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Originally posted by PVS
If a woman who is raped becomes pregnant, the rapist would have the same rights to the child as the mother, said Krista Heeren-Graber, executive director of the South Dakota Network Against Family Violence and Sexual Assault.



erm..... My brain hurts... It hurts really hard when it reads stupid...

its gods way apparently

sure eliminates all the pressure and awkwardness of courtship, doesnt it?
well, fine. maybe all the rapists and insestual freaks will move to south dakota. might just be a blessing in disguise.

Amercia is totally ****ed up. Can't the President step in and do something about this? I would have thought he would have the power to do that.

Originally posted by Makedde
Amercia is totally ****ed up. Can't the President step in and do something about this? I would have thought he would have the power to do that.

as if this isnt exactly what he wants?

Originally posted by PVS
its gods way apparently

sure eliminates all the pressure and awkwardness of courtship, doesnt it?
well, fine. maybe all the rapists and insestual freaks will move to south dakota. might just be a blessing in disguise.

That's hilarious. Probably not for the mothers, but it is quite funny.

Reminds me of a Doug Stanhope quote, 'The separation between Church and State is the perineum, and the episiotomy didn't hold.'

Well now dads have rights as well!

then again at least its better then the ambiguous "well I'm all for people having the choice to abort babies, But I'm against killing..." arguments... Shut up and choose a side...

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I already posted this in the abortion thread.

Oh, well.



well its not a general abortion debate is it? no
but would you like a cookie anyway?

Originally posted by PVS
well its not a general abortion debate is it? no
but would you like a cookie anyway?

"meesa like cookies"

A victim of rape should be allowed to preform an abortion in the early stage of the embryo. It was violently forced upon her and not to become a desired human being.
Sorry for the 'but it's a life' orientated among you here, but this world is crowded enough already by intended offspring of which to many only amplify the curse humankind brings to this planet. The last thing we need is more humans brought to this world through selfish crimes, just to be raised by desperate and abandoned mothers as they are demanded to take care of a child in a society that does nothing for these involuntary mothers.
They must have the right to escape this burden, especially when they have been the victim of a serious crime already.

Originally posted by Pandemoniac
A victim of rape should be allowed to preform an abortion in the early stage of the embryo. It was violently forced upon her and not to become a desired human being.
Sorry for the 'but it's a life' orientated among you here, but this world is crowded enough already by intended offspring of which to many only amplify the curse humankind brings to this planet. The last thing we need is more humans brought to this world through selfish crimes, just to be raised by desperate and abandoned mothers as they are demanded to take care of a child in a society that does nothing for these involuntary mothers.
They must have the right to escape this burden, especially when they have been the victim of a serious crime already.

I agree somewhat, and anyway, that won't stand.

Not even most Christians I know would vote for that part of it.

It will be amended.


As for over-population,.......


Abortion has already claimed 1/3rd of my generation (18-25), so I don't think we need any more help.

Originally posted by Makedde
This scares me. I don't agree with it, even if I am against abortion. A rape victim being forced to have a baby, and the rapist would be able to apply for custody of that child, wouldn't he?

Sickening.

Yeah this is a pretty troubling bill. Allowing a rapist to have rights for the child? WTF! Incest, rape and medical complications definitely need to be an exception to this bill.

Originally posted by Pandemoniac
A victim of rape should be allowed to preform an abortion in the early stage of the embryo. It was violently forced upon her and not to become a desired human being.
Sorry for the 'but it's a life' orientated among you here, but this world is crowded enough already by intended offspring of which to many only amplify the curse humankind brings to this planet. The last thing we need is more humans brought to this world through selfish crimes, just to be raised by desperate and abandoned mothers as they are demanded to take care of a child in a society that does nothing for these involuntary mothers.
They must have the right to escape this burden, especially when they have been the victim of a serious crime already.


Yup. Totally agree. Kudos to you. Gee I have so much to offer to this discussion. I'll think of something that hasn't been said, hopefully.

please, lets keep general pro-life/anti-abortion points out of this thread, unless in the context of rape victims being forced to keep their bastard seed.

i just dont want to see a thread merge, since this issue alone is pretty damn heavy imho

Originally posted by meep-meep
Yeah this is a pretty troubling bill. Allowing a rapist to have rights for the child? WTF! Incest, rape and medical complications definitely need to be an exception to this bill.

I wonder that when the rapist goes to prison, can he demand to see his child? Would the woman be forced to bring the child to the prison to see him? Would the rapist be able to force the woman to keep the child, and have a say in his/her upbringing?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Not even most Christians I know would vote for that part of it.


So you will believe Genesis but you won't follow one of gods cardinal rules??

Thou shall not kill....

I think hes quite blunt on the subject .... If your going to make amendments to his top ten, Why not to half of this book??

Originally posted by Makedde
Would the rapist be able to force the woman to keep the child, and have a say in his/her upbringing?

if the rapist has the rights of any father, then yes, i believe he would have a say, and the power to prevent her from putting the kid up for adoption.

Originally posted by PVS
if the rapist has the rights of any father, then yes, i believe he would have a say, and the power to prevent her from putting the kid up for adoption.

I think that all women in South Dakota should move to another state.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
So you will believe Genesis but you won't follow one of gods cardinal rules??

