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How do you guy's think it started?

I don't know?????????

Possibly there are many theories, and yet non are set, cause they all have holes in them.....So, why can't we combine them. Why not think there was some kind of intelligence that had to do with us evolving?...And also, why couldn't it also be that it had to do with quantum physics with other dimensions as well overlapping with ours to bring life here from somewhere else?.........It's all just theories...Nothing in concrete IMO.

There is no point of creation, the universe is part of God and God has no beginning and no end. Time is an illusion.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no point of creation, the universe is part of God and God has no beginning and no end. Time is an illusion.

That's like me I don't really believe in it's creation either I believe the universe was always there.

Not that I believe in the literal story of Adam and eve, but why can't there be a convergence of intelligence and evolution?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Not that I believe in the literal story of Adam and eve, but why can't there be a convergence of intelligence and evolution?

From what I studied science hasn't explained why homosaipiens are the only hominids and why we progressed so fast.

like this:

About 15 billion years ago a tremendous explosion started the expansion of the universe. This explosion is known as the Big Bang. At the point of this event all of the matter and energy of space was contained at one point. What exisisted prior to this event is completely unknown and is a matter of pure speculation. This occurance was not a conventional explosion but rather an event filling all of space with all of the particles of the embryonic universe rushing away from each other. The Big Bang actually consisted of an explosion of space within itself unlike an explosion of a bomb were fragments are thrown outward. The galaxies were not all clumped together, but rather the Big Bang lay the foundations for the universe.

The origin of the Big Bang theory can be credited to Edwin Hubble. Hubble made the observation that the universe is continuously expanding. He discovered that a galaxys velocity is proportional to its distance. Galaxies that are twice as far from us move twice as fast. Another consequence is that the universe is expanding in every direction. This observation means that it has taken every galaxy the same amount of time to move from a common starting position to its current position. Just as the Big Bang provided for the foundation of the universe, Hubbles observations provided for the foundation of the Big Bang theory.

Since the Big Bang, the universe has been continuously expanding and, thus, there has been more and more distance between clusters of galaxies. This phenomenon of galaxies moving farther away from each other is known as the red shift. As light from distant galaxies approach earth there is an increase of space between earth and the galaxy, which leads to wavelengths being stretched.

In addition to the understanding of the velocity of galaxies emanating from a single point, there is further evidence for the Big Bang. In 1964, two astronomers, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, in an attempt to detect microwaves from outer space, inadvertently discovered a noise of extraterrestrial origin. The noise did not seem to emanate from one location but instead, it came from all directions at once. It became obvious that what they heard was radiation from the farthest reaches of the universe which had been left over from the Big Bang. This discovery of the radioactive aftermath of the initial explosion lent much credence to the Big Bang theory.

Even more recently, NASAs COBE satellite was able to detect cosmic microwaves eminating from the outer reaches of the universe. These microwaves were remarkably uniform which illustrated the homogenity of the early stages of the universe. However, the satillite also discovered that as the universe began to cool and was still expanding, small fluctuations began to exist due to temperature differences. These flucuatuations verified prior calculations of the possible cooling and development of the universe just fractions of a second after its creation. These fluctuations in the universe provided a more detailed description of the first moments after the Big Bang. They also helped to tell the story of the formation of galaxies which will be discussed in the next chapter.

The Big Bang theory provides a viable solution to one of the most pressing questions of all time. It is important to understand, however, that the theory itself is constantly being revised. As more observations are made and more research conducted, the Big Bang theory becomes more complete and our knowledge of the origins of the universe more substantial.

http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
From what I studied science hasn't explained why homosaipiens are the only hominids and why we progressed so fast.

The hominids almost went extinct, but we were saved by a genetic mutation that allow us to turn a disadvantage into an advantage. Most of this picture is missing from the fossil record, so it is just a guess.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
like this:

About 15 billion years ago a tremendous explosion started the expansion of the universe. This explosion is known as the Big Bang. http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm

And what started the "Big Bang??"

Originally posted by debbiejo
^^ And what started the "Big Bang??"

No one knows for sure! Sorry Bebbie even I don't know that.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
No one knows for sure! Sorry Bebbie even I don't know that. So see....This is not a fact. It could be part of a fact, but not the whole true of it all.................That's all I'm saying..........


And It's still Debbie, not Bebbie...

Originally posted by debbiejo
And what started the "Big Bang??"

Matter can't be destroyed or created and scientist say the universe infinity you can't create infinite so that theory is flawed I just think the universe was always there.

Originally posted by debbiejo
And what started the "Big Bang??"
The big crunch. The universe is like a blinking light in the nothingness.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The big crunch. The universe is like a blinking light in the nothingness. Now you're talking Cabala...The big crunch is Bannah?...

The Source is what just is(Father/Male)...Like energy, the big crunch or big squeeze is the famine side of Bannah....the force that makes it into reality...Hence squeezes it into existence....The movable force....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Now you're talking Cabala...The big crunch is Bannah?...

The Source is what just is(Father/Male)...Like energy, the big crunch or big squeeze is the famine side of Bannah....the force that makes it into reality...Hence squeezes it into existence....The movable force....

I knew it was something like that.

i think all that we see is nuthing more than thoughts, memories, intelligence, counciousness etc. i dont believe anything material truly EXISTS.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i think all that we see is nuthing more than thoughts, memories, intelligence, counciousness etc. i dont believe anything material truly EXISTS.

Don't say that. the universe will unravel.

So are we agreeing that what we would call god would be Male/Female energies?....Like Yin/Yang.....Chokman/Male, Binah/Female in kabblah (which is quite hebrew), Wiccan God/Goddess?....Which in our image was manifested in Male/Female?

Originally posted by debbiejo
So are we agreeing that what we would call god would be Male/Female energies?....Like Yin/Yang.....Chokman/Male, Binah/Female in kabblah (which is quite hebrew), Wiccan God/Goddess?....Which in our image was manifested in Male/Female?

All of that is part of God.

we are but a bubble of thought roaming blindly in the ocean of noothingness, with no beginning and no end as these are concepts that we ourselves have thought up. oblivion is the beginning and the end, or nuthing at all. we dont really exist, WE just think we do.

Then what's the problem with people???????..........Must everything be male?...........Though males are quite nice........you do need a female to make it worth while/wild........... HAHHAHHA

Originally posted by debbiejo
Then what's the problem with people???????..........Must everything be male?...........Though males are quite nice........you do need a female to make it worth while/wild........... HAHHAHHA

If all energies were masculine then the universe would be a huge sausage fest

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
If all energies were masculine then the universe would be a huge sausage fest Perhaps, god we being made in gods image would be to separate the difference between the male and female energies but in a local image and them coming together to support them to one another....Maybe???

well one thing though I've notice even though it's off topic is that dieties seem to have human characteristics and there usually male and female it could be possible that there are lesser gods...at least I believe.

the universe started as a singularity that exploded and cooled forming all matter and the 4 forces. Time is how we percieve the universe's expansion.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
the universe started as a singularity that exploded and cooled forming all matter and the 4 forces. Time is how we percieve the universe's expansion.

But that leads to the question: were did the singularity come from?

if one of the cosmological models is right and universe is cyclical, it came from a "big crunch"

Originally posted by Darth Jello
if one of the cosmological models is right and universe is cyclical, it came from a "big crunch"

Then we are in agreement.

who ever said it was created?

