Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Battle takes place on Mustafasar.

Dooku, the confirmed actions of the Exile are slim to say the least and nothing really impressive with that... Especially if he's lightside in which case he has done jack shit...

But he did defeat both Nihilus, Traya and Sion in lightsaber combat, and with the stolen power he had from them and other force users he would be pretty powerful.

Hell, some people make arguments that Exile > Revan.

Some people have no evidence

Kamikz yes he beat Nihilus, which means nothing as Nihilus was heavily weakened after he tried to drain the Exile. Also its very possible that Visas sacrifised her live to weaken Nihilus even further and then it would have just taken one single stab from a lightsaber and he would be dead.

Sion died because his will was broken, that again means nothing in his lightsaber mastery, the entire fight between him and Sion was a gameplay fight, he could have been better or worse then Sion we don't know so that doesn't mean a lot either.

The fight against Kreia, wasn't real. Kreia wasn't trying her best, there is just no way she was trying to kill him in that fight. Kreia would have died for him, she could have killed him because of there force bond, she could have ended his live in any given moment yet in the end she doesn't do it, if she wanted the Exile dead he would have been. She didn't want him to die.

The borrowed powers, well I can't be sure he kept them after he defeated Nihilus as he once again became whole, he likely still had the techniques he had before, but not the power he had. Or perhaps it was augmented still because of Kreia... Even so we don't know how much power the Exile had drained and if he was lightside he has zero confirmed kills. And zero fights in which he would have given it his all. 0, none, nada... Throughout all of Kotor II all he might have done is lead an attack on Onderon.

That wouldn't put him above Dooku in anyway, if the Exile is Dark Side however a lot of things change and he might actually win this fight, as a Lightsider however (who doesn't have his friends near him) i'm giving it to Dooku.

Sounds like the count would win this fight after the way Fishy said it.

Yeah,Dooku wins it.

I am a total cock-dog.

I have to disagree with you Fishy.

The Jedi Exile did weaken Nihilus due to his nature, but he stood toe to toe in battle against him.

Afterwards he fought Sion. Sure Sion died from his eroded will , but he was defeated multiple times by the Exile, as is shown by how he absorbed the energy from Malachor in order to replenish himself.

About Kreia not putting her all, how can you be sure of that? If she was not putting her all into it, woudn't it be more logical that she refused to fight him in the first place? The Exile DID defeat her, and it's just speculation, not actual fact that she did not try her hardest...

He survived the mass shadow generator where every other Jedi/Republic soldier died, and he was a warrior-general in the Mandalorian wars. He has seen more combat than Dooku has.

I'm going with the Exile.

Originally posted by zephiel7
I have to disagree with you Fishy.

The Jedi Exile did weaken Nihilus due to his nature, but he stood toe to toe in battle against him.

Is that so? Visas could have killed herself or weakened herself to weaken him. In fact that is what she suggest throughout all of the game.. Its a logical thing to do, and could very well have happened. Meaning that you would have one heavily weakened Nihilus. Also perhaps Nihilus was as weak as a weak Padawan after he tried to drain the Exile so the fight even if Visas didn't sacrifise herself means nothing.

But for the moment we must assume the worst for the Exile, because we have no prove either way and overrating a character isn't really a good thing.



We have no real idea on how the two compared, perhaps he just managed to use a force attack against an overconfident Sion that wasn't defending himself and managed to snuck in a lucky strike... Really this fight is largly an unknown, and perhaps and that is actually far more likely the Exile and Sion talked while they were fighting and the Exile convinced Sion during the fight.



She could have killed him in a heartbeat, you know there force bond she could have used it to end his live, she would have done it if he didn't come to her, but he did and she didn't. Then they fought and again she refused to use her force bond to destroy him even as she lay there to die. She had no reason for this.

Also she shows far superior powers to the Exile all the time, but then in the final fight uses none of these techniques, she does fight him with a lightsaber, and then after she is beaten fights him with the force. Why not both at the same time? She wasn't trying her hardest.



Many people survived the Mass shadow generator, he was also a fleet commander and he may have been a front line general and as such he would have faced Mandelorians, but how much? In how many battles, and how important was he in those battles? We have nothing on him to even place a guess about those things. He's to much of an unknown.

Originally posted by Fishy
Is that so? Visas could have killed herself or weakened herself to weaken him. In fact that is what she suggest throughout all of the game.. Its a logical thing to do, and could very well have happened. Meaning that you would have one heavily weakened Nihilus. Also perhaps Nihilus was as weak as a weak Padawan after he tried to drain the Exile so the fight even if Visas didn't sacrifise herself means nothing.

But for the moment we must assume the worst for the Exile, because we have no prove either way and overrating a character isn't really a good thing.



We have no real idea on how the two compared, perhaps he just managed to use a force attack against an overconfident Sion that wasn't defending himself and managed to snuck in a lucky strike... Really this fight is largly an unknown, and perhaps and that is actually far more likely the Exile and Sion talked while they were fighting and the Exile convinced Sion during the fight.



She could have killed him in a heartbeat, you know there force bond she could have used it to end his live, she would have done it if he didn't come to her, but he did and she didn't. Then they fought and again she refused to use her force bond to destroy him even as she lay there to die. She had no reason for this.

Also she shows far superior powers to the Exile all the time, but then in the final fight uses none of these techniques, she does fight him with a lightsaber, and then after she is beaten fights him with the force. Why not both at the same time? She wasn't trying her hardest.



