AOTC Anakin vs ROTJ Luke

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vpokdekjyafmidp
settingis in the death star

its

padawan vs padawan
accomplished and skilled padawan vs non skilled padawan with barely any accomplishements, however with lots of fans

aotc anakin wins

Captain REX
Anakin, definitely.

Dooku may have been toying with him, but it cannot be said that Anakin was a terrible swordsman.

Originally, George was going to have Anakin nick Dooku in a sort of 'Luke hitting Vader's shoulder' fashion.

((The_Anomaly))
Anakin would oWn. Even in AOTC he was a better swordsman then his own master.

All Luke was a master of in ROTJ was the 00ber 1337 'Ninja Scream'...

Luke would get owned in a matter of seconds by AOTC Annie. If Anakin would hang with Dooku (one of THE best swordsman in the galaxy) for a good time, then Luke stands absolutely no chance. Plus Anakin has more force potential, and had spent roughly 10-11 years learning how to use it, as well as spent that time practicing a REAL lightsaber style and had got pretty damn good at it.

Anakin WTFpwns.

Captain REX
Though, Dooku was pretty much toying with him...

((The_Anomaly))
Perhaps, there were a few incidences where Dooku looked a bit surprised at Anakin's skill though.

Captain REX
Fair enough.

As I said, originally Anakin was going to nick him somehow. But, seeing as Dooku isn't wearing armor...not really possible.

DiamondBullets
This fight is wierd for the fact that Luke is older than his father.

Fishy
Doesn't really matter though, Luke would get Pwned.

vpokdekjyafmidp
where are the luke fanboys?

Darth_Glentract
This fight is wierd for the fact that Luke is older than his father

Anakin was 19 in AOTC, Luke is 22 or so in ROTJ. Still a weird situation, but Anakin's not quite older.

Luke takes Anakin. Anakin didn't necessarily have more force potential. Now, he probably did, but there is nothing that says that Luke could have a greater potential.

Anakin has more training, but Luke was trained to be a weapon and was trained much more quickly. Do you really think Obi-wan had Anakin using the force to hold objects in the air within a day or two of beginning his training? Why do you think Obi-wan and Yoda didn't tell Luke about his father? Because Luke was in training to be weapon against Vader and the Emperor.

There also is zero proof that Vader faked the fight with Luke in ROTJ. For most of the fight, in the beginning parts, Luke was holding back as he didn't want to fight Vader, but he actually wanted to turn him back to the Lightside of the Force. Why would Vader want to turn Luke to the Darkside at that time? If he did so, he would die. We know Vader didn't want to die, but instead kill the Emperor. He couldn't do that if he was dead.

Luke wins.

Darth Traya
Zero proof? You have no understanding of emotion...

Anakin takes this with minimal ease.

Fishy
Actually Vader talks about turning Luke to the dark side and overthrowing the Emperor only moments before he arrives at the death star at the start of ROTJ. I doubt his opinion changed in days, when it couldn't in months. Also Luke may have trained faster then others because of the time, but still days don't make up for years.

http://www.swcomics.com/arhive/ShadowsoftheEmpire/ShadowsoftheEmpire_149.jpg

Darth_Glentract
How would letting Luke defeat/possibly kill him during the fight accomplish that though?

((The_Anomaly))
The "zOMG!!11 luke is teh 1337 00ber jedi and he pWns J00 n00b!!111 LOLZzz!!" fanboys always amuse me.

Anakin takes this while having sex with Padme at the same time.

Darth_Glentract
Is me saying that Luke defeat whiny little Anakin me calling Luke an uber jedi? I think not.

Fishy
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
How would letting Luke defeat/possibly kill him during the fight accomplish that though?

Because being defeaten in a fight doesn't mean you die... He wanted Luke to give in to his anger when he has done that, he is stopped and bam you have a new Dark Side apprentice.

Vader probably for some reason figured the rule of two would be over from that moment one because the Sith had already won, Dooku believed it would end soon enough too when he was still in command of the seperatist army's... He really didn't expect to die, just hoped to get Luke angry enough to turn him to the Dark Side.

Guy LeDouche
Really, how would letting Luke win accomplish anything? It wouldn't. Luke is good, or Vader is an idiot. You pick. I'm a fanboy? Phh. People like you amuse me. Luke hater.


(@:Anomaly.)

Fishy
Have you even read my post?

