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Ok its on the poll, and this isnt, like who is the strongest more like its the strongest based soley on the list

Originally posted by w00t2112
Ok its on the poll, and this isnt, like who is the strongest more like its the strongest based soley on the list

Yoda


btw: Is that the podracer Clegg Holdfast in your avatar?

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Yoda


btw: Is that the podracer Clegg Holdfast in your avatar?

1) Yoda is not nearly as powerful as most of the Sithlords there

2) No, its Morgoth, notice the 3 Jewels on his head.

oh yeah, kool avi, i neva noticed an i call myself a LOTR geek!, huh! im slipping

1. DE Sidious
2. Ulic
3. Revan
4. Yoda
5. Malak?

Originally posted by w00t2112
1) Yoda is not nearly as powerful as most of the Sithlords there

2) No, its Morgoth, notice the 3 Jewels on his head.

1) I'm not seeing how Revan/Malak are better then Yoda. What have they done so great?

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
1) I'm not seeing how Revan/Malak are better then Yoda. What have they done so great?

They brought the republic to it's knees and b!tchslapped it?

DE Sidious is the tops of that list. Revan or Luke are prolly next with Yoda behind them.

Why hasen't anyone said Darth Traya? I would put her equal or a little over or under DE Sidious.

Originally posted by SS_181st_Snow
They brought the republic to it's knees and b!tchslapped it?
and then b!tchslapped it again.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
1) I'm not seeing how Revan/Malak are better then Yoda. What have they done so great?

Except that Revan, defeated Mandalore and Yusansis, in melee combat, and except that Revan craved so much knowledge he seeked it everywhere and except he beat Malak when he lost all his memories, and where the Star Forge enhanced Malak's power, compared to what yoda has done? Someone who stalemated a ROTS Sidious, and someone who didnt conceivably beat Count Dooku, i'll say Revan achieved much more than Yoda..

i never said malak is better than yoda, i said MOST, not ALL.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
DE Sidious is the tops of that list. Revan or Luke are prolly next with Yoda behind them.

I'm not too sure, I'd put Revan and Sidious on par, with each other...

Btw why do people underrate Ulic, he has learned quite a lot, and is indeed a master swordsman, he beat Mandalore when Mandalore had every advantage...and he statemated Exar Kun in a lightsaber fight...

1. Ulic
2. DE Sidous
3. Revan
4. Traya
5. Bane
6. DE Luke
7. Yoda
8. Malak
9. Mace
10. Vader

i have to say, i agree with your list Glentract

Originally posted by SS_181st_Snow
They brought the republic to it's knees and b!tchslapped it?

And Sidious turned it to the Galactic Empire and whipped out the Jedi Order.

Originally posted by w00t2112
Except that Revan, defeated Mandalore and Yusansis, in melee combat, and except that Revan craved so much knowledge he seeked it everywhere and except he beat Malak when he lost all his memories, and where the Star Forge enhanced Malak's power, compared to what yoda has done? Someone who stalemated a ROTS Sidious, and someone who didnt conceivably beat Count Dooku, i'll say Revan achieved much more than Yoda..

i never said malak is better than yoda, i said MOST, not ALL.

Ok but Revan shown no great force powers. If anything I'd say his force powers were equal to Dooku's.

1. DE Sidious/Darth Traya.
2. Ulic.
3. Darth Revan.
4. Yoda/Bane.
5. Mace/Malak.
6. Darth Vader.

I'd put Traya and DE Sidious on an equal footing. I agree with Kamikz list, although I'd put Malak on footing with Yoda and Bane just above.

Traya and Sidious both possess instakills, but that should not be the basis for their power ranking. A fight between them would be difficult, as we do not know if one's instakill would work. I'm not a big KOTOR II fan, and it has been forever since I've played it . . . but I'm curious. Why didn't Traya use it on Scion and Nihilius, when they cast her from power ?

Anyways, DE Sidious's most powerful technique - the Force Storm - can cause casualties in the millions. Traya's instakill killed three Jedi Masters, whereas Sidious obliterated a fleet.

