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I used search and nothing came up. I've heard somewhere (I forget) that Bandon could be considered around ROTS Anakin's level but how well would Bandon do against OT Darth Vader.

Vader.

Hm. OT Vader has a chance, but a younger, more aggressive Sith Lord would most likely prevail.

Bandon is good, don't get me wrong. I hate how KotOR portrayed your enemies. It makes them seem like they suck. Vader has more experience and training. I'm pretty sure he would win, although Bandon would put up a pretty good fight.

KoToR (1 and 2) would show your enemy as being overpowered are just weak. But I have to agree with mace here.

bandon has the speed here ill take him

I doubt Vader, a fighter who has a mobile iron lung and limited mobility can fend off Bandon, a double-bladed lightsabre user when Bandon starts to flurry Vader. Vader just doesn't have the speed, or mobility to deal with Bandon.

I sense Lord Vadah's in dangah...

I doubt that Bandon has the force powers to deal with Vader.

Yeah, i think Vader could take this. Bandon will put a fair fight no doubt but i think Vader would come out on top (not literally).

Originally posted by Darth Traya
I doubt Vader, a fighter who has a mobile iron lung and limited mobility can fend off Bandon, a double-bladed lightsabre user when Bandon starts to flurry Vader. Vader just doesn't have the speed, or mobility to deal with Bandon.

Agreed.

Darth Vader is not the strong Sith Lord everyone thought he was since in ROTJ he is easily defeated by Luke so in a duel it will go on for a while and Vader would win by a hair.

Vader threw the fight.

Yeah, and being beat by Luke isn't embarrassing or anything. Luke kicked ass, even in ROTJ. He was a full fledged Jedi, just as good as any PT Jedi, but with a lot more potential, raw force power, and he learned faster.

"Your skills are complete."- Darth Vader

Those three points are correct, but that doesn't make him better than a PT Jedi...

Originally posted by jollyjim311
He was a full fledged Jedi, just as good as any PT Jedi

WRONG.

GL gave an interview shortly before TPM. He said that in the OT, all you ever saw fight was a faded old man (Old Ben), a half-cyborg cripple (Vader), and a half-trained boy (Luke). And in contrast, the PT will show the golden age of proper saber fighting.

This is an argument for another thread, sorry for getting off topic. Anyway, Vader's force powers would, quite literally, crush Bandon.

Yep.

The way he crushed Luke with the force? LMAO!

^ Why would he crush the son he loves?

You mean like he did in ESB...wait he was trying to turn Luke.
Vader destroyed a medic lab just by getting mad.

And is trying to bring to the darkside.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
You mean like he did in ESB...wait he was trying to turn Luke.
Vader destroyed a medic lab just by getting mad.

Whup de do he destroyed a medic lab... zOMG!

yeah, cuz medic labs can fight back. Yoda can lift an X-Wing. Can he beat Bandon with just the force too? zOMG fanboyism!

Originally posted by Hello Friend
^ Why would he crush the son he loves?

Fine, you mean the way he crushed Old Ben?

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Fine, you mean the way he crushed Old Ben?

Good point. Touche.

Yep, he could only stalemate Kenobi, a Jedi who had been out of practice for twenty years...

The fact is, Bandon is an extremely dangerous Sith Lord from a time of where the Jedi fought the Sith. Bandon's mobility exceeds Vader, and Vader just simply does not have the speed or cabability to deal with Bandon flurrying him with his double-blade.

I'm just wondering why everyone assume's Bandon's force abilities to be crappy?

What oober sith ability did Vader learn that Bandon would not have access to? Choke?

Originally posted by Darth Traya
Yep, he could only stalemate Kenobi, a Jedi who had been out of practice for twenty years...
Out of practice? So what was he doing for twenty years? And didn't Vader defeat a clone of Maul?

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Out of practice? So what was he doing for twenty years? And didn't Vader defeat a clone of Maul?

Not canon, infinities series or something makes things up to see possible what ifs... so..