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
who ever said it was created?

The bible.

Originally posted by debbiejo
So see....This is not a fact. It could be part of a fact, but not the whole true of it all.................That's all I'm saying..........


And It's still Debbie, not Bebbie...

Whats Debbie, Bebbie?

isn't it possible that the universe always was and always will be? we already know our concept of time is flawed, a flawed concept with a purpose, so how do we know that it's just not something we can't fathom?

Is it so farfetched to say that the universe always did and always will exist?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The bible.

right, cause the Bible was right about everything else

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
isn't it possible that the universe always was and always will be? we already know our concept of time is flawed, a flawed concept with a purpose, so how do we know that it's just not something we can't fathom?

Is it so farfetched to say that the universe always did and always will exist?

I agree considering space goes on forever and most of the universe is occupied by endless dark matter,I understand planets being created but not the universe it self.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
we are but a bubble of thought roaming blindly in the ocean of noothingness, with no beginning and no end as these are concepts that we ourselves have thought up. oblivion is the beginning and the end, or nuthing at all. we dont really exist, WE just think we do. Don't sell yourself short...We are all infinite.............This is only but a temporary............since energy cannot be destroyed........This is only possibly(according to some believes)...........a learning experience.

This is not the final................

Originally posted by debbiejo
And what started the "Big Bang??"

First thing I gotta ask is: what does everyone here mean by the "universe?"

Do you mean the observable bubble of luminous matter: stars, galaxies, etc, pus "dark matter" and "dark energy?" And it may not end there. Inflation and the effect of dark energy suggest that the Observable Bubble is but a tiny point at the center of a far, far vaster bubble (eg, think proton at the center of the Earth as the Observable Bubble, and the whole Earth as the Entire Bubble).

If this is what you mean by "universe," then, as pointed out, it began as a huge explosion some 14 gigayears back, originating from a singularity. Why did the singularity explode? Some have suggested because it was unstable. Why was it unstable? Why not?

If by "universe" you mean All There Ever Was, All There Is (outside of which exists nothing) and All There Ever Will Be, well, then, the answer to the question of creation is obvious.

Given the second scenario, our Bubble is but one of an infinite number, existing in a Multi-/Meta-/Omni-verse where unstable universe-bubbles are "flashing" in and out existence all the time, in a way similar to how virtual particles in our spacetime come and go (but, of course, on a much larger time scale, where an "instant" in the Multiverse is, say, 10^1000 years our time).

Some have even suggested that this Omniverse is infinitely fractal in nature.

God I love this stuff

Originally posted by Mindship
First thing I gotta ask is: what does everyone here mean by the "universe?"

Do you mean the observable bubble of luminous matter: stars, galaxies, etc, pus "dark matter" and "dark energy?" And it may not end there. Inflation and the effect of dark energy suggest that the Observable Bubble is but a tiny point at the center of a far, far vaster bubble (eg, think proton at the center of the Earth as the Observable Bubble, and the whole Earth as the Entire Bubble).

If this is what you mean by "universe," then, as pointed out, it began as a huge explosion some 14 gigayears back, originating from a singularity. Why did the singularity explode? Some have suggested because it was unstable. Why was it unstable? Why not?

If by "universe" you mean All There Ever Was, All There Is (outside of which exists nothing) and All There Ever Will Be, well, then, the answer to the question of creation is obvious.

Given the second scenario, our Bubble is but one of an infinite number, existing in a Multi-/Meta-/Omni-verse where unstable universe-bubbles are "flashing" in and out existence all the time, in a way similar to how virtual particles in our spacetime come and go (but, of course, on a much larger time scale, where an "instant" in the Multiverse is, say, 10^1000 years our time).

Some have even suggested that this Omniverse is infinitely fractal in nature.

God I love this stuff

I mean the universe + everything that has, is or will be + everthing that hasn't, is not, and will never be + more.

I think I do................exist that is.......Mindship

Well, now, things are that much clearer.

jerry

everything from the greatest to the most trivial concept/feeling/understand exists in our MIND. the universe does not exist only what WE FEAL to be the universe exists, in short only thoughts exist and nuthing material really does.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I think I do................exist that is.......Mindship

I think, therefore I am.

Or am I? I think I am...? therefore I think I am...therefore, I am...if I think I am. But what if I don't think I am? I think...

If you don't think you are, then you obviously are not.

We doubt, therefore we are...aren't we?

Originally posted by debbiejo
If you don't think you are, then you obviously are not.

What if God doesn't think He is? Can he think Himself out of existence??? Damn you, Descartes!!!

Originally posted by leonheartmm
everything from the greatest to the most trivial concept/feeling/understand exists in our MIND. the universe does not exist only what WE FEAL to be the universe exists, in short only thoughts exist and nuthing material really does.

What was there before you existed?

There is a true nature to the universe, but we can never understand it from this vantage point.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I don't know?????????

Possibly there are many theories, and yet non are set, cause they all have holes in them.....So, why can't we combine them. Why not think there was some kind of intelligence that had to do with us evolving?...And also, why couldn't it also be that it had to do with quantum physics with other dimensions as well overlapping with ours to bring life here from somewhere else?.........It's all just theories...Nothing in concrete IMO.

May I recommend Making Choices

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What was there before you existed?

There is a true nature to the universe, but we can never understand it from this vantage point.


does there have to be anything before YOU existed. is there even a YOU? after all what you think is YOU is just your MEMORIES{even if u dont agree, think about it a little and ull come to the same conclusion, without your memories there is no YOU} if all your memories{concious,subconcious and unconcious} were taken away from you , the YOU that you are WONT exist. if they were to be substituted completely for sum1 else's memories you WUD be HIM/HER. people have this belief that there is something innately individual about them that CANT die with memories etc and is unique only to THEM, i dont know if thats true or not but one thing is for sure, people who say that dont really know what theyr talkin about, they only feal THEMSELVES cause theyr supposed to feal themselves, depending on their memories expiriences etc. but they often forget that any other person would feal the same way and its not UNIQUE to them. this is the same desire that makes people wanna believe that the earth is the centre of the universe which was made solely for THEM as they are chosen or watever by god. n they r right n the entire world is wrong.

anyway as i was sayin, why does there HAVE to exist anything for thoughts to exist{dont get confused by the words} cant conciousness come as natural to oblivion as space comes to EXISTANCE? just a thought.{one of many}

before and after or even PRESENT are just ideas WE have fashioned.

Originally posted by AOR
May I recommend Making Choices I already have, and my choice is not to perceive myself as knowing all........