As far as their greatest technique, Sidious has - by far - the greater capacity for destruction. I would place him as the strongest on this list, with Traya a second.

Using it on Nihilus would be pointless, it's like what Nihilus did to the Exile. Trying to eat more hunger.

And Sion? I doubt she knew of their intentions that well at that moment. As soon as she ignited her sabre, Nihilus cut her connection to the force.

1) DE Sidious
2) Ulic Qel-Droma
3) Darth Traya / Darth Revan
4) Yoda
5) Mace Windu
6) Darth Malak
7) Darth Bane
8) Darth Vader
9) DE Luke

err, DE Luke IS superior to Darth Vader...

I'd argue that Traya > DE Sidious in personal combat. Her force powers pushed around three jedi masters like ragdolls, force drain not even considered. DE Sidious, meanwhile, was defeated with the awesome combined power of a weak Luke, Leia, and a child.

These threads are repetitive and old.

Originally posted by Wesker
I'd argue that Traya > DE Sidious in personal combat. Her force powers pushed around three jedi masters like ragdolls, force drain not even considered. DE Sidious, meanwhile, was defeated with the awesome combined power of a weak Luke, Leia, and a child.

Sidious defeated 3 Jedi Masters in ROTS like ragdolls, force storm not even considered.

Yeah, but they sucked. And he had to get up to do it.

Janus . . . I'm going to have to politely, but firmly disagree.

I held a copy of Dark Empire in my hand today. I finally found a printed copy in Barnes & Noble. I gave my original set to my cousin, when he moved to New York. I read the comic book again. So I'm full with info about this subject.

Traya is a mighty force to be reckoned with, especially given her mighty instakill technique. However, it cannot be denied that Sidious's technique is more destructive and ultimately more powerful. The best we've seen Traya do is kill three Jedi Masters. Powerful Jedi, to be sure, but in the end - three individuals.

Sidious has obliterated massive ships. So, whereas Traya's casualties - from her instakill - lay in single digits (in KOTOR II) - Sidious's is in the quadruples. He destroyed fleets.

So, while you can make an arguement for personal combat, you won't have such luck in an overall test of feats.

Also, I will ask you to note that - by the time of Dark Empire, Luke is very powerful. He is able to crush an Imperial AT-AT by himself, armed only with a lightsaber. He is able to reflect a blaster bolt from its main canon, and then proceeds to slice its legs. He does it with ease, and I do not jest.

So. Let me spell out the situation.

Luke succumbs to the Dark Side when he confronts Palpatine, for the first time since Palpatine's 'rebirth'. He knows that Palpatine is too powerful, and gives in - trying to destroy the Emperor from the inside out. He falls too far. Under orders from Palpatine, he kidnaps a pregnant Leia. She manages to turn him back. Luke then proceeds to sneak into Palpatine's laboratory, and destroys all but one of his clones. Palpatine then possesses that clone, and they engage in a battle. After a few minutes, Palpatine puts Luke on his ass. Luke then joins the Dark Side again, and goes with Palpatine to execute Leia. Viola! Leia once again manages to convince Luke to stop Palpatine.

So, they fight. Palpatine is once again about to kill Luke when Leia subconsciously performs a feat called 'Luminous Beings'. It combines the Force attunement of herself and Anakin Solo - and then combines it with Luke's. Palpatine and Luke fight again, but then Luke disarms him (literally).

So, Palps then tries to kill them via Force Storm. I should mention this.

The Force Storm takes mere seconds to conjure. Seconds. However, they manage to temporary block him from the Force. He loses control. It consumes his body, and then slowly begins to destroy the ship. They escape. The Imperial fleet explodes.

To wrap it up:

- Force Storms take mere seconds to conjure. Sidious can control their size and power. They can consume individuals standing mere feet away from him, or they can grow to consume entire fleets of ships. This occurs in seconds, in compliance with Sidious's will and thoughts. If I were a gambling man, I'd wager - at maximum - it would take three to five seconds.