Thou shall not kill....

I think hes quite blunt on the subject .... If your going to make amendments to his top ten, Why not to half of this book??

WTF?!?


All I said is that the girl having to keep a rapists baby probably won't go through.

It's hard to say if abortion in this case is wrong.(for me, anyway)

You're right, it's killing, and a sin, but so is rape. (there is no "cardinal" sin in my religion,.. it's all sin. All sin is equal. It all shows the heart of a person...... off topic.)


Anyway, I'm not "amending" anything.

It's this bill (a damn fine piece of legislature if I do say so myself), that needs some slight "amending".

More encouraging is the end of the article that says 7 more states already have bills like this on the table.

Originally posted by Makedde
I wonder that when the rapist goes to prison, can he demand to see his child? Would the woman be forced to bring the child to the prison to see him? Would the rapist be able to force the woman to keep the child, and have a say in his/her upbringing?

That certainly seems the way things could headed there. That's why its important for the people to pressure their government officials to veto this bill. If not we will more than likely have a much more confused, poor and violent society.

Originally posted by meep-meep
That certainly seems the way things could headed there. That's why its important for the people to pressure their government officials to veto this bill. If not we will more than likely have a much more confused, poor and violent society.

I feel so scared for these women.

Originally posted by meep-meep
That certainly seems the way things could headed there. That's why its important for the people to pressure their government officials to veto this bill. If not we will more than likely have a much more confused, poor and violent society.

Good luck with that.


The officals all passed it already.

If the govennor (who the article says is Republican and Pro-Life) signs it, it's law.


Then it will be called un-constitutional and sent to the Supreme Court.

Unfortunately for some,.... my side has already stacked the deck.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
WTF?!?


All I said is that the girl having to keep a rapists baby probably won't go through.

It's hard to say if abortion in this case is wrong.(for me, anyway)

You're right, it's killing, and a sin, but so is rape. (there is no "cardinal" sin in my religion,.. it's all sin. All sin is equal. It all shows the heart of a person...... off topic.)


i think what he means is that whether or not a child is concieved by way of rape, that child is just as innocent in the eyes of god as a child concieved in love. so if you adhere to the bible, it would seem that this decision is right in line. see what happens when an ancient book of stories is translated in the strictest sense? it gives rights to the rapists and strips away the rights of the victim...and by extention the child, since they are forced into an existance which is partially dictated by a sexual deviant.

now comes an issue which we CAN connect to paedophila, so the possibilities are endlessly dismal and tragic.

Let me rephrase: women should have the right to terminate the torment that can be the result of rape, despite of the fact that it will take form of a human later on.
Also, all rapists should be terminated as well, in the most painful manner possible so they feel relief entering hell.

Originally posted by Pandemoniac
Let me rephrase: women should have the right to terminate the torment that can be the result of rape, despite of the fact that it will take form of a human later on.
Also, all rapists should be terminated as well, in the most painful manner possible so they feel relief entering hell.

I agree!

Originally posted by PVS
i think what he means is that whether or not a child is concieved by way of rape, that child is just as innocent in the eyes of god as a child concieved in love. so if you adhere to the bible, it would seem that this decision is right in line. see what happens when an ancient book of stories is translated in the strictest sense? it gives rights to the rapists and strips away the rights of the victim...and by extention the child, since they are forced into an existance which is partially dictated by a sexual deviant.

now comes an issue which we CAN connect to paedophila, so the possibilities are endlessly dismal and tragic.

Right.


The Bible did that. :/




Idiot lawmakers with good intentions did it.

They should have included causes for incest and rape, (seeing as how they included medical emergecies) which most pro-lifers have already agreeed as being fair and just.


Don't blame God for the messes that humans make.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

The Bible did that.

an ancient book cant do a thing but sit there.
i dont blame the bible or jesus. way to twist my words.
thats a very weak tactic, so please refrain.
anyway, i blame the bible thumpers
who seem obsessed with utilizing scripture in the most perverse way.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
They should have included causes for incest and rape.

Erm.. No... Are you killing something? Is it going against the 10 commandments?

It doesn't matter if the baby has defective genes! You can't change the bible, and I don't think god ever gave clauses on incest or rape...

Originally posted by PVS
i blame the bible thumpers
who seem obsessed with utilizing scripture in the most perverse way.

Exactly! You can't quote the bible and stick so closely to it in one thread then go against it in another. Either stick with the exact meaning or be prepared to accept that the bible got it wrong in other areas as well...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Erm.. No... Are you killing something? Is it going against the 10 commandments?

It doesn't matter if the baby has defective genes! You can't change the bible, and I don't think god ever gave clauses on incest or rape...

Aye, but we can never be as good as God.

Many mistakes made by man are justified through religious believes, just like solutions that mankind came up with are put down in the name of religion.
God stopped caring a long time ago, if he ever did... We have to think for our selves

Originally posted by Makedde
Amercia is totally ****ed up. Can't the President step in and do something about this? I would have thought he would have the power to do that.
The President is the problem.
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Erm.. No... Are you killing something? Is it going against the 10 commandments?

It doesn't matter if the baby has defective genes! You can't change the bible, and I don't think god ever gave clauses on incest or rape...