Originally posted by leonheartmm
does there have to be anything before YOU existed. is there even a YOU? after all what you think is YOU is just your MEMORIES{even if u dont agree, think about it a little and ull come to the same conclusion, without your memories there is no YOU} if all your memories{concious,subconcious and unconcious} were taken away from you , the YOU that you are WONT exist. if they were to be substituted completely for sum1 else's memories you WUD be HIM/HER. people have this belief that there is something innately individual about them that CANT die with memories etc and is unique only to THEM, i dont know if thats true or not but one thing is for sure, people who say that dont really know what theyr talkin about, they only feal THEMSELVES cause theyr supposed to feal themselves, depending on their memories expiriences etc. but they often forget that any other person would feal the same way and its not UNIQUE to them. this is the same desire that makes people wanna believe that the earth is the centre of the universe which was made solely for THEM as they are chosen or watever by god. n they r right n the entire world is wrong.

anyway as i was sayin, why does there HAVE to exist anything for thoughts to exist{dont get confused by the words} cant conciousness come as natural to oblivion as space comes to EXISTANCE? just a thought.{one of many}

I have spent a lot of time going down this train of thought and I have concluded that beyond all the illusions of life, there is a real universe, and live in it, but we can never understand it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I have spent a lot of time going down this train of thought and I have concluded that beyond all the illusions of life, there is a real universe, and live in it, but we can never understand it.


perhaps because if you were to continue going deeper and deeper, you would have to strip yourself of everything that you ever had faith in{even the simple things like love etc} along with your rationality, concionce sanity and any and all reason{including reason to continue going down the same path or living or existing at all}. not dissin you at all shaky, just another thought . oh yea i forgot humanity.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
perhaps because if you were to continue going deeper and deeper, you would have to strip yourself of everything that you ever had faith in{even the simple things like love etc} along with your rationality, concionce sanity and any and all reason{including reason to continue going down the same path or living or existing at all}. not dissin you at all shaky, just another thought . oh yea i forgot humanity.

So, what I am telling you is have have gone down that path and only found myself in the end. Believe me...

i bet you didnt look any different did you{thas not the end though, if u can believe it, but faith in these things is often unbreakable as i have seen}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i bet you didnt look any different did you{thas not the end though, if u can believe it, but faith in these things is often unbreakable as i have seen} Once you enter the womb realm, you realize you are to alone.

only a lil more aware maybe.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Once you enter the womb realm, you realize you are to alone.


that is the rule. one who truly posesses power, or has seen even the slightest hint of it, is destined to be alone. perfectly alone. and silent. needless to say its why almost no1 dares walk that path till the end.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
only a lil more aware maybe.

There is you, and then there is your true self; your entity. This is true with everything. So, in a way you are correct, we are only illusion, but we are also a true entity that cannot die.

ahhh but you are that only because you WILL yourself to be. will is after all on of the starters of EVERYTHING, very powerful force indeed. but a lifeform based on will alone, without desire is like a hard unfilled shell. lifeless in all ways but one.

Reality is how our brain interacts with matter since we never directly interact with any form of matter all our 5 senses are dictated by how our brain perceives it this image is limited by our 5 senses.

damn i thought id forgotten these things.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ahhh but you are that only because you WILL yourself to be. will is after all on of the starters of EVERYTHING, very powerful force indeed. but a lifeform based on will alone, without desire is like a hard unfilled shell. lifeless in all ways but one.

There is only one thing wrong with that; "I will you not to be" doesn't work.

Me thinks I need to go eat now..............I'll be back later........mmmm smoked Salmon in Cajun sauce....

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Reality is how our brain interacts with matter since we never directly interact with any form of matter all our 5 senses are dictated by how our brain perceives it this image is limited by our 5 senses.


the problem is that this MATTER is also sumthin that your BRAIN/CONCIOUSNESS, "PERCIEVES" n not the other way around. i dont think this MATTER stuff exists.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I already have, and my choice is not to perceive myself as knowing all........


No, making choices is a book by Peter Kreeft (sp?). In it he describes a theory on how evolution, never contradicts the bible. I post it before, I'll see if I can bring it up...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the problem is that this MATTER is also sumthin that your BRAIN/CONCIOUSNESS, "PERCIEVES" n not the other way around. i dont think this MATTER stuff exists.

Matter is 99.9 % empty so it's very malleable.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is only one thing wrong with that; "I will you not to be" doesn't work.


will it as strongly as when you willed yourelf to open your eyes for the first time and FEAL. n it will work. the reason it doesnt work is because over time you have become PART of this reality, you are not pure anymore, unadulterated. THAT will WAS YOU, ur innate birth, but now u are only a small PART of that will at any moment. if you were to use your whole existance to its full extent and USE that will then there is almost nuthing you cant make come true.

the thing is. every here{shaky included} has gotta live in the real world too n thas why all you really can do is the best with what youve got, almost no1 would give up life for sumthin they dont know very much about.

We are all fragments of a greater mind, fragments of God the living universe and all things are one flesh is the lowest of forms and conscious the highest point is when we realize all things are one the "God point".

Originally posted by leonheartmm
will it as strongly as when you willed yourelf to open your eyes for the first time and FEAL. n it will work. the reason it doesnt work is because over time you have become PART of this reality, you are not pure anymore, unadulterated. THAT will WAS YOU, ur innate birth, but now u are only a small PART of that will at any moment. if you were to use your whole existance to its full extent and USE that will then there is almost nuthing you cant make come true.

Except destroy your entity. You have as much power as I do, so together we have no power.

This image that are 5 senses tell us it is created by our brain and is accepted by our souls the soul is simply a fragment of GOD...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Except destroy your entity. You have as much power as I do, so together we have no power.

no. any other guy has as much power as you, because you and the other guy are not really two different entities, just different aspects of the same whole, there is no conflict there. i on the other hand am an abnormality, sumthin that doesnt belong, but thas just an odd case.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
This image that are 5 senses tell us it is created by our brain and is accepted by our souls the soul is simply a fragment of GOD...

Fragment = entity.

Each entity is part of a greater entity until all entities are one.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Except destroy your entity. You have as much power as I do, so together we have no power.

We have the same power cause all things are one but we are not necessarily at the same point/level the closer to oneness with our true selves (GOD) The higher we raise.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
This image that are 5 senses tell us it is created by our brain and is accepted by our souls the soul is simply a fragment of GOD...


no, YOU are god{if u wanna call him that, but the dude really doesnt exist, its only YOU} and your BRAIN tells you that there are 5 senses, but thas not completely true.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, YOU are god{if u wanna call him that, but the dude really doesnt exist, its only YOU} and your BRAIN tells you that there are 5 senses, but thas not completely true.

GOD is just a title and a name is a name doesn't change what it is and what GOD is well the universe is GOD both positive and negative male and female solar and lunar. since we are part of him we are GOD and It is us because the universe is everything.

^ You two are proving my point.

the thing is though, GOD as u see it is not omnipotent and all that great. he was born with you and he will die with you, he/she/it only exists because u choose to believe in him. ultimately there is NUTHING. not even a void or NUTHINGNESS. like death beyond death, and infinitely beyond that, n still thas nuthin. what you attribute to god is an impossibly tiny part of the WHOLE.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the thing is though, GOD as u see it is not omnipotent and all that great. he was born with you and he will die with you, he/she/it only exists because u choose to believe in him. ultimately there is NUTHING. not even a void or NUTHINGNESS. like death beyond death, and infinitely beyond that, n still thas nuthin. what you attribute to god is an impossibly tiny part of the WHOLE.

