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He gets 30 seconds in between each fight.

1) Yoda and Mace Windu.
2) Darth Bane and Lord Kaan.
3) Thon, Odun-Urr, Arca Jeth and Vodo-Siosk Bass.
4) Ulic Quel-Droma, Aleema and Exar Kun.
5) Freedon Nadd and Ludo Kressh.
6) Naga Sadow and Lord Simus (full body Simus).
7) DN Luke and DN Kyp Durron.
8) Darth Revan, Darth traya and The jedi exile.
9) 20 Taranteks and 5 fully grown Leviathans + 1 mutated rancor.
10) Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus.

All fights take place in temple training room apart from #9 which takes place in an open field in Ruusan.

I'm not even going to read this, just look at 10.. How can he win? Nihilus eats the force.

And how the hell should we know and or be able to place a guess on this? Not to mention that the list is completely off.

We know nothing about Simus, especially as a full bodied sith. I would like to say he gets stopped by DN Luke and Kyp but realistically he would take it all the way..

Well if Ragnos is as powerful as you guys say he is, surely he would have an artifact or power that would work as an instant kill just like Nihilus' force consumation. Surely then whoever uses their ability first would win. You guys go on about how Kun's amulet blast is unstoppable and what not so surely by your logic Kun would be able to beat Nihilus (if he uses his ability first).

No, Nihilus EATS the force, he literally DESTROYS it... No force attack could stop that...

Look I can see that English is not your first language but at least try and comprehend what I am saying. I am not saying that Ragnos stops Nihilus' attack. he just performs his own attack first and if his sith magics are as powerful as you say, he should be able to instantly kill him.

Nihilus would still eat the attack...

What if Ragnos' attack hits him before he senses it?

What if..

How do we know thats even possible? Even if he would, we have no idea what the attack would really do. Perhaps it would break Nihilus kill him completely or perhaps he would just absorb the attack... In huge what if situations giving great advantages to others Nihilus might die, or he might not because we have no idea how others would match against him in a real fight, or what there attacks would do.

Could Darth Traya instant kill Ragnos? Does anyone know how that power works. Fishy, I remember you said that you didn't think she could do it whenever she wanted to, care to explain?

Some people go on about how powerful a blast from Kun's amulet is, so could that instant kill Nihilus. because if so, kun has a shot against Nihilus.

He dies at 9.

Originally posted by kamikz
Could Darth Traya instant kill Ragnos? Does anyone know how that power works. Fishy, I remember you said that you didn't think she could do it whenever she wanted to, care to explain?

The theory is that Kreia used the Exile to channel the attack...

The corpses of the councillors are described as being without the force or something. Kreia herself was attacked by Nihilus and it stands to reason that she like the Sith assassins serving Nihilus and Sion would be able to drain the force from people, like Nihilus only in a much much smaller way. Not in a way big enough to cause the death of three of the greatest Jedi Masters of the era.

Perhaps the wound in her is greater then she has told us or we have seen. Unlikely though, I mean Atris would probably have noticed it, if not the other Jedi likely would have when she was on the planet, of course perhaps they misunderstood the entire situation and thought it was the Exile, i'm not sure on that... It just seems somewhat strange that they didn't notice if that was the case. But seeing as there is nothing to suggest that her hole is great enough to do what the Exile and Nihilus do the more logical conclusion would be that she used the Exile to power her attack.

Her bond with him allowed her to power him and to use his force powers for her own, it would not be far fetched for her to use the Exile his power to destroy the Jedi Masters with one swift attack. I'm not really sure on this, but I believe that she needed the exile to do the attack, or Nihilus. Another powerful wound in the force.



Two things

1.) It can be doubted that Kun his attack would even destroy a powerful Jedi Master with one shot

2.) Its very likely that Nihilus would just eat the attack as it comes towards him, because the attack is still part of the force, and Nihilus eats the force.

Nihilus eats the force but it doesn't happen automatically. He has to use it. It is an active ability. If he is caught offguard then surely he wouldn't be able to use it in time. Or even if he is prepared and ready but his opponent is just quicker to attack.

There is no evidence for that. The council describes they feel the power in the Exile just as he walks by, they feel he eats the force. The assassins serving Sion all have a wound in the force, far smaller then Nihilus though. They have this to weaken there enemy's when they are near.

And this isn't against an unprepared Nihillus, this is against Nihilus. In which case Nihilus would just eat them, and I doubt anybody would jump into an erea just shoot and hope to him... Thats not going to happen, besides if the enemy fights like that then Nihilus could have done it as well. The reason the Exile got to him on his ship, was because Nihilus was focused on Telos he wanted to eat that planet, he didn't even care about the Exile. In another fight however he probably would have.

When I made the point about catching Nihilus offguard, I wasn't using it for this duel but just to show that Nihilus is not invicible. But even in this fight when they are both prepared, Ragnos could just attack before him and if what you say about him is true, he would be able to instantly kill Nihilus.

Originally posted by Fishy
There is no evidence for that.

