these feats.

Cap moves faster then bullets.(ozy boy can't touch this feat)

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9535/avgrs6916fv7.jpg

Cap plays in lasers under zero gravity again Ozy has nothing on Cap.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/329/avengersv123516rougherpv4.jpg/

Cap blocking multiple shots in different areas.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/458/avengersv300506mm5.jpg/

Again blocked two simultaneous beams shot at him with a metal glove.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/474/avengers17004yb3.jpg/


Daredevil has batted away multiple bullets and even he stated Cap is faster. Ironfist himself has stated he's never seen someone with Cap's speed and strength.

Cap wins this hard and then goes make himself a sandwich.

I don't think Cap can catch a bullet.
Your first scan doesn't show Cap is faster than a bullet. Clearly, either the writer had the first shots missed (since a revolver can't fire a second bullet before the first bullet hits a 30ft or less target) or simply it was just to show Cap's quickness in reacting when Red Skull turn to fire. Meaning, in no way did the writer intent for Cap to run faster than a bullet. If you still disagree, then you have to accept that the feat is PIS. No where in Caps history has he shown the running speed to outrun a bullet. That would make Cap about the speed of sound, which is ridiculous.

The other feats are just aim dodging or aim blocking. All street leveler characters have dodged lasers and bullets through aim dodging. See how cap is looking that the device that is pointed towards him to fire.

If the first shots missed, where are the sound effects for the second round of shots?

Captain America ftw.

Ozymandias might give him a fight, but I don't see him winning even 1/10.

Cap will put his a$$ in a coma!

Originally posted by Silent Master
If the first shots missed, where are the sound effects for the second round of shots? comics don't have sound.

Ozy will get his head kicked in so hard it wouldn't be funny, he is no match for Cap or anybody else who's in Caps league. Ozy is more like Daredevil a weaker version if even that, hell Black Widow will kick Ozy a$$.

Watchmen isn't about feats. Cap wins.

Daredevil would whup out Ozy too. People sleep on Dare Devil but I've read comics as a kid where he fought head up and beat Sabre Tooth, went toe to toe with Wolverrine and beat Spider Man. Ozy beat up on guys that wasn't even on the level of guys Captain America or Dare Devil fought.

Originally posted by h1a8
comics don't have sound.

You might want to take another look at the scan.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't think Cap can catch a bullet.
Your first scan doesn't show Cap is faster than a bullet. Clearly, either the writer had the first shots missed (since a revolver can't fire a second bullet before the first bullet hits a 30ft or less target) or simply it was just to show Cap's quickness in reacting when Red Skull turn to fire. Meaning, in no way did the writer intent for Cap to run faster than a bullet. If you still disagree, then you have to accept that the feat is PIS. No where in Caps history has he shown the running speed to outrun a bullet. That would make Cap about the speed of sound, which is ridiculous.

The other feats are just aim dodging or aim blocking. All street leveler characters have dodged lasers and bullets through aim dodging. See how cap is looking that the device that is pointed towards him to fire.

And yet the scan clearly shows 3 bullets fired in one panel regardles of the type of gun. So you logic is defeated by one small panel in itself.


Catching a bullet is also ridiculous by real life logic, so your logic here is clearly moot again and Cap has a feat that is superior regardless of what you think. Seriously dodging 14 beams under "zero" gravity and all of them in a tight spot and you claim he aim dodged all of them.

You can claim he aim dodged one of the laser beams but all of them and your see your arguing goes out the window.

In one of the scans he blocked a simultaneous fired beams with his metal gauntlet you can't aim block that....LOL

Or did you miss the scene with Steve blocking multiple blasts with his shield?

That's three laser time scenes with one superior bullet time scene compare to Ozy one little lame bullet catch.

Cap's bullet time scene and laser time scenes wreck his weak sauce bullet catch.

Originally posted by h1a8



Prove it show me him lifting 5 tons.

H1 wont prove a dam thing he said. Like always he will dodge the request for evidence or out right ignore them.

Did kdonggyu94 post a novel for us? HAHAHAHAHA
Cap buddy.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Ozy's best bet is to go for a quick win and hope that Cap left his shield at home. If the fight goes too long Captain America's superhuman endurance will be the deciding factor. But Captain America is in for a damn good fight, Ozy might even gain the upper hand for a moment but I doubt he'll win.
Cap 8/10 But you still said "Cap 8/10" after all that?

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
By feats alone, Cap. America should win no prob Obviously, Cap wins.

The funny thing is that Ozy admitted that he wasn't sure if him catching a bullet would work. He got lucky. Cap dodges bullets, lasers and other things thrown at him like nothing. I understand people like Ozymandius but it's obviously Cap is in another league than Ozy.

Originally posted by BattleMage
But you still said "Cap 8/10" after all that?
Lol that post is from 2 years ago.