((The_Anomaly))
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Is me saying that Luke defeat whiny little Anakin me calling Luke an uber jedi? I think not.

10 years of lightsaber/ force training, with more raw force potential. vs. 6 months of force training and no lightsaber training at all..

Anakin WTFpwns.

Darth_Glentract
10 years of lightsaber/ force training

Luke has 6 months of training, but we saw that Luke was doing things in the first day or two that Anakin wouldn't have been doing for weeks, if not months(lifting mutiple objects with the force at the same time). We also know that Luke was trained to be a weapon to defeat Vader and the Emperor. Anakin was trained to keep the peace.

with more raw force potential.

A totally unproven assumption. Why couldn't Luke have more force potential then Anakin?

and no lightsaber training at all..

Luke began training with a lightsaber in the first hour or two of his training. Luke continued to train at Ben's house for months after that. Luke has also engaged in more real lightsaber duels then Anakin and is more experince in that department.

Random side note, Luke has the Kaiburr crystal, which increases his force power by a little.

Guy LeDouche
'zOMG' Anak1n h@s m@st3r3d teh uber 1337 pwnage crybaby SKILLz!

docb77
neither side makes any sense! this is just "I hate luke fanboys" vs Luke fanboys.

Luke was trained as a weapon. He was supposed to be good. I actually enjoyed the ROTJ duel. Much more involving than the PT duels.

That said, based on the films, it does seem that anakin was about 10 times as good, it would be like a brown belt(the level before black) vs a yellow belt(you've learned some, but have a long ways to go)

vpokdekjyafmidp
yes

Fishy
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
10 years of lightsaber/ force training

Luke has 6 months of training, but we saw that Luke was doing things in the first day or two that Anakin wouldn't have been doing for weeks, if not months(lifting mutiple objects with the force at the same time). We also know that Luke was trained to be a weapon to defeat Vader and the Emperor. Anakin was trained to keep the peace.

Even so, train peacekeepers for years and a soldier for a month and the peacekeeper would still be better. And lifting things, in ESB he could hardly draw his lightsaber towards him...



True



Luke fought Vader twice, Anakin fought Dooku a shit load of seperatist droids and god knows how many people in practice matches. Luke wouldn't even have survived Geonosis. And lightsaber training, we see him deflect a few shots from a training droid. Things Luke let noobs do that first arrived at the accademy later on and things that we see younglings do in AOTC... I'm pretty sure Anakin his training would have been far more intense.

and he trained at obi's house for months? How and when is that, during ESB and ROTJ he constructs a lightsaber and says he could barely figure out how to do it, but he did and then he goes off finding Han, not much time to train and definitly not with a lightsaber seeing as he ran of only seconds after finishing it.



Didn't IKC disprove this? Even if he didn't, doesn't matter the crystal is never shown during the movies, its not even known if he still had it, and you yourself said it weakened when it wasn't near its homeplay... And would the crystal give him lightsaber skills?

Arker
Why do people still insist that Luke could win?

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Fishy
Even so, train peacekeepers for years and a soldier for a month and the peacekeeper would still be better. And lifting things, in ESB he could hardly draw his lightsaber towards him...

It still lessens the disadvantage Luke has in training time by a considerable amount. And look at Nomi. She'd pwn Anakin yet she has about the same amount of training as Luke.

Notice that in ESB when Luke could barely pull his lightsaber from the snow the only training he had was from Obi-wan. I doubt anyone else could pull a lightsaber for them with 10 hours of training.

Originally posted by Fishy
Luke fought Vader twice, Anakin fought Dooku a shit load of seperatist droids and god knows how many people in practice matches. Luke wouldn't even have survived Geonosis. And lightsaber training, we see him deflect a few shots from a training droid. Things Luke let noobs do that first arrived at the accademy later on and things that we see younglings do in AOTC... I'm pretty sure Anakin his training would have been far more intense.

Luke fought Vader three times. The first time was in Splinter of the Minds Eye. Obi-wan heavily influenced Luke during the fight to keep him alive, but Luke still did some against Vader. Luke also had the Kaiburr crystal with him, making him very powerful for a short period of time and allowing him to keep up with Vader with Obi-wan's help.

To say Luke wouldn't have survived Geonosis is shaky. Padme and C-3PO survived it, why can;t Luke? Luke has demonstrated blaster deflection mutiple times through out ROTJ and he has shown the ability to fight many people at the same time. In ROTJ he killed something like 19 guys on the Sail Barges. These 19 guys are far better then any 19 Battle Droids, as it was said repeatedly throughout EU that droids could never match living flesh as soliders. Especially since one of the people Luke was fighting at the Sail Barge was Boba, who could easily destroy dozens of Battle Droids.