Exactly! You can't quote the bible and stick so closely to it in one thread then go against it in another. Either stick with the exact meaning or be prepared to accept that the bible got it wrong in other areas as well...
Agreed

Isn't incest an inherent part of the mass populating of a planet by a few people?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Isn't incest an inherent part of the mass populating of a planet by a few people?

I think that when the population was just starting out, people would have been committing insest everyday.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Isn't incest an inherent part of the mass populating of a planet by a few people?

yes, according to the bible it certainly is...but alas we should keep the topic on rape.

No one should be forced to give birth to a rapists baby,and be forced to raise it, and take it to the prison where the rapist is. That's just sick.

Originally posted by PVS
yes, according to the bible it certainly is...but alas we should keep the topic on rape.

Well, since you said 'alas'.




Wait....I was on topic, you foul harpie.

Just very indirectly.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Well, since you said 'alas'.




Wait....I was on topic, you foul harpie.

Just very indirectly.

i know, but then the topic shifts toward a general abortion debate......alas

Oh, wait is it illegal yet?

Well, it could have something to do with abortion, what if the rapist tries to prevent the woman from having an abortion?

Originally posted by Makedde
Well, it could have something to do with abortion, what if the rapist tries to prevent the woman from having an abortion?

That should be irrelevant. Piss on the rapist.

(the rape and incest clauses are the only thing that troubles me about this)

Originally posted by Makedde
Well, it could have something to do with abortion, what if the rapist tries to prevent the woman from having an abortion?

i said we should not shift to a general abortion debate, or the thread will get merged.

rape + abortion = topic

abortion - rape = impending merge

Originally posted by PVS
yes, according to the bible it certainly is...but alas we should keep the topic on rape.
I fear this may lead to more "back alley coat-hanger abortions". Not only in the case of rape, but a just plain unwanted pregnancy. My deepest sympathies go out to any women who will be harmed because of the narrowminded policies being instituted by our current administration. Maybe after seeing some ill-effects the state will come around. Still, some women are going to have to suffer to change that and that isn't right.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Good luck with that.


The officals all passed it already.

If the govennor (who the article says is Republican and Pro-Life) signs it, it's law.


Then it will be called un-constitutional and sent to the Supreme Court.

Unfortunately for some,.... my side has already stacked the deck.



Well, Than I'd say that I hope all the women have family in other states or are financially capable of getting out of there. I don't know if you everf been raped before but methinks you haven't. Imagine it happening to you with and then having to give birth to the baby of the person who forcebly RAPED you. I wonder if you could really love that child as your own. Let that swirl around for awhile.

And I didn't realize we were playing a game here with sides and decks. Last time I checked nobody was keeping score of anything. You know what? Let that swirl aroundfor awhile, too.

off topic: i get the feeling whob will avoid this topic like the tenth plague....
as well as browse south dakota real estate and job opportunities

Originally posted by meep-meep
Well, Than I'd say that I hope all the women have family in other states or are financially capable of getting out of there. I don't know if you everf been raped before but methinks you haven't. Imagine it happening to you with and then having to give birth to the baby of the person who forcebly RAPED you. I wonder if you could really love that child as your own. Let that swirl around for awhile.

And I didn't realize we were playing a game here with sides and decks. Last time I checked nobody was keeping score of anything. You know what? Let that swirl aroundfor awhile, too.

Then imagine me raising the child, with more love and dedication than it normally takes.

Imagine me trusting God to take that evil (rape) and make somehting good out of it(love, parenthood, enriched-life,grandchildren).

Imagine me building integrity and character by doing what's right in the most horrible of circumstances. (what we do in the worst of times defines who we are.)


Then imagine that my son or daughter becomes a great person, a sennator, or even President.

Imagine me seeing that I was incredibly blessed for following the Will of the Lord.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Then imagine me raising the child, with more love and dedication than it normally takes.

Imagine me trusting God to take that evil (rape) and make somehting good out of it(love, parenthood, enriched-life,grandchildren).

Imagine me building integrity and character by doing what's right in the most horrible of circumstances. (what we do in the worst of times defines who we are.)


Then imagine that my son or daughter becomes a great person, a sennator, or even President.

Imagine me seeing that I was incredibly blessed for following the Will of the Lord.

...and imagine the person who raped you being allowed by law to come into contact with your little bundle of love...and to be able to partially dictate that child's future.

Originally posted by PVS
...and imagine the person who raped you being allowed by law to come into contact with your little bundle of love...and to be able to partially dictate that child's future.

*shudder*

Originally posted by PVS
...and imagine the person who raped you being allowed by law to come into contact with your little bundle of love...and to be able to partially dictate that child's future.

Well, no need to even go that far. What if she doesn't want to do all that bumper sticker/fridge magnet/greetings card stuff?

Given the choice, she still can.

A useful tool, logic.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Well, no need to even go that far. What if she doesn't want to do all that bumper sticker/fridge magnet/greetings card stuff?

Given the choice, she still can.

A useful tool, logic.

this post went over my head

Originally posted by PVS
...and imagine the person who raped you being allowed by law to come into contact with your little bundle of love...and to be able to partially dictate that child's future.

I already said that I believe that part to be wrong.

Piss on the rapist, I believe, were my exact words.