- Sidious possesses nearly lethal bolts of Force Lightning. A single blast is enough to kill a few of Luke's Jedi. A few got away with mortal wounds, but died shortly thereafter.

- Sidious possesses training from about 9.5 years after the Battle of Endor. That's all he did. He manipulated the Thrawn Campaign to help focus Imperial morale. He did it from behind-the-scenes, whilst training on Byss. In his younger body, he is stronger, faster, and more agile than Luke (and thus, probably Kreia).

- Sidious (on his DEATH BED), invaded Onderon to take Anakin Solo by force. Anakin and Leia were being protected by New Republic soldiers - and by a large portion of Luke's Jedi. Sidious singlehandedly obliterated their security (again, on his death bed), and mortally wounded a few of the Jedi Knights before moving to possess Leia. He was then shot in the back, by Han Solo.

- Luke - by the time of DE - possessed enough ability and training to singehandedly obliterate an Imperial AT-AT, armed only with a lightsaber.

- Sidious was only defeated when Leia combined her Force Attunement, along with Anakin's, with Luke's. Now, argue all you like here. The Force attunement of a single Skywalker is amazing. They possess the greatest attunement to the Force that we've seen. Multiply that by three, Janus. Weak? Hardly. It's an overwhelming power.

Now. I'm not going to say that DE Sidious is 'teh uberist Sith Lord of all time!!!11!!!'. . . but he's the most powerful entity on this list. His ability for destruction far surpasses Traya.

Far.

She is very powerful. Hell, she has an excellent chance of killing him in single combat. It all just comes down to who the hell gets the instakill in first. Because, when you have two combatants armed with such abilities - it simply amounts to who's quicker on the draw.

Take that away, and you've got a guy who can chuck Force Lightning that is fatal from a single shot. He's younger and stronger than her, in his clone bodies. He's still an undeniable threat when he's an inch from death.

Sorry Janus. I don't think Traya's got this one.

Isn't Sidious the strongest sith lord as said by lightsnake:

Sidious is indeed the strongest of all time, confirmed in several sources, first in the original piece of EU Dark Empire. In that comic, Sidious manages to cheat death several times, forcing his spirit into other bodies. He devours the life force of six billion inhabitants of the world Byss but doesn't kill them, showing control. In addition, at the end, he squares off with Luke in combat and by this point, Luke is referred to as very powerful. Palpatine focuses his rage and annihilates a fleet of ships with a force storm.

There is never anything to indicate this is different from the Sidious we see in the trilogies.

Moreover, when he visits Korriban, he is hailed at by the Sith, mocked by several but in the end they acquiesce to his wish when he demands it of them, saying he gave up everything to the Dark Side...in another source, Dark Lord, I believe, it is revealed Sidious was prophesized as the greatest by the Ancient Sith themselves. The creator of the ancient Sith, Kevin Anderson, vile Dune destroying heretic he is, said he never intended Sidious to be below his creations.

Another argument is 'Why does he never show this in ROTS?"

Same reason why Yoda isn't leaping around Luke like a madman: Both technology constraints...and that he doesn't need to. We could have quiet control from sidious or he could milk a few giant cows, wave his arms and level some buildings...and with Yoda, vaporizing half of Coruscant would probably not be such a good idea.

I'll most certainly say Vader was weaker as was as a lot of Ancient Sith, but probably greater than a lot of others. At the boards I frequent, it's been a huge debate against him and Revan.

Before you use an argument brought forward by lightsnake you should read the threads in which he debated. His points were beaten long ago.

But you base Ragnos being the strongest on what someone said which took place 4,000 years before the PT and a few years after ROTJ someone called Sidious the strongest sith lord and so you deny that for what was said about Ragnos.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
But you base Ragnos being the strongest on what someone said which took place 4,000 years before the PT and a few years after ROTJ someone called Sidious the strongest sith lord and so you deny that for what was said about Ragnos.