And defeating a clone of Maul and defeating Bandon are two different things, I would rank Bandon a fair bit higher then Maul.

Obi Wan clearly grew stronger in the force (through meditation and tutorage under Qui Gon). I can't see him being worse than he was in ROTS.

Originally posted by Fishy
Not canon, infinities series or something makes things up to see possible what ifs... so..

And defeating a clone of Maul and defeating Bandon are two different things, I would rank Bandon a fair bit higher then Maul.

Yeah but people keep saying Vader is this slow unskilled Sith Lord.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Yeah but people keep saying Vader is this slow unskilled Sith Lord.

Compared to others, yes. Vader isn't as bad as he's sometimes made out to be. But he definitly isn't as good as some people want him to be. Vader just hasn't shown any real skill with that lightsaber of his, or with the force to put him on the same level of Sith Lords that have proven things.

For his lightsaber abilities, I suggest you read either Dark Lord or Purge.

He loses his hand again in one of those, would have probably died if it wasn't for the stormtroopers showing up.

Wasn't Vader "slow" in the OT because of tech? Look at General Grievous who is just like Vader but moves about quickly. Ben was slow in the OT but they didn't use stunt doubles because look at Palpatine, Dooku, and even Yoda in the PT all older then Ben was in ANH.

No, the tech had nothing to do with it.. Vader was just slower then, he also isn't build the same way as GG. GG lost all his limbs Vader didn't... Also they were made in completely different ways.

They may have been made in completely different ways but it is likely that Sidious would have given Vader (his biggest hope) the best suit possible and definitely better than Grievous'.

Would have been logical, there is however no prove for that at all. So we can conclude that he didn't.

Sidious had them both built. Sidious wanted the Republic to win, because they were more powerful. He probably had GG built powerful, just not with the best things. He didn't want to hard of an opponent. Vader probably was built better than GG. It is very safe to assume that.

Originally posted by Fishy
He loses his hand again in one of those, would have probably died if it wasn't for the stormtroopers showing up.

If he did, it would have been in Purge, which I honestly haven't read. In DL, he owns six Jedi, easily, and is only hampered by the seventh, who is a notable swordmaster.

No, because Grievous' suit design is radically different to Vader's. Grievous lost most of his body, hereas Vader lost his limbs.

Hence, Grievous can have more mobility, because he is mainly a robot. But Vader needs a suit that can interlock into his legs and arms, hence why he isn't as mobile.

Oh and BTW, ANH Kenobi had been out of practice for twenty years. He did not fight any lightsabre wielders and he probably did'nt use his lightsabre for a long time.

I can see him improving in terms of force powers, but not in terms of lightsabre ranking.

Look, Vader is not the best sith lord. He is horrifically limited by his injuries.

Oh, I know he isn't the best. I also know he could be a lot better if he didn't get hacked up.

But I'm saying Vader isn't horrible either, and he can most likely take Bandon.

Originally posted by Faunus
If he did, it would have been in Purge, which I honestly haven't read. In DL, he owns six Jedi, easily, and is only hampered by the seventh, who is a notable swordmaster.

Fear the power of the Agri-Corps Jedi and the padawan's...

Originally posted by Guy LeDouche
Oh, I know he isn't the best. I also know he could be a lot better if he didn't get hacked up.

But I'm saying Vader isn't horrible either, and he can most likely take Bandon.

Why? How? Why is he superior to Bandon?

Well how much is known about Bandon, other than he was formerly a Jedi and an apprentice to Malak?

He was the best Sith out of thousands and was undefeated during the Jedi Civil War.

"Best" is a subjective term. Bandon was young, and could have been chosen for his potential, rather than his battle prowess.

Either way he was picked over many dark jedi as Malak's apprentice so he must have been exceptional in one way or another.

As was Vader. We also know more about Vader. Also, Vader was chosen out of thousands of people to be Sith.

Anakin was chosen because:

1) Plageous had a part in his making and it was all some evil Sith scheme.

Or

2) He had the right qualities to become a Sith. Hotheadness et cetera.