Yeah, but the problem with logic is that it's doesn't collaborate with a government that decides to promote the principle of freedom around the world at the same time as attempting to restrict it within its own country.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Well, no need to even go that far. What if she doesn't want to do all that bumper sticker/fridge magnet/greetings card stuff?

Given the choice, she still can.

A useful tool, logic.

He asked for my opinion, and I gave it .


My outcome is no more logical/illogical than yours.

Originally posted by PVS
this post went over my head

Oh, do keep up son.

The bumper sticker stuff was contained in the post you quoted.

The choice was the choice to abort.

The useful tool was logic.


Seriously though, this whole thing is idiotic. Not because rape/incest abortions are being prevented, but because any right to choose is being removed.

That's slightly veering off-topic though. I just find it funny, reading the original post. It's so beyond funny that it's not funny. Although it then goes so far beyond that, it's funny again.

Or maybe it's a big Wheel of Fortune type wheel, with 'funny' and 'beyond funny' alternately, and it ended up on funny after a big spin.

So yeah.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
He asked for my opinion, and I gave it .


My outcome is no more logical/illogical than yours.

i think you're taking on a bit of a persecution complex.
although you certainly did comment on the rights of a rapist in
one post, you went on and made a sweet sappy post of how this
law somehow has a silver lining, leaving out the horrid situation
you initially pointed out. thats why it was brought up again.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
He asked for my opinion, and I gave it .


My outcome is no more logical/illogical than yours.

Arguable, although the lack of logic referred to is in the original post and subject of the thread, not your post.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Arguable, although the lack of logic referred to is in the original post and subject of the thread, not your post.



My bad...

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I already said that I believe that part to be wrong.

I don't think anyone, not a victim of rape, has the right to say that killing the product of a rape is wrong. I believe all abortion is wrong, but abortions are not always done for the same reasons. If you knew what it was like to be raped, I am sure you'd change your opinion.

This is ****ing ridiculous.

Up next for legislation in 2006, taking away men's rights to jack-off!

Why don't they take away the choice to walk around outside while they're at it.

Their logic is fine.

If you believe abortion is murder, then rape is no justification for killing the child, and no matter what you think, the legislators think that it IS the same as killing the child.

And yes, then the rapist would indeed have the same rights to the child as the mother. Which is to say, the Mother would not have many rights to the child if she had committed a violent criminal offence. As obviously the rapist has done that, it's hardly going to be equal access. Just that both are judged by the same criteria.

Just consider how many Family Court hearings are actually going to consider it appropriate for the rapist to spend time with the child? Pretty much bugger all.

The fact that at some point the rapist might have some for of connection with the child... is just a fact of life, I am afraid. In these sorts of cases, the well-being of the child is put first and it is considered a human right for a child to, for examp,e, know the indetity of their parents, regardless of circumstance.

But there is no need to perpetuate the idea of a rapist forcibly gettin into his victim's life and taking a child, or what-not.

So the rest of this all flows logically from the belief that a foetus has the right to life.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Their logic is fine.

If you believe abortion is murder...

...then you're trying to debate a fact and therefore, are wrong.

About as far as it really needs to go there.

-AC

What? Finally Rapists can procreate with Dakota Fanning? Not another Paedophile Thread.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...then you're trying to debate a fact and therefore, are wrong.

About as far as it really needs to go there.

-AC

Once more, only in your opinion. Many disagree. You are just going to have to accept that there is a debate bere, no matter what your opinion on ths subject is, and that that opinion is the basis of this proposed law change, or the law in Ireland.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
But there is no need to perpetuate the idea of a rapist forcibly gettin into his victim's life and taking a child, or what-not.


based on your own assumption, which is based on nothing but your own logic, not the logic of any individual case which may or may not abide by yours...and any other sane individual's.

"If a woman who is raped becomes pregnant, the rapist would have the same rights to the child as the mother, said Krista Heeren-Graber, executive director of the South Dakota Network Against Family Violence and Sexual Assault."

that refers to the rights of the rapist, equal to the rights of any parent. not the right of a child to learn the identity of a parent.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Then imagine me raising the child, with more love and dedication than it normally takes.

Imagine me trusting God to take that evil (rape) and make somehting good out of it(love, parenthood, enriched-life,grandchildren).

Imagine me building integrity and character by doing what's right in the most horrible of circumstances. (what we do in the worst of times defines who we are.)


Then imagine that my son or daughter becomes a great person, a sennator, or even President.

Imagine me seeing that I was incredibly blessed for following the Will of the Lord.

Wow. You really want to bring a lot of good in this world, I see. But as soon as you wake up from you dream, come talk to me. The truth is a lot of people, though they would like nothing more to help people when they need it, often have their handsful just worrying about themselves. What isf that women can't afford to raise her child? Is the rapist going to cover the bill? What if she's poor and has no skills that are considers "valuable" in our society? As noble as your making it sound for a woman to raise a fatherless child, and not mention the father is a rapsit, it's not as noble in practice. In fact it's pretty crazy. If a rich woman gets raped and has the resources available to raise the child, ok, let her. Don't ask other people to.