GOD/Universe is omnipotent because the universe infinite (No start no end) Life and death are cycles in existence death is simply the breaking down of matter and birth is it's rearrangement since matter cannot be created or destroyed so there isn't a true death just a new life
darkness is a substance yet it's not.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
GOD/Universe is omnipotent because the universe infinite (No start no end) Life and death are cycles in existence death is simply the breaking down of matter and birth is it's rearrangement since matter cannot be created or destroyed so there isn't a true death just a new life
darkness is a substance yet it's not.

there u go again, blindly believing in organized relegion n killin ur own potential to THINK. the universe MIGHT or might not be infinite spatially. but even if it is, there are scientifically an infinite number of other universes. matter can both be created and most DEFINATELY can be destroyed. the universe is not omnipotent infinite is no longer a criteria for all powerful. the universe relies on space and time its not omnipotent, it is limited. its only your CONCIOUNCE{if u wanna call it soul, do so} that is truly limitless. well potentially anyway, but the more u get into FOLLOWING relegion n stuff, specially organised relegion, or limitin urself to spheres where things may vary but are bound by limitations and rules{god, omnipotence, heaven, hell, relegion bible etc} THAS when u start destroying that limitless potential.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
there u go again, blindly believing in organized relegion n killin ur own potential to THINK. the universe MIGHT or might not be infinite spatially. but even if it is, there are scientifically an infinite number of other universes. matter can both be created and most DEFINATELY can be destroyed. the universe is not omnipotent infinite is no longer a criteria for all powerful. the universe relies on space and time its not omnipotent, it is limited. its only your CONCIOUNCE{if u wanna call it soul, do so} that is truly limitless. well potentially anyway, but the more u get into FOLLOWING relegion n stuff, specially organised relegion, or limitin urself to spheres where things may vary but are bound by limitations and rules{god, omnipotence, heaven, hell, relegion bible etc} THAS when u start destroying that limitless potential.

OK do us all a favor, and wish Blue nocturne and all religions away.

But you can't, can you?

I honestly don't know how anyone could look at the universe, and all the complexity of it and not believe in Intelligent Design. Move the sun one centimeter closer to the earth and we go up in flames, move it one centimeter further from the earth and we freeze. Have you ever studied the stars and realized how utterly HUGE they are, and how far away they are? Have you taken time to explore the ocean, each lake and river, each mountain and hill? Look at the tiniest ant or each blade of grass. Examine your own body, made to last. Each hair serves its purpose. Pull one out, and another grows back. When skin is injured, it repairs itself. Think about human life, conception, birth. How could any of these things just happen? The universe is far too wonderful and expansive and intricate to have just happened. God created it, and us. And, He sure knew what He was doing!

I do believe the Bible to be authoritative, but I am unsure as to which stories were written to be taken literally. I don't doubt the creation story, for I am sure God could have done it exactly like that if He wanted to. I'm just not sure if He did it all in 6 24 hour days and rested on the 7th. I do, however, believe 100% that God created the universe and all that is good in it. God gave us, as well as His angels, free will, that is why evil exists today.

For those of you who doubt God, I feel as though it is because you don't realize how amazing you are. You were made in the image of God, every detail of your body is complex and intricate. Yet, many of you doubt your own existence. If you could for one moment realize how amazing you are, then maybe you could realize how AMAZING God is to have been able to create you and the universe that surrounds you. I think it starts with believing in yourself.

Bullshit. You know that the Earth isn't orbitting the Sun in a circle, right? It's orbitting in an elipse. And what does that mean? It means that the Earth's distance from the Sun is constantly changing! By a hell of a lot more than one centimeter, at that.



But the appendix, a big ol' organ, doesn't.

Look, I don't care if you don't understand evolution or cosmology, but doesn't it embarass you wave your ignorance around like this? If you don't understand something, don't try to comment on it.

Originally posted by Gregory
Bullshit. You know that the Earth isn't orbitting the Sun in a circle, right? It's orbitting in an elipse. And what does that mean? It means that the Earth's distance from the Sun is constantly changing! By a hell of a lot more than one centimeter, at that.



But the appendix, a big ol' organ, doesn't.

Look, I don't care if you don't understand evolution or cosmology, but doesn't it embarass you wave your ignorance around like this? If you don't understand something, don't try to comment on it.

so, i'm sorry that my technical terms weren't 100% correct. but the whole orbit deal is what i meant. if the earth orbitted the sun any closer, we would fry, any further and we would freeze. forgive me for being human and using basic terms.

I'm sorry I upset you. Let's start over?

Am I right in thinking your argument is probabilistic? "The probability of the Earth being in such-and-such a position is very low, therefore there must have been a designer"? That type of reasoning has a problem; let's try a thought experiment. Take a deck of cards and shuffle them; now, look at the cards. What was the probability that you'd wind up with the sequence you got? Astronomically low, of course; 1/(52*52*50*49*...*2*1). Would you say that you got that sequence for some reason other than chance, because the odds of getting it were so poor? Of course not.

Reshuffle the cards. Now, what's the probability that after you've shuffled the cards, they'll be perfectly sorted by suit and value? Still low; in fact, exactly the same as the probability of getting whatever you got the first time.

If you shuffle the cards and get a mess, you wouldn't think anything of it. If you shuffle the cards and get them perfectly sorted, you'd probably think it was some sort of trick, even though the odds of the two orders are the same. Why? Because you attach value to the cards being sorted in a certain way.

Let's abandon our analogy. The probability of the Earth being in its orbit is however low it is; the probability of Mars being in the orbit its in are exactly the same. You think that the position of Earth is evidence of a designer, whereas you probably don't think the position of Mars means anything. Why? Because life is important to you. Of course it is. But try to get past that for a moment. If the Earth wasn't in its exact orbit, it wouldn't have life. If Jupiter wasn't in its exact orbit, it wouldn't have its funky magnetic fields. The probability that Earth could sustain life, by chance, is exactly the same as the probability that Jupiter would have its particular magnetic fields, by chance. Every planet, not merely in our solar system but in the universe, has its own characteristics, and the probability that a given planet would have an orbit that allows it to have, for example, wierd magnetic fields or polar ice caps is the same as the probability that earth's orbit would allow it to have life.

To summarize, your difficulty is that you think that Earth's ability to support life is somehow special. It's not; it's just a trait the planet happens to have, like Mars' polar ice caps, Jupiter's storms, and so on. You're right that it wasn't likely that the Earth could support life, but so what? It's not likely that any one of the millions of planets, stars, comits, galexies, black holes, astroids, moons that inhabit the universe would have the exact properties it has. When you get over life being "special"--and lets face it, in an infinite universe, how important is one planet's worth of life?--then your argument fails.

I don't know if I'm making any sense, so I'll stop now.

I couldn't quote your whole post, Gregory, so I'll quote the summary: "To summarize, your difficulty is that you think that Earth's ability to support life is somehow special. It's not; it's just a trait the planet happens to have, like Mars' polar ice caps, Jupiter's storms, and so on. You're right that it wasn't likely that the Earth could support life, but so what? It's not likely that any one of the millions of planets, stars, comits, galexies, black holes, astroids, moons that inhabit the universe would have the exact properties it has. When you get over life being "special"--and lets face it, in an infinite universe, how important is one planet's worth of life?--then your argument fails."

That is the whole point of my argument. For life to exist on a planet, things have to be perfect, they have to be a certain way. It is amazing that life exists on earth, and it is something that couldn't just have happened. God made earth to support life, but He also made all the other planets and stars and galaxies, probably just to amaze us all the more. Life is special to me. As a fellow human being, I would expect it to be special to you. God gave me life. Every breath I breathe is because of Him. I won't take it for granted. I will always thank Him for it. He is truly amazing, if you would just take the time to see beyond all of your scientific reasoning to see the God who is above and beyond all that we think we understand but never can fully fathom.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
I couldn't quote your whole post, Gregory, so I'll quote the summary: "To summarize, your difficulty is that you think that Earth's ability to support life is somehow special. It's not; it's just a trait the planet happens to have, like Mars' polar ice caps, Jupiter's storms, and so on. You're right that it wasn't likely that the Earth could support life, but so what? It's not likely that any one of the millions of planets, stars, comits, galexies, black holes, astroids, moons that inhabit the universe would have the exact properties it has. When you get over life being "special"--and lets face it, in an infinite universe, how important is one planet's worth of life?--then your argument fails."