So, he was still extremely powerful.

And great potential... Palps picked out Anakin when Anakin was just a kid, he had been turning him for years. Bandon was another case he joined the Sith because he felt it was the right thing to do and then proved himself on Korriban to be great.

Malak could have picked Bandon for many reasons. He had great potential. He could have been very loyal where he wouldn't try to turn on Malak like Malak did with Revan.
It never said why Malak picked Bandon but that doesn't make him the strongest out of thousands. Palpatine picked Count Dooku and we all know Dooku wasn't the greatest PT Jedi/Sith. Palpatine also picked Anakin because Ani had great potential and he was loyal to Palpatine during the PT.

The huge difference there is however that Palpatine had a limited amount of people to pick from, he couldn't just turn any Jedi to his side. It took him years to turn the hot headed and arrogant Anakin, he turned Dooku because felt the end justified the means and because he had left the Jedi.

Malak had far more people to pick from, but you are right, Bandon was very lickely chosen because of his potential. It seems strange that a young man that was to young to join the Mandelorian wars just 3 years earlier would be powerful enough to rule over members of the Jedi Council and god knows how many Sith... Still not entirely impossible. But unlikely.

However Bandon has grown fast, he lives in a martial order and in times of war. He has not yet met his equal in lightsaber combat and many Jedi have fallen under his blade, he has to be good. Beat Vader? Prove of this I have not, however it is very likely.

Originally posted by Fishy
However Bandon has grown fast, he lives in a martial order and in times of war.

Wars not make one great -Yoda

That's something that's been bothering me. (Not you directly Fishy) Why is it that Revan/Malak whoever must be uber powerful because they were in a war(s)? If that was the case Grievous would have been a lot better because his planet was always at war with a neighboring species.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Wars not make one great -Yoda

That's something that's been bothering me. (Not you directly Fishy) Why is it that Revan/Malak whoever must be uber powerful because they were in a war(s)? If that was the case Grievous would have been a lot better because his planet was always at war with a neighboring species.

And he wasn't? He was a great general and fighter.

and wars make one great not in the meaning of Yoda, it does not make one see wisdom or truth, it does not bring out the best in people in many ways, it causes death and destruction and really all that Yoda hates or fights against.

Wars however and more so the threat of a war make army's trained into the greatest state. It makes people go beyond themselves to prove things, to become greater if not just honour and glory then for survival not just of themselves but of the entire republic. The Jedi Order in that day and age had many threats some that could destroy it, some that could have hurt it, these threats made people train, made people fight.

in the PT times the Jedi Order was used to peace, there biggest fights were against a bunch of Mandelorians where many of them died or against a bunch of criminals with blasters, this is not a time where they would prosper. Where there lightsabers skills would become great and where they would be used to fighting people of power. Unlike earlier times where that was the case.

That's why in KoToR some Jedi ran away from a couple of Sith Troopers?
I agree with a lot of things up there Fishy but look how great Yoda is and what we know about Yoda he was in the Clone War and that's the only war we know Yoda was in. Becoming a Jedi would still put you through intense training like it did in the Sith War era. Many call the PT Jedi weak because they basically got defeated in the Geosisian (not sure on spelling) Arena but they were outnumbered like 1 to 1,000.
I don't think living in a time of peace would make the training any easier like Luke said in Jedi Outcast:

"If being a Jedi was easy their would be thousands of us instead of dozens."

Look how well Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fought Maul. Maul was trained his entire life to fight the Jedi and like you said the common enemy of the Jedi at the PT time used blasters so the Jedi mainly focused on deflecting blaster bolts but is that all they did? Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon gave Maul a very difficult fight proving that the PT Jedi did do saber dueling training.
Obi-Wan was even defeating Maul in one on one until Maul force pushed him into the hole. I do believe some people give way to much credit to the KoToR Jedi just because they were in the Sith War.

tsdh

Really though, Anakin is at least 3rd greatest in the Order (some would argue 1st or 2nd). The PT Order had thousands of force users, so they could be compared to the KOTOR Sith.