I know I'm waking up an old thread here. But to me its funny how much credit people give the Watchmen characters. I will admit Ozy is impressive. But trying to compare his list of feats to captain america's many decades of feats is really nonsense. I mean seriously look at the big picture. Yeah he beat up two heros at the same time and even beat another hero easily it is impressive. But that is an everyday thing for cap look at how many skilled fighters he has beaten. On top of all that the watchmen series pretty much stands on its own so none of them ever faced any of the DC universe's best fighters. We talking Batman, Lady shiva, Cassandra cain, Karate kid, bronze tiger, Richard Dragon, etc. Now if he would have fought any of them and at least held his own I would give him a better shot at this. But he hasn't so many of this is just speculation.

People speak on his brains yes he is smart. The smartest man in his universe but it once again is a universe where the other great minds of the DC universe don't exist.

People comment on his speed as well what great peak character hasn't had a feat that seems superhuman.

Cap wins 10/10.

Lol well, back in the day, h1a8 was claiming Ozy was a 5 tonner...

The problem for me is comic Ozymandias wasnt as physically impressive as movie Ozymandias, or at least he wasnt shown to be. To me, movie Ozy stands a much better chance against comic Cap than comic Ozy.

Movie Ozy had bulletproof gloves (or something pretty tough), so that detracts a lot from that one feat that he has.

Movie Cap is by all rights inferior to comic Cap, and he would beat the shit out of Movie Ozy.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Movie Cap is by all rights inferior to comic Cap, and he would beat the shit out of Movie Ozy. I highly disagree. Wasn't you one of the posters claiming that fighting skill can only be proven by who you beat and not by stuff like catching bullets or how you beat someone.

IMO movie Ozy would beat movie Cap since he is easily more skilled, much faster, and almost as strong (jumping 30ft and throwing Comedian through highly reinforce glass helps his case)

Originally posted by h1a8
I highly disagree. Wasn't you one of the posters claiming that fighting skill can only be proven by who you beat and not by stuff like catching bullets or how you beat someone.

IMO movie Ozy would beat movie Cap since he is easily more skilled, much faster, and almost as strong (jumping 30ft and throwing Comedian through highly reinforce glass helps his case)

Exactly, and he beat a guy who was at least on his level (Red Skull), plus Hydra troopers wearing armour.

Oh, and he fought a legit god.

Ozy's opponents weren't on his level.

Originally posted by h1a8
I highly disagree. Wasn't you one of the posters claiming that fighting skill can only be proven by who you beat and not by stuff like catching bullets or how you beat someone.

IMO movie Ozy would beat movie Cap since he is easily more skilled, much faster, and almost as strong (jumping 30ft and throwing Comedian through highly reinforce glass helps his case)

Movie Cap was throwing/knocking people 10-20 feet through the air, running down moving cars and lifted a motorcycle w/3 people on it over his head.

Not to mention that he also tanked hits that could dent stell and a laser blast that was destroying cars.

He also fought Loki, who had vastly superior reflexes and reaction time to anybody in Watchmen.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Exactly, and he beat a guy who was at least on his level (Red Skull), plus Hydra troopers wearing armour.

Oh, and he fought a legit god.

Ozy's opponents weren't on his level. Red skull wasn't A skilled. He was just enhanced. Hydra troopers weren't skilled either, and neither was the legit god. IMO its how you perform that proves your skill and not who you beat, which some here are assuming.

Originally posted by KingD19
He also fought Loki, who had vastly superior reflexes and reaction time to anybody in Watchmen. Yet Loki didn't use those reflexes when fighting Cap. Again it's how you win and not who you fight.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Movie Cap was throwing/knocking people 10-20 feet through the air, running down moving cars and lifted a motorcycle w/3 people on it over his head.

Not to mention that he also tanked hits that could dent stell and a laser blast that was destroying cars. Ozy could have easily thrown Comedian 10-20ft too. I'm not saying Ozy was as strong but his skill and h2h speed tips the scales in his favor.

Originally posted by h1a8
Ozy could have easily thrown Comedian 10-20ft too. I'm not saying Ozy was as strong but his skill and h2h speed tips the scales in his favor.

Cap was sending fully armored people flying with punches, kicks and thowing them 10-20 feet with one arm, that is well above Ozy in strength.

As for skill, Cap is seen blocking/dodging and landing hits on pretty much everyone he fights, him not using Kung Fu or Jujitsu etc isn't the same as him not being skilled.

lol

Cap tanked shit that would have killed Ozy. He performed strength feats far beyond Ozy. He was far more agile and faster than Ozy. Literally, the only thing Ozy of note did that Cap didn't was - yes, you guessed it - catch a god damn bullet.

Too bad Steve has incredible feats which shit on every thing else Ozy did.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol

Cap tanked shit that would have killed Ozy. He performed strength feats far beyond Ozy. He was far more agile and faster than Ozy. Literally, the only thing Ozy of note did that Cap didn't was - yes, you guessed it - catch a god damn bullet.

Too bad Steve has incredible feats which shit on every thing else Ozy did. What did he tanked that would have killed Ozy?
He didn't perform strength feats FAR beyond Ozy. Guess how much force it takes to jump 30ft? He wasn't faster in h2h movement speed (running speed is not h2h speed) and not as agile IMO.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Cap was sending fully armored people flying with punches, kicks and thowing them 10-20 feet with one arm, that is well above Ozy in strength.