I have more evidence in this case then you do when you go on about how powerful Ragnos is, but lets not even get into that. the truth is there is plent of evidence and it is plain obvious. In that cutscen where he attacks Sion, he has to raise his hand to do so, and many people have said that he was force consuming him to a certain extent. this shows that it is not automatic.

Originally posted by Numan
I have more evidence in this case then you do when you go on about how powerful Ragnos is, but lets not even get into that. the truth is there is plent of evidence and it is plain obvious. In that cutscen where he attacks Sion, he has to raise his hand to do so, and many people have said that he was force consuming him to a certain extent. this shows that it is not automatic.

Perhaps not in a great enough scale no, but even then doesn't mean that he wasn't always doing it lik the assassins were... Also we don't know how long it would take to eat, perhaps he can just do it, doesn't require anything just him wishing to do it. And that is the most likely case. Still Nihilus can sense people in the force and there is no way a power like Ragnos would come close to him, Ragnos would be a great meal for him, he'd take it in a second.

You do know that force user can cloak themselves in the force.

They would still be part of the force... And we don't know if Ragnos could do that, or would in a fight. Look this is a useless debate, we don't know if Nihilus could die or not, we don't know if he could be hurt by force attacks or not and we sure as hell can't say he was outclassed if he was stabbed in the back by the most powerful of the most powerful when he wasn't looking. And we don't even know if it would help, seriously you have no idea, I have no idea.

This is just useless speculation.

I was just making a point that Nihilus isn't unstopable just because he can instant kill.

he reaches 6 and gets killed, the other ancient siths are no joke either...

Originally posted by Numan
He gets 30 seconds in between each fight.

1) Yoda and Mace Windu.
2) Darth Bane and Lord Kaan.
3) Thon, Odun-Urr, Arca Jeth and Vodo-Siosk Bass.
4) Ulic Quel-Droma, Aleema and Exar Kun.
5) Freedon Nadd and Ludo Kressh.
6) Naga Sadow and Lord Simus (full body Simus).
7) DN Luke and DN Kyp Durron.
8) Darth Revan, Darth traya and The jedi exile.
9) 20 Taranteks and 5 fully grown Leviathans + 1 mutated rancor.
10) Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus.

All fights take place in temple training room apart from #9 which takes place in an open field in Ruusan.

This is the worst lineup I've ever seen. Luke and Kyp over Sadow and Simus? WTF? Do you even know what you're talking about?

There is a deeper meaning in KOTOR II than anyone would understand. IF you think about it deeply enough, the exile is Nihilus' counterpart. They both are have the same ability, one is a superhero one is a villain. It is VERY logical to assume The Exile eats the force just as well, he just doesn't know how.

He stumbles on his ability if he goes dark. Nihilus, however, isn't really even human. The game seems to imply that he is partly of the Exile. The biggest clencher is that he dissolves after the battle into sparks of energy.

DN Luke is likely to be better than either Naga Sadow or Simus (before his duel with Ragnos) and I wanted to pair him up with the other best force user of the NJO.

This may be true but it's unlikely that he and DN Kyle could take Ragnos.

Originally posted by Numan
DN Luke is likely to be better than either Naga Sadow or Simus (before his duel with Ragnos) and I wanted to pair him up with the other best force user of the NJO.

I really don't think that's the case at all. I doubt that Luke can do the sickeningly amazing mass illusion/battle meditation Sadow pulled off, or create amulets that let people blow holes in temple walls with ease, or even survive as a head for over a hundred years. Luke doesn't compare to the ancient sith.

Perhaps perhaps not.

Originally posted by Wesker
I really don't think that's the case at all. I doubt that Luke can do the sickeningly amazing mass illusion/battle meditation Sadow pulled off, or create amulets that let people blow holes in temple walls with ease, or even survive as a head for over a hundred years. Luke doesn't compare to the ancient sith.

Aleema was able to create illusuions as good as those you fanboy. And wow he can create amulets. That only shows that Naga Sadow was a great alchemist.

Well, people are putting Luke up against centuries old sith who made their names by killing and backstabbing one another for quite some length of time. Their base of knowledge is the foundation upon which later sith lords became powerful. Just acquiring a -few- of their artifacts and trinkets can make a force user godly powerful. Luke isn't anywhere on that level, regardless of him absorbing a force push or swinging like he is a ceiling fan.

lol, but this is DN Luke not the tool Luke.

Originally posted by Numan
Aleema was able to create illusuions as good as those you fanboy. And wow he can create amulets. That only shows that Naga Sadow was a great alchemist.
It's shown specifically that she was able to create minor illusions, and with help. Sadow micromanaged thousands of Massassi warriors while generating and manipulating nine times that number while attacking three different planets.

And the point about the amulets is that the ancient sith have knowledge of the force far in excess of Luke "I inherited the jedi cuz they's all dead" Skywalker.

DN Luke has shown power beyond those of the ancient sith you fanboy.

EDIT

Originally posted by Numan
DN Luke has shown power beyond those of the ancient sith you fanboy.

No, he hasn't.

Originally posted by Numan
DN Luke has shown power beyond those of the ancient sith you fanboy.

Yes, let's suffix each post with "you fanboy" because you don't have anything else to say.