Originally posted by meep-meep
Wow. You really want to bring a lot of good in this world, I see. But as soon as you wake up from you dream, come talk to me. The truth is a lot of people, though they would like nothing more to help people when they need it, often have their handsful just worrying about themselves. What isf that women can't afford to raise her child? Is the rapist going to cover the bill? What if she's poor and has no skills that are considers "valuable" in our society? As noble as your making it sound for a woman to raise a fatherless child, and not mention the father is a rapsit, it's not as noble in practice. In fact it's pretty crazy. If a rich woman gets raped and has the resources available to raise the child, ok, let her. Don't ask other people to.

And definitly do not force them too... Besides rich people will just fly to a country where its legal and have an abortion anyways.. if they want to at least.

Can we send Dick to S Dakota to hunt?

Originally posted by PVS
February 24th, 2006 5:57 pm

PIERRE, S.D. - The Legislature on Friday approved a ban on nearly all abortions in South Dakota, setting up a direct legal assault on Roe v. Wade.



This is the heart of the matter. It is nothing but a political tactic, implemented by those in power right now. This is the snow flake that starts the avalanche. No one in this country should be suprised by this. This administration has been gearing up for this for the last 6 years.

It sickens me, but it doesn't suprise me.

All this means is that they decided to start the fight in S. Dakota. Why take it to such an extreme, so far as to deny abortions to rape victims? Because that just fans the flames that much faster.

There are going to be a lot of pregnant women flying in the not too distant future.

It ironically counters the whole argument that childbirth is some wonderous miracle.

Watch the single mother miracles spread like a forest fire.

-AC

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Abortion has already claimed 1/3rd of my generation (18-25), so I don't think we need any more help.

Did you answer my question already?

WTH are you getting this information?

Yes I'm curious too.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It ironically counters the whole argument that childbirth is some wonderous miracle.

Watch the single mother miracles spread like a forest fire.

-AC

Indeed. Isn't so wonderful to see a poor mother try and raise her children. You know those inner city schools really are just a hot-bed of extremely dedicated teachers who love working with children who are taught only what is necessary so that they pass standardized tests.
It has to be such a wonderful feeling to try and feed and cloth your growing children while making 300 dollars a week. It must make you feel so good, too, when the food stamps and welfare that you may need in times of trouble are takien away from you by the public who thinks you are a piece of garbage who is free-loading off their tax dollars.
You know I wish I was a poor or working poor woman who got raped. That sounds like it is just a great and very morally fulfilling life.
You think if I ask real nice-like God will turn me into a woman who has been throught these things? Would hedo it for me? Maybe you can pray for me. Heck while you're at it why don't you ask him to change you into a raped pregnant woman too. Then, we could actually talk about it on common ground from a common perspective.
Somehow I think we'd agree on a few more issues.
It's easy to ignore the nitty-gritty details of some peoples life and expect them to follow your, possibly privileged, life as their own.

I'm really sorry, Alpha. The first few sentances of this post I was answering you, but as you can see it turned into something a bit more generalized. I didn't mean to direct this at you. You obviously aren't the target of this. Just wanted to get some things off my chest.

Originally posted by meep-meep
Indeed. Isn't so wonderful to see a poor mother try and raise her children. You know those inner city schools really are just a hot-bed of extremely dedicated teachers who love working with children who are taught only what is necessary so that they pass standardized tests.
It has to be such a wonderful feeling to try and feed and cloth your growing children while making 300 dollars a week. It must make you feel so good, too, when the food stamps and welfare that you may need in times of trouble are takien away from you by the public who thinks you are a piece of garbage who is free-loading off their tax dollars.
You know I wish I was a poor or working poor woman who got raped. That sounds like it is just a great and very morally fulfilling life.
You think if I ask real nice-like God will turn me into a woman who has been throught these things? Would hedo it for me? Maybe you can pray for me. Heck while you're at it why don't you ask him to change you into a raped pregnant woman too. Then, we could actually talk about it on common ground from a common perspective.
Somehow I think we'd agree on a few more issues.
It's easy to ignore the nitty-gritty details of some peoples life and expect them to follow your, possibly privileged, life as their own.

I'm really sorry, Alpha. The first few sentances of this post I was answering you, but as you can see it turned into something a bit more generalized. I didn't mean to direct this at you. You obviously aren't the target of this. Just wanted to get some things off my chest.

Or God could turn you into my mother who raised me as a single woman with great dignity and determination.

Who chose not to abort me when that's what my dad wanted. Who told him to stick it. Who is not "hopeless, jobless, and dependent" because she chose to raise her son rather than kill him when she got pregnant unexpectedly.


Ya'll foos needs to grow up a little.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Or God could turn you into my mother who raised me as a single woman with great dignity and determination.

Who chose not to abort me when that's what my dad wanted. Who told him to stick it. Who is not "hopeless, jobless, and dependent" because she chose to raise her son rather than kill him when she got pregnant unexpectedly.


Ya'll foos needs to grow up a little.

Well that's very heartwarming, and obviously now you are here, you are glad that it happened that way. It's not the same story for everyone though, which is why the element of choice needs to be present.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Or God could turn you into my mother who raised me as a single woman with great dignity and determination.

Who chose not to abort me when that's what my dad wanted. Who told him to stick it. Who is not "hopeless, jobless, and dependent" because she chose to raise her son rather than kill him when she got pregnant unexpectedly.


Ya'll foos needs to grow up a little.