As for skill, Cap is seen blocking/dodging and landing hits on pretty much everyone he fights, him not using Kung Fu or Jujitsu etc isn't the same as him not being skilled. yet again Ozy can throw people 10-20ft away too.
So it's not WELL above his strength.

Who cares. They were nobodies by your reasoning. Remember?

Lol, wtf? Captain America would punch a hole in Ozymandias' face. Did we watch the same movies?

Originally posted by h1a8
yet again Ozy can throw people 10-20ft away too.
So it's not WELL above his strength.

Who cares. They were nobodies by your reasoning. Remember?

You missed the part about Cap only needing 1 arm to throw them, that and they were fully armored, which means they weighed more than the Comedian did.

Originally posted by h1a8
What did he tanked that would have killed Ozy?
He didn't perform strength feats FAR beyond Ozy. Guess how much force it takes to jump 30ft? He wasn't faster in h2h movement speed (running speed is not h2h speed) and not as agile IMO.

yet again Ozy can throw people 10-20ft away too.
So it's not WELL above his strength.

Who cares. They were nobodies by your reasoning. Remember?

You did see the Avengers, right? The Chitauri weapons were capable of blowing up cars and Cap took them directly to the gut. The guy was tossed out of a bank window and landed face down on the roof of a car, denting it. Cap then just stands up like literally nothing happened.

Nothing Ozy did suggests he could do either of those and survive and if he impossibly did, he'd likely be crippled, bullet catching be damned.

Yes, his strength feats are far above anything Ozy showed and on a consistent basis. Shattering reinforced glass underwater and throwing a man from beneath the depths and past the surface of the water and up and over to the dock is ridiculous. Hell, Cap's blows - capable of denting steel - would likely mess up Ozy just by him attempting to block it.

Cap beat Red Skull, a guy his equal in physical stats, phased Loki with his blows (who is actually bullet proof), and sonned legions of Chitauri, who would have raped the likes of Nite Owl and Rorschach.

The funny thing is that people who don't know who Cap is think the movie version is more powerful because "Cap's only peak human in the comics". Comic book Cap does that kind of shit when he's written low-end.

Cap win.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You did see the Avengers, right? The Chitauri weapons were capable of blowing up cars and Cap took them directly to the gut. The guy was tossed out of a bank window and landed face down on the roof of a car, denting it. Cap then just stands up like literally nothing happened.

Nothing Ozy did suggests he could do either of those and survive and if he impossibly did, he'd likely be crippled, bullet catching be damned.

Yes, his strength feats are far above anything Ozy showed and on a consistent basis. Shattering reinforced glass underwater and throwing a man from beneath the depths and past the surface of the water and up and over to the dock is ridiculous. Hell, Cap's blows - capable of denting steel - would likely mess up Ozy just by him attempting to block it.

Cap beat Red Skull, a guy his equal in physical stats, phased Loki with his blows (who is actually bullet proof), and sonned legions of Chitauri, who would have raped the likes of Nite Owl and Rorschach.

The funny thing is that people who don't know who Cap is think the movie version is more powerful because "Cap's only peak human in the comics". Comic book Cap does that kind of shit when he's written low-end.


you got a gift for convincing people, especially mods, but I won't fall for your tricks (exaggeration and overestimation and using highest feats while claiming averages, taking the sting out of my rebuttal by mentioning it first, etc)

1. Cap is stronger and more durable than Ozy but not by a whole lot. The bullet feat and jumping feat and window feat proves that. No feat you named is beyond the suspension of disbelief for Ozy to be close to doing himself. And no, Ozy was consistently shown with super strength. No contradictions unlike Cap (not killing all the humans he fought with his blows).

2. Some human MA has managed to dent steel with their blows so that's not beyond Ozy.

3. Red skull isn't very skilled Like your reasoning suggests.

4. phased Loki? Thats not a feat. I didn't see any blood. Did Loki ever have a bullet proof scene?

5. The chitauri were not very skilled so that goes that feat. Note: I'm using your same reasoning as you did against Ozy and the bullet proving fighting skill.

6. BS! movie Cap is about equals to comic Cap. Considering low end comic Cap, movie Cap shits on him easily.

Ozy has thrown a 250lb man through reinforced skycraper building glass, jumps 30ft through the air casual as hell, sends clowns flying through the air with casual blows, throws heavy ass throne chair far through the air, catches a freaking bullet, etc.

The thing is, you are only arguing physical stats and not the most important thing of all, SKILL and h2h speed. Ozy is so far skilled than movie Cap it isn't funny. It's only because of Caps physicality that he is able to engage his foes.

Again movie Ozy and movie Cap would be a good fight where Ozy edging him. IMO I don't see how Cap could land a decent blow with a legit bullet timer.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol, wtf? Captain America would punch a hole in Ozymandias' face. Did we watch the same movies? He didn't punch a hole in those humans he fought.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You missed the part about Cap only needing 1 arm to throw them, that and they were fully armored, which means they weighed more than the Comedian did.