We base Ragnos being the strongest one quotes from the Narrator who should know. Quotes from other people, the Sith society and evidence.

Sidious being the strongest however comes from outdated material that was written before TOTJ was even created and from only one very dubious source... With no real on screen evidence to suggest that what he did was as great as was claimed.

What about these?

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: "Palpatine at his peak."

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

DE Sourcebook is outdated

The spirit who is it? Why does he know? And what does the greatest mena? Uthar Wynn for instance said Sadow was greater then Ragnos because Sadow conquered and Ragnos did not.. Perhaps thats why he was the greatest. The strongest again how does it know? And the source is outdated

Kevn J. Anderson do you have a link to that?

TFT.net also isn't a canon source, did GL come out and claim it?

EC, likely outdated source.

Just read the threads that lightsnake posted in, all of this has been done already.

Did GL say Ragnos was the greatest? Did GL say Sadow was the greatest? Sidious is the greatest Sith of all time. He managed to keep hidden from the Jedi as being a sith despite the fact he was around them a lot including Yoda and Mace Windu.
You say DE is outdated so if someone wrote a novel that claimed someone else was far greater then Ragnos that would make soruces on Ragnos outdated? And wasn't most of the information you got on Ragnos just rumors? And wasn't he said to be the greatest in KoToR (1 or 2 I forgot) wasn't that said 4,000 years before the PT? Rome was the greatest empire on Earth...thousands of years ago but it isn't any more. Ragnos may have been the strongest of his time but everything that was said about him mostly took place way before the PT.

Do you have links to any of those mentioned sites and quote? Neither did Lightsnake.

He kept himself hidden from the Jedi? Exar Kun entered Ossus pretending to be a Jedi, converted twenty Knights, and made them believe that they were going to learn from a Jedi Holocron which was actually of the Sith. Is he the strongest now?

And as Fishy said; this debate has been done to the death across dozens of threads. And we're not the ones who ran away.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Did GL say Ragnos was the greatest? Did GL say Sadow was the greatest? Sidious is the greatest Sith of all time. He managed to keep hidden from the Jedi as being a sith despite the fact he was around them a lot including Yoda and Mace Windu.
You say DE is outdated so if someone wrote a novel that claimed someone else was far greater then Ragnos that would make soruces on Ragnos outdated? And wasn't most of the information you got on Ragnos just rumors? And wasn't he said to be the greatest in KoToR (1 or 2 I forgot) wasn't that said 4,000 years before the PT? Rome was the greatest empire on Earth...thousands of years ago but it isn't any more. Ragnos may have been the strongest of his time but everything that was said about him mostly took place way before the PT.

No GL didn't say Ragnos was the greatest, seeing as there is no canon statement on who is the greatest we have to figure it out for ourselves.

Exar Kun also managed to walk into Osus when he was on the Dark Side, kill Odan Urr the most respected member of the Jedi Order, take his Sith holocron, say he Odan proclaimed him a Jedi and made 20 Jedi follow him to learn under him. Thats far more impressive then just hiding yourself, when the force clouds the vision of the Jedi.

The information we have on Ragnos is based on logical conclusions. For instance we know that he lived in the Golden Age of the Sith, this is said in the comic, during that age he ruled surpreme with an iron fist while people were rebelling against him. That shows he is greater then them.

Rome still is the greatest Empire the earth has ever seen.

If a book would come out about somebody else before or after Ragnos, claiming that the person was greater then Ragnos then indeed that person would be greater then Ragnos. What DE did is claim somebody as the best when there was no competition. Thats the mayor difference here.

Also Ragnos lived 5.000 years before the PT and the OT this is true. However his story was written with the knowledge of the movies, therefor the statements made in the comics also refer to the movies. Its not like they said greatest of his time, no just the greatest. Seeing as the movies were known, we know he was greater then them. If the movies would have been invented later on we couldn't have used that statement as an argument.