Actually he was at most 3rd greatest in the order. There is no way he would be considered better then Yoda or Mace Windu.

Actually yes. I've heard many arguments that Anakin > Windu and Yoda, because:

Anakin beat Dooku (someone who beat Mace)

Anakin claims he's more powerful than the Chancellor.

And they dismiss his failure to Obi-Wan with:

Obi-Wan, as Anakin's mentor, knew all of his moves.
Anakin was overwhelmed by grief
Obi-Wan had the highground at the end.

All of these are true, but I still can't see these things dropping Anakin so much. That is why I disagree with Anakin being the strongest, even if it's possible.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
That's why in KoToR some Jedi ran away from a couple of Sith Troopers?
I agree with a lot of things up there Fishy but look how great Yoda is and what we know about Yoda he was in the Clone War and that's the only war we know Yoda was in. Becoming a Jedi would still put you through intense training like it did in the Sith War era. Many call the PT Jedi weak because they basically got defeated in the Geosisian (not sure on spelling) Arena but they were outnumbered like 1 to 1,000.
I don't think living in a time of peace would make the training any easier like Luke said in Jedi Outcast:

"If being a Jedi was easy their would be thousands of us instead of dozens."

Look how well Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fought Maul. Maul was trained his entire life to fight the Jedi and like you said the common enemy of the Jedi at the PT time used blasters so the Jedi mainly focused on deflecting blaster bolts but is that all they did? Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon gave Maul a very difficult fight proving that the PT Jedi did do saber dueling training.
Obi-Wan was even defeating Maul in one on one until Maul force pushed him into the hole. I do believe some people give way to much credit to the KoToR Jedi just because they were in the Sith War.

Jedi ran away from Sith troopers in Kotor? Where was that, I don't remember.

About Yoda, Yoda was the greatest of his time yes. However he never once managed to win a fight that we have seen. So how great was he really, he had terrible force powers a great force defense but his lightsaber skills were lacking. He jumped around but failed to strike, and Yoda was clearly the exception.

Obi Wan and QGJ were also exceptions, most members of the Jedi Order used a lightsaber form that wasn't good in anything it was just a way to move your lightsaber thats why they died at Geonosis, did you know that only Niman (or whatever the name of that form is) users died... Everybody that used a form that required a lot more training lived to see the end of it.

But on their fight, yeah they were doing great. But Maul had not been out of training for a very long time, weeks if I remember correctly. Then he came to Obi Wan and QGJ, and he did kill QGJ one of the most powerful people in the PT Jedi Order and highly respected...

Now that could speak for Maul, but Maul shows no real skill in that fight that hasn't been done far better by others. He doesn't use the force in ways that are impressive at least for as far as we see. Only force powers I know he has is choking and pushing. He really isn't all that good, would he have met Dooku for instance he would have been dead, or Yoda for that matter.

And really if one of the best Jedi the PT order has will die when fighting a relatively weak Sith apprentice, then I would be hate to see what the rest would do when facing the Sith of older days when they were still used to fighting great battles and kill many people even in lightsaber fights.

The Jedi were outnumbered 5,000 to 1 on Geonosis BTW

Originally posted by Hello Friend
The Jedi were outnumbered 5,000 to 1 on Geonosis BTW

Where they outnumbered 5.000 to 1 in the arena or in total? still if the Jedi would have had common sense and any kind of battle tactics, they would have been able to capture Dooku and win the battle of geonosis without a lot of problems and without even half the casualty's.

And I don't see why people dismiss Maul as weak. He was a Sith Lord who, according to the TPM, had incredible command of the force. Judging by choreography alone, he's a far better fighter than anyone in the PT. That may not be true canonically, but he's more powerful than Council Members.

He has 30 years of Sith training under Sidious. I also read somewhere that Maul was only a slightly worse duelist than Sidious, and that he almost bested him once.