What did Luke demonstrate that is far and away greater than the Ancient Sith?

Naga Sadow's illusion/battle meditation was absolutely the single most sickening feat I've seen yet. He was able to simultaneously animate a massive fleet of thousands of ships, each dropping pods and then creating tangible illusions that even the JEDI at Coruscant could not stop or tell the difference.

He singlehandedly nearly took three planets while he was casually dreaming up "invincible" armies in his meditation sphere. Yeah, these are armies that broke through the lines on Cinnagar, was about to capture the Republic capital of Coruscant (how often does that happen?) and made Empress Teta practically shit in her pants. What exactly has Luke done to compare?

Naga Sadow is a great alchemist. Okay, and that's a knock against him how? Because Sith Alchemy and Sith Magic don't apply in a duel right? Is that why Aleema tried to take out Kun with Sith Magic, yet Kun WTFpwned her with more Sith Magic?

And guess who are the masters of Sith Magic? Yep, that's right, Lord Simus and Naga Sadow. Way to set yourself up for that.

Last I checked, those amulets can fire blasts, can manipulate people, and those wielders have shown the ability to decimate buildings, statues, giant structures with apparent ease. Ludo Kressh anyone? He easily shatters a Sith Sword and crushes giant statues with a wave of his arm/hand.

It's funny how you decide to just ignore feats because "zOMG they are alchemy."

If I wanted to bring up real alchemy, I'd talk about how Sadow tinkered with his Massassi, or that he created sith creatures of incredible strength and lifespan, or that he created superweapons like his Ship that weaklings like Aleema could use to blow up stars. And guess who was the stronger Sith Magician of his era? Yep, that's right, Lord Simus.

No, Lord Simus and Naga Sadow are no way no how uber. I mean, denial is just a river in Egypt, after all.

Damn. IllustriPwn3d.

Agreed.

pwned

Ragnos dies at 9, omg, how can someone take down 20 Taranteks and 5 fully grown Leviathans + 1 mutated rancor, thats just like um impossible? i mean Jedi Masters fall to Taranteks, adding a leviathan and a mutated rancor, thats like telling ragnos to die..unless Ragnos posseses some uber sith techinque, and even if he gets thro he dies at Nihilus, unless as well he has a defence against it

Originally posted by Illustrious
Yes, let's suffix each post with "you fanboy" because you don't have anything else to say.

What did Luke demonstrate that is far and away greater than the Ancient Sith?

Naga Sadow's illusion/battle meditation was absolutely the single most sickening feat I've seen yet. He was able to simultaneously animate a massive fleet of thousands of ships, each dropping pods and then creating tangible illusions that even the JEDI at Coruscant could not stop or tell the difference.

He singlehandedly nearly took three planets while he was casually dreaming up "invincible" armies in his meditation sphere. Yeah, these are armies that broke through the lines on Cinnagar, was about to capture the Republic capital of Coruscant (how often does that happen?) and made Empress Teta practically shit in her pants. What exactly has Luke done to compare?

Naga Sadow is a great alchemist. Okay, and that's a knock against him how? Because Sith Alchemy and Sith Magic don't apply in a duel right? Is that why Aleema tried to take out Kun with Sith Magic, yet Kun WTFpwned her with more Sith Magic?

And guess who are the masters of Sith Magic? Yep, that's right, Lord Simus and Naga Sadow. Way to set yourself up for that.

Last I checked, those amulets can fire blasts, can manipulate people, and those wielders have shown the ability to decimate buildings, statues, giant structures with apparent ease. Ludo Kressh anyone? He easily shatters a Sith Sword and crushes giant statues with a wave of his arm/hand.

It's funny how you decide to just ignore feats because "zOMG they are alchemy."

If I wanted to bring up real alchemy, I'd talk about how Sadow tinkered with his Massassi, or that he created sith creatures of incredible strength and lifespan, or that he created superweapons like his Ship that weaklings like Aleema could use to blow up stars. And guess who was the stronger Sith Magician of his era? Yep, that's right, Lord Simus.

No, Lord Simus and Naga Sadow are no way no how uber. I mean, denial is just a river in Egypt, after all.

Yes but most of these would not help him in a one on one battle. Almost all 1 on 1 battles go down to a melee duel. This is evident throughout the TOTJ comics, the movies etc. If his force powers were so amazing, then why did he not use them against Ludo? Why did Exar Kun not use them against Vodo?

Numan, consider this, just because he didnt use them again doesnt mean he cant..
the reason is that it would look stupid if the writers consistently used to same power for the same character, as an example, DE Sidious never replicated his force storm again, does that mean he cant?

Absence of Proof is not Proof of Absence;
- We never saw Kun grow up...does that mean he didnt grow up? As in from child to adult
- We never saw Kun going to the toliet does that mean he didnt?
- We never saw Kun using a force push, does it mean he didnt?
- We never saw Kun best Jar Jar does it mean he cant?

No, you cannot say because, he didnt do it again, means he cant, its simple, i can say that with every character, if they only did something once, it doesnt count.

We did see Kun force push.