I don't see what you mean about Luke and his Academy and then Younglings. Luke's training for his students was very difficult compared to anything we have seen from the PT Order. Luke had them training with lightsabers within a week or two of getting there. Luke also had one exercise that submitted his students to water that was more then hot enough to kill a person. Luke obviously wouldn't have let any of them die, but one of the students was certain she was going to die during the exercise. I doubt the Younglings went through anything like that.

Originally posted by Fishy
and he trained at obi's house for months? How and when is that, during ESB and ROTJ he constructs a lightsaber and says he could barely figure out how to do it, but he did and then he goes off finding Han, not much time to train and definitly not with a lightsaber seeing as he ran of only seconds after finishing it.

During the time between the ESB and before he goes off to find Han he trained at Obi-wan's house. That was a period of several months.

Notice that Luke did construct his own lightsaber within only a few months of training, but Anakin didn't make his until after several years of training. Another sign that Luke's training was for more intense then Anakin's.

Originally posted by Fishy
Didn't IKC disprove this? Even if he didn't, doesn't matter the crystal is never shown during the movies, its not even known if he still had it, and you yourself said it weakened when it wasn't near its homeplay... And would the crystal give him lightsaber skills?

IKC's evidence against it was shaky at best. He claims that neither The New Essential Guide to Chronology isn't canon and the Splinter of the Minds Eye isn't canon. His 'proof' is that the things aren't mentioned in later books, even though I gave an explanation for that that he was never able to knock down.

We know that Luke still had the crystal as far as 36 A.B.Y. because a piece of it was in his lightsaber, acting as the focusing crystal.

Why would it be shown during the movies? It's not like Luke needs to bring it out to use it. It could be in his pocket.

Even though it's weakened when it's not on the planet is still increase his power. It was rumored to make the person holding it a thousand times mroe powerful then they would normally be, but that is obviously MAJOR hyperbole. Even if it only made the user three times as strong, the thought that it wouldn't increase Luke's power by at least a few percent elsewhere would require some explaining. Say it makes Luke ten percent stronger then he would otherwise be, that may be just enough to allow him to defeat Anakin.

Kaithen

((The_Anomaly))
Lucas has said that Anakin would have been the best ever had he reached his full potential. Anakin had more force potential then Luke. Anakin was the chosen ONE, Luke was not.

Fishy
Luke knew how to use a blaster, have we ever even seen Anakin use a blaster? If he couldn't use his force powers he would just be dead. I mean what chance would he have against somebody that also has the force and training with a blaster.

Its not like you can just give a Jedi a weapon and he would be good with it.

Guy LeDouche
Obi-Wan seemed to work well with a blaster.....

((The_Anomaly))
Why are we talking about blasters?

Guy LeDouche
I have no freakin' clue.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Lucas has said that Anakin would have been the best ever had he reached his full potential. Anakin had more force potential then Luke. Anakin was the chosen ONE, Luke was not.

I want an exact quote from Lucas with an avaliable source. I also want proof that Lucas was referring to all characters in EU rather then just what is shown in the movies. The statement could easily imply that full potential Anakin would be stronger then anyone else that we saw in the movies, not that those other people are necessarily at full potential.

Fishy
Because I couldn't read and replied in a wrong thread...



Luke is a movie character, if Lucas said that it would affect him, unless Luke goes against the movies in wich case he wouldn't be canon..

Captain REX
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Why would Vader want to turn Luke to the Darkside at that time? If he did so, he would die. We know Vader didn't want to die, but instead kill the Emperor. He couldn't do that if he was dead.

I'm slapping you for that. Good and hard.

Kaithen
Do anyone think ROTJ Luke can take ROTS Obi? huh? HUH?

*birds singing*

No... thats what i tought..

Captain REX
I don't see how that's relevant.

Kaithen
Sorry i tought it was ROTS Anakin stick out tongue

Wesker
Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
The "zOMG!!11 luke is teh 1337 00ber jedi and he pWns J00 n00b!!111 LOLZzz!!" fanboys always amuse me.

Anakin takes this while having sex with Padme at the same time.

I am stealing this quote.

AOTC Anakin wins this. ROTJ Luke has no prayer in hell.

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