Ok so throwing someone a little heavier than Comedian 10ft is not much stronger than throwing Comedian with two arms 20ft. I never said Cap wasnt stronger. I just Lol at you saying far stronger.

Spidey is much stronger than Cap than Cap movie is over Ozy movie yet it is believable that Cap can take Spidey (not by me though).

What real life martial artists have dented steel? I'd like to see some clips.

Originally posted by h1a8
you got a gift for convincing people, especially mods, but I won't fall for your tricks (exaggeration and overestimation and using highest feats while claiming averages, taking the sting out of my rebuttal by mentioning it first, etc)

1. Cap is stronger and more durable than Ozy but not by a whole lot. The bullet feat and jumping feat and window feat proves that. No feat you named is beyond the suspension of disbelief for Ozy to be close to doing himself. And no, Ozy was consistently shown with super strength. No contradictions unlike Cap (not killing all the humans he fought with his blows).

2. Some human MA has managed to dent steel with their blows so that's not beyond Ozy.

3. Red skull isn't very skilled Like your reasoning suggests.

4. phased Loki? Thats not a feat. I didn't see any blood. Did Loki ever have a bullet proof scene?

5. The chitauri were not very skilled so that goes that feat. Note: I'm using your same reasoning as you did against Ozy and the bullet proving fighting skill.

6. BS! movie Cap is about equals to comic Cap. Considering low end comic Cap, movie Cap shits on him easily.

Ozy has thrown a 250lb man through reinforced skycraper building glass, jumps 30ft through the air casual as hell, sends clowns flying through the air with casual blows, throws heavy ass throne chair far through the air, catches a freaking bullet, etc.

The thing is, you are only arguing physical stats and not the most important thing of all, SKILL and h2h speed. Ozy is so far skilled than movie Cap it isn't funny. It's only because of Caps physicality that he is able to engage his foes.

Again movie Ozy and movie Cap would be a good fight where Ozy edging him. IMO I don't see how Cap could land a decent blow with a legit bullet timer.

baka

Thanks, I guess?

1.) So your counter point is tantamount to "nuh uh"? Cap hit people once and they stayed down. The only people who didn't were Loki and the Red Skull, both of whom were superhuman.

2.) So humans have been able to dent bullet proof steel with their bare hands?

3.) He's superhumanly strong, fast, agile, and durable, enough to justify someone incredibly skilled like say, Nolan's Batman, to get raped in hand to hand combat. Ozy isn't skilled enough nor fast enough nor tough enough to prolong in extended combat with either Skull or Cap.

4.) So you didn't watch Avengers, then. Good to know you're up to date with the characters being discussed here seeing as you clearly don't watch the movies being cited. Yes, Loki was very visible phased by Cap's strikes (ie. he didn't no sell them). And yes, Loki no sold bullets completely (ie. he didn't even react to them, unlike Cap's fists and feet). Cap not making him bleed doesn't mean Loki didn't register the blows.

5.) The hell? They were skilled enough to force the likes of Natasha and Clint and Cap to work together to take on scores of them at once, and their weapons are enough to blow up cars. Your "reasoning" makes no sense.

6.) Jesus Christ. facepalm Movie! Cap is about equal to low comic book portrayal Cap. High end comic book Cap would destroy him. How can you possibly add anything to the discussion when you don't even read or watch the source material enough to make a decent argument?

And no, Ozy didn't display enough skill against Rorschach and Nite Owl to justify him hanging with the vastly superior across the board skills of Movie! Cap, let alone Comic Book! Cap, who's even more ridiculous.

Well h1a8 left again, hopefully he went to collect the clips of real life martial artists denting thick pieces of steel like the Red Skull did in the movie.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
baka

Thanks, I guess?

1.) So your counter point is tantamount to "nuh uh"? Cap hit people once and they stayed down. The only people who didn't were Loki and the Red Skull, both of whom were superhuman.

2.) So humans have been able to dent bullet proof steel with their bare hands? not sure about bulletproof steel but yes steel. With strikes humans have dented thin steel before, especially with chi powered strikes. Ozy is mored than skilled to beat movie Cap. And he is faster in h2h. You saying he isn't doesn't mean it is true when it's not. Cap would be lucky to get a hit in. of course I seen the movie. I dont remember loki taking bullets to the face though. And I would have to be dead as hell in order to not have watched the movie. If a character (in a movie) isnt bruised then there is no way to determine how much force in comparison to a bullet was exerted. Hell an ant would register to me, doesn't mean that ant is everywhere of a little kid punching me. they didn't engage them h2h. I seem to remember Natasha being able to engage one physically though, not sure. again this is a blatant lie. Caps lowest showings prove movie Cap will ace his ass easily. Just like Thor's lowest being pathetic. As far as feats, name one feat by high end Cap that shits on movie Cap (not skill feat). And name one low end showing or feat by cap that equals movie Cap at his best. Mr. Exaggerator. of course he did. He engaged the two easily without breaking a sweat, caught a bullet and everything. The bullet catch takes the cake.