I'm not going to argue this, either . . . but I will say:

The Essential Chronology is brand spanking new. It isn't an outdated source. It can't even be remotely considered as such. I will also say that more sources cite Sidious as the most powerful than any other Sith Lord, including Ragnos.

Someone can make an arguement that Sidious is the greatest because he reigned over the galaxy, whereas no other Sith Lord ever did. Militaristically, Sidious's empire exceeds all others by far. In 'feat wars', Sidious trumps all of the other Sith Lords.

But the inconsistencies cannot accurately rank his power level. Thus, the theory that he is the most powerful cannot be proven or disproven at this time.

I wouldn't know about that source really, I assumed apparantly wrongfully so that it came from the same time as the other sources Lightsnake mentioned.

And if its a canon source and it literally says he is the most powerful then I guess there is no arguing there... I however would want to see more of this, because if its true, if its stated like that and there isn't anything stated that would make the statement wrong and it is a canon source then all debates against Lightsnake were well useless..

Oh, I'm not arguing that Palpatine is the strongest and most powerful Sith. I am simply saying that more sources cite him as the strongest than any other being. That is a fact. More sources label him as the strongest than Ragnos, Kun, Sadow, or Revan.

Ragnos is cited as being "the most powerful of the most powerful" in the TOTJ comic book. That can be inferred that he is the strongest, and it can be supported by the fact that SuperSith such as Naga Sadow feared him. However, on the other hand, it could be that Ragnos was the most powerful of the most powerful of that time. The quote does not specify, whereas Sidious has been labeled "strongest of all time".

Emphasis on all time.

Granted, there are numerous inconsistencies which prevent me from agreeing completely. But if the arguement were decided by sources, then Sidious would indeed be the strongest. It is possible that he is. Just not guarenteed.

I came to this thread to disprove Janus's statements. I think I did a good job doing it, but I didn't mean to argue that Sidious is the strongest Sith of all time.

I know you didn't, but well if the claim is correct then he might just be anyways.

btw: On the Ragnos thing, yes he's the most poweful of the most powerful, but not just that, he's also lived in the golden age of the Sith. Golden age ussually means the richest age the age when they were most powerful. so he lived at the peak of the Sith Empire and was the strongest of the strongest then. Thats why we think he's the most powerful

I know you're not arguing just felt like explaining it anyway.

I know.

However, the Sith were at their wealthiest during this time . . . and the 'golden age' is also vague. It could mean when they were at their highest level of population.

Originally posted by Escape81
I know.

However, the Sith were at their wealthiest during this time . . . and the 'golden age' is also vague. It could mean when they were at their highest level of population.

Unlikely, if you look at world history, every country its golden age is when it is at its most powerful.

Italy's for instance during the height of the Roman Empire, Egypt during the rule of the greatest Pharaoh's, England's, France, Hollands, Spain's, Portugal's golden ages all lived during the golden age of Europe when colonies were plenty and money was even more so.

It refers to how great a country was at that time, and a country's its golden age is its greatest period in time. For an Empire like the Sith empire that would logically be the same. At least that is ussually the implied thing with golden age, sometimes its different but then its almost always stated "golden age of art" for instance, which was during the golden age of Europe by the way.

So with a normal golden age that isn't expanded upon with specifics we can assume that is indeed the golden age of the empire and that it is at the height of its power at that particulair point in time.

True, considering China and the Han Dynasty, was pretty much where they were techonologically more advanced than its neighbours as well, it was when they were wealthy and they produced the strongest generals that literally wiped out the Hun's to the North...

The Jedi Golden age is however different, it refers to a peaceful era, where the guardians of peace are numerous and evil is scattered, whereas the Sith's Golden Age, is when they produce their Strongest, ie Ragnos.

Originally posted by kamikz
Why hasen't anyone said Darth Traya? I would put her equal or a little over or under DE Sidious.

I say Traya would w00p them all, i wouldnt of thought she was a sith witch probably would be my downfall star wars wise. . .

Plus she allmost w00ped me in kotorII if i wasnt for drain force & life.