Well, I'm glad that you weren't aborted, but ya know what? Not all women have that same determination. Especially if they were raped. So good for your mom. She is a strong women, I imagine. I'm sure you feel very adamant in your opinions about abortion, too, considering your background. But remember, that is YOUR background. Did you grow up in the city? Were you on food stamps? Welfare? Were you poor. Was your mom addicted to cocaine? Are you the son of a rapist? If your mom dealt with at least a few of these issues than your mom is definitely one of those few you were able to "swim against the current" considering your sitting here talking with at least an opinion. But remember some kids grow up living in every single one of these conditions and sometimes even more hardships, like they themselves being raped.
Should kids be aborted so that they don't grow up in poverty? Nope, we shouldn't have poor to begin with so it isn't the kids fault. But adamant proabortion people put us into a conundrum by socially disregarding the poor families who don't chose to abort and at the same time attacking people whose abortions don't have as much as a societal affect as the poor children in this country.
I know a lot of these parente who give birth to kids in poverty that don't even think about abortion. I know one lady who has 4 kids. She doesn't work. She takes care of the kids. The husband, Rick, lost his job some time back and he's been looking for one since. They are POOR. What about these kids? So think about that.
So many people claim to preserve the sanctity of life by being against abortion. But they convientely forget about the kids who are alive. You know some of them claim if if their tax dollars didn't go to abortion they would be against it anyway. They support protecting life. What about kids in Indonesia who are sold for sex and work 12 hours a day just to make a few cents? Once that life is here that's it? You did your job. Life's here, and it's "saved."
Where's all this riighteousness when it comes to taking care of those children. Are you in those neighborhoods, helping the mothers and fathers to get jobs? Are you helping to put these kids through school so that they have a better understanding of these issues? No.
Inviting them to accept god as their savior is good enough, right?
A lot of women deal with these issues, and for anyone to say that a woman can't abort a child, as horrible as it is, when they were raped, is just sticking your nose into a life that you refuse to accept as real.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Or God could turn you into my mother who raised me as a single woman with great dignity and determination.

Who chose not to abort me when that's what my dad wanted. Who told him to stick it. Who is not "hopeless, jobless, and dependent" because she chose to raise her son rather than kill him when she got pregnant unexpectedly.

Ya'll foos needs to grow up a little.

I don't mean to be offensive, But by admiton on your own profile...



now you say that boot camp turned your life around... How many people in your boot camp came from single parent families??? I would say that kids raised in a single parent family tend to be a lot more screwed up then others... And most single parents couldn't cope these days...



A problem breeding another problem???

That's just sickening on S.Dakota's part

Originally posted by meep-meep
...Where's all this riighteousness when it comes to taking care of those children. Are you in those neighborhoods, helping the mothers and fathers to get jobs? Are you helping to put these kids through school so that they have a better understanding of these issues? No.
Inviting them to accept god as their savior is good enough, right?
A lot of women deal with these issues, and for anyone to say that a woman can't abort a child, as horrible as it is, when they were raped, is just sticking your nose into a life that you refuse to accept as real.

This entire post is straight pwnage, but I especially like this part here.

Kudos to meep-meep

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
This entire post is straight pwnage, but I especially like this part here.

Kudos to meep-meep
You keep using that word 'pwn'.

I do not think that it means what you think it means.

Why are these people allowed to be law makers, or in any position of power, when they haven't got any brains in their heads.

Rape is an act of violence, not passion. If a woman who is raped does not want to keep the child, because of an ''act of violence'' placed upon her, making her do so is cruel and extreamly backward.

This is too stupid - even for some Southern States in America.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness


Rape is an act of violence, not passion. If a woman who is raped does not want to keep the child, because of an ''act of violence'' placed upon her, making her do so is cruel and extreamly backward.



As well as being an oversimplistic generalisation, I'm not sure what the relevance of the motive behind the rape is here. It's not as if it would be more of a forgiving law if the man raped her for sexual purposes only.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
As well as being an oversimplistic generalisation, I'm not sure what the relevance of the motive behind the rape is here. It's not as if it would be more of a forgiving law if the man raped her for sexual purposes only.

Oversimplistic?
Rape is an act of violence - there is nothing simplistic about it.
Whether his motives were passionate or not was never my point nor have I commented upon it - act itself is violent - as my post stated above.

And it is relevant. If someone makes a woman keep a child which she obtained while she was raped, then they must certainly have different view of rape. If they saw it as an act of violence im sure raped woman would have more options in abortion.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oversimplistic?
Rape is an act of violence - there is nothing simplistic about it.
Whether his motives were passionate or not was never my point nor have I commented upon it - act itself is violent - as my post stated above.

And it is relevant. If someone makes a woman keep a child which she obtained while she was raped, then they must certainly have different view of rape. If they saw it as an act of violence im sure raped woman would have more options in abortion.

Well, I think the Law is more about Abortion than about Rape.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oversimplistic?
Rape is an act of violence - there is nothing simplistic about it.

Of course that is a simplistic interpretation. Rape is an absence of consent, so in many cases violence need not be involved. It's just one of those canards that people like to repeat.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

Whether his motives were passionate or not was never my point nor have I commented upon it - act itself is violent - as my post stated above.

Sorry, I misread the word 'passion'. I thought it said... 'passion'.