That is the whole point of my argument. For life to exist on a planet, things have to be perfect, they have to be a certain way. It is amazing that life exists on earth, and it is something that couldn't just have happened. God made earth to support life, but He also made all the other planets and stars and galaxies, probably just to amaze us all the more. Life is special to me. As a fellow human being, I would expect it to be special to you. God gave me life. Every breath I breathe is because of Him. I won't take it for granted. I will always thank Him for it. He is truly amazing, if you would just take the time to see beyond all of your scientific reasoning to see the God who is above and beyond all that we think we understand but never can fully fathom.

It is simpler than that. If you are standing in a dark room with a spotlight over your head, you could say that god put the spotlight there so you could see. However, it is just as likely that you are standing under the light because it is the one place you can see.

Okay, we'll go from your post. It's amazing that life exists, but it's just as amazing that Mars has polar caps and that Jupiter can support a sixteen-moon system. Saturn's rings are amazing; you don't see anything quite like them in the rest of the solar system. Ganamyde has ice volcanoes; that's amazing, too. If you think that these things are also specially designed--and it sounds like you do, "just to amaze us more"--then of course my arguments no good to you, but what I was saying, basically, is that Earth isn't more amazing then, say, Jupiter--it's just that since the amazing thing about Earth allows us to exist, while the amazing things about Jupiter are of interest only to astronomers, it seems that way, so we attach a special importance to it that isn't really there.

(Of course my life is special to me; I just meant that on a universal scale, it's trivial. Humanity could wipe itself out via nuclear war, and the universe would keep on going as if nothing had happened).

Originally posted by Gregory
Okay, we'll go from your post. It's amazing that life exists, but it's just as amazing that Mars has polar caps and that Jupiter can support a sixteen-moon system. Saturn's rings are amazing; you don't see anything quite like them in the rest of the solar system. Ganamyde has ice volcanoes; that's amazing, too. If you think that these things are also specially designed--and it sounds like you do, "just to amaze us morre"--then of course my arguments no good, but what I was saying, basically, is that Earth isn't more amazing then, say, Jupiter--it's just that since the amazing thing about Earth allows us to exist, while the amazing things about Jupiter are of interest only to astronomers, it seems that way, so we attach a special importance to it that isn't really there.

But life on Earth is not that amazing.

The Drake Equation
http://www.airynothing.com/smackerels/DrakeEquation.html

If you plug in the most conservative numbers into this equation you will find that there is a huge number of planets with life in the universe. So there is either life though out the universe or there is no life anywhere. I think there is life here, so it must be common in the universe.

Originally posted by Gregory
Okay, we'll go from your post. It's amazing that life exists, but it's just as amazing that Mars has polar caps and that Jupiter can support a sixteen-moon system. Saturn's rings are amazing; you don't see anything quite like them in the rest of the solar system. Ganamyde has ice volcanoes; that's amazing, too. If you think that these things are also specially designed--and it sounds like you do, "just to amaze us more"--then of course my arguments no good to you, but what I was saying, basically, is that Earth isn't more amazing then, say, Jupiter--it's just that since the amazing thing about Earth allows us to exist, while the amazing things about Jupiter are of interest only to astronomers, it seems that way, so we attach a special importance to it that isn't really there.

(Of course my life is special to me; I just meant that on a universal scale, it's trivial. Humanity could wipe itself out via nuclear war, and the universe would keep on going as if nothing had happened).

Those things are all amazing, you are right. Too amazing to just happen for no reason at all. The theory that we just appeared for no reason is ridiculous. Why? Without God, what's the point? I believe God created all things "ex nihilio" - out of nothing... but not for nothing.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
Those things are all amazing, you are right. Too amazing to just happen for no reason at all. The theory that we just appeared for no reason is ridiculous. Why? Without God, what's the point? I believe God created all things "ex nihilio" - out of nothing... but not for nothing.


The hardest thing for man to grasp is that perhaps he has no purpose and no meaning.....................made out of sand and dirt perhaps like a planet.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But life on Earth is not that amazing.

The Drake Equation
http://www.airynothing.com/smackerels/DrakeEquation.html

If you plug in the most conservative numbers into this equation you will find that there is a huge number of planets with life in the universe. So there is either life though out the universe or there is no life anywhere. I think there is life here, so it must be common in the universe.

Look around, at the good in the world, and tell me that life on Earth isn't that amazing.

I don't know about life on other planets... God could do it, or have already done it, if He wanted to. Either way, where there is life, just because it might be common doesn't mean it isn't wonderful and beautiful and astonishing. Just because there are countless stars in the sky, does that make any one less beautiful? There are billions of people, but each one is unique and different. Just because something might be what you call "common" doesn't make it any less special. Something might seem common and ordinary, when in fact if you look closer, it is extraordinary.

Originally posted by soleran30
The hardest thing for man to grasp is that perhaps he has no purpose and no meaning.....................made out of sand and dirt perhaps like a planet.

Why would I grasp something like that. Why would man just be here? It doesn't make sense. I believe that man has a purpose, not because it makes me feel better, but because I do have a purpose. Sometimes, it would be easier to just live as if nothing matters, but it does matter. Having a purpose isn't taking the easy way out. We were made out of dust... but God breathed life into us. I'm sad that you think so low of yourself, when you are the child of God, created in His majestic image. The Creator of the Universe chose to create YOU... that should make you smile.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
Look around, at the good in the world, and tell me that life on Earth isn't that amazing.

I don't know about life on other planets... God could do it, or have already done it, if He wanted to. Either way, where there is life, just because it might be common doesn't mean it isn't wonderful and beautiful and astonishing. Just because there are countless stars in the sky, does that make any one less beautiful? There are billions of people, but each one is unique and different. Just because something might be what you call "common" doesn't make it any less special. Something might seem common and ordinary, when in fact if you look closer, it is extraordinary.

The word amazing is a comparison. Amazing when compared with what? Because I say that the occurrence of life on this planet is not amazing does not take away from the beauty and marvelous splendor that is the universe. On the contrary, I call this words we live in, heaven.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
Why would I grasp something like that. Why would man just be here? It doesn't make sense. I believe that man has a purpose, not because it makes me feel better, but because I do have a purpose. Sometimes, it would be easier to just live as if nothing matters, but it does matter. Having a purpose isn't taking the easy way out. We were made out of dust... but God breathed life into us. I'm sad that you think so low of yourself, when you are the child of God, created in His majestic image. The Creator of the Universe chose to create YOU... that should make you smile.

Wow I never said you inparticular, mankind as a whole does this. Someone without a purpose loses interest in life...................everyone feels as though they must have a purpose its what gets people out of bed in the morning.

Whoever lives as if nothing matters is already dead and I never said thats how man should live. Its the nature of religion to create purpose and satiate needs but making sense of things for our EGO so we can feel good about this.

