Darth Bane versus Exar Kun

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Numan
Can Kun do it? Setting is on Ruusan.

DiamondBullets
No, Bane rapes him.

Numan
Are you being sarcastic? Not that I think Kun would win but it seems like the general feeling around here is that Kun is a force god.

DiamondBullets
Originally posted by Numan
Are you being sarcastic? Not that I think Kun would win but it seems like the general feeling around here is that Kun is a force god.

I aint being sarcastic. Bane, the founder of the secret Sith order would rape Kun.

Fishy
Based on what exactly?

Numan
Well pretty much every other sith lord was scared shitless of him.

tdtd
Let's get one thing straight, the only person that is described as a force God is luke. However Bane is the leader of the NEW Sith order, while Kun ended the ancient Sith. Based just on that I would think Kun would pwn him. Not to mention Kun had ancient sith knowledge whereas Bane didn't..

Hello Friend
Actually, Bane ended the "Ancient Sith" and began the "New Sith". The "New Sith" were far more deadly, considering they weren't the ones to rally huge Sith armies to attack the Republic. They were more stealthy... the ROTS novel elaborates this further.

Darth Traya
Yes, perhaps in terms of machivellian manuevering, but in terms of power? Pfft. Kun would absolutely sabre rape Bane within a few seconds.

Hello Friend
Obviously not in power. But there was a realy good quote in the ROTS novel that sums this up perfectly... Damn I can't find the book.

kamikz
Was it Bane who released a thought bomb?

tdtd
No Kaan released the thought bomb, and the new sith were deadly in terms of stealth and surprise. They had nothing on the ancient sith in terms of power.

Numan
Yeah because the thought bomb didn't require any power whatsoever.

tdtd
Lol. First of all Kaan and a few other sith lords released it. Nobody said it wasn't powerful but comparing the new sith to the ancient sith is like comparing the 2006 NBA to the 86 NBA.. Not only is it a different era but the ancient sith knowledge is lost.

Numan
Originally posted by tdtd
Not only is it a different era but the ancient sith knowledge is lost.

Is that necessarily a bad thing?

Hello Friend
Knowledge should be gained throughout time as well. For some reason it apparently wasn't in the SW Universe.

Numan
If the army of darkness knew of the thought bomb, I'm sure they would know of things as powerful as ancient sith magic.

tdtd
That is illogical speculation. So you're saying if Luke knew how to manipulate black holes he would have known sith magic? What you just said makes no sense.

vpokdekjyafmidp
well bane was a master of stealth, and sneaking up on people/ catching them of guard to kill them. so i consider him a pussy so yeah exar would **** him up

tdtd
Right this is a versus fight. 1 on 1, who would Bane be sneaking up on? I don't consider Bane anything special in terms of power. In terms of accomplishments he is definitely one of the greatest

vpokdekjyafmidp
he is a pussy, therefore he probably sucks ass at fighting, therefore making him lose the fight

tdtd
That's not a logical statement. It is assumed that Bane was very powerful but it's more reasonable to assume Kun was easily more powerful in the force than Bane, and with a saber it wouldn't be a contest.

Illustrious
Originally posted by Numan
If the army of darkness knew of the thought bomb, I'm sure they would know of things as powerful as ancient sith magic.

Errr... what? Because they used a powerful force attack, they must have known other powerful force attacks?

Wow, if that statement didn't scream false conclusion, nothing does.

Originally posted by Numan
Is that necessarily a bad thing?

Well, considering later generations picked up remnant Sith knowledge and artifacts and became practical gods with it, I'd say it's very bad.

Originally posted by Hello Friend
Knowledge should be gained throughout time as well. For some reason it apparently wasn't in the SW Universe.

Technology advanced, but why would Sith powers? It's not like there was a Sith Empire to go practice them.

Fishy
Well the Sith of Bane his era did know some impressive things, like the lightning storm and the thought bomb... Still nothing as impressive as the ancient Sith knowledge, but they did create there own stuff.

tdtd
Bane would get tooled. Regardless of the difficulty factor, it's an obvious victory

Illustrious
Originally posted by Fishy
Well the Sith of Bane his era did know some impressive things, like the lightning storm and the thought bomb... Still nothing as impressive as the ancient Sith knowledge, but they did create there own stuff.