Originally posted by lil bitchiness

And it is relevant. If someone makes a woman keep a child which she obtained while she was raped, then they must certainly have different view of rape. If they saw it as an act of violence im sure raped woman would have more options in abortion.

Not at all, it's simply the extreme extrapolation of the pro-life argument. It's not a commentary on the nature of rape.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I think the Law is more about Abortion than about Rape.

I suppose If they banned all abortions cept for rape ones, How many women would lie and say it was a rape child just to get an abortion?? Seeing as there seems to be a growing trend in the amount of women who shout rape as a form of payback... It wouldn't surprise me if you saw the amount of "Rapes" double to compensate for lack of the "1 night stand" abortions...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I suppose If they banned all abortions cept for rape ones, How many women would lie and say it was a rape child just to get an abortion?? Seeing as there seems to be a growing trend in the amount of women who shout rape as a form of payback... It wouldn't surprise me if you saw the amount of "Rapes" double to compensate for lack of the "1 night stand" abortions...

Well imagine if you had to get a conviction before you could have the abortion. Craziness would ensue.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I suppose If they banned all abortions cept for rape ones, How many women would lie and say it was a rape child just to get an abortion?? Seeing as there seems to be a growing trend in the amount of women who shout rape as a form of payback... It wouldn't surprise me if you saw the amount of "Rapes" double to compensate for lack of the "1 night stand" abortions...

^ Exactly. B!tches would be lyin' left and right!---"He raped me!" "I was raped!" "I was taked advantage of!" etc......... blah blah blah...........just to get an abortion cuz the ho couldn't keep her legs closed.

You genuinely have despicable rationale on this issue, Bullets.

I mean sure, that happens, but you don't think any rape victim should be allowed to abort her baby do you?

-AC

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Well imagine if you had to get a conviction before you could have the abortion. Craziness would ensue.

I'm not saying its easier if they did or didn't, I'm just thinking practically what would happen??

And with all the people out there who Love to abuse Loop-holes in the law, I think this is what would happen...

I think its a case where its all or nothing... Either Allow abortions to all.. Or to none...

Personally I'm for allowing Abortions... But I think the time allowed should be tightened.. though I would have to read up on when I would like it though... Also I think the father should Have a bit more of a say in the matter...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I'm not saying its easier if they did or didn't, I'm just thinking practically what would happen??



I was just extrapolating on the idea you suggested.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You genuinely have despicable rationale on this issue, Bullets.

I mean sure, that happens, but you don't think any rape victim should be allowed to abort her baby do you?

-AC

No Centauri, I don't. You said it yourself it "happens". Hit and Miss didn't miss this time---he's right on the money. Abortions will skyrocket because women would be lyin', sayin' that some foo' raped them. Watch, it'll happen.

Why is my rationale despicable? Cuz Alpha Centauri doesn't agree?

No, your rationale is despicable because you believe women who are pregnant from rape should keep the "babies" based on "It's not the baby's fault she got porked against her will".

That's why it's despicable. It's not the baby's fault she got raped? It's not her fault she got raped either, so why should she say "Oh well, pregnant now, might as well have it. Isn't the foetuses fault"?

She is keeping that thing alive, SHE is allowing the offspring of a rapist to grow inside her, so she has every right to get rid of it if she wants to.

How you can even suggest what you are suggesting is downright pathetic and disgusting. People call me immoral, yet you've managed to slip under the radar. Insane.

-AC

Killing the child won't solve anything. It won't punish the rapist, nor will it allow you to go back in time to prevent the rape. It won't solve anything positive.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I was just extrapolating on the idea you suggested.

I suppose they would have to supply some form of proof that there was an incident... Like DNA of the rapist... I suspect that the police would be able to tell a fake rape from a real one, But it would waste alot of time...

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Killing the child won't solve anything. It won't punish the rapist, nor will it allow you to go back in time to prevent the rape. It won't solve anything positive.

Unless your name is Mary mother of god (and thus have the patience of a saint), I think your going to always see the horrible crime in the face of that child.. Most women will be unable to forget and will cause them to lapse back and forth between hate/loving the kid... This is not a good position for the child...

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
No Centauri, I don't. You said it yourself it "happens". Hit and Miss didn't miss this time---he's right on the money. Abortions will skyrocket because women would be lyin', sayin' that some foo' raped them. Watch, it'll happen.

Why is my rationale despicable? Cuz Alpha Centauri doesn't agree?

I'm sure they would require some evidence and not just take them, or reject them by their word.

I have spoken to a few people about this, and I am amazed by their attitude at this. They claim that the woman should have an abortion if she is raped, then she wouldn't have to worry about the rapists claiming parental rights. So, we punish women for making a choice she is entitled to?

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Killing the child won't solve anything. It won't punish the rapist, nor will it allow you to go back in time to prevent the rape. It won't solve anything positive.

What the hell are you talking about?

It will stop a woman knowing she gave birth to some rapist's offspring. Then the baby will live it's life born out of hate and rape.

What planet are you even living on?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What the hell are you talking about?

It will stop a woman knowing she gave birth to some rapist's offspring. Then the baby will live it's life born out of hate and rape.

What planet are you even living on?

-AC

I'm sayin' that killing the baby won't solve anything.