I always found it ironic that an a being stated as omniscient, omnibenevolent and ominpotent would require praise and acknowledgement. Being God means the past present and future are already known and regardless of the actions you take God already knows the results. Kinda takes a bite outta free will really

Originally posted by soleran30
Wow I never said you inparticular, mankind as a whole does this. Someone without a purpose loses interest in life...................everyone feels as though they must have a purpose its what gets people out of bed in the morning.

Whoever lives as if nothing matters is already dead and I never said thats how man should live. Its the nature of religion to create purpose and satiate needs but making sense of things for our EGO so we can feel good about this.

I always found it ironic that an a being stated as omniscient, omnibenevolent and ominpotent would require praise and acknowledgement. Being God means the past present and future are already known and regardless of the actions you take God already knows the results. Kinda takes a bite outta free will really

Well, I am really glad that you have purpose

About the whole free will, thing... it is hard to fathom that God can know the future and not make us do things... but that's just it. He knows what we are going to chose, but He doesn't make us chose anything.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
Well, I am really glad that you have purpose

About the whole free will, thing... it is hard to fathom that God can know the future and not make us do things... but that's just it. He knows what we are going to chose, but He doesn't make us chose anything.


Nope the choices you will make have already been made..............God knows all. So wether you do or you don't it was meant to be cuz God already knows you did it hence free will is an illusion for man to believe what he is doing is his own but for God you have already lived your whole life

Anyway back to creation.....................man might just be here because God just wanted an antfarm.............hehe I poke fun obvioulsy.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The word amazing is a comparison. Amazing when compared with what? Because I say that the occurrence of life on this planet is not amazing does not take away from the beauty and marvelous splendor that is the universe. On the contrary, I call this words we live in, heaven.

If you think life here is heaven... why is there bad and evil stuff going on all the time? Heaven will be so much better than life here... don't you want to go?!

Originally posted by soleran30
Nope the choices you will make have already been made..............God knows all. So wether you do or you don't it was meant to be cuz God already knows you did it hence free will is an illusion for man to believe what he is doing is his own but for God you have already lived your whole life

Anyway back to creation.....................man might just be here because God just wanted an antfarm.............hehe I poke fun obvioulsy.

So, you believe that everything you do is because God already predestined it to happen? That seems like the easy way out to me... like saying it's okay when you lie and hurt other people and lust and even if you murdered or committed adultery or robbed a bank. Because, after all, you are saying that you didn't choose to do those things, it was chosen for you to do them. I know that I have sinned, uncountable times, and I blame no one but myself.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
So, you believe that everything you do is because God already predestined it to happen? That seems like the easy way out to me... like saying it's okay when you lie and hurt other people and lust and even if you murdered or committed adultery or robbed a bank. Because, after all, you are saying that you didn't choose to do those things, it was chosen for you to do them. I know that I have sinned, uncountable times, and I blame no one but myself.


Nope God is your belief I was just saying that out loud for you Accountablility is a big part of accepting and working twards being a better person for yourself and others around you.

As well you should take accountability absolutely for your "sins." God already knows all the sins you will live and do and ask forgiveness for and as such his omnibenevolence has already forgiven you for it

Man made God, God made Universe, God made Man............

to soleran30 and shaky, i just have one point to make. The difference between what you all believe and what I believe is huge... we have established that already. But the biggest difference is our reason behind trying to get each other to believe what we believe. I sincerely want you to know God as I do, that He might save you from your sins. I want what is best for you both, even though I don't know you at all. I want all people to know the love and peace that only God can offer us. What is your reasoning behind trying to make me change my mind about things?

ive heard about the earth frying even if its a centimetere closer to the sun in more than one relegions n i know for a fact that its BULLSHIT! {what makes u think i cant shaky? }

Originally posted by MicahLynn
to soleran30 and shaky, i just have one point to make. The difference between what you all believe and what I believe is huge... we have established that already. But the biggest difference is our reason behind trying to get each other to believe what we believe. I sincerely want you to know God as I do, that He might save you from your sins. I want what is best for you both, even though I don't know you at all. I want all people to know the love and peace that only God can offer us. What is your reasoning behind trying to make me change my mind about things?


If you don't want to change your mind I don't want you to. I am only expressing my opinion based on what I know and have experienced. Sometimes we need to look past what we are taught to better appreciate and understand what we feel to be true.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ive heard about the earth frying even if its a centimetere closer to the sun in more than one relegions n i know for a fact that its BULLSHIT! {what makes u think i cant shaky? }

Sorry leonheartmm I don't know what you are asking me.

but what you consider to be a sin aint sins in the eyes of others
why should you have more right to try to change peoples minds than the ones you adress here

Originally posted by finti
but what you consider to be a sin aint sins in the eyes of others
why should you have more right to try to change peoples minds than the ones you adress here

finti don't you know that she is going to take one look at your avatar and not read any of your post.

that wasnt referring to u shaky, i was referrin to what the other guy posted about the bible being an authority.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
there u go again, blindly believing in organized relegion n killin ur own potential to THINK. the universe MIGHT or might not be infinite spatially. but even if it is, there are scientifically an infinite number of other universes. matter can both be created and most DEFINATELY can be destroyed. the universe is not omnipotent infinite is no longer a criteria for all powerful. the universe relies on space and time its not omnipotent, it is limited. its only your CONCIOUNCE{if u wanna call it soul, do so} that is truly limitless. well potentially anyway, but the more u get into FOLLOWING relegion n stuff, specially organised relegion, or limitin urself to spheres where things may vary but are bound by limitations and rules{god, omnipotence, heaven, hell, relegion bible etc} THAS when u start destroying that limitless potential.


How can the universe be infinite while having multiverses, matter can not be created or destroyed so the universe wasn't created, space and time is part of the universe it isn't seperate and I'm not part of any organized religion I though I study it.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
How can the universe be infinite while having multiverses, matter can not be created or destroyed so the universe wasn't created, space and time is part of the universe it isn't seperate and I'm not part of any organized religion I though I study it.


lol. u should study mathematics a little more. infinity multiplyed by infinite gives, INFINITY! the universe is not infinite, its finite but is curved onto itself which is why it seems to have no end, the universe is PART of the multiverse. and i ASSURE you that matter can both be created and destroyed. when a nuclear bomb explodes matter is DESTROYED which is WHY so much energy is released havent you ever heard of einstien's equation E=Mc square ?

Originally posted by finti
but what you consider to be a sin aint sins in the eyes of others
why should you have more right to try to change peoples minds than the ones you adress here

Obviously people aren't going to admit they are sinners if they feel like it doesn't affect them. That is part of sins trap... it is enticing. People generally like to sin, they feel like it is okay and the easy way out. They don't realize that God has set standards and rules for our protection. Sins leads to bad things. That is why the world is in the state it is in, because of sin. Yes, people disagree on what is right and what is wrong. But, God's standards don't change. What is right is always right to Him, and what is wrong is always wrong. We just have to learn His standards and to follow them.

As for the whole changing people's minds topic, that wasn't my point at all. I was saying that I want them to believe as I do for their benefit. I wondered what their motivation is for trying to convince me on their beliefs... which I have yet to hear of any reason that sounds beneficial to me.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol. u should study mathematics a little more. infinity multiplyed by infinite gives, INFINITY! the universe is not infinite, its finite but is curved onto itself which is why it seems to have no end, the universe is PART of the multiverse. and i ASSURE you that matter can both be created and destroyed. when a nuclear bomb explodes matter is DESTROYED which is WHY so much energy is released havent you ever heard of einstien's equation E=Mc square ?