The Force Storm is alluded to in TOTJ as an ancient Sith ability, and it even made its way into the TOTJ Companion as a listed feat.

Practically all the demonstrated "uber Sith abilities" have been rooted to the Ancient Sith. Nihilus' ability is derived from the Ancient Sith, Alchemy and Magic are direct ports from the Ancient Sith, Force Storm and most dark side abilities are directly from the ancient Sith.

tdtd
Yup, all of the said feats were derived from the ancient sith empire

Fishy
Originally posted by Illustrious
The Force Storm is alluded to in TOTJ as an ancient Sith ability, and it even made its way into the TOTJ Companion as a listed feat.

Practically all the demonstrated "uber Sith abilities" have been rooted to the Ancient Sith. Nihilus' ability is derived from the Ancient Sith, Alchemy and Magic are direct ports from the Ancient Sith, Force Storm and most dark side abilities are directly from the ancient Sith.

Okay, so then we still have the thought bomb of a possible original weapon, although I don't know if thats the case.. (not arguing it would put them above the ancients just saying its a nice invention)

Also Nihilus his eating ability coming from the ancients, I've heard this several times before, but I find it really strange. Kreia says the technique can not be learned and that there is no defense. No Jedi has ever heard of it, and if the Sith would have used it they would have eaten themselves. So where is the actual evidence or actual quote by Kreia that the technique came from the ancients?

tdtd
That's a good question, it was possibly derived from the ancient sith, but I believe it cannot be learned because it is a fluke, just like Nihilus was, all a result of the Exile.

Numan
The thought bomb is more poweful than any ancient sith technique we have seen.

tdtd
No it's not lol

Fishy
Originally posted by Numan
The thought bomb is more poweful than any ancient sith technique we have seen.

Really? It failed to kill everybody on the planet, two kids and Bane survived. Sadow his blowing up stars trick however leaves none alive... Which also does more total damage. As for killing people, we don't know if it really does those things better, I mean Kaan believed they were powerful enough to survive the attack. Perhaps it wouldn't have hurt the ancient Sith at all, because they were stronger then that.

tdtd
agreed

Numan
I meant to write as powerful.

kamikz
Originally posted by Fishy
Okay, so then we still have the thought bomb of a possible original weapon, although I don't know if thats the case.. (not arguing it would put them above the ancients just saying its a nice invention)

Also Nihilus his eating ability coming from the ancients, I've heard this several times before, but I find it really strange. Kreia says the technique can not be learned and that there is no defense. No Jedi has ever heard of it, and if the Sith would have used it they would have eaten themselves. So where is the actual evidence or actual quote by Kreia that the technique came from the ancients?

I think the only clue to the Ancient Sith knowing/creating this technique is Ragnos's scepter who could drain the force from places then empty itself from the force too. But this coulden't drain the force powers from all things (like people, creatures etc) but only places and planets that had a strong aura with the force. So Nihilus might have had a more powerful, reinfined technique when using this ability, to feed himself.

Fishy
Well draining the force, is that the same as literally removing it from existance like Nihilus did? I mean could the sceptre even if a million times more powerful trully destroy everything, not just humans but the very force itself? Could it destroy everything and leave nothing, literally? Does it trully posses power like that, because that is what Nihilus is, that is what Nihilus does.

kamikz
If it was a million times more powerful, yes I think so. But no, no power could ever match Nihilus ability.

Faunus
The scepter stole and stored the energy; it didn't consume or destroy it like Nihilus' attack did.

kamikz
That's what I ment, it is similar, but it is not Nihilus technique. Mabey they're not, but I think they are pretty similar. laughing

tdtd
You have to understand Nihilius' force eating ability was a pure FLUKE, just like he was. He and his power were created as a wound in the force, but it is unique in the sense that only the exile had the ability to stop it.

Fishy
Originally posted by Faunus
The scepter stole and stored the energy; it didn't consume or destroy it like Nihilus' attack did.