Anakin was fourth to, Yoda, Mace, and Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Fishy
Where they outnumbered 5.000 to 1 in the arena or in total? still if the Jedi would have had common sense and any kind of battle tactics, they would have been able to capture Dooku and win the battle of geonosis without a lot of problems and without even half the casualty's.

There were 1,000,000 droids on Geonosis. Now that I think about it, I doubt all of them were in the Arena. But there were ALOT. And they were pouring in insects.

Originally posted by Guy LeDouche
Anakin was fourth to, Yoda, Mace, and Obi-Wan.

He was superior to Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Hello Friend
He was superior to Obi-Wan.

Proof?

Obi-Wan, as Anakin's mentor, knew most of his moves.
Anakin was overwhelmed by grief
Obi-Wan had the highground at the end.

Obi-Wan was more clever, Anakin was more powerful. I believe GL even says that during the ROTS DVD Commentary

Originally posted by Hello Friend
And I don't see why people dismiss Maul as weak. He was a Sith Lord who, according to the TPM, had incredible command of the force. Judging by choreography alone, he's a far better fighter than anyone in the PT. That may not be true canonically, but he's more powerful than Council Members.

He has 30 years of Sith training under Sidious. I also read somewhere that Maul was only a slightly worse duelist than Sidious, and that he almost bested him once.

He probably was superior to most council members, but does that say something about him or the council members?

He could not match the council members who knew what they were doing, Mace would have slaughtered him, Yoda would have, Obi Wan in ROTS would have, and those really are the only one's that have skill...

Originally posted by Fishy
Jedi ran away from Sith troopers in Kotor? Where was that, I don't remember.

About Yoda, Yoda was the greatest of his time yes. However he never once managed to win a fight that we have seen. So how great was he really, he had terrible force powers a great force defense but his lightsaber skills were lacking. He jumped around but failed to strike, and Yoda was clearly the exception.

Obi Wan and QGJ were also exceptions, most members of the Jedi Order used a lightsaber form that wasn't good in anything it was just a way to move your lightsaber thats why they died at Geonosis, did you know that only Niman (or whatever the name of that form is) users died... Everybody that used a form that required a lot more training lived to see the end of it.

But on their fight, yeah they were doing great. But Maul had not been out of training for a very long time, weeks if I remember correctly. Then he came to Obi Wan and QGJ, and he did kill QGJ one of the most powerful people in the PT Jedi Order and highly respected...

Now that could speak for Maul, but Maul shows no real skill in that fight that hasn't been done far better by others. He doesn't use the force in ways that are impressive at least for as far as we see. Only force powers I know he has is choking and pushing. He really isn't all that good, would he have met Dooku for instance he would have been dead, or Yoda for that matter.

And really if one of the best Jedi the PT order has will die when fighting a relatively weak Sith apprentice, then I would be hate to see what the rest would do when facing the Sith of older days when they were still used to fighting great battles and kill many people even in lightsaber fights.

Fact of the matter is their was around 1,000,000 battle droids fighting 200 Jedi Knights. 1,000,000/200. Throw in any 200 Jedi/Sith from KoToR (1/2) and they would still end up defeated if not for the arrival of the clone army.
Yoda had terrible force powers? Compared to whom? People can argue that Yoda defeated Dooku considering Dooku knocked over a pillar so Yoda would give time for the count to escape. And really, Revan (and Malak) shown no great force powers either.
The most we seen (I've seen any way) was Revan doing a force tornado thingy making the Sith unable to fight but the lighting Revan threw out just stunned them a little. It didn't send them flying 30 feet away like Palpatine did to Mace or crashing into a wall like Dooku did to Anakin.
Dooku seems to have better control of the force then Revan. Some argue that Revan is powerful because he went through dozens of Dark Jedi and Sith Droids on the Star Forge but was he alone? No. Did he face them all at once? No.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Fact of the matter is their was around 1,000,000 battle droids fighting 200 Jedi Knights. 1,000,000/200. Throw in any 200 Jedi/Sith from KoToR (1/2) and they would still end up defeated if not for the arrival of the clone army.
Yoda had terrible force powers? Compared to whom? People can argue that Yoda defeated Dooku considering Dooku knocked over a pillar so Yoda would give time for the count to escape. And really, Revan (and Malak) shown no great force powers either.
The most we seen (I've seen any way) was Revan doing a force tornado thingy making the Sith unable to fight but the lighting Revan threw out just stunned them a little. It didn't send them flying 30 feet away like Palpatine did to Mace or crashing into a wall like Dooku did to Anakin.
Dooku seems to have better control of the force then Revan. Some argue that Revan is powerful because he went through dozens of Dark Jedi and Sith Droids on the Star Forge but was he alone? No. Did he face them all at once? No.