No, no, no. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. In a nuclear exploitation, matter decays in a chain reaction, and when matter decays it releases a lot of energy. E=MCsquared only shows that there is a lot of energy in matter.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
finti don't you know that she is going to take one look at your avatar and not read any of your post.

i've read his posts, just like everyone elses. i don't condemn him for our difference of opinion, i'm just curious as to why he believes in the things he does, just as with everyone that disagrees with Christianity. i want to know why, and i won't let an avatar get in the way of that.

The first law of conservation of mass says that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. This longstanding fundamental law of physics suprisingly still stands today. The laws further dictate that the same holds true for energy and charge. These quantities can only be converted between one antoher. Matter isn't destroyed in a nuclear reaction. The energy released is the result of a sustained nuclear reaction which occurs as a release of energy from the reaction. The fundamental unit of matter still exists. In a net system, the amount of energy, mass, and charge is constant.

erm i NEVER SAID that ENERGY could be created or destroyed, i said MATTER could be created and destroyed{n the guy claims thatit cant be}

Originally posted by MicahLynn
i've read his posts, just like everyone elses. i don't condemn him for our difference of opinion, i'm just curious as to why he believes in the things he does, just as with everyone that disagrees with Christianity. i want to know why, and i won't let an avatar get in the way of that.

And you have a difficult time telling when someone is joking.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
erm i NEVER SAID that ENERGY could be created or destroyed, i said MATTER could be created and destroyed{n the guy claims thatit cant be}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_conservation_of_matter

I believe what I does cause it is what I think its the right way, why I disagree with christianity, well I find all religions rather ridiculous. So its nothing more than those simple facts

Originally posted by finti
I believe what I does cause it is what I think its the right way, why I disagree with christianity, well I find all religions rather ridiculous. So its nothing more than those simple facts

Why do you find it ridiculous? You have to have a reason. If you don't, maybe you should look into it and try to find one... but I bet in the end, you would find Truth.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
The first law of conservation of mass says that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. This longstanding fundamental law of physics suprisingly still stands today. The laws further dictate that the same holds true for energy and charge. These quantities can only be converted between one antoher. Matter isn't destroyed in a nuclear reaction. The energy released is the result of a sustained nuclear reaction which occurs as a release of energy from the reaction. The fundamental unit of matter still exists. In a net system, the amount of energy, mass, and charge is constant.


whose talkin about energy? i said MATTER{n so did u}

heres an eye opener in a nuclear reaction a small part of the matter is DESTROYED and changed into energy. in fission about 1/450th of the matter is destroyed{which i why the fundamental particles still exist because the change is slight but it DOES exist} and in fusion about 1/200 th of the matter is destroyed. in anti matter reaction 100% of the reacting mass is destroyed and changed into energy.

the law of conservation of matter has been obselee since reletivity was propsed, WHAT WORLD HAVE U BEEN LIVING IN?! the law only exists for CHEMICAL rections NOT nuclear reactions, thas highschool physics dude.

becasue, as for christianity, I find the idea of a creating god lame

the reason is I simply dont believe dont need much more really, and I have found the truth

Originally posted by leonheartmm
whose talkin about energy? i said MATTER{n so did u}

heres an eye opener in a nuclear reaction a small part of the matter is DESTROYED and changed into energy. in fission about 1/450th of the matter is destroyed{which i why the fundamental particles still exist because the change is slight but it DOES exist} and in fusion about 1/200 th of the matter is destroyed. in anti matter reaction 100% of the reacting mass is destroyed and changed into energy.

Right the matter is converted to another form which is energy and energy can be converted to other form but it can never be lost.

Originally posted by finti
becasue, as for christianity, I find the idea of a creating god lame

We didn't create God, He created us. That us includes you.

the reason is I simply dont believe dont need much more really, and I have found the truth

Deep down, you know your life is missing something. I've been there. You feel empty and alone sometimes. If you'd just look, you'd find what's missing.

If you have found what you call truth, I'd really like to hear about it. I know it is different than what I believe, and there can't be more than one truth, so please fill me in.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
Deep down, you know your life is missing something. I've been there. You feel empty and alone sometimes. If you'd just look, you'd find what's missing.

If you have found what you call truth, I'd really like to hear about it. I know it is different than what I believe, and there can't be more than one truth, so please fill me in.

I have nothing against Christianity or Christians but the truth isn't going to be in just 66 books that have been revised constantly it takes effort and dedication to find.

yea n i didnt SAY energy cud be created or lost. i just that matter could be, and seeing as your whole idea was based on MATTER and not energy, i was just provin a point.

aint missing a thing actually, typical of christian to assume that idiocy just cause you dont share their beliefs

you have to find your own truth, whats my truth might not apply to you

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yea n i didnt SAY energy cud be created or lost. i just that matter could be, and seeing as your whole idea was based on MATTER and not energy, i was just provin a point.

I get your point I'm just saying if matter gets converted into energy then it isn't truly lost it just takes another form and since energy is never lost then it's an infinite process that's all I'm saying

"Einstein showed that a consequence of his special theory of relativity is
that matter and energy are coupled, and that one can indeed create or
destroy matter (or energy) PROVIDED an appropriate exchange is made between
matter and energy. That is, energy can be converted to matter, subtracting
from the universe's store of energy and adding to the total number of
atoms. Conversely, atoms can be destroyed, subtracting from the total
count but thereby adding to the universe's store of energy"

actually at singularities the law of conservation of energy doesnt exist.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
actually at singularities the law of conservation of energy doesnt exist.

True, But that theory of the multiverse is being debated

debated yes, but its very plausible.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
I have nothing against Christianity or Christians but the truth isn't going to be in just 66 books that have been revised constantly it takes effort and dedication to find.

You're right God speaks to us in many ways. He reveals Himself to us.... think of BENJI - Bible, Events, Nature, Jesus, Intuition... God's Word is authoritative and true, but it isn't His only way to speak to us and reveal His Truth to us.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
You're right God speaks to us in many ways. He reveals Himself to us.... think of BENJI - Bible, Events, Nature, Jesus, Intuition... God's Word is authoritative and true, but it isn't His only way to speak to us and reveal His Truth to us.

You say God but you don't specify which GOD, The Christian isn't the first,last or only religion and if your talking about Jehovah being truthful read that bible again.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
You say God but you don't specify which GOD, The Christian isn't the first,last or only religion and if your talking about Jehovah being truthful read that bible again.

I believe there is only One God, He is the God of Christianity. He is the God of the Bible. But, don't limit Him to that. He is the God of the Universe, for He created the universe. And, I do read the Bible, I'm a junior at a Bible College, as we speak. I study it every single day. God is the God of Truth and He is never changing. Sure it isn't the only religion, but it is the only One that is right. And, though there are many religions, it doesn't mean that they are all wrong. One of them must be right... and that is Christianity. If you truly studied it, the puzzle pieces world all fit together. But, as a human, you can't see the whole picture, only God can. In the end, on the day of judgment, He will reveal it to us all. We will finally see things as He sees.