Still waiting for the clips of real life martial artists denting thick steel like the Red Skull did.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Well h1a8 left again, hopefully he went to collect the clips of real life martial artists denting thick pieces of steel like the Red Skull did in the movie. I never seen clips but read about it and some of my teachers told me about it. At my best I believe I could have dented a thin sheet of steel. I used to break brick slabs effortlessly and lift 300lb with no problem. Not anymore though.

Originally posted by h1a8
I never seen clips but read about it and some of my teachers told me about it. At my best I believe I could have dented a thin sheet of steel. I used to break brick slabs effortlessly and lift 300lb with no problem. Not anymore though.

IOW, you have no proof.

Any martial arts instructor make grand claims about mystical or super human feats, is a liar.

Maybe those humans didn't explode when Cap punched them...

Because he has that much skill. If anyone holds back against normalbhumans, it would be Cap.

And as for Lokis durability.....didn't he take an exploding arrow to the face? And was still alive (albeit obv injured ) after the hulk had a piece of him.

Yea...he tanked the exploding arrow right before the Hulk scene.

He tanked an exploding arrow to the face, the crash, and Hulk ramming him through a wall fists first from behind unharmed. He then finally got rocked pretty bad by Hulk slamming him back and forth. All in all, Loki is pretty durable, way beyond human.

Originally posted by h1a8
you got a gift for convincing people, especially mods, but I won't fall for your tricks (exaggeration and overestimation and using highest feats while claiming averages, taking the sting out of my rebuttal by mentioning it first, etc)

1. Cap is stronger and more durable than Ozy but not by a whole lot. The bullet feat and jumping feat and window feat proves that. No feat you named is beyond the suspension of disbelief for Ozy to be close to doing himself. And no, Ozy was consistently shown with super strength. No contradictions unlike Cap (not killing all the humans he fought with his blows).

2. Some human MA has managed to dent steel with their blows so that's not beyond Ozy.

3. Red skull isn't very skilled Like your reasoning suggests.

4. phased Loki? Thats not a feat. I didn't see any blood. Did Loki ever have a bullet proof scene?

5. The chitauri were not very skilled so that goes that feat. Note: I'm using your same reasoning as you did against Ozy and the bullet proving fighting skill.

6. BS! movie Cap is about equals to comic Cap. Considering low end comic Cap, movie Cap shits on him easily.

Ozy has thrown a 250lb man through reinforced skycraper building glass, jumps 30ft through the air casual as hell, sends clowns flying through the air with casual blows, throws heavy ass throne chair far through the air, catches a freaking bullet, etc.

The thing is, you are only arguing physical stats and not the most important thing of all, SKILL and h2h speed. Ozy is so far skilled than movie Cap it isn't funny. It's only because of Caps physicality that he is able to engage his foes.

Again movie Ozy and movie Cap would be a good fight where Ozy edging him. IMO I don't see how Cap could land a decent blow with a legit bullet timer.

He didn't punch a hole in those humans he fought.



Ok so throwing someone a little heavier than Comedian 10ft is not much stronger than throwing Comedian with two arms 20ft. I never said Cap wasnt stronger. I just Lol at you saying far stronger.

Spidey is much stronger than Cap than Cap movie is over Ozy movie yet it is believable that Cap can take Spidey (not by me though).

Excuse me?

He's basically saying Ozy wins, even though Cap's feats are far better.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He's basically saying Ozy wins, even though Cap's feats are far better.

Not that.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He's basically saying Ozy wins, even though Cap's feats are far better. Cap beats Ozy but movie Ozy beats movie Cap. Movie Ozy has better skill and h2h speed feats than movie Cap. Get me correct

Originally posted by h1a8
you got a gift for convincing people, especially mods, but I won't fall for your tricks (exaggeration and overestimation and using highest feats while claiming averages, taking the sting out of my rebuttal by mentioning it first, etc)


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/slow-clap-gif.gif

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap beats Ozy but movie Ozy beats movie Cap. Movie Ozy has better skill and h2h speed feats than movie Cap. Get me correct

How is Ozy beating someone that can tank laser blasts and hits that can dent thick steel?

Originally posted by Silent Master
How is Ozy beating someone that can tank laser blasts and hits that can dent thick steel?

Laser blasts =/= punches or kicks
plus that shot was to his armored gut, it didn't hit his skin directly
A wise man once said, "steel don't hit back."
Plus I don't remember CA denting steel. Which scene was this and what movie?

Ozy has similar superhuman strength (within the vicinity), faster h2h speed, and much greater fighting skill than CA.

Look at this scene again



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnGA8uu8T0

You see him kicking Rorshach many feat away, him jumping 30ft with ease, him blocking attacks without looking, him effortlessly schooling both at the same time, him throwing Rorshach easily 20-30ft away, etc.

And don't forget he also caught a freaking bullet for crying out loud.

And in the scene where he fought Comedian he easily caught the fist and stopped a Comedian haymaker. Comedian's punches were shown to produce enough force to break through solid marble, or reinforced concrete.

Also we have the scene where he effortlessly lifts Comedian and throws him 15-10ft through a highly reinforced glass window of a skyscraper.