Many people survived the Mass shadow generator, he was also a fleet commander and he may have been a front line general and as such he would have faced Mandelorians, but how much? In how many battles, and how important was he in those battles? We have nothing on him to even place a guess about those things. He's to much of an unknown.

1. If the Exile stays on the lightside he does not let Visas risk her life, and since she always listens to him she would have obeyed. During the fight, all she said was, "he is to strong", so I bet he wasen't as weak as a padawan, and the Exile replied, "stay with me Visas". (Or most likley if he is lightside which is the canon ending I think).

2. Then I'm going to say the same thing as you did to Visas, all Sion ever talked about in the game was that he could never die and could rise after he was beaten down a hundred times, so that's most likley what happend. (Not hundred times but many times).
Seriousley though, Sion replied before he did, "what makes you able to defeat me here?".

3. There could have been that she did not want to die herself, and when she was dying she found it unnecessary to kill him too. And I have never seen Kreia being able to control the bond anyway, I thought she said that when they were in battle their minds sharpened and the bond didn't affect them.
Also, just because she used 3 levetating lightsabers during the second fight doesen't mean she only used the force then. With this, I can argue that Malak only used a saber in the first game and therefore faked against Revan.
And she did say that she would break him, mabey she didn't give it all, mabey she did, but she did fight him and to me she seemed to be fighting pretty tough.

Got to go in a few minutes, i'll reply to the rest later but about point 3.

Kreia has manipulated the bond the entire time, the exile started feeling the force again because of her, the exile learned beast control because of her, on Nar Shaddaa he learned to feel the force because of her, on Peragus she loses her hand and he feels it, every force power you cast on the Exile or on Kreia gets duplicated to the other. What happened to one happened to the other, Kreia makes this very clear.

If she would have killed herself the Exile would have been dead.

Then when she died, why didn't he?

Originally posted by Guy LeDouche
Then when she died, why didn't he?

Arg! I hate that sig! It's so stupid looking!

Good contribution, Veneficus. Oh, wait, no one cares...

I'll hand this to Dooku.

I admit that the Nihilus battle is filled with variables and whatnot, but lets look at the canonical party at the time.

Mandalore- Great fighter, but no offense Mandy, you weren't that useful against Nihilus.

Visas: Ok, its possible to sacrifice her, and that may very well be the case if the canonical exile is actually a sith. However that still does not eliminate the alternate possibility.

EDIT: Even in the dark sided case, the Exile is just as strong as in the lightsided version, except he is more ruthless and thus sacrifices Visas. He would still win in a straight out duel against Nihilus.

The alternate possibility places the Exile as a lightsider. In this case, Visas is not much use in the fight because she is not really reputed as a great Jedi. Therefore, one of the alternate paths renders Nihilus defeated largely due to the Exile.



I dont think the Exile would have snuck in and stabbed Sion in the back. Sion seems to recognize you even if you are in stealth. Also Sion remarks in frustration why the Exile seems to be stronger after the fourth time you beat him. This is proof that the Exile defeated Sion multiple times.



What reason had she for fighting him in the first place then? Also, as the Exile killed Kreia, why didn't he die in the process. The reason why is because the Exile had just as much control over the force bond as Kreia did. Exile is the superiour between the two, that's where the evidence is pointing at.

Regarding Sion's line, that's a result of gameplay, and void.

It was said by Sion. It had to have been said because Sion doesn't die before he says that line. Afterwards you can prolong or end the fight as much as you want.

EDIT: Actually I am not too sure about this. I will check on KOTOR 2 and come back with a sure response :P

It is a result of gameplay, I'm sure. You could fight and lose miserably.

Originally posted by Fishy
Got to go in a few minutes, i'll reply to the rest later but about point 3.

Kreia has manipulated the bond the entire time, the exile started feeling the force again because of her, the exile learned beast control because of her, on Nar Shaddaa he learned to feel the force because of her, on Peragus she loses her hand and he feels it, every force power you cast on the Exile or on Kreia gets duplicated to the other. What happened to one happened to the other, Kreia makes this very clear.

If she would have killed herself the Exile would have been dead.

Ok sure, cya.

Yes she has taught him, but mabey this was considered the last test or mabey she used the Exile to kill Nihilus and Sion and stuff. But Kreia also said that when their minds where sharpened ( in battle) they would not effect eachother if they got hurt, so this ight be the case.

No, she said she could stop them from being hurt. At the end Kreia refused to le the bond work, she used her last energy to make sure the Exile wouldn't die but she would. To quote Kotor2.com



The first part... She is willing to die for him, always had been. Besides just days earlier she knocks the Exile out in a second but then later on she can't even hurt him with the force? Hightly unlikely.



What I mean is that perhaps during the fight he managed to get a lucky hit, Like Luke against Vader in ESB, may be he wasn't really superior to Sion at all. The fight is all gameplay so its kinda hard to say how it really happened.


This is not necessarily true, just because the exile is a Jedi doesn't mean he wouldn't sacrifise people for the greater good, he did so on Malachor V and he was still a Jedi back then. Fact of the matter is we don't know if Visas sacrifised herself or not and we don't know how powerful Nihilus was, he could be weak as hell really.

Kreia did mention though in the end of KOTOR 2 that the Exile was the strongest student she ever trained. This would put the Exile over Sion and Nihilus when it comes down to force strength and saber skills.

The subject over whether Traya was trying her hardest or not is purely speculative. The proof points in the direction that the Exile was her superiour, since he beat her.