But, if those are the things you truly believe and you aren't going to take the time to study it, I can't do anything more for you. I've sown the seed, maybe someone will come along and water it.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
I believe there is only One God, He is the God of Christianity. He is the God of the Bible. But, don't limit Him to that. He is the God of the Universe, for He created the universe. And, I do read the Bible, I'm a junior at a Bible College, as we speak. I study it every single day. God is the God of Truth and He is never changing. Sure it isn't the only religion, but it is the only One that is right. And, though there are many religions, it doesn't mean that they are all wrong. One of them must be right... and that is Christianity. If you truly studied it, the puzzle pieces world all fit together. But, as a human, you can't see the whole picture, only God can. In the end, on the day of judgment, He will reveal it to us all. We will finally see things as He sees.

But, if those are the things you truly believe and you aren't going to take the time to study it, I can't do anything more for you. I've sown the seed, maybe someone will come along and water it.

God is God and doesn't choose a religion to facilitate god's means. The facilitation is man's desire to derive purpose Remember when you are looking at problems or puzzles you will always find the pieces that fit your puzzle because of your perception.

Originally posted by soleran30
God is God and doesn't choose a religion to facilitate god's means. The facilitation is man's desire to derive purpose Remember when you are looking at problems or puzzles you will always find the pieces that fit your puzzle because of your perception.

Surprisingly I kind of agree with you... it's not like God said I will make a religion for me to be God of. He is God of all people, it just so happens that Christianity is the only religion that goes along with all that He is and ever was. And, He did send His Son: Jesus Christ, in which Christianity is named after. God is the God of Christianity, but it's not like you are making it look.

About the problems and puzzles thing... I truly believe that only God sees the whole picture, and sometimes I don't like the pieces that I see... they don't always go along with my own wants and desires. I know in the end, His way will make sense and that He only wants what is best for me. But, my will and perception don't always match His. That is what I am striving for though, to want the same things He wants, because I know they are the right and best for me anyway.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
How do you guy's think it started?

There was a really big explosion, and there we were.

MicahLynn we probably agree on more things than you think we just express them differently.

In my opinion people get so caught in up the "rules" and "wants" of God that they forget some very simple realities. You are alive and these rules are not all established by God. Rules are established by men and should be recognized as such. God has set up guidelines for us to follow, its when we get caught up in the folly of rules do we "fail" to meet "Gods" expectations or have we?

In my opinion many rules of religion for its followers are setup to make them fail feel guilty and then get caught up in this viscious circle. Never realizing true love or forgiveness but acting out of fear and guilt. Not a sermon just a thought.

Originally posted by soleran30
MicahLynn we probably agree on more things than you think we just express them differently.

In my opinion people get so caught in up the "rules" and "wants" of God that they forget some very simple realities. You are alive and these rules are not all established by God. Rules are established by men and should be recognized as such. God has set up guidelines for us to follow, its when we get caught up in the folly of rules do we "fail" to meet "Gods" expectations or have we?

In my opinion many rules of religion for its followers are setup to make them fail feel guilty and then get caught up in this viscious circle. Never realizing true love or forgiveness but acting out of fear and guilt. Not a sermon just a thought.

I totally agree. Currently, I am attending a very traditional college, but I was raised more of a liberal and nondenominational Christian. I think people try to figure out and define God so much that they take away from His power and wonder and limit Him in so many ways. Love and forgiveness is what it is all about. If we truly believe this and follow this, then naturally our way of life is going to be more moral than if we didn't. But, so many times, people get caught up in the rules and regulations and tradition and legalism of it all. It shouldn't be like that. It is important for us to recognized that we sin and need grace, but our concern shouldn't be on that, but rather on truly loving others. We shouldn't act out of fear and guilt but out of thankfulness for God's grace and love for us. We should extend that same grace and love to others. Thanks for your thoughts... it means a lot for someone to kind of understand where I am coming from.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
I believe there is only One God, He is the God of Christianity. He is the God of the Bible. But, don't limit Him to that. He is the God of the Universe, for He created the universe. And, I do read the Bible, I'm a junior at a Bible College, as we speak. I study it every single day. God is the God of Truth and He is never changing. Sure it isn't the only religion, but it is the only One that is right. And, though there are many religions, it doesn't mean that they are all wrong. One of them must be right... and that is Christianity. If you truly studied it, the puzzle pieces world all fit together. But, as a human, you can't see the whole picture, only God can. In the end, on the day of judgment, He will reveal it to us all. We will finally see things as He sees.

But, if those are the things you truly believe and you aren't going to take the time to study it, I can't do anything more for you. I've sown the seed, maybe someone will come along and water it.

That's a nice "BELIEF" but the fact is Christianity's god is just the Jewish god now I know you he's the true god but the whole truth won't be in just a couple of religions that don't even add up.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
That's a nice "BELIEF" but the fact is Christianity's god is just the Jewish god now I know you he's the true god but the whole truth won't be in just a couple of religions that don't even add up.

How do they not? God is the God of the Jewish religion. But, then He sent His Son as the promised Messiah. Some of the Jewish refused to accept that Christ was the Savior, but some of them did believe. Christianity merged from Judaism with the coming of the Messiah. Jewish people still believe in the same God as Christian people do, they just don't have the grace and forgiveness that only the blood of Jesus can offer. They are still living according to the old covenant, which Jesus came to restore. Jesus is the New Covenant. I am in no place to determine how God will deal with them, but I have been taught according to John 14:6 in which Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. NO one comes to the Father except through me." Once Jesus came as the ultimate sacrifice for sins, nothing could take that place. I don't know if Jewish people still sacrifice animals when they sin, and if they don't do that I don't know what they do. But, I do know that Jesus came for that reason, so people wouldn't have to go on sacrficing animals. He came to redeem God's people that we might truly glorify the Father. It adds up perfectly.

this god of yours have a hard time making up his mind from the so called chosen people to that of everyone who follow jesus people, both claim to be the righteous ones

Originally posted by MicahLynn
How do they not? God is the God of the Jewish religion. But, then He sent His Son as the promised Messiah. Some of the Jewish refused to accept that Christ was the Savior, but some of them did believe. Christianity merged from Judaism with the coming of the Messiah. Jewish people still believe in the same God as Christian people do, they just don't have the grace and forgiveness that only the blood of Jesus can offer. The Christian church pushed out the Jews and made them infidels...Sinful, lost, and ignorant. It was not combined. Paul's teaching even go against the OT teachings......How judgemental the Christian church is to oust the Jews after taking over their god.

Originally posted by debbiejo
The Christian church pushed out the Jews and made them infidels...Sinful, lost, and ignorant. It was not combined. Paul's teaching even go against the OT teachings......How judgemental the Christian church is to oust the Jews after taking over their god.

How do Paul's teaching go against the OT testament teachings? He didn't say that following those teachings were wrong. He recognize that with Jesus was a New Covenant and that all the hundreds of rules of the Old Covenant were no longer necessary.

How did the Christian Church take over the Jewish God? He is the God of all people, just not all religions. How did they push them out? If anything, Christians long for Jews to come to know Christ as the Messiah. At least, I'm a Christian and that is what I want. I want all people to know Him.

Originally posted by finti
this god of yours have a hard time making up his mind from the so called chosen people to that of everyone who follow jesus people, both claim to be the righteous ones

Anyone that follows God and accepts Jesus is made righteous through Him, both Jews and Gentiles alike.