So, then why do many people assume that the technique was also known to the ancient Sith?

tdtd
Because an ability like that, which WAS similiar to Ragnos' technique, can be assumed to be derived from the ancient sith.

Fishy
But it wasn't really similar at all to quote Faunus

"The scepter stole and stored the energy; it didn't consume or destroy it like Nihilus' attack did."

Thats not at all like what Nihilus did.

tdtd
Ah gotcha. It's still logical to assume that techniques such as these were derived from the ancient Sith. At the same time Nihilus' technique specifically was a fluke, and we can see it's a fluke from the events of KOTOR II, so we can't assume it comes from the ancient sith, since this technique doesn't exist in reality.

Fishy
Agreed thats why I was saying what I said, is there any real reason to state that the technique was known by the Ancient Sith? And so far I have seen none, so i'm going to say that they didn't have a clue about it.

tdtd
Right, Nihilus was a fluke which is why he could only have been killed by the person who technically created him and his unique ability, the exile.

Veneficus
Bane gets his assed tooled.

Wesker
Originally posted by Fishy
Okay, so then we still have the thought bomb of a possible original weapon, although I don't know if thats the case.. (not arguing it would put them above the ancients just saying its a nice invention)

Also Nihilus his eating ability coming from the ancients, I've heard this several times before, but I find it really strange. Kreia says the technique can not be learned and that there is no defense. No Jedi has ever heard of it, and if the Sith would have used it they would have eaten themselves. So where is the actual evidence or actual quote by Kreia that the technique came from the ancients?

Firstly, Bane probably gets tooled. I have no doubt that he's a capable warrior (Considering his era and such), but Kun's wealth of ancient sith techniques and his ease at using them push things well into his corner.

About Nihilus, Traya does mention that the ability is of the ancient Sith, but Nihilus, because of his nature, uses it differently and cannot be emulated by her or others apparently. She also calls him the "pinnacle of the ancient Sith art" of whatever the hell it is he does. Keep in mind she attributes this to his nature, not his discipline or knowledge. He was a relatively young sith lord.

Captain REX
Originally posted by vpokdekjyafmidp
he is a pussy, therefore he probably sucks ass at fighting, therefore making him lose the fight

And you make useless posts, therefore you probably, no, definitely suck at debating, therefore making you a worthless debater. no expression

I say Kun.

Though, Bane didn't seem that inept. He just didn't really perform anything drastically amazing in the Jedi vs. Sith comics, other than that whole 'Sith Joining Power = Wall of Lightning Death Thing' and surviving the Thought Bomb.

Wesker
I imagine in saber combat he's probably pretty good. He was all huge and had that symbiotic armor at the end. And he was a veteran of those wars.

Captain REX
Indeed. Where do you figure he ranks?

Wesker
In saber combat? Hm. This is a tenative ranking, but I'd stuff him right above Malak and Dooku. I mean, anyone who was in that war knows how to swing their glowstick.

Captain REX
I swung a glowstick, once. Raves are pretty neat. no expression

Wesker
OMFG... Rex noes teh Makaschu!

Illustrious
Run for the hills. Rex may be able to contend with NJO Luke, it depends on how good of a glowstick he has!!!11

Veneficus
I used to play with wooden swords in my room... untill I smashed celieng light stick out tongue

Wesker
Damn, I shattered the ceiling light with one of mine, but it wasn't wooden.

Darth_Glentract
Yeah, I've busted a few things sword fighting. Never with a glowstick though...

Numan
But most 1 on 1 battles usually end up with a saber duel. that is how Exar fought Bass. That is how Exar fought Ulic. I bet a saber could probably block a blast from Kun's amulet. And Bane seemed by far the best in jedi versus sith I mean everybody was completely terrified of him. plus his armour was able to block a saber. I think Bane has this.

Fishy
Well there is no real evidence for any of that, perhaps he would be more powerful perhaps he isn't. But there is nothing except for speculation that would make him more powerful, so really he isn't until you can prove otherwise. Which you can't.

And the blocking the blast with a lightsaber thing? Possible, but highly unlikely.

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