Cap is stronger and more durable (not by much though)
but Ozy is better skilled, faster h2h speed, and much smarter
thus is the reason I see him slightly edging Cap out (movie versions only)

Originally posted by h1a8
I never seen clips but read about it and some of my teachers told me about it. At my best I believe I could have dented a thin sheet of steel. I used to break brick slabs effortlessly and lift 300lb with no problem. Not anymore though. Lift 300 pounds in what manner? Bench-press? Military? What?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Lift 300 pounds in what manner? Bench-press? Military? What?

benchpress

but I have clean and jerked 225lb with relative ease (was nothing to me) so I assume I can could have clean and jerk 300lb at the time but never tried

Shut up.

Cap wins, even if I am a fan of Ozzy

Originally posted by Mindset
Shut up.

Why do you say not to shut up?
I don't understand
what the hell are eggs?
I don't know anything
We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Cap wins, even if I am a fan of Ozzy

In a comic Ca would probably win
but movie versions is a different story

Originally posted by h1a8
Laser blasts =/= punches or kicks
plus that shot was to his armored gut, it didn't hit his skin directly
A wise man once said, "steel don't hit back."
Plus I don't remember CA denting steel. Which scene was this and what movie?

Ozy has similar superhuman strength (within the vicinity), faster h2h speed, and much greater fighting skill than CA.

Look at this scene again



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnGA8uu8T0

You see him kicking Rorshach many feat away, him jumping 30ft with ease, him blocking attacks without looking, him effortlessly schooling both at the same time, him throwing Rorshach easily 20-30ft away, etc.

And don't forget he also caught a freaking bullet for crying out loud.

And in the scene where he fought Comedian he easily caught the fist and stopped a Comedian haymaker. Comedian's punches were shown to produce enough force to break through solid marble, or reinforced concrete.

Also we have the scene where he effortlessly lifts Comedian and throws him 15-10ft through a highly reinforced glass window of a skyscraper.

Cap is stronger and more durable (not by much though)
but Ozy is better skilled, faster h2h speed, and much smarter
thus is the reason I see him slightly edging Cap out (movie versions only)

Red Skull dented steel with his bare hands and Cap tanked several of his punches and even if Cap was armored, the force needed to destroy cars is still far beyond anything that Ozy tanked in the movie

So again, how does Ozy actually overcome Cap's huge durability edge?

Cap from the film could also run 40-50 mph

"How does Ozy actually overcome Cap's huge durability edge?"

Answer: He doesn't.

Ozy's feats pale in comparison to what Cap did, who would have easily one shot the likes of everyone in Watchman save Dr. Manhattan. God forbid if Cap actually used his shield on him.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
"How does Ozy actually overcome Cap's huge durability edge?"

Answer: He doesn't.

Ozy's feats pale in comparison to what Cap did, who would have easily one shot the likes of everyone in Watchman save Dr. Manhattan. God forbid if Cap actually used his shield on him.

Cap's durability isn't what you making it out to be. In chariots, they were able to blow up cars. Their handweapons were not as powerful. Also Cap wore armor in his gut part of his uniform. Ozy caught a bullet, how does that speak for his durability?

Also, Loki wasn't completely bulletproof. I rewatched the scene and a couple of handgun bullets scared his face. He healed instantly though. Cap did absolutely nothing to him but make his face roll back a little. Not the slightest mark of damage was done to Loki. It was a terrible showing for Cap, not a good one.
When did Cap dent steel? I don't recall seeing that.

Cap didn't throw the man out of the water. He was on the ladder when he threw the man.

Cap's best feats of strength was
1. Punching window under water
2. Jumping high a few times
3. Destroying punching bags (Bruce Lee was notorious for doing that with his kicks)
4. Running about 40mph

Ozy feats are
1. Jumping 30ft easily
2. Throwing Rorchach 20ft easily
3. Kicking Rorshach far away
4. Catching a bullet
5. Catching a fist capable of smashing through solid marble
6. Ramming Comedian's head through solid marble, breaking it in half


Like I said movie Cap was shown stronger and more durable, but not by much. Ozy does more than counter those things with his skill, h2h speed, and intelligence.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
cheers

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap's durability isn't what you making it out to be. In chariots, they were able to blow up cars. Their handweapons were not as powerful. Also Cap wore armor in his gut part of his uniform. Ozy caught a bullet, how does that speak for his durability?

Also, Loki wasn't completely bulletproof. I rewatched the scene and a couple of handgun bullets scared his face. He healed instantly though. Cap did absolutely nothing to him but make his face roll back a little. Not the slightest mark of damage was done to Loki. It was a terrible showing for Cap, not a good one.
When did Cap dent steel? I don't recall seeing that.

Cap didn't throw the man out of the water. He was on the ladder when he threw the man.

Cap's best feats of strength was
1. Punching window under water
2. Jumping high a few times
3. Destroying punching bags (Bruce Lee was notorious for doing that with his kicks)
4. Running about 40mph

Ozy feats are
1. Jumping 30ft easily
2. Throwing Rorchach 20ft easily
3. Kicking Rorshach far away
4. Catching a bullet
5. Catching a fist capable of smashing through solid marble
6. Ramming Comedian's head through solid marble, breaking it in half


Like I said movie Cap was shown stronger and more durable, but not by much. Ozy does more than counter those things with his skill, h2h speed, and intelligence.