Mace didn't have a hand anymore... Palps shooting him away isn't really that impressive neither is what Dooku did. And how would Kotor Jedi have done? I'm sure they would have managed to stand longer, more Jedi would have lived. They were used to war, they were trained for war they lived in times of war. Greatly trained soldiers preform better then those who are not prepared..

But you can't really compare those people wouldn't be stupid enough to do what the PT Jedi did, but thats more a sign that the PT generals suck then the warriors.

See, Yoda had 900 years under his belt, Mace Windu was a saber prodigy who mastered Vaapad, and Obi-Wan was THE master of Soresu. They were all the heavy hitters of their times. All three of these guys could contend with Sith Lords...

Fisto was also a brilliant duelist. On Geonosis, he fights magnificantly. But when compared to Sith Lords (who are superior to the average Jedi Master) he goes down quick. Doesn't say he's weak, seeing as how he pwned like 1000 droids in the Arena, but some people are so powerful they make him look weak.

Originally posted by Hello Friend
Obi-Wan, as Anakin's mentor, knew most of his moves.
Anakin was overwhelmed by grief
Obi-Wan had the highground at the end.

Obi-Wan was more clever, Anakin was more powerful. I believe GL even says that during the ROTS DVD Commentary

Obi-Wan's cleverness was part of his power. As was Anakin's, 'quick to react'.

Originally posted by Fishy
Mace didn't have a hand anymore... Palps shooting him away isn't really that impressive neither is what Dooku did. And how would Kotor Jedi have done? I'm sure they would have managed to stand longer, more Jedi would have lived. They were used to war, they were trained for war they lived in times of war. Greatly trained soldiers preform better then those who are not prepared..

But you can't really compare those people wouldn't be stupid enough to do what the PT Jedi did, but thats more a sign that the PT generals suck then the warriors.

Are you sure about that? In KoToR II wasn't the Jedi Order basically destroyed? You're saying that just because they were trained during times of war makes them great, bah!
Dooku with the force lifted Obi-Wan off his feet using force choke and tossed him across the room. Never seen Revan do anything that compares to that. Palpatine was lifting senate pods and tossing them left and right like they were toys. Never seen Revan do anything like that.
Yoda's force push on the Emperor threw him further then anyone I've seen in KoToR.
Not to mention you are basicing your reasons that the KoToR Jedi would do better when you basically only know a few of them. You're saying that 200 KoToR Jedi would do better then 200 PT Jedi against 1,000,000 Battle Droids. Didn't Lucas say before TPM that the PT would show the Jedi at their greatest?

Originally posted by Hello Friend
Actually yes. I've heard many arguments that Anakin > Windu and Yoda, because:

Anakin beat Dooku (someone who beat Mace)

Anakin claims he's more powerful than the Chancellor.

And they dismiss his failure to Obi-Wan with:

Obi-Wan, as Anakin's mentor, knew all of his moves.
Anakin was overwhelmed by grief
Obi-Wan had the highground at the end.

All of these are true, but I still can't see these things dropping Anakin so much. That is why I disagree with Anakin being the strongest, even if it's possible.

Dooku was ordered to loose to/not hurt Anakin. Mace also lost to Dooku years before, he grew much in power since then.

Lol since when has Anakin been a reliable source? He claimed that Obi-Wan was equal to Mace, and that he was better than them both.