There are people alive today who are the product of a rape and lead normal healthy lives. They have families and careers. Its not like being the product of a rape curses you to a terrible life.

I live on Kashyyyk with the Wookies.

-DB

So what? That doesn't mean women have to give birth to rape pregnancy conceptions.

I don't really know how much clearer to lay it out. She was raped, for crying out loud. You say "Oh it's not the baby's fault." Who's fault was it that she GOT raped and GOT pregnant, so that the "baby" exists? Hers or the rapist's? Yes that's right, the rapist's. No woman should be forced to keep her child, especially rape victims.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So what? That doesn't mean women have to give birth to rape pregnancy conceptions.

I don't really know how much clearer to lay it out. She was raped, for crying out loud. You say "Oh it's not the baby's fault." Who's fault was it that she GOT raped and GOT pregnant, so that the "baby" exists? Hers or the rapist's? Yes that's right, the rapist's. No woman should be forced to keep her child, especially rape victims.

-AC

Says Who? You?

-DB

What part are you referring to? The part that no woman should be forced to keep her child, especially rape victims? Well, yes. Says me, says common sense and compassion, says a lot of things.

You believe females who are victims of rape, should have no choice but to give birth to the "child". There is no possible, credible way you can uphold that debate, as I've proven. Your own rationale even says how illogical and stupid it is (the fault business).

I think you just have a slight misogynistic leaning toward females, to be honest. I gather this from many other posts you've made.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What part are you referring to? The part that no woman should be forced to keep her child, especially rape victims? Well, yes. Says me, says common sense and compassion, says a lot of things.

You believe females who are victims of rape, should have no choice but to give birth to the "child". There is no possible, credible way you can uphold that debate, as I've proven. Your own rationale even says how illogical and stupid it is (the fault business).

I think you just have a slight misogynistic leaning toward females, to be honest. I gather this from many other posts you've made.

-AC

Well if that's your opinion, that's fine and dandy. I think its a good law and the other 49 states should follow suit.

btw: Why do you care about a law in South Dakota? You're on the the other side of the globe!

I don't "care", I just think it's disgusting because it is.

Your argument doesn't make sense. You say it's not the baby's fault she got raped, it's not her fault either. So seeing as how the baby came about through something that wasn't her fault, YOUR logic says that she should abort it.

-AC

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
^ Exactly. B!tches would be lyin' left and right!---"He raped me!" "I was raped!" "I was taked advantage of!" etc......... blah blah blah...........just to get an abortion cuz the ho couldn't keep her legs closed.

left and right? bitches? love the misogyny.
and i think thats the heart of the issue.
if the potential mother wants the fetus aborted because
she has a violent criminal's offspring growing inside her,
shes a b1tch. so then when she is forced to raise this unwanted
kid, and in the case where she is unable emotionally, financially, etc,
and the kid grows up to be another shit stain on society...guess who's
fault it is? yup. that b!tch of a mother. so convenient when you can
always just blame some b!tch, isnt it?

(and YES rape is violent, since its an unwanted physical assault
and penetration. violence doesnt have to involve punching and
kicking. )

Originally posted by PVS


(and YES rape is violent, since its an unwanted physical assault
and penetration. violence doesnt have to involve punching and
kicking. )

But it becomes rape because of the penetrated, not the penetrator.

Rape is mostly violent, It's just too much of a generalisation to say it always is.

Further, even if violence is always involved, the argument always put forth is that it is never sexual, and always about power.

That's an over-generalisation.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Further, even if violence is always involved, the argument always put forth is that it is never sexual, and always about power.

That's an over-generalisation.

They say that but why do the rapists go to such lengths as to actually cum? if it was about power they would just beat them like a ginger stepchild...

I'll agree its partly power but I think its also a lack of the ability to get any....

What's stopping them from talking to a girl rather than raping them?

Sometimes I am sure it's about need...................
Anyone ever have break up sex, when you're both rampant. Imagine if the girl got second thoughts half way through because I've felt I shouldn't be having break up se before so i'm sure girls do. Cause you know you're going to feel twice as shit in the morning when you can hardly look at each other.

People are complex, more complex than psychologists like to admit!!

Originally posted by meep-meep
What's stopping them from talking to a girl rather than raping them?

A complete lack of an ability to pull....

How many rapists are rich sucessful men with the looks of brad pit??

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
A complete lack of an ability to pull....

How many rapists are rich sucessful men with the looks of brad pit??

Some are, like the DJ who used to use GHB and Rohypnol in spain and raped over 200 women, using date rape techniques.

Dj in spain.... hardly successful..

I would conceder them the exception that proves the rule..
But I'm sure you would agree that your typical rapist isn't a looker or charming...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Dj in spain.... hardly successful..

I would conceder them the exception that proves the rule..
But I'm sure you would agree that your typical rapist isn't a looker or charming...

I think you'd be suprised the Rapists who jump people are the minority, most rape victims know the rapist and many are ex husbands and boyfriends!

Originally posted by meep-meep
What's stopping them from talking to a girl rather than raping them?

a lack of respect for women, or even a willingness to view them as human beings. thus the attitude that we should think of them as mere walking birth-machines with no reproductive rights. similar way of thinking, except one passes laws against them while the other just forcibly f***s them.