Correction, Punching through reinforced submarine glass, tanking steel denting hits, throwing heavily armored people 10-20 feet with one hand, lifting a motorcycle w/3 people above his head, punching and kicking armored people 10-20 feet, tanking energy attacks that could destroy cars etc etc etc.

Now again, how is Ozy going to get past Cap's durability?

He wasn't on the ladder. They were too far away from the pier when he through him for him to be on the ladder.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Correction, Punching through reinforced submarine glass, tanking steel denting hits, throwing heavily armored people 10-20 feet with one hand, lifting a motorcycle w/3 people above his head, punching and kicking armored people 10-20 feet, tanking energy attacks that could destroy cars etc etc etc.

Now again, how is Ozy going to get past Cap's durability?


He can't, lets stop acting H1 n\knows what he is talking about, which he clearly doesn't. He is hyping Ozy beyond his paid grade, Luke Cage caught a bullet but that doesn't make him a marital artist. Cap will phyiscally wear down Ozy, Cap is not comedian at all, after gets done with him, Ozy wishes Cap was Comedian.



Cap picking up Big Bertha and throwing across the room like she was child, and she weighs 750lbs +

Landing blows on beings like Thor, Hulk etc and staggering them.

Taking on 100 enhance Hydra soldiers.

Curb stomping US Agent a 10 toner in strength on numerous occasions.

Captain America v4 Issue 21. Cap is in a car that is FILLED with Assault Rifle Rounds Which hit him flush, Captain America doesnt have on his suit

Cap defeating a Namor clone and the real Namor being control by the controller, Namor got KO

Cap fighting battle suit Red skull, during the fight the building that they were in fall on him and he wasn't even fazed

Originally posted by the Darkone
He can't, lets stop acting H1 n\knows what he is talking about, which he clearly doesn't. He is hyping Ozy beyond his paid grade, Luke Cage caught a bullet but that doesn't make him a marital artist. Cap will phyiscally wear down Ozy, Cap is not comedian at all, after gets done with him, Ozy wishes Cap was Comedian.



Cap picking up Big Bertha and throwing across the room like she was child, and she weighs 750lbs +

Landing blows on beings like Thor, Hulk etc and staggering them.

Taking on 100 enhance Hydra soldiers.

Curb stomping US Agent a 10 toner in strength on numerous occasions.

Captain America v4 Issue 21. Cap is in a car that is FILLED with Assault Rifle Rounds Which hit him flush, Captain America doesnt have on his suit

Cap defeating a Namor clone and the real Namor being control by the controller, Namor got KO

Cap fighting battle suit Red skull, during the fight the building that they were in fall on him and he wasn't even fazed

It's a given Comic Cap would walk all over Ozy, but we were talking about movie Cap...he'd do the same thing combining feats from both Captain America and Avengers.

Captain America would punch Ozymandias' face off, what is wrong with you guys? Stop arguing with h1, if it isn't obvious now, it isn't going to be ever.

On the topic of Captain America, did anyone catch the new Ultimate Spider-Man episode? Marvel has completely dropped the pretense that Captain America is anything resembling human (Been like that for a while now tbh). But it was obvious where they were heading with it when they stopped calling him an enhanced human period, and referred to him as a super soldier.

I'd also like to point out, that the Captain America in the Ultimate Spider-Man Universe is copied and pasted from the movie Universe. This is even more one sided than I thought (If that was possible), if that's what Marvel thinks Captain America is at power/formidability wise.

The show isn't great and the jokes are cringe worthy at times but the episode was worth it for that -brief- ass kicking.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Correction, Punching through reinforced submarine glass, tanking steel denting hits, throwing heavily armored people 10-20 feet with one hand, lifting a motorcycle w/3 people above his head, punching and kicking armored people 10-20 feet, tanking energy attacks that could destroy cars etc etc etc.

Now again, how is Ozy going to get past Cap's durability?

lol at reinforced submarine glass
not only was that not a real submarine but the glass looked like plastic

heavily armored? I think not. They looked soft as hell. Especially with widow easily piercing them like jello.

tanking energy attacks that could destroy cars? I think not
the chariot's energy blasts were shown to destroy cars, not their hand weapons.
Also Cap had armor built in his gut area.

Oh you are referring to Skull denting the shield?
If so then i'm not sure it was made of steel. After all it was a prop for a costume.
Sure it was made of metal but definitely a much lighter metal since it was made for a regular human to carry to do shows with, not to actually fight with.
Also when Skull struck it you see bullets holes that easily penetrated it, proving it was much less durable than steel.
Also in the later scene Skull was scene making Cap bleed with a hit and smack to the face.

Ozy has proven superhuman strength and can easily duplicate Skull's hitting strength or better.

So Ozy is going to hit and damage Cap in the face as to get past his durability.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America would punch Ozymandias' face off, what is wrong with you guys? Stop arguing with h1, if it isn't obvious now, it isn't going to be ever.