That might be some of the reasons that Obi won over Anakin, but neither Yoda, Dooku or Mace would need such advantages. And Anakin knew Obi's style almost as well as he knew Anakin's, they needed to work effectivley as a team, so they learned from eachother. And Anakin not being able to control himself is a problem he has, no matter when you put him in a fight that will always be a disadvantage.

I believe Dooku beat Mace in the Clone Wars cartoon.
Anyways, yeah, it seems like the most logical deduction was that Dooku was holding back during the fight, however, the ROTS novel claims that Dooku goes all out at the end... and loses.

Maybe anger gave Anakin a huge boost? Who knows? I'm not saying I agree with the theory, I'm just saying it's possible.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Are you sure about that? In KoToR II wasn't the Jedi Order basically destroyed? You're saying that just because they were trained during times of war makes them great, bah!

RTFS first before you spout grarbage. The Jedi were destoryed by a combination of Sion's Sith assassins and Darth's Nihilus force eating thing. Not very fair to say that suck becuase of that.



*gasp* zOMG! He forced choked and tossed someone across the room wow what a uber acomplishment! I bet Revan could never do that! Oh the skill required to throw someone across the room would be beyond a powerful Sith Lord like Revan. See how stupid I sound? Look in the mirror Zodiak.



God forbid that you ever understand the concept of gravity.



zOMG! He can force push! Whup de do! SO WHAT?



Oh and so you know all ten thousand PT era Jedi? Logic will save your soul... a pity you have none.



Quote Please? Oh wait you don't have one.

*gasp* zOMG! He forced choked and tossed someone across the room wow what a uber acomplishment! I bet Revan could never do that! Oh the skill required to throw someone across the room would be beyond a powerful Sith Lord like Revan. See how stupid I sound? Look in the mirror Zodiak.

Well first off you must learn to spell correctly before you can try to bash anyone because even a two year old knows the difference between a 'c' and a 'k'.
Second the most we ever seen was Revan force choking anyone. He never lifted them off the ground or anything close to what Dooku did.

God forbid that you ever understand the concept of gravity.

Palpatine had no part in that, what was I thinking? Palpatine didn't break the senate pods off the platforms that held them or anything like that. We never once see Palpatine lift them above him before throwing them down one after another. Oh wait he did. The fact is they didn't fall straight down so Palpatine clearly had to put force into throwing the pods.

zOMG! He can force push! Whup de do! SO WHAT?

And most of the dark Jedi from KoToR are immune to force push as it says most of the time I try to use a force push.

Oh and so you know all ten thousand PT era Jedi? Logic will save your soul... a pity you have none.

No I don't know the ten thousand PT Jedi but if you had the ability to read I was defending those 200 Jedi at the arena from AtoC. I know the outcome of that fight because I say it on the film but never once have we seen 200 KoToR Jedi fight in the arena against thousands of battle droids.

w00t feat wars.

have you ever seen Vader control the Star Forge?? Have you ever seen Vader choke two Jedi and then shoot one with lightning while using a lightsaber throw to kill the other? Have you ever seen Vader push a sith trooper into a control panel?

Does that mean he couldn't? well in this case for most yes, but then again Bandon probably couldn't do half of that either. But really Vader his skills were never ever shown to be great compared to others, or even good. The most he does with the force is throw around things and choke.

"*gasp* zOMG! He forced choked and tossed someone across the room wow what a uber acomplishment! I bet Revan could never do that! Oh the skill required to throw someone across the room would be beyond a powerful Sith Lord like Revan. See how stupid I sound? Look in the mirror Zodiak."

He choked the fourth (or third) greatest in the whole damn Order and tossed him around like a ragdoll. This isn't just "someone". Don't downplay this.

Anyways, this is besides the point...

Oh and Fishy, Vader does something similar in Purge.

Originally posted by Fishy
Does that mean he couldn't? well in this case for most yes, but then again Bandon probably couldn't do half of that either. But really Vader his skills were never ever shown to be great compared to others, or even good. The most he does with the force is throw around things and choke.

Actually, in Purge and RODV he does more. I *heard* he takes on eight, count 'em eight Jedi Masters in Purge... If only I could find that comic.

Also, alot of Vader's suposed power comes from the fact that he's "80% of Sidious". I can't be crystal clear of what this means, since I don't know, but I think it means that Vader is nearly as powerful as Sidious. as of ROTJ, who SHOULD be stronger than ROTS Sidious...

80% of sidious in what? Farting ability? Pie eating contest? In what? It means shit.

and in purge he does kill 8 masters want to know how? He walks in stabs one of them, throws another one at the wall.

he then snaps the neck of another Jedi that he catches as the Jedi jumps at him. Vader then gets disarmed pretty damn quickly, literally as he loses his arm against the first Jedi that seems to know what she is doing. After that he begs for mercy, the remaining five Jedi refuse to kill him. One however thinks otherwise kills one of his friends turns to the Dark side effectively. Grabs her lightsaber and attacks Vader. Vader uses the force to throw a knife into the jumping Jedi and takes the lightsaber.

Three remain, one of which is the most powerful of the group. Stormtroopers come in, and they do the rest. Vader would have been dead if it wasn't for the stormtroopers or a Jedi turning to the Dark side. He killed four, four were killed by themselves or stormtroopers. Also note those were the four with skill.

The first Jedi he kills was a Padawan if I remember correctly that charged at him and another he kills was so consumed by the Dark Side he couldn't think logically anymore. Really not all that impressive if you know what happened, he barely died there.

Originally posted by Fishy
80% of sidious in what? Farting ability? Pie eating contest? In what? It means shit.


It is vague, but I think the point was brought up when someone asked if Vader was more powerful than the Emporer, and then Lucas said he was only 80% of him.

I'm sure 80% as strong as Sidious would most likely refer to over all abilities in combat.

And thats probably in potential, as thats what Lucas always talks about. And 80% as powerful doesn't mean 80% as skilled..

No, it was as of ROTJ.

Originally posted by Fishy
80% of sidious in what? Farting ability? Pie eating contest? In what? It means shit.

and in purge he does kill 8 masters want to know how? He walks in stabs one of them, throws another one at the wall.

he then snaps the neck of another Jedi that he catches as the Jedi jumps at him. Vader then gets disarmed pretty damn quickly, literally as he loses his arm against the first Jedi that seems to know what she is doing. After that he begs for mercy, the remaining five Jedi refuse to kill him. One however thinks otherwise kills one of his friends turns to the Dark side effectively. Grabs her lightsaber and attacks Vader. Vader uses the force to throw a knife into the jumping Jedi and takes the lightsaber.

Three remain, one of which is the most powerful of the group. Stormtroopers come in, and they do the rest. Vader would have been dead if it wasn't for the stormtroopers or a Jedi turning to the Dark side. He killed four, four were killed by themselves or stormtroopers. Also note those were the four with skill.

The first Jedi he kills was a Padawan if I remember correctly that charged at him and another he kills was so consumed by the Dark Side he couldn't think logically anymore. Really not all that impressive if you know what happened, he almost died there.

And you also conveniently forgot to mention why he lost his arm:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/JawaKing_987/800px-Cortosisduel.jpg

The "first girl who knew what she was doing" used a cortosis sword to shut off his lightsaber; then, he snapped her neck. Until then, he's pwning the Jedi left and right.

And that's Purge Darth Vader, not ESB Vader, who had 20 years to gain experience and become stronger.

Originally posted by Faunus
And you also conveniently forgot to mention why he lost his arm:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/JawaKing_987/800px-Cortosisduel.jpg

The "first girl who knew what she was doing" used a cortosis sword to shut off his lightsaber; then, he snapped her neck. Until then, he's pwning the Jedi left and right.

That did sound like it would effect Vader.

I thought he killed her took her sword then lost his arm against another person...

I need to read the comic again...