On the topic of Captain America, did anyone catch the new Ultimate Spider-Man episode? Marvel has completely dropped the pretense that Captain America is anything resembling human (Been like that for a while now tbh). But it was obvious where they were heading with it when they stopped calling him an enhanced human period, and referred to him as a super soldier.

I'd also like to point out, that the Captain America in the Ultimate Spider-Man Universe is copied and pasted from the movie Universe. This is even more one sided than I thought (If that was possible), if that's what Marvel thinks Captain America is at power/formidability wise.

The show isn't great and the jokes are cringe worthy at times but the episode was worth it for that -brief- ass kicking.

Anyone who has proven superhuman strength, awesome skill and h2h speed, and ability to catch a bullet is not going to get their face punched off by CA, even if Ozy allowed him to hit him in the face. Ozy's skill and h2h speed makes up more than the slight strength advantage (at most twice as strong). He may not even get hit by Cap at all and counter every attack. Stop assuming Ozy is a regular human with regular human stats. He has shown to be easily superhuman by far. Hell Cap didn't knock the regular human's faces off after hitting them.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't understand

I don't know anything

Originally posted by TheGodKiller


That was opposites hour. Didn't you get the memo?
Why you think slime fell on my head when I said I don't know?

Ozymandias would win this one.

I've been trying to tell these peeps Movie Ozy beats Movie Cap for ages H1a8.
Good to see I'm not crazy.

Cap wipes his ass with Ozy and sends him back to the minor league where he belongs.

Originally posted by h1a8
lol at reinforced submarine glass
not only was that not a real submarine but the glass looked like plastic

heavily armored? I think not. They looked soft as hell. Especially with widow easily piercing them like jello.

tanking energy attacks that could destroy cars? I think not
the chariot's energy blasts were shown to destroy cars, not their hand weapons.
Also Cap had armor built in his gut area.

Oh you are referring to Skull denting the shield?
If so then i'm not sure it was made of steel. After all it was a prop for a costume.
Sure it was made of metal but definitely a much lighter metal since it was made for a regular human to carry to do shows with, not to actually fight with.
Also when Skull struck it you see bullets holes that easily penetrated it, proving it was much less durable than steel.
Also in the later scene Skull was scene making Cap bleed with a hit and smack to the face.

Ozy has proven superhuman strength and can easily duplicate Skull's hitting strength or better.

So Ozy is going to hit and damage Cap in the face as to get past his durability.

This is what you're reduced to? anyone that actually watched the movie knows that you're seriuosly low-balling/lying about the feats because Ozy has no way of getting past Cap's durability.

But for the record, bullets never penetrated Cap's shield, all they did was chip the paint, this was shown when we see the back of the shield after Red Skull punched it, there were no holes.

Wait, are we arguing movie or comic versions?

The thread was about comic Cap, the talk about movie Cap is a tangent that was started after most people realized that comic Cap destroys Ozy 10/10.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America would punch Ozymandias' face off, what is wrong with you guys? Stop arguing with h1, if it isn't obvious now, it isn't going to be ever.

On the topic of Captain America, did anyone catch the new Ultimate Spider-Man episode? Marvel has completely dropped the pretense that Captain America is anything resembling human (Been like that for a while now tbh). But it was obvious where they were heading with it when they stopped calling him an enhanced human period, and referred to him as a super soldier.

I'd also like to point out, that the Captain America in the Ultimate Spider-Man Universe is copied and pasted from the movie Universe. This is even more one sided than I thought (If that was possible), if that's what Marvel thinks Captain America is at power/formidability wise.

The show isn't great and the jokes are cringe worthy at times but the episode was worth it for that -brief- ass kicking.

Brubaker's responsible for the whole "he's not peak human" shtick, mostly.

Granted, Cap's always had feats which qualify as superhuman, but he was referred to as "peak human" in the context of his stories. Since Brubaker got on board, he's made it abundantly clear that Steve is superhuman, both in terms of feats and statements as well as writer interviews.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Brubaker's responsible for the whole "he's not peak human" shtick, mostly.

Granted, Cap's always had feats which qualify as superhuman, but he was referred to as "peak human" in the context of his stories. Since Brubaker got on board, he's made it abundantly clear that Steve is superhuman, both in terms of feats and statements as well as writer interviews.

Good for him

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Good for him

Very good for him, in fact.

Guy's had arguably the best Captain America run of all time and has influenced how Cap is handled outside of comics by Marvel for years (ie. the Captain America sequel).

Where once it was possibly debatable if Cap was just peak human with high end feats or outright superhuman to begin with, it certainly isn't nowadays since Brubaker got his hands on him years ago.

Yet people still try to downplay him by saying all of his superhuman feats don't count because he's only supposed to be peak human

Those people need to read Captain America comics instead of relying on bios and handbooks, then.

Peak humans don't dodge bullets because they "see faster than them". He's currently been described as the next stage in human evolution with the Super-Soldier Serum effectively making Steve the pinnacle of what a human could possibly be someday.

Admittedly, I used to think Steve was only peak human in description as well as conventionally, but that was before I started reading the comics in depth. Guy's superhuman.